Mini 929: Whedonesque Mafia (Game Over)

[Azhrei]

Why, hello everyone...

Vote: Seven

Anyone trying to include magic numbers in their name must be doing it for a reason!

[Azhrei]

Vaya - I've never played with you before, so I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on this lurking business, but I really do hope you keep true to your word and don't. Annoyingly, it isn't even a tell, as you don't only do it as scum, or only as town.

Oh well...

However, I find farside's aggression to you for this, well, intriguing. I understand that playing with someone who is a renowned lurker, especially in a no-replacements game, would be frustrating, but seeing as so far, Vaya has been as active as anyone else, its a tad odd as an opener.

So why the aggression, Farside? The others seemed a little more reasonable about it, and in fact only commented after you did, but you went straight in for a personal attack.

[Azhrei]

Understandable - I've doen tyhe same myself. But, it just seems an odd reason, is all. Why that, as opposed to, say, the mild bandwagon on Seven, a slight meta on someone you've played with before, even Vaya's reasonless vote? Or something else I missed entirely?

[Azhrei]

Actually, now that I think of it, why didn't you mention the mid bandwagoning and Vaya not providing a reason for his vote when you mentioned the lurking?

[Azhrei]

I don't know seven and

I voted based on meta of vaya.

3 players voting for seven is not a bw in my view.
Most people vote either BW or no reason in RVS it's not always noteworthy and sometimes it is.
In this case I looked at the player list and saw vaya and recalled her lurkering ways in another game.

Uhh, Farside. Where's your meta? Vaya lurks as both town and scum - ergo, no tell, no meta. Please explain.

Unvote, Vote: pwnman

bv310, do you agree?

What? Again, please explain.

I haven't played with any of you yet so hello.

What do you know about magic, Az?

Hello to you, too, Seven And I know little, but enough to know seven be a powerful number.

(quotey)

With fear of getting too heavily launched into a debate based on a game tactic we've pinned as annoying, more than suspicious, but Vaya opened with 2 words, then only posted when someone called her out for lurking. I believe this warrants frustration, if, admittedly, not suspicion.

By this same token, others have done similar things already - I just don't see the reason for singling out Vaya so early on. There is in fact, a player who has not posted...

Unvote, Vote: Fate

Come out, come out, wherever you are.

[Azhrei]

@Those who found me overprotective: Its a tendency of mine when I see something I see as unfair to attack it. I just don't like unfair treatment of a player. (Or, at least, what I percieve as unfair). I do find it odd that Vaya hasn't posted since I started saying things though..

@Farside: It would seem our view on meta are different, I'll accept that.

@Iamusername and the pwnman votes, no time now to respond. Sorry, I'll post again in a couple of hours.

[Azhrei]

Perhaps you should've kept an eye on the topic, Fate? Oh well, at least you're here now.

Unvote

@Euriospiritus: I don't see it as a misrep. I've done similar things as town, and seen others do that, and in fact seen him do that in a previous game.

@iamusername: So sorry for reacting to your odd vote. Isn't that what you just said you wanted? Reactions? Sigh. You've evidently taken a dislike to me already, judging by your tone. When someone votes (seemingly) at random, asks someone else whether agrees, I do find it a tad odd. Especially when the game has more or less moved past the random stage, from what I'm seeing.

However, your explanation makes sense to me, thank you for that. Perhaps had it not been so late at night when I asked for that explanation, I might've not needed it. *shrug*

As a comment on the deadlines, while short, they're not too bad. I've played in games on another site (bunch of idiots obsessed with fast games) in which deadlines were 48 hours. Even then you can sometimes manage to find scum - I think the best thing to do with such deadlines is to not panic, and do our best to not rush - the more we panic, the more we rush, the more power the scum have. At the same time, we can't relax, and lurking would be terribly destructive.

[Azhrei]

Woops, cross posted with Vaya.

Vaya, what's your view on my defense of you? You neglected to mention it.

[Azhrei]

Thanks for the PM that the game had started TM... -_-

No one else got one -.-

Psh. I was waiting for you to post in PYP, then I figured your game would've been up... See! Lurking is infective!

Vote: Azhrei

Don't like his posts. He attacks farside for a random vote, and then, seemingly out of nowhere votes me to get me to post?

When I last played, voting someone to get them to post, especially in early game, was fairly common. Did something shange in the last 6 or so months? I really can't see how that warrants being reason for voting me, especially seeing as i unvoted as soon as you posted. Seems like jumping on something small to me.

And it wasn't a random vote. Perhaps reading the game properly might help you here?

[Azhrei]

@iamusername: So sorry for reacting to your odd vote. Isn't that what you just said you wanted? Reactions? Sigh. You've evidently taken a dislike to me already, judging by your tone.

I seriously have no idea where you're getting this from.

From playing mafia on too little sleep before breakfast. :/ I'm sorry for that, I misred your first line as sarcastic towards my asking for an explanation. I think perhaps I'll avoid mafia until AFTER I've eaten in future.

@ Fate: Just because a vote is in the RVS stage doesn't make it random. Farside's vote was clearly for her past experience of Vaya's play, and not random. And I did find it mildly suspicious you hasn't posted as yet, and have often found that a vote gets intentional lurkers to come out of the woodwork, as they panic. Seeing as you didn't come out until being prodded, it seems more likely you weren't lurking. I also considered the vote to be unlikely to cause any irreperable harm, as you had no votes on you, and no likelihood of a bandwagon existed. It accomplished what I wished it to - helped ensure you weren't intentionally lurking - and provoked discussion. Addmitedly, not the discussion I was looking for, but discussion nontheless.

No Jeromus reply? Sigh.

in fact

seen him do that in a previous game.

Acknowledged. Do you have a link handy?

Sorry, I don't, and I have homework to do, so I don't really have the time to. Maybe tomorrow.

I've played in games on another site (bunch of idiots obsessed with fast games) in which deadlines were 48 hours.

Gamefaqs, by any chance? They all have no lives there, so 48 hours is plenty for them. <_<

@Fate; Seven -- any reason you don't have a vote down on anyone?

And no, Warring Factions. They're just noobs.

I find pwnman somewhat scummy in his irrational fear of bandwagoning, but that game does provide more than enough reason for it (what a fail town..), so it seems somewhat of a null-tell, perhaps slightly scummy.

[Azhrei]

Hey, uh, Fate...

Did you read Seven's description of playstyle? It was hardly the best one. I'd likely have joined the bandwagon if it weren't already at L-3 or L-2 (not quite sure on the votes). Even if he is telling the truth, and it is how he plays as town, its hardly good town play. Kinda like how voting for someone with no reason and then asking them to make a case on themselves is not good town play (and a mite suspicious I might add. Why bother making a bogus case as scum if you can con the townie into doing it themselves?). I don't think playstyle is lynch-worthy, but its about the most substantial thing we've got to go on at the moment. Personally, I'm waiting on his answers before I say anything further.

And, it allows for discussion, the application of pressure, and for more useful tells to appear.

It seems odd to me that you vote someone for that, and then act as if your vote is any more justified than theirs. (Hint: It isn't).

Also, Jeromus, get a hair cut

I might post a little catch-up on my thought on players/the game as whole a little later, partially to get it sorted out in my head, partially to get it out there. As it is, I'm going out soon, so not just now.

p.s.

Mod: Could we get a votecount, please?

[Azhrei]

Fate, are you reading the game? or are you intentionally misrepresenting things? I'm trying to decide whether you're incredibly scummy, or just bad.

I'm curious, how many games are you in?

After reading seven's post, I understand what he was trying to say earlier. I can see the wisdom in your playstyle, although if too many people do it, it won't work Nontheless, I'm happy to let you do that, provided you do start playing more outwardly reasonably soon.

[Azhrei]

wolf, I honestly think Fate is a better vote. I'm waiting for a response to the questions asked of him. After that, I'll make up my mind. I'm leaning strongly towards voting him, but I would like to see his attempt (or lack thereof) of an explanation, first.

On the topic of pwnman I think that he's being annoying and lurky, but not lynchworthy

just

yet.

[Azhrei]

Fate, you responded, well... Exactly how I expected. I really dislike players like you. You play in way too many games at once (the only person I've ever seen handle that many games well was zwtchenwasser...), and play none of them well (I'll admit, I've read none of your other games, but take it as a playstyle meta). The worst bit is you think you play them well, and you don't hesitate to insult others about it. Actually, I lied, the worst bit is how you do it as both scum and town, but you can never tell which. And yet, it is inevitable that you get lynched pretty quick. If you're town, then it's a wasted lynch - really, not much comes out of it. If you're scum - well, I feel sorry for your buddies, but it still doesn't help me find them, 'cause they're smart enough to run away as soon as they see you playing like this. I just feel like its a waste of a day, but keeping you around is always unwise.. (lylo situation + player like you = fail)

Might I make a suggestion? You seem to be a reasonably intelligent person. Try playing less games. Maybe go back and play a newbie game or two. Slow down, and think about things. You'll probably find decidedly less D1 lynches, and decidedly less people disliking you. Of course, I'd say you're probably going to ignore all of this, insult me, call me scum, maaaaybe vote me, and then rage in general, claim something, and get lynched.

But I would like to be surprised...

----

To everyone else, here is my reasoning for belief that Fate is a necessary lynch, and possibly scum, all the way through:

(shtuff about his early absence)

Vote: Azhrei

Don't like his posts. He attacks farside for a random vote, and then, seemingly out of nowhere votes me to get me to post?

He just votes me me because he "Do(es)n't like my posts". He goes to a slight clarification by mentioning things I've done, slightly misrepresenting me, as I see it (perhaps point of view here on the terminology of 'random vote').

After another post responding to myself (not going to quote it here, it's rather large, and this post is getting big as it is, and I responded to it earlier) and a somewhat insulting post at Esurio's stuff up regarding votes, he just suddenly drops his entire aggression on me, in favour of attacking, well, half the players in this game.

The wagons on Seven, Vaya, and Pwnman are all based off people disagreeing with their playstyles. (Cautious, Lurking, and BW fearful respectively)

Fate does not approve.

Notice here how, again, he doesn't really explain

why

he disapproves, jsut states what and that he does in fact disapprove. This isn't amazingly scummy, just odd.

Out of the people on the bandwagons you disagree with, who do you think is most likely to be scum?

You.

Vote: esurio

This is about the point where my scumdar (scum radar, for jeromus, if he hasn't encountered the term as yet) started to go off. After being asked a reasonable question, he replies with an answer, however, no explanation as to why he came to this conclusion. The reasoning, really, really is the important part. The best part is when he asked Esurio to make a case for him.

"You're scum!"
"Why?"
"You tell me!"
"Oh, I think I'm scummy because *insert reassons here*"
"See! Even they think they're scummy, look at all of these reasons!"

I'll admit, this would be a stupid gambit to try and pull, but I could see Fate doing it. And it just doesn't fit a townie to try it. Well, not a person playing in the best interests of the town, anyways. He follows up the indignation towards this with:

*quotey*

Tell me why your Seven vote is any better than your Jeromus vote, and I'll consider it.

More and more this smacks of "I just don't have anything and I'm trying to get a bandwagon on you without any reason." It just seems, well, stupid play, to me, for both townie and scum.

(snip snip)

You're overreacting. The implication was that I would consider explaining my vote ES, not switch over to join her on you. Your unprovoked defense is noted, though.

ES is still a better wagon, everyone. If we're going to vote people for not voting, Azhrei is up there too.

I can't be bothered typing out the same thing again. So:

WHY?

Also, this, Fate, is where you're misrepresenting things afain. You've either not read the discussion on Seven at all, or you're deliberately misrepping it. People aren't voting Seven because of not voting, more because of his playstyle (which was somewhat poorly explained earlier, hence the voting on him), which involves keeping low for the start of the game to try to get an objective view on the game post-RVS and other silliness. Not because he wasn't voting - the not voting was merely a result of this playstyle, which is that which he was being voted for. If you'd care to notice, I've been playing differently to that.

For the next few posts he just quotes people and try to string together an argument of scumminess, which I find unconvincing at best, broken and illogical at worst. (Esurio is right, by your own logic, she isn't scum, so far as I can tell through the convolutedness).

From here, he seems to denigrate into petty insults and acting like he's better than those he disagrees with.

For his second last post, he does rally up a little, and at least give it a go, but he still don't seem to give an in depth reason as to why the things he's talking about make Esurio scum.

Gosh, I think that's about everything. In summary, I think that Fatye is either bad-town or bad-scum, and either way, a worthwhile lynch. THis is the most risk-free time to dispose of him, there's a halfway decent chance he's scum, and even if he isn't, he's too big a liability to keep on our hands. Now, I know there are people who disagree with that sort of playstyle, but unless they show me someone who they can show to have a better chance of being scum, I'm staying with Fate.

Which reminds me:

Vote:Fate

----

Prove me wrong Fate. Show me you're not one of those players. I just quickly scanned one of your games, and it doesn't seem consistent. Why are you doing it?

----

Now to wait for the inevitable criticisms, and possibly the pointing out of where I've screwed up and misread something. oh, and where is that pwnman fellow?

[Azhrei]

Oh, didn't even notice Iam's post, blargh. In short, I don't see quite the same oppurtunity for pro-town benefit as you seem to, and it honestly didn't seem like Fate was trying for that, it seemed more like laziness to me. I'd be interested to see your response to my overy large post.

Sorry for the double post + wall of text, everyone.

[Azhrei]

@Everyone: Sorry, I'm away from my normal computer, which has my notes and my half finished post on it. I won't be able to post until at earliest late tonight (AEST) and more likely until tomorrow night. This is my 'oh bugger, I have a full weekend and no time for mafia' post.

I'll actually post substance later, but one thing I must comment from my reading through quickly is Fate's jumping on all the people (including myself) voting for him for not picking on pwnman for the smae reasons. My response: I am oh so sorry I can't post in my sleep, I find pwnman's lack of reason suspicous also. Slow down, Fate, slow down. Also, I dunno if someone else said so, but when you quoted me at one point, it wasn't me who you quoted, it was Seven.

That's all I have time for, sorry.

[Azhrei]

Ok, just quickly, before I post properly, I'm just going to say - sorry Fate - I was out of line, and, in fact wrong. The posts following mine have proved as much. I really did misread you on that part, and I'll not do it again. I'm going to review everythng else, reread the game, and then post again.

[Azhrei]

Also:

Sorry mod, for causing trouble

[Azhrei]

Okey dokey, all reread.

@Fate: I still find your early play scummy, but when I factor in the last couple of pages' worth I can see it as both scum and town. A couple of things.

First of all, and I've said this to people before, just because you are aware that it is a scum tactic does not make you town. It makes you scum that knows what they're doing is scummy

1. Asking someone to make a case on themselves when they have no case of their own is

not

a scum tactic.
2. If I am scum that knows what I am doing is scummy, what scum motivation would I have to knowingly act scummy and draw attention to myself? Oh wait, you think I'm a terrible player. Nevermind.

What you quoted there, was in fact Seven. Both he and I have brought this up, already. In future - please try not to.

In regards to my 165; disregard the personal attacks, I shouldn't have made them, and they were wrong. Again, I apologise. The rest of the case is done away with the 'reaction fishing' play. I'm now unsure of what to think of you, and can see your play as fitting both scum and town, which annoys me (not because of you, but because of my own inability to see what's going on). I hate it when that happens.

As to reaction fishing, I dislike the pretence. Yes, I know what it is. Yes, I know in the hands of a good town player it can be very useful, but, I also know how useful it can be for the scum too. They're looking for power roles and neutrals just as we're looking for them. It's always seemed like a good place for scum to hide for me - and I recall having seen it done. I can't recall where, I haven't played in a while.

I'm going to

Unvote

now.

Also, you still seem to think Esurio is a good place to have your vote. I might've just missed it, but for the life of me, I still can't see you providing a good reason as to why you find her scummy. Could you please either point me at it, or post one. I honestly find her play reasonably townie.

@Pwnman: Some substance, please? I hate to follow others, but really, there's nothing else I can say. Explanations beyond 2 lines, please?

long post in coming:

Azhrei

- post 30 why do you give vaya the benefit of doubt seeing her past games and many people agreeing with her lurkish ways?

I've never played with him myself, and as yet had seen no indication of lurking in this game, so I thought giving Vaya the benefit of the doubt was the sensible thing to do, and didn't wish it to cloud my judgement on him.

Not sure why it's odd to call out players you have meta on. post 32 idk why but if my vote says she is a known lurker why would this question be asked? Looks like a fluff question.

I just disliked you phrasing when asking Vaya if she were going lurk, and found it an odd way to open the game. Not scummy, I can se your motivation, I just wished for further explanation, and it was the only major point of interest in the game so far.

Are you always on the look out for lurkers? What is your belief as far as town or scum when it comes to lurkers.

Yes, I do like to keep an eye out for lurkers. Lurking is a convenient hiding place for those who wish to hide, and a bad place for a town player to be, damaging the town's chance's at victory. I always think it best to bring players out of there. As regards to alignment, I think lurkers are a mixed bag of everything. Lurking is sometimes a gameplay tactic, sometimes sheer laziness, sometimes the result of a posting restriction and sometimes the result of a blue moon. (joke) It doesn't really reflect alignment, but the style of it can. For instance, had Fate come rushing out of nowhere upon my voting him, I'd have found that suspicious, just as I'm finding pwnman's posting only when demanded to suspicious.

post 80 - RVS is random but just because my vote is based on past experience doesn't mean it's not a random. I always look at the list see who I played with and vote for one of them.
It wasn't till recently that I started being on the look out and voting on players with less then stellar plays but it's still a random vote. Just because I don't roll a die or just pick a person off the list doesnt' make my vote any less random.

I think our problem here is a varying definition of randomnity. I'm going for the typical one, which implies that there is no reason for the vote, just picking a name and making something silly. However, I think what you were trying to do was quickly move the game out of the RVS (correct me if I'm wrong, here), by voting with a more serious reason. Going by the textbook definition of random, your votes aren't.

From the Oxford Dictionary: "Having no definite aim or purpose; not sent or guided in a particular direction; made, done, occurring, etc., without method or conscious choice; haphazard."

I find pwnman somewhat scummy in his irrational fear of bandwagoning, but that game does provide more than enough reason for it (what a fail town..), so it seems somewhat of a null-tell, perhaps slightly scummy.

This post is wishy washy.

Badly worded, more'n anything. But oh well. What I was trying to say is "I find pwnman's fear of bandwagoning a null-tell, possibly leaning to the scummy side." I didn't see the hypocrisy at that point, which does tip it into the scummy side, as does the lurking that follows.

post 123: I don't like people who talk about who they will vote but don't vote. Talking about voting doesn't do anything and I see no reason not to vote if your suspicious of someone.

I try to be a cautious voter. Primarily, this is because I'm sometimes without computer access for a day or two (like the past couple of days) and a lot can happen in that amount of time. I don't want to be on a lynch that I don't actually support any more, sort of thing. Hell, ocasionally crazy bandwagons happen overnight, and seeing as I'm Australian, my night is a lot of people's day, making it even worse. See my point?

[Azhrei]

Bah, I go to sleep and I wake up to two V/LA posts and nothing else?

*looks around hopefully for other players*

[Azhrei]

These super long walls of text are killing me. It's making me not want to read the game, please stop?

Sorry starbuck - I know I'm one of those making them - But, I find it easier to expres myself in a verbose fashion, and also finds it leads to better information. I also prefer other players who post in larger amounts, as it gives off a better read.

It's sad how I want to make a wall of text explaining the bevnefits of walls of texts, isn't it? :/

Seeing as not much else is happening, ima just post my thoughts on everyone.

bv310

- Very, very brief. Posts reasonably often, but never says much, and never does much. I would very much like to see more from him.

esuriospiritus

- I'm getting a town read off of her so far. Her reaction to Fate seems like a town one to me.

farside22

- Aggressive. Her posts seem town to me. Already responded to her questions and the like.

Fate

- Has pulled the reaction fishing gambit. I'm not sure what to think of him right now, and it seems I'm going to have to wait for him to return before I get anything further from him.

iamausername

- I've honestly not gotten much off of Iam just yet.. I don't know quite know why, and might reread him in iso.

jeromus

- I'm reading him as town, currently. This is my meta of him, both from his past games and from IRL. Obviously I can't quantify the real life part, but if people wish, I'll quote things from his previous games.

pwnman

- Lurker. Needs to post. Finding what he does post, scummy.

Starbuck

- Slight town read. Hasn't done anything that seems scummy to me.

Seven

- Unconventional playstyle. I don't find him scummy, just odd.

Vaya

- I get this odd feeling when reading her posts. As yet, I can't put my finger on it, but something just doesn't feel right with it all. IGMEOY.

wolframnhart

- Brief. However, what he posts is relevant and clearly states his point. Just a concise player, it seems.

[Azhrei]

I've never played with her before, so I might go about meta-ing her some time to see if I can discern the form of the aggression, but as a general read it seems rather townie to me.

As you may have noted, I haven't played for nigh on a year now, so I don't know a lot of people who were around. And, to be frank, I was pretty terrible back then. In fact, unless any of you are alts of people I have played with before, I don't believe I've played with anyone in this game. :/

[Azhrei]

EBWOP: who are around, I mean.

[Azhrei]

Fate, could you please respond to the part of my 211 that's directed at you? I would really like to know your case on Esurio, and I still can't find it.

Vaya, something is still giving me a bad feeling with your posts. I'm going to reread you when I have a screen bigger than a pancake, so later on tonight. (Stupid school netbook).

Starbuck, the last two pages of your play confuse me. I think I will also reread you. You've overreacted to Iam's questioning on your vote (which was reasonably docile), and voted for... well, not much. Why?

I apologise for the brevity of this post, I'll post something better later on.

[Azhrei]

Fate, just because you're not voting for her any more doesn't make your case irrelevant >.> If you don't have one, just say. If you do have one and aren't willing to say as yet, I'm cool with that. But don't try to tell me it doesn't matter unless you vote her again.. You've spent a good part of today voting for Esurio, I can't find a reason for it, and your repeated refusal to give one, I really don't like.

Sure, I can see you both as bickering town, but I can also see you as scum trying to get a townie lynched, and giving up when it becomes apparent you've not succeeded. I can't really see Esurio as scum here (sure, might be wrong, but still, I don't see it). I'm not convinced enough to vote you right now, but I would really like to get an answer out of you.

I reread Starbuck, and I'm honestly reading her as exasperated town. She was here, relatively active for the early part of the day, then was absent for a few days, and came back with her 'GRAH WALLS OF TEXT ARE KILLING ME' post, and after that, has played markably different, finishing up with her rather odd vote and (as far as I'm seein' it, regardles of what she says), overreaction. But, I'm just not seeing her as scum.

Vaya, I've reread as well, and I still can't figure out what's giving me that bad gut feel.. THis annoys me, and I think i should perhaps reread when I'm not sleeep deprived.

However, where the shit is pwnman? And where's that BV310 fellow? They should

really

post some more. Like, really, really.

In fact,

Vote: Pwnman

. I'm really not seeing any of the other candidates for a lynch as scum as this day draws to a close, and Pwnman is absent, and even when he isn't, only post scummy things. IF he doesn't show up and convince me otherwise, he's who I'm going for.

Also, I think we only have about 1.5 days left till deadline, and I'm pretty sure my vote puts Pwnman at L-2. So, people who aren't voting, people who are voting minor cases, its probably time for you to be thinking. A no-lynch won't end well. Just saying.

[Azhrei]

All i have to say is, blergh.

Unvote

Just so nobody gets trigger-happy before the name-claim gets out.

[Azhrei]

[sarcasm]Wow, Fate, your amazing scumhunting skills convince me completely[/sarcasm]

However,

Vote: jeromus

Why?

Because he followed me straight away on voting pwnman (putting him at l-1, pre-claiming), piggybacking off my reasoning, he followed me and esurio both a little on Fate, his posting has been mostly humorous with little substance, and he hasn't really contributed much of his material. oh, and he keeps insulting me

However, I sense truth in pwnman's claim. With my quick reading of the wiki page on Lorne, the role makes sense. I'd say he'll probably get NK'd tonight, and I agree with Fate, there's no sense doing the scum's work for them.

Oh, and Fate, I will always, always vote for the scummier lurker over the plain lurker. I think the reasoning there is obvious.

[Azhrei]

[sarcasm]Wow, Fate, your amazing scumhunting skills convince me completely[/sarcasm]

However,

Vote: jeromus

Why?

Because he followed me straight away on voting pwnman (putting him at l-1, pre-claiming), piggybacking off my reasoning, he followed me and esurio both a little on Fate, his posting has been mostly humorous with little substance, and he hasn't really contributed much of his material. oh, and he keeps insulting me

However, I sense truth in pwnman's claim. With my quick reading of the wiki page on Lorne, the role makes sense. I'd say he'll probably get NK'd tonight, and I agree with Fate, there's no sense doing the scum's work for them.

Oh, and Fate, I will always, always vote for the scummier lurker over the plain lurker. I think the reasoning there is obvious.

[Azhrei]

ugh, sorry for double post, proxy screwed up.

[Azhrei]

Got any of your own reasoning to add? Just because I agree with you, doesn't mean you get away with just uqoting things and using themas an excuse for a vote.

[Azhrei]

The above was directed at fate, yay cross posting.

And that's hardly avery good defense, Jeromus. Why haven't you been putting in more effort during the earlier parts of the day, to get rid of those neutral reads?

[Azhrei]

You've done very little in the way of introducing new things, and seeing as you had neutral reads on everyone, that implies that they've either posted nothing that brings upon townie or scum in your eyes, or that they've posted a roguh balance of both. Surely, with further investigation on minor points, or rereading of certain players, you could've helped to either confirm them as either town or scum in your own eyes?

I know that wouldn't work for everyone, but I think it'd be worthwhile at least for a few players. I've been getting a lot of neutral reads too, but I have been endeavouring to get better reads on people (such as Vaya and Starbuck just recently). And hell, it even worked for Starbuck.

[Azhrei]

gah, crazy cross posting madness is crazy.

Fate - I'm seeing your reasons just now, but why pre-jeromus' OMGUS, other than bandwagoning?

[Azhrei]

Just bandwagoning and the fact that you're the only one high on his scumdar? Oh, and the fact that you frustrate him? Anything else I'm missing?

[Azhrei]

Claim, jeromus, or provide a reason as to why not. Purty please

[Azhrei]

By the way, it's like, midnight here, and I'm goddamn tired. I would love a claim *hint* and I would love a lynch *hint*

And honestly, there jsut isn't time for anyone else to get a bandwagon going. So, you crazy Americans, you crazy Europeans, lynch that Aussie's ass. Preferably BEFORE the next 8 hours elapse. No-lynch isn't cool.

[Azhrei]

Just checking in, I've had a rather long weekend, with a remarkably limited amount of sleep, and I'm not quite thinking straight just now - best to avoid doing anything rash.

I'll post tomorrow, once I've slept and checked over things - I'm especially interested in Jeromus' interactions.

[Azhrei]

Oh, also, I'm reasonably certain (from my quick lookaround at the end of D1), that a delayer is simply a role which delays the abilities of other players by x amount of time.

[Azhrei]

Hey Fate... You know how you said your case on Esurio wouldn't matter unless you voted her again? Well, yeah. Would you mind recapping on your D1 suspicions of her and their reasoning? Also, I really, really don't like how you claim not voting at the start of the day is a scum-tell. Please explain why not voting is inherently scummy.

Wolf, I'm liking your long post. I can see where you're coming from, and I really don't see any flaws. Except for the part where I don't read Esurio as scum :/ When I have some time, I'ma reread. Again :/

Oh, also, might I just note, Jeromus does tend to be... well, eccentric is the best word I can think of, so I'm not sure how much we should take from his interactions. And just to clarify, all his insulting me really is just friendly banter, and nothing is meant by it. Well, insofar as I can tell. He doesn't really hate me xD

[Azhrei]

@bv130+Wolf: Aren't we little balls of helpful sunshine? Have anything else to add to the game besides flavor discussion?

No votes from either?

FoS: Aforementioned

That right there sounds like you're calling it scummy, good fellow. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I'm reading it. And why would you mind? Your continued reluctance to explain your actions frustrates and annoys me.

@Farside: I haven't the foggiest. I don't like Fate's playstyle, but I'm more and mroe reading him as town. I want to see more from Vaya - i still need to find out whats giving me that odd feeling from him - and Bv310, I need to reread Jeromus (for others) and Esurio, I think you're town. I want pwnman to post, but I get the feeling liek he's disappeared, annoyingly. I'm getting town vibes from Wolf's last post, and neutral from the rest.

[Azhrei]

to clarify, I noticed a badly worded part there, I need to reread esurio and I think farside is town.

[Azhrei]

Just because it works doesn't mean I like it. Just saying. And my not having a clue frustrates me too. I've spent too much time concentrating on you and not enough on others. Oh, and, I can see how you could've meant it that way - I just read it differently - my bad.

Personally, I've never actually been in a game with a traitor. I'm not quite sure how to read their interactions, nor am I sure that Jeromus really knew what he was doing. I have an easy day of school ahead of me in which to reread, well, everything, and hopefully after that I can be more use - I'm sorry for my fail.

[Azhrei]

Upon rereading Jeromus, I'm going to..

Vote: Vaya

Jeromus, as far as I see it, was doing his best to buddy up to Vaya, somewhat more subtly than with Esurio. THere are numerous time where it seems like he was coaching Vaya (I don't have time to quote them now, but it did happen), and his big bad scumlist for vaya reads "neutral, maybe pro-town" or something like that. Knowing that fellow, this more seems the way he'd try to announce himself to the mafia, unlike what he did with Esurio, who I'm still finding very reasonable and town. I honestly think he did that whole thing because he really dislikes Fate, is all. Not that I can prove that, but that's what I'm thinking.

Also, there's still that funny feeling I get from Vaya's posts. I'll figure that out eventually, I swear.. :/ Oh, and the way he jumped on Jeromus' wagon was hardly town.

So, Vaya, what do you have to say about his buddying?

-----

The link between Iam and Fate intrigues me. It doesn't worry me, but it does intrigue me. If either flips scum, I'll be

very

attentive to the other, but both seem like town to me at the moment.

Fate, I would still like a good reason for you not giving your reasoning for D1, though. I don't trust you - I think you're town, but I don't trust you.

[Azhrei]

However,

Vote: jeromus

Why?

Because he followed me straight away on voting pwnman (putting him at l-1, pre-claiming), piggybacking off my reasoning, he followed me and esurio both a little on Fate, his posting has been mostly humorous with little substance, and he hasn't really contributed much of his material. oh, and he keeps insulting me

Az can you explain why you didn't see this sooner and it didn't strike you till after jero posted his thoughts on players in the game?

I had a few iffy thoughts (for instance, his pwnman vote rang alarm bells in my mind), but until I really thought about how he'd been playing, I honestly thouight he was town. It was only when Fate voted him that I stopped, thought, and realized that he really wasn't playing very townie - after quickly rereading, there was a decent amount of suspicion in my mind, and I hoped that I would be able to read his reaction well enough to guage him either way. I hope that answers your question.

Az: Just another question. You state you noticed jero following you, es and fate with little reasoning. What do you thing about Vaya and her votes thus far?

I'm reading scum using the reaction fishing excuse, myself. One player using that is more than enough for me.

And Vaya, of anyone here, I think I have the best chance of getting into this scum's head. Just saying. And your reaction "Oh, it wouldn't matter if I did pout out an alternative, town situation" and "I'm going to vote, but with no reason, and claim that me doing that earlier was a townie tactic too" I don't like. Yes, this case strarted weak, but your reaction makes it stronger, as far as I'm seeing it.

Also I find gut feel is often a valuable tool, especially when combined with more logical reasons. Most experienced players will agree, in my experience.

[Azhrei]

I can't really be bothered right now, but "you're wrong" isn't a compelling argument. At all.

Oh, and remember, we don't know your alignment. I'll post something else later.

[Azhrei]

Time to actually bother to quote the Jeromus --> Vaya things, I guess.

Oh, hello there to you too, Vaya!

"Vote: Seven"

What's that, Vaya?
"Vote: Seven"

Do you want to justify that post, or are you jus gonn-"VOTE: SEVEN"

My point being - At least introduce yourself, say hi, or give a ridiculous reason as to why your random vote makes sense, as the social protocol seems to dictate!

@Vaya - See, with such blunt replies you'll seem awfully unfriendly. I'm giving you a lecture on social niceties, not game strategy!

@Farside22 - Any lurking on the part of Vaya should be not considered as scummy, so much as blasphemous - For she is turning her back on Joss Whedon. A crime straight to the name of the fabulous man himself.

@Vaya; Again - But really; please don't lurk. It ruins the game for all involved and makes you not only an unfriendly (See above) player, but an unfriendly player sitting in the corner refusing to talk to anyone.

However, I find farside's aggression to you for this, well, intriguing. I understand that playing with someone who is a renowned lurker, especially in a no-replacements game, would be frustrating, but seeing as so far, Vaya has been as active as anyone else, its a tad odd as an opener.

With fear of getting too heavily launched into a debate based on a game tactic we've pinned as annoying, more than suspicious, but Vaya opened with 2 words, then only posted when someone called her out for lurking. I believe this warrants frustration, if, admittedly, not suspicion.

Smells like early game coaching, to me. And a bit of defense in the second. (Although, no real issue with the defence, I was saying the same at the time.)

[snip]

So what if I did called him town?

That wouldn't be butt-kissing, that would just be me giving my opinion of his play when asked.

And that's just your opinion of defense of other players, me having a different opinion doesn't make me scum.

Oh my GOD! I'm sorry, are you twelve? Starting an argument with "So what" is NEVER a good way to go XD

I'll admit, I don't disagree with the point you made. In fact,

I'd put you down as one of the more pro-town players in this game

, but...Jesus, must you be so unfriendly?
[snip]

Bit more coaching, and an endorsement which I really don't see the basis for.

Vaya - You're also neutral, perhaps even pro-town. You don't post much, but when you do, your logic is sound and your posts contain appropriate and valid content. Keep that up . But change your gorramned avatar.

Less blatant endorsement (perhaps just inconsistency), but still advocating a player whose play has been 'meh' at best, in my eyes. And also, more coaching, but less obvious.

PS. I did that whole post referring to Vaya as "Her" and "She". PLEASE get a less feminine avatar so I make these mistakes less? You must do it. For me and me alone!

Seems to expect that Vaya will do something for him. However, this is weak - he does it anyone and everyone in real life. (Yeah, I know you guys have to just take my word on this, but oh well)

Vaya - Don't I even get a goodbye from my FAVOURITE pseudohermaphroditic avatar'd acquaintance?

The capitalization of 'FAVOURITE' here puts me off. Other than that, thius would've been just another joke, but I'm seeing emphasis put here, but sarcastic emphasis. It almost seems to be a "Screw you, why didn't you help me out when shit went bad?" line.

----

Farside, you've posted a lot, and I need to reread to get my head around it all - I'll respond, at least to the part on me, tomorrow.

----

I've reread Starbuck, and Esurio. I'm more seeing the case on Starbuck now, and would also like to point out to her that their is in fact no rule that says "Entertain the other players". Just saying

I still just don't see Esurio as scum, however.


More on, well, everything, tomorrow.

[Azhrei]

(Just quickly, pre-content) Hey, uh, Esurio - I think you're technically voting yourself just now. Is that intentional?

[Azhrei]

I've gone and reread Vaya in iso. Interestingly, he buddies up to Esurio at times too (early game atack on jeromus, states how she isn't scummy a few times), as does Jeromus. As much as it annoys me - your lynch would be informative, Esurio. However, at the same time, Vaya's lynch would be just as informative in regards to you.

Sigh, if worst comes to worst, and there's really no time left, I will put my vote on Esurio. However, I'd like to avoid this, and much prefer Vaya as a lynch. I think his lynch will be just as informative as Esurio's, and I think, as a player, he has contributed much less, and is less worthwhile to keep around.

To respond to a few things...

I'm reading scum using the reaction fishing excuse, myself. One player using that is more than enough for me.

Where do you get that impression? When I say I simply don't feel like posting my reasoning right now, that's all I mean.

Sorry, I assumed that you weren't just plain lazy and actually had a reason. This smacks of "I'm voting, don't have a reason, lets see how it goes" to me.

Also, I've never much liked people voting without reason, and I've especially never found it a town tell when they don't give reasoning because "they don't feel like it". The rest of what you said to me is simply playstyle difference, and I can't/won't argue with that.

And Vaya, of anyone here, I think I have the best chance of getting into this scum's head. Just saying. And your reaction "Oh, it wouldn't matter if I did pout out an alternative, town situation" and "I'm going to vote, but with no reason, and claim that me doing that earlier was a townie tactic too" I don't like. Yes, this case strarted weak, but your reaction makes it stronger, as far as I'm seeing it.

Also I find gut feel is often a valuable tool, especially when combined with more logical reasons. Most experienced players will agree, in my experience

.

I'm a bit confused with your first paragraph here can you rewrite this?

What I was trying to say here is that due to my personal friendship with Jeromus, I would easier be able to get into his play. And I was jsut saying how in general I don't like players play. I can't think of a way to retype the last line - that make a bit more sense?

I have a start on this right now. I will see if I can finish before I leave today.
Let me get the start of my reads in isolation first

Azhrei - I have a mixed view. He is asking lots questions. I see he cuts to the quick with his views. He had the same views I did orginally with jero's post. There are times where I also felt he was conservative and more just "testing" or commenting but not voting: here This is just on the wings of waiting to see so he doesn't commit himself
here more waiting. Maybe it's just because I'm more agressive it just feels off. His view on fate orginally comes off as more personal then finding Fate scummy.
Reading this this doesn't give much insight either.
I can't say looking at his pwnman vote saying he doesn't see anything else scummy really award winning.
I don't know about jero. It's why I question Azhrei more on why he didn't see what jero did earlier. It feels like an ah ha moment but with no hints from earlier on this suspicion.....idk. I know I have had moments where i found something I didnt' see before but the noncommital who is scum post leaves me a little meh on Az.
Right now I have a moderate read on Azhrei with a IGMYOU> I would like to here more from him as well as who he suspects as scum and why.

I get the feeling like there's something I should respoind to in here, but I don't know what it is - if there is something, could you quote it out for me? Same thing with anythign else I've missed. (This goes for anyone).

Uh, I think that's all. I still don't like Fate's playstyle, and I have no other suspects i'd like to really look at. There isn't rally much to say about Starbuck, and I'd be happy for her to be todays lynch, but I don't see it happening.

[Azhrei]

Azh I more wanted to in short just here who your scum suspect were and why.

Scum:
Vaya - THe connection between him and Jeromus, and the limited contribution. THe voting of Starbuck I'm finding a null-tell at this time of the morning.
SB - THe hypocrisy, the active lurking.

I'd rather a Vaya lynch because that'd give us a helluva lot more leads on other players. Especially seeing as Esurio, who I've been reading as town the whole game, and who has just softclaimed, would likely be a very bad lynch.

@Esurio's FOS on me. I was just telling the truth. I would rather your lynch to a no-lynch, and I can't think of any way to defend you beyond what you're doing beyond trying to push a case on Vaya. THe interactions between other players and you are the only thing that gives me any suspicion on you, and I'm not going to take that over your play.

Sorry, I assumed that you weren't just plain lazy and actually had a reason. This smacks of "I'm voting, don't have a reason, lets see how it goes" to me.

Also, I've never much liked people voting without reason, and I've especially never found it a town tell when they don't give reasoning because "they don't feel like it". The rest of what you said to me is simply playstyle difference, and I can't/won't argue with that.

I have no idea why you choose to interpret my actions negatively, assuming that I don't have any reason for suspecting her, instead of the fact that I just happen to find it a chore to explain my reasoning and thought process. I mean seriously, that's a really stupid accusation you're making at me, have you

ever

seen or heard of scum voting someone without any reason and not being able to fake a reason.

You just admitted to being lazy. Laziness, as a general rule, is not in the town's best interests. And yes, while most scum can fake a reason, that doesn't mean that they can't be too lazy to make one up. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say here.

And also, I have heard people refer to voting without stating reason as a town tell, for whatever that may be worth to you.

Really? I struggle to believe such. And would have to say, that whoever did was probably either referring to a specific player or situation, or is just silly.


Oh, if there's any typos in here, I don't really care. It's 9AM, which is entirely too early on a sunday morning. And I haven't had breakfast - last time I played MS before breakfast... Well, you know what happened with me misreading Iam's post

[Azhrei]

Just quickly scanned all of that, and I don't really have time to post (I've just got 5 minutes free - girlfirend > you lot) but I do agree that is an unlikely role for the character... However, for setup purposes, I can see how it'd work out.

I'm slightly intrigued by the way everyone suddenly jumped on Vaya, and want to look into this further - later.

Unvote

Farewell.

[Azhrei]

Ah, screw it. Vaya's claim makes sense considering balance, Esurio's softclaim (and BV's) make sense also. Which leaves, avoiding some crazy, crazy shit while I sleep, Starbuck.

Hypocrisy, general lack of contribution, odd reaction to the Vaya claim, etc. Can't really be bothered beyond that, and all I'm gonna do is regurgitate that which has already beeen stated anywho.

Vote: SB

*falls asleep*

[Azhrei]

I am here, 20 minutes before the deadline, having just owken up. I love how the deadlines are 8am for me >.>


bv, please hammer, there's really nothing else we can do today except no lynch. Up to you, really.

[Azhrei]

ohyay, crosspost.

[Azhrei]

yay crossposting

Cya esu

*waits for death post*

[Azhrei]

Esurio: I assume you are an active of some sort - presumably Echo? You may as well claim now.

Vaya: Who did you kill? Why not Farside? Did you try to kill Farside? This is VERY important.

wolf: how open are you to a full claim? I would like more confirmation to do with your ability.

Once I have these questions answered I will have more to say.

[Azhrei]

Wait - just noticed the modkilled tag on pwnman - let me rephrase.

Vaya: Why didn't you kill Farside? Did you attempt to do so? If not, who did you attempt to kill, if anyone? This is still VERY important.

[Azhrei]

Exactly. I just want answers to those questions first.

Actually - Farside - Do you have any information regarding Vaya's kill?

[Azhrei]

I'd like a full claim, purty please.

[Azhrei]

That's all I wanted to know from you, thankye - now to wait for Vaya.

On a side note, can you tell I'm at school?

[Azhrei]

Interesting... Well, regarding the seeming proliferation of town power roles, and your lack of imprinting, it would indeed imply that a roleblocker is in existence.

[Azhrei]

That was sad


Iam, Fate. What do you have to say about everything?

[Azhrei]

Dollhouse did start off a little bad

And Topher died to save the world - he blew himself up with his machine that reversed the imprinting on everyone.

I need to watch more Whedon shows...

[Azhrei]

Poor Tony

Jeromus has just leaned over my shoulder and requested me tell you that he disapproves of the way Paul died and thinks it was incredibly weak. I tell you this just to shut him up.

Also, Esurio - I was planning to suggest the same thing, i just wanted a response form Vaya first.

[Azhrei]

I think that a massclaim combined with wolf's ability would make things easier.

i thought about things during the night phase, and I'm reasonably certain I know who the scum are. (through the claims and through Wolf's ability) However, I'm witholding this until we hear from Vaya.Once he has posted, then i will make my case(s).

Vaya, Farside alluded to not being able to be killed during the day yesterday, you probably missed it. Anyhow, onto the scum.

"Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."

VoteCount 2.4

L-1

Starbuck

(iamausername, Vaya, esuriospiritus, Fate, Azhrei)

L-5

Vaya

(farside22)


Not voting:pwnman, bv130, Starbuck, Wolframnhart

With 10 alive, it takes

6 to lynch

Deadline =

10 hours and 10 minutes

This is the votecount at the point in which wolf failed to hammer.

Believing his ability, this means that 1 or more of (iamausername, Vaya, esuriospiritus, Fate, Azhrei) are scum. Now, I believe Esurio's claim (practically confirmed townie here), I know I'm not scum, so that leaves Fate, Vaya and Iam. Now, what really interests me here is Fate and Iam, our resident soft-buddies. Constantly throughout the game these two have been supporting one another, and now here they are, 2 out of 3 potential scum (well, 2 out of 4 for the rest of you). Am I the only one who finds that suss? I can't easily find the other voteounts at the moment (the proxy I have to use at school fails at going to links that are to posts). but I think we'll find more buddying of votes.

Fate: Now would be a fantastic time for you to reveal your reasoning for attacking esurio Day 1. Your continued resitance to reveal this is scummy. I would also love to know why you suddenly jumped on Starbuck after spending the best part of the day asking people to vote for esurio. In fact, why were you

asking

people to join your wagon? Why weren't you trying to prove scumminess? Your play reeks. The entire game you have been antagonisticand unhelpful, you've used the classic reaction fishing excuse, you've attacked a confirmed townie constantly with limited reason and all sorts of things. Your only redeeming point is your voting of Jeromus, which really seems like scum taking an oppurtuinity of what (to them) would've seemed to be a bad townie. You just got lucky (as far as town points go) and found your traitor, didn't you? Also, I believe we can safely assume thaat Jeromus' interactions on day 1 mean little to nothing, and I know that he intensely dislikes your play.

Iam: You've been, well, suave. I know you're more than experienced enough that I'll not be able to find any amazing tells in your play. However, you've been very smooth all game, never putting yourself too far in the open, always reasonable, never lurking - completely neutral in my eyes. I thought you were town right up until I thought about Wolf's power, and then I really started thinking about your play. You've been reinforcing Fate all game, not too obviously, but more than enough that you (and yes, it was you) convinced me that his play wasn't scummy.

*sudden interjection by a fire drill*

another thing that threw up a red flag for me was the killing of Seven. Day 1, after Seven explained himeslf properly, his playstyle was actually very townie, in my eyes, and I think, in the scum's eyes, very dangerous. However, you kept going at him for it, trying to get the town on his lynch. It didn't work, and you did eentually give up. Funnily enough, Seven ended up dead N1. this actually really intrigued me until I recalled your reaction to him - that being the one of scum, thinking that they can use a player's unusual playstyle against him to get him lycnhed and remove a threat.

Also, the both of you started Day 1 by voting Starbuck, who you'd both have known was in fact the exasperated town I read her as Day 1. You were probably as surprised as the town when she turned out as a SK.

Oh, and you will cross-confirm or destroy one another, when one of you is lynched, I think.

So,

Vote: Fate

Sorry for the walls of text all, and sorry for any typos.

[Azhrei]

Pending confirmation of wolf's ability and a reply from Fate/Iam, i think all we can really do is wait.

However, if Wolf's ability is viable for use today, I think we should take full advantage of it.

[Azhrei]

I'm also really enjoying it - however, I don't want it as a large game, I can't handle that many players at once :p

*continues waiting*

[Azhrei]

pwnman

is replaced by

DedicatedScribe

WHAT HAPPENED? WHY DID YOU TAUNT US SO?

QFT - but, something else, please?

[Azhrei]

No, not really, it's one of his two reactions to attacks - ignore it, or get angry about it.

That or he could just be busy writing a post as we speak.

[Azhrei]

Where did i say

you

pushed for a seven lynch?

[Azhrei]

Sooooo tired.

I'm happy to claim, but dislike the lack of, well, anything, regarding my post on Iam and Fate.

[Azhrei]

*spends all day waiting, debating whether to make an "I'm waiting and bored" post*

*gives in*

[Azhrei]

I am Spike (William The Boody).

My flavour informs me that i have been regarded as many things (villain, anti-hero), but i'm always seen as comic relief. I'm a vampire, but I've gotten my soul back, and as such i'm good.

I have no active abilities, and am essentially a vanilla townie, except that I'm hard to kill (due to my vampiric nature). It isn't specified whether this means that I'm unkillable or unlynchable, so I'm unsure as to the exact nature of it. However, my pm informs me that there are people who can kill me.

So guyz, who can kill vampires?

+ gogo Farside

[Azhrei]

I be in agreement on Fatescum, both for his claim and for my earlier post (Which he hasn't responded to, grr), but I also agree we shouldn't lynch him yet.


Also, I know very little of Angel/Buffy, as I haven't watched it, so my use in that area of flavour is, well, limited. Now, if this were all dollhouse and firefly...

[Azhrei]

Oh, also, likely won't post until tomorrow sometime work then spending time with girlfriend, so yeah. Farewell!

[Azhrei]

I... Well, you've done it again Fate. Convinced me, that is. If you're the scum, props to you, good sir, props to you.

Also, may I just say, I did in fact make a rather large post detailing both you and Iam, and I do recall it including play. Just saying. You never responded to it, except to misread me >.> Nontheless, well, Vaya's attitude towards lynching you, and just the general way that you've posted, convinces me.

Unvote
Vote Vaya

You're linked much to well to Farside, you've got that nice D1 link to Jeromus going down, your claim was iffy from the start, and only just within the realms of 'plausible' at any time, and you've been damn scummy with your anti-Fate lynch.


Oh, and Fate, you're dead tomorrow if Vaya flips town. So, so dead. Just saying


On another note, concerning vampire flavour/kills, well, as said, no idea. Also, from what I read of Kate Lockely, she would seem most likely to be an insane or paranoid cop, due to her interactions with angel (read the page yourselves if you care, I can't be bother paraphrasing). So either we discount Fate's targets, or we assume some sort of godfather role for Farside, presuming Vaya flips scum, as I believe someone mentioned the plausibility of that.

[Azhrei]

Oh, I just noticed how both Vaya and Farside were voting Fate, had Esu not jumped off, I daresay he'd have been lynched by now...

THat pairing seems more and more likely.


Cya in the morning, everyone. By which I of course mean, see you in your respective evenings, late nights, and afternoons

[Azhrei]

Plus way would azh have flavor that something could him him.

Oh, one last thing before I go, what in hell does this even mean? Sorry, but you're making no sense here.

[Azhrei]

Vaya, in my experience, lying is not enough for lynching. You're obviously a LAL fan, but I don't really care. Just saying. Insulting me convinces me, well, not at all.

And I'll be the first to vote Fate tomorrow if you flip town, trust me. Unless scum is farside/iam, from my point of view, we've won.

Fate, your last post in direction to me, well, thank you. That's possibly one of your most reasonable posts I've seen all game, and, even if you are scum, it made me like your play a lot more. If you're scum, by the way, you've done brilliantly.

[Azhrei]

snip

You really suck at reading connections between players, you know. Now its even worse,

you're trying to link me with a player's whose not yet flipped.

And just because I have common sense and realized that someone who lied about their role like Fate did needs to die, doesn't make me scum.

The bolded. Just because someone isn't flipped doesn't mean you can't be linked to them. Like, wow.

[Azhrei]

...

I am impressed.

[Azhrei]

Actually, more like "insulted" and "wanting to insult you back, but trying my best not to".


And connections don't magically goddamn appear when someone dies, its just that they're usually noted

afterward

, especially in the early game, 'cause people aren't looking for them at all. Now, whilst you being connected to Farside isn't inherently scummy unless one of you flips scum, nor inherently townie in the inverse situation, it doesn't mean that it isn't a damn good reason to lynch you.

The likelihood of there being 3 scum left alive in this setup is VERY low, as I see it. (If there is, we're all screwed if you are town, and they've done a fantastic job) Anyway, we've got two pairings going on, you and Farside, Fate and Iam. If we lynch either member of either pair, we get a decent amount of infor on both the other member and the other pair. Purely infomration wise, any one of you 4 is a practical lynch. Factoring in Wolf's ability, one of you, Fate and Iam

HAS

to be scum. And you're, as I'm seeing it, the best player to get rid of. (No time to explain, sorry)

Gotta leave for school now, cyas in an hour or two.

[Azhrei]

Wow, Vaya, I am completely convinced, just like I was by your telling me i was wrong between the connection between you and Jeromus.

I'll go and unvote you. In fact, because I'm obviously stupid and wrong, why don't we just lynch me instead?


In case you couldn't tell, that's what we call

sarcasm

.


And no, they aren't the only two possibilities, but I see them as the most probable. Convince me of another possibility's likelihood, and I'll be happy. So far, your efforts at that seem to be "You're wrong" and "You're stupid". Compelling arguments, truly. What next? "You're scum, so we should lynch you." It seems to be on the same train of thought, without about as much logic or reasoning behind it.

[Azhrei]

Oh, and, in case you hadn't noticed, connections aren't the only thing we've got on you.

And I just love the childish way you say "I'm not talking to you any more." Wow.

[Azhrei]

Hey Iam, you were wondering why I keep saying the thing concerning wolf's ability? It's be cause I'm right.

For your convenience, quotes:

Yep, dark alter ego that appeared in season 6, kicked some ass, but ultimately it was Xander that stops her and she becomes good willow again, then she reappears in book 4 of season 8 when Buffy finally kills her.

eight hours left but there is one other thing that can happen. I have a little condition to my voting, stating that I can't throw down a hammer on a player, unless there are no more town members voting (in other words both starbuck and bv310 would have to be scum) for my hammer to go through.

Plus we already had one witch in the game tara, a flavor cop, and Starbuck claiming a 50% chance of blocking someone's night actions.

vote Starbuck

I got clarification from the mod

for my vote to work, everyone on starbucks lynch has to be town, and everyone NOT on her wagon has to be scum. Unfortunately this doesn't truely narrow down people, starbuck could still technically be scum, but that would mean bv310 is town, and vice versa of starbuck being town and bv310 being scum. All this really means is what everyone already knows, that scum is on starbucks wagon/.

unvote

Ok guys about the best way I can describe my hammer condition is if scum is on a wagon AND/OR if town is not, I can't hammer. That is really the jist of it. Also it is not a one time thing. Do people still want me to claim or hold off? I won't be at this point until i get home from work just fyi.

Now, by the first quote, I am wrong. However, I'm basing my statement off of the last description of Wolf's power, which basically states that, provided there is a scum on the wagon he is trying to hammer, he cannot hammer. It doesn't matter about the alignment of everyone else on or off the wagon, merely that there is one (or more) scum on the wagon, as proved by his inability to hammer. (And in fact, the 2nd statement essentially proves the same thing)

Now, if I am wrong, and wolf informs us that this is fact incorrect - which, by his last role statement, it is not, then I will happily concede the point. Until then, I will treat it as fact that one (or more) of those 3 people is scum.

So, all of you who are trying to naysay one of the most valuable abilities in this game, l2read.

[Azhrei]

Iam, I honestly think we're just reading that statement differently.

Tony, is there anyway you could either clarify to us directly, or to wolf, what his ability was, just so that we can know.

Also, Iam, why would Tony have removed his ability today if it was only viable in lylo, hm?

[Azhrei]

Accepted - I'll move on.

[Azhrei]

ITT Vaya > Farside.


I could easier see Vaya/Fate, Vaya/Iam than i could Farside/Iam or Farside/Fate. However, Vaya/Farside trumps that, I just think Vaya is the better lynch, partly because I cannot read Farside. Like, cannot

read

her at all.

However, if it comes down to it, I'm cool with either.

And also Fars, I see the pairing between Iam and Fate, and I assure you, Fate's life is forfeit if Vaya flips town. Possibly followed by Iam, possibly not.

[Azhrei]

I believe what I'm reading from everyone is "I wouldn't mind a Vay lynch".

So, uh, why aren't you guys voting Vaya? I think 5 or 6 people have either voted or stated they find Vaya scummy. So, uh, why are there only two people currently voting Vaya?

*looks confused*

[Azhrei]

Tony, you amuse me

[Azhrei]

Blah, I'm here, but I'm busy. Post sometime in the near future.

[Azhrei]

By here, I mnean I glanced at this cause I realised the day had started. By busy, I mean that RL > MS.

[Azhrei]

Wow, Fate, before I post some substance, I'd like to do a Vaya.

You're wrong.

Also, I've just spent the last 4 days with the most wonderful girl in the world - I apologise for my absence due to such, but do you really expect me to have posted? I mean, come on.

I like how you've taken advantage of my absence to label me as "obv scum who doesn't know what to do" and to hype up this entire BS scumpair.

Vote Iam

For now. Posting more in a little.

[Azhrei]

oh, i just got halfway through one page of reading this and realised how I couldn't be fucked any more.

Well done Fate, you've won. Brilliant, brilliant scumplay on your part.

Vote: Fate

Esu, its up to you, I don't give a crap about this game any more.


But, really, trust your goddamn gut, its right. I know you can't know for sure, but I've been nothing but honest this whole game, and I'm 99% sure the scum team is Fate/Iam. The other 1% is Fate/Farside.

Go town.

[Azhrei]

EBWOP: "you've probably won" there's still a chance Esu will believe me.

[Azhrei]

o.0

Damn.