Mini 936 - BANG! - Game Over

[ElectricBadger]

Confirm!

[ElectricBadger]

However no talk about any flavor text is aloud.

I shall not mention that mine is banana flavored, then.

First question on my mind is whether we should claim our Life Points; it would be good to avoid any surprise deaths, I think, just as I'd want a Hated townie to claim that.

Thoughts?

[ElectricBadger]

I've never played Bang! before but the wiki article - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bang! - seemed pretty thorough; I suggest people read that to sort out some confusion. Basically, the outlaws are trying to kill the sheriff; deputies are trying to keep him alive; and the renegade is trying to kill everyone else. Instead of voting, we shoot each other.

I assume the bullet at Kast was a Rule 9 or the Renegade was adjusted. Even those seem like they'd be harsh, but I can't imagine the outlaws can shoot without being seen. Post 15 indicates that it couldn't have been a card, or it would have been played in public.

hai guys sorry, I didn't know the game started :/

Hm? You're sorry for not posting, but you don't say anything else, even though there were several things to respond to?

I think we need to have a bullet fly periodically to prevent Rule 9, and this seems like as good a target as any in my range.

Playing Mustang on myself:

Mustang: Allows you to shot a player 1 farther away from you. (this card stays next to you).

Shoot: McGriddle

Given the random role assignment and absence of keeping the Sheriff alive in the example town PM, I don't think town will necessarily lose if the Sheriff dies.

Not sure what you mean about random role assignment? As for PM, presumably it would be contained in the Outlaws' roles. In any case, as you're the only confirmed townie I think it behooves us to keep you alive, even if just to avoid infighting.

-I don't think mass claiming hit points will be that useful. If scum choose to lie, we won't find out unless we are trying to kill that person anyway. If town as a whole agrees to kill someone, that person should claim hit points.

If they lie, we'll definitely keep shooting 'til they're dead. I'm much more concerned about people being unexpectedly dead than unexpectedly alive; the classic "oops, I was just exerting pressure!" excuse for a townie hammer. Perhaps only claims from people with less than the typical 6 life? And as mentioned, definitely not Kast.

And yes, I am town.

Well, as long as you say so.

[ElectricBadger]

@EB: Why McGriddle and not someone one square away from you for the random shot?

My shot wasn't random.

Hm? You're sorry for not posting, but you don't say anything else, even though there were several things to respond to?

I think we need to have a bullet fly periodically to prevent Rule 9, and this seems like as good a target as any in my range.

@EB-
-I'm guessing it is rule 9 and FS is "trying to be coy" again.
It seems unlikely that a renegade would take early potshots at the Sheriff.

I would think that too, but it also seems strange to have random bullets for inactivity 2.5 hours after the game started. It's a solid case of Nothing Makes Sense to me.

Revealing everyone's hit points seems like it will help scum figure out which townies to focus on and kill first.

True, and fair nuff. The shooting here is definitely a little different from normal voting.

That's because I just got here and didn't have enough time to read through everything. I can now though. I am still really confused with this game but I am learning.

1. Find scum
2. Shoot them

Is there anything specific that confuses you? If so, ask - would be nice to have some real reasons for discussion. Several players are hiding behind walls of professed ignorance but not doing anything to resolve it.

[ElectricBadger]

@EB-
How does McGriddle differ from KMD?

Not liking KMD's play so far, but it's not hypocrisy at least.

[ElectricBadger]

I'm so lost...

...sigh.

What are you confused by? I really don't understand how this setup is all that complex. Your main task remains the same as in any mafia game - FIND SCUM. Why aren't you at least trying to do that?

[ElectricBadger]

Cards: we start with cards, which are simply one-use abilities. You can see examples posted already, and presumably some in your role pm. You can't have more than 4. You get more when we kill scum, I think.

Penalties: not completely sure. The sheriff probably loses something if he kills a townie (he does in the original game, at least). We can't discuss any specific penalties per rule #24, so don't worry too much about it is my opinion: if you don't know you weren't meant to.

Make sense? Any other questions?

[ElectricBadger]

The only player in range of both those targets is animorpherv1. If they aren't a mod tool then he's the attacker.

I'd argue we have to shoot within 24hrs of each other shot.

That still doesn't explain the first shot being 2.5 hours after the game began, but it's possible. Means that farside is after very quick days, though....

I propose we wait another 24 hours with no shots, and see what happens. Another random shot out of would be informative, and I think is worth the risk of its hitting a townie.

As for weakening each other, I think it has potential although I get the impression we heal up at night.

[ElectricBadger]

I've never played nor heard of the game until joining this one, but the wiki gave me the general gist of it.

Am pondering the circle thing. I have some concern that if we spread out our bullets too much we'll run out of killing power and have to wait for the deadline or random bullets to finish someone off (VT post has 4 bullets v. 6 life). Although there seem to be enough mustangs that may not be an issue.

[ElectricBadger]

Page 4, Crazy being shot the same way as Kast (unmarked gun) makes me think Crazy is likely town. Well, assuming that Kast is confirmed.

I don't think we should assume scum won't shoot each other, just as they might vote each other in a regular game. An early bus isn't out of the question.

Electric, Post 84, could anyone who played a Mustang have taken those shots or if it still Animorph even after you factor Mustangs in? Or is there a chance scum can shoot anyone maybe? Or scum next to Crazy saw the shot on Kast and wanted to set up the argument you are making? Too many possibilities to just assume Animorph shot Kast and Crazy.

Anon was awaiting replacement during the first shot at least, so easyjo is actually the only player I think is proven not responsible. He also didn't play his mustang until after the second shot. No other single player seems in range of both shots.

Possibilities:
-Scum can shoot anyone. This alone would reveal them instantly, however, so it would have to be coupled with
-Scum can shoot without declaring it. This seems like an insanely powerful tool, though - just as having scum vote privately would be during a normal mafia game.

I think we're being shot at by the renegade. With scum knowing their fellows it makes some sense to have an invisibly shooting renegade, as it would allow him to act against town without outing himself to scum.

The only question in my mind is whether the renegade would likewise be given the ability to shoot at anyone. If so, the pattern - especially the last shot - may be an attempt to mislead a kill onto ani. If not, ani's comment clearly shows he didn't understand that the targets would point to him as the only possible suspect so it's believable he made the mistake.

Incidentally, ani posted immediately before the 2nd and 3rd shots (although not the first).

Also, the odds of 2 of 3 random shots being at the sheriff, our key player, seem low enough to discount this as a mod instrument.

Animorph's "Just in case Crazy is town" comment looks more like town Animorph than scum Animorph.

Actually, his assumption that Crazy is town there and easy assumption in 103 that the shooting isn't a mod device both reek of scum to me.

IMO the evidence is good enough, particularly on D1, to gun down ani. That said, I'm not in range of him and can't take any action.

Please prod Dr. Cyanide.

I'm really not sure what to think of Darox at the moment. I don't like the sudden move, but it would be idiotic for an outlaw to so blatantly gun down a deputy. I can see the possibility of its being a severe bussing attempt, sorta, or just frustrated town.

[ElectricBadger]

Someone shoot Darox a few more times, please. If he's gonna try and kill me, I may as well try and kill him.

Any reason other than OMGUS?

Any commentary on anything in the game not directly related to yourself? S/A the random shots, a round of shooting, claims, etc?

[ElectricBadger]

Why do extra bullets imply scum? Feel free to answer sans-snark.

And I assume the LP -1 means -1 to your total. That, or this is more a House on the Hill sort of game, what with the zombie cowboys. ...Actually, zombie cowboys should be my next theme game.

[ElectricBadger]

Again a shot after ~24 hours...and again within range of Ani.

If Dr. Cyanide is an outlaw, it would be really good to know that as it would either tell us that Darox is unlikely to be an outlaw, or that outlaws don't know who each other are.

*Shrugs* I got ammo left, if you're saying you want him dead. He'd be my second pick, although I think Ani is the best bet for scum today.

[ElectricBadger]

I have no idea whom replaced Anon, so

shoot: Crazy

easjo682

Anon

- Kit Carlson

Also clearly didn't bother to ISO Anon before shooting him, let alone try to scum hunt.

[ElectricBadger]

Um, Anon never posted in the game.

Exactly. Why would you shoot someone not even in the game? If you'd tried to do an iso, this would have been obvious to you.

If you didn't have a clue who it was, then you had no idea they hadn't been shot too, so the yawetag excuse just means you wanted an excuse to avoid shooting at him.

I fial

Yes.

[ElectricBadger]

So, basically you think the mod is lying that I can shoot, yawetag's my scumbuddy, and I'm lying.

Only the last two. I don't really think your ability to shoot normally is proof of anything, is all (it seems like a really obvious out if farside didn't take it into account).

[ElectricBadger]

Ooo fancy fonts ftw!

Darox's flip doesn't change much for me; Ani is my top suspect, and Cyanide to a much lesser extent.

[ElectricBadger]

Do you suspect Dr. C is a townie?
-If not, why would you care whether Dr. C died?

Now that you know Darox is town, what do you think of Dr. C?

Is this directed at me?

[ElectricBadger]

Well...if it is, I think you misunderstood my comment. Cyanide is one of my two suspects for scum, but I don't think he's nearly as certain as Animorph, because several bits of evidence indicate Ani is the mystery shooter.

Evidence against Cyanide at this point IMO: 1. OMGUS attack was bad; 2. BS reasons to imply Darox was scummy were bad. Good reasons, but nothing so certain as the range indicator on Ani and the mystery shots.

I care if Cyanide dies because it means Ani isn't dying. Although I guess we can just kill him tomorrow, so maybe it's not a huge issue.

Darox's flip just reiterates Cyanide's poor reasons for the OMGUS attack.

[ElectricBadger]

Animorph is obvtown who is being set up by shots flying in his range.

Explain your reasoning. WIFOM doesn't indicate obvtown, especially when the pattern was established before any public comments were made.

[ElectricBadger]

I think someone has set up ani. There are obviously cards that allow you to shoot anyone, and it would make sense for a scum to attempt to make him look suspicious. For that reason, it's best to look at someone a distance away from the action.

Mod has stated repeatedly that all cards are played publicly, so that's not it: it would require the shooter have the innate ability to shoot privately AND additional range for it to be anyone but Ani.

And again, what reason do you have other than WIFOM?

[ElectricBadger]

Yaw being shot at.

How on earth did you miss that? -mystery shooter, mod announcement, lots of discussion about it....

[ElectricBadger]

In short, I have no other reason to clear ani. It's all WIFOM at this point. Personally, though, it would be stupid to attack the sheriff so early and so obviously.

Maybe stupid to attack the sheriff - although we don't know win conditions - but someone did (I don't think 4 shots that tightly together is random) so that's not really applicable. However, that he played the first Missed on Kast so it may have been a simple ploy to get townie cred (which is, in fact, the ONLY reason I see for the shot).

Ani didn't realize that the shot pattern indicated he was the only potential shooter, so the argument he wouldn't be obvious doesn't apply either.

I won't claim there's no way it's fallible, I'm just inclined to think it's as good as we could possibly get for a first lynch. If nothing else, we figure out something about the mechanics of the shooting.

[ElectricBadger]

I have a shot flying at Dr. C right now. We'll see if there's any more mystery shot within the next hour. If none, then I'm pretty sure it's just rule 9 with some coincidental random targets. If there is no mystery shot, then I would like to see some other shots placed every 12 hours or so just to make sure we don't get random bullets rained on us anymore

I'm not as inclined to list the shots as random yet (the first one was way too early for a penalty v. inactivity, and if they were such then logically farside would say so to inspire more activity, not play coy and make us waste time trying to test it), but I agree it would be nice not to have them if they are; and if not, to force the shooter to either stop firing or break the pattern.

Therefore,

Shoot: Cyanide

[ElectricBadger]

Looks like a different mechanic than the mystery shots...3 at once, and particularly as they hit right away, so I'm even more confused now. Unless one of the mechanics was the outlaws and the other was the renegade?

[ElectricBadger]

Well...not rule 9 then, or at least that was well before 24 hours even without the punches.

I believe that confirms this as a player-driven attack; if it were someone trying to set up ani then I can't imagine they would target him. Only logical reason to shoot morph is to alleviate suspicion, and only logical reason for that is if it's morph or a buddy of his.

Only attack I've got, and the liquor to alleviate the effects on the rest of you:

Play Howitzer

Howitzer: Play this card to shoot at all players in the game.

Play Hard Liquor

Hard Liquor: each player may forfeit his drawing phase to regain 1 life point

[ElectricBadger]

If Outlaws control whatever it was that just attacked AM, I don't think it at all likely that they would use such an ability on a teammate instead of the Sheriff. Either they are unable to use it on the Sheriff (out of range, directly prohibited, other?) or it probably isn't Outlaw controlled (maybe a Renegade).

For reasons I don't want to go into (in case I'm wrong) I suspect the outlaws have to kill the sheriff last. This also matches the game rules, iirc.

[ElectricBadger]

Yes. I don't have a Bang card, I think Ani needs to be dead, and no one else seems likely to finish him.

[ElectricBadger]

either McGriddle doesn't want cyanide to get close to death because they're outlaw mates or because McGriddle is town and wants to keep all people close to an even footing
or he had a problem with darox's actions

Why on earth are you answering for him?

[ElectricBadger]

I thought the question asked was directed at me seeing as it was directly under a quote of mine

Bleh...I skimmed over the quote and misread it, my bad, it was indeed addressed to you.

Looking forward to hearing Potter's take on the game so far.

Potter and easyjo are now both confirmed non-mystery-shooters, barring that being a general scum ability.

Yawetag, you're coasting. Who's scum? You haven't identified a single suspect yet.

[ElectricBadger]

I wouldn't say coasting. I'm still trying to get used to a non-normal setup, so it's taking some time to get my feet wet. Because of that, trying to find a suspect is more difficult for me.

But you haven't made any attempt to find a suspect at all; game mechanics completely aside, you've done nothing to pressure other players.

I don't think ani's suspect. It appears someone's tried to frame him, causing the recent barrage of attacks.

This is all you've done this game: dismissed every suspect based on WIFOM reasoning:

too obvscum to be scum, it must be a setup.

In the face of regular attacks on the sheriff and other players you've done nothing but drag your feet and delay, completely unconcerned about the threat. Where's your anxiety about the sheriff? Where's your desperation to find the shooter? Where's any glimmer that you're fighting for town and not just passing time waiting for players to be killed off?

My only thought is that it's people sitting near him, possibly next to him. If I had to choose a target right now, I'd go for eas, simply because he's at that location. By getting rid of ani, it puts him directly next to the sheriff, giving an easy spot to take him out.

That's stupid on two levels. The first shot was aimed AT the sheriff, so it's obviously not necessary to remove Ani to put the shooter in range; and for the first two shots Anon was being replaced - there was nobody playing in that spot to fire said shots.

That was either complete incompetence at scumhunting or the feeblest attempt to manufacture a case I've seen yet. Is there any real reason for suspicion of easy, or was it entirely made up?

[ElectricBadger]

*facepalms*

Bye.

[ElectricBadger]

@All-
Tbh, DocPotter's shooting spree on easjo very strongly looks like scum who knows he's dead and wants to take down a deputy along with himself

This. The complete lack of explanation as to why he shot at eas looks like scum just trying to go down shooting. Stating the weak case looks like an afterthought, and I've got a fairly town read on eas anyways.

[ElectricBadger]

I have a hunch.

What's your hunch?

Do you think Potter is scum?

What do you think of his shots towards eas?

[ElectricBadger]

Also forgot to ask this:Eas, why did you play the dynamite?

[ElectricBadger]

There's no need to kill eas to reduce their ranges, if that's the setup.

That said, I see eas-town as an obvious scum target since his spot was absent during some of the first shots.

Wow Kast, the Mod says you are town and you still misrep like scum.

Potter-town would be much more useful finding scum than calling the one proven townie suspicious.

I'm still waiting for a decent explanation why you went ballistic on eas - first, why you felt the need to completely unload on him, and second, why you chose him and not anyone else, as I personally see much better scum suspects.

'cause see, the derringer I get. But by sending all the other shots at eas you've created a situation where saving you is dooming eas. You basically signed your own death warrant there, and the only reason I can see your doing so is in the hopes of hurting town if you could manage to hold on for a bit longer.

What's your thoughts on Crazy? Yawetag?

In semi-related news, with Potter's ammo expended, Crazy AFK and Yaw in jail there have been no mystery shots.

[ElectricBadger]

Welcome, Chronos, thanks for replacing in!

Once you catch up, I'd like to hear your thoughts on Yawetag and Potter

[ElectricBadger]

When did Kast take a hit? I thought there were Missed's played on each one.

If he did get hit,

play: Beer on Kast

.

[ElectricBadger]

Play Winchester

Winchester: allows you to shoot a player 4 spaces away from you or closer

Play Jail on Chronos

Jail card: This card can not be played on the sheriff. This will lock a person up so they can not shot till they roll a 1 on a d6. He can still play miss and try and hid behind a barrel if he get’s shot at

Play Missed on myself

I can't see the mystery shots as a game mechanic. If they are we have very quiet scum, I think.

Based on normal game ratios (not sure how much that applies to this game, but it's a place to start) I'm assuming 2 scum and 1 renegade.

My suspects are Yawetag (for reasons stated before, and also not liking his two protests of innocence today) and Chronos to a lesser degree (due mostly to his position for early mystery shots...though that could have been eas as well, so I'm not sure at this point).

DS, McG and KMD are being quiet and useless, and I'm inclined to think 2 townies and 1 renegade in there: I think the triple punch was the renegade, and the singular event matches up with the lurker-ness of that side of the table.

Shoot: KMD

per the rotation idea. Not a bad plan, and if nothing else it forces players to post or get shot.

[ElectricBadger]

And hell, a gratuitous shot at DS for not responding re: cat card, and not explaining his hunch, while we waited for a townie to die.

Shoot: Dedicated

[ElectricBadger]

Because I'm not fond of being shot myself? And I wanted to be rid of the card, and if my suspicions are right you just shot at me and Kast.

[ElectricBadger]

I need to do an iso, but I think one of you and eas are scum. Either could have done the mystery shot v. crazy (I'm assuming range limitations are in effect for them). So far your spot reads the scummiest, but Potter seemed scummier than ya both so not sure.

Jail is kind of a useless card tbh, so just getting it out of my hand is worthwhile.

As a point of conversation, leaving yourself in jail would be a really good way to prove you're not the source of the mystery shots, so I'm intrigued that you're both so very interested in getting out.

[ElectricBadger]

So this is an unofficial table (please not the bullets aren't the same anymore)

Super table.

Any comments about the game?

[ElectricBadger]

Wow. So you're okay with the circle shooting, but not on yourself?

I believe it was already established that we could defend ourselves.

True, it would. Would you like to be thrown in jail?

Feel free.

And you think I shot myself?

I would've. Particularly as it was that bullet that appeared to prove Morph was the shooter.

[ElectricBadger]

Read the jail description; you can still play Missed and so forth. And spamming enough to get out of jail within the 48 hours it takes for a bullet to hit isn't that hard - but it's a public move.

If someone is desperate to get out of jail for no particular reason it makes me curious as to why.

McG, who's scum? What are you doing to find them?

[ElectricBadger]

Sigh. We've established a LONG time ago that only morph had range on all the victims. There's either 2 shooters or a single shooter that has unlimited range. I'm currently assuming the first - 3 shots at Kast indicate that this isn't random, and that it's not the renegade (who should be trying to help town right now, if they have half a brain, which they don't seem to).

Yawetag, sitting right next to kast, had range on 4 of the first 5 shots, iirc.

[ElectricBadger]

Why assume that I only shot myself? Why accuse me of being scum and

not yawetag

who you yourself said had range on 4 of 5 shots compared to my 1 of the original shots?

Maybe start reading my posts?

[ElectricBadger]

Oh wait, nvm, I found it. Couldn't you be a little more vocal there, EB. And how about answering my question?

Hmm...how about we compare MY investigating to yours? Here's mine on yaw:

I think someone has set up ani. There are obviously cards that allow you to shoot anyone, and it would make sense for a scum to attempt to make him look suspicious. For that reason, it's best to look at someone a distance away from the action.

Mod has stated repeatedly that all cards are played publicly, so that's not it: it would require the shooter have the innate ability to shoot privately AND additional range for it to be anyone but Ani.

And again, what reason do you have other than WIFOM?

I wouldn't say coasting. I'm still trying to get used to a non-normal setup, so it's taking some time to get my feet wet. Because of that, trying to find a suspect is more difficult for me.

But you haven't made any attempt to find a suspect at all; game mechanics completely aside, you've done nothing to pressure other players.

I don't think ani's suspect. It appears someone's tried to frame him, causing the recent barrage of attacks.

This is all you've done this game: dismissed every suspect based on WIFOM reasoning:

too obvscum to be scum, it must be a setup.

In the face of regular attacks on the sheriff and other players you've done nothing but drag your feet and delay, completely unconcerned about the threat. Where's your anxiety about the sheriff? Where's your desperation to find the shooter? Where's any glimmer that you're fighting for town and not just passing time waiting for players to be killed off?

My only thought is that it's people sitting near him, possibly next to him. If I had to choose a target right now, I'd go for eas, simply because he's at that location. By getting rid of ani, it puts him directly next to the sheriff, giving an easy spot to take him out.

That's stupid on two levels. The first shot was aimed AT the sheriff, so it's obviously not necessary to remove Ani to put the shooter in range; and for the first two shots Anon was being replaced - there was nobody playing in that spot to fire said shots.

That was either complete incompetence at scumhunting or the feeblest attempt to manufacture a case I've seen yet. Is there any real reason for suspicion of easy, or was it entirely made up?

In semi-related news, with Potter's ammo expended, Crazy AFK and Yaw in jail there have been no mystery shots.

My suspects are Yawetag (for reasons stated before, and also not liking his two protests of innocence today) and Chronos to a lesser degree

So tell ya what, Chronos, post your comments on any player, and we'll compare who's vocal, hey? I mean seriously, I have my shortcomings but calling me not vocal in this game is an epic fail.

Why assume that I only shot myself? Why accuse me of being scum and not yawetag who you yourself said had range on 4 of 5 shots compared to my 1 of the original shots?

Pretty well answered, I think, but to be explicit: I did accuse yawetag.

[ElectricBadger]

I think proving someone is scum is more noteworthy than saying they are, and it's where I'd rather start from.

Not sure what you mean by your last sentence.

[ElectricBadger]

There a case to go with that, or are you just claiming scum?

[ElectricBadger]

Not liking Yaw's play. It seems too obvious a move for scum; unless we're closer to the endgame then I'd like to think and he's trying to power through it. Pondered this evening, though, and decided that WIFOM isn't proof he's innocent, and even if he is then gunning someone down the instant he's out of prison with no case behind it is a horrible move.

Shoot: Yaw
Play Bang: Yaw

[ElectricBadger]

Who else thinks Chronos and EB might be scum together?

Why do you think so?

And what do you think of the Yaw v. Eas shootout?

[ElectricBadger]

Gut...mmkay. 'Cause I don't see any evidence or suspicion of either of us from you in iso, but you immediately jump out with two OMGUS shots without a case and ignore the more lethal showdown, including one player you have called scum and one you've kept excusing with WIFOM.

It looks more than slightly suspicious, IMO.

[ElectricBadger]

OMGUS? You guys called me scum?

We both shot at you earlier today. Immediately following that you claim we're both scum, and explicitly state that your only evidence is 'gut'. That's as clear a case of OMGUS as I've ever seen.

Yeah, I called Eas scum earlier, but when did I "excuse" Yaw?

I attacked Yaw for using WIFOM as a proof:

And again, what reason do you have other than WIFOM?

You immediately stepped in to defend him (post 11 on iso):

In short, I have no other reason to clear ani. It's all WIFOM at this point. Personally, though, it would be stupid to attack the sheriff so early and so obviously.

Yeah, it's WIFOM. Got a problem with that?

[ElectricBadger]

Also, more directly this time (since you so nicely sidestepped the question the first time): is either eas or yaw scum? If so, why are you ignoring them? If not, what makes you think so, and in particular what changed your mind about yaw?

[ElectricBadger]

When did Chronos shoot me? I thought you shot me as part of the plan (not because you think I'm scum) and McGrid shot me.

My bad; Chronos explained the card, I mistook him as the one who played it. So slightly less OMGUS.

Still very much want to know why you're ignoring the two players most in danger of death, and why you're shooting people without any evidence. It's not like I haven't posted enough for you to find something, if I were scum.

[ElectricBadger]

I'm not ignoring them. I happen to think they are town.

Also, why did Yaw become town?

[ElectricBadger]

I think I'd be most comfortable if every player were at 1 HP and I just shot everyone who isn't next to me (since those guys haven't yet tried to blitz me with bangs and shots). Not knowing everyone's HP, I'd settle for 5 damage on each person (probably kill some of you, but I'd guess just as likely to kill scum as town). Kill everyone, then finally kill the neighbors (they're welcome to kill each other).

Well, I'm gonna guess that giving everyone the green light to slaughter each other at will isn't going to end well.

[ElectricBadger]

What I did post was letting everyone get to low health, then once that happens, I can finish off everyone starting with those who are not next to me. Once it comes down to full health Sheriff plus two neighbors, I try to kill off both of them and they try to kill each other.

Reducing everyone to the point they can be quickly and easily finished with a couple of mystery shots right before the outlaws rush you isn't going to go well for town.

I suggest we continue scumhunting rather than trying to break the game.

[ElectricBadger]

At the moment, there is no reason to believe the mystery shots can occur within 24 hours of player shooting.

There have been shots at less than that, and multiple shots at once.

[ElectricBadger]

Specifically, a shot at less then 24 hours here (not to mention the first shot was after 2.5 hours of game play) and multiple shots here.

[ElectricBadger]

Shoot EB
Shoot EB
Shoot EB

Might as well use these shots.

Yeah, you just keep getting scummier.

That puts me at 1 LP, btw.

[ElectricBadger]

Your only stated reason for your 'suspicion' is "gut". You've said you could produce evidence but when requested haven't bothered. You didn't even bother calling me scum when you fired, just a vague, unrelated, flimsy excuse.

[ElectricBadger]

Beginning of turn=beginning of the day, or any time?

[ElectricBadger]

Well, all I've got is gut.

You're either lying scum or a horrible, horrible player.

[ElectricBadger]

Or I think you are scum.

Not really. Even if you were right - which you aren't, which just compounds things - killing players with no reason at all is bad play. Logic should come first, not as required to convince others (which is pretty much the core of scum behavior, btw).

[ElectricBadger]

Things slowing down...

I think most of us are tapped out. Today's shots fired:

Me 3
KMD 5
McG 4
Yaw 4
Kast 2
Eas 1
LC 1
DS 0

Mystery 4

At a guess that's 4 players without ammo and one being replaced.

If the mystery shots count against normal ammo there's probably also some indication of where scum is at there, and probably another player unable to fire. When someone is eventually killed I suggest requiring Eas, LC and DS' replacement to empty the last of their shots into the person as overkill as well.

On that theme - Eas and LC, why only one shot fired?

[ElectricBadger]

That doesn't include cards s/a bang or derringer, btw.

[ElectricBadger]

You counted my Bang.

ORLY?

Iso 15:

Shoot McGriddle

to go along with the plan.

Iso 17:

Who else thinks Chronos and EB might be scum together?

Shoot EB
Play Bang on Chronos

Iso 27:

Shoot EB
Shoot EB
Shoot EB

Might as well use these shots.

[ElectricBadger]

Farside: given the above, can you please confirm that KMD fired 3 shots at me here?

[ElectricBadger]

Should be a kill v. Yaw, I think.

Eas, Annachie and LC - could you please fire off all your remaining shots to confirm you still have some left?

I know there's a chance the mystery shots don't use ammo, and if so you'll all have some left, but we won't be out anything...but if they do use ammo, it should become obvious who fired them.

Although Kast seems convinced they're a mod device, I think 477 indicates very strongly that they aren't - makes no sense that rule 9 would stop scum from waiting around for rule 9 to kill someone off, and the shots don't seem to be focused on lurkers so far.

[ElectricBadger]

*Attempts to stop the inbound bullet with the power of my mind*

Mind power fails you. Call Dr. X next time for help.

[ElectricBadger]

Weird. Didn't think he'd have so many LP...

So if Yaw's issue with LC assuming Eas had 6 LP was a 'good catch', what should we make of your assumption of Yaw's LP?

As for ammo, Annachie should have some shots left.

[ElectricBadger]

Farside: Please prod Annachie.

Annachie, please empty your weapon somewhere to prove that you still have ammo left.

[ElectricBadger]

Play Beer on myself

Beer - drinking beer makes you feel better. Regain one life point.

Play Jail on Annachie

Jail card: This card can not be played on the sheriff. This will lock a person up so they can not shot till they roll a 1 on a d6. He can still play miss and try and hid behind a barrel if he get’s shot at

Shoot KMD
Shoot KMD
Shoot KMD
Play Bang on KMD

[ElectricBadger]

Pardon; I thought the jail on Annachie was fairly obvious. He was the only player yesterday who never expended his shots, so it's possible he was the mystery shooter. In any case, it seemed prudent to ensure the lurker couldn't do anything until he started posting.

Another mention of a link between LC and I; other than KMD mentioning such and refusing to post evidence, do you have any particular reason?

[ElectricBadger]

Hmm. Not sure what to say about the lurkers; no solid read on either so I'm open to some lurker hunting, though nervous about doing that when we're low on town. Though I guess it's not like they'd do anything to stop a rush on the sheriff anyways.

We should probably at least reduce their LP before we go too much further.

Farside: Bullet heading at me should vanish if/when KMD dies, yeah?

[ElectricBadger]

I think I'm at (2) since I played a Beer on myself here (I was 3 right above it and haven't been hit since).

Still not thrilled with Annachie. At nearly full life and being given a free pass despite his lurking.

Play A fist full of card on Annachie

for 3 damage.

A fist full of card: Play this card on one player. The player will be reduce 1 life point for every card in your hand.

Play: Bang on the Injin

Play: Beer on myself

[ElectricBadger]

Just realized I'm still in jail. So pardon my spam to get out to play my cards.

Original Roll String: 1d6

1 6-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

[ElectricBadger]

Original Roll String: 1d6

1 6-Sided Dice: (5) = 5

And again

[ElectricBadger]

And are you asking players for beer, or the whims of fate?

Original Roll String: 1d6

1 6-Sided Dice: (3) = 3

[ElectricBadger]

Now play all the stuff per 565. Sorry 'bout that.

[ElectricBadger]

Play Winchester: ElectricBadger

Is this admission that you are an Outlaw and you'd like your buddy to start shooting at me today?

I would love some explanation of this as well.

And if I were going to shoot you, Kast, I would have been doing it with my other winchester.

And although I feel I'm a broken record here...why do you say that, Annachie? A reason beyond echoing Kast would be nice.

Shoot: LC
Shoot: LC
Shoot: LC

Agree about the cards being played privately.

[ElectricBadger]

Did some research of cards played per day, with the assumption that mystery shots are cards played from hands. This makes sense, and in review the shots mirror specific cards.

I'm willing to discount the 'additional scum hand' notion as it would require such a hand have 4 bangs on each D1 and D4, and many other cards would be useless.

I didn't include dead townies or Kast. I DID include yaw, with the assumption that he might have the same silent card ability. Specific titles of mystery cards are, of course, assumed, but don't mirror any other card played.



Assuming this method is correct, implications:

D1 tells:
-yaw chose to play a Bang publicly. Implies that he wasn't playing them privately...but not a concrete thing.
-Eas played 3 cards publicly, including a bang. Town-tell.
-Assuming 4 card cap, no single player could have fired all 4 silent bangs, but any combination of players (possible exception of Eas) could have. Weak proof though; a 5 card cap is logical for at least one scum.

Not much to bring away from D2 (any player could have played the 2 mystery cards) or D3 (no cards played).

D4 is VERY interesting, however.
-Assuming a 4 card cap, only 7 cards total weren't used - 4 of them Annachie's. Difficult to see his not being scum.
-Annachie, Griddle and LC are the only ones who didn't play 4 cards. Those three are the top suspects, by card analysis alone.
-LC played 2 Bang, in addition to the four silent ones. Unlikely IMO he would have so many of one type of card. Statistically implies he isn't scum.

Griddle has only played 1 bang (of 8 cards) and not on a day with mystery shots.
Annachie has never played any (of 3 cards).
Easjo has only played 1 bang (of 15 cards). However, played lots of cards publicly on both D1 and D4. Unclear tell.

Conclusions:
-there are multiple shooters. No single player, even with a 5 card cap, could have done all the cards in one day. Not a huge revelation, but it's clearly a shared scum ability
-if there are two scum, then even with a 5 card cap somewhere Annachie is VERY likely to have been one of the mystery shooters on D4. This also explains the lack of a prod until requested. ANNACHIE IS SCUM.

Only comment I found regarding claiming cards is from LC, and (unfortunately, considering the state of the day) strongly implies LC-town. Scum would be strongly opposed to a card claim (even if LC has a higher than normal limit, it would limit his options and those of partner(s)).

I'm kind of thinking along the lines of "claim everything that we are allowed to." I don't think there's very much that's going to help scum more than town, other than how many Life Points Kast has.

If I'm wrong on that read and he flips scum, the only defense I can pose re: the winchester is that it wasn't the first time he's done such a thing. Either he's town trying to help other perceived town, or he's scum trying to buddy up. Or, the winchester was just an attempt to ignite a mislynch since I've already been called his buddy, a more logical move by doomed scum than linking to an obvious partner.

Before I forget,

Play: Barrel on easjo

Barrel: if a player shoots at you. Roll a d6. on a 6 you will be able to get behind the barrel in time for the bullet to pass you by.
Can only be used once per shot

Hopefully that helps with all of those bullets.

TL;DR version: Kill Annachie next. After that, kill Griddle.

[ElectricBadger]

Griddles's derringer stole from KMD, so doesn't affect anything here. Added one card, Whiskey reduced by two, so effectively he played 3 cards; doesn't really change anything imo.

D4 everyone but Annachie fired 4 shots (except for me, 3). So if normal shots can be fired secretly as well as cards it just emphasizes Annachie as obvscum.

[ElectricBadger]

Just tonight. Hadn't really occurred to me to track cards as well as this until now; the description of my Fist as the same as the attack previously supposed to be the renegade was kind of an epiphany.

Comes from my overall analysis. I was already suspicious of Annachie but the chart added another layer of logical proof. I think the card and bullet count on D4 alone is enough to kill Anna for, though, even if I had no other leads.

I've had generally townish reads on both you and Griddle for most of the game. I still think it's possible that Griddle is town, if both LC and Anna are scum and we only have 2 baddies. But if we kill LC and Anna and are still looking for scum I'm inclined to assume Griddle rather than you.

[ElectricBadger]

Either I am obv scum from card analysis, which is strange because earlier you were pushing it because I didn't shoot all my shots when my predecessors were not flaking, or everyone is back into the picture (Well except Kast) becasue they can shoot hidden as well as play cards. No shot count, no worth.

Um...actually the opposite. Skim read ftl. There was a D4 shot count, as I mentioned in the post you QUOTED, and as I said you're the only one who didn't empty their gun in public. As the only one with enough unaccounted-for cards to do the silent shots, AND enough ammo to do the silent shot, and enough of both barring very strange circumstances, you're obvscum. This is exactly what I was pushing earlier - just more evidence for it now.

However, you seem to be full of theories on how the outlaws must operate, sounds like inside info to me. LC flips outlaw, and I'll be crawlin up your iso with a fine tooth comb.

Either I'm right, and it proves you're scum, or I'm wrong and have no such info. Feeble defense.

Still no explanation - despite my request - of your reasoning for LC-scum=EB-scum. Setting up an excuse to kill me after your buddy dies?

[ElectricBadger]

I don't believe farside has made any comment one way or another; I can see 2 or 3 scum. Can't imagine just one, and if there were 4 the game would be over now.

If there are 3 with LC-town, we're sunk already. So I'm assuming at most 2 more scum to find.

[ElectricBadger]

Your flailing and misreading is kind of painful to watch, and the accompanying tone of snide bragging is annoying (not to mention a strange attitude for someone trying to act town nearing lylo without a mafia kill).

If anyone else has the same questions, please ask and I'll respond. Repeating myself in the face of intentional ignorance does none of us good.

[ElectricBadger]

So I am confused. How am I confirmed town or not?

Basically, the comparative number and type of cards you and easjo have played indicate to me that you're more likely to be scum than he is.

Specifically: No Bang cards played by you publicly on D1 or D4, when it seems 4 were played each day by scum (or at all until D6, when you had to play one to avoid a hit); and assuming a 4 card cap, you were one of three that had an unaccounted-for card on D4.

Not a confirmation either way, but an indication if we're still hunting scum after LC and Anna are dead. Anna is basically doing the strawman defense; he's obvscum, so he's focusing on the weakest case of those against him, LC and Griddle to try to disprove the entire theory.

[ElectricBadger]

Anything is possible.

However, a scum hand would have had to have 4 bangs on each D1 and D4, which seems unlikely, and many cards would be useless.

Why would farside play cards at us rather than having the scum do so? The number of shots v. Kast doesn't seem randomized, nor does the rate. IMO it reads more like someone trying to fake randomness and periodically screwing up.

There are scenarios I'm wrong, but they require a lot of "ifs," and almost definitely 3 mafia.

[ElectricBadger]

Play Bang: Annachie

Shoot: Annachie
Shoot: Annachie
Shoot: Annachie

[ElectricBadger]

Just want this out of my hand.

Play Thief on Annachie's Mustang

Thief: You can steal 1 item that is attached to a player

Play The Reverend on Annachie

The Reverend: player cannot play any Beer card this day. Play this card on only one player that can not drink beer.

[ElectricBadger]

Iso'd LC, and the main thing that leaps out is the weird fixation on Easjo. Definitely way more attention to her than anyone else. Specifically:

On to more serious business. I really don't see a motive for Potter-town to go ballistic on easjo like that. I haven't seen anything from her that makes me think she is likely to be scum, so his shooting her makes me think he is more likely than not to be scum.
...
Before I forget,

Play: Barrel on easjo

First, I don't like how DS has been lurking then pops out to Cat Balou easjo just as she comes under fire.

Do you think easjo is likely to be town?

Does anyone else find it interesting that easjo has been the target of multiple all out attacks by players everyone finds scummy?

By the way, everyone, easjo is a girl, not a guy.

Also found this:

I'd fire a shot at Easjo if I could reach him

What has changed about easjo between when you said that and now, when you said:

I'm not ignoring them. I happen to think they are town.

So I am left with shooting easjo or EB. Of the two, I shot easjo because she has more hp left than EB.

The barrel and the life points thing are potentially tells. However, the sheer quantity of attention to Eas seems like way too much for scum trying to distance from one another; so it might just be an ongoing attempt to buddy. Although the random shot towards her seems to conflict with that.

Also, the Saloon came close to saving LC from Kast's volley. I think one more Beer/Missed would have kept him alive, at least for a bit. It was about the only thing Eas could have done to try to save LC without being obvious about it.

Only other tell that leaps out at me is Annachie's attempt to shift the shooting towards me after Kast shot at LC. But that flip seems fairly certain.

Thoughts?

[ElectricBadger]

Play Bang: Easjo
Play Bang: Easjo
Shoot: Griddle
Shoot: Griddle
Shoot: Griddle

[ElectricBadger]

@EB-
Renegade? It's hard to see you as town...

Was hoping to go before you. Would have left both other players low on life, with you able to pick who you wanted dead. If I were renegade or scum, I'd've sent everything at one player to finish them off before you had a chance.

[ElectricBadger]

@EB-
Well, if you are a townie, hope you don't mind that I'm gunning for you next.

Yeah, kinda do - if there's another day it means Easjo is scum, so I'd much rather you gunned for him.

You've been stating this whole game that you wanted everyone lower on life. Not sure why following that now is suddenly a scum move. Look at it from my POV. If Griddle isn't scum, or both he and Eas are, I probably can't finish off Eas with my 3 shots - so if there's a tomorrow, I won't be much more than a cheer squad for you.

[ElectricBadger]

From my PoV, you keep claiming you want to follow that but keep yourself at full health. Not reassuring at all.

I know I'm town; doesn't help town to shoot myself or waste cards. That'd be the equivalent of self voting imo.

I think it's also pretty obvious that if I bumped both Griddle and Eas to just a couple LP at the start of today, you'd've sent a couple bullets my way before finishing someone off even if you had a decent town-read on me.

[ElectricBadger]

But if you can pump out three shots at Easjo, that's probably a good thing.

That's my plan.

[ElectricBadger]

When did Kast take a hit? I thought the Howitzer didn't have a chance to go off.

Kast: Hopefully Griddle's final desperation move against me makes it clear I'm town.

[ElectricBadger]

Shoot: Easjo
Shoot: Easjo
Shoot: Easjo
Play Bang: Easjo
Play Bang: Easjo

[ElectricBadger]

Play Missed on myself
Play Missed on myself

What you think it's for? Explain?

[ElectricBadger]

Fair 'nuff. At this point just curiosity for me anyhow.

Hopefully Eas kept around offensive cards rather than defensive; 6 bullets heading towards him atm.

BTW, nothing left for me to play so I'm fine with ending the day early if/when others are.

[ElectricBadger]

*Pokes Easjo with a stick to wake him up*

[ElectricBadger]

Assuming Eas has more than 4 life, the six bullets will kill me. I don't think playing a Missed on me is a good plan (even if you were willing to do it) as it'll save me but give Eas the opportunity to fire his shots at you, Kast.

Good luck tomorrow.

[ElectricBadger]

GG all. Would love to see the whole setup, Farside!

[ElectricBadger]

As for the random shots.
McGriddle and yawetag had the ability to one per day send an action via PM that would be used on another player in the game.
However most of the random shots were me just rolling a die and shooting.

I think this is my main frustration. By having secret shots and mod-random-shots, it really hurt the town's ability to scum hunt. I think if the intent of the shots was to make people focus on scumhunting then confirming them as a mod device would be more productive. That said, I admittedly spent WAY too much time on deciphering the mechanics.

The real time mechanic is what won the game for town, IMO - both Kast and I were available frequently, otherwise a scum rush could have taken us down. But I'm not sure what to suggest as a resolution, so it's a fairly minor issue.

[ElectricBadger]

I dropped most of my positive reads on EB after KMD and PE were killed against my preference and flipped town.

Once KMD made clear he would kill me without any reasons and you okayed it, I was in a position where it was kill or be killed. I had no choice but to gun down KMD.