mini 943- Greek Mythology! (And the winner is... ?)

[Plum]

/confirm

[Plum]

Vote: Shadow Dancer

for bolding your confirm.

[Plum]

Early read is Mindgamer -town (unless someone has meta on him which would indicate he's not very cautious, if at all, as scum).

I don't personally get a ring of scumminess/untruthiness/whatever with Green's first vote. That;s not reflective of Iec because that was before he got his Role PM; I also disagree that Jo was trying to frame his actions at scummy with the 34/36 thing. Read it as just trying to prod for any info that could be gotten in this stage.

[Plum]

Honestly, there wasn't that much I felt warranted commenting on in my previous post. Do you want me to try to lay out exactly why I think that Iec's opinion that GiD was lying about his reason for his random vote isn't correct? It simply doesn't read that way to me; and in that case, all the argument about why it would be scummy to do such a thing is theory discussion I don't find useful to the situation at hand.

It's clear, as it was two days ago. that SD's dice vote was not alignment-indicative.

Put simply, SV, I didn't see anything conclusively scummy and nothing had yet pinged my scumdar. Sorry to disappoint you (and by the way, don't think we've played, so since when have you been stalking me ?).

Although, looking back, my question ought to have been at you, SV - I agree that lying is inherently anti-Town, but GiD never admitted to lying about his reason for his random vote; he denied it while trying to understand Iec's logic for saying he did.

I'm confused by what you mean by effective writing. I get what you mean, that you think I voted for wagon A over B for reason X, but I give the reason Y, ie.

I give a different reason than what the real reason was.

I'm confused over the definition you are giving to Y and X.

Lying is inherently anti-town.

Why would you lie to us?

You used selective bolding there to insinuate that GiD admitted to lying. He didn't, as should be clear; in that post he was trying to confirm Iec's thought process.

Unvote; Vote: Shattered Viewpoint

.

Hm, and other people noticed it , too. Wonder why they didn't find it as scummy as I feel it is.

Vas, if you thought SD looked like predictable scum, why did you unvote and leave your vote on no one while saying that one more predictable thing from SD would've earned your vote? Who was your top suspect at the time? Nevermind, this got covered. Still. Odd.

Joh, I didn't have a suspect but ought to have noticed SV's misrep at that time. Taking another whole skim of the game, yeah. Otherwise there wasn't anything that bothered me, so I gave what I could.

Early read is Mindgamer -town (unless someone has meta on him which would indicate he's not very cautious, if at all, as scum).

I don't get having a town read at all at this stage, but where the heck in MG's

two

posts did you get a town read? How has he been "not cautious"?

He openly said he was Town-aligned. I know that it's WIFOMy - really, I do - but the way my gut read that WIFOM is that scum would be more cautious about doing that the way he did. It's an early-game read, but I think it's a legitimate thought.

I;m trying to go through the cogs of the long Jack/Iec(/Joh) debate about SD but I'm getting like nothing useful out of it.

Hey, SV, why no vote? You've not voted all game. If you're in a slight snit about me, what's keeping you from voting? And yeah, as Iec said, your argument that I'm lurking and not contributing is awfully, awfully hypocritical. You confirm, you misrep GiD to try to imply that he admitted to lying

but don't vote him

and then you pick me out, make some accusations

and don't vote me

. . . yeah.

[Plum]

Regarding "TWENTY" versus 12, I don't suppose any of you have heard of hyperbole? No? Hadn't thought so.

@Plum: I am very careful with my vote. I don't believe that it should be thrown around willy-nilly; when I have a serious place to place it, you will see it.

You basically accused GiD of outright lying. If that's not enough for a vote . . . yar. Even if it's not traditional for you, what's the harm in voting your top suspect now? Who is your top suspect? Could you make it clearer and clarify this when it changes, if you're really not into voting? And, yeah, not quite buying your hyperbole explanation there either.

Iec - The second question does look a bit ugh, so I guess I see your point there; I still don't see the first question as suspicious; my first reaction to it was that he was trying to see if there was anything useful about GiD/SD which prompted the vote change, not try to see whether your change made you scummy. Is there something else I'm missing here?

[Plum]

Votes on Shattered are as bad as votes on Shadow. Plum did both. Hmm.

Did you note that my vote on SD was an RVS vote - in fact, the first vote of the game? No. Did you comment on my multiple reasons for voting SV? No, just dismissed it by calling it 'weak reasoning'. Those are, as far as can be discerned, the only reasons for you to be voting me except that you think all the votes on SV are conveniently timed for me. Please explain the last, thanks. Because unless you think that all the votes were so weakly reasoned that their purpose had to have been to protect hypothetical scum-Plum . . . yeah.

@Joh

- I don't recall having played with SV before. Perhaps he's stalking me, dunno, but I've got no idea what's in his mind here.

[Plum]

V/LA until Wednesday night.

Vote Count

Shadow Dancer- Jack, VasudeVa, greenindirt (L-4)
VasudeVa- Bio Hazard (L-6)
Plum- Johoohno, Flava Flave (L-5)
Iecerint- Snow_Bunny (L-6)
Shattered Viewpoints- Plum, Iecerint, Mindgamer, Shadow Dancer (L-3)

~Searching for a replacement for Bio Hazzard.~

With 12 alive, its 7 to lynch.

[Plum]

Passover catchup 1.0:

So, Flava Flave, if the convenience thing was something I did, can you explain what it was? Compare the convenience to SV's hypocritical attacks on me, please.

Joh. If it makes you feel better, I'll give you my meta. As far as I can tell, if you're really interested in what prompted SV to say he knew that I played however he thinks I play and evaluate it against his stance on me, you'd really want to be asking him to supply some links and analysis. But. Ask and you shall receive, now that the site decided to work again:

Replaced in as scum.
Town here.
Town here, too.
Scum here.

He might have seen me play here. Or he might have been pulling something out of his rear. It's anyone's guess, really.

And Joh, you say you agree with Flava's case against me. The case is as follows:

Plum voted SD and voted SV with convenient timing.

The SD vote was an RVS vote, the first vote of the game. The SV vote I explained. Flave didn't explain the convenience or what's scummy about it, and you don't very well. In fact, the SV vote, which is what appears to be the crux of Flave's case, is based on reasoning which you appear to agree with - that SV made GiD out to have admitted to lying when he hadn't. So I'm scummy for a case based on behavior which you agree is odd. Riddle me that, why don't you? Also you throw lots of suspicion around but are voting me for refusing to give my meta you called for 'so many times'? Give me a break. At best, you politely suggested one single time that I might 'feel free' to show something of my meta.

Jack, I'd suggest leaving pairing speculation off the table Day 1; it's really mostly a distraction until we see at least one flip.

I agree to the basic point of VV taking some opportunistic pokes at SD and then ignoring everything that's followed up there. I might chalk up the rolefishy goodness to a moment of stupidity (hey, we all have them) except that

I mean, it happened before the game started so it won't say much about alignment. And also it won't indicate any alignment since it is a vote regardless of alignment, it will give us an idea of what to expect in the days to come.

The thing here is that I really can't see what sort of benefit there would have been to this - he states outright that it's not alignment-indicative. I agree that the SD case is weak and VV ignoring that isn't that great, but it wouldn't bother me as much if he hadn't committed the shady rolefishery stuff and, after pressure was applied, started flailing like a dying squid. His initial reaction to SD was so full of appeals and other slimy stuff, raging about one point in the case where he pushed the hypocrisy line, making the active lurking point of Snowy's into the whole case and then . . . grargh strawmanny stuff ensues into OMGUS backlash into scum pie.

VV, who's your top suspect right now? Who was your top suspect as of Post 222?

With SV, who hasn't showed up again, that makes three excellent suspects, we should all be so lucky. I'd be fairly happy voting any of them, but what I really need is SV to show up and, like SD, help me decide. I like the VV wagon but would like to showcase the excellent darkhorse Joh right now . . .

Vote: Joh

[Plum]

Checking again, Joh, you voted me in the RVS and somewhere along the line it became a serious vote. It'd be nice to know where. I suppose it's my mistake and you politely suggested twice that I might supply you with meta links, but again, the way you phrased it, and the situation (where it seems that even now you're more interested in SV's perspective on my meta than the meta itself) makes it an extremely weak point for a serious vote.

Joh, my measure for OMGUS is whether there's a legitimate reason to suspect someone who suspects you or not. You seem to agree with my overall reason for suspecting SV, or at least one of my main points against him. But you seem to believe that my motivation was scummy - how so? Part of my suspicions included stuff I hadn't noticed before but should have, and part of it had to do with the hypocritical nature of SV's points against me, both of which I'd consider legitimate scumtells even had they not been directed at me. I found the meta point scummy mostly because he insinuated that he had firsthand/close experience with me on which he based his attack, and I'm nigh certain I've never played with him. The fact that he tried to bring up my meta was not the animating spark against him; it was mostly some stuff found in areread of the game I needed and the hypocrisy of his accusations that I was lurking/not contributing.

Your obsession with my meta, voting me for it and whatnot as I explained above and yet still not evaluating it after I've given it to you - did you even want it in the first place, then?

Iec: My memory does fail me; I'd completely forgotten that you were in Twilight Mafia. I try to be active and sometimes fail; I try for competence and usually succeed. If anyone feels that my activity level in the early game is especially scummy we can discuss it.

Quick summary of Joh's scumminess: Is voting me for not providing meta when the calls for it was phrased as polite semi-suggestions and SV's take on the whole thing seemed to be both more appropriate and what he really wanted; he's not done anything with what I've provided. Reads like an ultimately unhelpful attempt to appear more productive. Misreppy of Ooba's catchup post as all about SV (it's not) while sort of agreeing with the main point Ooba brings against SV. He sort of explained how he could agree with the case on me (based on my SV vote) and agree that what SV did was shady, but see my response above.

he only person who finds Flava's play thus far suspicious? His active lurking into a defense of SV and back into active lurking, apparently without devoting the time to notice SV's attempt to make it look like greenindirt was lying is really suspicious to me.

Yeah that too (his posts tended towards dandelion fluff). But now Joh's going to say all I can do is OMGUS.

[Plum]

V/LA till Tuesday night; Passover.

[Plum]

Snowy: VV is among my top suspects; your overall case with the SD suspicion plus his reactions thereto (flail flail, and also - what's with saying over and over again that he dislikes 'I'm still here' posts and making one himself?). The meta read change is weird but really it's not on my list of bothersome things. It's certainly plausible if he's Town, given his extensive analysis, and it's possible he did all that analysis to give credibility to his backtracking as scum, but this isn't the sort of WIFOM I can read into properly. Going further, I'll put this here: Iec thinks this is the richest bit of VV's play to analyze, but my memory is making me think that one man's treasure is another gal's trash. I'll look into it if I have the time.

I still dislike Joh and need to get a feel for all the replacements.

Joh, I dunno if you're intentionally misrepping me, but Post 55 marks one player as Town and disagrees with reasoning for scumhood on two others. That does not imply a Town read, only that I disagreed that they'd expressed scumtells to that point.

I'd like you to comment on my meta or something, seeing as you can't let go of the discussion about me giving it to you - Edit because going through this I see you haven;t found anything. Apparently it's not your weapon of choice. Well, if I was right about my vieew of my meta being useless to you because what you wanted was SV's viewpoint and he's gone, why the hack do you consider that a scumtell? If it was important, you'd at least look at it. Most of this stuff we've already hashed out a lot. I still suspect you and apparently you still suspect me. If you have some new questions on old stuff or if someone else wants to, we can go back to it, but I have a feeling nothing much more will come of it as it stands now.

I have other suspects too, but others have been at them and gotten answers or responses out of them together with the questions I asked when necessary to me.

Do you mean to imply I haven't answered your questions? Do you have anything you want me to answer which I haven't?

Let's see if I can remember this. I think you were voting Shadow (popular wagon) and then Shattered (other popular wagon) started to suspect you and you found something scummy about Shattered shortly after and switched your vote.

I think we've already gone over the fact that my SD vote was firmly RVS business and I'll tell you that I generally don't unvote my random vote until I have a real (even if slight) suspect. Second, I was the first to vote Shattered. The rest is strictly factual. Does the difference make any difference in your suspicions of me? Is it inherently scummy to vote or suspect someone who's voting or suspcting you? Is OMGUS bad in and of itself? I want answers, please; this isn't meant to be rhetorical.

And yeah, dangit, why

is

Shattered so Town?

Joh's case against Ooba is crud. If you read the post it's blindingly obvious that Ooba wasn't focusing only on SV and that he commented plenty on others and that he SV was his top suspect for an explained reason. There are plenty of bits which could link him to others; saying he didn't want to talk about anyone else for that reason is also grrrarrrgh my brain is melting.

So, you’re setting up a softclaim already? Whether you are scum or town, you waste no time setting that up. Why’d you feel the need to go ahead and do that?

What the heck? If you see a breadcrumb at any time, keep it to yourself. But I don't think that's what you're getting at here because what the heck were you trying to say?

Personally, this whole mess over the Iecerint having not received his PM yet is a bother. Would it have been that hard to not post for a day or so? Its resemblant of purposefully not reading your role PM so that you don’t act scummy.

Not really. In any case, not reading your Role PM is obviously not alignment-indicatie, so why comment?

I think you see softclaims because you're on MOONBEAMS.

Every single thing in your post, Andrius, suggests possible scum motivation without the semblance of analysis. Sure, thing A could have a scum motive, but it could have another hundred scum motives and another 150 town motives; you're just insinuating stuff that comes into your head without qualifying it and labeling it scummy. Except you're not labeling it scummy because you prefer to sling mud around on everyone and not point to someone you find dirtiest. The whole thing is making my skin crawl just reading it.

Plum sure did a fine job of showing up once his name was called; within an hour and a half. ISO-ing him, he usually isn’t on in the AM, so it was interesting.

That post was in the PM, actually. I usually get home at 6:30 but Fridays I get home earlier. You're really making little sense saying it was in the AM. I ought to check whether your above mudslinging was also full of fallacious claimage.

@Andrius: I don't like how you, after reading the game twice and bringing up some good points, aren't taking a stance. Seems like bench-sitting.[/qiote]

QFT

Unvote: Vote: Andrius

[Plum]

Here's what I think of your claim. First, mod given fake claim is a possibility. Second, I dislike the idea of vigilantes in general. Third, You'll probably waste a vig on me if you survive, so I won't be unvoting k.

No. Lynching claimed Vig Day 1 is usually a bad idea. I'm not seeing any exception here. Anyway, I dislike the reaction to the claim here, smells of self-preservation only. One is of course a given, but it's not a good argument absent other evidence that this is in fact a safeclaim. Second is not alignment indicative, and Vigs can be very useful. Third reason is self-preservation-above-getting-rid-of-scum motivated, overall. What if Alm is cleared overnight? Then we have a confirmed-Town Vig. That's an oversimplified scenario, but the point remains that lynching a claimed Vig Day 1 , even one who seems quite scummy (and absent the claim I'd probably have rather lynched him) is a bad idea, and I've thought so ever since it actually happened in Mafia Dodgeball, which I modded.

Given that, the unstoppable kill thing (while I disagree with Jack that it's scum-indicative, because a Vig who could get through, say, a Godfather's kill-immunity would obviously be a useful Town power) makes Alm more dangerous. If I could have my cake and eat it too, I'd lynch Andrius today and make Alm superkill Vas tonight (or, I guess, vice-versa). Point is he should use up his superkill TONIGHT. But. I'm not sure how to ensure he does.

And that might put everything right back on square one.

Alm, if there's a way to prove you've used the Unstoppa-kill tonight, use it tonight and do so. If not, the best option might be to shoot yourself with it, and at least we'll be able to kill two bird with one stone.

Unvote; Vote: VasudeVa

[Plum]

Dangit dangit dangit.

Claimed Cop > claimed Vig.

Claimed 1-shot Super Vig = can't trust with claimed Cop out.

Unvote; Vote: Almaster

[Plum]

Unvote

until the seismograph stops sputtering.

[Plum]

Yes I want to kill you, Andrius, but there won't be a way to get enough votes on you before deadline as things stand. You're not a viable lynch; it's better in general to have a say in something that's actually viable. It's not hypocritical.

Only town win tokenwise.

Oh? And pray how do you know that?

[Plum]

Ooba wants the hammer y/n?

[Plum]

Ok, but you didn't just "smoke" her, you "exploded" her, to quote the mod's scene.

Of what relevance is this/what do you intend to say? It's obvious that Alm meant he decided to kill Snowy and then did so.

Mafia kill got screwed with or Alm is some sort of scum (SK? actually seems fairly plausible, but I don't know how we'd sort that one out from his claim except time) or both. Considering the many roles, the likelihood of the lack of Mafia kill Night 1 being due to all of that makes the scenario realistic enough that what appears to be a theory disagreement seems to be just that.

Simply put, I can't deduce that Alm is very likely scum out of all of this and am comfortable leaving him alive at this point. I have scummier fish to fry. Andrius and FF (Iec suspicion where? along with other stuff noted Day 1), please, step right up.

Vote: Andrius

[Plum]

So, Plum posted lots yesterday in spite of the question already being out there for all of it. Don't see a point in waiting more.

Explain to me what you mean (what question?) because right now I feel like I;m missing something here.

[Plum]

Hmm. Why Andrius over FF (or LC)?

Sorry; missed that. Yesterday he was doing lots of insinuating scumminess without backing up his logic (well, the way I read it he was pulling a scummy spin off random stuff out of his ass), in any case threw suspicion left and right and didn't take a concrete stance. Today again he does stuff like saying Alm wanted to 'smoke' SB and the actual flavor was that he blew her away. Useless, trivial, gives it a subtle spin that Alm's scummy for it when it's so far beyond null my brain wants to explode. I remember FF as erratic and insinuating things about my positions which I thought were stupid (including repeatedly stating in his reasons for suspecting me that I was on the popular SD wagon when in fact I'd initiated it with the first vote of the game). He seemed to have come around to some of the explanations of this, though, increasing the chances of him being just someone who somehow (bigger somehow than I'm completely comfortable with, honestly) didn't see the situation properly at first at all, which has been known to happen. Andrius has been slimier in comparison.

[Plum]

Iec: Given the claimed information at the time - ah, and Ooba's stuff (confirming that at one point Alm did have a Vig-type ability) - I was more inclined to go after my prior scumreads, especially the ones still being scummy and weird in a counter-constructive manner, namely Andrius. Sorry you didn't like my votepost, I guess; at least I see where you're coming from against me now, though (and unlike some attacks on me this game, I find it at least a reasonable thought process).

Then again, nice (awful) catch by FF about suspecting Iec prior to today. He did state it, but as I recall rather suddenly towards the end of Day 1 with next to no explanation for

why

he found Iec scummy.

Joh: had you, uh, read Iec's claims before post 598, when you still seemed to want to lynch Alm, or what? You don't even acknowledge the claim by Iec that Alm is probably/almost certainly not scum - why not?

Sorry for the lack of posts guys. I have been re-reading the thread and I really don't like Andrius's posts earlier. The scumtells he is attributing to people don't really seem to be scumtells in several cases.

Not the greatest suspicion post, but I'm really not up to par this game myself and I basically agree with your feelings about

why

Anndrius is so scummy. And Andrius' comment about it being a 'bad habit' means that he's either a ridiculous scumhunter (the things he says are taken so completely out of context that their worth is negative) or just plain scummy, and U'm not convinced that it's not the latter.

Hmm. Is there a reason for votes on me?

Vote Plum

Is there a reason for this vote on me? Is there a good reason not to vote you to L-1? Because this wagon is hella appealing.

[Plum]

To preface this: Sorry for my absence, couldn't stay awake at all Thursday night, Bio AP coming up &c. (and SATs tomorrow morning as well).

Okay, so lemme get this straight.

Innocent Investigation/Claimed Masonhood = Off the Table for Now

Ooba
Alm
Iecerint
SD
Flava
Andrius

At first glance that makes it a good choice for a fake claim, of course. How ever, a fake claim of an existingrole provokes a counter claim - that is unless Alma is Scum and Ares is scum but nor Alma is not Ares...

Yeah, or the Mod provided safeclaims (that is, told the scum a few charcters he deliberately left out of the game). That's always my first assumption in games like these. Ooba's claim that he at one point hada Vig ability hold a lot more weight, in my opinion.

@Iece, SD: Are you both Masons? Your soft claiming and following each other is neither here nor there. Any good scum would have been able to spot this on Day 1. Is your alignment confirmed to each other?

Weirdest. Post. Evar. Seriously, who saw that one coming/who would want to try to out masons if he thought he saw them? If you're Town and you see this, you shut up; there's generally no good to be gained from it if you're right. If you're scum, well . . . I could see rolefishing value in it. The fact that I can only see scum motivation for such a thing is bad bad bad. And considering Ooba's prior claim - rolecop? And then again LC claims he protected Ooba, which may account for lack of kills which would point to Town/not a specific type of scum Ooba. And of course he's Athena, which seems fairly Town for all intents and purposes. Doubt that he has a power which could cause him to be revealed as a role he isn't. Nevermind, I'd forgotten some of this, so throwing Ooba into list of players-not-to-lynch today.

The fact that they are both majorly protecting alma is looking bad right now.

Well, if they're confirmed-to-one-another Masons and one has an investigation on Alm, it would kinda make sense.

I'd be more likely to be on something like 3:1:8 than 2:2:8 but that's just me.

Iece said him and SD are alignment confirmed masons. A quick question from a newer player: how likely is it that scum try to pass themselves off as masons? It seems like it would be a good idea, but I haven't played in many non-newbie games here yet, so I wouldn't know. (This is my first non-newbie game I got into.)

Might work okay in the short term; long-term it's a huge gamble most scumbags wouldn't want to try; it takes courage, luck, and lots of attention to detail to pull off. Offhand I can't remember an instance of scum even attempting it.

Needless to say, I'm kind of worried that the masons might be a cult. Mafia to a lesser degree, unless someone tells me the likelyhood of mafia claiming masons.

Again, not a major concern (especially given that the leader would need a Night 0/pregame recruit ability to be confident in pulling off the fakeclaims). I'll start being concerned if one mason dies and flips non-Town or neither of them die for a long time and people claim to have not protected them or whatnot. Anyway, which of the gods would be a Cult Leader, anyway?

If we want to keep our noses out of both claimers and claimees, at first glance I'd vote Joh over Jack. Had some bad feelings on Joh yesterday but felt all right overall about Jack, Town-on-Town vibes on the very early Jack/Iec argument.

But perhaps we should look into LC's alignment, because its not feasibly hard for a mafia to claim Cop, and prove their scumbuddy innocent.

Or claim an innocent on a true innocent and look the Townier for it when all's said and done.

All things being equal, we'd rather lynch claimees over people claimed to be Town. Scum might/might not lie about results. However, between possible Cop Insanity and Godfather(s). I'd have to think about the utility of putting claimers as well as claimees into the 'we're not touching these today' pool or not.

I can't tell what's meant with this Wiki article Andrius linked to/this 'Sacred Saga' stuff.

Unvote; Vote: Joh

Until further rereads on Jack and anyone else we're not touching with a 12-fott pole today.

[Plum]

/prodded, sorry for lack of activity

I had a case on Joh yesterday; he got outclassed in scumminess by a few players but the iffiness still stands. I'm not too interested in lynching players who have innocent results on them today and I'm not especially interested in lynching the claimers today (I never had any bad vibes on LC but then never had like any vibes at all on him, and the others all look decent enough or are masons and practically confirmed so yeah).

Long story short, the only really appealing lynch I can see right now is on Joh.

Only checking certain scumteams

should

be indicated in some way, or made plausible &c. by the wording of the investigation power/result. In theory.

[Plum]

Re: the claims. I wouldn't have been surprised by scum-Joh claiming something trying to discredit someone like LC (or FF or Andrius - basically, someone we're ignoring today for decent reasons, not someone like Iec/SD who're give-or-take confirmed) - and either way searching for a counter is a rather scum-beneficial power. In that case, though, I'd have expected LC to just say that Joh's liarscum and forward goeth the lynch - not 'maybe Joh's lying scum or maybe something interfered with his result or maybe I really don't have a counter after all'. That's weird. But either way, I'm not Poseidon and if any role in this game is really in this game it's gotta be Poseidon and Hades.

Does this rule out Poseidon SK (though admittedly low number of kills Night 1 makes an SK in this game considerably less likely)? Because I was not assuming Town-Poseidon from the general flavor.

Hmm. As much as I HATE flavor arguements, my role PM flavor seems to indicate that Posiedon is town (just looked at it again).

Okaaaaay. I'll take your word on that one for now, I guess.

Poseidon still has his counter. My role confirms this. Part of my power is that I know when Poseidon's counter changes hands and that hasn't happened or I'd have been told.

Well we've just hit some big Mod screwery, then, because hasn't everyone who's had a chance to counter countered? Joh?

LC, have you looked into asking the Moderator whether or not it's possible that you have a counter? If he's really looking into keeping you/all of us in the dark it probably won't get a helpful answer, but I don't see how it could hurt.

If Jack is telling the truth - and he looks to be claiming most of it; recruitable Persephone rings very true - if we lynch right with Joh (which I'd be willing to be on barring some unlikely developments in the very short term) Jack'll have an incentive, I should hope, to hide - Jack, you can/can't use your special and your regular powers on the same Night please clarify. Or Jack's already been recruited or doesn't think he'll have reason to hide tonight. Hold on a sec. Jack - why do you suggest we lynch FF today and if it's not him Andrius tomorrow - why FF first?

I'm down with a Joh lynch. Still scummy, we can't even tell if he's lying or not, and as Iec said, too much scum/potential scum incentive for Joh and Jack to be going around claiming this sort of thing.

Plum? Scum giving up already?

Not giving up on my Bio AP and not thinking about V/LA because I'm technically at home and have access, just not very much time to focus on this game, which causes the game to grow bigger in my absence which makes me even less able to find time to cover everything which works like positive reinforcement like the hormone oxycontin . . . yeah.

Hmm... Plum voting Joh is definitely something to keep in mind, especially because that vote is on him for quite a while now. One more reason to lynch Joh, because it would help me decide on Plum....

???

WTH is with Jack voting and unvoting so fast?

[Plum]

I'm Gaia, Mother Goddess of the Earth. I'm sort of a modified doctor; I can choose someone to hide with me and so long as I'm not targeted with a kill they won't die. I protected Ooba Night 1. If you need it I'll claim my special now. Nu?

[Plum]

No, I'm not one of the traditional twelve but I've gone all the way with Zeus (then again, who hasn't?).

- So if you choose someone to hide with you and you are killed, they die too is it?

Yup. I wasn't banking on me getting killed Night 1, so. I targeted you again Night 2 though because the Mod announced no kills I wasn't really expecting it to affect anything one way or another. My special is that I can target someone and when they hide with me I can prevent all actions from hitting them altogether. Haven't used it.

I'm willing to vote Jack. Sitting here with a third-party, in a way, isn't helpful at all. Its like we have to sit here and worry about the mafia

and

what Jack'll do. :/ We don't need the extra force pretending to work with us, when he can jump ship at any time.

That is extremely scummy, Andrius. Wanting to vote a townie who could possibly be recruited but has no reason to allow himself to be recruited over a person that if you are town you know must be scum is incredibly scummy.

That's the best reason I can think of to pick Andrius over FF for today's lynch but honestly we're probably fine even on the off chance we hit the real Hermes.

[Plum]

To make it short: You are the lynchee, claim if you have something to claim!

Yeah that, xcept is there anything we're really waiting on/care about before we lynch besides the planned mason claim and when did we last get a votecount?

I'll be picking one of Jack/FF to hide unless someone realizes suddenly that it's a bad idea. I see peoples want me Vigged nice and hard, but than I'm always up for a good old fashioned one-for-one trade and this is the best way it'll go if people don't want me sticking around. In either case we're in a good position and I'm confident we can win with me gunned down on purpose anyway.

[Plum]

Um, I dunno why I never ended up using my Super. It just . . . didn't happen.

Sorry for lurking. Especially later durng my tenure here I got

very

demoralized. Having basically your entire team caught and not having fakeclaims does little good for the morale.

We knew going in that this would be a crazy Thirty Xanatos Pileup going in, and I know we still won, but having no safeclaims - and I know the stealing powers from the dead thing was suppose to help this - really felt bad.

[Plum]

Learn to invent safe claims that do not blatantly contradict the rules If you had not claimed a really far off goddess with a quasi bomb skill I would not have been so very suspicious of you as I were.

It would have been WORSE had I claimed Artemis, no? I had no clue which deities were remotely viable and which would get me counterclaimed and immediately lynched. From that point of view, Gaia was one of my best options. Still a HORRID option but I blame the Mod. Though I was going to point out that as to Gaia being obscure/not in the pantheon/whatever, she

did

go all the way with both Zeus and Poseidon (but then again, who hasn't?).


I think Joh countered LC because there weren't any frigging safeclaims, but I dunno for sure.

[Plum]

I didn't think I

did

get to. I

never

asked to use my special. Someone fill me in here, please?

[Plum]

Everyone else got such prettier pictures than I did

You are

Cerberus, Guardian of Hell

and are mafia aligned. As the protector of the Underworld, you follow Hades till the end of time.



Your partners are Hades, God of the Underworld (greenindirt), Persephone, Goddess of Springtime (Jack), and Erinnyes, the Ghosts of Wrong Doing (Johoohno). You can talk with your partners here. Each night, you and your partners may kill one person. You must send in the name of whom you wish to kill and whom is meant to do the killing. The target for the kill will then die that night unless protected or whomever is making the kill is blocked.

Power

: You are a permanent body guard for Hades. Any normal killing attack that would hit him is prevented and you die in his place. Additionally, if he is targeted by any power that gives results, you are targeted instead. You can not be protected by normal doctor protections when sacrificing yourself for Hades, nor can you be blocked by normal role blocks.

Special (Once)

: You prevent all actions from targeting your partners no matter whom sends them. (excluding specials)

Win Conditions:
A) Hades lives and ONE mafia member controls ALL three counters from Hades, Zeus, and Poseidon.

B) Hades dies and mafia out numbers town.

C) Mafia controls 8 of the 13 available powers.

Please confirm in thread here.

[Plum]

We didn't even think I'd get lynched in Andrius' place, y'know. I thought it was all over Day 2, and it very nearly was.