Mini 912 - Little Golden Mafia (OVER)

[StrangerCoug]

I have to get ready for work soon, but let me tell you that I confirm that I am a mason (Country Mouse, by the way—I also refuse to claim my mason buddy). I honestly want to take a baseball bat to my predecessor's head for thinking that a hydra needs to sign their posts with which one of them made the post or else it's scum confusing the town.

I also have to agree with you guys that randomly bandwagoning is still random voting. I personally hate the bandwagon stage of the RVS, though.

[StrangerCoug]

My mason partner and I know each other to be town.

While I've read through once already, I want to read through it again so my head's in this game. I do find the timing of totallynotmafia's jump off my wagon weird, so

unvote: peanutman

and

FoS: totallynotmafia

pending if I find anyone else more suspicious.

[StrangerCoug]

My only scum read other than totallynotmafia is, ironically, Panzerjager. He pushed for my predecessor's claim too early to my liking, and I really don't like him asking for a confirmable role to be lynched anyway.

I'm split here, but I'll go ahead and

vote Panzerjager

.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh, and happy birthday, kunkstar7.

[StrangerCoug]

Well, I guess this is MacavityLock's first game with me as town, isn't it? xD

[StrangerCoug]

My only scum read other than totallynotmafia is, ironically, Panzerjager. He pushed for my predecessor's claim too early to my liking, and I really don't like him asking for a confirmable role to be lynched anyway.

I'm split here, but I'll go ahead and

vote Panzerjager

.

Not buying this. You played with Panzer in Mini 786. He was on your ass for little-to-nothing early on, and stayed that way for the entire game. You were both town. Panzer's always this twitchy, and you know that.

For those of you too lazy to look up the game:

http://www.msutils.net/multisolation/in ... rangerCoug

I also don't like how easily the votes on you melted away, even given DS' claim. I can't decide whether I find you scummier, or some of the players (totallynotmafia, peanutman, possibly MacavityLock, Trumpet Of Doom to a lesser extent) who seemed to swap as soon as it became clear that you weren't an easy lynch.

Vote: StrangerCoug

. You're still my favorite wagon.

To hell with Panzerjager's meta for posting little to no reason for his votes. I find it scummy, and if Panzerjager does it, that obviously means I find him scummy.

Oh, and also: you're not a confirmable role until you're dead.

I don't know whether you're trying to paint an NK target on me or trying to get my mason buddy to claim to bail me out. Confirmable-to-each-other mason is an idiotic fakeclaim as it outs the fakeclaimants as scum. If my buddy sees it appropriate to claim, that person will do so on his or her own accord. If he or she sees it better to stay hidden, he or she will.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't know whether you're trying to paint an NK target on me or trying to get my mason buddy to claim to bail me out. Confirmable-to-each-other mason is an idiotic fakeclaim as it outs the fakeclaimants as scum. If my buddy sees it appropriate to claim, that person will do so on his or her own accord. If he or she sees it better to stay hidden, he or

To hell with Panzerjager's meta for posting little to no reason for his votes. I find it scummy, and if Panzerjager does it, that obviously means I find him scummy.

Now I have to go meta you to see if you're always this dumb. You admit that Panzer has a tendency to vote aggressively and with little reasons regardless of alignment, but think that's indicative of scum anyway?

My wording implies that I don't care whether he does or not.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please delete the part of my last post between my two starting quote tags, incliding the first one.

[StrangerCoug]

So this is a policy lynch? You want to lynch him for behavior that you know is not indicative of his alignment? Why didn't you just come out and say so?

What makes this a policy lynch?

[StrangerCoug]

I'm actually making heads and tails out of you (his first post of Day 2 in Mini 716 came to mind), but I'll answer anyway. I cooperate with reasonable people.

1) For Panzerjager, do you believe aggressive behavior and baseless or near-baseless votes are a scumtell (ie, behavior he is more likely to engage in as scum)?

Aggressive behavior, no—I view myself as somebody who engages in this also. Baseless or near-baseless votes, yes.

As for the baseless or near-baseless votes:

1a) If so, this contrasts with your prior experience. Why do you think it's scummy anyway?

I like people to put their reasons in front of them. As I said, he pushed for my predecessor's claim too early for my tastes. I don't care for Panzerjager's meta (or anybody else's, for that matter) as heavy reliance on it is, in my opinion, a good way to lose.

As for the aggressive behavior:

1b) If not, do you think he's scum?

Yes.

1bi) If so, why?

Covered in response to 1a.

[StrangerCoug]

Time to pursue my other suspect from when I replaced in.

Vote: totallynotmafia

I know what I am, but you were awfully quick to jump off my wagon when all I claimed was my story.

The scum's also clearly power-role hunting. We don't know what the two recently dead are yet, though.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Ill.

Time to pursue my other suspect from when I replaced in.

Vote: totallynotmafia

I know what I am, but you were awfully quick to jump off my wagon when all I claimed was my story.

The scum's also clearly power-role hunting. We don't know what the two recently dead are yet, though.

I don't get why people (especially you) think it is so strange that I believed you - country mouse and city mouse make sense to be masons, if it had been a story without such an obvious relationship then I would have been dubious. If you are scum then it means that you either went through the little golden books and found country mouse and city mouse, hoping nobody else would have it, or you ARE country mouse and your scumbuddy is city mouse, which would be the dumbest claim ever because if your scumbuddy is lynched and comes up as city mouse, you're screwed. The first scenario is possible I guess, but involves a fair bit of luck, and is much more of a stretch than if you are telling the truth and you are a mason.

If I said that we know each other to be town and we actually don't, I'm effed. If I'm scum that fakeclaimed my buddy to be my mason, I'm effed. I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I'm not as idiotic as Phlight portrays me.

And what was the point of saying "I know what I am"? Stating the obvious a fair bit there, I should hope everyone knows what their role is.

"I know what I am" is my standard disclaimer for when I say something that I know could entertain the possibility that I'm scum.

And guess what? Phlight is now three for three for his "suspects" that refuse to hypoclaim. I reiterate that I am a mason and I refuse to claim any of his requested actions from me, as he should know that I did none of them.

Vote: Phlight

I told you scum were looking for power roles.

[StrangerCoug]

Why did you vote for Trumpet of Doom?

Because he's scum. This may or may not be related to my hypoclaim.

This is vague.

Explaining hypoclaim results introduces too much wifom.

Then why the hell did you suggest hypoclaiming at all? I don't consider it good play to just pick targets out of the blue.

Did Phlight just claim? Has hypoclaiming ever worked before?

Do your own damn Google searches.[/quote]
I may be a "play as I go" type of player, but I think these are reasonable questions. Everybody has the right to ask about what they don't understand.

SC already claimed mason. Pay attention, scumbag.

1) A seemingly serious attack is made against his seemingly incompetent scumbuddy.

Makes sense.

2) He sees the opportunity for an easy bus, and seizes it.

I think the operative word in your sentence is "easy". DedicatedScribe was a village idiot. Enough said.

3) His partner claims mason and then is replaced by a competent player. All of the sudden, his vote isn't so well-placed.

Your meta-defending Panzerjager was unwarranted regardless of how well-placed my vote was.

4) Another wagon forms. An easy one, for an overaggressive lurker, that he can jump on without it being too obvious.

Lurker I can see out of Panzerjager. Overaggressive is not really a scumtell, though that may be your point.

5) The next day dawns. His earlier 'suspicions' of his partner are nowhere to be found. Indeed, he agrees with everything his partner says without any questioning.

Fakeclaiming mason the way I have is idiotic.
The next big point is during our discussion over whether the partner should claim. Remember that this is, in his words "as much a theory discussion as anything else".

HoS: Phlight

- my vote's staying on DS until he fullclaims, and it might stay there after the claim as well (it depends what he says). If I unvote DS, you're next.

The fact that he's looking for a safe way to jump off of DS and a town target aside, he's launching a full-scale attack, but without a vote. He's trying to start a wagon without voting. This is another example of trying to spread suspicion while leaving yourself an out (see the early discussion between DS and I).

25 hours later, several people have weighed in and no one has taken the bait. He immediately and completely backs down. At the end, he adds:

(In other news, I should probably refrain from making decisions on someone's towniness or scumminess after about 11:15 PM GMT-6.)

This is scum talking. Town (barring very inexperienced players) does not feel the need to apologize for their suspicions. I can't see this reconciliatory tone coming from a town player in this instance.

Fast forward to today. His response to my hypoclaim mirrored his attack against me over whether the specifics of the mason claim. As his scumbuddies jump on the wagon, he gains confidence and the attacks increase.

Are you serious?
<snip>
In other news, your claimed hypotrack result on me is BS.
<snip>

*cough*Phlight*cough*

<snip>
I can't believe I have to explain this.
<snip>
Pay attention, scumbag.

This is not a townie who thinks he knows who the scum is. This is not a townie who knows he knows who the scum is. This is scum playing for an audience. A townie would not argue theory with someone he was this convinced was scum - why would you? What's the point in arguing theory with scum? Unless Trumpet of Doom is either very inexperienced or very childish, there's altogether too much bravado here for this to be anything but acting.

Also of note is Trumpet of Doom's response to totallynotmafia over his claiming that Panzer was at L-2 when he was at L-1.

Hopefully those are all satisfactory.

Here's that reconciliatory, sucking-up tone again.
I think it's pretty obvious that SC is scum, and I believe I've stated why. I'll do a case on dramonic when I wake up in about 10 hours if a townie wants it.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Well again.

@SC: I'm thinking that 213 wasn't finished when you posted it. Could you fix that, please?

Sure, since most of it also happens to be ill-formatted.

Did Phlight just claim? Has hypoclaiming ever worked before?

Do your own damn Google searches.

I may be a "play as I go" type of player, but I think these are reasonable questions. Everybody has the right to ask about what they don't understand.

SC already claimed mason. Pay attention, scumbag.

1) A seemingly serious attack is made against his seemingly incompetent scumbuddy.

Makes sense.

2) He sees the opportunity for an easy bus, and seizes it.

I think the operative word in your sentence is "easy". DedicatedScribe was a village idiot. Enough said.

3) His partner claims mason and then is replaced by a competent player. All of the sudden, his vote isn't so well-placed.

Your meta-defending Panzerjager was unwarranted regardless of how well-placed my vote was.

4) Another wagon forms. An easy one, for an overaggressive lurker, that he can jump on without it being too obvious.

Lurker I can see out of Panzerjager. Overaggressive is not really a scumtell, though that may be your point.

5) The next day dawns. His earlier 'suspicions' of his partner are nowhere to be found. Indeed, he agrees with everything his partner says without any questioning.

Fakeclaiming mason the way I have is idiotic.

The next big point is during our discussion over whether the partner should claim. Remember that this is, in his words "as much a theory discussion as anything else".

HoS: Phlight

- my vote's staying on DS until he fullclaims, and it might stay there after the claim as well (it depends what he says). If I unvote DS, you're next.

The fact that he's looking for a safe way to jump off of DS and a town target aside, he's launching a full-scale attack, but without a vote. He's trying to start a wagon without voting. This is another example of trying to spread suspicion while leaving yourself an out (see the early discussion between DS and I).

Makes sense.

25 hours later, several people have weighed in and no one has taken the bait. He immediately and completely backs down. At the end, he adds:

(In other news, I should probably refrain from making decisions on someone's towniness or scumminess after about 11:15 PM GMT-6.)

This is scum talking. Town (barring very inexperienced players) does not feel the need to apologize for their suspicions. I can't see this reconciliatory tone coming from a town player in this instance.

I also find this scummy, but for a slightly different reason—making excuses.

Fast forward to today. His response to my hypoclaim mirrored his attack against me over whether the specifics of the mason claim. As his scumbuddies jump on the wagon, he gains confidence and the attacks increase.

Are you serious?
<snip>
In other news, your claimed hypotrack result on me is BS.
<snip>

*cough*Phlight*cough*

<snip>
I can't believe I have to explain this.
<snip>
Pay attention, scumbag.

This is not a townie who thinks he knows who the scum is. This is not a townie who knows he knows who the scum is. This is scum playing for an audience. A townie would not argue theory with someone he was this convinced was scum - why would you? What's the point in arguing theory with scum? Unless Trumpet of Doom is either very inexperienced or very childish, there's altogether too much bravado here for this to be anything but acting.

I think this is a bit WIFOMy. Townies should be using theory to their advantage, and I can't think of a reason why they can't argue it with a scum suspect. This also reeks a bit of accusing him of being overaggressive, which, again, isn't a tell.

Also of note is Trumpet of Doom's response to totallynotmafia over his claiming that Panzer was at L-2 when he was at L-1.

Hopefully those are all satisfactory.

Here's that reconciliatory, sucking-up tone again.

This is something I'd probably have to look at in context, which I don't have time for right now.

I think it's pretty obvious that SC is scum, and I believe I've stated why. I'll do a case on dramonic when I wake up in about 10 hours if a townie wants it.

Do a case if you want, but I'm not sure I'll find it convincing as he's in my top half of my town reads.

[StrangerCoug]

Actually, I theoretically could have by saying the scum are hunting for power roles. (Yes, I count. What the hell ever.)

Now that I think about it, do we have an idea of behind whom kunkstar7 went?

[StrangerCoug]

Um, wolframnhart, if I understand the hider role correctly, #1 would implicate me as scum, and you haven't voiced any suspicions of me since I replaced in.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Could we have a votecount?

Absolutely not! Especially not at the top of the page!

[StrangerCoug]

Trumpet of Doom I can understand as Phlight's suspect, his other two scum theories are laughable. I disagree that hypoclaiming helps town in most cases, and while town shouldn't be afraid of dying, I can think of a couple cases where town should try not to. Someone hammer.

[StrangerCoug]

Yes, massclaim.

[StrangerCoug]

Half the game has been killed off and we don't have dead scum yet; therefore, if everybody's been playing to strategy so far, it was almost certainly 9:2:1 to begin with. If we had a vig misshoot last night, we're in a rare 10:2.

[StrangerCoug]

I'll pick first if everybody's fine with that, but I'd rather go popcorn.

No votes have been placed.

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

[StrangerCoug]

How about I pick the first person to popcorn?

[StrangerCoug]

You're first, Trumpet of Doom.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not willing to go after totallynotmafia, but if he's right about his claim he misplayed his role. If you're going to vig someone over selfish reasons, do it Night 0, not Night 1. I also notice that he failed to pick up my breadcrumbing dramonic being my scumbuddy (preemptively shooting down Phlight's suspicions of him in 219 and calling his dramonic-scum theory "laughable" in 234), but hey, I can't pick up breadcrumbs to save my life.

And, yes, the SK needs to claim.

[StrangerCoug]

Yeah. I find him as the SK very plausible.

[StrangerCoug]

I've been wrong five times already in this game though so I'm in no way confident. SC, I'd really like to hear what you think.

I think you shouldn't beat yourself up. I don't consider myself very good either.

Anywho, you're most likely the SK (setup reasons and the vague reasoning for killing dramonic), so lynching you is the wrong answer for town.

I have to agree with your case on Trumpet of Doom as most likely Mafia because of his sloppy voting, and I want to call lobstermania lurking scum. If you want a college dissertation, I will give a college dissertation, but I'd rather the town not rely on "follow the confirmed townie".

[StrangerCoug]

You didn't watch Sesame Street as a little kid, did you, totallynotmafia?

[StrangerCoug]

I'm just waiting on when we're ready to vote. Nobody's confirmed from where I'm standing, so I am at a disadvantage, but I'm still leaning heavily towards Trumpet of Doom being scum. I want to call peanutman his scumbuddy, but lobstermania is still a good pick for scum also.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't agree that MacavityLock is being demoralizing by speculating on the setup. It's not counterproductive either: we're most likely in 9:2:1, this is LYLO, but a 10:2 would make it MYLO at this point. 9:3 is mathematically impossible right now.

[StrangerCoug]

I wasn't saying ML was being counterproductive/demoralizing, I was talking about peanutman. Specifically, this post.

Oops

Allowing some time to make sure a quicklynch isn't happening.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh xD Silly me thinking it was three...

[StrangerCoug]

DocPotter, how is story name format wrong?

[StrangerCoug]

Try showing why you title claim isn't a failed fake claim, instead of attacking the player.

Proof that you're grasping at straws. The theme of this game is Little Golden. Anything more, and you're trying to outguess the mod.

Fail.

Vote MacavityLock

LYLO is not the time to be unreasonable like this. We're trying to find scum, and even if the correct way to go is to look at the titles, you cannot simply dismiss requests of/attacks on you as "fail". You have to tell us why it is fail, or you're not being of any help to us.

Vote: DocPotter

[StrangerCoug]

Not to mention that, if MacavityLock is scum, I'm shooting myself in the head.

[StrangerCoug]

*shoots himself in the head*

Yeah. MacavityLock did a good job as scum.