Mini 901: Real Time Mafia (Over)

[bigmc109]

/confirm

Elli, what has CSL done that's so anti-town? Don't give me a link and make me read an entire game when you could just explain it in 2 sentences.

I don't think a policy lynch is a good idea here anyway, especially not at the rate this game is going to be going. The goal isn't to lynch as many people as possible, it's to lynch scum as quickly as possible. It seems like Elli is trying to go for a quick and easy lynch with the "policy lynch" argument to fall back on if (or maybe, in Elli's mind,

when

) CSL flips town. I also don't like his whole "I represent the opinions of everyone" attitude.

But I'd still like to know from Elli or DRK why CSL is such a good policy lynch.

[bigmc109]

The following are links to specific posts:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 77#2017577
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 88#1894988
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 74#1921474
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 06#1823806
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 83#1876483
I know of at least one more in an ongoing game.

A statistic complied on Dec 9, he has been lynched 44% of the time on D1 or the day where he replaces in.

You want to lynch him so he doesn't lynch himself? That's the only thing you linked to, so I assume that's the extent of his anti-town play. He seems fine in this game so far. If he's town, we lose him either way, and if he's scum, why is self-voting such a problem? I understand how it's anti-town, but I think it could work in our favor. Why not just give him a chance to play?

And yes, I'm aware doing this brings information. I'm just saying don't put a majority on him right away.

[bigmc109]

Vote: Elli

I see how there could be a pro-town reason for his push, but that's incredibly WIFOM-heavy. I think it was blatantly scummy, and just because it was obvious doesn't mean it should be ignored.

[bigmc109]

Vote: Elli

I see how there could be a pro-town reason for his push, but that's incredibly WIFOM-heavy. I think it was blatantly scummy, and just because it was obvious doesn't mean it should be ignored.

A) Where's the Wifom?
B) I understand if you

disagree

with the concept of a policy, but calling it "blatantly scummy is ridiculous.

A. I meant that just because it appears blatantly scummy doesn't mean you should think "it's too scummy to be scummy".
B. I think the fact that you immediately went for it and pushed nothing but it is scummy.

[bigmc109]

Wow, sorry mod & everyone, I really thought I posted last night. Oh well.

I'm not so sure Mal is a good candidate for a lynch. His post does come off as a little scummy, but his vote and reasons do not. DRK does seem to support the policy of lynching someone as quickly as possible, which is scummy even with the time limit. That being said, I do think we've had adequate discussion today to decide on a lynch. In my mind, Elli and DRK are the scummiest. It's my interpretation that they're trying to mask the fact that want a lynch ASAP with the week long "deadline". It works to scum's advantage, because as soon as suspicion mounts on anyone, scum can jump in without much fear of being criticized, because "they had to before the deadline expired". Scum can be a lot more pushy in this game, and I think we should keep our eyes on anyone who pushes a little too much.

I still support Elli's lynch over DRK's. Elli seemed a lot more anxious to get CSL out of the way with almost no reason (the policy lynch thing barely counts).

[bigmc109]

I'm not so sure Mal is a good candidate for a lynch. His post does come off as a little scummy, but his vote and reasons do not.

His post was extremely scummy. His reasoning was BS.

DRK does seem to support the policy of lynching someone as quickly as possible, which is scummy even with the time limit.

I'm not going to argue theory here. Whether policay lynches are good or not is a theory question.

That being said, I do think we've had adequate discussion today to decide on a lynch.

Orly? With some people having almost no posts.

In my mind, Elli and DRK are the scummiest. It's my interpretation that they're trying to mask the fact that want a lynch ASAP with the week long "deadline".

A lynch only occurs every 7 days. I want a lynch every 7 days.

It works to scum's advantage, because as soon as suspicion mounts on anyone, scum can jump in without much fear of being criticized, because "they had to before the deadline expired".

That's BS.

Scum can be a lot more pushy in this game, and I think we should keep our eyes on anyone who pushes a little too much.

See above

I still support Elli's lynch over DRK's. Elli seemed a lot more anxious to get CSL out of the way with almost no reason (the policy lynch thing barely counts).

Just because you're too lazy to see how crappy CSL's playstyle is does not mean he's not a good policy the lynch. THE POLICY LYNCH WAS THE WHOLE REASON.

How was his reasoning BS? DRK's play

does

reflect the playstyle of someone trying to lynch someone very quickly. As for the last part of his post, yes it comes off as somewhat scummy, but considering it's his only post, it can seem like he's an over-zealous townie. Null read.

On that point, if Mal turns out to be a major lurker, it's going to look a lot worse. But as I said, at this point, I have a null read on him.

Considering the wagons that are building up, it seems like a lot of people are ready for a lynch. This indicates to me that D1 has had enough discussion to constitute a lynch. Does this mean I support hanging someone right now and ceasing discussion? Of course not. I am just saying a lot of people, myself included, have their minds made up. Not to the point that they're unchangeable, just to the point where we would be happy with x getting lynched.

Lurking is unavoidable in this game. You seem to be saying we should wait until everyone participates to make a lynch, while at the same time saying we must lynch every 7 days. I think we all know this game will have lurking, so you're gonna have to make a choice there.

As far as you calling those few sentences BS goes....care to explain?

If CSL's playstyle is so crappy, he'd have hung before he was replaced. You and DRK seem to be among the very few who think his policy lynch was a good idea, and I think you're hiding scummy intentions behind the words "policy lynch".

[bigmc109]

I know, my point was that I didn't think we should rush to a majority just so we have someone set-up.

[bigmc109]

@DJ: What good reasoning? Saying CSL should be lynched because he plays anti-town in some games is NOT good reasoning. It's reasoning which will more likely than not lose a pro-town player with no info coming from it.

As for Mal, the part of his first post that came off as a bit scummy was the last part where he says he wants a hammer, not a claim. You know....the one part you didn't list....
[quote=DJ]bigmc, if it wasn't his vote or his reasons, what about the post "comes off scummy"?[/quote]

When did i even remotely indicate "let's all lurk"? I said we should keep our eye on those who are too pushy. In no world does that even come close to "let's all lurk".

[bigmc109]

VOTE: Don_Johnson

There's no unvoting and I see no reason to lynch drk

If you've actually read the topic, you would see there is a lot of reason to lynch DRK. He started off the game anxious for a lynch and has really offered no reason for us to believe he's town despite being at L-1 (he is at L-1, right?). Also....this is kind of gut, but his play in this game does not at all match his play as town in the game I played with him.

It almost sounds like Flareonage is defending a scum buddy. If DRK flips scum I think I know where to look next.

[bigmc109]

V/LA

until Tuesday, sorry for the lack of posting yesterday and today, something came up very fast.

[bigmc109]

11 Alive

Snow Bunny ( 6 ) Juls Ellibereth Flareonage farside22 Plumegranate TonyMontana
DeathRowKitty ( 0 )
bigmc109 ( 1 ) Fishythefish
don_johnson ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
Flareonage ( 1 ) Snow Bunny
Plumegranate ( 0 )
Juls ( 0 )
farside22 ( 0 )
manho ( 0 )
TonyMontana ( 0 )
Fishythefish ( 0 )
No Lynch ( 3 ) manho don_johnson bigmc109
Total Votes ( 11 )

With 11 alive, 6 needed to lynch.
Next Lynch Available at: January 16th 00:01 EST
Lynch Will Be: Snow Bunny

Caught a break. I'm sick, so I'm not busy anymore.

Though I want an Elli wagon, I will switch to DRK if needed.

Btw, Elli, yet another wagon just like that? It seems like you are going for "weak" targets. It's a shame you are looked "pro-town" by a few other players. :-/

Hm....setting up lynches while protecting oneself....

Both DRK and Elli were suspicious. Why then wouldn't I want either of them lynched? You are trying to imply my vote came out of nowhere. I might not have made a case against either of them, but that doesn't change the fact that I thought both of them were scum (Elli's still there). And, as I also said, DRK said something in the QT that pushed him on top Elli.

Elli's still scummy, but so is Flare.

When a lynch is every 7 days or so, you can't expect each lynchee to have a strong case (specially on D1) before dying. I don't see why you call it policy lynching, as I gave my reasons. :-/

Combined with a horrible, horrible defense. If you find someone suspicious, you have a case against them. If you "gave your reasons", then you have a case against them. In fact, I believe you did have a csae against them, that case being the same as my case. Though the fact that you say you didn't....I don't know, it has me confused.

@Flare: Stop acting like a sheep. You have done nothing but following wagons without adding anything new, and not even worrying about finding something about other players.

I will say that SB has a point here. Flareonage has yet to really contribute anything of value to the game. Having said that, it could also be scum-SB pointing fingers at the newbie for doing newbie things. I'm thinking these two almost definitely have opposite alignments.

I'm not so convinced SB is scum as everyone else is. I personally think we need to take a step back and look at the lurkers (btw, I was a bit peeved when I saw Plume list me as a lurker, but holy crap were they right about my low post count. I'll try to fix that in the future).

Scum list (no particular order):

Flareonage (lack of contribution)
TonyMontana (lack of contribution/lurking)
manho (lack of contribution/lurking/not paying attention)
SnowBunny (lots of contradictions between posts, most of which others have pointed out)

[bigmc109]

And wow, Elli is also on my scum list. Don't know how I forgot him.

[bigmc109]

In a game like this, lurking is something to look out for. While I've been guilty of it myself, there is no reason to let people fade into the background. That said, the fact that there has yet to be a night kill could mean our pace could be slowed a bit so we can get some more discussion in. As for the top suspect, there is a reason she is the top suspect, and I happen to see it too. I just don't think it's as scummy as Elli or the lurkers at this point. Oh yeah....way to leave off the last fifth from your voting reasons.

If you guys want to keep pushing on SnowBunny that's fine, but I'm still going to

Vote: Elli

. I'll be damned if a townie tried that hard to get a quick lynch and cover it up as policy.

[bigmc109]

DRK stated several times that he was "just joking around" (which, more or less, turned out to be true because of his town flip). Elli, however, was clearly not joking around, and legitimately wanted CSL lynched. His proposed policy of having a backup lynch "just in case" was (or is, I'm not sure if he dropped it or not) clearly scummy, because he wanted CSL as a back-up with no discussion. The more quickly we reach majorities, the better it is for scum, because we have so much less info to go on. Elli's play started off incredibly scummy, and just because he's corrected it somewhat does not mean he's necessarily town. I think he's most likely scum trying to act as pro-town as possible.

[bigmc109]

bigmc likes using the phrase "quicklynch". this is a misrepresentation of elli's intentions as far as i can tell and is also the most common accusation made by scum against town in the early goings of any game. there are seven days between lynches. no such thing as a "quicklynch" in this game. if you need proof, everyone vote for bigmc. he won't be lynched no matter how quickly the votes pile on because the power hasn't recharged.

Trying to get a majority on a player as quickly as possible is this game's equivalent of quick lynching. If we did have CSL as a backup, it is likely that he would be the lynchee. Especially if people decided to lynch him for the reasons Elli gave, because no matter how pro-town or anti-town CSL may have played, Elli's arguments against him would still be valid. There was absolutely no way to refute Elli's points without a theory discussion, making Elli going after CSL a pretty good example of scum trying to start a quick bandwagon.

[bigmc109]

If we did what Elli said, it would be very hard to find an alternate lynch, and we would more than likely fall back on the default. And setting up a policy lynch is in no way pro-town. What that does is ensure for Elli that if he and his buddies are unable to build up a legitimate case in 7 days, there is a default townie that is guaranteed to go anyway. And if and when CSL flipped townie, Elli wouldn't even be attacked very much for it, because he could simply claim that it was a policy lynch. And while people like me would attack him, people like you wouldn't even give it a second thought because it doesn't fit in to your picture of being scummy.

[bigmc109]

If we did what Elli said, it would be very hard to find an alternate lynch, and we would more than likely fall back on the default. And setting up a policy lynch is in no way pro-town. What that does is ensure for Elli that if he and his buddies are unable to build up a legitimate case in 7 days, there is a default townie that is guaranteed to go anyway. And if and when CSL flipped townie, Elli wouldn't even be attacked very much for it, because he could simply claim that it was a policy lynch. And while people like me would attack him, people like you wouldn't even give it a second thought because it doesn't fit in to your picture of being scummy.

Did anyone really follow Eli's logic except for DKR?

No. My point is that that was probably the process of Elli's thoughts. Whether or not it happened is irrelevant; it's the intent that matters.

[bigmc109]

WIFOM or not, I think it makes sense. There is no other reason to support a policy lynch so strongly, and considering no one else did except DRK, who explained he was joking, or, according to SB, as part of some bigger strategy, it makes Elli look like he was trying to set-up an easy lynch. Yes, I'm assuming he's scum. Yes, I'm going off of something that only lasted for awhile quite a long time ago. That makes my argument WIFOM-y by nature. It doesn't change the fact that I can't see a pro-town player pushing so hard for a lynch with no in-game arguments.

[bigmc109]

It is

not

pro-town to have a policy lynch as a backup lynch. CSL did nothing scummy, and I would argue that at the time, DRK was the scummiest looking player. If Elli's backup lynch plan had been based on scumminess in the this game, then yes, it would have been pro-town. But if he's basing it on policy lynching and behavior in other games, it is at best anti-town, because it could potentially lose us a townie. It is hard for me to believe that in the span of 7 days two majorities could be separately reached. I think Elli realized this and was trying to set-up an easy lynch.

[bigmc109]

What did you find that's interesting? SB, you seem to have a pattern of saying you know things, and then not share them with us. Unless I read your last post incorrectly...

[bigmc109]

I'm here, very busy day. Will post content tomorrow.

[bigmc109]

As far as a claim, I am VT. The deadline is only about 14 hours away, so I doubt the majority will come off of me. Flare is really, really looking like scum at this point. Almost more than Elli, maybe even equal. Flare has been wagon jumping the entire game with very little reason, and while it seemed like newb-town at first, it's starting to look a lot like people pleasing scum. I stand by my stance on Elli. He is scum, and when I flip town tomorrow, I suggest everyone go after him immediately. With the exception of the decreased length of time, his play matches mine EXACTLY from everytime I was scum. And notice the late jump on my wagon despite showing no real interest in me before.

Go town.

[bigmc109]

I guess I had kind of a math fail last night when I said 14 hours....

Unvote, Vote: Flare

Elli obviously isn't going anywhere today, so I guess I'll go with #2.

[bigmc109]

At the expense of another possibly incorrect calculation, I believe the deadline is in 14 hours. The majority almost definitely will not come off of me, so it really doesn't matter how I vote.