Mini 929: Whedonesque Mafia (Game Over)

[Fate]

Thanks for the PM that the game had started TM... -_-'

Reading up now.

Quick question: Seven, did you get that name from Seinfeld?

[Fate]

Thanks for the PM that the game had started TM... -_-

No one else got one -.-

Psh. I was waiting for you to post in PYP, then I figured your game would've been up... See! Lurking is infective!

Vote: Azhrei

Don't like his posts. He attacks farside for a random vote, and then, seemingly out of nowhere votes me to get me to post?

[Fate]

I think he's arguing that your vote wasn't random, because you voted Vaya for her behavior in a past game.

I considered it a "RVS vote" though, which I think is usually interchangeable with "random vote."

I don't know what's changed, Az, but attacking one person then voting someone else is indeed strange. I can understand if I had posted once, promised to catch up, and never posted for awhile to warrant a vote, but I hadn't even made my first one yet.

Vote usually carries some implication of suspicion, yes? Inherently the RVS stage exists because no has done anything yet, so no one's reasons for voting anyone can be substantial at all. Therefore "seriously voting" someone who hasn't posted yet at all the epitome of a baseless vote.

And of course you unvoted when I posted, that's null.

On a side not, because I'm trying to not tunnel as much as I usually do, pwnman is looking pretty scummy with his fear of a quicklynch in a mini..

[Fate]

@Fate; Seven -- any reason you don't have a vote down on anyone?

Any reason you don't read the game before you post?

[Fate]

The wagons on Seven, Vaya, and Pwnman are all based off people disagreeing with their playstyles. (Cautious, Lurking, and BW fearful respectively)

Fate does not approve.

[Fate]

Out of the people on the bandwagons you disagree with, who do you think is most likely to be scum?

You.

Vote: esurio

[Fate]

I rather you try to think of a case against yourself right now.

This should be interesting.

[Fate]

Why would I do that? Regardless of alignment, it is not in

anyone's

best interests, town or scum, to build cases toward lynching themselves. o_O

Tell me why your Seven vote is any better than your Jeromus vote, and I'll consider it.

[Fate]

So basically you vote Roslin, and then ask her to build a case against herself, and if she doesn't you'll gladly switch your vote over to me if she builds a case against me? Can you not build a case against anyone yourself?

You're overreacting. The implication was that I would consider explaining my vote ES, not switch over to join her on you. Your unprovoked defense is noted, though.

ES is still a better wagon, everyone. If we're going to vote people for not voting, Azhrei is up there too.

[Fate]

Fate, are you reading the game? or are you intentionally misrepresenting things? I'm trying to decide whether you're incredibly scummy, or just bad.

I'm curious, how many games are you in?

Who have I misrepresented?

I'm in ~10ish games or so.

[Fate]

Vaya opened with 2 words, then only posted when someone called her out for lurking. I believe this warrants frustration, if, admittedly, not suspicion.

This is harsh wording, if not an attempted misrep. Only 8 hours passed between Vaya's first post and her second post, which hardly constitutes as lurking even in a "short" deadline game (and is far better than the amount of time passed between my first and second posts. <_<; )

I find it confusing that Jeromus would word Vaya's actions to make them seem worse than they are, then defend her actions as frustrating but not suspicious. Maybe I'm trying too hard to find something good and get us further out of the RVS, but I also find his use of the word "admittedly" to be odd. I personally take the usage of such phrases as "admittedly" and "to be honest" as a subconscious tack-on that means, "I don't want to admit this, but I will anyway because I get something out of putting it out there, such as appearing slightly more pro-town or avoiding taking a stance". If you're admitting or being honest about this one thing, what are you omitting?

In other words, I consider it a slight scum-tell, though it's the misrep that bothers me more.

unvote; vote: jeromus

...better than random. Let's see where this goes.

Right now, esurio comes off as fairly town to me, and I don't see what someone would find scummy about her. So Fate's vote on her bothers me, and I want to hear an explanation for it from him.

Unvote
Vote: Fate

They came to each other's defense. Do I really need to spell it out?

[Fate]

The wagons on Seven, Vaya, and Pwnman are all based off people disagreeing with their playstyles. (Cautious, Lurking, and BW fearful respectively)

Fate does not approve.

Post #93 for reference.

Notice I did not call any of the aforementioned players town, so, no, it was not a defense.

It was a disappointing of their wagons. How I didn't make that clear is beyond me.

[Fate]

OMG YOU GUYS ARE SCUMMY NOW FOR DEFENDING EACH OTHER according to your logic. Do you see the flaw in this now?

Nope. Vaya clearly said he felt you were "town." If you misreped me, and pwnman called you out on it, I would expect him to attack your misrep and not deduce that I was town from said misrep.

See the difference now?

[Fate]

...your entire reason for voting me is null, as

by your own logic

, I'm not actually defending Vaya and any defending is only one way. It seems to me that, given your own reasoning, you should be voting Vaya, not me.

What? When did I say that was my entire reason? I was just building on the case that I had not revealed before.

Also, I voted Azhrei earlier, so don't think I let that slip by.

[Fate]

unvote: jeromus

I read his games in iso. He does indeed seem to have an affinity for exaggeration and hyperbole. I still think his wording was too harsh, but I can let it slide now that I have a better idea of how he words things.

You seem to have strawmanned together a very weak case on jeromus.

No duh on the "weak case" thing, though I disagree with throwing around the term "straw manning" so easily. It has a connotation of malignant intent.

Obviously anything this early is going to be weak, though, and I acknowledge that in my voting post. I'd rather have a vote on someone for a reason than be voting someone randomly, no matter how far I have to reach to justify that reason.

I do, however, refuse to keep a vote when I can no longer justify that reason, such as is the case now.

@Fate: You say you disagree with most (if not all) of the bandwagons that have happened thus far. Out of the people on the bandwagons you disagree with, who do you think is most likely to be scum? What wagon do you think is most likely to be solely town-motivated?

@Vaya: Out of everyone who has voted you, who do you think is the scummiest, and why?

@Seven: There's always something you can find to ask someone questions about, especially after the first couple of pages. Watching people play without yourself placing a vote or asking questions can be considered active lurking. Our game days are short, so waiting until two days have passed before jumping in is far from pro-town. Even if it is your playstyle to sit back and absorb everything for a while, you can't afford to do that in this game and we can't afford to let someone who intends to off the hook.

vote: Seven

/impress

[Fate]

Again, why?

If he thinks I'm scummy, he should build his own case on me instead of trying to get me to build it for him. Also, that he would resist giving any reasoning whatsoever for his vote so long makes me suspicious that maybe he didn't initially

have

any reasoning and just wanted an excuse to not answer my questions and thus take too many stances.

And your response to iam's legitimate question just insults my intelligence. Apparently it is a scumtell to vote someone and then ask them build a case against themselves, which the scum will then use against them, because the scum didn't even have a reason to vote them in the first place.

Brilliant! Why didn't I think of it before?

[Fate]

Well - I'm with Esurio - I see no reason i would benefit the town.

That box you're in? There's stuff outside it too, you know.

[Fate]

Enlighten us, oh wise unconventional thinker.

If you can admit to it being unconventional, would you mean explaining once again how it is scummy?

[Fate]

You vote Jeromus. You the unvote him, agreeing your reasoning was weak, and say "I meta'd him and I'll believe that is his style."

Then you vote Seven:"I don't agree with his style." Seven then explains his style, but you do not meta him. Then You switch from your BW vote on Seven to me "I agree with Seven, asking me to make a case on myself is scummy", the one you were previously voting suggested.

Iam then asks you why what I said was scummy, and you provide an unsatisfactory answer that would require me to be a complete idiot.

There, rhyme and reason. I'm exhausted now. Now it is your turn.

[Fate]

Inconsistencies in scumhunting is a strong scumtell. You simplifying my argument in order to refute it instead of countering it is noted.

[Fate]

...I can see

no possible

town motivation for asking someone to build a case on themselves. It just doesn't compute for a townie to ask that whatsoever. Therefore it follows in my mind that that action must be scum or neutral motivated.

You seem to insinuate that you do

not

find asking someone why they're scummy to be a scummy action. Why not? Do you think Fate is town, or are you just trying to play devil's advocate?

Not even reading the game is poor town play. Iam pointed out clear as day why he didn't think it was a scummy action, and pointed out exactly where the pro-town motivation lies.

Iam tipped my hand a little too early, but I got a good amount of reads off before he explained what I was doing.
It is called: reaction fishing. I hope I don't have to explain that to you as well.

Azrhei: apparently if you skimmed my other game you'd notice I acted scummy, got pushed all the way to L-1, and then started reasonably defending myself. I consider my own wagon a good D-1 material.

Look at all we have right now based on my base-less, "no pro-town motivation" post:

Pwnman

- The epitome of a baseless case. "Convince me otherwise." No one has jumped on him for not explaining his case on me. Ironic, right?

Iam

-Votes Seven for "obvious reasons" (not explaining them), BEFORE I vote ES. But no one jumps on Iam for that-or even mentions it- like ES and friends jumps on me. Makes me think I hit scum.

Farside

-sees through my play like Iam. Shows her intelligence, but she wouldn't fall for it as scum either so I can't get a read just yet.

Azhrei

-Thinks I'm scum for a good amount of time before actually throwing down a vote. Calls me a "Zwets" type of player or something. Insults my intelligence, says I don't do well in any of my games, but that I think I do, etc.

Vaya

-Comes to ES' defense calling her town, and throwing a vote down on me

Seven

-Misinterprets my asking ES to convince me how her Seven vote is better than Jeromus vote into me saying I would vote Seven. (I can how he misread this).

There's probably more, but meh. Oh yeah the funniest part of my reaction fishing read was this:

First of all, and I've said this to people before, just because you are aware that it is a scum tactic does not make you town. It makes you scum that knows what they're doing is scummy

1. Asking someone to make a case on themselves when they have no case of their own is

not

a scum tactic.
2. If I am scum that knows what I am doing is scummy, what scum motivation would I have to knowingly act scummy and draw attention to myself? Oh wait, you think I'm a terrible player. Nevermind.

[Fate]

Pwnman- The epitome of a baseless case. "Convince me otherwise." No one has jumped on him for not explaining his case on me. Ironic, right?

What am I chopped liver? Sure I didn't ask pwnman to explain his vote in such a brash tone but I think my post is clear I find his post scummy and he needs to explain his vote.

Sorry sorry! I should've said, "none of the people who are voting me for my 'base-less vote' are calling Pwnman out on it."

I only skimmed your big post yet because I'm focusing on more scummy people.

[Fate]

I'm still waiting for that selling case.

Still waiting for you to comment on #177 and pwnman.

[Fate]

Fate, you responded, well... Exactly how I expected. I really dislike players like you. You play in way too many games at once (the only person I've ever seen handle that many games well was zwtchenwasser...), and play none of them well (I'll admit, I've read none of your other games, but take it as a playstyle meta). The worst bit is you think you play them well, and you don't hesitate to insult others about it. Actually, I lied, the worst bit is how you do it as both scum and town, but you can never tell which. And yet, it is inevitable that you get lynched pretty quick. If you're town, then it's a wasted lynch - really, not much comes out of it. If you're scum - well, I feel sorry for your buddies, but it still doesn't help me find them, 'cause they're smart enough to run away as soon as they see you playing like this. I just feel like its a waste of a day, but keeping you around is always unwise.. (lylo situation + player like you = fail)

Might I make a suggestion? You seem to be a reasonably intelligent person. Try playing less games. Maybe go back and play a newbie game or two. Slow down, and think about things. You'll probably find decidedly less D1 lynches, and decidedly less people disliking you. Of course, I'd say you're probably going to ignore all of this, insult me, call me scum, maaaaybe vote me, and then rage in general, claim something, and get lynched.

But I would like to be surprised...

----

To everyone else, here is my reasoning for belief that Fate is a necessary lynch, and possibly scum, all the way through:

Vote: Azhrei

Don't like his posts. He attacks farside for a random vote, and then, seemingly out of nowhere votes me to get me to post?

He just votes me me because he "Do(es)n't like my posts". He goes to a slight clarification by mentioning things I've done, slightly misrepresenting me, as I see it (perhaps point of view here on the terminology of 'random vote').

After another post responding to myself (not going to quote it here, it's rather large, and this post is getting big as it is, and I responded to it earlier) and a somewhat insulting post at Esurio's stuff up regarding votes, he just suddenly drops his entire aggression on me, in favour of attacking, well, half the players in this game.

The wagons on Seven, Vaya, and Pwnman are all based off people disagreeing with their playstyles. (Cautious, Lurking, and BW fearful respectively)

Fate does not approve.

eally, really is the important part. The best part is when he asked Esurio to make a case for him.

"You're scum!"
"Why?"
"You tell me!"
"Oh, I think I'm scummy because *insert reassons here*"
"See! Even they think they're scummy, look at all of these reasons!"

I'll admit, this would be a stupid gambit to try and pull, but I could see Fate doing it. And it just doesn't fit a townie to try it. Well, not a person playing in the best interests of the town, anyways. He follows up the indignation towards this with:

More and more this smacks of "I just don't have anything and I'm trying to get a bandwagon on you without any reason." It just seems, well, stupid play, to me, for both townie and scum.

From here, he seems to denigrate into petty insults and acting like he's better than those he disagrees with.

For his second last post, he does rally up a little, and at least give it a go, but he still don't seem to give an in depth reason as to why the things he's talking about make Esurio scum.

Gosh, I think that's about everything. In summary, I think that Fatye is either bad-town or bad-scum, and either way, a worthwhile lynch. THis is the most risk-free time to dispose of him, there's a halfway decent chance he's scum, and even if he isn't, he's too big a liability to keep on our hands. Now, I know there are people who disagree with that sort of playstyle, but unless they show me someone who they can show to have a better chance of being scum, I'm staying with Fate.

You know what? This post has been haunting me in my sleep. This is bullshit. You clearly state "I really dislike players like you." What the hell?
Have you ever played one fucking game with me? Do you know how it turned out in the end? How do you know I'm such a "terrible player." Why do you assume I can't handle the amount of games I'm in?

Then you condescendingly offer me advice. I've never been lynched on D1, and for you to assume that shows how uncivil you're being. Telling me to go back to newbie games? Do you know how long I've been playing mafia?

You go onto insult my intelligence. "This would be a really stupid gambit for Fate to pull, but I can see him doing it." You don't ***ing know me.

You go on to insult my play, "bad-town or bad-scum." Therefore I am the necessary lynch.

Let me sum this up for you: You're tunneling someone because you hate them, their playstyle, and because they're dumb. When you don't even know if any of that is true or not.

This does not warrant a vote. This warrants a borderline modkill. I also refuse to contribute to a game in which players attack each other personally. We can have a civil game here. This will be my last post until Azhrei gets his act together.

Sorry town. I'm not going to be involved in a "game" that makes me feel real anger. That defeats the definition of a game.

[Fate]

Ok, one more post. I fucked up the quote tags. My post starts at "You know what?" As the first line.

[Fate]

Thank you Tony. I didn't mean to come across as "calling for a modkill," I just wanted you to remind him of the rules.

Note that it is five pages after our back-and-forth began, and he still has blatantly failed to answer most if not all questions I have thrown at him in an attempt to make him take stances or form opinions other than "esurio is scummy lol".

You're still not reading the game if you think I have taken no stances or had any opinions besides voting you. If you want to stand by this quote, ISO me, quote all my posts, and show how they lack stances or opinions (the recent ones, anyway).

@Pwnman: I swear you voted me. It read: "Vote: Fate", then, "Convince me otherwise."

Now that I ISO you the content of that post has changed to you unvoting and then threatening me to convince you, otherwise...

I suppose I'm going more insane than I already I am.

[Fate]

Thank you, Azhrei. I look forward to being able to enjoy this game again.

With that, said, *points to sig*

[Fate]

Also Iam, you seem to be pretty up in arms about an RVS vote (something that you could have easily looked up yourself via iso), what's with the overreaction?

Irony is irony.

You just devoted 3 posts, a link of proof, and suspicious questioning of Iam who

realized it was a random vote and clearly stated such.

Starbuck, why are you voting me? You're getting on Seven's case for supporting bandwagons without voting,

and yet you're still sitting on a random vote that,

as far as I'm aware, you don't have any reason for. Something doesn't add up there.

Who is overreacting here?

[Fate]

Hmmm my vote is getting restless.

FOS: Starbuck & Seven

So you two, we're nearing the deadline, feel like throwing a vote down yet? Unconventional playstyle or not votals are a powerful scum-hunting tools. A way to combat this is to vote more conservatively.

Don't be afraid to vote. Voting does not=lynch. It shows the rest of town where your line of thinking is. So far of both Seven and Starbuck the only thinking I've seen is: sit back, respond to questions asked to them, post summaries/analysis of players, minor suspicions, etc.

You're sitting on the sidelines like an observer, "oh he did this, s/he said that. That can be seen as scummy etc." and not playing the game, i.e. "I'll vote X, seems like a good direction to go in. X's responses make me more/less certain, etc."

I said this before, as this just might be a difference of playstyles (hence only a FOS), but you're going to need to throw down a vote before the day ends. You have to take a stance. Also Starbuck looks worse of the two, as Iam noted she was on Seven's case when she is essentially playing the same was as Seven.

[Fate]

Is it just me, or has there been a lot of subtle buddying between Fate and Iam?

Don't put me in the same boat as Vaya. Just because someone sees something the same way as mean, it says nothing of their alignment. I haven't seen anything Iam has posted as particularly scummy, but that doesn't make him town by default. Farside and Iam are in the same category for me: good players. They are good at looking town-valuable for both alignments-and can only be read effectively after several days of Voting history and NK choices.

That said "Town" needs to come together at one point or another and consolidate their targets, and agree with other's cases in order to move forward. No one is agreeing with me on ES, so I have to concede and move over to another suspect.

[Fate]

It isn't a doublestandard. I stated my views on the bandwagons, I took a stance against them for the reasons I stated. I was not defending those players as town.

You defended Vaya by interpreting something another person said in a particular way. This is up for much more interpretation than my strong single stance. You could have said "I think it was a misrep" as a way to defend someone more subtly than Vaya's defense of you.

Tell me why you still think my #93 is a defense of any of the players mentioned, and not a stance taken against the wagons at that time. Even if you continue think it is, you have to agree it is much different than what you did.

[Fate]

Vote: Fate

For strawmanning and some elaborate Jason Voorhees action

For strawmanning who? How do you explain not noticing Iam saw your vote was random?

12 pages and this is how you use your vote? Interesting.

[Fate]

12 pages and you are arguing about something as small as an RVS vote? Interesting.

Also Iam, you seem to be pretty up in arms about an RVS vote (something that you could have easily looked up yourself via iso), what's with the overreaction?

Also it was done here...

Post 13

Iam, that's still my RVS vote.

My bad.

Unvote

I thought I did that already.

Your behavior regarding "something as little as a RVS vote" is odd. The fact that you still had a random vote this late in the game shows your unwillingness to take stances, as well.

Vote: Starbuck

[Fate]

Fate, could you please respond to the part of my 211 that's directed at you? I would really like to know your case on Esurio, and I still can't find it.

Vaya, something is still giving me a bad feeling with your posts. I'm going to reread you when I have a screen bigger than a pancake, so later on tonight. (Stupid school netbook).

Starbuck, the last two pages of your play confuse me. I think I will also reread you. You've overreacted to Iam's questioning on your vote (which was reasonably docile), and voted for... well, not much. Why?

I apologise for the brevity of this post, I'll post something better later on.

I'm on Starbuck now. My ES case won't be relevant again unless I vote her again. Needless to say, I think Starbuck looks worse than ES at this point. With ES and me possible being bickering town over minute points.

Speaking of bickering: ES I never changed the definition. A defense in my eyes has always been a defense in my eyes. Soft defense or not, it has been noted. You can argue till you're blue, but it won't change that in my mind you defended Vaya by interpreting Jeromus' words a certain way.

[Fate]

Agreed to disagree.

But,
Keeping your vote on a policy lynch for the rest of the day and hoping for the best? WHAT?

What do you think of Starbuck and my vote on him?
What do you think of Vaya doing nothing but defending himself?
What do you think about Seven who still hasn't thrown down a vote?

[Fate]

What the hell? I leave the thread for a day or two, and everyone hops on the easy lynch and outs our Tracker/Watcher whatever the hell?

Iam, if you think scum are bussing D1... I just don't know what to say. The way this wagon formed there's no way he's scum. We have two "inactive targets" Pwnman and Bv130. Unless they are both scum, you can bet your ass scum would jump on the "townie inactive."

Major FOS: People jumping on Pwnman wagon

Time to re-read, though, as Starbuck wasn't on that wagon. (Not that all scum were, but I'm sure to find scum on the wagon).

[Fate]

I don't believe pwnman right now, but if we lynch him right away we have no leads on his buddies. I don't have a scum read on SB either right now. I can't say I agree with her but she's feeling pretty neutral. I would like to consider BV. I'm going to read his ISO and I'll comment tonight after pwn posts.

Holy **** 12 pages and the only leads you have are the two with the least posts?

HoS: Seven

I believe Pwnman. "Please don't kill me I can be useful!" Well, once you're outed, not really. I'm not going to lynch you and save the mafia a NK though.

[Fate]

@Fate - HAND of suspicion? Okay. Show me how you use your whole hand to present suspicion!
We still have that "Lynch" thing to do. Really, we need everyone to post their thoughts now - As I shall do now.

Pwnman - I'm unsure of you. Your claim makes me reluctant to support your lynching - But I still thought you were a tad suspicious in that you only posted once at L-1, along with your post in response to me asking your opinion, stating not your suspicions, but simply stating the two other bandwagons.

Az - Based on other games, and, y'know, having known you for 4 years - I'm getting town. Aggressive, obnoxious on occasion, town, but town.

Seven - Your stance appeared odd at first; even scummy, but as the game waddles along, I'm finding you more and more town.

Farside - Look...I've really got nothing. You say a lot of what other people say, only badly phrased, but it's hardly a solid tell.

Iam – Has done nothing to offend as yet – Is good at saying what everyone else is saying and what everyone else is clearly thinking, but that might be the BW spam in this game getting to…Well, everyone.

Starbuck – Look, Iam was really not getting up in arms about that; that claim was hardly valid, but other than that, you’ve been neutral.

Esurio – I like you. Your prose and your play both please me and I get critical town from your play.

Fate - Fate...I'm sorry, I just dislike you. Your play frustrates me; and it still appears quite scummy to me, with your "No...YOU tell me why I should vote you!" case. I'd say you're pretty high on my scumdar, for your unorthodox and, what I believe is illogical play.

Bv310? - I've got nothing. Try posting. Please, I beg of you.

Wolf - You're a whole heap of neutral right now. I've got no bad feelings on you, ETC. which bothers me, for that's the perfect situation for the scum to be in; but thus far I have nothing.

Vaya - You're also neutral, perhaps even pro-town. You don't post much, but when you do, your logic is sound and your posts contain appropriate and valid content. Keep that up . But change your gorramned avatar.


Gah, too many neutral reads!

Based on this I would not mind a last minute Jeromus train. He was also one of the later ones on Pwnman's terribad wagon that forced him to claim.

Unvote: Starbuck

Vote: Jeromus

[Fate]

I still don't know if I believe Pwnman's claim, if only because the power seems really strange, and the way he presents it seems like he's either whining or REALLY trying to convince everyone.

Don't look at the claim. Look at his wagon, the people on it, how it formed.

Do you honestly believe he is scum?

[Fate]

At least we can agree on something Azhrei.

No Jeromus, I didn't ask you to post a case on yourself. You already did with that abysmal player list...

Farside has poor grammar? That's a new one. I'd like to remind you of Rule 16 before you say any more...

[Fate]

Jeromus, that's nothing new. You should have voted me in the last post, where in your whole list of players of people that were neutral, and pwnman who you were unsure of, etc.

I was the only player that was "high on your scumdar" yet you didn't even vote me until I voted you.

Play being frustrating does not make me scummy. You'll have to have better reasons than my "make a case on yourself" post to ES, which I have yet to do again with another player (apparently no one but Iam sees the town reasoning behind this).

I have taken strong stances throughout the game, as opposed to you who have merely bandwagoned (self-admitted).

[Fate]

Read 310 again. The reasons I list there existed before he voted me.

[Fate]

Deja vu? It was self-explanatory. Votes often are, or should be. Especially when a post is quoted. It also let Azhrei post his own reasoning for voting you rather than just piggybacking on to me, thus earning town points for him in my eyes.

"We just need a lynch." Agreed. However scum use that reasoning far more often than town just to push a mislynch through. Especially when a pwnman flip is barely going to tell us anything than "oh scum bussed him" or "oh he was bad town" with the former being much more unlikely for reasons I already stated.

[Fate]

Azhrei you're missing the whole part about how lacking his town list is. He has only one suspect, me, and he doesn't even vote me. He's content with the pwnman lynch that is already in the works, rather than trying to start up a Fate lynch (since I'm scum in his eyes).

[Fate]

So my crappy scumhunting which netted a vote on Jeromus... the same person you voted... ergo your scumhunting is crappy as well?

DO NOT LIKE.

Also Watchers target people likely to be town, as Watchers see who visits them (unless it is the other kind of watcher that sees if the person actions or not), so yeah...

[Fate]

The BaM Ruleset: (stolen/modified from Xyl)

1.) Votes must be

bolded

and at the start of a line. If we don’t see it, we wont count it.

At Seven by the way.

[Fate]

(pssst don't call my town ES I don't want to die)

Just kidding. If I'm right about Jeromus I'll gladly take a NK and trade my life for a scummies'

[Fate]

Um, are you even trying anymore Jeromus?

Shouldn't you be, I don't know, pushing for my lynch or something?

[Fate]

We have about 8 hours or so. Sit and wait for the gallows? That's always pro-town.

You going to claim, or will you be around before the deadline in case you're put at L-1?

[Fate]

Err... claiming would be claiming. And would be evaluated as such. "Futile attempt at escape" Something tells me you're not going to claim a PR...

[Fate]

Well I'm lockeng up and going to bed now. Hopefully I don't sleep through the deadline, but:

If Jeromus goes and claims 'nilla like I predict, then I'm fine with my vote where it is. If he claims Cop or Tracker or something... well I just hope we have enough people on to make a good decision/start up another wagon, or something.

[Fate]

Morning town. I assume we can get past badgering me and calling my methods ineffective?

Vote: Starbuck

Feel even better about this after Seven's flip.

Any results, Pwnman?

[Fate]

Farside, Jeromus was a traitor. Surely you understand the implications of this?

[Fate]

Right, I read your last post as "Vaya didn't suspect Jeromus except for early on in the day."

But now that I've re-read it I see your suspicion of him is based off him following and not having any real suspicions.

My bad.

[Fate]

Probably didn't make myself clear:

I thought you were voting Vaya for an early distancing attempt, which would have been impossible, but you are voting him for other reasons.

I'm just crazy I guess...

[Fate]

@bv130+Wolf: Aren't we little balls of helpful sunshine? Have anything else to add to the game besides flavor discussion? No votes from either?

FoS: Aforementioned

@ES:

It seems to me he was posting more based on how likable people's playing personalities were with a few nitpicks on playstyles than any known alignments.

@iam: Curious as how you could have read Jeromus in iso and not so much as mentioned all his Vaya-buddying. Not sure it warrants an FOS, but it is noted.

ES ES ES... I try to not tunnel you and this is what you give me? A blatant damage control? He DID know alignments, so saying "he was posting based off people's personalities" is just trying to misrepresent him. His role was to help the mafia from the shadows, so I'm sure we can find that in his posts.

The second quote is even MORE damage control+Hypocrisy. You admit ES buddy'd up to you, (I didn't see one post of yours stating how "uncomfortable" this made you) but then you use him buddy'ing up to Vaya as an attack against him?

Unvote:

Vote: Esurio

Mod, can you prod Starbuck please? I believe it has been 3 days+

[Fate]

Much better Wolf.

Now we just need Pwnman to come out of the woodworks and Bv to find time to catch up on all his game... Oh and that Starbuck girl too.

[Fate]

Hey Fate... You know how you said your case on Esurio wouldn't matter unless you voted her again? Well, yeah. Would you mind recapping on your D1 suspicions of her and their reasoning? Also, I really, really don't like how you claim not voting at the start of the day is a scum-tell. Please explain why not voting is inherently scummy.

Wolf, I'm liking your long post. I can see where you're coming from, and I really don't see any flaws. Except for the part where I don't read Esurio as scum :/ When I have some time, I'ma reread. Again :/

Oh, also, might I just note, Jeromus does tend to be... well, eccentric is the best word I can think of, so I'm not sure how much we should take from his interactions. And just to clarify, all his insulting me really is just friendly banter, and nothing is meant by it. Well, insofar as I can tell. He doesn't really hate me xD

Yeah I would mind. What do you think of Jeromus' defense of ES?
When did I say not voting at the start of the day was scummy? I FOS'd Wolf and Bv for not contributing anything in their first posts, but nice misrep.

Sort of like your first post. Ditto what Farside said.

[Fate]

I need a replacement for pwnman in Newbie 918. We're on Day 1, page 9.

pwnman was an SE in this game, so I'd prefer an SE replacement to fill the spot if possible. Please shoot a PM to me if interested. TIA.

From the newbie queue. Foreshadowing ftw...

[Fate]

(Hey Bv130 while you're here, who do you think is scum?)

@Starbuck: We clearly were both on you end of D1 before Jeromus. Do we have to restate reasons every single time we vote for you?

@Az: I was calling something else, them not contributing, scummy. Not just the fact that they didn't vote in their first post. You haven't the foggiest? Still? Well then, good sir, your, your play style of not having a clue after a scum flip D2 frustrates me.

Also I think you would have learned to accept mine by now. Isn't that what got the most "content" out of Jeromus? If it turns out Jeromus was indeed defending ES against me, wouldn't my play style have caught two scum?

[Fate]

Absolutely.

I think voting for someone and then stating you have to re-read to make sure is a definite cop out on giving a reason.

1. It isn't a cop out if I already gave the reasons.
2. Iam+Fate buddying? Last time I checked here are the two prime examples of buddying:

Es+Jeromus: Jeromus defends ES and goes so far as to vote her attacker (me). Jeromus calls ES critical town

Fate+Iam: Iam explains the possible town-motivations behind Fate's play. Iam seems understanding of what Fate is doing. Iam does NOT vote Fate's attackers. Fate says Iam is a good player, and is difficult to read. Iam and Fate agreed on Jeromus' lynch, seeing the same scumtells. Iam and Fate agreed on Starbuck's tells.

So if people are ever together on a lynch they are buddying? I'm not quite sure I understand this position other than, "well don't vote me for buddying when THEY WERE DOING IT TOOOO"-paraphrased ES, which is a scummy position to take.

Also, my thoughts on Vaya? I was thoroughly disappointed when he wasn't vigged last night. Maybe he's a Bulletproof or something. Other than that, looking forward to his eventual replacement along with Pwnman's. (oh wait this is BaM...damn)

[Fate]

^oh and by "prime examples" I meant, let me compare a real case of buddying with a supposed case.

[Fate]

Don't feel like explaining right now, but I still don't like her.

Ha. Trying to copy me, eh? Last time I checked your only case against farside was the post she linked in the post above this. Not liking her "segment" on you or something, combined with today where she voted you, it screams of OMGUS.

That said you were also one of the scummies "unvotes" of my wagon yesterday, as in, the first one to jump off when it seemed like it wasn't heading toward a lynch, and onto the pwnman wagon.

That said, I still have ES and Starbuck in my sights. You're on that list too now, though.

[Fate]

That statement is baseless though. Sure you can say, "I thought that the second I read the post, and then noticed other people saying it too." But you can't prove it unless you actually post first with that reaction.

I find it better to say, "yeah I noticed that as well." or "I agree with X." It is just an easier thing to acknowledge, rather than having to overthink "well did he really think that as a first reaction or is he just saying that to cover up any "parroting" attacks he may garner?"

I noticed Vaya has done this as well.

[Fate]

@everyone: can I insist you abbreviate my handle to "esurio" rather than "es"? It's easier to ctrl+f for.

Why are you searching for your own name?

[Fate]

@Iam: Esurio's flip will tell us plenty with regards to both Farside and Wolf. Join my wagon please?

[Fate]

@Iam: Esurio's flip will tell us plenty with regards to both Farside and Wolf. Join my wagon please?

How so?

Heh. Wasn't the reaction I was looking for. This earns you plenty of scumpoints.

Are you worried? Want to start changing your play accordingly?

[Fate]

Then why did you ask?

[Fate]

Vaya, meet me halfway and vote ESU. We can go after Farside tomorrow depending on her flips.

[Fate]

The middle ground is Esurio!! Come on farside! Pleeeeeeeeeeaseeee

@Starbuck: Looking forward to all your cases and such.

[Fate]

This post needs some sort of conclusion tying it together. Therefore, uh, certain aforementioned people need to actually scumhunt, so there!

That's the worst most hypocritical conclusion I've ever seen. "MORE PEOPLE NEED TO SCUMHUNT BUT I'M EXCLUDED FROM THIS"

Why did you waste your time analyzing me if you think I'm town? "Everything about you is scummy...except for the traitor trying to get you lynched. I'd vote you if it wasn't for that"-talk about FLUFF.

Why am I not surprised she'd be ok with a lynch of either of our lurkers?

Why am I more surprised that THERE ARE SO FEW VOTES ON HER?

[Fate]

Esu voted Vaya... literally in the post right above your vote count, mod.

>_>'

<_<;

[Fate]

Yeah, I agree Vaya's vote made her look more town. Though my first reaction was, "nice deflect onto an easy lynch everyone "agrees" on?"

Esu is right, Starbuck's flip is going to be worthless. Starbuck needs to contribute a lot more than one-liners to get reads/connections off her.

Also, softclaiming is bad. Let's just hear it, since apparently it "isn't power" but it is "something someone can believe" (which screams of fakelist vanilla claim, but we'll see). Who knows, maybe I'll have a change of heart.

[Fate]

Starbuck are you going to scumhunt? Or just question the people who vote you?

[Fate]

Unvote

Vote: Vaya

[Fate]

I don't know jack *** about any of the flavor, so I'll evaluate it like this: One shot vig is provable, and it gives town an extra kill (you do agree we get to direct your kill now, right Vaya?)

And since we're directing the kill, we might be better off letting Pwnman simply be modkilled-> 9 players left, 2 NKs -> 7 players left, which odd numbers favoring town (allowing for one more mislynch).

Unvote

for now, thoughts on this plan?

[Fate]

SK is what I thought originally when I looked at the wiki. But, aren't SKs (on the other site I play on they are) usually compulsive? As in they must submit a kill?

A stacked kill would explain it, but still, why not just claim regular Vig then?

[Fate]

Also, Vaya, you could very well have been killed last night/Lynched today, why did you not shoot farside N1?

[Fate]

I wanted to see if Vaya would offer up her shot to town, which-by the way farside-is pretty anti-town.

If we discuss who she shoots, then scum know whether to RB her, kill her, let her shoot, etc.

Now, Vaya, you announced you were going to shoot Farside. I, for the life of me, can't find any pro-town motivations behind

that

. NOW if farside is scum she can stop you, if not, let you kill, etc.

(I wish for the love of all that is holy pwnman could post just to tell us he was RB'd at least, so we can gain some insight into the setup.)

[Fate]

Let's see. Now that bv310 is softdefending ESU, I am more likely to see Jeromus not directly linking himself with any of his buddies so obviously (scum rarely do, but Jeromus was hinting "newbie" with that self-hammer), and the "egg on a town on town fight" case.

That being said, Starbuck has continued to contribute next to nothing.

How is my skepticism obvious? I'm a big fan of Firefly, and for Jayne to be a one-shot vig just doesn't make sense.

I'm a big fan of Mafia, and for scum/SK to fakeclaim a 1-shot vig just doesn't make sense.

It is the motivations behind your skeptism. You rather push the Vaya lynch (which you haven't voted for. In fact, I can't remember the last time you voted for anyone besides me), by meta'ing flavor (which should never be done too heavily in any modded game.)

Do you propose the "Evidence" of the likeliness of a certain character in a show translating perfectly into a certain Mafia role to outweigh the benefits of a provable town role? If so, where is your vote?

Vote: Starbuck

[Fate]

pwnman

is replaced by

DedicatedScribe

WHAT HAPPENED? WHY DID YOU TAUNT US SO?

[Fate]

I'm reading, usually I came in swinging last time because I was first to post. I got three pages to go through and I'm enjoying IRC mafia at the moment.

You'll get something from me, rest assured. So far I see that Azrhei totally misinterpreted my D1 (I pushed for a Seven lynch that much, really?), and that if we are to believe Wolf's ability than Iam is definitely up a few scum points for subtle buddying to me.

[Fate]

Where did i say

you

pushed for a seven lynch?

You said Iam, my mistake. That interjection plus skimming threw me off.

Ok here's how I see things.

With Wolf's ability (which is we believe too fully and don't think he is scum will really backfire on us later), we can use the following plan:

Take a confirmed townie, Esu, stick her with two suspect people, and have everyone else vote someone. If Wolf's hammer works, then we know the 2 suspect people are the last scum, and we go in tomorrow with a win.

So, for everyone's sake, let's go with:

LYNCH -> Fate: Vaya, Farside, Azhrei, Wolf

OFF DA WAGON:

Esu, Fate, Iam

Hammer will fail, because I'm obvtown, and then we can switch it around (preferably myself and Azhrei)

[Fate]

Actually make that, switch me and Iam's name after my lynch fails (this is all banking on Wolf's confirmation from mod, because I doubt TM will lay down and let us *** his setup), and then if we're both clear we can move on to Azhrei

[Fate]

I'll claim after Iam. Sucks to hear about Wolf's hammer ability being removed, (more fun stuff to talk about post game).

[Fate]

Well I'm lockeng up and going to bed now.

I am Kate Lockley, a cop with the LAPD. I'm a rationalist, more flavor that I don't know understand references too, etc. Evil, darkness, etc.

N1: Innocent on Seven
N2: Innocent on Farside

So Starbuck's curse thing didn't work on me apparently. Might as well have though.

Goo......

AZHREI

Also, Iam, I'd expect a better fakeclaim than that. With all these crazy roles so far, the possibilities are endless!

[Fate]

I didn't investigate randomly, I investigated people who I found hard to read.

Since it looks like I'm the likely lynch based off my role and nothing else, I'll realclaim:

I got a guilty on Seven and a guilty on Farside.

I investigated Farside because if she did in fact get vigged, it would help me narrow down my sanity some more. I claimed to have innocents so I could draw the NK tonight, but apparently town wants to do scum's work for them and kill off their own cop. Seven's playstyle was weird so I choose her, Farside is hard to read (see: Iam's link) as scum so I inspected her next.

Anyway it is the weekend which means I work doubles everyday, so the next chance I'll have to explain myself is tomorrow night if everyone will give me until then (unless scum wants to quickhammer, that is fine too).

So yeah, for all you "LOLOUTGUESS THE SETUP" newbs, I'm a worthless investigative role, if it makes you feel any better. Unless I'm insane and not paranoid and Farside is indeed innocent, but there isn't really any basis for that.

Now, can we go back to not lynching me based on my day play instead of my night choices?

[Fate]

I didn't investigate Esu because I had thought I had a good read on her. I investigated Seven because her play style was strange and I didn't want to tunnel him. Guess what I found out? I'm insane.

I'm lucky I investigated Seven so we didn't have to go down the road of, "AHA! I got a guilty on Esu..." -> "Mislynch" -> "Well shit I'm insane..." -> "Lynch the cop."

I don't know why everyone assumes, "oh investigate whoever you find scummiest during the day." As good cop play.

Esu, your:

((Fate, if by some remote chance you're town, I am going to MURDER you in post-game. WTF is this shit.))

is along the terrible groupthink at work here. "He plays cop badly! He MUST be scum!" Murder me? You're reaching Azhrei levels of insult here, this is my play and it is not bad. I know a few others who agree with me on this way of playing the cop.

No, I'm not. I just investigate differently than most. I'm not sorry. If I were scum I would have done adjusted my play to the "norm" i.e. scumhunt, investigate said person, then do a 180. As in, claim an innocent on Esu.

The problem with that vanilla cop play is it is obvious to scum. If I did a complete 180 on Esu D2, any intelligent scum would go "DING DING DING! COP WITH AN INNOCENT!" I avoided going down that path.

Why would you investigate someone you had a difficult time reading?

How else would I be able to read them? Farside, will you admit to being good at scum? I'll admit to not being the best scumfinder around, and I think you would be able to trick me as scum. So why

wouldn't

I get a "free" read by investigating you? Why should I play according to how everyone else says I should have chosen my targets?

Disagreement =/= scum. I'll tell you what I think scum is doing, claiming vanilla. I have no idea what powers scum have in this setup to balance out this town, but it is getting to the point where we'll let a vanilla claim slide by and lynch a cop for being a freakin cop.

What else have I done that's scummy? Lead the lynches on both the Traitor and the SK? "FATE YOU DIDNT KNOW THEY WERE THAT EVEN AS SCUM!" Even so, I

lead

the fucking lynches. If I were scum they would be mislynches from my POV, i.e. highly risky to lead both of them.

Yeah yeah WIFOM, WIFOM. But seriously, put yourselves in my shoes. Now pretend you're scum and fakeclaiming cop. Do you claim an investigation on the dead guy and then the person who was going to be targeted by a vig? Do you claim innocents at first and then later reveal you're insane and the real reasons you choose your second target? Do you claim Cop in the first place with so many other investigative roles out there?

That said, Iam is sliding under the radar here.

Vote: Iam

Possibly with Azhrei.

Now everyone, we have plenty of time before the deadline. Let's take a step back, and evaluate my play more thoroughly than my claim. I want full cases on all my play from the people that want to hurry up and lynch me (see: Vaya and friends).

You know the good sort of post by post thing that shows where my motivations are scummy and such. Oh and by the way:

I'm just crazy I guess...

ISO post #54, early in D2 (after I found out my sanity from Seven's flip) I breadcrumbed being insane.

[Fate]

All right, I woke up bright and early for this townabs I expect to be heard out. Vaya STOP being stubborn and unvote me, until we get closer to the deadline or I've said my peace.

Don't care about my day play? That's what this game is fucking about! That is what good mods design their setups around so a player doesn't get lynched on role alone

If you're just being scum or being lazy, here's a summary:
Remember when I could have let the watcher/doc been lynched and said "NO this lynch is bullshit!"
Remember when you looked scummy as hell and I switched to SB?
Remember when the fucking TRAITOR wanted me lynched really bad?
It's not about looking good as town, it's about playing to win. Where's the scum motivation in in my play?

FARSIDE. You better be scum. Remember bouncy? I thought we learned our lesson.
YOU DONT LYNCH BASED OFF FUCKING NIGHT CHOICES.

That's all. This lynch is bullshit and if everyone stopped tunneling for half a god damned second they'd see that. So UNVOTE NOW before iam comes and hammers my ass before people have a chance to see straight.


Disagree with my play all you want postgame. It doesn't make me scum.

[Fate]

Here's where I'm confused the most and do not believe you to be telling the truth the most.
First you investigate Seven and he flipped town. At this point if your telling the truth about a guilty then why would you say this

I investigated Farside because if she did in fact get vigged, it would help me narrow down my sanity some more.

If you get a guilty how will this narrow down your sanity? If your so sure Esu was scum day 1, then why not check your sanity on her? Seriously if your telling the truth it makes no sense to say the above. If your questioning your sanity you should check the person you feel is most likely scum.

Missed this post.

I didn't doubt my sanity until I got a guilty on the dead guy, honestly. I wanted to lynch esu, not waste an investgation on her. Your flip would help narrow down my sanity if you were scum, and I got an innocent on you!or a guilty, which would be the difference between insane and paranoid.

[Fate]

We didn't lynch Esu day 2. So again why would you not investigate her to see if there was a difference. Did you really need another dead body flipping town to tell you anything?

As for your comment about bouncy in another game he was a newb. What's your excuse?

We didn't lynch Esu D2, because bv130 basically said she was town. And, as Iam said, the only way to confirm my sanity (as useful) would be to investigate scum and get an innocent. Then again, I could be random, and get an innocent on an innocent. HENCE why I choose someone who I thought might die.

Bouncy was a newb. He used random.org, I was nowhere near that bad, but my point is the suspicion surrounding me is focusing too heavily on my

night choices

That said,

Unvote

. Iam actually has the most accurate case on me here:

What a silly question. This is so not the issue with Fate's claim.

The issue is that Fate threw in sanity issues to his claim only after Vaya made a really good point about the brokenness of a cop + doc/watcher combo, when there was absolutely no pro-town reason not to say right off the bat that his results were both guilties.

What can I say other than repeat myself. There

are

sometimes good reasons to lie as town. Scum might waste their RB on me, a sane cop is pretty powerful, if not attempt to NK me (since Wolf is likely dead tonight).

Scum always assume town will tell the truth. Sometimes a cop with useless investigations (i.e. a sane cop who has targeted dead people by chance) who claims Vanilla Townie will be completely ignored by scum RBs and NKs. Then he can come later with a guilty and nail the scum, hoping his

DAY PLAY

will be strong enough for people to believe the gambit.

That is what I'm banking on here. Even Iam's, most reasonable of them all, has nothing to say about my day play. Where in my posts have I been scummy? How is my involvement in each lynch scummy respectively?

Vaya is either being terribly stubborn or scum. And if he's scum, guess who is scum with him? Farside (which would make me paranoid).

And now that I think about it, a hider that only hides from NK's but not investigations is a little odd, she might be covering for Fate's fakeclaim here. Also, claiming to have hidden behind esu, one of the confirmed townies who was an obvious NK target for scum last night is pretty bad.

I think that Fate and farside as the remaining scum isn't unlikely.

This post from Vaya set off alarms. What if Farside's claim sets up

Vaya's

fakeclaim? The "oh the mod says it doesn't stop investigations" could be scrambling to avoid me knowing

for sure

that Farside was lying. Other than that, the whole Farside Vaya spat and Vaya having that "case" on Farside could just be setting up for bussing later on, and the eventual OSV vig claim in which Farside, of course, wouldn't die from.

But maybe that's just me being paranoid. Still, Vaya hasn't been a shining beacon of towniness, and if we lynch one of the pair it will at least role confirm the other. Right now I think either Azhrei or Vaya would be a good lynch. Iam was mostly just process of elimination, but now that I think about it, we should have at least that many vanillas. Which means the tracker/hider combo seems a little overpowered for town to have.

Now that it seems more important, I'll go into more detail about my flavor. It says there's a lot of "bad guys" to out there, but I find it difficult to accept the true darkness behind it. Also that I want rational explanations for the killings that happen, but instead I will find a really terrible bad evil.

[Fate]

I am Angel from the show buffy/angel - I can be the brooding soul that can stay under the shadows (hider) or I can be the dedicated detective to finding those who mean others harm (tracker).

Night 1 I tracked Vaya. She didn't go anywhere.
Night 2 I hid in the shadows

I verified with the mod that my hiding ability is immune to night kills like wiki but can still be investigated.

Hmmm I forgot this. Vaya went NOWHERE? Oh hell, their claims just match each other perfectly, don't they!?

Farside voted Vaya immediately after N1. Is this consistent with tracking someone nowhere? Farside, why didn't you think that with 2 scum left, both would have actions of some sort? Especially with an "interesting" role like yours.

God we have to lynch one of them. Her claim is basically a mirror of Pwnman's! The first to and only one to claim D1! THEY THOUGHT UP THIS PLAN N1 I GUARANTEE IT, BASED OFF PWNMAN's CLAIM.

Vote: Vaya

[Fate]

I watch Angel but for some reason I barely remember Kate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Lockley

"Kate was originally conceived as a much darker character. In the unproduced episode "Corrupt," she was a detective deep undercover as a prostitute and addicted to drugs."

Sounds paranoid to me.

Farside, in the case of your death N2, do you have any breadcrumbs as to your result of Vaya? I have been a tracker in a Star Wars themed mafia before, and I got to "went nowhere" results. I breadcrumbed them both as town near the start of the game. You, however, went after said person in a way that can only be explained as distancing. How convenient Vaya said he was going to shoot you.

I said it yesterday and I'll say it today. Why claim who you're going to shoot? What's the pro-town motivation? In the magical world where Vaya and Farside are town, Vaya saying he was going to shoot Fars let scum say, "ok, we'll Roleblock Bv130 instead." Not pro-town. If anything, that declaration was worse than my saying I had innocents.

Now, before anyone says, "you first said you had an innocent on farside, now you're saying she's scum? If we had believed your first claim we never would have gone after her." Except that I was expecting to draw the NK, in which my sanity would be revealed. Then I expected town to connect the dots that I was lying about the innocents.

I guess I asked for too much.

[Fate]

I have been a tracker in a Star Wars themed mafia before, and I got to "went nowhere" results. I breadcrumbed them both as town near the start of the game.

EBWODP: Should read: I got two**... and near the start of the days***

[Fate]

Hypocritical much?

There should be more then one scum in this game left. I believe there is 2 left and just because she went no where day 1 doesn't mean she's clear in my view. Do you really believe that just because she went no where that clears her in my view based on her behavoir?

I'm calling Fate/Iam scum team. He and Iam are trying really hard at not bussing each other.

I think going nowhere should clear Vaya a lot more in your mind that it did. Continued acting scummy? Yeah I could see townFars voting him. But a vote on the first page? That tells us "this is the direction I want to go today" why would you want that when at the very least you knew that Vaya was cleared from the kill the night before?

Well I know why, because you wanted to distance yourself from Vaya.

I'm not being hypocritical. Iam got me thinking. That game she linked to where you were scum? The person you mislynched for the win said this word for word: "Farside's scum, I was beginning to suspect her earlier because I thought "Farside is usually more reasonable as town.""

You are usually more reasonable. You keep pushing the: "Fate is scum based off his night choices alone" case and it is failing. You have nothing more to go on. I'll give you props, this gambit with Vaya was impressive, but it won't pay off.

"Iam and Fate are trying really hard not to buss each other." Farside-town would not say this. Would magical world do you live in where Iam and myself are

both

scum? I agree that from everyone else's point of view, they should see at least one possible scum between the two of us (one buddying up to town), but BOTH? Scum are never that suicidal. There numbers are just way too few. Especially with their traitor dead.

You and Vaya on the other hand have interactions more in line with what I would see from scum. Distancing always, bussing when appropriate, and it all tied up into a nice fakeclaim. The only problem is you bet too much on us believing it 100%.

[Fate]

Farside voted Vaya immediately after N1. Is this consistent with tracking someone nowhere? Farside, why didn't you think that with 2 scum left, both would have actions of some sort? Especially with an "interesting" role like yours.

Good catch.

Also, we are NOT lynching Azh, not today. There are two pairs here, the iam/fate pair and the vaya/farside pair. In both cases lynching one will tell us a lot about the other, whereas the only people Azh really has connections to are myself (for agreeing with me so much earlier on) and Jeromus. So, safe for now.

I would prefer a Vaya lynch to a Farside lynch, and an Iam lynch to a Fate lynch, though if the scumpair is Vaya + Farside it is extremely likely that Farside is the roleblocker. Fate has a good point about his dayplay, which makes me inclined to not lynch him now that I'm over my "GRR REVENGE FOR ALL HIS TUNNELING ON ME" phase.

If I were going to completely ignore all claims and go solely on people's play, Vaya would die first, followed by iam or farside for being blehneutral all game, followed by Fate or Azh. The only reason I could see to lynch Azh requires the "too townie" fallacy.

So.

Vote: Vaya

Mod:

votecount plz

Fair enough on not lynching Az. I'm glad you are able to overcome your desire to lynch me even though I tunneled you. Yes Fars is the likely roleblocker, but once Vaya flips scum there's not much she can do to save herself regardles, so better to lynch the scummier player.

As for a temporary vote count:

Fate: Azhrei, Vaya, Farside (L-1)
Vaya: Me, Esu (L-2)

Not Voting: Wolf, Iam

Neither of which have stated any intentions to hammer, so I don't think we have to worry about a quickhammer.

[Fate]

You never responded to it, except to misread me >.>

I guess now that you've been reasonable and listened to my arguments, I'll go back to it. I read it, that's for sure. I just don't think I saw anything in there to respond to:

Fate: Now would be a fantastic time for you to reveal your reasoning for attacking esurio Day 1. Your continued resitance to reveal this is scummy. I would also love to know why you suddenly jumped on Starbuck after spending the best part of the day asking people to vote for esurio. In fact, why were you asking people to join your wagon? Why weren't you trying to prove scumminess? Your play reeks. The entire game you have been antagonisticand unhelpful, you've used the classic reaction fishing excuse, you've attacked a confirmed townie constantly with limited reason and all sorts of things. Your only redeeming point is your voting of Jeromus, which really seems like scum taking an oppurtuinity of what (to them) would've seemed to be a bad townie. You just got lucky (as far as town points go) and found your traitor, didn't you? Also, I believe we can safely assume thaat Jeromus' interactions on day 1 mean little to nothing, and I know that he intensely dislikes your play.

Hmmm a couple things to reply to I see. I'll start with the easiest and work down:
1. I jumped on Starbuck because she was my #2 after Esu, and I wasn't going to stay on Esu after bv310's softclaim.
2. My play certainly does reek of being odd, attacking with limited reasoning, withholding cases, etc. It is just how I do things. I certainly acted "oddly enough" that the scum never felt threatened to NK me and I suppose they always thought they could lynch me (part of my strategy as cop was to avoid being NK'd, obviously). But I didn't get "lucky" with Jeromus. I genuinely believed pwnman to be town with his claim and the way his wagon formed and did not want to kill our PR for scum. Jeromus then basically outed himself with that scumlist and I switched to him.
3. Well I feel silly laying out a case on now confirmed town, but I really did think Esu was a good lynch (information wise at least), at least better than Starbuck was yesterday (pre-claims). Her interactions with Jeromus, the continuing to want to lynch Pwnman, etc. My ISO #55 is where I started to tunnel her a little too hardcore (before that I was giving her a bit of a pass).

If it makes you feel any better about my play, (well I'll wait for the flip to gloat), but my "bad choices" and "scummy play" made the scum suicide themselves on to me, thinking that "hey even after he flips town he was still the right lynch so we won't catch much heat for it." Too bad all the reasonable townies (Iam, then Esu, now Azh) didn't think the same way.

[Fate]

Yeah Vaya. Now would be a great time to come up with that case you had on farside d2, but were too lazy to put forth. Seeing as you're now at L-1, mind letting is know exactly why you wanted to shoot farside in the first place?

[Fate]

Oh and lets not forget the so called cop got the same results on me as seven. So your logic in voting on me is what Iam?

You DON'T get to have it both ways. You can't think I'm scum and then use my results as a defense. "Fate's obvscums his results mean nothing..." "Hey Iam the "cop" has a same result on me as a townie, why are you lynching me?"

No. Not gonna fly.

@Iam: Well if scum thought I was naive, and I had an innocent on Farside (scum), they would be

that

much more inclined to get me to flip. Especially if sanity doesn't reveal on death (I'm used to IRC mafia, where it always does), then I would flip "Cop" with an innocent on scumFarside. Explains their urgency to lynch me, and when I changed my claim they just continued pushing me as the easiest lynch for "lying."

As for Vaya > Farside, I'll vote either one at the moment. Vaya's certainly been more scummy during the day, and is a much better lynch than Farside. Sure, Farside tracking Vaya to nowhere doesn't add up. But so does Vaya CLAIMING to shoot Farside ahead of time. They both have scummy night choices+day play, but Vaya's play during the day has been worse.

So, Farside voters, why Farside and not Vaya?

[Fate]

Where's wolf? Hammer business aside, I don't see why his role isn't more clear.

Are you a bodyguard or a doctor? If you are a bodyguard both you and Vaya should have died last night. It would confirm that Vaya doesn't have a shot at all.

I can't flavor metagame any of the vampire kills or whatever. So Azhrei and Farside are both claimed vampires? But the flavor N1 suggested a vampire kill? Maybe the "vampire" scum sent in the kill, and the other one sent it in N2.

Farside actually looks worse than Vaya right now. The past couple pages Farside has done nothing but defend, she hasn't scumhunted in a single post since she was riding me hard for my night choices.

Vaya at least is coming up with scumpairs and such. This doesn't really explain how Farside didn't die last night (scum hider doesn't sound right, maybe vampires don't die from bullets?), which is why I'd like clarification from Wolf about whether he's a doctor or not.

Unvote

Vote: Farside

[Fate]

Sorry my life's been really crazy recently. So I haven't had a lot of time to post my thoughts. Just wanted to respond to a couple things real quick.

@Fate
I have a question for you. You stated:

I don't know why everyone assumes, "oh investigate whoever you find scummiest during the day." As good cop play.

Yet in PYP2 you got after bouncy for not investigating you when bouncy had her vote on you all of Day 1 and as a rolecop had investigated RayFrost. Isn't that the same thing?

No it's not the same thing. First of all rolecop is much different than regular cop. The rolecop has to target someone who is likely to claim the next day. Second, bouncy chose his targets completely randomly, I actually have reasons behind my choices: I couldn't read those players well.

As for the curse making my investigation fail, I'm not sure if it effected my results or that I would not receive any results if I failed. Something to keep in mind I guess.

Still keeping my vote on Farside because she continues to push the idea that I'm insane as a defense when before she didn't believe me at all. I'll definitely be back before the deadline later to see where things are at.

[Fate]

Still keeping my vote on Farside because she continues to push the idea that I'm insane as a defense when before she didn't believe me at all. I'll definitely be back before the deadline later to see where things are at.

Do you find my question to Iam invalid? Do you think a so called cop that has results on someone they claimed (who flipped town) would push a case on someone they received the same results on?
Why?
And the only person I questioned about your so called claim was Iam asking him why he believes you but still finds me scum. Where is the flaw in this logic?
I love how Fate has twisted what I said and not responded to my questions or comments at all on my case.
Seriously why is this guy not being called out by anyone else?

Your "case" is completely based on "connections" between Vaya (who I will kill in this post, and wanted to earlier) and Iam (sbuddying between scumbuddies, come on now...) So yeah, not much to respond to.

Paranoia explains easily why I can still vote for you safely without being hypocritcal or against my own claims, because despite my inspect I am still highly wary of your play.

We'll save you for tomorrow though.

Unvote:

Vote: Vaya

[Fate]

Guilty on Azhrei. Was really hoping I'd get an innocent and I could go into my dissertation on how Azhrei+Farside was the team, Farside was the godfather (IT EXLPLAINS WHY HE DIDNT DIE FROM VAYA'S SHOT) and we could all live happily ever after to a win.

Now, unless its a Esu+Iam team: lolwut? I'm paranoid.

Now, let's recap on why Farside+Azhrei are scum. The wagon was building on Farside over Vaya, Azhrei champions the Vaya lynch. He sets up my mislynch for "when Vaya flips town."

Farside is scum because of D2 play. Seven flips Role cop. Pwnman was basically confirmed Watcher/Doc. If farside was truly a Tracker/Coward, that's three power roles.

WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD THINK SCUM DONT HAVE A ROLEBLOCKER?

Farscum. That's who.

Got any "helpful" "tracking" results for us Far?

Vote: Farside

Strong

FOS: Azhrei

. Iam is much less likely her partner with that Farside vote yesterday. Also, Azhrei's post yesterday: "I literally have no read on Farside. Like, at all" No comment on the tracking results? Completely no read at all? Sounds exactly like Jeromus who had shit for reads.

Let's go town.

[Fate]

If fate truely was insane why is he voting for me and not for Iam?

He claims he checked seven, myself and now ahz. If he really was insane that means one of iam/esu is scum.
however with bv310 claim, flip and the points of soft claiming that should be obviously be Iam as scum then.

Now he's stating the following:

Now, let's recap on why Farside+Azhrei are scum. The wagon was building on Farside over Vaya, Azhrei champions the Vaya lynch. He sets up my mislynch for "when Vaya flips town."

This is after he pushed a Vaya/farside scum team because of my following of Vaya.

Fate you still never answered my question about knowing the scum team would all have power roles.

I also love that he is putting myself and Azh as scum team together with a so called investigation that gave him the same results. Unless he absolutely, positively knows he's paranoid this is just crap logic.

Finally guess who I followed that went to Wolf.

vote: Fate

Tracking me to wolf? Excellent. Now there's no lingering doubt in my mind. God I wish Azhrei didn't convince to lynch Vaya yesterday.

Also, from your POV, this means that I'm the killer of the scum team. And that one of the vanillas is the Power role. Why wouldn't they fakeclaim Cop to explain any track results they got, and I claim vanilla?

Yeah ok.

Anyway, I'm not insane. Like I said, my guilty result on Azhrei PROVES IM PARANOID barring a Esu+Iam scumteam (two people I haven't scanned.)

Your continued posts of "I want to make use of your results but I can't Fate! Grrrr" Screams of Godfather. At least you go to use the kill immunity, so cheer up. Also, IIRC, Azhrei said his flavor described him as "difficult to kill." I wouldn't be surprised if both scum were immune to Jayne's shot.

In retrospect I probably should have waited for Farside to claim first before voting me, but I'm betting (with Azhrei's posts yesterday) their plan was to have me as the final mislynch all along.

[Fate]

You still refuse to answer: After a Role cop flip and a Watcher/Doc claim, why do you think Scum DON'T have another PR?

Also, I picked Azhrei because it was down to Iam/Azhrei for your partner. I choose Azhrei because I don't think I am would start bussing you when Vaya was at L-1.

I went paranoid with the Vaya/Farside pairing, I'll admit. Like I said, we should've lynched Farside yesterday on the basis that she was a godfather and that would explain why she didn't die, as opposed to lynching Vaya and if she flipped scum she

must

have been with Farside.

I haven't avoided the question on why I push a case on someone I had the same results on town as. I've also countered with the fact that you want to use my results to defend yourself too much when you think I've scum.

Answer this question if you can: If I was so likely scum, why did you waste your night action on me? Besides the implausibility of me being the "Goon" (aka killer) last night and claiming cop, why on earth wouldn't you want to confirm one of the vanillas? You could've tracked either Azhrei or Iam. You would've gone one of two resutls: Went nowhere (confirmed vanilla), or went to Wolf.

So why track me?

[Fate]

On top of that, who is my partner Farside and why?

Also:

WAKE UP PEOPLE DAY HAS STARTED? I'm all alone as town in here...

[Fate]

A whole day goes by and only the two potential lynches are talking. Great.

On top of that, who is my partner Farside and why?

You're throwing all your cards on the table to get me mislynched. I don't know why you think town will fall for this.

I have a very strong reason to believe you are GF. You have comfired yourself as scum to me with a fake track result, and the only thing that explains you not dying to Vaya's shot is godfather.

I know what a hider does. You hid behind ESU, right? Then why didn't ESU die when Vaya shot you!? Because you didn't hide. You are the a Kill-immune GF.

Like I said. I would not be surprised if Azhrei was kill immune as well (to vaya, maybe not to the SK), to balance out the power town had this day.

I still stand by the fact that if you were town you would have tracked someone else. Did you have reason to believe that it was Iam+Azhrei (the only two vanillas) and thus tracked me to "make sure?" BS. You would have gained far more information from tracking a vanilla than me from your "town" POV.

I'm not stating it as a fact. But if I were a tracker and tracked someone nowhere and then they claimed 1-shot vig that fits that result, I would not STILL be so suspicious of them and tunneling them.

I'd also like to point out how you jumped on the ESU wagon that led to her and Bv130's softclaim:

Actually Fate reminds me of ABR in a mason/monk game we were in where he would vote and make comments but be vague on reasoning for his vote. Day 1 do to his method he found scum that reminds me a lot of what esu is acting like in here.

unvote:
vote:esurio

I also did, and implore the rest of town to do, an ISO of Farside, CTRL+F-Azhrei.

She speaks to him directly a grand total of once D1, and besides that only mentions him in passing.

NOW I do the same for Azhrei with respect to farside:

Vaya, Farside alluded to not being able to be killed during the day yesterday, you probably missed it. Anyhow, onto the scum.

Soft defense of Farside's claim.

ITT Vaya > Farside.


I could easier see Vaya/Fate, Vaya/Iam than i could Farside/Iam or Farside/Fate. However, Vaya/Farside trumps that, I just think Vaya is the better lynch, partly because I cannot read Farside. Like, cannot read her at all.

This quote is one of the SOLE reasons I switched my investigation from Iam to Azhrei last night. This is the post that steered the wagon back to Vaya. HE says later in this post, "If Vaya flips town, Fate is dead tomorrow. So so dead."

@Azhrei, why? How was I linked to Vaya that his town flip would inherently make me scum, ESPECIALLY since you say THIS about FARSIDE:

Now, whilst you being connected to Farside isn't inherently scummy unless one of you flips scum, nor inherently townie in the inverse situation, it doesn't mean that it isn't a damn good reason to lynch you

Apparently Vaya's flip says NOTHING about Farside to you, but a Vaya townie flip automatically makes me scum?

Also don't bother answering the, "who am I scum with Azhrei" because I know you'll just bring up your bogus Iam+Fate buddying scum theory. Which, all game, has been over-exaggerated by scum. I don't even remember the last time I called Iam town, other than he has good reasoning and could see where I was coming from.

I believe what I'm reading from everyone is "I wouldn't mind a Vay lynch".

So, uh, why aren't you guys voting Vaya? I think 5 or 6 people have either voted or stated they find Vaya scummy. So, uh, why are there only two people currently voting Vaya?

*looks confused*

"WHY ARE WE STARTING TO LYNCH FARSIDE? NOW BACK TO VAYA NOW!" Without the caps, of course. That's what this post screams of.

See what I'm doing farside? Scumhunting for your partner. If I'm confirmed scum to you, why aren't you looking for my partner at all?

You're acting like the game is over if I'm lynched.
Oh wait. From your POV

IT IS.

[Fate]

Second my tracking was just proven by a dead townie that flipped one shot vig. Vaya didn't go anywhere night one and I tracked you to wolf. So your strawman doesn't really work here.

LOL. So, because you tracked a

claimed One shot vig

going nowhere D1 when he himself claimed to have not shot N1, you're a proven tracker?

I know what a hider does. You hid behind ESU, right? Then why didn't ESU die when Vaya shot you!? Because you didn't hide. You are the a Kill-immune GF.

Now this is bull. A person doesn't change shots when a player hides. The shot just doesn't hit and you know that. Nice misinterpret of a role.
But just to humilate you more on your false hood.

Let me dig it up.

If the player targeted is killed that same night, the Hider dies too.

Ah, you're right. Well, that explains why bv310 died and not ESU. To support your claim. Because better scum play at that point would have been to RB Wolf and kill Esu.

My view is I saw 2 people I said I found scum yesterday and I want hope to prove I'm correct. Tracking Fate to the person dead means he's lying scum. Your not explaining why tracking a townie does anything. Didn't you just give me shit for tracking Vaya and still voting on her day 2 for being scummy on day 1 even with her going now where it didn't clear her and why it should you still haven't explained

Tracking a townie confirms them as a vanilla. Does that mean they're town? Very, very likely yes. As I said before the evidence of a RB is clear. Is having a confirmed townie in LyLo a bad thing? Also the fact that if you hit my "obvpartner" Iam, you would've nailed the scumteam. Basically, from your POV, one of Iam and Azhrei is scum with me. Why didn't you track them to confirm?

So, from your POV: Track one of Iam and Azhrei, you either 1. Find town, or 2. Find my partner. 50% shot.

I was a claimed cop. I was going somewhere no matter what, so why did you track me? What if I had inspected wolf anyway, and said "I wanted to see if Seven's curse made my inspect mess up, so I inspected who I thought would die again." Then you wouldn't even have me as confirmed scum.

On a related note, because I can't wait to postgame to rage about this: IF PWNMAN HAD BEEN FRICKIN AROUND TO SAY "I WAS RBED" THIS WHOLE BS WITH FARSIDE TRACKING WOULDN'T EVEN BE AN ISSUE.

That is all. Consider that as part of my case as well. The watcher/doc was left, alive? And scum supposedly doesn't have a blocker? Why would they risk the NK failing, Scumside?

@Esu: Wow. That sounds like a very stressful situation. Hope all goes well

@Iam: Come on, help us.

@Azh: Come in here and either buss farside or throw all your cards on the table. I'm waiting.

[Fate]

Mod: Can we get a prod on Iam and Azh yet, or is it too early for that still?

Also, as far as I'm concerned, a RBer is confirmed because remember, I should have gotten powers from Bv310 the night he died.

Wow I missed that, EXCELLENT point.

What say you Farside? (I have an idea what she will say, of course).

[Fate]

This should be good.

[Fate]

Why are people believing a proven liar?

Town has motivation to lie sometimes. I'm actually quite glad that everyone (with the exception of Vaya) is putting aside policy lynching and believing me, especially without having played with me before (I do this sort of thing quite often.)

What Fate has avoided to comment about:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 14#2181814

That's my own post. I correctly voted for scum until Azhrei changed my mind, what do you want me to comment on?

Who here really thinks that tracking someone you believe is scum is not the smart thing to do so you have proof you are right in your belief?

Who here really thinks tracking someone nowhere when the evidence and probability of there being a scum roleblocker is high and voting that person, instead of one's preferred scum reads.

Farside. Now that you're pushing that I'm a "proven liar", etc. Why the hell did you vote Vaya yesterday? Did you think I was scum with Vaya? Why?

By the way Fate I have proven scum in my view by tracking you to Wolf who is dead. I still haven't heard a cop who wants to "investigate" someone who was killed night 1 and then choose to target someone who was planned for death by a claimed vig. How has your role been proven?

I haven't heard of a cop who wants to investigate someone who gets killed N1 either, problem is, I didn't know (or think) someone as random as Seven would die. Tbh, I thought you would die Farside for being a good player. Huhuhuhuh. Either way, we got lucky and didn't have waste a mislynch on a paranoid result.

Iam

You should have totally waited for Azhrei to post. Now he

has

to bus Farside and then beg town to believe him tomorrow. If you had left him to his own devices he may have voted me, (you know, the whole I'm "so so dead" if Vaya flips town thing.)

But I can understand you being trigger happy. It feels good to catch Farside as scum, I know.

Speaking of which,

Oh and lets not forget the so called cop got the same results on me as seven. So your logic in voting on me is what Iam?

HAHAHHAHA. I'm a proven liar from your POV, why the hell are you still saying this? From anyone else' POV, if they believe I'm town, I just said I got a guilty on Azhrei instead. THEREFORE since Iam and Esu know they aren't scum with each other, I'm paranoid. Are you begging Iam not to vote you now?

Also post of the game:

Oh look here is Fate's scum partner not giving any reasoning and placing me at L-2 with no reason. Awesome.

Please someone point something pro-town in this post

This is the summary of the case on Iam+Myself. "THEY'RE SO OBVIOUSLY BUDDIES THEY MUST SCUM TOGETHER!" Yeah, our whole plan was to be on all the lynches together.

Farside, you still haven't said

one word about Azhrei

since D1. Why can he/can he not be, my scumbuddy? VERY interested in hearing that.

But of course, the most interesting stance,

Will be Azhrei. Backed into a corner of his own campaign promises, will he go after me? Will the more likely scumpair vote against the unlikely scumpair? Leaving Esu to hammer in an epic sudden death LyLo situation? Or will he try to salvage this situation!?

THE SUSPENSE.
IS KILLING ME.
AND TONY LAUGHS IN THE BACKGROUND!

[Fate]

Iam-Votes Seven for "obvious reasons" (not explaining them), BEFORE I vote ES. But no one jumps on Iam for that-or even mentions it- like ES and friends jumps on me. Makes me think I hit scum.

I haven't seen anything Iam has posted as particularly scummy, but that doesn't make him town by default. Farside and Iam are in the same category for me: good players. They are good at looking town-valuable for both alignments-and can only be read effectively after several days of Voting history and NK choices.

1. It isn't a cop out if I already gave the reasons.
2. Iam+Fate buddying? Last time I checked here are the two prime examples of buddying:

Es+Jeromus: Jeromus defends ES and goes so far as to vote her attacker (me). Jeromus calls ES critical town

Fate+Iam: Iam explains the possible town-motivations behind Fate's play. Iam seems understanding of what Fate is doing. Iam does NOT vote Fate's attackers. Fate says Iam is a good player, and is difficult to read. Iam and Fate agreed on Jeromus' lynch, seeing the same scumtells. Iam and Fate agreed on Starbuck's tells.

So if people are ever together on a lynch they are buddying? I'm not quite sure I understand this position other than, "well don't vote me for buddying when THEY WERE DOING IT TOOOO"-paraphrased ES, which is a scummy position to take.

This is getting old actually. Esu, if you care, you can ISO me and Ctrl+F.

Also, Farside, yes I said that you mentioned Azhrei once D1. And you quoted it. The next quote of you "about Azhrei" is talking about how neutral he is and how wishy washy your stance on him is, ok.

Azhrei is clearly frustrated scum, not knowing what to do. Don't hold your breath on his account, Esu.

[Fate]

"Thanks for voting Iam when it is between me and Farside today."

*Azhrei posts again, without unvoting Iam first*

"Thanks for putting all your eggs in one basket, and essentially giving up if Farside is indeed lynched."

1% Fate Farside? Wouldn't bussing her than mislynching you tomorrow be standard scumplay on my part?

Surely, as "town" you should see at least some possibility of this play?

I don't give a crap about this game any more.

Oh wait, you've given up.

SUSPENSE HAS BEEN BUILT. WERE AT THE CLIMAX.

ESU.

IT
IS
UP
TO
YOU!

Also, Azhrei, if you're going to risk your whole scum team on my mislynch, why not post more than an AtE for Esu to lynch me? Or you know, defend Farside's actions or something?

Meh. What would've REALLY been awesome is if you had lynched Farside, NK'd me (Hold on, I really think I'm a better target than Esu) and then went for the FARSIDE+IAM team tommorow and tried to get Esu to lynch Iam.

Just because there would be no chance in hell I'd vote Iam over you in 3p.
But meh, I'll save the rest of the critique for post-game (might forget these thoughts in a week or so)

[Fate]

Ok, if Azhrei isn't going to try and convince Esu I'll do it for him:

Hai. Esu you're a girl right? Don't you have emotions to appeal to!?

Don't you have a real case, like, you know, why Iam+Fate played the way we did yesterday?

Well, you tried to get Vaya lynched, and came up with the whole "Farside is scum with him" theory, which failed when Vaya flipped town, so now you're selling a "Farside is Godfather" theory.

Yes, but if Iam is scum with me, why did Iam vote Farside instead of Vaya? Why didn't she hammer Vaya?

So that when Farside flipped Tracker/Coward...

Vaya would've been NIGH CONFIRMED TOWN. No way scum would claim OSV and shoot at someone they didn't know was a hider. Then, Iam and I would have had, 2/3 confirmed town in LyLo (Esu, Wolf, and Vaya), and we would have HAD to mislynch you, Azhrei, or bus eachother.

Then you woulda bussed. Once one of you flipped scum the other could easily say, "hah so he was scum buddying up to me. Azhrei is the last scum! (among a Vaya/Esu, Fate, Azh 3p)

So, our

plan

was to go into a 5p LyLo with 3 confirmed townies and bus eachother? I thought bussing was a last minute resort kind of thing, not good scumplay. Kind of like how you aren't bussing Farside now. Plus Iam/Me flipping scum doesn't really make the other look

that

much better at all.

Whatever, I'm done caring. You played well Fate *clap* BRILLIANT! *gives up*

EDWOP: Nah I don't give up. ESU YOU CAN STILL BELIEVE ME! SEARCH YOUR HEART! YOU KNOW IT TO BE TRUE!

Votecount: Blah blah blah, just lynch someone so I can come up with an awesome death scene and then go to night/endgame. And then I can explain how farside's high status on MS forced my hand to modkill Pwnman because that is what I had said I would do in the BaM ruleset, etc. Don't you guys love the flavor?

I still haven't seen a single one of these shows, so I can't answer that. Thanks for hosting though!

Disclaimer: I'm not quoting the mod in any way shape or form and the above quote is for entertainment purposes.

[Fate]

Oh lord, Azhrei wasn't scum?

[Fate]

I WAS INSANE?

SO SWITCHING TO AZHREI AS MY TARGET LOST THE GAME?


NOOOOOOOOOO!

Tony must have laughed so hard...

[Fate]

Argh. I want to say, "well if we had hammered Farside I would've hammered Azh in LyLO anyway," but I would've gotten a town inspect on Iam...

Ah the regrets, they're setting in. I investigated Iam cause I had no read on him, and then switched to Azh because I thought they were a team.

GG scum.

Thanks for hosting TM...

Argh.

[Fate]

The only reason I thought you were scum was your claim Farside, so yeah I'll still trust you.

But Iam.... IAM!!

*shakes fist*

[Fate]

More post game rage:

Holy hell Vaya you really need to stop acting scummy. You were RIGHT about Farside, but you did nothing to convince town of it. You never did post that case on her...

And because of that, Azhrei convinced town of lynching YOU over Farside.

If we had lynched Farside that day, I think we could have broken this game open.

That is all.

[Fate]

WHAT!

So Wolf targeted Farside twice with his Joatiness!

My god, that means TWO people probably "killed" Farside and she got away with it.

Very interested in seeing the night action resolutions.

Also, this means I was cursed but luckily my actions never failed. Not that they were worth anything -_-

[Fate]

Oh simul posted.

Night 3
Wolf - Pray for Esu (redirect to self, no effect)
-Fate - investigate iam ("innocent")-
Fate - investigate Az ("guilty")

NO NOW MY SHAME IS OUT THERE FOR ALL TO SEE

*facepalm*

[Fate]

So, I would've flipped insane? If they had killed me N3 that would've left Esu and Wolf as confirmed town, with Azhrei the only mislynch target. Plus putting 2+2=Godfather should've been cake for everyone remaining.

Also, the game as a whole is always punished for flakers. I expected Pwnman to be modkilled because those were the rules, the replacement just really got my hopes up.

There's no way to avoid this except to blacklist him from future BaM games until there is eventually a "BaM approved" player list.

Wolf's hammer ability really did confirm him. He's a tough guy to read, and a "I'm a JOAT but I don't know what I do to the target" just smells of creative fakeclaim.

Imagine if Wolf had stolen ESU's vote N3 Or given him one or killed him! Oh man! This game could've went so many different ways (the SK being left alive to kill, the Watcher/Doc being useful, the Role Cop stopping fakeclaims) I would love to play it again.

Also if Wolf had blocked Farside N1 and she had been "confirmed town" in his eyes because he would've though he protected her!

Definitely down for the next one. Love the roles.

There's only one thing left....

SCUM QUICK TOPIC!

*begs scumteam*

[Fate]

Well you did a good job setting up Vaya's mislynch and not saying a single word about either Farside or Iam. Also you helped me tunnel Esu with your flip! So don't think your play was bad, sometimes getting Lynched D1 can make the town "complacent"

The only thing you did wrong was really, really hate me. But Azhrei took that as you just hating my play later on, and not me being town, so I guess he WIFOM'd out of it.

[Fate]

Oh wow, I was hoping there was a loophole in the rules. Azhrei never unvoted Iam to vote me at LyLo!

Damn BaM rules.... Unvoting not being necessary, BAH!

Upon a re-read Iam and Farside did an excellent job of distancing. I would have never expected Iam without an investigation result, which was the original reason I investigated him /sigh

[Fate]

Haven't played a single FF game, (besides FFTactics), so I'll

/nominate+Pre-in for a Bastard Mass Effect game.

I don't care if it's not fair, as long as it is just as fun for the mod as it is for the players.

[Fate]

Who? What? When?

*has flashbacks*

NOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOPLASCUMMMM

[Fate]

Read the Quicktopic, you were obvpower apparently.

Then again, everyone except Azhrei was obvpower

>__>
<__<