Mini 929: Whedonesque Mafia (Game Over)

[Starbuck]

And then let us

vote Starbuck

for being named after an evil organization who puts addictive chemicals in their coffee.

Wolfy, Wolfy, Wolfy

Misrepresenting me already....

You (OF ALL PEOPLE) should know that I am NOT named after the coffee company, but after Kara 'Starbuck' Thrace of the Battlestar known as Galactica.




I will vote for

Vote: iamausername

because it's been awhile.

[Starbuck]

I believe we have. Your name is familiar.

[Starbuck]

I replaced Vaya in another game. I haven't really been impressed by her play as of late.

[Starbuck]

When I modded my first Open game, she was there and she wasn't lurkerish at all.

[Starbuck]

Azhrei, you are quick to come to Vaya's defense. A little too quick imho.

[Starbuck]

Reading ES's Post 47, she calls out jeromus for misrepresentation, but it feels to me that she did the same to him.

I, personally, didn't read the same tone out of

Vaya opened with 2 words, then only posted when someone called her out for lurking. I believe this warrants frustration, if, admittedly, not suspicion.

that ES did.



ES states that

This is harsh wording, if not an attempted misrep.

I don't see what's harsh about it. Quite a few of us have had experience with Vaya (and other known lurkers), and it is very frustrating.



You seem to have strawmanned together a very weak case on jeromus.

I do agree there could be some misrep. Half the time when people get called out for lurking they were legitimately unable to post. Still not enough for me to put a vote out on jer, but noteworthy.

But jeromus is not the only person who has discussed Vaya's lurkerness, and it's known that it isn't because Vaya is "legitimately unable to post". Quite a few of us have expressed our concerns.






Why does it not surprise me that Vaya would get the same reaction as ES? I see some buddying action going on here.

[Starbuck]

Vaya and pwnman are those with the most votes on them up to now, we should pick one and tunnel away.

I'm not comfortable with you advocating tunneling.

I can support a bandwagon without placing a vote, as can anyone else.

Supporting a bandwagon without placing a vote is scummy.

This is just playstyle, it's not scummy.

This isn't playstyle, imho. This is you waiting for someone else to come up with something so you can piggyback off it.

Obviously anything this early is going to be weak, though, and I acknowledge that in my voting post. I'd rather have a vote on someone for a reason than be voting someone randomly, no matter how far I have to reach to justify that reason.

Reasoning for a vote is good, reaching for a reason is not.

[Starbuck]

On esuriospiritus

Tell me why your Seven vote is any better than your Jeromus vote, and I'll consider it.

Are you always this belligerent and unhelpful in your games?

I've never played a game with Fate, but I don't feel that his quote here is belligerent or unhelpful. I do see that there is quite significant talk about him, and I will need to do a more in depth read in a bit.

shakefist.jpg

You should get a Roslin one of these.

On jeromus

You seem really quick to cover esurio's back here.

On Seven

I'm not comfortable with you advocating tunneling.

I get it. I used to be against tunneling too.

What exactly do you get?

Supporting a bandwagon without placing a vote is scummy.

Why is it scummy? If I explicitely say I think John is the scummiest player, and that I will most likely vote for him at some point, the vote might as well be cast. Otherwise I am supporting a bandwagon/the pressure from the bandwagon to explore a certain player. I don't need a vote to pressure a player.

It's scummy because I've seen people push a bandwagon all the way to lynch and never place their vote on it, and be voting for someone else while pushing the lynch along.

If you are forming a case on someone and pushing it, you better be voting them.

This isn't playstyle, imho. This is you waiting for someone else to come up with something so you can piggyback off it.

No. If you don't agree that it's playstyle, fine. But don't say I'm trying to piggyback off anyone. I'm not waiting for anyone to buld a case on anyone else, I can do that myself. When I said I was waiting for a bandwagon I was waiting for everyone to pick someone to tunnel on. Not to make a case, not even to place a vote, just to pick who we should start with.

Don't say you are trying to piggyback off of anyone? That's exactly what you said you were going to do.

Why does everyone else need to pick someone? Why don't you pick someone?

It's not the lack of a vote that makes you scummy. It's the lack of a firm stance on anything. It's the fact that you say "hey everybody, let's pick someone to bandwagon!" but refuse to do so yourself.

What is a "firm stance" for you at this stage in the game? You sound like you want me to have a full-fledged case on someone that would have enough to bring them to a lynch.

We simply don't have that kind of info right now.

When I make a case on someone and take a "firm stance", it will be to get them lynched.

Exactly. What is a firm stance at this point?

You said here that you feel that iamausername wants you to have a full fledged case. Well, that's the exact way that you have been acting towards the rest of us.

And you said it in the bolded, so stop and take a step back because if you can't do the above, how can you expect the rest of us to just yet?

[Starbuck]

These super long walls of text are killing me. It's making me not want to read the game, please stop?

[Starbuck]

It's scummy because I've seen people push a bandwagon all the way to lynch and never place their vote on it, and be voting for someone else while pushing the lynch along.

If you are forming a case on someone and pushing it, you better be voting them.

If I'm trying to get someone lynched, they will have my vote.

But that isn't what you were saying...


/sigh, I give up

I don't think it's possible to have a firm stance at this point in the game. How am I asking everyone else to have a firm case? I don't believe in firm cases this early on. You're misinterpreting what I'm saying if you think I want everyone to have a firm stance on anything.

If you don't believe the above, how did you expect the following to occur?

And as I explained before it didn't matter who I picked, it only matters that we could bandwagon someone to pressure them and get people talking. I had reads on no one, other poeple were starting to get reads. It makes sense to figure out which player is getting more scum-reads at that point.

I'm so annoyed when people do this... "I have other secret hidden things in this top secret file that is my massively awesome case against you! [I just don't want to show you any of it because then you'd expose how wrong I am!]"

Why do you get annoyed by this? What if the person is a town PR and they are trying to breadcrumb?

You need to take a breather and stop getting annoyed by anything people do to play the game.




I would like to see some contribution from bv310 and pwnman.

[Starbuck]

Iam, that's still my RVS vote.

My bad.

Unvote

I thought I did that already.

[Starbuck]

Also it was done here...

Post 13

[Starbuck]

Also Iam, you seem to be pretty up in arms about an RVS vote (something that you could have easily looked up yourself via iso), what's with the overreaction?

[Starbuck]

Vote: Fate

For strawmanning and some elaborate Jason Voorhees action

[Starbuck]

12 pages and you are arguing about something as small as an RVS vote? Interesting.

[Starbuck]

I really didn't overreact. You obviously haven't played with me much to understand when I am and when I'm not overreacting.

[Starbuck]

Err...Starbuck. Overreaction is something defined by your peers. To you it may just be reaction, but it's up to other people to decide if the "Over" is appropriate.

/sigh

[Starbuck]

It was assumed that I overreacted and I said that if you had experience with me, you would know what an overreaction from me is and isn't.

That wasn't overreaction.


Take a look at some of my past games if you want to see what an overreaction from me looks like, because that's not how it looks.

[Starbuck]

@Fate- Starbuck is a she. It would be awesome if you looked to the left at the gender sign once in awhile.


I also would rather get rid of someone who is active lurking (especially with the no replacements rule) rather than someone who is actively contributing.

[Starbuck]

Sorry for my absence, I've had a lot going on lately.




So Fate's first post after the NK is a vote for me, any reason? Other than

Feel even better about this after Seven's flip.

?

And then iamausername follows with a very similiar reason

I need to reread to get a better handle on everyone else, but I'm pretty sure this is still the right vote.

I'm very wary of this parroting.





One thing I wanted to note from yesterday was that early in Day 1 ES was going after jeromus, but jeromus seemed to always want to back up ES. There is a link between the two of them. It's just something I was thinking about. I can go back to re-read to further this.

[Starbuck]

@Starbuck: We clearly were both on you end of D1 before Jeromus. Do we have to restate reasons every single time we vote for you?

Absolutely.

I think voting for someone and then stating you have to re-read to make sure is a definite cop out on giving a reason.

[Starbuck]

On Fate

Fate+Iam: Iam explains the possible town-motivations behind Fate's play. Iam seems understanding of what Fate is doing. Iam does NOT vote Fate's attackers. Fate says Iam is a good player, and is difficult to read. Iam and Fate agreed on Jeromus' lynch, seeing the same scumtells. Iam and Fate agreed on Starbuck's tells.

This is the exact reasoning why people think that you ARE buddying.

So if people are ever together on a lynch they are buddying? I'm not quite sure I understand this position other than, "well don't vote me for buddying when THEY WERE DOING IT TOOOO"-paraphrased ES, which is a scummy position to take.

Way to completely misrepresent what was said.

On Vaya

Votes farside and says..

Don't feel like explaining right now, but I still don't like her. And of the people on my wagon, I do feel she's the most likely to be scum.

How do you want anyone to feel that you aren't scum when you say things like the above?

On wolframnhart

...it is not my job to make this game fun for you.

Wrong!


Wolf, it seems as you need a reminder...

14.) Play to win.

15.) Play with the spirit of the game in mind.

16.) Have fun. Remember that everyone playing are actually real people and treat them as such.

[Starbuck]

Not nit picking. I'm not afraid to say something if I feel something is out of line or on it's way to being out of line.f

It may not say that you have to do it for other players, but it's definitely implied in all of those rules.

[Starbuck]

That's probably because I've been in and out on MS for the past couple weeks due to life. I really haven't gotten a full on grasp of this game yet. I need a day where I can sit down and re-read. I have a suspect or two that I need to lay my cases out on. I just haven't had the time.

[Starbuck]

Vaya, what haven't you liked? You haven't said one word about me all game until you voted me just now.

[Starbuck]

Vaya, are you going to answer my question? Or completely ignore it?

[Starbuck]

Starbuck are you going to scumhunt? Or just question the people who vote you?

I'm questioning Vaya because Vaya never once mentions my name until he votes me.

Go ahead and look in his ISO.

[Starbuck]

I'm a big Firefly geek, and I couldn't believe that Jayne would only be one-shot.



I'm also noting how Vaya is ignoring me.

[Starbuck]

How is my skepticism obvious? I'm a big fan of Firefly, and for Jayne to be a one-shot vig just doesn't make sense.

[Starbuck]

Where have I pushed the Vaya lynch? That's a misrep completely right there.

Vaya's answers to my questions will be concurrent with where I place my vote.

[Starbuck]

Vaya's continual ignoring of me is proving to me that he is just scrapping together a case.

Read his ISO, he never mentions me until that post where he votes for me. I ask him a question, he doesn't answer.

He comes out with a rather shoddy claim (imho), and you are willing to believe it while not really knowing anything about the flavor.

[Starbuck]

I'm at L-1, so it's claim time.


I am Willow (from Buffy the Vampire Slayer) and a villager.


Every night, I can cast a spell on a player and give them a 50% chance of failure.





For those of you that don't know anything about Buffy, Willow is a witch, but a good one.

[Starbuck]

I don't get to be a PR that often, so when I am a VT, I normally go balls to the wall to either draw the lynch vote or an NK. I wanted to try and lay low, and with life picking up and being as crazy as it is, I figured I'd be okay. Guess not.


I'm really concerned about Fate and just how much his opinion changes with every posts he makes. His flip-floppyness has been making me nervous, and he is who I targeted last night.

[Starbuck]

Buffy is my weakness in Whedon knowledge. I've heard of Dark Willow, is that her alter ego or what not?


My PM just states that I'm Willow, and a villager.

[Starbuck]

I apologize to you all that I couldn't devote more time to this game due to life and it's craziness.

Have a great game everyone.


Go town!

[Starbuck]

So, my question now is, why doesn't Vaya care for a response from me, but he cares about responses from everyone else?

[Starbuck]

Also, why didn't wolf's vote work?

[Starbuck]

Thank you. I missed that.

[Starbuck]

So it's a good starting place then.

Out of the following people:

iamausername, Vaya, esuriospiritus, Fate, Azhrei


there is one or more scum.

[Starbuck]

The quick move from Vaya to me just screams opportunistic to me.

[Starbuck]

Vaya, besides being Jayne, what kind of flavor do you have about him?

[Starbuck]

Vote: Vaya

[Starbuck]

sorry I was thinking of the movie firefly.

The TV Show is Firefly.

The Movie sequel is Serenity.

[Starbuck]

I'm at L-1, so it's claim time.


I am Willow (from Buffy the Vampire Slayer) and a villager.


Every night, I can cast a spell on a player and give them a 50% chance of failure.





For those of you that don't know anything about Buffy, Willow is a witch, but a good one.

SB who did you target night 1?

I stated here that I targeted Fate.

[Starbuck]

Sorry, I'm playing WoW and trying to keep up with the game at the same time.



I'm Willow. A lesbian witch who uses her spellpower to help the village overcome great evil.

[Starbuck]

I really can only give my top two because I'm null or pro-town on everyone else, and I won't give the scum a play by play sheet.


But my two are Vaya and Fate.