mini 943- Greek Mythology! (And the winner is... ?)

[Shadow Dancer]

/confirm

[Shadow Dancer]

Original Roll String: 1d12

1 12-Sided Dice: (8) = 8

[Shadow Dancer]

/vote: greenindirt

[Shadow Dancer]

@ Shadow Dancer
Why did you choose to roll a dice?

[...]

@ Jack
Dice rolling is completely useless? Do you not think that the decision to use a dice is in itself something from which we can substract information? I think scum is much more likely to use a dice than town.

What is more suspect in rolling a dice than doing some stupid reasoning like "vote greenindirt for having for his dirty nick" (or something like that). Very little information, most likely none, can be derived from it, anyways.

At least got a non random dabate started which might produce useful information.

/unvote

/vote Snow_Bunny

I think random stage is over. Tell me, what is your reason to vote Iec?

Vote Count

Shadow Dancer- Plum, Jack (L-5)
MindGamer- VasudeVa, Flava Flave (L-5)
VasudeVa- Bio Hazard (L-6)
Plum- Johoohno (L-6)
Johoohno- Mindgamer, Iecerint (L-5)
Iecerint- Snow_Bunny (L-6)
Snow_Bunny- Shadow Dancer (L-6)

With 12 alive, its 7 to lynch.

[Shadow Dancer]

First of: A huge sorry for my long absence. I really wanted to post 2 days ago but then ended up putting way too much time into rereading newbie 929 and writing my final atempt to defend myself only to realize, as I reached the last post, that I had been lynched... (But at least I'm conformed townie in that game now ;\ )

And finally I have the time to play

this

game - woohoo!
And I'm in the same bad situation again...

Whatever...

What caught my attention right now is the argument between Jack and Iec about my case.

I was a bit sceptical about what seemed to be a buddying attempt by Iec.
However, for the most part he seemed not to defend me but himself against Jack's accusations, that obviously emerged from Iec's assumption that English is not my mother tongue.

And he is right about that, english is my 2nd language.

So that makes him rather a good observer than a suspect.

I get a townish impression from Jack as well. Though he seemed a little bit too focussed on Iec at first (which can happen with only those 2 players generating most of the posts at that time) all his hitherto actions seem like legitimate scumhunting to me.

[Shadow Dancer]

Damn, hit post instead of preview...

/unvote

[Shadow Dancer]

The pre-game voting was about whom we wanted to purchase an additional power, if I'm not mistaken. So IMHO uncovering the outcome is like role fishing, thus anti-town.
Especially since powers can be transfered via kill, if I remember it right. So revealing powers would provide juice targets for night kills.

Hence I do not appreciate your idea.

FoS VV

I have to read some ISOs first, before deciding my next vote.

[Shadow Dancer]

I read the rules again. There are powers and there are itmes/counters. Powers can be stolen, counters are passed on on death, anyways it is a bad idea to reveal them.

[Shadow Dancer]

I must admit I got really suspicious of SV.

He has very few posts and IMO does not add much to the discussion. Also he states

I am very careful with my vote.

yet still he accuses Plum, who already contributed some analysis, of lurking. It almost seems as if he wants to keep a low profile while baiting other players into discussion.

What do you think about players in this game so far, SV? If you do not have any serious suspicions against any one, yet, at least tell us why you think some one might rather be town in your opinion.

And then first you state

Lying is inherently anti-town.

and later on you claim

Regarding "TWENTY" versus 12, I don't suppose any of you have heard of hyperbole?

To make this clear: I do not believe you at all. A hyperbole would have been something really huge and unrealistic like, say, in the order of magnitude of 100 or more.
However, to your credit I point out that IMO your lie has not any negative effect on the game or could potentially mislead people, so you may only be a townie not living up to his ideals.
So if this was the "real you" (in contrast to your role in this game) not wanting to admit a mistake, seeing that I am not the only one that became suspicious, I will appreciate it, if you just confess your slip before it causes too much distraction.
And dare you I ever catch you lying about anything meaningful for the game.

/vote SV

(At least momentarily)

[Shadow Dancer]

@VasudaVa

I have an idea, but I'm not sure if its good or bad. Since we had to do some pre-game voting, is it wise to say it out loud? I mean, it happened before the game started so it won't say much about alignment. And also it won't indicate any alignment since it is a vote regardless of alignment, it will give us an idea of what to expect in the days to come.

You are relativising a lot, which gives you an easy way to withdraw your proposition any time. But with a minimum of thought and just by reading the rules of this game again you should have realized, what I pointed out in my previous posts. And normally I would expect any one who makes a proposition for a role claim (or similar) strategy to at least state some reasons why he or she considers that strategy good or viable. You do nothing of that kind.

Still you propose it which made me think you might just have tried to lay out a lure for somebody unsuspecting to take and maybe reveal sensible information.

So I confirm my

FoS VV

[Shadow Dancer]

I was trying to find ways to make the mechanic work for us rather than against us. A quick reread of the game made me think that we were treating this almost too much like a normal game.

Could you elaborate on that a bit more? I am not if I understand what you mean here. Assuming that ny "us" you mean "town", why do you think the game mechanics disadvantage us? And why shouldn't we treat this like a normal game? The basic game mechanics are not really different.

[Shadow Dancer]

[*]

Shadow Dancer:

His buddying up with players is a bit disturbing (patting Iec on the back for finding out that English isn’t his first language and putting a townie stamp on Jack 136)

So admitting I feel a player is town is buddying up? I had to comment on the Jack vs. Iec argument for obvious reasons (i.e. it being over my case and me thinking I could help to resolve it).

, and so is his final words on his SV vote (that it is "momentarily", as if he expects to change pretty soon as something better appears, even though he himself has at lengths motivated why he votes in the first place) in post 144.

I also justified extensively why I am not too sure about my vote:

i) I did not state this explicitely, but it is obvious. SV announced V/LA until tuesday and still has not posted again, yet. I also think that he has a growing BW on him (I am not sure, last official vote count was friday as far as I can remember). I am not willing to lynch him without giving him the chance to defend himself.
ii) His lie was not about a relevant think, he did not try to manipulate any one or something like that. Because of that I do not consider his lie a sure scum tell
iii) I also have an eye on VV right now for reasons I also laid out in detail. And so far I am not very content with his aswer:

Well, primarily because the wincon here is a little different from a typical mafia game. The wincons is either from killing off scum or getting all tokens. If we know who has the token and the person is luckily Poseidon, we can win faster. That was the first plan but it really escaped me back then on how that can be baad against us. I only tried to get some discussion on the mechanic.

So you openly admit that you tried some role fishing? And it did not once cross your mind that that might be a bad/really really seriously anti-townish idea? I find harder and harder to believe you.

I give SV time until tomorrow to answer to the lie accusation. I will decide then, were my vote goes.

[Shadow Dancer]

I don't feel up to giving this game the analysis it needs. But I'd like to say that between Iec's summary of the case against SD and that comment that GiD just pointed out, I'm very much feeling the Iec-SD as partners theory.

Then elaborate on it, I really want to hear it because right now it seems quite far fetched to me.

[Shadow Dancer]

Oh, right, thanks.

Edit:

The last quote was by VV, of course (copypastaerror )

[Shadow Dancer]

I haven't read all new posts,yet. But right now I would really really appreciate SV posting so I can decide if my vote shall stay on him, because right now I very much lean towards (wait, that rather eupemistic) moving it on to VV.

Do you also see a scum getting some kind of nervous breakdown under pressure, talking OMGUS with weak reasoning?

Maybe I should ISO SB right now, not that I had any serious suspicions right now, but i t seems she multiplied the number of her posts during the past day.

I will go into detail tomorrow. I will also give my opinion about the Jack vs. Iec argument again, because Chronos asked for it.

Cu then, good night.

[Shadow Dancer]

So... finally...

/unvote

My opinion about SB: Undecided

He is going on the most suspect player. Nothing to say anout that as long as we do not know what VV really is.

Jack: Town

IMO he shows lots of scum hunting. His initial (over?)focus on Iec has the simple reason, as far as I can tell at least, that there was no one else to discuss on or with at that stage of the game.

Iec: Town

I have a very good feeling about him. I see him make good points and very distinct observations. He also shows a high (if not the highest) activity in this game so far. In summary I think he is a player that could prove to be very valuable as townie, definitely some one I would not frivolously lynch.

Too bad SV replaced out. I really would have liked to hear his answer. Now I'll have to keep an eye on his replacement ;\

/FoS on Whoeverreplacesshatteredviewpoint

And, of course,

/vote VV

. This was long due.

[Shadow Dancer]

Some Meta-talk:

I tried to keep it brief (and plan to that in the future because I cannot stand those WoT posts....). So if any one (now or ever) feels I did not adress something properly or wants my honest opinion about something, feel free to ask me for it.

This is now the only mafia game I'm actively playing, so I will do my best to post at least once a day from now on.

[Shadow Dancer]

Sorry, SB, of course you're right, statistically speaking it is still SV, but SV replaced out and VV is also my top suspect now. And of course, please excuse my gender error, it is nice to have some women around.

[Shadow Dancer]

What bugs me about Joh is that he throws around a bunch of question at virtually every one and uses quote some meta talk but I can onky find a minimum (at best) of opinion in his talk. He also has only voted Plum so far and that was a random vote, as I understand it.

So all in all he has a slight suspicious feeling sticking to himself.

Joh: Would you please elaborate on who are your key suspects and on what your cases against those are based upon?

[Shadow Dancer]

I am really undecided on Plum right now. Is there a specific issue with her, Iec? Maybe I need to read her posts more in context than in ISO. But that may take a while, if I feel the need I could do some massive rereading on Thursday.

[Shadow Dancer]

I do not feel the desire or necessity to comment on the replaced players so far. It seems a bit early to express my opinion. I'll definitely have an eye on SV's replacement.

Any one I forgot?
Oh, right - Flava:

Also undecided/ hard to read right now. Not many posts so far. Another "wait and see" candidate from my point of view...

[Shadow Dancer]

EBWOP: seriously do not know how that stray "quote" found its way into my sentence about Joh. It clearly doen't belong there. So you are allowed to ignore it Also "onky"="only", of course.

[Shadow Dancer]

@Almaster: I would really like your opnion on more players so I can decide if your over focus on VV should get you a + or a big - for waggonhopping...

@Andrius: I also played a third game, but replaced out. Mafia 112, I think. I also dice voted there. Furthermore I am confirmed towny in my Newbie game. Would you mid commend on non RVS stuff now?
And judging me only based on the quantity of my posts is kinda lame. What about the quality/content? Any specific questions, maybe?

[Shadow Dancer]

Ooouuuh... My head hurts... So many claims... I read it and read it, but somehow I cannot figure it out....

/unvote

for now...

I really need to think about hte best lynch strategy, based on the claims, I think...

[Shadow Dancer]

Actually, my role pm has a flavor.

[Shadow Dancer]

You mean just that one line that is marked with "

power

"...
Well.... no.

Now I see, the whole discussion is about stealable powers being flavour free...

This also results in the questions: What would a mafia cop do (after steeling the power), thus Vas claim of a normal cop role as well as the bomb part seem rather implausible to me, since both seem to kind of contradict the (openly known) rules of this game...

[Shadow Dancer]

What ever,

vote VV

Still the vote I am most comfortable with, maybe even more, because his claim seems to be kind of implausible (hopefully it is not just inconsistency in the rules or roles...)

[Shadow Dancer]

What is the current vote count, btw?

[Shadow Dancer]

I don't think we can mobilize another wagon before deadline. So I will keep it like this...

Well, I am really overtired right now, I'll go to bed. gn8

[Shadow Dancer]

Shouldn't the deadline be over, yet?! Any way, VV is dead, if I am not mistaken.

[Shadow Dancer]

Hmmm what? That seems to come ou of nothing? Why is Iec scum? Because he put VV at L-1? We do not even know the outcome, yet.

And why do you think you'll die tonight? You don't seem like an atractive night kill target for any one atm, IMO.

[Shadow Dancer]

I just realized deadline was extended two pages ago, must have overlooked that ;\

[Shadow Dancer]

Excuse me, where did you say Iec was scum? If you had a case against him I missed it. I cannot find it in your ISO, either and I think you did not vote him, either.

I am just very curious because you kind of slipped under my radar, basically because of your rather low activity.... I do not know what to really think about you now...

Any way, if you think Iec (or some one else) is scum and you will be NKed, maybe you should share your thoughts before night starts?!

[Shadow Dancer]

Wow, what, calm down VV, in this game we all got cool special powers we do not want to go to waste. And stop your OMGUS talking, your role claim was not convincing because obviously it was faked. I caught you in a straight out lie and now I am scum for that? Yeah, OMGUS, too.

I can see your motives for your wrong claim, but it was a bad made up gambit, nevertheless. How ever, could you please explain your role again, I am not entirely sure I understood it right now.

So you power (the stealable one) was cop? Straight forward (allignment) cop? Not role cop or flavor cop? So what would have happened if mafia got that power? (This questions is to DeathNote, too.)

Your special power is role nema reveal... OK. Why was it wasted than? We know oobas role name now. (Not that it would help much, we can still only guess his alignment, though I really hope that (the godess of) wisdom is on town's side , neither do we know his powers.) As I understand it, your special power really does not do that much, as long as it does not reveal Hades himself. (Maybe DeathNote could give a hint, too?)

[Shadow Dancer]

Only 11 hours, read DeathNote's last post.

Yeah, I would really like to solve the question about his real powers convinvingly until night. Right now it seems to me that at least the cop role was genuine, but than again I do not understand what it would have done for mafia, if they had stolen it...

[Shadow Dancer]

Sorry, that post was supposed to be a reactio to Iecs last post, but the forums were down for me gain

[Shadow Dancer]

Only 11 hours, read DeathNote's last post.

Yeah, I would really like to solve the question about his real powers convinvingly until night. Right now it seems to me that at least the cop role was genuine, but than again I do not understand what it would have done for mafia, if they had stolen it...

[Shadow Dancer]

Normally I would not believe Almas claim, but Ooba seems to confirm his Vig ability (even if it does not state "Vig" explicitely in the description). Ooba is the goddes of wisdom, so it is plausible that his ability grants him some kind of knowledge, maybe about other players' role description/abilities... Only thing that does not fit in for me is the fact that we only had one victim. That could mean there is a doctor/protector role of some kind. On the other, hand we do not even know for sure, that mafia has to kill in this game to win (Correct me, if I am wrong), so it could be some hidden mechanic.

I'll leave it like that for now... Definitely worth some further observation.

The double night thing is also interesting, it shows us that there are powers in this game that deviate far from any standard roles.

Seriously, this is all confusing...

[Shadow Dancer]

Does Alma losing his power mean we got a scum vig now?!

[Shadow Dancer]

Still I cannot help myself but believe Alma. If he was town, he would be playing terribly bad, but I wouldn't consider his play any better if he was scum... So all in all his (and Ooba's) claims are rather unlikely but not impossible.

At least I would not concentrate on him as the only suspect.

I want FF to answer my question from D1. Where did your sudden suspicion of Iec come from, I cannot see where it came from and contrary to your own words you did not express any reservations towards Iec before.

Plum still gives me headaches...

[Shadow Dancer]

Still low activity

I do not understand Plum's vote for Andrius at all. You say that you think Alm's claims are plausible enough to be believed, fair enough (that's also my point of view right now), but

why

the vote for Andrius after that? Because of the rather irrelevant quote you brouhgt up?

[Shadow Dancer]

Vote contra mass claim.

[Shadow Dancer]

Wow, what... Trying to inniciate a mass claim, Iec? You claim cop without scum results and even no significant waggon on Alma, whom you defend? Why?!

Any way, I do not want to withhold my vote any longer. I also distrust FF, right now.

vote FF

I might reconsider my opinion tomorrow after some more ISO rereads and background reading.

DeathNote: Vote count, please.

[Shadow Dancer]

So you claim 1 shot SP alihnemnt cop, do I understand it correctly now?

Were is every one?

[Shadow Dancer]

Some thoughts...

I think Alma claiming Ares is genuine. Ares is a role that is almost certainly in this game.

At first glance that makes it a good choice for a fake claim, of course. How ever, a fake claim of an existingrole provokes a counter claim - that is unless Alma is Scum and Ares is scum but nor Alma is not Ares...

Ares being some kind of killing role makes perfectly sense (him being kind of the god of bloodshed...). So if Alma is really Ares, which I am as good as sure about, he is either really vig or he is SK that chose to claim a role that would disguise his true identity very well...

He would have needed to predict Oobas later claim how ever, which is not impossible but still makes him a bit more trustworthy in my eyes.

All that does not makie him a good lynch candidate for me right now.

There is no reason to doubt Ooobas claim, unless some one comes up with a good reasoning why Athene might not be town...

Flava keeps lurking, interupted only by active lurking, contributing next to nothing substantial at all. The only things that made me insert a "next to" into the previous sentence are his "last minute suspicions" that he throws in (namely against Iec at the end of D1), while still voting other players, namely VV, Plum, for reasons that are either not there or very thin at best...

I am quite comfortable with my vote, still I am wondering if it is just because I do not like/understand his style...

Flava, if you have anything substantial to say, please do it at least

before

we lynch you, OK (I am not refering to a role claim, that is totally up to you).

Maybe I have to revise my opinion about Jack... Notice to self: Needs a reread.

If any one has a solid case against Iec, please bring it up, because right now I feel as if I might trust him too much and that makes my skin crawl... This game has so many degrees of freedom, I am really paranoid right now...

Somehow LC is still a white piece of paper for me... It alomst seems as if the both of us agree about every thing. I should give him a town read for that, but then again my paranoia....

I also need to reread Joh, but that may take a while. He made some really long posts

Of topic question to Joh: Could you please give me the code you use to generate those neat links to other posts? I really like those.

[Shadow Dancer]

What ever I tried to write there...

"that is unless Alma is Scum and Ares is scum but Alma is not Ares... "

Now it's correct...

[Shadow Dancer]

[...] And no, just because there's a good chance I'll be lynched doesn't mean I'm not going to keep pushing what I believe.

So

what

is it you believe in, Flava? Please tell us!

[Shadow Dancer]

I want him to contribute more than just claim...

If he is town, he certainly has some thoughts in his head that, given the low quantity

and

qualoty of his posts, he did not get rid of, yet.

If he is in fact mafia, well, then I do not care, but what's he gotta lose, eh?

[Shadow Dancer]

SD, what do you mean by "he would have had to have predicted ooba's claim later"?

It is pretty much a WIFOM argument:

D1 Alma claimed vig.

D2 Ooba claimed to know Alma in deed had a not specified kill ability.

If Alma had claimed a non killing role, he would have risked being exposed by such a claim, hence, if he wasn't Vig but in fact SK, he would have needed to predict that such a claim would or could happen and accordingly chose Vig as the only possible disguise claim.

Therefore the question how suspicious Alma still is directly correlates with the question, how probale it is he predicted what might and evenuattly would happen.

As stated before I am almost sure that his Ares claim is genuine which basically eliminates the possibility that he is Hades GF.

[Shadow Dancer]

SD, what do you mean by "he would have had to have predicted ooba's claim later"?

It is pretty much a WIFOM argument:

D1 Alma claimed vig.

D2 Ooba claimed to know Alma in deed had a not specified kill ability.

If Alma had claimed a non killing role, he would have risked being exposed by such a claim, hence, if he wasn't Vig but in fact SK, he would have needed to predict that such a claim would or could happen and accordingly chose Vig as the only possible disguise claim.

Therefore the question how suspicious Alma still is directly correlates with the question, how probale it is he predicted what might and evenuattly would happen.

As stated before I am almost sure that his Ares claim is genuine which basically eliminates the possibility that he is Hades GF.

[Shadow Dancer]

I confirm being mason with Iec. We are both confirmed town. We also share our powers in QT, thus I can confirm our town result on Alma.

I like Oobas double mafia theory, but I am not to sure...

Another possibility is, of coursed, that SB was an overkill, i.e. two (or more) people killing him.

I think we reached a stage where a full information claim is inevitable.

With so many proven townies exposure to night kills is also rather low, so tell us, Chrono.

I said full information claim not role or power claim. Any information that does not help to further cut down on scum candidates is likely to rather help mafia. For example we have a Zeus counter to protect somewhere (though scum could also have it hence it was assigned pseudo randomly.

We could locate it by claiming our pre game votes,

but that would just help scum!

Should we claim more Iec? I am not entirely sure right now.

[Shadow Dancer]

I have not reread Plum so far. I think some people had cases/suspicions against Jack and Joh, I would like them to elaborate on it more, because I could not find anything particularly scummy in their ISO so far (but they have a very high scum probability right now...)

[Shadow Dancer]

Deadline is when, btw?

[Shadow Dancer]

That's good, leaves us some time.

I have to announce

V/LA from 5/1 to 5/3

, I definitely won't have any internet access during those three days. I hate that timing right now ;..(

[Shadow Dancer]

I think claims that would further narrow the group of suspects down would be appreciated.

[Shadow Dancer]

That's why I asked for the dead line.

[Shadow Dancer]

I was answering Iec's and LC's questions by the way.

[Shadow Dancer]

If a majority of players agrees, that my and Iec's mason claim is not trustworthy, I could further substantiate it with very strong and plausible claims, but I do not think that would provide useful information for town right now, hence it would help scum more.

It seems like the sheer number of investigation roles in this game is just over the top ridiculous, which convinces me that there is at least one investigation immune GF/SK, double GF or something like that, making Andrius' and Ooba's theories very plausible likely.
Why am I mentioning this? - I got one, too. I claim

town result on Andrius

. Iec can confirm this since we share a QT.

How ever, there is likely a big fish among all those "innocents". But still we can limit our scum hunt to Jack, Plum and Joh for today.

Of those I like Joh the least, but that is pure gut. I am really serious about my questions for solid cases against those three! Please enlighten me!

Any way, for now:

/unvote /vote Joh

Speculating about roles/flavours might or might not help town right now. The problem is, that greek mythology is not as straight forward as monotheistic mythologies. Hades vs. Zeus is no way devil vs. god. Greek gods are not "good" or "bad" in principle. There are lots of complex relations and relationships between all the gods, lesser gods, demigods, heroes, all kinds of scred creatures... Not even the twelve olympians are defined unambiguouslym but who is among them may defer depending on time and location of the historical source.

I do not think that there are roles loke Persephone, Charon or Cerberos in this game, which would clearly belong to Hades. But there are quite some links to other deities, most of the gods are siblings one way or another. Demeter is possible, as Iec said. But there are other possibilities, too. P.e. Hephaistos was throw out of Olymp and cripled in the process, but reincluded later on. Still a good motive for vengenace, eh?

Any thoughts about the cult theory? My first thought is, that I hate cults. Doesn't mean there is noen, of course. What would be the wincon of such a cult?

[Shadow Dancer]

Oh, and Andrius, before I forget.

I explicitely stated that claiming pre game votes to locate the Zeus counter would only help scum. Hence we should

not

do it.

I think a very reasonable assumption, no matter ahich theory is true, is that among Joh, Jack and Plum there are two lesser scum and one innocent. What we have to do now is decide who are the two scum and lynch them.

In addition to that we might claim our way up to a possible breaking strategy. But we should do it very cautiously, claim by claim, step by step, bit by bit, checking every claim for plausibility before piling up full claims by every one that in the end just generate confusion and help scum to locate good targets for kills, power steels or what ever (we do not exactly know what scum can do and what they need to do to win!).

[Shadow Dancer]

Oh, bad typo there. Needs a EBWOP...

"steel" is meant to be "steal" obviously (though a power steeling skill would be really cool )

[Shadow Dancer]

If you believe me you should also believe my Andrius is investigated town result.

I trust Iec 100% obviously, Ooba is almost guaranteed town.

I have doubts about Alma, but I leave it for now.

FF and Andrius are also investigated town. I also leave them for now.

I do not know about fake claims and counterclaims in this game. For example we can consider the fact that there is more than one cop role as proven, no way we got four or five fake claimed cops (or similar powers) (VV, Ooba, LC, Iec and myself all claimed investigation results or cop powers).

I have an uncertain feeling that the most untrustworthy player her is DN, that bastard

[Shadow Dancer]

My V/LA starts now, lasting for approximately 76h. See you guys on monday.

[Shadow Dancer]

OK, I'm back and di some quick reading. I will do a complete read tomorrow and add my stuff. Just way too tired from an awesome yet exhausting weekend trip.

Which Gambit, Iec? That he offered to hammer on VV?

However, I would not frivolously rulke out the possibility of an bastard mod. All those investigation skills in one game, even with some one shot ones, is a lot of information that can be gathered by town, especially if you count in that double night thing. There must be some ugly conclusion behind this which I cannoit right now put my finger on...

[Shadow Dancer]

Must be Alma, he's been inactive for quite a while now.

I am no longer sure how trustworthy LC's claim is. Could be bold scum defending his ally...

[Shadow Dancer]

@FF: Too state it clearly once and for all, Iec and I are

confirmed town

masons. No doubt about that.

How ever, I am still not convinced of your innocence and still throwing suspicions around with reasoning oscillating between weak and non at all (now against Jack and Plum) does no help that fact. If you in deed find them suspicious for other reasons than either exclusion or simple waggon hopping I would like you to bring up a solid case against at least one of your so called suspects.

[Shadow Dancer]

I do not think that that "sacred saga" stuff is of any use, I think DN just used random web finds or something like that for the pictures. My role picture is also on Photobucket (maybe DN fopund it there, but as well he might have uploaded it himself), but not related to "sacred saga". I think this is a dead end in mod-outguessing...

Can we agree on Joh as lynchee? I am not too sure right now, because his case is based mostly on exclusion of other suspects and a small portion of gut feeling, not only for me, as far as I can tell. No one brought up a solid case so far... If we can agree on him nonetheless, we should L-1 him quickly, so we can react to his claim. If not, we should seriously shift focus on Plum/Jack/LC (LC as claimee is more suspicious than FF).

By the way, thanks Joh for your explanatioj on the link issue. I think I understand the syntax now, will try it soon...

Another clarification: Both Iec's and my investigatio were one shot and not our powers (our powers are both mason, obviously) but had some relation to the occurence of that extra night.

[Shadow Dancer]

I also had "bad vibes", more precisely I had an uncertain feeling that he was asking too many questions, faking intense scum hunting, but drawing to few conclusions and hardly taking stances. However, upon reread I could not significantly validate my feelings or stretch them into a concrete case. I still have that uncertain feeling, though, and think that Joh is acting exactly as a good scum player might act... Still with less than one week left we should either have Joh claim soon or find another good wagon to start rolling right away.

[Shadow Dancer]

Again: Mine is not. So sacred saga is a dead end. DN only used some pictures based on sacred saga.

[Shadow Dancer]

@CryMeARiver: Welcome. Bad news: Your two predecessors partially played horribly. Good news: Nevertheless you are far off my suspect list right now (reasons found via reread ). I doubt you managed to do enough of a reread to fak claim Ares in the short time between your posts (though it is of course not impossible). Still another indication towards your innocence.

Nice play by Jack, gives you a fat plus on my townie scale

The longer I think about it the more I mistrust LCs claim. I do not like the timing of it and it is just way to easy to fake. If it was really townie defending (alleged) townie, why didn't he wait for Flava's claim?

On the other hand I asked him to provide information, maybe he just felt squeezed *feeling guilty ;..(*

Still... I do not like my two scum among JackJohPlum-theory any more.

FoS LC

My proposition: After already claiming two strong powers you should do a flavour claim, i.e. claiming your role and why you posses those two powers.

Right now if Joh waggon fails, I am willing to lynch LC, even if it is only to validate his claims.

@Joh: "I seem always scummy" is a really bad defense. You already adressed my main argument vs. you, your questioning habbits. Maybe you could elaborate on that a bit more and explain your overall game strategy.
I also think you had a suspicion against Plum somewhere in this game. Can you present a solid case against her?

[Shadow Dancer]

That's what I was refering to when I said that it is not impossible

[Shadow Dancer]

Do it.

[Shadow Dancer]

@Andrius: You must have been really tired when you wrote your post, right?

In the short term, I'm waiting to see if (namely) anyone claims a successful RB N1.

Where did this come from? And what did you hope to gain from this?

A succesful roleblock on town side could have revealed scum or catch Alma in a lie.

@ Ooba: There's no anti-Ooba wave. You just aren't confirmed town.

Why do you think Ooba might be scum?

@ Jack: Almaster claimed R.B.? When was this? You said it here.

He did not. It was a trap to porvoke a discrepance in Alma/Cry's claims, possibly revealing a lie/gambit by Alma/Cry.
From a WIFOM point of view it was either Jack scum hunting or scum Jack trying an easy blind shot at an innocent and anive townie...

Bah. I tried a reread, but decided on a D3-only reread. :/

I'm looking at Alm/CMAR now.

Alm NK’d SB b/c SB was "relatively quiet and I had less of a reading on [her]". Alm/Jack pair possible? Since Alm said he would have killed Jack, but he "thought it’d be better to smoke someone [SB] who was relatively quiet and I had less of a reading on". Excuse to save killing a scumbuddy? Given that Jack immediately got on Alm for Vig’ing a neutral read, I have to consider Alm/Jack in a scumpair/team.
Many of us had scum reads on Alm D1. Just because he was investigated, with a consensus amongst us saying that there’s probably a GF/ something like that, we are clearing him? He may not be the right choice today, but I still think he's scummy.

The point is that IMO everything points to SV/Alma/Cry being genuine townie vig with some really bad slips in playstyle (among other minor issues LC supposedly straight out lying and Alma (SP?)-vigging neutral player)

I'm really tired and stuff, so I'm going to bed.
If someone could sum up the case against Joh that'd be great.

As I see it, our serious problem is that there is no water proof or at least solid case against Joh. By believing all claims every one except Plum, Joh & Jack is eliminated from the pool of suspects. We're absically just agreeing that we like Joh's play style the least (at least it might boil down to that).

[Shadow Dancer]

Sorry for that double wall of text. Bad site connection again.

@DN: Please delete one of them.

@all: Who else distrusts LC's claim?

[Shadow Dancer]

Ooops, my fault. Not you, SV.

How ever, I do not trust you, either. What about a role claim, eh?

[Shadow Dancer]

Your claim is the problem. I do not find it trustworthy. If i had to pick one among the claims to be fake, yours would be by far on top of the list.

You claim "Jack of all trades" with two (and more unrevealed) one shot abilities. Fits nice, you can have a town investigation tell on FF and on the same claim doc protection on Ooba N1. It all fits nicely, it all screams "trust me" and

it all can easily be faked

.

To specify my demand: Since you already claimed your powers (most of them at least), also claiming your role name (i.e. which god you are) and why that role is supposed to be a JOAT (flavour claim) would help me a lot to decide how trustworthy you are and would not hurt town, because we already have got three or four confirmed townies that will most likely be NKed, so one more on the list helps town more than mafia.

[Shadow Dancer]

Normally I would oppose a Hydra player, but right now it does not matter that much, I think, so I endorse it if it helps to keep a player actively in game.

@LC:

thesis:
Thanks, LC, great claim. We know that Poseidon is in game and if there is no counter claim it means it is genuine. That also validates FF's town investigation.

That also eliminates 2:2:8 theory and makes the two scum among JohJackPlum theory very likely.

antithesis (WIFOM theories):
2:2:8 is correct and LC, probably with FF is scum. By full claiming he tries to take the bull by the horns, make us trust him, even possibly protect him (Poseidon counter).

I cannot think about any other possibility right now. And I do not think my antithesis is very evident... So... JohJackPlum is the cattle of the day.

My opinion right now: Let's quicklynch Joh and see waht happens.

Other's thoughts?

[Shadow Dancer]

We need to get Joh at L-1 with some one willing to hammer, then he will claim (he said so). We can still start a ne waggon or rearrange the hammerer depending on his claim then. However, we need to get a majority quickly, because time is running short.

@Cry: R = Rolename; P = Power; SP = Special Power

D1:

- Alma, former SV, now you, claims R Ares, P Vig, SP unstoppable Vig.
- VV claims P Rolecop, SP Bomb. Bomb is obviously fake, he is lynched, reclaims rolereveal of hammererer/killer (VV was town).
- Ooba is revealed as Athena for hammering VV (most likely town alligned)

N1:

- only 1 kill occurs (townie SB)

N2:

- D2 is skipped (some one using his SP?), N2 is a no kill night (all killing abilities disabled) and other things happen (p.e. a shit load of invetigations flying around, I also do not understand the hidden mechanics behind it ), so the dayskipper was probably protown.

D3:

- Alma claims SB kill, loss of his Vig P and gain of a new P
- Ooba confirms that Alma had killing ability (so he is power cop or some kind of tracker)
- Iec and me claim P town confirmed mason
- also both of us claim 1 shot investigations in irregular N2 (as I said: lots of crazy stuff, do not ask, 'cause I do not know either , could be modding bastardry), Iec on Alma, me on Andrius, both with "town" results
- LC claims R Poseidon, P JOAT (1 shot doc, 1 shot allignment cop, 1 shot roleblock), SP universal roleblock. He also claims N1 protection on Ooba (hence explaining why there was only 1 kill N1) and N2 "town" investigation on FF.

That leaves us with

- me an Iec confirmed town (masons)
- Ooba most likely town (we know he is Athena and Athena is most likely a town role)
- SV/Alma/you likely town (all claims fit, innocent investigation by confirmed townie Iec)
- Andrius investigated innocent (by me, also confirmed townie), either genuine townie or mafia GF/SK (the same goes for SV/Alma/you and probalby FF)
- FF investigated innocent by LC, see below.
- LC either being genuine town poseidon or being mafia poseidon with Alma and probably FF
- that leavs JackJohPlum with neither claims nor invetigations nor (that's the pity) any solid cases on their sleeves...

What could prevent a poseidon counter claim would be SB having been poseidon. In that case LC would also be scum.

Anything I forgot?

We try to make Joh claim ATM, btw, so if you just voted him it would help us a lot.

[Shadow Dancer]

LC, I am not sure if I understand your SP claim 100% correctly. If you used your SP this night, what would happen? Would it disable all Ps? Or all Ps and SPs? Or only all scum Ps or alls scum Ps and SPs? Or some other combination?

[Shadow Dancer]

Claim:

CMAR(AlGm) kills SB - unstoppable vig special

Did he claim using his SP? Why should he have done that?

Claim:

Ooba "investigates" CMAR(AlGm) normal power - ??? - knows it was(is?) a "Vig" ability

I thought it just cofirmed a

killing

ability, not neccesarily "Vig"?!

[Shadow Dancer]

@mod: Votecount please.

@Joh, Jack Plum, FF (especially FF): Please contribute.

[Shadow Dancer]

Yup - he used his unstoppabale. Not sure if he claimed it (could have missed it). But CMAR said so in the last page.

Ah, I see, another hooribly bad play by Alma Maybe we would have needed it vs. a bullet proof godfather/mafia doc/whatever... And there is no apparent reason why SB would have required AP amonition...

Vig for all purposes - can kill one player unless in the cases of roleblock or protection. The power did not have the word vig though. Hence the "".

So it could not have been a normal mafia NK ability. That was not entirely clear to me so far.

As a side note, had you claimed that the power explicitely said "vig", I would have catched right on your throat now

[Shadow Dancer]

@ Poseidon:

Do not counter claim LC.[...]
Might as well claim here since it serves town: I have the ability to look for counters and LC does not have one (I found out N2). I'll keep my N1 choice secret for now.[...]

Why should I believe you over LC, especially

without

a counter claim?

[Shadow Dancer]

EBWOP: [...]I would have caught you right on your throat now. ;/

[Shadow Dancer]

@Ooba: I do not get what you mean here.

What do you mean by Cry's power being proxy for mafia kill?

[Shadow Dancer]

@ SD: Why can't Alma/CMAR/Whoever's ability not be a regular mafia NK?

Because Ooba says so? (That's exactly what I just asked him and he said it was definitely a vig ability). A scum Ooba protecting GF Alma/Cry theory is just too weird IMO...

@ SD again: Scum_LC claims Poseidon to fish out the real one, is that what you want?

I'm most interested in getting LC's response now.

So scum LC getting away with a perky false claim and likely wasting town abilities to "protect" him is a better play? Come on.

I say: Best play is to kill you to either validate your claims (and catch scum LC as well as possibly scum Alma/Cry and scum FF) or to get the scummy you right away...

Maybe you should full claim.

I have to think about LC's theory here
There are quite a lot of "maybe"s and "could be"s in there. It almost seems to be a soft defense of Joh. But why should LC defend Joh?! I am too tired right now, I think...

When I saw this, I instantly thought that skipping D2 was a scum move, since scum benefit from another night. I also thought that the no-kill N2 was a town-thing, for obvious reasons. So, if we're going to talk about it, I'd pin it on SD-Iece, since they could have used both their supers to make this effect, and their investigations, but their tone hints that they didn't cause it. Therefore, I think that a scum caused the no D2, and a town player used his super to make the next night no-kill, but since D2 was skipped, it fell right to N2 as a no-kill.

First of, see DN's post here: He tells us right away, that N2 will be a no kill night. No one (except the one who skipped D2) knew that there would be another night at that moment. So it must be part of the skip ability. Hence I am convinced it was a pro town ability. The extra investigations Iec and me got might have been part of it or some other abilty interfering. DN just told us we could investigate that night. I do not know how it happened. However, that was also a pro town action, obviously.

[Shadow Dancer]

Veray interesting. Jack claim sounds plausible. I just do not really understand how it works. Does Hades need to use a recruit skill on Jack to recruit him? Hide SP would prevent this? And what would happen if Jack found Hades? Would Hades know?

I am not sure about the Flava play, basically because I am still not sure if we can trust LC. However, I would still prefer lynching Joh because he is very likely scum either way and lynching him, hence revealing his allognment, would give us clarity about LC's role.
If LC is not Poseidon, I really want the real Poseidon to CC.

On the other hand lynching scum FF would also put a bad light on LC (though FF could be Hades GF, but we wouldn't know...)...

[Shadow Dancer]

@CryMeAlmaRiver: DN said kills are disabled in N2 in his N1-into-N2-post.

FF, would you mind to claim... Would you mind to

post?!?!?!?!

Ouuld you mind to, for once, at least

pretend

to have an opinion?

Plum? Scum giving up already?

I will change my vote to any of you who fails to contribute during the next 24 hours!

Iec has also been inactive for an unusual (for him) amount of time now

Time is running short, posting is crucial now!

[Shadow Dancer]

If a majority of players agrees to mistrust Iec and me I still have a major claim up in my sleeve to confirm us to town. How ever, there is no information to be gained for town from this right now, so I'd prefer doing it D4 (or, if I die, Iec can still do it).

I see town with good chances to win right now, so I believe Jack.

Plum not posting for so long is really suspicious because she might just try to flake/lurk her way out. She did not tell a V/LA. That there is nothing worth to post about can definitely not be the reason for her inactivity. Being one of the main suspects and having lots of claims in the meantime she should definitely give her opinion.

I do not really care about Joh's and FF's claims right now, because both of them are very likely scum. A Poseidon counter claiming would change my opinion, of course.
I won't start to compete in an OMGUS galore with FF...

Temporarily losing a counter does not break town's neck, btw!

With Jacks's claim I think 2:2:8 theory is out of question now, even with the uncertainty about LC.

If LC is really Poseidon he can give us another kill free night. Confirming his status is almost as crucial as finding scum now, I think. So lynching Joh is still the best move for me.

You missed the point I was trying to make. I understand what you're trying to say, but I was thinking that it was someone's town-aligned super that would cause the next sequential night to be a no-kill night, independently of the skipped D2. I think that the skipped D2 and the no-kill N2 are two supers from opposing factions. (As I can't see why the town would want to skip the DP.)

Lots of early investigations, for example? At least that is what definitely happened.
Also for it to be two different Powers it would have been two phases: i) DN posts the day skip (1st power used), ii) DN posts that night kills are disabled (or would just ignore any kill actions PMed to him) (2nd power used). But he did in fact both in openly in

one

post. For your variant the pro town player would have needed in advance that there would be another night and acted accordingly, also in advance, in PMing DN about his power usage. This is, at the best, very very unlikely from a logical point of view.

[Shadow Dancer]

EBWODP:

You missed the point I was trying to make. I understand what you're trying to say, but I was thinking that it was someone's town-aligned super that would cause the next sequential night to be a no-kill night, independently of the skipped D2. I think that the skipped D2 and the no-kill N2 are two supers from opposing factions. (As I can't see why the town would want to skip the DP.)

Lots of early investigations, for example? At least that is what definitely happened.
Also for it to be two different powers it would have needed to be two phases: i) DN posts the day skip (1st power used), ii) DN posts that night kills are disabled (or would just ignore any kill actions PMed to him) (2nd power used). But he did in fact both

openly in only one post

. For your variant the pro town player would have needed to know in advance that there would be another night and acted accordingly, also in advance, by PMing DN about his power usage. This is, at the best, very very unlikely from a logical point of view.

[Shadow Dancer]

Hmm... Plum voting Joh is definitely something to keep in mind, especially because that vote is on him for quite a while now. One more reason to lynch Joh, because it would help me decide on Plum....

@Ooba: IMO a 3+1 mafia would be a bit too strong. On the contrary, a two men mafia would be a bit too weak without the recruitment... 2+1mafia+1SK is possible. Maybe Plum or Joh is SK?

Jack, can you please elaborate on the matter of your recruitement mechanics? Are you recruited by Hades through a spcial recruitment skill or just by mafia NK-targeting you?

[Shadow Dancer]

@mod: I think we need an extended deadline.

Also, if Plum needs a replacement, I would endorse it

before

nightfall.

[Shadow Dancer]

Well, your vote on Joh does not look like a scum suing scum for me (however, I do not bother much now, let's see what Joh turns up to be).

Anyway, Plum showing up saves me voting her for absens...

@Iec: More than. Do it! But we better claim

tomorrow

!!! I do not want scum to screw around with our night actions... You should definitely trust me a bit more...
(Rest of town needs to wait for D4 for explanation, sorry)

Jack, wtf? If you unvoted beacause of Iec's remark, that's a horrible reason...

Joh, time for a full claim!

@mod: I still want the extansion.

Any one else agrees?

[Shadow Dancer]

So your first argument was LS cannot be Poseidon because you investigated him not to have a counter? Then yopu claim the same investigation skill and being Poseidon yourself? Seems like you want to avoid contradictions at all cost. Still sounds to me like scum in his last breath...

Also Joh knew exactly that the only thing that would convince me on not lynching him would be a Poseidon CC, that he now plays that card is just logical, but not an indicator of him being town.

I say some one confirmed town should hammer Joh, just to make sure we do not lose a counter, if LC is the liar...

I say Ooba do it (this is also an answer to LC-Iec-SD scum theory - now we aren't).

[Shadow Dancer]

Ooba's on the right track as always.

Giving an item to him as almost confirmed town in N1 also makes perfect sense.

You agree on the hammer, Ooba? I can also do it.

We should set a fixed time when every one is confirmed online and do it then.

I PMed DN about vote count and extended deadline. I hope he answers soon.

[Shadow Dancer]

Meusa's head...Hmm... Perseus?

I thought about Hepaistos as an intem forger...

At least that part is also well possible. And I still see no reason to not trust Ooba.

[Shadow Dancer]

Yep, Oobas unvote was here. Ooba is the hammer.

My last post for D3, I think. Nothing left to say anyway... Let's see what Joh turns up...

[Shadow Dancer]

Wouldn't it be jst totally hillarious if it turned out that I am scum with Ooba and Iec?

Just kidding...

No worries, Ooba, everything's alright with me and Iec.

But:
Why is Plum town?
Why should LC be SK?
Why is FF less suspicious than Andrius? Especially if LC turns out SK/scum and thus not trustworthy?

[Shadow Dancer]

Couldn't Joh turn out being genuine scum Poseidon? (Back to 2:2:8 theory, yay!)

I should stop talking now...

[Shadow Dancer]

First of: Yeeehaaa. Dindong, the scum is dead, the scum is dead, the scum is dead

I really feel better now.

At first glance my most obvious play would be to lynch Plum next on account of my 2-scum-among-JackJohPlum-theory... But I still feel Plum rather tonish and her rather early vote on Jack gave her a minor plus point in my record....

FF or Andy would be next oon my list, most likely one of them is GF, problem is: The other one is genuinely innocent and I do not know, yet, who would be the better prey...

DataJunk being SK is still possible but I consider it really really unlikely. If there is an SK it is rather some one else.

I consider LC genuine Poseidon now. That also makes him most likely town. Could still be some risky scum gambit, but nothing to primary hunt for now. Only possibility left is there is a non LC scum Poseidon, but that sounds rather farfetched... SB Poseidon seems even mor unlikely to me...

I think FF full claiming would be a good think.

I decided to believe Jack for now. His claim sounds very genuine and after all that investigations and the game turning in towns favor and now a successfull scum lynch, his hide and LCs roleblock still in play, I believe that he is earnestly decided to try his best luck with town. We need to keep in mind that he can betray us any time though!

That just as a quick survey to start the new day with. Nothing of it is really set in stone, yet. I need some rereads, rethings and a good portion of RL sleep in a RL night to thing about it. Withholding my vote untill tomorrow.

Fos Plum, FF & Andy

for the meantime...

Good night to my fellow townies. Well played!

[Shadow Dancer]

EBWODP: At first glance my most obvious play would be to lynch Plum next on account of my 2-scum-among-JackJohPlum-theory... But I still feel Plum rather townish and her rather early vote on Joh gave her a minor plus point in my record....

I am too tired, sorry.

[Shadow Dancer]

Gaia as an olympian? Very unlikely. I think she was the first godess of all, together with Uranus? Or was he a titan? Doesn't matter, though. or something like that. Will do some beackground reading.

Also keep in mind that by claiming unlikely gods (not main olympians or closely associated gods/demigods such as Heracles or Persephone) you have a good chance to prevent counter claims.

I also think Andy and FF should full claim now.

So far

major FoS Plum

This is
as good as a vote, though not technically! I just want to avoid a premature quicklynch.

[Shadow Dancer]

Yeah, gaia is in fact the primal mother godess, Uranos, the sky, is one of her sons...

I say: If Plum is Gaia, than she is fucking Godmother Gaia scum (The ancient deities trying to get hold of Olympia? At least I consider a 2:2:8 lineup more likely than an SK lineup... 3+1 lineup is the most likely IMO, though). Just a random thought, most likely just bogus ;\

[Shadow Dancer]

He has to make it up first

[Shadow Dancer]

@Ooba: Now I am really curious. You definitely have to elaborate on that. Of course, Jack looks like a potential traitor right now (note: That is what he makes himself look like), but killing him over obvious scum?

[Shadow Dancer]

You contradict yourself. First you claim you tried to steal VV's power N1, then you claim you claim you used your SP N2 for the same purpose.

Why do you think your attempt on VV failed?

You also systematically avoid claiming anything that could be further verified. Had you given an item to someone in N2 we could confirm that now, instead you claim that you basically wasted your SP and claim powers of dead players that we cannot confirm, either.

Hermes is most likely genuine, but it could be scum Hermes, but that is most likely not you but your ally, who wont counter claim because you are godfather.

I'll think about a "if I trust Andrius"-theory once I heard FF'S full claim.

Right now I see a very good chance for Plum&Andrius scum.

[Shadow Dancer]

Descrining your role and powers without quoting the PM literally is sooooo hard... NOT.
Worse excuse than no excuse.

[Shadow Dancer]

Until we've got FF's full claim I'll keep polemecizing as I please

[Shadow Dancer]

Until we've gopt FF's full claim I'll keep polemicizing as I please

[Shadow Dancer]

Wow, that is sctually pretty interesting. Now comes Ooba, then I'll vote:...

At least we know for sure now, that there is on scum among FF and Andrius (though it was already very likely before...).

I do not buy Oobas claim. He's got a power that he can talk through the mod and does not use it to confirm his role in some way? I do not buy that.

I would almost say I'm back to ff+LC scum theory. Only problem with that is the lack of an Poseidon counterclaim, so it can only be 2:2:8... Then Jack would also be scum, of course, because 2:2+1:7 would be almost impossible for town, even with half a million investigations. Maybe 2:1+1:8 with NK immune Hades... Any way, that might make Jack a play for this day again, but I better wait for Ooba's claim.

@LC: Iec and me did not claim any thing because:

i) I said, I could claim more if town really mistrusts us. That is not the case, obviously.
ii) There was no night, so we could neither talk nor act in any way. Thus we do not have new relvant information for town.
iii) Revealing more of our roles does prevent us from counter claiming fake claims, because no one would claim roles or actions that where already claimed by masons. So we needed to wait for FF, Alma and Plum claiming, at least.

I still see no need to go into further detail. I'm curious, though, what Ooba has to say.

I'm most inclined towards Plum&FF scum right now, assuming setup is in fact 3+1:8...

[Shadow Dancer]

EBWODP: Not Ooba's claim, obviously, but FF'S one...

[Shadow Dancer]

I did not say we should lynch Jack. That was Oobas suggestion. I'm waiting for his post.

[Shadow Dancer]

OK, sounds really really great, sadly I do not have the time to enjoy the pleasure of reading it line by line right now.

CryMeADatAlma, can you confirm your new power?

FF, I see no better use your power right now. Just let the mod somehow confirm your role or something, so we can trust you. If it turns out true we've got nailed down Andrius and confirmed Oobas theory which ensures town victory.

Scum Persephone playing a bold gambit. Nice. Really looks like it now, still not the biggest fish, but interesting for validation reasons.

However, if we get all the affirmations (by FF and AlmaMeAData) we've got a GF handed to us on a silver plate.

Major FoS Andrius

I wanted something else to post, too, but forgot... Later...

[Shadow Dancer]

Not that I mistrust you, Ooba, but jts out of curiosity: Could you elaborate a bit on yur roles flavour, because I think I do not get it. Before your claim I thought you were Athena, godess of wisom, sending our her owls on the watch at night (or something like that), tracking other peoples movements (i.e. essentially some kind of tarcker role).

OK, Anyway:

Vote Andrius!

Definitely the ripe for the rope today.

I am sure HandMeAHandkerchief can confirm his new power.

@FF:
i) Can you use your SP only at night?
ii) Why haven't you used it, yet?
iii) I do not really get your normal. Is it that the mod tells you everything that happens to Poseidon and/or his counter?

Any way, FF could still be an investigation immune serial killer and have or have not lied about his normal power.

If we believe Plum's Gaia claim, there is no reason to assume that Zeus is in the game personally, because in that case no non-(primary-)olympian gods would be needed.

I still think Hephaistos is a more likely item creator. But SB could have been Hephaistos, so no contradiction.

[Shadow Dancer]

Not that I mistrust you, Ooba, but just out of curiosity: Could you elaborate a bit on your role's flavour, because I think I do not get it? Before your claim I thought you were Athena, godess of wisom, sending our her owls on the watch at night (or something like that), tracking other peoples movements (i.e. essentially some kind of tarcker role).

OK, Anyway:

Vote Andrius!

He's definitely ripe for the rope today.

I am sure HandMeAHandkerchief can confirm his new power.

@FF:
i) Can you use your SP only at night?
ii) Why haven't you used it, yet?
iii) I do not really get your normal. Is it that the mod tells you everything that happens to Poseidon and/or his counter?

Any way, FF could still be an investigation immune serial killer and have or have not lied about his normal power.

If we believe Plum's Gaia claim, there is no reason to assume that Zeus is in the game personally, because in that case no non-(primary-)olympian gods would be needed.

I still think Hephaistos is a more likely item creator. But SB could have been Hephaistos, so no contradiction.

[Shadow Dancer]

@FF: So we do not have to wait for the night but can confirm your claim right away. Great. I'm waiting.

Does your PM it say exactly as you state in iii) ?

[Shadow Dancer]

Oh yeah, and I'm actually Thor. lol

Lol, Andrius gave up

The only parent I knew was zeus and I will do anything he says at once.

Ooba, you have a funny flavour

I do not want anybody except confirmed masons or me hammering today.

Agreed, as always. Maybe CryingDAlmatimer can be included in that list, but it does not matter that much. I already voted, but I think Iec won't might hammering this time.

Why not have me hammer, given that if I get all three counters, we win?

That would just give you two counters (unless you've got Zeus Counter) and make you number one mafia target, possibly resulting in loss of both those counters for town.

Also I do not consider you 100% trustworthy. Poseidon SK theory is not disproven if I'm not mistaken.

[Shadow Dancer]

Andrius, FF, please stop the OTT...

[Shadow Dancer]

There we've got our day kill . Scrub all LC's scum theories... Poseidon is 100% confirmed town alligned at least, but we miss his universal role block, which means we definitely have to plan the coming night carefully.

However, I think we are nonetheless lucky, I would have expected that fate to hit Ooba much earlier...

From the flavour of it Hephaistos is scum and still alive, I think (I already had that idea before), he is most likely an item forger for scum. Alternatively he's our SK... Don't know what his normal would be in that case...
Never mind, then SB was not Hephaistos and likely not Hermes. Is SB giving Ooba Medusa's head confirmed? (I think so for IMO otherwise some one would have counter claimed giving it to him) Who else could have given it to him? Which role could that be? Perseus (Medusa's slayer)? Other thoughts?
FF's claim does

not

confirm him as Hermes, it only confirms that he had his claimed power, which is not too surprising.

Not to sure in which drawer to put Jack right now. He is either genuine recruitable townie, as he says, or he is (already recruited or form the start) scum.

We know Hades is scum.
We know Persephone is scum or Recruitable.
We can safely assume that Hephaistos is scum.
We know Joh was scum...

Unless Joh was Persephone that makes four...
Such we gain three potential lineups:
i) 2+1/1 with Persphone Jack being recruitable and one SK
ii) 3/1 with Persephone being scum from the start
iii) 3+1 with Jack being recruitable (this is already pretty hard for town, I think)

Everything else would be way too hard for town or would include a lonely Hades with the possibility to recruit Persephone, which I think is ulikely.

2:2 theory with another godfather (though not Poseidon) maybe... Hades+Persephone & Hephaistos + Joh?

Anyway, in case we've got a serial killer Hephaistos we better make sure only confirmed townies hammer so he cannot get all the counters, because that might be his wincon. Can we confirm Plum as doctor so she can protect an eventual hammerer for one night?

Nevermind, we've still got Andrius GF to dismember into tiny little pieces and grap his tiny black Hades heart...

VOTE Andrius

Still waiting for FryMeAMaster to confirm his new power, btw.

[Shadow Dancer]

Chronos wasn't Poseidon. Or isn't really dead.

I pointed out to the Mod that my role PM says that I know when Poseidon dies and his answer was basically that yes, I will know when he dies.

So pretty much Poseidon hasn't died.

F***... Now I really get panic attacks...

The only info I can get is that Poseidon is still alive and doesn't have his counter. Hmm....Chronos is listed as dead on the first page. I asked the Mod if Chronos is actually dead and he was vague about his answer.

Of course he was vague, that does not tell us anything LC is listed as

missing

on the first page, though under the "dead" cathegory. Still that could mean that he still is alive but in Hades dirty claws... Did DN specifically point out that Poseidon does not have, thus

lost

his counter? That makes it very likely that LC is really just captured.

So maybe we just witnessed Hades' SP? Any way, killing Hades seems still the best move and I cannot think of Andrius not being Hades right now...

Vote confirmed.

[Shadow Dancer]

The ground opening up could just as well be Hades. If you wanna get REAL flavory about it, Poseidon rules over earthquakes IIRC, so it could all be a ruse from LC, but I doubt that's the source.

Why would genuine town Poseidon LC use his SP, that, btw, he would, in that case, have lied about, to totally screw up his fellwo townies?

Plum as protector is meh because she's really like a refuge or something. Scum can target her to kill 2 townies in 1. She probably shouldn't use her ability anymore tbh, if it's real.

Does it work that way? In that case her only move left would be to link herself to a mobster. In that case her ability would effectively work as a bomb?

...BOMB?!?!

Wait a minute!

I think we ruled out bomb abilities in this game...

I have to read her claim again...

Hmmm... OK... She really says so... That only mean - if I am not totally mistaken... Hmm... I do not think so...

:twisted::twisted:

Back to major major FoS on Plum!!!

:twisted::twisted:

[Shadow Dancer]

What does this mean exactly:

DN won't confirm any change in Poseidon's status to FF.

?!?!

[Shadow Dancer]

Who had an interest in killing (or doing whatever to) LC right now if it wasn't Andrius' last stand? Answer me that, Andrius!

[Shadow Dancer]

DN won't tell FF whether Poseidon is dead or whether his counter was passed.

What I am up to is that this exactly contradicts FF's power claim.

[Shadow Dancer]

~A Plan~

Iec hammers Andy
ooba kills Plum
Plum hides Jack
Jack hides from Hades

Iec & SD use magic.

DS busdrives DS and FF
FF does nothing.

The result is that all the mafia are dead (Andy+Jack), including the on-the-fence one (Plum). FF also dies if he tries to kill anyone, provided that that busdrive syntax is allowed. Ooba and/or DS can probably confirm the result of that syntax, since it's their ability.

It ends with the Musketeers alive, as well as DS and FF, with one of those as a possible SK.

Plan would be aborted if Andy flipped non-scum.

Majot hole in your plan: Why would scum Plum play along and not hide some one else instead.

[Shadow Dancer]

DN told you, that Poseidon lives and his counter has been passed?!?!

Or did he tell you that he would tell FF that, if his claim was correct?

Any way, the fact that DN obviously corrected himself subsequently makes me think that he did not have that possibility on his radar while answering your PM. That could still mean FF is lying...

[Shadow Dancer]

If Plum is scum, her ability is probably total bull, anyway, and ooba will just kill scumPlum. Small loss.

Could still be roleblock or something. With Poseidon losing his counter maybe they can use his roleblock against us

[Shadow Dancer]

So you are only quoting FF quoting DN's alleged PMs and haven't spoken to DN yoursef?

[Shadow Dancer]

Only right move to do with Plum is have her target either Jack or FF and then vig plum at night.

Either we get scum Plum with that or scum Jack/FF. I see FF as a better target, there is still a slight chance Jack is telling the truth (2+1/1 lineup).

However, if you decide to consider Plum's claim earnest, how do you explain that it can work as the epitome of a

bomb

, thus contradictory to the rules?

No. I think she is straight out lying and Gaia is just to far of and only chosen to prevent counter claims.

[Shadow Dancer]

Sorry Ooba, I think you are seriously misled at the moment. The quoted post was just horrible.

Oi .. I go off for a couple of hours and we find ourselves in a ring of fire!!

No, the ring of fire only swallowed town Poseidon LC. At least we know that for sure now.

- FF is lying scum.
If LC was town-aligned, how the hell could he not be Poseidon? Why would he lie? He is trying to confuse all of us ...

I do not trust FF - al we know about him was told us by - FF! We can trust LC's investigation on him, but that does only tell us that FF is most likely investigation immune SK (my most prefered theory ATM)

Iece, I personally think you trust FF a bit too much and plum too little.

Why trust Plum?1 Because of a meta read, if there are logical reasons to mistrust her (see my post above)? Hell, no!

- Regarding Daykill
If the scum extra night did not have a night kill, the analogous double day should have a day kill for balance purposes

I think - no - I am

convinced

that you are completely on the wrong track here. I already said why I consider those pro town abilities. The vilcano incident was either Hephasitsos or Hades. I think I will work on some theories and see how that leads us...

So right now we have
2 scum (who are at three powers)

2 normals + one unused special? I do not really get at all what yo are referring to.

1 SK
5 townies

Or no SK, again I'll work on theories.

My plan
~~~~~
Lynch Hades
Kill FF/Jack in the night. Plum can protect one of us at random with her special. At worst, 2 townies die
Lynch One of them. 1 scum + three townies
Next day - 1 scum + two townies endgame

Reading back the last few pages ..

Seriously, you are working hard towards the extinction of town.

[Shadow Dancer]

SD, should we outright claims names/normals/specials? I don't see a reason not to, and it might help ooba analyze things a bit. We don't have to say whose is whose, but ye know.

Waiting for Ooba's next post and AlmaCryers confirmation of his new power. Meanwhile I am working on some theories (I do not want to rely on Ooba).

But after that I think doing claims cannot hurt any more. I thin every one besides us has basically full claimed, so there is no reason to withhold information that could help town discussion.

Let me do the claim, please, I've already prepared a neat post for that occasion.

[Shadow Dancer]

SD said he didn't have the time to read my case line-by-line.[/quote ]
I am pretty sure there was also a "right now" in that statement. Meanwhile I dedicated quite some time to this game and I will read your case and claims again whaile working on my own theories. Still I think you tend to overlook a lot of space for errors in your explanations.

This sucks, I really wanted to win with the mafia. There's really no point to being recruitable otherwise. What are you supposed to do, try and scumhunt when you could be force switched any night?

But with joh's flip and andrius's flake out it looks like Iec and SD really are masons, as preposterous as that is.

Don't ask me to contribute in a big way, it's a technical victory at best.

I even buy that. It pretty much explains, why Jack so willingly distanced from his case on me and Iec on D1.

Still, Jack is like a grenade without safety pin...

[Shadow Dancer]

Only right move to do with Plum is have her target either Jack or FF and then vig plum at night.

Either we get scum Plum with that or scum Jack/FF. I see FF as a better target, there is still a slight chance Jack is telling the truth (2+1/1 lineup).

However, if you decide to consider Plum's claim earnest, how do you explain that it can work as the epitome of a

bomb

, thus contradictory to the rules?

No. I think she is straight out lying and Gaia is just to far of and only chosen to prevent counter claims.

OK... Reading that post again I do not even get what I meant myself... New try:

Only right move to do with Plum is have her target either Jack or FF and then vig plum at night.

Either we get scum Plum with that or scum Jack/FF. I see FF as a better target, there is still a slight chance Jack is telling the truth (2+1/1 lineup).

However, if you decide to consider Plum's claim earnest, how do you explain that her power can work as the epitome of a

bomb

and thus acts contradictory to the rules?

No. I think she is straight out lying and Gaia is just to far off and only chosen to prevent counter claims.

[Shadow Dancer]

Thanks, CMAlmaStrokers.

My best bet is Andy-Plum-Joh theory right now with Plum as potential serial killer and Andrius as GF and Jack as a recruitable.

However, if you decide to consider Plum's claim earnest, how do you explain that it can work as the epitome of a bomb, thus contradictory to the rules?

This is probably the best point I've heard against Plum. If she protects Poseidon and she gets targeted - who gets the counter is in confusion is what you're trying to say right? I am not sure but I guess the law of proximate cause would be involved - The counter goes to the person who made the kill. If this is not what you meant, you'll have to explain the "contradictory to the rules part".

What I refering to is one of the following situation:

i) Plum targets some one (scum) with a counter, that one uses a killing ability against Plum, both die - what's happening to the counter?

ii) Same situation, but this time plum's got the counter, she pulls down her killer with her - again: who gets the counter?

Remember we already had the same situation with VV - and we lynched him for it and

it was indeed a made up claim

.

Iec, are you online? If you give your OK I'll post our full claim now.

[Shadow Dancer]

OK, Andrius, you want us to believe you? You know all odds are against you? You say you are not Hades? And you know you will be lynched, no matter what? Still it does not sound as if you are town (horribly complex wincon?). If you have something to claim then do it. Chances are it will at least help us after your death. If you are in fact not town alligned, I do not care what you do, anyway. Unless you do a full and true claim about your role, your powers, your targets

and

your scum partners - which you won't do...

To make it short: You are the lynchee, claim if you have something to claim!

[Shadow Dancer]

Wow, you're cool. Not that I brought up a major point against you. And you just decide to ignore it. I sense cold blood.

[Shadow Dancer]

I'm V/LA over ther weekend, too. Will announce it tomorrow. I propose we all relax over the weekend, do our last claims if we have any, offer some theories, and do a quick lynch on Sunday.

Everyone prepare - huge WOT ahead...

[Shadow Dancer]

THE GREAT REVELATION
=================

Now, my fellow townies, time is ripe for you to learn the truth. The truth about your fellow masons and the truth about some of the mysterius events that haunted this, our divine town.

foreword: author's notes

You already know that Iec and I are masons and thus basically share all our knowledge and powers. I will claim everything, our role names, our powers, our specials, our hitherto actions.
Yet what I won't reveal is who is who, whose power is whose who of us did which actions exactly and so forth. We want mafia to keep guessing a little bit more in times to come.
Furthermore, I may concede quite a little freedom in my descriptions of flavour - all in the sense of my literary liberty for as we all meanwhile know that powers have no flavour in their description and role PMs are rather vague by their very nature. I'll do my very best to stay true to DN's and the old greeks' ambitions in my narration, though.

chapter 1: origin

Leto, the unseen, daughter of the titans, one day revealed her hidden beauty to Zeus, king of gods. Bored on his throne the supreme god had never resisted the appeal of a beautiful woman and it was bound to happen that Leto became pregnant.
Hera, sister and wife of Zeus(!), was aghast to find her marriage sacrileged in such an arrant way and chased poor Leto over half the earth and back, banning her from giving birth on any land or island or any other solid surface of this world.
But nonetheles brave Leto gave birth - on the floating island of Delos - to twins, brother and sister, henceforth known as Apollon, god of daylight, and Artemis, goddess of night shadow. And from their very childhood on those two were besotted with one another and adored to talk all night long while hunting wild animals...
And never would any of them ever allow any harm to the other one or to any one of their parents.

chapter 2: The fall of Zeus

But one day a horrid event struck the both twins when their father was reported dead by unknown means. They immediatelly abandoned their hunt and returned to Olymp to assist their fellow olympians in this dreadful hour.

chaper 3: Fatal confusion

But once they reached Olympia they had to realize that not only did they not know which evil was behind the dastard murder but that all the gods had not seen each other for aeons and no one was able recognize any of their comrades.
But they had themselves and with trust and the bravery of despair in their hearts they decided to descent down to earth to evnege their father in a last and bloody battle, even if it would be the last thing they'd ever do.
Oh were they happy to find one among them lying and cursing and generally acting suspicioulsy, only to realyize, after giving the wretched one short shrift, they had only massacred poor innocent aphrodite in a fit of hystery...

chapter 3: Dark eternal night

After witnessing this uncomely event and expecting further ruthless deeds of the evil doers among them in the cover of the night the two siblings decided that they had to stop this madness, that something had to be done. And promptly they took action, using their power over the day-night-cycle to call upon another night, and so it happened. But it was not a normal night as before. In this divine night all the heinous betrayers where put into a deep yet restless sleep while Apoll and Artemis sat on the watch, examining the hearts, reading the minds of two of their brethren, finding them innocent...

chapter 4: The deed pays off

And the other gods had been busy, too, calling their divine powers on one another, and together, with their sister Athena on their side, they could track down one of the traitors and isolate the other ones. Unlucky for themselves the twins had to reveal parts of their identity to the other gods, though.

chapter 5: day without end

Unflinching after that success, but also affraid of dying in the upcoming night, the two godly twins agreed to once again thwart the dark plans of their antagonists and not grant them the peace and cover of another night for their wrongdoings. And once again they called upon their divine gifts to stall the sun waggon and grant their brethren another day free of fear, another trial to catch another evildoer.
And they started to pin down one another, confessing their very souls in the process. But some of them were lying and one was found guilty beyond doubt. His fate seemed sealed, but then unforseen events emerged...

chapter 6: Relapse

The ground opened with fire and swallowed their fellow god and leader Poseidon, leaving behind a cut to the quirk divine town, confused and paranoid. Whom can they trust now, who are the remaining traitors and how can they be stopped. But no matter what future might reveal, Apollon and Artemis will stand back to back on their fellow deities' side until their last breath, defending Olympia's throne, avenging their father's death, hunting down the gutless betrayers to the last and spill their blood to the last drop. Revenge is ours!

To be continued...

[Shadow Dancer]

tl;dr

We are Apollo and Artemis.
We skipped D2 to make the kill-less N2.
We skipped N3.

Relevant point being that the nightskip wasn't from scum, as ooba had hypothesized.

There was some other (minor) way this affected ooba's theory IIRC, but I can't recall how.

This way it sounds sooooo boring ;P

Happy scumday, partner.

[Shadow Dancer]

I officially announce about 48 hours V/LA (maybe a bit more, but I'll try to be back on time).

Go, lynch Andrius in the meantime, would be great if I could reenter at nightbreak.

Remeber: Only Iec or Ooba hammers. If Ooba really wants it - go ahead. Remember that the hammerer is most likely doomed to die, though.

Night plan: Plum target FF (if she's teling the truth) and Ooba vigs Plum. Worts case is that Plum told tthe truth and both die, but we get scum either way (feel free to replace FF with Jack, if you really want, but I still think there is a good chance that Jack told the truth about his role, and if Andrius is Hades he might no longer be recruitable by mafia). Any way, next day's lynch is FF or Jack, who ever may remain.
Ater that, I am very optimistic regarding this, all that remains to be done is claiming counters... Good luck to us.

I think town has won this, but mafia may have something really ugly up their sleeves. But that is totally unpredictable and thus I don't bother much right now.

[Shadow Dancer]

Wait, I think DataBus can drive the hammer, right? So include that in my plan.

[Shadow Dancer]

Back from V/LA.

If FF was 3rd party, i.e. most likely SK, but definitely anti-town, he would also have gooten a safe fake claim. Both double Hermses claim and Joh's Poseidon claim make me think DN did not Provide fake claims. Also with the uncertaimty off who are the 12 olympians in this game (as they are not always the same in generalo in greek mythology) it is nopt that difficult to make up a relatively safe fake claim. Gaia still seems to far fetched, though.

If Plum is scum, she most likely did not claim her true abilities, so there is no need to bother about the effect of vigging her in that case.

I also think the possibility of a 2+1/1 setup wasn't recognized enough. That would also explain why DN allowed so many investigation powers in the setup - with SK, GF and recruit there are (or at least may likely be) basically 3 out of 4 mafia investigation immune.
Would be quite bastardly, though.

Plum claimed the folowing powers:
- She hides some one, if she dies that one dies, too, if not, the other one neither...
- Her special also protects the hidden person from all other powers (sounds like a bad excuse of an SP for me, another point I have my doubts about)

I'll read Ooba's claim again to find out who of the both of us is overlooking the more fatal things

[Shadow Dancer]

I read your claim again, ooba, and still am not any wiser than before

We know Jack is either (i) scum, playing some kind of gambit (still I do not have a really convincing explanation for the timing of his claim in that case) or (ii) genuine about his role, in which case I do not really get his move, either, since the best play in that situation would have been to stay hidden as long as possible, until under serious pressure to be lynched or a complete mass claim. Also he said (and I think that's believeble) that he really doesn't like the idea of winning as town. In that case it was just pure confusion and desperacy.

Upon reread of Jack I am just really really seriously confused.
I can naither see straight out mafia nor town in his play. Him being seriously confused and overstrained by the sitiation in which scum would be partners were seemingly dying like flies seems the best situation right now.
His hard core tunneling against StrokeAlmaUntilHeCrys speaks in favour of Ooba's theory, though. On the other tunneling against a suspected SK was the best way to build himself a townie history without the need to frame eventual scum partners.

My suggestion:
- Ooba vigs Plum. Still the best play to either confirm Plum or kill scum Plum.
- Plum, if genuine, targets Jack, if we cannot confirm Andrius being Hades before nightfall, if we can confirm Hades as dead, she targets FF instead.
- AlmaInDaRiver just plays the happy guessing game with any remaining scum. Announcing his action beforehand would just allow scum to work around it.
- If everything works all right, we (or maybe you without me) should be enough townies tomorrow to lynch whoever remains of the suspects Jack/Plum/FF (if Plum flips scum, decision between Jack and FF remains, though, but we will also have lots of new information by then).

I just hope scum/possibly SK cannot perform more than two kills...

Greatest threat seems a roleblock against Ooba ATM, something CMAlmaR should keep in mind...

[Shadow Dancer]

That he claimed without much pressure on him kind of suggests that he wanted to be recruited.

But telling every one "hi there, recruit me!" Would have basically made us lynch him instantly. He had to say he wanted to win with town to keep focus elsewhere.

But with Hades now as good as dead it seems he sees himself chiseld out of the chance to be lynched at all.

Still we most likely need to get rid of him, but I do not find him any scummier than FF or Plum right now...
I haven't reread FF so far, though. Maybe that changes my mind... Tomorrow...

[Shadow Dancer]

Back from V/LA.
I consider LC an FF both trustworthy now.

Jack and Andrius are identified scum.

I want to lynch Jack now. Who wants the hammer?

FoD Jack

I think you cannot vig any more, CalMAR, please explain yourself.
Why did you not busdrive me with some scum as Iec had proposed?

Andrius is most certainly lying. Of course. He's scum. Jack stealing the hammer must have been needed for something. If he wented to maintain a counter he would not have needed to expose himself if the Eris claim was true.
If Plum's death (random death, lightning rod, what strange power ever) would have occured any way he would also not have needed to hammer...

I think Plum was genuine scum.

That pretty much eliminates the possibility of an SK for me... If not Plum or Joh was the SK, but then their allignment would most likely not have been revealewd as "mafia"...

[Shadow Dancer]

Oh, OK, IC, I shall hammer, if you want, Jack is L-?

[Shadow Dancer]

And @ CryUsAnOcean: I assume that you want to use your SP on Andrius. But:
- I thought you already use that on SB in N1!?!?
- why did you not use it

last

night?

[Shadow Dancer]

@LC: Could you elaborate a bit more in detail what heppened to you? And why were you released today?

[Shadow Dancer]

Well... I see scum drowning in their bogus...

I am really curious to find out the glimpse of truth in it - but that has to wait until after game chatter...

Now I want Jack hanging and torn into pieces - that bastard killed my loyal sibling and partner in broad daylight and now he's got the nerves to openly defame him...

But first:

CMAR and LC: Please answer my questions. I do not want to lynch as long as important matters are unexplained, no matter by whom and how marginal.

@mod: I'd like an official vot count before I vote/hammer.

[Shadow Dancer]

I can vaguely remember that Ooab mentioned his special would only last till his death, so I guess that's how you got your power back. But I need to ISO Ooba first for verification. I'll do it tomorrow.

However, the point is that Iec proposed that I should not target any one (and I did not). So bus driving me with scum might have saved Oobas life. What was your intention to drive scum with scum?

[Shadow Dancer]

D*** f****** S***!

You fools! F***** jerks. How could you? Were you blind? Can't you see scum trying to bait you? Do you think I did not have good reasons for withholding my vote?! I knew Jack had Iec's counter. I asked LC about his night to find out if he still had ]i]his[/i] counter, because I had at least two good reasons to assume he'dlost it:
i) Just temporary withdrawing some one from the game has no benefit for scum- if not in a LYLO situation - and revealing that one as confirmed town makes it even a pro town skill. There had to be something more behind that super power to make it a sacum/Hades worthy SP.
ii) Ooba already surmised very plausibly that Andrius Hades would be a power thief - what would suggest itself more than him also being able to steal a counter?

Remember the following:

Even with all scum identified there is

no reason

to stop using your brains!

You knew who town were, you told me to hammer. You knew I wanted some question answered first. Why - WHY - could you not wait until

all the

town agreed on a plan? Do you know what no.1 reason for town losing is?:

impatience

You could not even wait one RL day for a lynch - before there was even discussed what happened in the night before...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So... Now I can calm down.

Congratulations Jack and Andrius. This was a bravura in manipulating a bunch of village idiots into their own demise.

Ooba played brilliantly for thge most part.

Iec did well, too, but should not have exposed our relation that openly.

LC was't bad, either, as far as I can remember.

PeeMyOwnBlood: Sorry, but every single of your night choices was abysmal for town.

FF had a horrible performance, if he showed up at all.

Plum and Joh did a good job in mimicing innocent townies - but their claims were just horrible from my point of view.

Every one else died early, I think....

@DN: PLease reveal the complete lineup to us: player - allignment - role - power - SP - eventual items or counters obtained. I can't wait to learn about that.

[Shadow Dancer]

And I was right about Plum. I speculated taht she was some kind of lesser lightning rod/kill absorber for Andrius... I just didn't come up with the term "bodyguard" for that.

I still don't understand why Jack claimed Persphone the moment he did it. What was your motive?

[Shadow Dancer]

Still... Everything Jack did seemed to be oddly timed. He was always flowing just below my lynch priority and then he did something even scummier than before... In retrospect that tactic seems quite nice - I never really found a theory that this game seemed to fit in - because I never found a really plausible explanation for Jack's behaviour. I did not point out many of my assumptions, that seem to be true right now, as Plum being body guard, because I could not satisfactory integrate Jack into my theories. I don't think it was planned, though. But I will definitely remember this as a nice tactic for scum play with one's back to the wall... Just turn town to a bunch of freaked out chickens... Then let the headless bastards run into the direction you wnat them to...

NKing Ooba and daykilling Iec was as flawless as it could have been, too...

However, in any normal game mafia would have lost in that situation - but in any normal setup there would't have been such massive follow the cops syndrome, either.

I'll wait for DN's revelation before I post my final analysis...

[Shadow Dancer]

Still... Everything Jack did seemed to be oddly timed. He was always flowing just below my lynch priority and then he did something even scummier than before... In retrospect that tactic seems quite nice - I never really found a theory that this game seemed to fit in - because I never found a really plausible explanation for Jack's behaviour. I did not point out many of my assumptions, that seem to be true right now, as Plum being body guard, because I could not satisfactory integrate Jack into my theories. I don't think it was planned, though. But I will definitely remember this as a nice tactic for scum play with one's back to the wall... Just turn town to a bunch of freaked out chickens... Then let the headless bastards run into the direction you wnat them to...

NKing Ooba and daykilling Iec was as flawless as it could have been, too...

However, in any normal game mafia would have lost in that situation - but in any normal setup there would't have been such massive follow the cops syndrome, either.

I'll wait for DN's revelation before I post my final analysis...

[Shadow Dancer]

There was no way out for you, or so it seemed. How could you have played better? Maybe you had not planned it out, but in the end your playstyle turned out to be effective.

You were lucky that the other townies rather wanted to be baited into a rushed lynch then answering my questions and hearing my reasoning... Everything about Jack screemed "Lynch me!!!" and that was a sure signfor me that lynching Jack would likely be a bad move for town. I also knew about the Zeus counter, of course. And I was sceptic about LC's dis- and reappearence and all that, for good reasons as it turned in fact out.

LC: Did you know you lost your counter (same question goes to FF)? And if you did, why did you not tell us?

@KillMeAnAlma: What the heck were you thinking? Puting Jack at L-1 without announcing it and obviously without reading and understandng my previous post...

Vote worst player of the game: CMAlmaR

[Shadow Dancer]

Still their was such a huge pile of things that needed to be scrutiniozed first... Thinking is what wins games for town... Seriously, they were all so overhasty with voting and lynching...

[Shadow Dancer]

Learn to invent safe claims that do not blatantly contradict the rules If you had not claimed a really far off godess with a quasi bomb skill I would not have been so very suspicious of you as I were.

[Shadow Dancer]

Jugded by pure sympathy factor I'd never have suspected for Plum

DN, what about the lineup revelation?

[Shadow Dancer]

Damn it, being on the online list does not mean I'm reading the thread. ASK IF I'M READY BEFORE THAT.
I came back from an exhausting weekend, I did not even vot count.

OK, my fault, I should have just posted the following:

ALL UNVOTE!!! NOW!!! IMEDIATELLY!!!

OK; I'll make that my standard post whenever I rejoin a game after some days of absence

All the dead people knew that somthing horrible was going on

[Shadow Dancer]

Damn, I alredy ragedeleted my role PM... But somehow Iec's got the nicer text

@Andrius: I'm confused - your SP description does not state that you steal eventual counters with it.

Do we know what happened to Ooba's vig attempt in the last night, by the way. That's one of the crucial questions that still remain unanswered for me.

Also I'd like to know whom every one voted in the pre game vote, especially whom scum voted.
I voted Joh, because he had the strangest name, IMO

Couldn't DN just post all his stuff?

[Shadow Dancer]

I also have found another interesting issue: What would have happened if Alma had had a counter a self vigged himself?

[Shadow Dancer]

I also have found another interesting issue: What would have happened if Alma had had a counter abd self vigged himself?

[Shadow Dancer]

DN?!?!

[Shadow Dancer]

Don't worry, Plum, you are a cute little puppy.

My picture was the ugliest:


Seriously, and I do not even know which language the stupid text on it is (it's not greek...)...

Could have at least been this one:


No stupid text and nicer colors...

But luckily it was not this one:


Had he use it we would probably still fish in sacred saga land

[Shadow Dancer]

Happy scumday, Almaster.

@DN: And what would have happened in the case of a self kill of a counter carrier?

[Shadow Dancer]

WTF?! There it is. The flavour in his power. I would never have thought this...

Hi, VV, it's nice you did not forget about this game.

So what laguage is that anyway? And what's the translation?

Ares looks really crazy

[Shadow Dancer]

Very interesting, thanks VV.

Why was VV's fake claim a huge pain for you, Jack? Is there anything better for scum than a townie who is straight out lying?

[Shadow Dancer]

I killed Zeus. Seriously. Was just a hunting accident, however. How do you think mis sis' got that nice counter, eh?

But of course Poseidon and Hades, those two posers, could not stand it that they were to cowardly to it themselves. And now they are arguing about who the best godking killer is... So lame... So lame...

[Shadow Dancer]

I killed Zeus. Seriously. Was just a hunting accident, however. How do you think my sis' got that nice counter, eh?

But of course Poseidon and Hades, those two posers, could not stand it that they were to cowardly to do it themselves. And now they are arguing about who the best godking kille

[Shadow Dancer]

Damn it, can't I ever post without typos

I killed Zeus. Seriously. Was just a hunting accident, however. How do you think my sis' got that nice counter, eh?

But of course Poseidon and Hades, those two posers, could not stand it that they were to cowardly to do it themselves. And now they are arguing about who the best godking killer is... So lame... So lame...