Mini 904 - Narnia: LWW Mafia (Game Over)

[Starbuck]

/confirm

[Starbuck]

Vote kikuchiyo

Been awhile since we've played a game together! What's up!

[Starbuck]

Unvote: kikuchiyo

I'm not comfortable with her having 4 votes already.

Vote: J.R.

I'm not comfortable with you seeing that and putting her at L-3.

[Starbuck]

Wolf, are you really FOS-ing me for trying to halt a quicklynch of a person on page 2?

[Starbuck]

Also... L-3 is MILES from a lynch. I'd be exceptionally comfortable with seeing three more people pile on to this wagon to get a hugely early Day 1 lynch because we could be fairly certain that these hypothetical quicklynchers were scum.

And finding 3 scum on page 2 can't be a bad thing.

L-7, L-6, L-5 are miles from a lynch, not L-3.

Are you seriously pushing for a quicklynch?

Seriously - you need to stop making like there was ever a danger of a quicklynch. L-3 on Page 2 has never, ever led to a quicklynch in the history of mafia.

You may think you're showing yourself to be the saviour of the town, but you're just misrepresenting this entire situation and it's creating a sideshow.

Wait, how did I misrepresent you again?

That's quite a strong accusation to say that I'm "showing myself to be the saviour of the town". Anything to back that up?

FOS: dybeck

[Starbuck]

@dybeck - Just how am I misrepresenting you? You still haven't answered that question.

Also, how am I twisting words?

You are saying I'm doing all of this and not providing ANY kinds of EXAMPLES.


Every single mafia game that I've played on this site is in my Wiki and I'm probably close to or over 30 by now.

[Starbuck]

I'm really not playing the White Knight card, and I find it to be hypocritical of both of you to be voting for me because I was trying to halt a quicklynch. I don't understand how that is scummy.

[Starbuck]

Last time I played with Starbuck I thought her AtE's were scummy, but unless she is putting it on to build meta(in which case its null), I find it to be more of a town tell. Either way, its not a scumtell.

Can you show me where in this game that I've used AtE?

Because I assure you, I have not.

[Starbuck]

I don't feel I have a "Why are you suspicious of me?" tone. I was asking questions and trying to spur discussion.

Also, trying to prevent yourself from being quicklynched. L-3 on page two is a bit much when there are 11 other players for people to pick from to RVS vote on.

[Starbuck]

bv, can you provide specific examples where I supposedly was white knighting?

Actually that question is to everyone who keeps using that term.

[Starbuck]

@PZ: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10078 - Lynch achieved on page 1.

y halo thar newbie game from over a year ago.

You said it never happens, I provide evidence that says otherwise.

It's the exception that proves the rule.

Starbuck is still scum.

Wagon gogogo.

How am I scum again?

I really don't understand.

[Starbuck]

Heil, I didn't say she was scummy, just that I found her reaction a bit over-the-top.

What about my reaction? Do you have anything specific?

Or will you keep continuing to be vague?

[Starbuck]

So now, you are backpedaling.

[Starbuck]

It's been a crazy couple of days with work. My apologies all. It's eval time for my rank in the Navy.

On Papa Zito

However, you drummed up fear by announcing you were worried about a quicklynch.

Further, you simultaneously announced you were saving us from said danger by unvoting and calling attention to the problem.

It's like when Clorox runs TV ads showing telephones (literally) crawling with germs, then shows how wonderful their product is at killing said germs. Drum up the hype, drum up sales.

I can see a scum player doing this to earn townie cred.

Hopefully that's crystal clear now.

Wow. Reaching much. Can you provide specific examples for each of those accusations?

On dybeck

I'm not sure I'd be entirely unhappy about a kikuchiyo wagon, either.

I'd sincerely like to see her vote, and to give a sincere justification for her choice, for starters.

You say that in Post 106, and she voted in here.

Do you feel it was sincere?

Starbuck. I'm calling you on your lurking. Get back in here and talk to the town, please.

You've obviously never played with me and know that the only reason that I'll won't be around is because work picked up in some way or another.

For the record, for all of you, I am active duty in the United States Navy. I can't spend my entire work day on the computer and some days, I'm just too plain exhausted to stay awake at night and catch up. But for the most part, I think I'm one of the most active players when it comes to my games.

Do me a favor and check out some of my previous games for my normal amount of activity before you decide to call me out on anything. I do everything in my power to not be a lurker because I despise lurkers. I definitely take great offense to being called one, and I'm willing to bet that someone is going to use this in their "case" on me, but I honestly don't care because most people who have prior experience with me know my opinion about lurkers and know my normal activity level.

Unfortunately though, sometimes my job and life gets in the way of my activity here and I can't control that. So why don't you do a little background checking before you start slinging a word like lurker at me.

On kikuchiyo

So you say the following in Post 117:

I am participating as I see fit. Which vote are you suggesting I make? I am not sold on Starbuck as scum. I see no reason to "commit" to anything at this point.

I don't disagree with the reasons players are voting for Starbuck(PZ's makes sense), but meta tells me to overlook her for now.

Then you go ahead and vote in Post 127, while saying the following:

However, she now seems to be avoiding this thread.

Quite a fast turn around with a bit of opportunism, don't cha think?

My apologies for my job taking priority over my mafia game on the internet.

If you do a profile search of my posts, you'll see that the only thing I've done mafia wise in the past few days was set up the game I'm modding. I've had to leave my games by the wayside.

On Grandi

I can understand if you would rather have other ways out of RVS, but i would really like to hear from everyone against a random wagon why they think that's scummy.
Also, Starbuck, a lot of games on this site start with random wagons. You must have come across a couple if you really played 30ish games here. Do you always respond this way, or is there something especially scummy here? Links/examples of you reaction to random wagons this way please. Also, people who played with her before, have you seen her react like this before?

A lot of games start with random wagons? They may start with random wagons, but normally don't get up to L-3 barely off the 1st page.

You've never played with me before I'm guessing. No, I don't always respond this way. I saw something, and I didn't like it and I said something about it. Apparently though, others are taking it as a scumtell.

And no offense, but I'm really not going through my 30+ games to appease you. If you want to read my meta, feel free, but I'm not gonna do your homework for you. If that leads to my lynch, so be it.

I can see absolutely no reason for a townie to react the way SB did, trying to "stop the quicklynch". The only thing i can come up with is if she thought the wagon would go straight to lynch, and i simply can't believe that someone who played 30ish games here believes there is a chance a random wagon without a case or anything is in danger of being lynched when it is at L-3

There's no reason for me to believe that it couldn't happen. You are so absolute in this. It bothers me.

Any semi-decent player could see there was no danger of lynching there, and if there was it would only be good as it exposes scum.

Not a fan of your ad hom.

On bv310

So far, Starbuck and PZ are the most scummy to me. I think my opinion of Starbuck right now is more just based on eveybody else's reactions to her.

So you aren't going to bring anything new to the table? That's awesome!

[Starbuck]

On bv310

I don't have anything new to bring because I haven't seen anything new to bring. The last couple pages have been rehashing the same basic points. The only new thing in the last two pages has been Dybeck's point on PZ's following, which is good, but not really a whole lot to go on, until PZ responds.

How can you have absolutely nothing new to bring?

Who is your top suspect? Why?

On dybeck

Actually, since you ask, I think you're very possibly both scum.

Why?

et you did manage to appear as soon as you were called on it...

Not really. As I said to kiku, if you go to my profile and look at my posts over the last few days, the only thing you'll see mafia game related would be my setting up of my Mini Theme.

Life > Online games. Sometimes it happens. I'm one of those people that abhors lurking. If you need someone to verify this, please talk to Papa Zito.

It couldn't happen. It never has happened in any of your 30+ games and it won't happen in any of your future games.

It's like you are a 3 year old stamping your foot on the ground.

Again, so absolute in this. Why the confidence that it NEVER COULD HAPPEN?

On Papa Zito

Thank you for providing examples, but I disagree with you.

You said I drummed up fear, to me that means that others would be fearful of a quicklynch and that they were vocal about it. Who are the others that were so fearful?

How was my question towards Wolf "simultaneously announcing that I was saving us from danger by unvoting and calling attention"? I asked Wolf what his intentions were.

You are definitely reaching with both of these accusations.

On kikuchiyo

Whatever makes you sleep better at night, it's still opportunistic. I think you were just finding a reason to OMGUS my original vote on you.

You have no case other than the fact that I wasn't here. I wasn't avoiding anything.

Do you have any type of questions for me or are you going to continue this weak case?

[Starbuck]

A claim? Am I at L-1?

[Starbuck]

Why is it such an unlikely event that I am town? Why are you tunneling?

I don't like your push for my claim and I'm not going to claim, because I don't feel a claim right now is helpful for the town.


I really haven't been caught in a massive lie. Do me a favor and look at my normal activity levels via the thread that Kison keeps updated and my normal number of posts per week.

[Starbuck]

Actually

Unvote
Vote: dybeck

I'm not liking the agenda that he's pushing, especially for an early claim. We still have plenty of time in the day (a week and a half until deadline).

[Starbuck]

I cannot comment on my game threads and what was said there. All I can say is read what those posts said.

I also stated the words

MAFIA WISE

. Replying to a thread in general discussion isn't hard, catching up on a game is, and this WAS NOT the only game that I wasn't caught up on.

[Starbuck]

Also kiku and dybeck, you guys are jumping all over me, but neither of you have said a word about Sibelius.

Why aren't you asking for his claim?

[Starbuck]

So you are saying that I drummed up fear in the guy who can't even come up with his own opinions?

I NEVER said that I was "saving us from danger". I never said that I believe kiku to be town. I just said that I didn't like quicklynches. I wanted to see what Wolf's response would be to my question.

[Starbuck]

It is completely relevent. Just how is bv being fearful? You can't read tone through text.

You keep putting words in my mouth that I never said.

[Starbuck]

Sibelius is the guy who hasn't posted at all and who was prodded in the same post that I was by Kdub.

Or do you not check the player list, Kiku?

[Starbuck]

So the question still stands, why are you both jumping all over me about lurking when that guy hasn't said a word?

It's not misdirection. I'm just wondering why he isn't getting the same courtesy that I am receiving.

[Starbuck]

@Everyone - How does everyone feel about dybeck calling for a claim so early?

[Starbuck]

@wolf - You ask why Sib of all players. I've already answered this. He was prodded at the same time that I was, but kiku and dybeck aren't jumping all over him. I'm being accused of lurking and yet, he still hasn't posted.

And he hasn't posted in a week.

[Starbuck]

I also meant hasn't posted as in hasn't posted since his prod, not hasn't posted at all, period.

[Starbuck]

So wolf, are you gonna re-think your vote on me? Or are you gonna be opportunistic because you misrepresented what I meant?

[Starbuck]

kiku, why do I need to claim again?

I don't think you've answered this question.

[Starbuck]

No one has stated a reason why I must claim.

Only that I "need to".

So until I get a decent reason as to why I "need to claim". I will not be doing so. You might as well lynch me.

[Starbuck]

I did not avoid the thread, but it doesn't matter how many times I say it because I won't be believed.


All you have been doing is tunneling on me. You have not mentioned anyone else.

Why don't you try to play the game rather than use outside influences?

[Starbuck]

This is a very opportunistic bandwagon and I will not appease those who are so opportunistic with my claim.

[Starbuck]

Why not bring some of your own opinions to the table instead of following the crowd?

[Starbuck]

Rumblebuffin

[Starbuck]

I do not claim until L-1.

L-1 is here. I have claimed who I am.

[Starbuck]

I play theme games because I know the material. I honestly can't stand those who try to act like they know it all when they admittedly just read the wiki.

/sigh

[Starbuck]

Lurking in plain sight as far as I can tell, and this last post of yours. It's rather non-committal, and as I said above, you're basically admitting to waiting for a viable case against someone to pop up so you can jump in. That's pretty scummy.

And the basis behind all the votes on me are because I have been "active lurking".


People need to quit tunneling and take a good look around because I am not the scum you are looking for.

[Starbuck]

Rumblebuffin

Rumblebuffin! Wicked... we found a scum Day 1!

And they don't have safe claims! Awesome!

This is going to be a piece of cake!

My guess is that you never have read the books or read them ages ago?

[Starbuck]

kiku and dybeck are pushing my lynch the hardest.

@Both - Why are you pushing this so hard? Besides, my absence, do you have anything else about me that's scummy?

[Starbuck]

You may want to try again on the claim.

What is that supposed to mean?

This sounds like you have a counterclaim. Do you?

I'm only reading my role PM.

[Starbuck]

I'm Rumblebuffin, Vanilla Townie.

A giant who was turned to stone by Jadis until Aslan breathed his breath on me and helped me escape her White Castle.

[Starbuck]

Because you are going out of your way to be obnoxious, I'm going to wait awhile before I answer anything from you.

Mafia does get heated, but you don't need to be so snarky.

[Starbuck]

It's not so much anti-town as I need to take a breather and read back through the entire thread.

Why are you going out of your way to portray me as such? Why are you presuming you know what's going on in my head?

[Starbuck]

I'm here. I've got a notepad document in the works. I'm just trying to arrange my thoughts.

[Starbuck]

I'm almost done. My document is at home and I'm currently at work.

I would like to post it before a hammer falls.

[Starbuck]

First, an iso on Kiku and what I find scummy

On Kikuchiyo

Last time I played with Starbuck I thought her

AtE's were scummy

, but unless she is putting it on to build meta(in which case its null), I find it to be more of a town tell. Either way, its not a scumtell.

Here she states, more or less, that I ALWAYS use AtE and very much feel that it's a misrepresentation of myself and how I play, especially when she only has played ONE other game with me.

Honestly, the only person here who could probably give an accurate representation (given he's town) of my meta is Papa Zito.

But when I call her out on it, she backtracks with the following:

Sorry, Starbuck, rereading and I realize you're

not using AtE.

What I am referring to is

the emotional tone

I am reading in your posts. The "Why are you suspicious of me?" attitude. Your posts sound alot like our game where we went at it over role pms. Null tell for me at best. Though I don't think L-3 is dangerous in RVS, I agree that you overreacted a bit. To me, that's an emotional move. The only other explanation is scum motivation. But I don't see it.

How does reading "emotional tone" not equal reading AtE? To me, it's the same thing and this feels like a backpedal.


Also, she goes from "not being sold on Starbuck as scum":

I am participating as I see fit. Which vote are you suggesting I make? I am not sold on Starbuck as scum. I see no reason to "commit" to anything at this point.

To 15 1/2 hours later with her very next post voting for me, but she doesn't vote for me because she thinks I'm scum, she votes because she feels I'm avoiding the thread. It's very opportunistc jump onto my bandwagon.

PZ: I never implied or said I was giving anyone "carte blanche". The previous exchange was reminiscent to me of a similar argument involving Starbuck in another game where I convinced myself she was scum. That is why I have been ignoring it.

So you are saying that I reminded you of our ONE other game, which I guess makes you an EXPERT on me . What convinced you there that I was scum versus what convinces you here?

Your whole case on me depends upon the fact that I have had shit going on my life and haven't posted. That's all your case on me is.

And my evidence is your ISO Post 10, specifically

In between you posted to this site 19 times in at least six different threads. Of those 19 posts onlny 5 were in the game you are modding. You also posted every single day. I checked that before I voted you.

Its why I voted you: because from my pov you have been "ignoring" this thread.

YOU DON'T VOTE FOR ME BECAUSE YOU THINK I'M SCUMMY. In fact you don't even post that you think I'm scummy, or for a direct quote, "reeling scum" until your Post 12 in ISO. So how am I "reeling scum"?

You still have NOT provided ANY TYPE of case on me. AT ALL.

All you keep backtracking to is the fact that I wasn't caught up here and I posted elsewhere. You are using outside of the game influences rather than things that have happened here.

So my other questions is, if you are SO AGAINST lurking, why are you voting for me when I have 43 game posts?

bv310 only has 20
manho only has 20
MadCrawdad only has 15
Sibelius only has 12
Riceballtail only has 16

I have more than double the game posts of all of these people with very much substance (not saying that most didn't provide substance, but my posts aren't one-liners), but you voted me for avoiding the thread. This makes SO much sense .

On my supposed misdirection to Sibelius

I have also felt very much tunneling from kiku. She barely mentions any other suspicions, and when I mention someone else who was prodded at the same time I was she responds with

Who is Sibelius and why should I care? You seem to be responding to our pressure with misdirection.

I don't feel it was misdirection. She doesn't even know who else is playing. She is just dead set on my lynch.

I find it interesting that when in trouble Starbuck points to Sibelius, and now Sibelius defends Starbuck. Bv310 is also a person of interest. I think we have enough information for a day 1 lynch. That doesn't mean we need a hammer in two or three posts, but this wagon should not be derailed except under extreme circumstances of which the likelihood is slim.

Now, see the complete misrepresentation here. She states that when in trouble I pointed to Sibelius. Let's look at my original post shall we?


Post 161 - I asked both kiku and dybeck why they haven't said a word about Sibelius.

Let's look at the mod's post as to why I ask this question...

Sibelius and Starbuck have been prodded.

They are willing to let Sibelius slide, but aren't willing to let me slide. How does this possibly work?

On her pushing for my claim

And she rides dybeck's tails on the whole getting me to claim issue....

Starting from her ISO Post 11 straight on through.

Let's get Starbuck to L-1 and get a claim. Though I don't support any type of massclaim as Dybeck earlier suggested, I do agree with him that your response to this wagon warrants you for lynch and that you should therefore claim sooner than later. Theme games can be broken with massclaims and so I would be against it because it is not in the spirit of the game,

but if you want this pressure to dissipate you better be someone important.

There was no need for you to lie about your activity. You have failed to reconcile the issue.

And the bolded very much feels like a threat to me. Like I can control what Role PM that mod gives me?


She blatantly states in ISO Post 12 that

More votes on Starbuck.

She

needs

to be claiming.

I ask her why I need to claim and she blatantly ignores the question.

Here's the answer I receive:

Star: You are going to be lynched. Please claim. You have been asked by several players, you have still not reconciled the fact that you specifically avoided this thread for several days, and unless you are someone important I see no reason not to lynch you. Name claim is fine, but you must give us something. You have done very little scumhunting besides accusing me of omgus and pointing to Sibelius.

More votes on Starbuck please. If she refuses to claim I am fine lynching her without one. In Aslan's name, let it be done.

SHE NEVER ANSWERS THIS QUESTION AND COMPLETELY IGNORES IT.

After my claim, when I'm finally pushed to L-1, she continually pushes for my lynch

Now after I claim at L-1, she still says that

I see no reason not to lynch Starbuck. The claim is what it is and I am not going to try and outguess the mod. I don't agree with everything Dybeck has stated, but I certainly see nothing in Starbuck's posts or claim to stop this lynch.

Anyone else against the Star lynch needs to speak up and explain why.

And to Wolf, she says the following, this is all from her ISO Post 15:

A vanilla claim should not stop a lynch.

Why not?

The reason for claiming before lynch(especially on day 1) is to help town avoid hitting a power role. Your unvote due to claim is noted. Saying "her role makes sense to me," is a giant cop out.

Why?

You pretty much set it up to where it wouldn't matter who the fuck I claimed because you wouldn't believe me anyways.


She also keeps repeating over and over again that

I'd rather not run someone else up to a claim today if it can be helped.

More examples of pushing along my lynch:

Please get back on the wagon.

Starbuck needs to be lynched.

Starbuck should still be lynched. All suspicions will then be able to stem from her flip.

She also makes a lot of WIFOM-ish comments

Mod may very well have handed out safeclaims.

Had she claimed earlier it would have had more credibility in my eyes. She didn't just refuse then, she fought her claim tooth and nail all the way even though several players asked. That said, by refusing to claim earlier she opens up a period of time which is now questionable. She does not claim power, so why fight so hard? Some town reasons for it, but more likely than not she was either waiting on the mod for a decent fakeclaim(in which case she should be upset one wasn't provided), or busy putting together one of her own.

So you are saying if you weren't at L-1, but you had votes, and you were asked for your claim, you would have provided it? I highly doubt this.

Why should I give scum the benefit of knowing who I am any earlier than L-1?






Kiku has been tunneling on me all day. She barely mentions anyone else. She has misrepresented my words and ignored my questions.

I am regretting doing the right thing now. I definitely feel that kiku should be lynched.

[Starbuck]

ITS THE FACT THAT YOU LIED ABOUT YOUR ACTIVITY WHILE YOU WERE AVOIDING THE THREAD AND HAVE FAILED TO RECONCILE WHY.

I stated what was going on, but you want to not believe me. So I have reconciled why, just because you don't want to believe doesn't mean I haven't done it, and this NON GAME RELATED ISSUE is what caused you to vote me.

You didn't vote me because you thought I was scummy.

[Starbuck]

What convinced you there that I was scum versus what convinces you here?

Not sure what you are asking. please rephrase this.

You stated that in the last game we played in that you convinced yourself that I was scum when I wasn't. What about my play there made you feel I was scum and what about my play here makes you feel that I'm scum? Is there any difference in my play?

I have been told that my normal town meta is scummy. So if you convinced yourself there that I was scum when I was town, why can't the same be applied here?

[Starbuck]

I am answering for my behavior. Quit saying that I'm not.

[Starbuck]

Ebwop:

In case you missed it(and I don't see how you could have considering you quoted it), here is the answer as to why you had to claim:

You are going to be lynched. Please claim. You have been asked by several players, you have still not reconciled the fact that you specifically avoided this thread for several days, and unless you are someone important I see no reason not to lynch you.

Name claim is fine, but you must give us something. You have done very little scumhunting besides accusing me of omgus and pointing to Sibelius.

I bolded it so you could see it.

This was when I was at like L-3, which according to EVERYONE ELSE in this game is no where close to a lynch. So why should I have claimed IF I AM NO WHERE NEAR A LYNCH IN EVERYONE ELSE'S EYES?

You are deadset on the fact that I'm going to be lynched. What if I'm not?

[Starbuck]

Also, kiku, you can stop being so condescending and rude. It IS against the MS Forum Rules and Guidelines.

[Starbuck]

You also misrepresent me here:

You refused to claim, but you ALSO REFUSED TO POST ANY CONTENT.

I refused to claim until I reached L-1. I didn't refuse altogether as you are trying to allude.

[Starbuck]

You keep saying I'm being emotional, but you do not provide examples.

Of course, you are going to contort everything I say into the way you want it to mean, because that's what you have been doing all game.

And I know you'll be the first one to say tomorrow (if I die today), "Oh! But she was soooooooooooooo scummy!"

So right now, I'm going to wait and see if anyone else has questions for me. I have bowling league that I need to leave for in about 10 minutes. So when I'm gone for a few hours, don't go whining about how I'm not here.

[Starbuck]

This wasn't the only thread I wasn't caught up on as you continue to misrepresent more.

I can't state them, but they are in my signature. I'm still not caught up on one of them.

[Starbuck]

That definitely wasn't AtE. I was reminding you of the Forum Rules and Guidelines. Mafia games are supposed to be fun, and you shouldn't start going out of your way to post anything that is an attack of ad hom rather than an attack of a person's actions.

But as I said before it doesn't matter what I say because you will find some way to twist it for your own personal gain.

And that, my friend, is scummy.

[Starbuck]

Unvote: dybeck

Vote: kikuchiyo

I'm waiting to see if anyone else has any questions for me besides yourself, but since you continue to go out of your way to be so rude. I'm going to hold off on who else I find suspicious.

[Starbuck]

Also, I would very much appreciate that you don't paint my play as you are, you have played in TWO games with me. You have no idea how I play. Before you start making assumptions and acting like you know everything there is to know about my meta and playstyle, you need to stop and maybe look into my close to or over 40+ games on site as well as talk to those who I have played with a lot.

And who are you to assume that I'm continuing to avoid. You are assuming that I don't have multiple windows of MS open and are keeping tabs as I'm working on notepad documents.

So quite assuming because that is WIFOM which is also scummy.

[Starbuck]

I'm very much not comfortable with dybeck's calls for early claims.

[Starbuck]

Also, PZ, the only reason why I voted Kiku at the top of the page was because of the following:

Stop arguing with me and give us your take on what has happened. Do not use my name, reference me, talk about me, or ask me questions. List your other suspects and your reasons why. Your failure to honor this request is contributing to the inevitability of your lynch.

She's being completely hypocritical. She's been tunneling on me all game and wants me to list my other suspects and reasons why, but she has not done the same. All she has done is continually tunnel on me.

I want her to back off tunneling me and think about who else (in her mind) may be scum.

Her severe overreaction to my post on her as well as everything else in the last page and 1/2 bothers me, but I'm willing to be that she's town over scum.

I would just like her to do the same thing she's DEMANDING me to do.

[Starbuck]

It will be moved. I want to read manho in iso and see what you all are talking about.


And yes, I request kikuchiyo to provide cases on people that aren't me.

[Starbuck]

In fact,

Unvote

[Starbuck]

On bv310

Reading bv310 in iso....


I do not like how he was so quick to parrot me when it came to the quick wagon on Kiku...

He states in his ISO Post 1:

J.R., why would you put kiku at L-3 this early? A quick-wagon is not the best way to start this day.

I don't believe the above is fearful as dybeck was trying to say in Post #, especially because as soon as he's questioned about agreeing with me. he backpedals to say that he suspected me (as seen below).



And in his very next post he states that he found me suspicious (but never states it prior to this post)

Honestly, the people posting frequently so far have been relatively good with their styles, and although I did find Starbuck suspicious before, I find the quick L-3 move less odd now.

Now, why would he question J.R. about putting Kiku at L-3 if he was suspicious of me unvoting?

Does not compute.

Also, he's suspicious of me, but he NEVER directs any questions towards me.


In his ISO Post 3:

Honestly, the people posting frequently so far have been relatively good with their styles, and although I did find Starbuck suspicious before, I find the quick L-3 move less odd now.

When did you find Starbuck suspicious? Initially you agreed with her.

Regarding the quick L-3 move, what would you say changed your mind?

I didn't like that she called it scummy to have an L-3, but I didn't like having anyone at L-3 this early, especially in RVS. It just seemed that there was too much opportunity for it to go bad, but Starbuck whiteknight-ing the cause seemed like an attempt to build town cred without having to do anything all that pro-town.

My first question is: where before this post did I say L-3 was scummy? Oh that's right, I NEVER DID.

My second question is: how can you be suspicious of me for not being comfortable having someone at L-3 for so early and then say that you didn't like it either? How can you be suspicious of me when you feel the same way?

I'd also like to point out that the above quote is the first time that the word "whiteknight" is brought into the game.


It strikes me as odd that he suspects me but he turns around and votes manho for no reason.


He goes back and re-reads me in this post and it seems like he's trying to redeem himself, especially from his fence-sitting.

I'd like to see Star's answers to some questions that have been posed to her before I make up my mind.

This bothers me because besides his re-read of me, he never directs anything to me.

and from the same post...

I think my opinion of Starbuck right now is more just based on eveybody else's reactions to her.

So he admits that he has absolutely no case of his own.

He also says he finds Papa Zito scummy for...

PZ on the other hand, seems really scummy by trying to lead the town. It's annoying to play with someone who always tries to lead the game, and most players that lead are usually scum.

Care to provide examples of this?


After this, I ask him if he has anything to bring to the table and replies with

I don't have anything new to bring because I haven't seen anything new to bring. The last couple pages have been rehashing the same basic points. The only new thing in the last two pages has been Dybeck's point on PZ's following, which is good, but not really a whole lot to go on, until PZ responds.

and also

As for the voting, I haven't voted because I was waiting for a real case to be made. As it is, the case against Starbuck is pretty good, but I think there's a good chance that she's actually just a very lazy townie.

He wants everyone else to do his work for him. I'm not sure if this is more scum or lazy townie approach.

I also think it's funny at this point that he calls me a lazy townie when at least (at this point of the game) I've provided substance and my own opinions, rather than mindlessly following everyone else.

I think I trust Dybeck here. Star's play has just been going down over the course of this day.

Again, he thinks he trusts dybeck and still brings nothing new to the table before voting.

Manho, if you want Starbuck lynched why haven't you switched your vote yet? You defended her, then abruptly switch to "we need to lynch her", so why hasn't your vote changed? Trying to bus from your scumbuddy without putting her back at L-1?

These are some pretty aggressive words for someone who jumped on my bandwagon at L-2 and has provided absolutely nothing substance wise.



So he finally answers some questions here...

I originally got a vibe off her Rumblebuffin claim of possible power role trying to vanilla claim in order to avoid a lynch.

Now, I can see where others wouldn't believe my VT claim and that's fine, but why would you put me at L-1 if you believe me to be a POWER ROLE of some kind?

Her trying to deflect onto the source, and trying to justify the weakest vanilla claim I've seen in any game I've played on this site are what made me more willing to vote.

You've been a member of the site since 14 Nov 2009. How is it the WEAKEST claim you've seen?

I'd also like to take this chance to point out my suspicions against Manho.

First, he nearly whiteknights her cause (I snipped this post, but the whole thing is valid in my argument.

His use of the word "whiteknight" in this game is a little too much for me.


Overall, bv310 has done nothing but follow dybeck's lead and not really provide any of his own points. It very much feels like coaching.

[Starbuck]

@HackerHuck - My comment about Sibelius did not come out of no where. If you go back and look at the mod's last vote count prior to my post, you will see that I was prodded as well as Sibelius. So I was wondering why Sibelius wasn't being given the same courtesies as I was. If you need me to provide links to the mod's vote count at that point and where my post is that I mention why no one is questioning Sibelious I will do so.

But you are about the 3rd person now who has misrepresented me as saying I brought Sibelius's name out of no where at that point, when I did not. I also have explained this more than once.

[Starbuck]

Actually, Starbuck, I have a question for you.

Now, presumably, even you'll admit that your claim is not a strong one. I'm sure that you would have felt far more comfortable if you'd been able to tell us that you were Aslan or Lucy, for example.

With this in mind, may I ask you to please consider this post from wolframnhart?

I believe Starbucks' claim. Again I am not going to try and out guess the mod on which characters he put in the game, but her role makes sense to me.

He appears to genuinely accept your claim wholly, even though you're able to offer us a character that has little more than a cameo role in the book.

Now we know you're claiming to be pro-town. I've made it very clear that I don't believe you. But that aside for a sec.

Purely for argument's sake, let's say that you're telling the truth. Do you take his post at face value, and that he genuinely believes your (presumably vanilla) claim without question? Or do you think he's scum trying to bolster his pro-town credentials if you get lynched today and flip town?

First, I'm not a fan of trying to outguess the mod and I'm very tired of your assumptions of what I would be comfortable with. The role PM I received says that I am Rumblebuffin and a Vanilla Townie.

Characters that have little more than cameo roles are perfect vanilla townies imho.

But on wolframnhart, I haven't gotten to complete my iso on him yet and honestly your repeat of quoting of this post multiple times has grown rather old.

I am doing as requested and providing cases on those I find scummy. Having played with Wolf before, he hasn't done anything that has set off my scumdar. Until I can iso him, my read on him is null right now.

[Starbuck]

On dybeck

I'm not a fan of dybeck's WIFOM, as illustrated in the following:

Also... L-3 is MILES from a lynch. I'd be exceptionally comfortable with seeing three more people pile on to this wagon to get a hugely early Day 1 lynch because

we could be fairly certain that these hypothetical quicklynchers were scum.

Seriously - you need to stop making like there was ever a danger of a quicklynch.

L-3 on Page 2 has never, ever led to a quicklynch in the history of mafia.

This is a lie because of the link of that Newbie game that was provided. My point here is that it has happened, which directly contradicts what dybeck is saying here.

He also is trying to say that there couldn't have been a chance of a quicklynch. There is always THE CHANCE. It might not have happened here, but the possibility is always there. That's all I was trying to say.

But even still later on, he won't back down from this supposed "fact":

It couldn't happen. It never has happened in any of your 30+ games and it won't happen in any of your future games.

It's a distracting topic, yes, I realize this, but it's still something that bothers me.

You may think you're showing yourself to be the saviour of the town, but you're just misrepresenting this entire situation and it's creating a sideshow.

The whole situation was blown WAY OUT OF PROPORTION by people who were not me.

The situation didn't get misrepresented by myself either, it was misrepresented by those who blew it out of proportion.


Also dybeck, I see something now and I want to correct it. Look at your Post 56, and the second quote where I ASK you how I misrepresented you. I thought that you were saying that I had and I wanted you to clarify. Now that I re-read your original quote within there, I see that you didn't mean yourself. I apologize for the mix-up. I wasn't trying to twist your words. I had read it wrong and thought you were trying to say that I misrepresented you in some way. That's what I had a question mark at the end of

Wait, how did I misrepresent you again?

and why I asked for clarification.

So I never twisted your words as you blatantly go out of your way to say. I don't understand how asking for clarification (i.e. the question mark at the end of the sentence) could lead to you saying that I was twisting your words.

The same goes for the top quote because I asked you a question, which means I was asking for your response. Now, if I blatantly said "dybeck is pushing for a quicklynch" there, THAT would be misrepresentation, not the asking of a question.

dybeck on my claiming early

Seeing as how we're deadlined, would you consider claiming now - to save the town the time it would take to build a wagon all the way to L-1?

The thing that bothers me the most here is that EVERY GAME is deadlined. It also feels like it wouldn't have mattered to him (as well as Kiku) if I claimed when they asked or not because they both would have had the same reaction as when I claimed at L-1.

No. But the rate of contribution is such that it will take a while to get you there. And we're deadlined.

In the unlikely event that you're town, your claim will show it. And the more time we have remaining in the day after your claim, the better. You could really help the town by sharing what you know now, rather than later.

Face it, you've now been caught in a massive lie, in addition to the misdemeanours that were already casting a spotlight upon you.

Thought you might bring yourself to do SOMETHING to help the town?

I don't like his continued emphasis on "deadlined".

I still believe as I said above that it wouldn't have mattered if I claimed then. It felt to me that he and Kiku were trying to cut off the information that the town would gain by people jumping on my bandwagon.

To him and Kiku, there is no possible way that I can be town. They are both victims of tunneling and there is a significant connection between them.

I also don't like the threatening tone in the last line of this post. Kiku has also taken the same threatening tone with me.


Along with the call for my claim to be early, he also starts calling for a massclaim

I'd like nobody to state reasons in favour of a massclaim. But I'd like anyone AGAINST a massclaim to say so, with a full argument why they think it would be a bad idea.

dybeck outguesses the mod!

Everyone else - we're looking at no more than a town of nine people here. Beyond a shadow of a doubt we have Peter, Lucy and Susan Pevensie. No mod would omit Aslan. No mod would omit Tumnus, and we have Mr. and Mrs. Beaver.

The remaining two will be some permutation of Professor Kirke, Father Christmas and Edmund Pevensie.

Not freaking Rumblebuffin. Let's lynch this phoney already.

Why would he try to do this other than still be on the warpath of discrediting me?

The Kiku-bv310-dybeck connection

Kiku's and bv310's unrelentless trust in dybeck is very weird. It very much feels to me that they are following his lead and that he's trying to protect them. He never mentions either of them in a negative light.


I see this in things such as...

This post, which is just pure coaching.

BTW Bv310 is not the scum you're looking for.

One thing I want to point out real quick is that Kiku goes on and on about how I'm scum and that Rumblebuffin is my safeclaim, but when I claim, dybeck says in Post 29 that

Rumblebuffin! Wicked... we found a scum Day 1!

And they don't have safe claims! Awesome!

So which is it? You guys obviously have some things mixed up in the mafia QT .


This post rubs me the wrong way because he points out that Papa Zito was following him, but not anyone else.

[Starbuck]

Also for the record, according to the rules on the front page, a player only needs a majority of votes to be lynched.

Just a reminder.

[Starbuck]

Actually we can manho.

Vote: manho

Now they are even.


I'm gonna go read you in iso now. There are others who have questions for you that you need to respond to.

[Starbuck]

you need 7 votes to get a lynch, and given that some player post only once a day, you probably can't get that in this little time.

This is true prior to deadline.

At deadline, majority wins.

[Starbuck]

You also didn't put any time in on pressuring me. You actually started off defending me and backpedaled rather quickly.

[Starbuck]

Then this...

B3) A lynch will occur when one player has the majority of votes for the day.

And this...

B6) If a lynch is not reached by the time the deadline arrives, there will be no lynch.

Rather contradict each other when it comes to the deadline, but I see what the mod did here.

[Starbuck]

So kiku, why do you prefer my lynch over manho's? I have now provided the content that you were demanding.

I also made a request that you provide your suspects (and cases on them) on people other than myself. I have done as you have requested. Why are you ignoring the exact same request from me?

I don't remember you mentioning much of manho. Are you voting him just to lynch someone or are you voting him because you suspect him?

[Starbuck]

I NEVER claimed my situation was the same as his. Please provide an example of me saying this if you think I did. Otherwise, I only asked why Sibelius (who was prodded at the same time as me) wasn't being questioned and I was. Why was I the only one when he was prodded too. That was all.

I won't win with the deadline issue, but every game that I've played in has been deadlined, as well as every game that I've read through. In my personal experience on this website, I have NOT seen a game that didn't have deadlines of some sort.

[Starbuck]

Then this...

B3) A lynch will occur when one player has the majority of votes for the day.

And this...

B6) If a lynch is not reached by the time the deadline arrives, there will be no lynch.

Rather contradict each other when it comes to the deadline, but I see what the mod did here.

Starbuck: I think you're confusing a 'majority' with a 'plurality'. It's seven votes to lynch - or it's a no lynch.

You are correct, which is why I said "I see what the mod did here".

[Starbuck]

No, that is definitely not what I am saying.

The whole issue at that point was my absence and because Kiku and dybeck made it as such. Kiku's original vote on me is just over 12 hrs after she says that

I am not sold on Starbuck as scum. I see no reason to "commit" to anything at this point.

She votes for me in her very next game post. How can she go from one post not being sold to the next voting? I originally took her vote as her trying to give me pressure because she barely if ever says that I'm scummy or that I'm scum until she starts berating me on how I need to get over the fact that I am today's lynch and there's nothing I can do about it.

Sibelius was ALSO absent, but had provided less content then myself at that point still.

So I was was wondering as to why, due to his lack of content/substance, he wasn't being questioned as thoroughly or just questioned at all.

There is so much tunneling on me that those that have barely provided content are getting away with lurking/not participating.

I have repeated this now more than I have needed to. This conversation is now becoming distracting because the same points are just being driven over and over. Please get to the point soon so we can get away from this distracting conversation.

[Starbuck]

I didn't lie.

[Starbuck]

At that point, I wasn't caught up on any of my games and as I said most of the posts were "hang on, i'll be catching up soon". I don't even remember now the order that I caught up on them.

You also wanted to wagon me for posting a nomination in the Scummies.


The point is that it's an outside the game influence and this game is not my only game that I am playing and not my only priority.

What I want you to do is to make a real case and stop using outside the game influences to fuel your vendetta towards me.

Because if it wasn't for my absence you and Kiku would have nothing to bitch about because neither of you have any other suspects other than me.

[Starbuck]

1. I'm guessing you didn't read my wall of text on you where I realized that I misinterpreted your words? Please do me a favor and go re-read. I asked you questions because I wanted you to clarify what you meant. You are the one who twisted and has kept twisting MY words.

2. I gave my cases on the three people I find most suspicious. How is 3 people half the game?

3. Weak and reluctant? You don't even know how much I wish I had a more well known character.

[Starbuck]

Honestly, because dybeck and kiku have been so horribly tunnel visioned the entire game.

I actually had to look him up when I got my Role PM to remind myself who he was. I was expecting like the cool minotaur or something.

But I am the queen of being a VT, so I shouldn't expect to get cooler role PMs than that.

[Starbuck]

Let it be known that kiku is thus refusing my request to provide other suspects.

This is ignoring which is scummy.

[Starbuck]

It's not how it HAS to be Kiku.

You just have a vendetta and you are refusing to STOP TUNNELING.

[Starbuck]

Btw, I'm not scum.

I have my normal Vanilla Townie role that I get every fucking game because Starbuck can NEVER land any cool roles.

Trust me, I wish I had something decent. I wish it every game, but it barely, if ever, happens.

[Starbuck]

I think you need to go back and read our last game if you are really town.

Because your read is completely off.


You said you read me as scum. That you do so now and you did so then when I was town.



Or how about those cases that I requested of you?

If kiku flips a non-town role at some point, I can see why she did not adhere to my request. But as town, she has no reason not to adhere. It's very hypocritical that she request something of me that she's not ready to do herself.

[Starbuck]

And there he goes parroting Kiku now.

Dude, can you ever bring your words to the table?

That'd be awesome!



Are you gonna provide examples? Or just continue being scummy as you have all day?

Unvote
Vote: bv310[/u]


I really have no idea why I'm being lynched when there's so much scummyness reeking from bv310.



Townies, do not forget my case on him and the link between him, kiku and dybeck.

[Starbuck]

Stupid code

Unvote
Vote: bv310

[Starbuck]

Also @ Town,

My lynch is COMPLETELY scum driven by OUTSIDE THE GAME INFLUENCES. I asked those who jumped all over me to go and read my posts since they accuse me of posting in other games to see that most of those were "hey i'm catching up". I feel that the real reason behind this is maybe because I didn't catch up with this game first? I don't even remember which game I caught up on first, but the only person to do the above was Papa Zito.

Kiku is taking the stance of KNOWING my scum tells when she's only played with me a total of ONCE before. She admits she "convinced herself that I was scum" in that game when I was really town. Boy, after today, I really hope she learns a thing or two. I stated a bit ago that I felt she was town. I'm not feeling it anymore. This is a very weak wagon of people following other people, parroting, not providing cases, and voting someone for outside the game influences.

Remember that when asked to do the same thing she asked me (provide cases of people other than herself), Kiku refused to provide cases on people other than myself.

Also do not forget the amount of pressure that Kiku and dybeck have placed on my lynch all day with the "YOU WILL BE LYNCHED" and "GET OVER IT, YOU ARE DYING TODAY" posts.

[Starbuck]

Mod: I voted bv310 before Papa Zito.

Fixed

[Starbuck]

manho, you are agreeing with me on all 3 of my suspicions.

You realize this right?

[Starbuck]

Their undeniable link is what bothers me most and I hope town explores that more tomorrow when you all finally see that I am town.

[Starbuck]

Their undeniable link is what bothers me most and I hope town explores that more tomorrow when you all finally see that I am town.

you really think they are all scum?

Did I say that?

No, I didn't.

Do I think they are all scummy?

Yes, I do.



You can do scummy things and be perceived as scum, and be town. Just look at Day 1's soon to be mislynch.

[Starbuck]

You know I've been wondering the same thing, Hacker.

It was brought on and on about my absence, but I keep forgetting Rice is even playing this game.

[Starbuck]

Nice hammer, Rice.

No case on me, no nothing.



Town, you have a long way to go. You are letting the scum walk all over you. Don't forget anything I said once you know that I'm telling the truth.

[Starbuck]

@Kiku - I hope (for your own sake) that you are scum and not town. Your play has been reeking.

[Starbuck]

Any last questions for me before the mod gets here?

[Starbuck]

And you are still alive today? Wow.

My thoughts exactly.

[Starbuck]

It pisses me off that I was jumped all over me about my lack of participation due to real life events, but ABSOLUTELY NOTHING got said to Rice or bv.

Kinda hypocritical, don't cha think?

[Starbuck]

Also, to add on to that lurker factoid, Kdub is currently looking for a replacement for Sibelius.

You know the guy I asked about, who wasn't being pressured as much as me.

Dude lurked out.



Too many lurkers getting away with murder. Literally.

[Starbuck]

All I have to say about this game is don't question the obscure VT claims.

[Starbuck]

Well, not don't question, more like don't discount them.