Mini 901: Real Time Mafia (Over)

[Fishythefish]

Hello all! Reading, I'll be caught up soonish. Anything urgent to look at?

[Fishythefish]

Elli’s “policy backup lynch” is an interesting plan. I tend to think that it’s a bad one – too easy to be lazy about it. The discussion of it is fairly unilluminating.

CSL criticises the idea, but waits until Plumegranate validates this criticism with a vote before making a move. Feels like he wants someone to hide behind.

bigmc’s confirm post is suspect. The line I don’t like is “I also don’t like the “I represent the opinions of everyone” attitude”. Because that wasn’t what Elli had been doing, but that’s a reasonable impression from someone else’s post.

Once the game starts, this:

Vote: Elli

I see how there could be a pro-town reason for his push, but that's incredibly WIFOM-heavy. I think it was blatantly scummy, and just because it was obvious doesn't mean it should be ignored.

feels like fence-sitting. Also, by talking about whether or not Elli’s actions are scummy, he manages to fail to mention why they are scummy.

185 is also horrible. 189 explains why very well.

vote bigmc

for being scum.

FoS: Elli

for the wagon on Anna. I can understand wanting to stop the DRK lynch, but a refusal to give your justification for voting someone because you think they are scum is extremely off.

Re: quicktopic. SB claims a scum read on DRK in it. I’d like to know why – I don’t see how this arises (whereas in the main thread, I can understand). There’s no reason for this discussion not to be had here, but I intend to pursue it there as well, because we can quote, reference post numbers etc. Expect more on this.
The only other relevant thing about SB in there is a little DRK-jester speculation, but it doesn’t look scummy here. She hardly posted there since the joking around phase.
I need to have a closer look at SB in this thread before forming a good read on her.

[Fishythefish]

@don: your play here is very different from in our recent game, when you were town. This worries me slightly. Comments?

I expect to be able to get entirely to grips with this game about this time tomorrow.

[Fishythefish]

@don: your play here is very different from in our recent game, when you were town. This worries me slightly. Comments?

I expect to be able to get entirely to grips with this game about this time tomorrow.

tell me whats different. tell me what worries you. then i can comment.

Your posts here are significantly longer, and contain more reasoning. You are playing much more like a standard mafia player. It seems consistent with caring more about your image than you did in that game (even before you were cleared).

I agree that bigmc is talking complete nonsense about Elli's plan. It seems like that his misrepping of Elli's actions and thought processes is deliberate. The thing he is attacking is a caricature of scum leading town. I far prefer his lynch to that of SB.
@bigmc: Elli's plan was to have a lynch as a backup, in case we couldn't decide. There are obvious protown reasons for getting a lynch ASAP in a time-critical game. There are also cons to having a backup lynch (particularly town laziness). If you think the cons outweigh the pros, fair enough - I think I agree with you, just about. But to say that this is so obviously true that anyone with the opposite view is scum is ridiculous. And given that Elli thought a backup lynch was desirable, a policy lynch is the obvious way to go.
To call a backup lynch a quicklynch, a lynch or a policy lynch is a total and utter misrep. It is totally clear to me that there is a plausible protown thought process leading to Elli's idea, and it I struggle to believe that anyone can fail to see this.

About SB:
- I'm awaiting an answer, here and there, about the QT. Until we get one, this is scummy.
- I think SB's play could be described as using quite a lot of words for not much scumhunting. This is a scumtell for me.
- I don't understand farside's reasoning in 367. What exactly has SB done here which makes her scum?
Overall, this wagon is ok, but no better than that. If SB has a convincing answer about DRK, then I'd put her only at slightly scummy. There is stil plenty of time to get a bigmc lynch, and SB keeps going-to-be-lynched status even without 6 votes.

[Fishythefish]

fish: depending on when i replace into a game or if i start it from the beginning really determines how much i "care" about my image. if i replace into a game that is 40 pages in i have no control over how i am viewed and so don't think about it much at all. if it seems like i am "trying" in this game then you are reading me correctly. i am on a five game town win streak and i don't want it to end, unfortunately i may not have any control over that due to my willingness to replace into crappy situations, but that's another story.

Thanks for this, that rings true. Could you give me a link to a finished game you've played from the beginning as town?

[Fishythefish]

What exactly doesn't make sense to you? Tell me, so I can use paper and pencil to explain. I can't quote anything from the QT, you know. It was something DRK said that I can't see a townie saying. Fishy can confirm, as I already posted what was in there.

SB has now addressed this in the QT. In fact, she pretty much already had, I missed it. I will paraphrase what she finds scummy:
DRK was making a post, talking about claiming his neighbours (after he had claimed he was a neighbour). The gist of what he said was that there was no reason to worry about being claimed as neighbours, because in the case that he was scum, his partners already knew who we were. Frankly, it's pretty hard to convey what SB sees in this post without giving you the precise form of words, which I can't do. I can sympathise partially with SB over this one - I think it's totally understandable to see the post as a minor scumtell. But the level of certainty that arose from that scumtell, here and there, is a bit off.

I see no good reason for a jailkeeper not claim their targets, who at some point may be able to confirm or counter her claim. Unless I've missed something, there's no risk of outing anyone. Conversely, there are extremely good reasons not to claim duration or recharge time, and I definitely don't want SB to claim the time period over which the person was jailed.

If Tony's kill is due to a vig, I'd like that vig to step forward. Knowing the recharge time of the scum kill(s) is

important

, and is probably worth more than protecting your identity.

[Fishythefish]

It should be noted that, with TM dead, SB isn't at majority and sort of never has been.

@mod:

as things stand, what would be the lynch?

[Fishythefish]

You see, if I claimed who my target was, there was a chance scum would use that information. A jailkeeper doubles as a doc, you know.

Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't see how scum would use the information.
I'm suggesting you claim your past target, not any future ones.

[Fishythefish]

fish: any town games i link to would be useless me thinks. most i could refer to(finished) are a bit older and my playstyle undergoes constant metamorphosis. tbh, i feel i have matured quite a bit on this site. meta is useless against me. i have made sure of that.

OK. In that case, I'll probably have a thorough look into your meta when I have some time.

[Fishythefish]

I'm tempted to suggest Flare as a backup lynch until the time that someone actually claims scum.

@Flare: there's no good reason to suppose one of the neighbours is scum. (IMO, there's also no good reason to suppose SB is town). Your saying that everyone thinks or thought that at least one of the neighbours is definitely scum is an appeal to the majority, which makes it look like you don't believe in your stated opinions. I believe it's also simply false.
You asked whether I "confirmed SB's claim". Neighbours get to talk to each other. If you like, I'll ask her privately what her role is; she may forget herself and claim something else. Failing that, there's no way I can confirm or deny her claim.

Fos: Flareon

This could easily be VI play. However, it feels like Flareon has found a set of easy reasons for voting, and is following it blindly, because he thinks it will help him avoid suspicion.

Personally, I'm glad I'm not a vig with a charged shot atm. manho or Flareon? I'd hate to make that decision.

[Fishythefish]

I can sympathise partially with SB over this one - I think it's totally understandable to see the post as a minor scumtell. But the level of certainty that arose from that scumtell, here and there, is a bit off.

Hindsight is 20/20 of course. When did SB reveal this "slip"? Before or after she was a lynch target? I am curious to know if Annie saw this and if she responded to it. Please feel free to share Annie's feelings on this...SB you can answer this one if you like.

She revealed this slip when DRK was near a lynch. She was under no pressure herself. Annie didn't post in the QT after that.

@Juls: Why do you want me to claim my target, if any? I would claim my targets once the time has gone, but I won't when I have not decided to use my action or when the action is in progress. Tell me, what exactly do town win knowing who I targeted?

What we gain is, potentially, the ability to confirm or counterclaim you ability.

However, thinking about it:
1) If SB is scum, there's a good chance she's a roleblocker - so even a verified claim wouldn't mean much.
2) It's difficult to claim targets without revealing something about duration and recharge times.
So I withdraw my request for a targets claim, unless and until SB stops a NK.

@mod:

I think you counted my FoS in 448 as a vote.

You're right. It has been fixed.

unvote, vote: bigmc109

[Fishythefish]

An advance warning; deadline hits at 5am my time, so I won't be around immediately before deadlines. I should be able to make it on ~5 hours before deadline to cast a final vote.

I'm still very much in favour of a bigmc lynch.

[Fishythefish]

Hmm.

Not at all a fan of the manho lynch idea. Reading him, there's just nothing to make me think he's scum (or, for that matter, town).

I think Flareon is only marginally more than averagely likely to be scum, and the same goes for SB. I need to take a good look at a few other players, who I've yet to get a handle on.

For the moment at least,

vote: Flare

because it would be better than nothing.

[Fishythefish]

Guys trust me on this one please, We NEED to wagon Fishy into the claim zone due to something I can't say, and something I won't reveal until after he claims.

Vote: Fishy

I will make a partial claim at this point: I can think of no investigative role that would conclude that I am scum (barring sanity issues or the like). In particular, I haven't made any suspicious-looking visits in this game, and I'm not, to my knowledge, a miller.

[Fishythefish]

OK. I can go with that. Naturally, I expect some justification for this, probably sooner rather than later, but frankly I don't think scum rolefish by asking people what their role is. In fact, I can give you a little more:

The best answer to your question is "other". I also have the potential to play a part in at least one of the other role types. In the right circumstances, I could seriously hurt the scum. This is

much

more likely to happen if they don't know my role.

[Fishythefish]

@Elli: are you totally set on claiming? I think revealing my role right now would be a mistake. I have no idea what your role could be here, but if you are town, you are misinterpreting something.

I should warn you that, at this stage in the game, there is absolutely no way I'm going to fullclaim. There is a detail of my role I'm going to totally refuse to reveal, literally until I'm the lynch and it's about 12 hours until deadline. If your investigation hangs on that aspect of my role (which I kind of doubt), then this exchange is going from bad to worse.

[Fishythefish]

In case the above is misinterpreted: I am prepared to mostly-claim now, if Elli asks again. I'm not demanding that Elli claims first - just asking him to think things through one more time.

[Fishythefish]

Actually: screw that. Idon't want to be NKed.


I am a Gunsmith.
I was given an explicit list of roles that would show up as having a gun:
Cop/Watcher/Trackers, Vigs, Other Gunsmith, Paranoid Gun owners, SK's, and Mafia. NO OTHER ROLES HAVE GUNS.
It should be obvious now that I had a recent investigation of Fishy which he has shown to have a gun.
Coupled along with my gut read on Ann and some other stuff, it should be obvious I'm thinking that Fishy is scum.
The role questions I asked now are pretty obvious now. If he was a Cop/Tracker/Watcher/Gunsmith he would have chose the Investigative section. If he was a vig, the killing. PGO is impossible because I'm still alive.
His more recent posts shows he clearly does not have one of the listed town roles.
Hence he's Mafia or an SK.

Wrong.
I'm a jack of all trades. I have/had three one-shot abilities, one of which is a vig shot. These abilities share a common timer.

Before anyone comments on this claim, or ask for any more details,
@Elli: does the wording of your claimed role pm mean that the role I've just claimed cannot possibily exist? If in doubt, please ask the mod.

When Elli has answered that, I will discuss this matter further.

[Fishythefish]

My pm has a very clear list of the roles with guns.
Either zor screwed up or you're fakeclaiming. I'm inclined to believe the latter.
Fullclaim please.

pm the mod and ask him whether your role forbids mine. There's no reason he shouldn't answer. I think it's unclear whether or not JOAT including vig is forbidden by your claim.

@everyone: if Elli is scum, he has a difficult decision to make about whether we are in direct opposition. Please don't make this decision any easier for him.

[Fishythefish]

It makes sense that a JOAT doubles as a vig, but then the "other" option Fishy chose wouldn't. I mean, by "other" I was thinking something between the lines of voting ability or lynching.

Really? What would you have chosen from that list? Bear in mind that I didn't know the purpose of the question.

@everyone: if Elli is scum, he has a difficult decision to make about whether we are in direct opposition. Please don't make this decision any easier for him.

Don't understand what you're saying. Explain clearer please.

Pretty irrelevant now. I was saying that if you are scum, you had to decide whether or not you are 100% sure I'm scum. This decision would have been made easier by knowing how our claims were going to be received, among other things.

[Fishythefish]

A review of some of the players in this game:

Flareon: early play is active lurking – posting lots without content. Fails to give reasons for votes. Lines like “I guess it won’t kill me”, “I believe DRK”, “I really hope you are right about this” from his votes on DRK, Elli, Anna/me respectively, smell like an attempt to put the responsibility for his vote one other.
Since the first lynch, he’s actually changed his play significantly – from sheep to a cross between sheep and faillogic. Votes since then:
Vote on me for being the third neighbour.
Vote on bigmc – sensible deadline lynch vote. However, the line that went with it was “I really hope SB is telling the truth” – which is both sheeping and really not the point when switching to bigmc.
Vote on me during the recent me-Elli episode – no great problem with this one. Again we have the sheeping line – “I’m trusting Elli on this one” – but here, sheeping was a pretty decent option.
Finally, vote on Elli.

Elli claimed for nothing and forced Fishy to also claim for nothing. That's pretty scummy if you ask me. Elli could be a mafia watcher and saw that Fishy had a target and claimed Gunsmith. It's in the wiki so that means it wouldn't be hard to make up that role. Add the fact that Gunsmith or Flavor Cop is not on the list of roles provided by the mod. I know the mod also said roles could be based on that list but I think Elli forced Fishy to claim because he is in fact a mafia watcher.

Unvote

VOTE: Ellibereth

How's that for being a sheep, SB?

Elli clearly didn’t claim for nothing, and nor did he force me to claim for nothing. What do/did you see in his recent play that is not consistent with a protown gunsmith?
It’s fair to say that, if Elli is mafia, he or a buddy is fairly likely to be a tracker/watcher, trying to do a 1 for 1 swap with a PR (these are the only roles I can think of that could know I am a PR, without knowing my actual role – and I think it’s fairly clear from Elli’s play that, if scum, he didn’t know my claim in advance). It’s a minor point, but the fact that Flare singles out watcher, without referencing tracker, makes me think that Flare has mafia watchers on the brain. Flare: why did you mention only mafia watcher here, when tracker is equally possible?
The point about gunsmith not being in the list of roles is actually a really good one. It’s a shame it’s not true.
This vote is very badly reasoned. This isn’t a good scumtell. What makes me think it’s indicative of Flare-scum is that last line: he’s deliberately going out of his way to cast an original vote.

At the beginning of the day, I was a bit concerned by the majority of the suspicion being on two players I saw as potential VI/lurkers. Rereading Flare, he is much worse than this. I’ve never seen a player post so much, and cast so many votes without commenting on

any

in-thread reasons for anybody to be scum. He’s done a bit of role speculation after claims, and that is literally it. I don’t think that’s how people play the game when they are trying to work out who the scum are. I’m now very, very happy with a Flare lynch.

@Juls: I dislike your vote on manho. A major reason seems to be the play of Jebus in a game you modded. This kind of argument really gets to me – it’s just “scum lurked, you’re lurking, you’re scum”, which is a logical fallacy. In general, I don’t see any evidence that lurking is a scumtell. In this game in particular, manho is getting quite a lot of negative attention for his lurking – why would he be continuing on purpose as scum?
Juls has said a couple of times that he thinks Flare could well be newbtown who shouldn’t really be in this game, but doesn’t seem to have applied the same thought process to manho. This seems somewhat inconsistent, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised by Juls and Flare being on a scumteam at this point.

SB remains on my scumlist for reasons which are well discussed elsewhere. Little has changed on this front recently.

manho – I treat the lurking as a nulltell. And there is little else.
@manho: why is asking for the lynch of a claimed PR a scummy thing to do?

[Fishythefish]

farside voted for Flare in 542.

@Juls: I didn't quite word that right. You're giving Flare a big benefit of the doubt by writing him off as newbtown. The benefit of the doubt you're not giving to manho - that he is a genuine lurker - seems less far fetched to me. You may have insight from modding, but all but the luckiest games have lurkers, and if you really think it's a scumtell then one of us has an incredibly unrepresentative experience. I suspect that in fact you've recently spent a lot of time reading one extreme example of lurking, and that has skewed your view on the issue.

[Fishythefish]

Sorry for doublepost, forgot to bold that for the mod's attention:

@mod: farside voted for Flare in 542.

corrected, thanks

[Fishythefish]

@Eli: will you please answer my question about if you investigated any other players?

I think it's best for me not to anwser that question.

I think if you have a negative investigation (which is a cast iron inno), you should reveal it.

Obviously, we absolutely don't want to know whether you have a failed investigation or not.

I think that

assuming Elli town

, the rest of the failed Anna wagon is a good place to look for scum. Because Elli was pushing that hard, and if it had gone through, Elli and DRK would have been looking very bad indeed.

If Flare flips scum: Juls's manho bandwagon feels like an attempt to derail Flare's. dj also went with manho over flare. I think these players, especially Juls, have an increased chance of being scum.

I watch the P-fruit wagon with interest. Waiting on Plumen's reply before I comment further.

[Fishythefish]

Not much to say, and not much time to say it, just checking in. Happy with the current lynch.

[Fishythefish]

We’ve had kills 10 days, 10 hours after the start and 10 days, 2 hours after that. The scum kill timer looks to be 10 days, unless we are being deliberately deceived (unlikely, but possible, in which case it is less).

I need to rethink this game in the light of Flare’s flip.

[Fishythefish]

@ani: examples of those posts of dj's please?

I'm thinking SB is scum. In our neighbour QT, I pointed out that the first nightkill was a bit over 10 days after the start, and advised her to be jailing ~9-10 days after that kill. It's reasonable not to take that advice, but to ignore it to the extent that she did, saying that the scum had not NK'd after less than 10 more days were up, is very odd. Since then she hasn't posted in our QT, having previously been active (replying to questions consistently within a day or two). I also have lingering suspicions over her performance on the DRK wagon.

vote: SB

[Fishythefish]

I fail to see a connection between my claim and Elli's death. If any, scum is waiting for me to claim to make the kill.

Fishy, btw, I would love to see a proof of your claim. You claimed yesterday, I'm guessing you have something as of now worth of claiming.

In conclusion, proof or die.

Vote: Fishy

I've got no desire to reveal anything more about my role atm. I think doing so would hurt the town.

I think this is a horrible OMGUS. Nothing has changed recently, except for me voting you, and prior to this you had a protown read on me (expressed strongly in our QT).

[Fishythefish]

First of all SB did fishy actually say anything to you in the QT about noticing the timing of the first kill?
Second I have to say that vote from SB comes off as OMGUS.
Finally I agree with SB some info from fishy in regards to his JOAT ability and anything he learned would be helpful

1- Yes, however, as I said to him, those aren't facts. For all I know, scum can have a recharge time of one day, and just decided to use it after I claimed. And, as I told him, I find rather suspicious that he tries to use that as a fact. I've caught more than one scum this way, you know.
2- Yes, a bit omgus, I agree. I also agree that I don't get a strong scum feeling from fishy. However, there's something there telling me that something's odd.
3- I agree with myself too.

Ani's case is good. Loving it. Lack of Dj's reply makes it better.

The things I called facts are a) we had a kill after 10 days, and b) that

points to

a scum kill timer of 10 days. Not that there

was

a kill timer of 10 days, just that it pointed at one. The first of these is obviously true. OK, the second isn't quite a fact, but it's pretty clear to me that an kill happening after X days makes it more likely that it has a timer of X days. Trying to say that I had information only the scum have is ridiculous.

My originial comment came a few days after the first NK.

@manho: please elaborate as to why you find SB scummy. Who else is likely scum?

[Fishythefish]

Fishy did you learn or doing anything with your joat ability?
This is lylo and anything of value would be helpful.

If at any stage I have information which I feel will lead to a higher chance of a scum lynch, I will reveal it. Until then, I'd much prefer to keep the scum guessing over what I can still do and when I can do it.

@SB: if you were suspicious over my guess as to the scum kill timer, why not say so before I brought it up? If not here, then in our QT.

[Fishythefish]

Fishy did you learn or doing anything with your joat ability?
This is lylo and anything of value would be helpful.

If at any stage I have information which I feel will lead to a higher chance of a scum lynch, I will reveal it. Until then, I'd much prefer to keep the scum guessing over what I can still do and when I can do it.

@SB: if you were suspicious over my guess as to the scum kill timer, why not say so before I brought it up? If not here, then in our QT.

[Fishythefish]

I'd expect that, if you think something you find significant to the game, you either tell me or have a reason not to.

[Fishythefish]

SB: I'm not saying you should trust me and give me all your reads. I'm just saying if you found something scummy, why did you keep it to yourself?

[Fishythefish]

This game urgently needs more activity from more players. It's very likely that we will lose if we don't lynch scum today.

@SB: after the first kill, how likely did you find it that the scum had waited for longer than their recharge time to shoot?

[Fishythefish]

I actually agree with manho on this one - SB's recent posts make me doubt my read somewhat. They feel genuine.

@dj: if you think ani and SB are partners, why aren't you voting one of them? Why do you think they are partners?

[Fishythefish]

The mechanics of this game are such that we don't need to worry about voting in lylo. In fact, I can easily see a mad scramble to get a lynch at the end happening, which would be bad.

There is one thing to be cautious about; having votes around near deadline, if you can't get on to change them.

I'd still like you to answer why you think ani and SB are scum, and what if anything is the connection between them.

You seem to have gone dramatically into quiet mode just in time for lylo day, which stinks of scum trying to coast to victory.

[Fishythefish]

Oh sorry - talking to DJ there throughout.

[Fishythefish]

Right, access is going to be a bit spotty until deadline. I'll be able to get on and vote and stuff, though. Players in the game:

farside: town
manho: probable town
Juls: no read to speak of. Wasn't comfortable with his play around the manho wagon. Needs to get his reads out there asap after his V/LA.
ani: didn't have much of a read on p-fruit. I'm not sure I quite believe ani's case. Leaning scum
dj: Not comfortable with the change in his play at this important stage.
SB: most likely scum
Of the scummy players, the two who correlate well are ani and SB - ani's attack on dj came as SB was coming under pressure, and they've been ignoring both the wagons on each other and the cases they each made. I'm happy with lynching SB at the moment.

[Fishythefish]

Less scumhunting, less justification of reads, less of anything that isn't a direct response to someone else.

[Fishythefish]

@Everyone tomorrow is the last day before deadline. Please, please, please start giving this game more thought.

DJ: Why have you lost interest in the game?
Morph: if DJ is scum who do you think is his scum partner
Fishy: What is for the flip flop on Bunny from saying town to scum virtually within 1 post of each other?

I had a pretty strong scumread on SB based on a few things (primarily, play on the DRK wagon and ignoring my thoughts on the kill timer). However, her reaction to the second point have read as pretty genuine on a gut level, which weakens my read a little. I still think she is fairly likely scum.
I'll get on again a couple of times before deadline, probably for the last time in ~15 hours from now. Here's what we need to do:
1. Get a lynch, on SB or ani. This should really, really happen well before deadline, because of 2.
2. Having done 1,

everyone unvotes anyone who isn't the lynch before deadline

. Assuming we're in lylo, it only takes one town-on-town vote hanging around for the scum to get a mislynch. This step is important - if you can't get on again before deadline, don't leave votes hanging around unless we haven't yet got a lynch.

[Fishythefish]

@fishy, will you take the lead and switch to the ani lynch?

Absolutely not. I think SB is more likely scum than ani.

I'll get on once more, in about 5-6 hours.

An SB lynch is the way to go.

[Fishythefish]

So, it looks like there's no 3-man scum team.

Given yesterday, I'm not seeing DJ and ani as scum together.

[Fishythefish]

vote: DJ

To people voting me: the idea that one of the neighbours had to be scum has recently sprung up again. I really can't understand that - noone has expressed that sentiment in a long time, apart from ani.

[Fishythefish]

So, it looks like there's no 3-man scum team.

Given yesterday, I'm not seeing DJ and ani as scum together.

nice omgus.

To people voting me: the idea that one of the neighbours had to be scum has recently sprung up again. I really can't understand that - noone has expressed that sentiment in a long time, apart from ani.

who recently expressed this? why do you think ani is town?

I thought the votes for me from you and particularly Juls were partly at least based on that. Was I wrong?

I didn't say ani was town here. But I think you're scum, and so ani probably is town - yesterday's play from the two of you doesn't look much like distancing.

[Fishythefish]

you implied that the idea of one neighbor being scum was placed on the backburner and then resurrected with recent votes. that is a huge assumption which you failed to backup with fact. this new statement is blatant weaseling. please show where the "one neighbor scum" theory fell to the weighside and where it was ressurected. that was what you said. please show proof of that. if i remember correctly, a large part of the reason SB was lynched was because of the "one neighbor scum" theory as well. if that's the case then the accusation you are making is entirely false.

So, here's what I recall:
When neighbour first claimed/after DRK lynched, most people thought that a neighbourhood pointed to either none or one scum in it, and weakly to the second of these.

For a long period after this - including SB's lynch - this was barely mentioned, with the exception of ani.

Now, you and Juls vote for me - Juls at least seems to be going by that logic, with "fishy must be scum now". I kind of assumed you were too because it was such an out-of-the-blue vote, but you haven't actually given any reasons.

I may be wrong about some of that. It currently takes me a few minutes to load an MS page, and I don't have time to reread this game. Can you give me any quotes from around SB's lynch that show that anyone apart from ani was going with the one-neighbour-is-scum theory?

Reading you today, it is totally clear that you are interested only in my lynch. Why this sudden certainty?

So, it looks like there's no 3-man scum team.

Given yesterday, I'm not seeing DJ and ani as scum together.

nice omgus.

What on earth did you mean by this? Did you think "oh, I voted for him, he said something, must have been omgus"? Because I didn't actually attack you at all here.

[Fishythefish]

I enjoyed this game. The concept was lovely, but in practise it needs a huge amount of activity to work. I agree that site problems hit this game hard - at one point, I was having to spend about twice as much time as normal on MS just to load posts, and really struggled to keep up. Still, I'd definitely be in if this concept was ever run again.

Many thanks to the mod for running the game attentively, and for the concept.

Well played Juls and farside.

I feel that I came under remarkably little pressure to kill someone or claim further after my claim. TBH, I thought it would buy me a day, and then it would be obvious i wasn't what I claimed to be.