Mini 904 - Narnia: LWW Mafia (Game Over)

[Narninian]

Here - havnt read it all.

Will catch up tonight.

[Narninian]

I don't see the claim of rumblebuffin to be a lynch worthy claim at this point. Vanilla townie is a bit of an 'easy' claim, and the name certainly is doubtful to have a counterclaim - but book just doesnt have a lot of better known' characters. There is Aslan, the 4 kids, tumnus, Father Christmas, Mr and Mrs Beaver, Professor Kirke. Personally, I wouldn't see any of those characters as 'vanilla' and if they were limited to those - a mass claim would make the game trivial. For vanilla characters tertiary characters seem most likely.


the main reason on her bandwagon was for voting for (me) based on starting a random bandwagon leading to lynch-3. I agree (of course), that the random bandwagon wasn't something to get too worried about, but I don't blame somebody for taking that a reason beyond random to vote. At this point we were still at the random voting stage. Her counter bandwagon attempt seemed nothing more than the better than random suspicion.


What I find interesting is a series of posts from bv310:

Immediately after the starbuck post for L-3, bv310 agreed with her and asked for reasoning from J.R (me).

J.R., why would you put kiku at L-3 this early? A quick-wagon is not the best way to start this day.

His next post talks about how he did find starbuck suspicious.

then he votes for her based on the vanilla claim. I just get a bad vibe he's following dybeck's lead unconditionally. The could mean he is scum trying to latch on a townie leading the charge (letting another do the 'scum-hunting' for him and gaining his trust), or he is in colloboration with dybeck (though this seems a bit too obvious so the feeling I get is its the former. )

[Narninian]

She's been on the defensive a little too much and not focusing on scum hunting apart from going after accuser; However, given the state of votes it is important to defend.

You do make a good point, though; Starbuck - do you have anything to add, other than trying to defend yourself?

[Narninian]

Very Well

Vote: BV310

[Narninian]

Any explanation for your inconsistency bv310?

[Narninian]

What is "ATE" ?

[Narninian]

On bv310

Reading bv310 in iso....


I do not like how he was so quick to parrot me when it came to the quick wagon on Kiku...

He states in his ISO Post 1:

J.R., why would you put kiku at L-3 this early? A quick-wagon is not the best way to start this day.

I don't believe the above is fearful as dybeck was trying to say in Post #, especially because as soon as he's questioned about agreeing with me. he backpedals to say that he suspected me (as seen below).



And in his very next post he states that he found me suspicious (but never states it prior to this post)

Honestly, the people posting frequently so far have been relatively good with their styles, and although I did find Starbuck suspicious before, I find the quick L-3 move less odd now.

Now, why would he question J.R. about putting Kiku at L-3 if he was suspicious of me unvoting?

Does not compute.

Also, he's suspicious of me, but he NEVER directs any questions towards me.


In his ISO Post 3:

Honestly, the people posting frequently so far have been relatively good with their styles, and although I did find Starbuck suspicious before, I find the quick L-3 move less odd now.

When did you find Starbuck suspicious? Initially you agreed with her.

Regarding the quick L-3 move, what would you say changed your mind?

I didn't like that she called it scummy to have an L-3, but I didn't like having anyone at L-3 this early, especially in RVS. It just seemed that there was too much opportunity for it to go bad, but Starbuck whiteknight-ing the cause seemed like an attempt to build town cred without having to do anything all that pro-town.

My first question is: where before this post did I say L-3 was scummy? Oh that's right, I NEVER DID.

My second question is: how can you be suspicious of me for not being comfortable having someone at L-3 for so early and then say that you didn't like it either? How can you be suspicious of me when you feel the same way?

I'd also like to point out that the above quote is the first time that the word "whiteknight" is brought into the game.


It strikes me as odd that he suspects me but he turns around and votes manho for no reason.


He goes back and re-reads me in this post and it seems like he's trying to redeem himself, especially from his fence-sitting.

I'd like to see Star's answers to some questions that have been posed to her before I make up my mind.

This bothers me because besides his re-read of me, he never directs anything to me.

and from the same post...

I think my opinion of Starbuck right now is more just based on eveybody else's reactions to her.

So he admits that he has absolutely no case of his own.

He also says he finds Papa Zito scummy for...

PZ on the other hand, seems really scummy by trying to lead the town. It's annoying to play with someone who always tries to lead the game, and most players that lead are usually scum.

Care to provide examples of this?


After this, I ask him if he has anything to bring to the table and replies with

I don't have anything new to bring because I haven't seen anything new to bring. The last couple pages have been rehashing the same basic points. The only new thing in the last two pages has been Dybeck's point on PZ's following, which is good, but not really a whole lot to go on, until PZ responds.

and also

As for the voting, I haven't voted because I was waiting for a real case to be made. As it is, the case against Starbuck is pretty good, but I think there's a good chance that she's actually just a very lazy townie.

He wants everyone else to do his work for him. I'm not sure if this is more scum or lazy townie approach.

I also think it's funny at this point that he calls me a lazy townie when at least (at this point of the game) I've provided substance and my own opinions, rather than mindlessly following everyone else.

I think I trust Dybeck here. Star's play has just been going down over the course of this day.

Again, he thinks he trusts dybeck and still brings nothing new to the table before voting.

Manho, if you want Starbuck lynched why haven't you switched your vote yet? You defended her, then abruptly switch to "we need to lynch her", so why hasn't your vote changed? Trying to bus from your scumbuddy without putting her back at L-1?

These are some pretty aggressive words for someone who jumped on my bandwagon at L-2 and has provided absolutely nothing substance wise.



So he finally answers some questions here...

I originally got a vibe off her Rumblebuffin claim of possible power role trying to vanilla claim in order to avoid a lynch.

Now, I can see where others wouldn't believe my VT claim and that's fine, but why would you put me at L-1 if you believe me to be a POWER ROLE of some kind?

Her trying to deflect onto the source, and trying to justify the weakest vanilla claim I've seen in any game I've played on this site are what made me more willing to vote.

You've been a member of the site since 14 Nov 2009. How is it the WEAKEST claim you've seen?

I'd also like to take this chance to point out my suspicions against Manho.

First, he nearly whiteknights her cause (I snipped this post, but the whole thing is valid in my argument.

His use of the word "whiteknight" in this game is a little too much for me.


Overall, bv310 has done nothing but follow dybeck's lead and not really provide any of his own points. It very much feels like coaching.

The same thing I was getting at when I decided to vote for bv310. You asked the very same question starbuck did immediately after her vote - and then in your very next post you said you found her suspicious for it. Any way to explain this inconsistency bv310?

[Narninian]

If nobody will follow me to bv310 (my top suspect), I can consider manho - whats the main case against him now? His eagerness to lynch starbuck, who he feels is innocent?

[Narninian]

Manho; You're up - lets hear your claim.

[Narninian]

Well, That is quite the claim. I definitely expected to see her in the game, and her allegiance is solid. At this point I don't see pushing another bandwagon to be useful for town, if there is no counterclaim, it seems vanilla townie might be our best choice.

[Narninian]

I think Susan probably has a role, but I have no idea what it would be.

I don't think we should push for futher details today, though (unless there is a counterclaim of course).

I'll

Unvote: BV310

since nobody is following that wagon right now.

[Narninian]

I think this is a really odd thing to say. If there's a real Susan, of course they should claim. I don't think the role implies any particular power, and could be strong or weak, for all we know. Susan was obviously a Pevensie, but far and away the least pivotal to the plot. Frankly, I'd have believed a VT Susan claim every bit as much.

And we'd have a guaranteed scum caught - which is kinda the point of the game...

I'd be quite suspicious of a vanilla Susan myself.

I guess my other post didnt submit

Vote: Starbuck

We should wait for sufficient time for a counterclaim before the hammer vote though.

[Narninian]

I'd be quite suspicious of a vanilla Susan myself.

I guess my other post didnt submit

Vote: Starbuck

We should wait for sufficient time for a counterclaim before the hammer vote though.

As far as waiting for a counterclaim, I suspect that we won't be seeing any Rumblebuffin VT counterclaims.

While I'm willing to hammer Starbuck by deadline, to ensure a lynch, I encourage folks to take another look at bv310. The guy has:

1. Jumped on the 'L-3 is bad' immediately after Starbuck ->

opportunistic

2. Immediately backed off 'L-3 is bad' when Starbuck caught heat for it ->

wishy-washy

3. Avoids answering direct questions from multiple players
4. Admittedly votes Starbuck because he 'trusts dybeck' ->

following

Waiting for a counterclaim for Susan of course, not rumblebuffin. I actually agree with you on bv310 and that is why I had a vote on him, but forcing a third claim today might help scum more than it would help town. Choosing between a Vanilla townie tertiary character, and an uncontested Susan claim (power role to boot) seems like we have little choice.

[Narninian]

bv310 is still on the top of my list - but is it in our best interest to force a third claim today?

[Narninian]

That was kinda shady there RBT.

Yes, we want a lynch before deadline, but there were plenty here in the thread to do that closer to deadline. Add some discussion that you have not given much of lately and don't just end the day like that.

BV310 and Riceballtail are my top candidates if starbuck is what she claims.

[Narninian]

Well that explains his blind allegiance... which leaves....

Riceballtail - why the out of the blue hammer when we had time to spare? You hadn't said anything for quite a while and then -bam end the day.

[Narninian]

It would likely have ended that way anyway, but he appeared simply to finish of starbuck, and didn't participate prior to that.

[Narninian]

I don't think it would have been wise for a vig to kill last night.

[Narninian]

Evilsnail - do you feel pushing a third claim close to the deadline would have been more helpful to town.

If not, what alternative would have been better?

Lynching an unclaimed person (bv310 was the likely candidate there), or Lynching Manho (Who has an uncontested Susan claim). Once Manho claimed - our choices were limited with the rest of the day.

[Narninian]

I felt bv310 was acting scummier that Starbuck and I stand by that today.

[Narninian]

What is "ISO"?

[Narninian]

Discussion is awfully slow today.

Evilsnail main contribution so far has been to vote for me and back up that vote based on my actions on day 1. Obviously this biases me towards him, because I felt my actions on day 1 were right given the information we had. The only other thing I thought of doing was pushing bv310 to claim - which wouldn't have helped anything (unless it was a vigilante that killed the loves, but that would be too much of a coincidence I think to have scum role blocked and vigilante mis-kill on the same night) .

That said bandwagoning snail would be rewarding the lurkers - I want to hear more from everyone else.

Vote: wolframnhart

lurk-hunt

[Narninian]

unvote

for now - reading the rest.

[Narninian]

honestly I just put that vote on wolf because he hadn't posted since monday. I'd do the same for whoever else was lurking but it seems we are 1 vote away from lynching Evilsnail - as his first action of the game was to vote for me, with a weak case I'd like to see what he has to say. Do you have a claim Evilsnail?

With very little participation on day 1 and not much today, I'm still keeping an eye on RBT as well.

[Narninian]

Odd I must have miscounted the votes -

Vote: Evilsnail

[Narninian]

unvote

I have to admit my play has been a bit lazy today. I ended up with a lurker vote and then an OMGUS vote because there was a wagon there. Day 2 should have more evidence out there than that.

Alot of RL stuff going on, but Ill certainly look more closely to see if I can find better conculusions.

[Narninian]

No CC here. Time to look elsewhere imo.

Would a mass claim be helpful at this point ?

[Narninian]

I dont really think our sister should come forward, which is what would happen in a mass name claim, but very well.

I'm edmund.

[Narninian]

lets go with riceballtail.

[Narninian]

So...

riceballtail - Professor Kirke
Gawyn - ???
kikuchiyo - Peter
Hackerhuck - Father Christmas
Papa Zito - ???
Wolframnhart - Oreius
Narninian - Edmund
manho - Susan
Evilsnail - Aslan

I'd really like to hear from the remaining two, before day's end of course but just to comment on the roles claimed. I'm not comfortable voting for an un-counterclaimed pensevie child, which leaves out manho or Kiku - nor would aslan make sense as a anti-town role. Professor Kirke and Father Christmas are secondary characters - but Professor kirke never enters narnia in the (lion witch and wardrobe) book. Oreius was a character in the movie, but I'm pretty sure he's not in the book.

Based on roles alone, I'd be suspicious of wolframnhart, but based on play so far I'm more suspicious of riceballtail.

vote: Riceballtail

Could we get a full role claim ?

[Narninian]

(from rbt that is)

[Narninian]

also off-topic- I think hackhuck's claim goes with his avatar quite well!

[Narninian]

unvote

I don't want to lynch a rolecop.

Maybe we should have gawyn *not* claim and have RBT 'prove' his ability tonight?

[Narninian]

Revealing the 'full' info would prove (to papa zito at least) that riceballtail has the role he says he does, or at least guessed correctly.

the elephant of in the room is that Lucy recieved 2 gifts from father christmas - a dagger and a magic vial that restores health. This, I'm sure, is known to everyone.
If she has a power role (which Im sure of) that means she most likely she is the doctor or vigilante based on those gifts. I don't think its really to our advantage to have that be known to us (and therefore scum) today.

[Narninian]

Well, it appears that the theme is based on the movie. I haven't seen it, so are there any significant differences from the book?

I've seen both and the remaining claimed roles are both in the book and in the movie and played similar parts -so I don't really think it affects anything at this point.

Well, I targeted Evil last night, got no result.

i watched lucy, that's PZ, and can't get any result.

Two roleblockers? Methinks one of them must be mafia. I'm surprised that peter would target manho or Riceballtail, though.

[Narninian]

I dont have any powers but I know my brothers and sisters do. the flavor being that I never recieved a gift from father christmas, unlike my siblings.

[Narninian]

So we have a jailkeeper (roleblocks and protections from actions), a commuter (self roleblock and protect from actions), and there were 2 roleblocks last night but not both from those roles so there are THREE roleblocking roles out there? Seems kind of shady.

[Narninian]

I am a straight up vanilla townie - I know the other Pensevies are in game and I know they have powers as part of my role text.

That being said, With this knowledge I would say to lynching any of the non-pensevies should yield good results. I'm leaning torwards Hackerhuck or pwnman though

[Narninian]

*I'm not is what the first sentence should read.

[Narninian]

What role have we seen that could possibly counter the reviver?

Considering he only gets revived if lynched it seems a pretty limited role. with A scum roleblocker, lovers, 2 obscure roles as townies, it doesn't seem far fetched to have this power for Aslan who comes back to life after being killed in the closest thing to a lynching in the book (not in daylight but in front of a bunch of sentients). Then again the field is quite narrow as I know the pensevies are town.

Which means 3 out of the 4 (Hackerhuck, Evilsnail, Riceballtail, Pwnman) are scum.

Hackhuck has a weird role, but pwnman is yet another vanilla townie so I'd say we lynch pwnman.

[Narninian]

process of elimination. I know the Pensevies are town, which leaves 4 people, of which there is likely 3 scum. Hackerhuck's role seems odd, and yet another vanilla townie Pwnman seems unlikely considering I have no powers (just a little knowledge) and we had 2 vanilla townies already.

[Narninian]

Susan Claim

Well, That is quite the claim. I definitely expected to see her in the game, and

her allegiance is solid

.

I . I don't think the role implies any particular power, and could be strong or weak, for all we know. Susan was obviously a Pevensie, but far and away the least pivotal to the plot. Frankly, I'd have believed a VT Susan claim every bit as much.

I'd be quite suspicious of a vanilla Susan myself.

I'm not comfortable voting for an un-counterclaimed pensevie child

Consistent from the start that pensevies are town, and they have power roles. I don't see the issue with your quotes.

[Narninian]

VOTE: Pwnman

my earlier stated reasons; I've narrowed down scum to 4 people and he seems the least likely given the other roles out there.

I know from my role Pensevies are town, like myself. I was manipulated by the white witch but and I been freed and forgiven by my siblings. We now fight together against her. Unlike my siblings, I don't possess any special items (power roles).

[Narninian]

Also I'd like to point out the 'I'm havn't been lynched since I Am scum' is a fallacy. Pwnman apparently hasn't picked up his prod, so if scum the other 2 would have had to expose themselves to bring me to L-1.

Since you agree with me he is scum, lets lynch him.