Mini 901: Real Time Mafia (Over)

[don_johnson]

its about to get all pointless and stupid up in here. don't worry, though, i'm town.

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote bigmc

welcome to the jungle.

scummiest:

drk
tonymontana
annachie
mal

[don_johnson]

I agree with bigmc that trying to setup lynches so fast is scummy. And thus, Elli eagerness to lynch is scummy. We don't know for sure the recharge time of the mafia NK, and thus, rushing lynches for the sake of lynching is not good. And Elli has done nothing but support that. Also, the omgusing against bigmc doesn't help either.

who exactly is trying to set up lynches fast? i read the thread and didn't get that impression. elli's posts have been protown.

196 seems like a big waste of space. exactly what is snowbunny doing for us?

snowbunny: would you consider yourself "eager" to lynch Elli? if not, who do you propose as a deadline wagon? or do you think a no lynch or weak wagon is better for town?

annachie: i thought it would be redundant to both vote for bigmc

and

include him on my list. not sure why you would choose to interpret it that way, but whatever.

I'm not so sure Mal is a good candidate for a lynch. His post does come off as a little scummy, but his vote and reasons do not.

bigmc, if it wasn't his vote or his reasons, what about the post "comes off scummy"?

DRK does seem to support the policy of lynching someone as quickly as possible, which is scummy even with the time limit. That being said, I do think we've had adequate discussion today to decide on a lynch.

so... you can think there's been enough discussion, but drk cannot? this just doesn't flow. i agree that drk is most likely scum, but not because he is trying to lynch people.

In my mind, Elli and DRK are the scummiest. It's my interpretation that they're trying to mask the fact that want a lynch ASAP with the week long "deadline". It works to scum's advantage, because as soon as suspicion mounts on anyone, scum can jump in without much fear of being criticized, because "they had to before the deadline expired".

i disagree. without working hard, scum can run misdirection and manipulate the wagons more subtly. the bigger the wagon, the more info for town. players just chiming in because of deadline without previous input should be lynched next. participation is key.

Scum can be a lot more pushy in this game, and I think we should keep our eyes on anyone who pushes a little too much.

in other words, "lets all lurk"?

I still support Elli's lynch over DRK's. Elli seemed a lot more anxious to get CSL out of the way with almost no reason (the policy lynch thing barely counts).

really? elli over drk? the guy with solid and sound reasoning over the selfvoter and joke poster?

drk is looking like a solid lynch.

[don_johnson]

elli started off the game by proposing we put a majority on CSL instantly.

true. but when read in the context of being in a game with real time mechanics, the motivation certainly seemed protown. also, the majority would only matter if town couldn't find a lynch candidate. as i recall the proposal was to create a "back-up" lynch based on policy. a literally interpreted policy lynch is "quick" by nature, so adding the word "quick" to the accusation at all just seems like an attempt to place more suspicion than is warranted on an otherwise harmless suggestion.

i feel that the arguments against drk and elli should have their own life and not be boxed into "quick-lynching", which is an accusation used by scum more often than town.

[don_johnson]

so, in other words, snowbunny, you would rather "no lynch", and let mafia use their nk instead of setting up a deadline lynch?

i need you to clarify this as i am not sure how this could possibly benefit town. and yes, i think elli's actions were protown. securing a deadline lynch is one of town's most important jobs on day 1.

i don't care if you back off of elli. he seems to be able to handle himself just fine. i am questioning you becuase you seem to be playing "misdirection", which is exactly what i would expect scum to do in a game like this.

[don_johnson]

hm. seems i may be a bit off track. i just read the rules and realize what you are saying. sorry snowbunny. i need to reread elli. thing is, i have read CSL and have no problem setting him up as a policy lynch. i still think drk's actions read way scummier than anything elli has produced, but i want to iso him to be sure. snowbunny is off my list.

[don_johnson]

okay. that's L-2 then.

Do you want to clarify?

sure. why wouldn't i.

Read him in this game, read him in others, policy lynch him in general?

this game, others. a CSL bandwagon is a fine way to start any game.

Policy lynch him in this game specifically?

why not?

Policy lynch him right now?

impossible. unless i had seven votes. that's just a stupid question.

but i guess i'll clarify like this:

if i had vig powers and this game had a night start, i would strongly consider vigging CSL.

its day 1. CSL and someone else are dead. CSL is doctor. i come forward and claim vig, taking credit for killing CSL. i explain that i find him unreadable and thought he was a good night 0 vig choice. would you think i was scummy? if so, why?

you seem to be awfully concerned with something that sparked a great deal of conversation and never really happened. in fact, has anyone here ever seen a policy lynch actually go through? i sure haven't. usually discussion occurs and the player in question replaces out, acts scummy and gets lynched for being scummy, or increases their participation and avoids being policy lynched. i am suspicious of all players whining about the idea of policy lynching(except plumegranate, i am pretty sure its plum whose upset at elli, and pomegranate is just going along with it). move on people, the more you discuss it, the less you are scumhunting. snowbunny 221 is a great example of wasting time and space.

conclusions thus far:

flareonage needs to do something better than that.
if another wagon doesn't form in the next twelve hours or so, drk should roleclaim so we have ample time for further discussion if need be.
consider me threatening L-1. don't use a meta appeal. you self voted. horrible play.

[don_johnson]

ebwop: before feelings get hurt, i just want to say that i find both CSL and DRK to be delightful players. i just happen to find players who self vote as town(CSL) to be the most difficult to read, hence making them prime vig/investigation targets. as for DRK, i just like lynching him. seriously, i think this is like three games in a row or something?

[don_johnson]

12 Alive

Snow Bunny ( 1 ) DeathRowKitty
DeathRowKitty ( 6 ) manho TonyMontana Juls Annachie Flareonage don_johnson
bigmc109 ( 0 )
don_johnson ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 3 ) Snow Bunny Plumegranate bigmc109
Flareonage ( 2 ) Bogre Ellibereth
Plumegranate ( 0 )
Juls ( 0 )
Bogre ( 0 )
manho ( 0 )
TonyMontana ( 0 )
Annachie ( 0 )
No Lynch ( 0 )
Total Votes ( 12 )

With 12 alive, 7 needed to lynch.
Next Lynch Available at: January 9th 00:00 EST
Lynch Will Be: No Lynch

drk: i felt your self vote came well after the rvs. the pregame to this seemed more like an rvs than the actual start. i am confused on your stance of policy lynching CSL. if you were gambiting, what did your gambit tell you?

vote: drk

let's get that claim.

[don_johnson]

i think neighbor should be revealed. they serve no purpose but to create wifom. by revealing the nieghbor we leave it up to scum to leave them alive as semi-confirmed. i'd like to know what the neighbor thinks and i'd also like drk to spill whatever info is contained in a quicktopic. if the drk flips town and there's a chance the neighbor is scum, then those reads and opinions could prove invaluable. thoughts?

[don_johnson]

i don't think the neighbour revealing would give us anything valuable. the neighbour has the same probability to be scum as everyone has. unless DRK flip scum, the neighbour will very likely be town. it would be stupid for the 2 neighbour be the same scum team.

exactly. i'd like the nieighbor to claim. if drk flips scum then we have a confirmed townie. with a confirmed townie in the mix that leaves the decision up to the scum team as to whther or not to nk the confirmed townie or try and hit a powerrole. although, i guess in that situation scum would already know who the neighbor is and they could claim tomorrow.

if, however, drk flips town, we need drk to divulge the information in the quicktopic(assuming they have one) so that we are assured of getting genuine information. if drk dies as town, the remaining neighbor can manipulate the info anyway they want. that info could prove priceless in determining the neighbors alignemnt. there is no real benefit to the neighbor not claiming as they are

not confirmed

to be town unless drk flips scum neighbor.

[don_johnson]

^^ interesting.

unvote

thoughts from the neighbors.

drk: what have your friends been talking about?

[don_johnson]

ebwop:

vote: annachie

just realized we have a choice here. do not AT ALL like the fact that pluemgranate is going to be v/la around every single deadline for lynch.

[don_johnson]

i can jive with that.

unvot, vote: snowbunny

If DRK flips town, and taking into account something he said in the QT, I'll be looking after dj.

^^ this is just plain silly. you're telling me that a drk town flip wouldn't make you more suspicious of your other neighbor? seriously?

juls: why not annachie?

[don_johnson]

forgot to bold. juls i'd rather lynch annachie, but i'll move if necessary to sb. they are both acting really scummy. i agree that out of those two we have a likely 50/50 as i believe at this point that drk will flip town.

[don_johnson]

i don't get why you won't seem to work with us on this, juls. drk himself is pointing to the fact that anna seems to be ignoring qt info in order to push his lynch. if its 50/50, why not join the wagon that has a chance? the snowbunny vote just seems so useless here. even if elli and i switch...

[don_johnson]

thanks juls. what does everyone think of plumegranate being gone near every deadline. seems like it might hurt, no?

[don_johnson]

that sucks. personally elli, i think i'd modkill you for ongoing game talk. however, i am not going to blame you for anna's emotional flare up. it could just be a meta manuever. no need for a quicklynch here. we have another seven days now. both snow and anna's replacement need to chime in. a fresh set of eyes on the quicktopic may be extremely helpful.

[don_johnson]

@Don: quick lynches do not exist in this game. Even if SB gets every single persons vote we still go to the 7th day and thus have time to change our minds. However, voting SB to lynch ensures we have a lynch candidate as opposed to no lynching.

yes. same as the policy lynch idea, all i'm saying is we should think a little before we set the lynch. i liked elli's list of scum and i can't make sense out of anything snowbunny is saying, but i'd like our replacement to divulge the QT.

[don_johnson]

vote: bigmc

i love how the scumlist is 3/4 low activity players and 1/4 the days leading suspect. classic.

[don_johnson]

bigmc likes using the phrase "quicklynch". this is a misrepresentation of elli's intentions as far as i can tell and is also the most common accusation made by scum against town in the early goings of any game. there are seven days between lynches. no such thing as a "quicklynch" in this game. if you need proof, everyone vote for bigmc. he won't be lynched no matter how quickly the votes pile on because the power hasn't recharged.

in any case, i don't see any reason to think that either annachieslot or snowbunny are town. i think big shouyld be lynched though.

[don_johnson]

388 is drivel. there is no "quicklynching in this game because we can switch the majority before deadline. why do you assume such a weak town that what elli says is law? its not. elli is one player and the picture you are painting is of him having some unbalanced power than the rest of us so that he fits into your picture of being scummy. his actions weren't scummy. not by a long shot. setting up a policy lynch as a backup is protown. he has one vote, just like the rest of us. acting as though he has more is just convoluted and capricious.

[don_johnson]

@don: your play here is very different from in our recent game, when you were town. This worries me slightly. Comments?

I expect to be able to get entirely to grips with this game about this time tomorrow.

tell me whats different. tell me what worries you. then i can comment.

[don_johnson]

fish: depending on when i replace into a game or if i start it from the beginning really determines how much i "care" about my image. if i replace into a game that is 40 pages in i have no control over how i am viewed and so don't think about it much at all. if it seems like i am "trying" in this game then you are reading me correctly. i am on a five game town win streak and i don't want it to end, unfortunately i may not have any control over that due to my willingness to replace into crappy situations, but that's another story.

i was thinking like juls 400, plumegranate being gone each week at deadline is bad news. also, note there has not been a mafia kill yet. either a protect or roleblock hit home or mafia is in the shadows laughing as town tears itself apart. not sure what to make of that.

[don_johnson]

^^ well, the only reason for sb to reveal her target in thread is for future use. if fish is town then she could reveal it in quicktopic, but then we have to trust fish with that info. more than likely, sb is the next mafia kill. i would rather have the info in this thread before she dies.

now lets lynch bigmc. plumegranate is now my number two target. the v/la is too convenient to ignore.

flareonage and manho could be lurking scum. if there is a vig, kill them please.

fish: any town games i link to would be useless me thinks. most i could refer to(finished) are a bit older and my playstyle undergoes constant metamorphosis. tbh, i feel i have matured quite a bit on this site. meta is useless against me. i have made sure of that.

[don_johnson]

feel free to waste your time.

[don_johnson]

comin down to the wire again. i suggest another vote on bigmac and a claim so we have time to reorganize if necessary.

elli: i am expecting more from you as this game continues.

juls: i hadn't noticed manho. not good. not good at all. plum's v/la doesn't "bother me" as much as i find it terribly inconvenient and could easily see it as a scum tactic to explain deadline absenteeism. obviously this applies to manho as well.

taking the girls to dance lessons. more later.

[don_johnson]

I see you haven't checked to see that I have never ever posted around midnight, or on a Saturday morning (EST), and neither has Plum, EVER. (Yes, this is Pom.) I refuse to listen to any arguments about how 'convenient' this is until after you do.

simmer down, fruit cup. apparently i am no good at clarifying myself. i changed the wording from "convenient" to "inconvenient". as in, "its really 'inconvenient' for all of us that you are v/la around deadline". i haven't seen anything else from you to lean scum so yeah, whatever. i am not "arguing" this anymore.

i'd like bunny's answer as to why.

[don_johnson]

okay. if bigmac flips town, it may be time to dig into Elli.

[don_johnson]

plum, flare, elli, and snowbunny.

at least in this thread. and if its pm.

[don_johnson]

^^ nice and oppurtunistic mr. president.

[don_johnson]

^^ she is right. i also am suspicious of the way elli is avoiding any manho pressure.

vote: manho

its a rough way to make a livin'...

[don_johnson]

fishy/annachie = scum

vote: fishy

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote: flare

time for him to go.

[don_johnson]

9 Alive

Snow Bunny ( 0 )
DeathRowKitty ( 0 )
don_johnson ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 1 ) Flareonage
Flareonage ( 5 ) Snow Bunny Fishythefish manho farside22 don_johnson
Plumegranate ( 0 )
Juls ( 0 )
farside22 ( 0 )
manho ( 2 ) Ellibereth Juls
Fishythefish ( 0 )
No Lynch ( 1 ) Plumegranate
Total Votes ( 9 )

With 9 alive, 5 needed to lynch.
Next Lynch Available at: January 23th 00:01 EST
Lynch Will Be: Flareonage

was i voting manho? i haven't really been paying attention, but flare seems atrocious. of course, i'm not looking much better now, am I?

[don_johnson]

are you calling me an idiot?

unvote, vote: plumegranate

yeah. i think far's on the right track here.

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote snowbunny

its time.

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote snowbunny

its time.

What happened with Plum and why the vote for SB?

its really an either/or for me at this point. i'm just trying to get something going. are we lynching flare first?

[don_johnson]

oh well. that's too bad.

unless you're scum. then its great!

the numbers are dwindling here. i guess we have to hit scum sooner or later, right?

[don_johnson]

oh we'll learn something. i just don't know what yet. anyways, thanks for playing. MS needs more players like you(fun).

[don_johnson]

no. i like you. this has been fun. they don't hate you. they are just jealous of you. too many players here get all stressed out over stuff. i think some people forget this is a "game".

[don_johnson]

^^ brilliantly disguised omgus.

[don_johnson]

^^ brilliantly disguised omgus.

Then explain how those posts help the town.

you posted 11 quotes.

five contain votes. votes provide pressure and a literal trail of suspicions. pro town.

3 contain statements of suspicion of other players. pro town.

3 are conversational. they help foster an ideal of acceptance and enjoyment i would hope pervades these forums for those of us that have fun while playing.

if you have a point. please make it.

[don_johnson]

what is "contrersial"?

[don_johnson]

lack of what? i am thinking you and snowbunny are scum partners.

[don_johnson]

i think its funny how ani and snow are launching omgus campaigns.

[don_johnson]

@dj: if you think ani and SB are partners, why aren't you voting one of them? Why do you think they are partners?

its lylo. i don't think scum would go for a quick lynch with these mechanics, but i see no reason to speed up the process of voting. i could very well be wrong.

[don_johnson]

fish: ani and sb are both omgusing.

ani: what are you contributing that is useful?

[don_johnson]

what is "the change" in my play?

[don_johnson]

where was i scumhunting?

[don_johnson]

sorry farside, but i didn't think it was a mystery that i've lost interest. ani seems to think this is some sort of scumtell. tbh, i would need to reread in order to find a firm list. ani's behavior, though, seems like obvscum at this point. its like if a 700 pound alligator walked into the room. wouldn't you find it odd if he attempted to take credit for "discovering" it? i'll try to get back here before deadline with more analysis, but

vote: animorph

i think its a safe bet.

[don_johnson]

^^ wonderful reason to lynch ani. scum flip means fish is #2. if you guys think sb is town, then this should be a huge red flag.

farside: sorry, but you're just going to have to trust my gut on this one. i have no case and no time to make one. animorph is scum. if not, we lose. if he is, then fish goes next. i am not afraid to lose. i'd rather win, but its not always possible.

[don_johnson]

My vote on you? Are you sure you are reading things right? My vote's on Fishy. I think Dj right now is scummy, but I find Fishy to be top. And,

I hope you got things right after I flip town

, should I ever be lynched.

Also, useful =/= town. Just a note.

do you have reason to believe we are not in lylo? if you flipped town the game would most likely be over.

your case on fish seems omgus. mind spelling it out here?

how am i scummy over Juls? at least i am here.

unvote, vote: Snow Bunny

your just plain ridiculous.

[don_johnson]

it doesn't make you scummy juls. my point was that SB was calling me scummy and giving you a pass. i see no reason she should be any more suspicious of me than she is of you. hence my vote.

[don_johnson]

fish/ani/juls

well done guys.

vote: fish

[don_johnson]

barring a town vig, or nk protect, i think we're dead in the water.

i guess i could interchange you with manho in that list, but i'm solid on farside town and ani/fish scum.

[don_johnson]

So, it looks like there's no 3-man scum team.

Given yesterday, I'm not seeing DJ and ani as scum together.

nice omgus.

To people voting me: the idea that one of the neighbours had to be scum has recently sprung up again. I really can't understand that - noone has expressed that sentiment in a long time, apart from ani.

who recently expressed this? why do you think ani is town?

[don_johnson]

ani: way to go for the sun optimal lynch in lylo. what has manho done for town? if you believe in 1 neighbor scum then you should be lynching the last remaining neighbor. according to your thought process he would be 100% scum.

if there is any buddying between me and juls it is because we have some history on the site.

I thought the votes for me from you and particularly Juls were partly at least based on that. Was I wrong?

you implied that the idea of one neighbor being scum was placed on the backburner and then resurrected with recent votes. that is a huge assumption which you failed to backup with fact. this new statement is blatant weaseling. please show where the "one neighbor scum" theory fell to the weighside and where it was ressurected. that was what you said. please show proof of that. if i remember correctly, a large part of the reason SB was lynched was because of the "one neighbor scum" theory as well. if that's the case then the accusation you are making is entirely false.

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote: animorph

the only thing scummy about juls is the lurkiness of her play.

fishy is most likely scum due to the "one neighbor as scum" theory, i just think he's using that as an excuse to make others look bad. it was something he inferred from juls and my votes, but wasn't really stated, and imo it was never really on the backburner, nor was it "less likely" than the town neighborhood idea. now he doesn't have time to "reread" the thread. that's my bit. ani thinks i'm scum because of my disinterested approach, but hasn't attacked anyone else on this. fish may have given the appearance of scumhunting before, but now, he back's off and gets no flak from ani? i think they are scum partners.

in regards to the buddying: i didn't intentionally "buddy" juls, nor do i feel she "buddied" me. what i was saying is that

if someone thinks they saw some buddying between us

it is most likely because of our history. farside, if you are interested in producing your "notes" i am all ears as i am not 100% sure of town juls, but i think it is our best interest to lynch animorph today. the discrepancy in his logic is telling, and i think he has given up his partner in fishy.

[don_johnson]

Why the switch from fishy to morph?

why not? i think they are both scum and i am willing to lynch either of them.

you see:

Morph do you think fishy is not scum now or that a neighbor isn't scum? Why?

is a good question.

this:

Oh, he probably is. I think DJ is scum more though.

is an incomplete answer. there's no answer to the "why?" part of the question. there is also no real stance on fishy here. if you think fishy is scum(and your earlier logic just about guarantees it) what is the purpose of lynching me first? who else do you think i am paired with and why?

also, i assume that you(ani) are referring to juls as "scumhunting +lurkering". please expound as to when and where juls has been "scumhunting" as opposed to "lurkering".

farside: ani's inability to reconcile his logic has me more sure he is scum. i don't currently see him partnered with anyone but fishy. i could be wrong, i guess, but fish needs to speak up and explain their "town read" on ani. otherwise, i think i have them both pegged.