Mini 878: Nouns Mafia - Da game is ovah!

[elvis_knits]

I compiled a lot of VC's from D1 starting on page 6. The only ones that are missing after that are if there was no movement in votes.

I could just kick myself for how many times we had 3-4 towns voting boxman and didn't manage to lynch him. Just goes to show you that BWCS is great unless your other choice is lynching scum.

I am still looking at that final VC, and am still slightly uncomfortable with accepting that the entire Netowagon could have been town (except boxman). Circumstances of BWCS could have made that happen, I guess. It still bothers me though because the ones left, ML and Iecerint were pushing Neto all day. Neither ever voted Boxman. I don't think both could be scum, but possibly one. Of the two, I'd lean Iecerint because a namecop is sort of a scummy ability.

SC did vote boxman early, and I think that suggests he is not a boxman buddy. But since his overall play is scummy, I think he has a very good chance of being the SK.

Percy is a worry to me too though because I don't like a bus driver in a game with a redirector.

Vote Count Sex

Netopalis

: 3 (

SensFan

, Iecerint,

Boxman

)

Boxman

: 3 (

mathcam, Seol

, StrangerCoug)

Sens Fan

: 3 (Konowa,

elvis_knits, Netopalis

)

Not Voting: (MacavityLock,

Parhelic

, Percy)

Vote Count 7

Netopalis

: 4 (Konowa,

SensFan

, Iecerint,

Boxman

)

Boxman

: 4 (

elvis_knits, mathcam, Seol

, StrangerCoug)

Sens Fan

: 1 (

Netopalis

)

Not Voting: (MacavityLock,

Parhelic

, Percy)

Vote Count Eight

Netopalis

: 4 (Konowa,

SensFan

, Iecerint,

Boxman

)

Boxman

: 3 (

elvis_knits, Seol

, StrangerCoug)

Sens Fan

: 2 (

mathcam, Netopalis

)

Not Voting: (MacavityLock,

Parhelic

, Percy)

Vote Count 11 (Two hours too late for 11/11)

Netopalis:

4 (Konowa,

SensFan

, Iecerint,

Boxman

)

Boxman

: 4 (

mathcam

,

elvis_knits, Seol,

StrangerCoug)

Sens Fan

: 1 (

Netopalis

)

Not Voting: (MacavityLock,

Parhelic

, Percy)

Vote Count Tweleven

Boxman

: 5 (Konowa,

Netopalis, mathcam, elvis_knits, Seol

)

Netopalis

: 4 (StrangerCoug,

SensFan

, Iecerint,

Boxman

)

Not Voting: (

big_kahunia

, MacavityLock, Percy)

Vote Count 12

Boxman

: 5 (Konowa,

Netopalis, mathcam, elvis_knits, Seol)

Netopalis

: 4 (StrangerCoug,

SensFan

, Iecerint,

Boxman

)

Not Voting: (

big_kahunia

, MacavityLock, Percy)

Vote Count One-Three

Netopalis

: 5 (MacavityLock, StrangerCoug,

SensFan

, Iecerint,

Boxman

)

Boxman

: 5 (Konowa,

Netopalis, mathcam, elvis_knits, Seol)

Iecerint: 1 (Percy)

Not Voting: (

big_kahunia

)

Vote Count Quatorze

Boxman:

6 (StrangerCoug, Konowa,

Netopalis, mathcam, elvis_knits, Seol)

Netopalis:

4 (MacavityLock,

SensFan

, Iecerint,

Boxman

)
Iecerint: 1 (Percy)

Not Voting: (

big_kahunia

)

Final Vote Count: Day 1

Netopalis:

7 (

mathcam, elvis_knits, Seol,

MacavityLock,

SensFan

, Iecerint,

Boxman

)

Boxman

: 3 (StrangerCoug, Konowa,

Netopalis

)
Iecerint: 1 (Percy)

Not Voting: (

big_kahunia

)

[elvis_knits]

I need Percy to convince me that having a redirector and a bus driver in the same game is possible/likely.

I need Iecerint to explain how we had two roleblocks in 1 night. (I've speculated some but I want to hear what he thinks).

[elvis_knits]

Okay, I asked the mod what is the resolution order for night actions. And more specifically, which will resolve first, a RB or a redirect.

[elvis_knits]

Please, no voting yet. It seems like you guys are ready to vote, but I am not. and I think we have more to discuss. Specifically, WTF I am supposed to do with my redirect!

So the order of actions says block goes before redirect. So unless we lynch the blocker, we are toast, correct?

Percy does make the most sense as the RBer since he mentioned the 2-shot thing about his role, and being able to do two in one night. (I do think that it is often easier to fake claim if you keep as much the same as possible, so this could be what happened with Percy). Also, just flavor-wise, I think alcohol is much more likely to be a RBer than a busdriver. I mean, alcohol can knock you out and prevent you from doing your job. Alcohol and busdriving? Drunk driving is bad, kids! (Not that we should rely on flavor, but this doesn't make sense to me).

So if we think the other scum are SC as SK, and Konowa/Budja, then I guess I redirect SC to Budja tonight? Because if SC is NK immune, directing Budja to SC will do nothing.

One tidbit that is sort of WIFOM... Budja read Day1 and skimmed Day2 overnight. When I replace into games I wait to see if I die overnight before reading. Unless, for example, I was a scum who didn't fear being targetted because I knew the vig was being blocked and the SK would be pointed at the vig. Is this fair, or is this too WIFOM?

But, if Percy is scumRB, and he didn't switch me and spyrex, then that means that either both scum decided to kill spyrex (coincidence), or spyrex became a lightning rod (which, is just speculation).

[elvis_knits]

As usual, I begin my morning of multi-posting.

Things I am thinking about now:

1) I AM suspicious of Iecerint. A namecop is a scum power usually.

2) I want to look back at the way Iecerint claimed that he was RBed. I posted in thread that I was asking, so I am just wondering if the mod would tell the scum that he was going to tell me. And perhaps that's why Iecerint claimed RB, to get out in front of me when I claimed RB. He had already claimed this really confusing thing about getting no info on me last night, and if he thought I was going to say I was RBed, maybe he figured he had to also or else look really suspect? I will go into this later, as this is an odd point, and brings up a lot of scenarios in my head.

3) I'm still looking at the Netopalis wagon. Boxmanscum was on the wagon. But no other scum unless Iecerint or ML is scum. ML is the person I am most confident is town at this point. So I see a very real possibility that Iecerint could have been pushing the Net wagon to save his buddy boxman.

HOWEVER, still suspicious of Percy for reasons mentioned yesterday, so he's not off the hook either.

I guess they could both be scum together, but I wonder if one of THEM isn't the SK. Percy has been going after Iecerint since the beginning of the game, which suggests they probably aren't scum together unless they did some masterful bussing (and I do not mean bus driving here!).

Percy's suggestion that we do some old-fashioned scum hunting is a good idea too. A lot of the claims stuff might be WIFOM, so I think we have to add in a bit more scum hunting at this point to bolster our decision.

[elvis_knits]

@elvis: Your observation about "Stethoscope" being a VT role is spot on, and I think it's even more likely that the namecop is a scum role.

My "can use more than one shot in a night" power is quite neat, and note that I included this detail

before

Iec claimed. I think the cleanest explanation for two roleblocks is that there weren't, and that Iec has claimed that he was RBed to throw doubt on my claim.

Okay, so let's look how this all went down. There was some speculation about RB or bulletproof or NKimmunity, etc. Finally, I just decided to ask the mod. I actually didn't think he would tell me, but I figured it was worth a shot. Here's the progression:

I have asked the mod if he can tell me if I was RBed. Some mods do notify players, so I just want to make sure. If he will tell me, I will tell the rest of you.

I am A Mostly Empty Bottle of Jack Daniels, a two-shot bus driver. Last night I switched SpyreX and elvis_knits, and I've still got one use. I actually could have used both of my shots in one night, but I chose to do nothing N1 and keep one for N3.

If elvis was blocked, it was because someone tried to block SpyreX. If the scum were concerned that SpyreX would get more powers, they may have tried to block him while killing the vig. Either that, or there is no RB and SC is in fact unNKable.

I am Randall Kennedy, author of the 2003 book [removed]: The Strange Career of a Troubling Word, Cop. When I investigate someone, I learn their noun and alignment.

N1 I investigated ML because I thought he was active enough to draw conclusions if he was scum, but inactive enough that it would be hard to get a conclusive read on him otherwise. I learned that his noun was "Picasso's Guernica" and that he was town. My results indicated specifically that he was town rather than that he was "Innocent," so I think this clears him of both the SK and mafia roles.

N2 I investigated SX because I thought he was scummy enough to survive N2 and he was a major suspect of mine given Seol's flip (i.e. hypothetical SCSX and SeolPercy scumteams I mentioned yesterday). I think we could have lynched SC yesterday had he not interfered. It also seemed like elvis would be unlikely to go along with a SX lynch if I didn't have a Cop result on him. I was told that I was not able to investigate SX.

This could reflect that he was NKed, that he was un-investigateable, or that I was RB'd. I asked the Mod about this at the start of D2, but have received no response.

I am inclined to believe it was because SX was NK'd.

(Bolding mine)

Okay. The day had only been going on for like 30 hours, so it is possible that Iecerint sent a PM and hadn't heard back yet, and when drake got around to answering Iecerint, he also answered me at the same time.

BUT, it looks like Iecerint doesn't think he will get an answer, and that he doesn't believe he was RBed.

He makes very little comment about a possible RB on me although I mention it in my first post of the day, and other comment on it.

I'm not sure what this means. I think it could mean he is scum who thought the RB was on SpyreX, so knew I wasn't supposed to have been blocked. It could also mean that he just thought his investigation on spyrex didn't go through because spyrex died, and my kill didn't go through because SC is NK immune.

I don't know. But it says he specifically asked the mod about a RB at the beginning of the day, so the fact that he doesn't seem to think or talk about it is a little odd.

Here's a thought --

If Percy is telling the truth, that means that I was actually "unable to investigate" elvis last night. SX's NK couldn't explain that. So I was roleblocked, EK cannot be investigated, or Percy is lying.

ALERT: I have just been informed via PM that I was roleblocked N2. My N2 result is now independent of Percy's alleged bus-drive, so EK's investigativity is no longer in question. This probably also means that EK was not roleblocked, unless the scum have 2 roleblockers or something. (I imagine that EK will be able to let us know about this.) This means that SC is most likely bulletproof.

So Iecerint claims to have been RBed last night. I'd be interested in hearing from elvis whether she was RBed or not (because if the mod told Iec, the mod should also be able to tell elvis), as the question of SC's role hinges on this, and Iec's as well.

Interesting that Percy's first reaction on hearing Iecerint was RBed is to wait to see if I was RBed also.

I think normally a person would assume I was not RBed if they thought Iecerint was RBed.

Unless he thought Iecerint was lying scum already, or knew that there had been two blocks.

OMG...

I haven't read through all the posts made last night yet... quick skim says Iecerint is claiming to be RBed.

But the Mod has informed me that:

I WAS ROLEBLOCKED.

WTF does this mean?

Basically, my findings speak to some suspicious areas for both Iecerint and Percy.

[elvis_knits]

I agree you are unlikely to be scum with Percy and if you are scum, I expect that you are a mafia noun cop (or some such title) and not the roleblocker. If you are scum, I expect that you could not use your power last night -- since you would have had to do the killing with your buddy doing the blocking.

All in all, even though I am unsure about you, I agree that you are not at all likely to be the RBer, and thus should not be lynched today.

[elvis_knits]

Iecerint, I can confirm that my PM notification of RB was about 9-10 minutes before you posted your alert. I was toying with the idea that a scum could have asked the mod if players are notified of RB's, and that he answered you at the same time. Overall though, I think it does support that you received a PM similar to mine and were also RBed. My reasoning below:

I've been thinking this thorugh trying to see how things would have gone down if you're scum, and I've decided it doesn't make a lot of sense.

I keep getting stuck on wondering why a scumIecerint would claim to have investigated Spyrex, after Percy had claimed to have busdriven Spyrex and me. I mean, he's putting himself in a hornets nest of complications (Look at the 5-step process for explaining how his night actions went down and how he figured everything out).

Seriously, why would he claim his second investigation was spyrex, bus driven to me, but oh yeah, blocked. And a second block in one night.

Everyone had claimed before him (except macavity), so he could have totally made up a second night result. He knew everyone's nouns already. He could have claimed a guilty on someone. He could have easily avoided all this crap.

If he's scum, claiming to be a part of the screwy busdriven/blocked/Nked actions last night is literally the most complicated route he could have gone. I would have stayed the hells away from it if I was scum.

I'm thinking it is more likely that Percy is the scum trying to discredit the cop. Things are SO much less complicated that way. Every scenario where Iecerint is scum is very complicated and relies on a number of odd and complicated choices made by Iecerint.

[elvis_knits]

I feel like the more I talk here, the more I confuse myself :/

I'm feeling overwhelmed.

ML, help me. I don't think you're scum.

[elvis_knits]

Claims:

elvis - Mega Man - Vig
SC - Kevlar - BP
Budja - Ten-Pin Bowling Ball - VT
Percy - Mostly Empty Bottle of Jack Daniels - 2-shot Bus Driver
Iecerint - Randall Kennedy, author of the 2003 book [removed]: The Strange Career of a Troubling Word - cop
ML - Picasso's Guernica - VT

[elvis_knits]

Complete speculation:

SC is the SK who lied about his rolename and role.

Percy and Budja are the mafia who told the truth about their rolenames but not their roles. Percy is the RB, alcohol sounds like a RB. Budja made the kill last night. Ten-pin bowling ball? Kill flavor was "head dented in."

[elvis_knits]

2) If Percy is lying about his busdrive ability, his opposite scum faction is aware that he is lying. (If Percy is lying, then both factions targeted SpyreX with their respective kills last night.)

Which may account for SC being gung-ho for killing Percy ASAP.

[elvis_knits]

SC should really just claim SK and tell us who he targetted last night. That could confirm Percy scum.

[elvis_knits]

I thought there are some kinds of candlesticks (maybe old-fashioned) where they have a sharp thing like a nail that sticks up, into the candle to hold it in place. Did I dream this or has anyone else heard of it?

[elvis_knits]

You've got me going with a lot of that, Percy. However, I noticed something odd.

I don't think you should be lynched. I think you're the mafia nouncop, and so you're scum with either SC or Budja. Konowa's absence may colour this read of mine, but looking at you in ISO I find it much more likely that you're scum with Budja. Budja's attempt to downplay the existence of a mafia RB lends to this interpretation as well. Right now, I think Budja should be lynched. I think that Iecerint and SC will have no choice but to kill each other tonight, and if they don't, then we can lynch the survivors the next day. If SC is in fact BP SK, then he'll survive the night but we can lynch him tomorrow.

Why are you not factoring in my redirect, or more importantly, your own bus drive?

Night actions are a huge part of the plan at this point, but you're just going to hope the scum shoot each other?

Fact that you're not thinking about even your own night action makes me wonder if you really have the night action you've claimed.

[elvis_knits]

I'm going back and reading stuff about boxman, and everyone's opinions on him.

I'm not sure what it all means. I'm not sure it will yield anything definitively.

Percy's ISO5 seems important because it calls Konowa town for his treatment of boxman/netopalis. (By this time it was actually pretty late D1 and Konowa had switched to voting boxman). Percy attacks the people voting Net, specifically Iecerint, and says the Net wagon sucks. Which is all good, but he still fails to vote boxman. And the way he is calling Konowa town is sort of suspicious. Yeah Konowa had changed his vote to boxman, but he had been voting Net for a long time and stoking the fires of nethate for a long long time, and Percy fails to mention it.

Percy, can you tell me why you never vote boxman, and preferred to vote Iecerint?

Can you explain this town read on Konowa? It seems like you ignore all of Konowa's many attacks on Net, and just pick on the one part where he switches to voting boxman. I think the main problem you had on Iecerint had to do with him pushing Net, and Konowa was doing the same thing for much of the day. So, please explain why you didn't mention this about Konowa.

(This is not to say that Percy had the only suspicious points when it came to boxman. Iecerint pushed Net all day, and yes, it was suspicious. I'm still trying to figure out who seemed most suspicious when it came to boxman, and I think I will have to read everyone's ISOs and pull quotes. I'll try not to be long-winded though).

[elvis_knits]

A successful use of my power (whatever it is, be it vig or redirect) results in the my current powers being traded for my target's powers.

So my vig was traded for BM's powers which were 1)Fill with tiny hole (kill) and 2)Redirect.

Last night I tried to use fill with tiny holes, but was blocked. I have now lost that ability. But I still can use the redirect, because my powers have not been replaced.

If I successfully redirect someone, I will gain that player's powers.

So like if I am able to redirect the SK, I will gain his arson ability (kill) and anything else if he has it. Percy seems to think an SK could be able to block. I doubt it. BUT, if that's part of the SK's deal, I will get it too. So in a way, it's sort investigative, in that I will be able to tell you exactly what a certain player's night powers are (if I am not blocked, and am still alive). I do not take on passive abilities though... like if the SK is NK immune, I won't get that. I can only take on active abilities, like ones that require a night choice.

[elvis_knits]

Well, N1 scum don't know what power roles are out there. If there is a watcher or tracker, they don't want a scum who isn't suspected to go out and do the kill. Boxman was the best choice to go out and do the kill since he was already exposed.

If there's a goon on the mafia team, but he was not suspected, I don't know if they would risk his exposure to save boxman to use his redirect. I mean, maybe they would. But I don't think it's a sure thing. They might have chose to send boxman just because that protects the other members.

[elvis_knits]

Well, I think the odds are probably in your favor, but we can't be sure.

What do you think this means about the double-RB last night?

[elvis_knits]

It's all so confusing and I'm finding it hard to be completely convinced about anything.

But I think lynching Percy is really the right thing to do. I'm not sure how much more sure I will ever become though. I'm starting to think we just have to take our best shot at this and hope we're right.

[elvis_knits]

Well, if they don't both shoot, they are handing the win to the other team.

[elvis_knits]

OK, this will probably be my last post before the 21st, and I fully expect to be dead. I really did try with my fakeclaim to weed out the scum, and I think I've got the scumteam for you all.

See, I am the serial killer. My noun is as I claimed. I started the game with six shots, not two. With a shot I can either kill a player (douse them with my alcohol and set them on fire), or I can roleblock a player (make them drink it so they fall asleep). I

can

roleblock on the same night I kill, but I

can't

roleblock more than once per night.

This claim makes sense to me. I was thinking (but forgot to post, I think) that alcohol could be an accelerant, and therefore be the arsonist.

Last night I blocked elvis. She was making noise about possibly vigging me, and I couldn't have that. I burned SpyreX because he was onto me. I've got two shots left, as last night was the first time I used my RB.

You clarify your other post you started the game with 5 shots, not six like you say above.

I'm having a little problem with this error, since the number of shots you have left makes a big difference in what you can and cannot do. You say that with one shot left you'll be nk immune.

That means the mafia killed SpyreX too, and either there is a mafia RB that hit Iecerint, or he's lying scum. I'm inclined to go with the latter, as I've said before - pro-town rolecop in this game makes little sense.

I'm wondering why the mafia would kill spyrex. Did they think he was the SK?

The mafia would not put a block on Iecerint and kill spyrex when I'm there as a vig. Even if they didn't think I would hit them (meaning SC and Percy are both not mafia), they should want me dead or blocked since I will gain other abilities and still potentially be harmful to them.

This doesn't make sense to me. You're saying you blocked me and put a kill on spyrex, and the mafia put a kill on spyrex too, and they may or may not have blocked Iecerint.

Well, unless they were just hoping they would kill the SK, I would hit town, and the SK would hit me (or another town). That would make them win I think? I guess you're saying they were just going for max death overnight. I dunno, I guess it's possible.

Now when I claimed bus driver, I knew that the scum would immediately know I was lying and that I would be mincemeat. Luckily for me, a kill attempt means I lose a shot rather than die, so I was hoping to draw the scum NK tonight. I'm currently at 2 shots remaining, so I'm going to be unNKable unless I use them both tonight.

If you lynch me today, the scum may very well block elvis and kill a townie. Game over, scum win. I don't like this scenario.

So here's the deal. I will kill one player and block another of the town's choice. That will leave me open to vigging/mafia NKing (as I will be an Empty bottle after that), so I'll probably be dead tomorrow. If I'm still around, you can lynch me. At the very least, I'm going to try and kill mafia tonight.

Why are you trying to help the town?

How do we know you will do what we tell you to do?

I don't like Budja's play, SC's play and claim, Iecerint's play and claim, and ML's play has started to smell a little overeager to lynch me. I think this may very well point to the fact that I tipped my hand as SK to the scum with my fakeclaim, but I can't be sure. This scenario makes the most sense to me with Iecerint being naive/targetted a godfather, and Budja as the RBer. I put a lot of pressure on Iec, and he's reading null to me (all things considered), so I'm guessing he's either naive or there's a GF, something to make this town not insanely powered.

So my theory right now is Budja as scum with either ML or SC. The only thing ML has going for him is Iec's claim, and I'm not sold on that result's sanity.

Lynch me and we all lose except the scum. I think the fact that I haven't been quicklynched by the scum points very strongly to Budja-scum. He's my pick for lynching today.

Even if Budja is scum, you're saying you're scum too, so there's only one other scum out there. Isn't it 4 to lynch? They still need two townies voting for you to lynch you.

@elvis: The post that started the Boxman wagon was a really weak tell. I thought Iecerint's pushing of the wagon was far more compelling.

I have been wondering if Iecerint is scum with a nouncop ability he can use during the day (scum rolecops work during the day sometimes). If he found out Net was "stethoscope" on day 1, he would obviously want Net dead really really badly.

As for Konowa, it was very vibey - I thought he was playing in a careful and sensible fashion, mainly for this post:

Now this post is really important:

Netopalis, you have been trying to slow down the Boxman wagon since it took off. First, you call Seol's reasoning for his vote shaky. If this was endgame and that was the basis of Seol's vote, then I would be inclined to agree with you. However, it was page two, and based on that I believe that the reasoning behind Seol's vote was very solid. Next, you call the wagon questionable based on the speed. Bashing a wagon as a whole and being very vague about it is scummy to me. By addressing the wagon as a whole and not the individual voters on it, I believe this leaves you plenty of wiggle room to justify your actions after the fact.

I am not sure I am buying the whole "oops, I forgot" from Boxman. He confirmed on Thursday, random voted early Friday morning, and then his, effectively, "hi guys" post was late Friday evening. It is entirely possible that he forgot to put it in his watched topics as he said, but the fact that these three posts were made two separate days does not give much justice to him saying "oops".

I am not sure how I feel about cam's unvote of Boxman. My initial reaction was the same as Sens, in that I do not see how Boxman's two quick posts can lead to an unvote. cam's reasoning in 199 makes sense to me also though. It is entirely possible that I do not like the unvote based on differing opinions about game theory, but the unvote just does not sit well.

This post gives me strong townvibes. It accurately presents Netapolis' position - that he wanted to slow the wagon down - without misrepresenting his actions to hasten a wagon.

Obviously, I have a different opinion of that slot now. Budja's vote on me, even though I asked for one more post, is very good evidence that he knows I'm the SK given my fakeclaim, because he's scum and knows that the scum didn't target elvis.

Well, overall, I am seriously thinking to believe that you are the SK.

However, if a mafia was about to be lynched today, I fully expected him to change his claim to SK. That is the best way for a mafiate to save himself at this point. SO... I am not dismissing that possibility. But your claim does fit really well with your noun, and your play.

I'm a little confused because you start out this post saying you think Iecerint is scumnouncop. Then you say basically everyone has been acting scummy. Then you say that iecerint is probably niave or ML is the godfather (and therefore iecerint is not scum). What changed your opinion here?

Your reasoning for putting budja down as scum makes lots of sense though. Mafia would have known you were the SK for the whole day, and been very pro-lynching you. FWIW, I think that SC and Budja have been the most sure and eager to lynch you. That may indicate they're the mafia if you're telling the truth.

But, on the chance that you are mafia fake claiming SK, I still think it would make the most sense for budja to be your buddy. At this point you would want to disassociate yourselves. BUT, your explanation for your claim, the way it fits with flavor, is really very convincing.

[elvis_knits]

And Percy, congrats and all for getting married, but it's sort of hard if we can't discuss things with you until the 20th?

What are we supposed to do?

[elvis_knits]

Honestly this claim makes more sense than his last one.

Although, I guess if he's mafia, he was lying about the other one also. The bus driver thing was crap either way.

I hope we get a SK counterclaim.

That would be so exciting.

[elvis_knits]

OMG you're so right about that the RB. He did not need to RB me to prevent me from killing him. He could just absorb the kill (according to him). IN FACT, he wouldn't want to RB me, because there was a chance I would kill SC. So NOT blocking me would be win/win for him, since if I target him he won't die, and if I target SC, then he gets more death which he should want.

[elvis_knits]

Percy, any particular reason why you targeted mathcam?

Percy must answer this. I hope he's not gone at this point.

[elvis_knits]

Percy, any particular reason why you targeted mathcam?

He was on the mislynching wagon and fairly quiet. The chances of him being scum were not terrible, and the chances of him receiving doc protection were low. I was looking for a guaranteed kill, and I wanted to leave Iecerint and SensFan alive - I thought they were more likely to receive doc protection and I also thought it would be easier to win townie points by scumhunting against them the next day.

So I wanted Percy to answer this because I think I know why mathcam was killed.

His last post of D1:

I'm not. In the words of Dr. elbirroH: Nail, meet Hammer.

Unvote: Boxman, Vote: Neto.

Cam

MIGHT THAT MAKE SOMEONE THINK MATHCAM WAS THE DOC???

I am pretty sure mathcam was killed because the SK suspected he was the real doc. And I am pretty sure Percy is not the SK.

[elvis_knits]

Also, Konowa seemed like he was trying to tie mathcam to boxman at one point (remember mathcam swapping his vote around a little). I think mathcam might have put down that doc hint to draw the kill since he knew we might go into a booddogle tomorrow on him. But it also suggests Konowa knew boxman was scum (cause they were buddies) and was setting up mathcam for the mislynch in case boxman got lynched. You gotta do that if you're scum -- tie your buddies to townies.

I am not sure how I feel about cam's unvote of Boxman. My initial reaction was the same as Sens, in that I do not see how Boxman's two quick posts can lead to an unvote. cam's reasoning in 199 makes sense to me also though. It is entirely possible that I do not like the unvote based on differing opinions about game theory, but the unvote just does not sit well.

Agree with the last two posts.

Unvote: Sens, Vote: Boxman.

This is most likely just a continuation of the bad gut feeling I got from his earlier unvote of Boxman, but something about this just feels off to me.

[elvis_knits]

Blargh. Tired.

I think everyone needs to say who they think is the SK at this point and who they think is the mafiers.

Not that I know exactly what I think at this point. My brain is dead from Christmas shopping.

[elvis_knits]

Yeah Iecerint is town noun cop or scum noun cop, IMO.

1) With Iecerint as town noun cop.

I think Percy makes most sense as mafia RB. I think his behavior is more supportive of Budja (until today when they are bussing hard... grr!). The other possibility is Iecerint as Percy's buddy, but Percy did nothing for the first day and a half except vote Iecerint. So I don't think they're on a team together unless they did some awesome distancing/bussing all game.

Which still leaves me to find the SK. Not percy. Not budja. Not Iecerint, and he confirms ML. That leaves SC.

SK: SC
Mafia: RB=Percy, Goon(?)=Budja

2)With Iecerint as scum nouncop.

Since Percy makes no sense to me as his buddy, that would make Percy the SK.

Iecerint's mafia buddy... I don't know who I would say that is. He used ML to confirm himself, which suggests ML is probably not his buddy. I mean, technically I guess he could be, and then Iecerint wouldn't even need to be a nouncop since he would know his buddy's noun.

If Iecerint's buddy isn't ML, and Percy is the SK, that leaves SC or Budja as his buddy. I have to think more on this which one I think is more likely.

SK: Percy
Mafia: nouncop=Iecerint, one of budja or SC

[elvis_knits]

O.o

I was hoping for some SK counterclaims!

But I somehow doubt the real SK would claim to save percy...

Or maybe I'm missing something.

Makes me more sure they're buddies.

But I have to think through this. The new noun he claimed is pretty good. I have to think who might want to counterclaim Percy at this point and for what reason.

[elvis_knits]

AWESOME!

The best thing about that 3-way SK claim is that it makes them all scum, clearing ML, Iecerint, and myself.

And they can't get a no-lynch without one of us voting with them.

I don't know what Budja was thinking there. He can't make one of the townies vote with the scum

I'm not voting yet... I still have to think this through.

But we know FOR SURE now that SC, PErcy and Budja are all scum. We just have to figure out who is who.

[elvis_knits]

Why would Budja be impressed with your SK claim and consequently counterclaim it? Wouldn't he just go along and lynch SK ftw given that RBscum can happily block EK and win him the game?

This.

Budja has absolutely no reason to counterclaim Percy is Percy actually is the SK.

Budja only has reason to counterclaim Percy is Percy is the RBer.

vote percy

[elvis_knits]

My read of that triple SK claim is that RBPErcy claimed SK ot save himself. Budjabuddy claimed SK to try to save percy when we didn't buy it from PErcy. Then SC had to claim SK (when he actually is the SK) because he wants to give himself the best chance of winning (which is we lynch the RB).

So I will be redirecting one of Budja/SC towards the other one or themself. I don't think I should specify.

ANy better plan, lemme know!

[elvis_knits]

She can do scum->scum OR SK->scum, so no wimping out from you scum!

If they don't shoot we just get to lynch them tomorrow. We will have 3 to their 2 even if they work together. They must shoot because if they don't they lose.

[elvis_knits]

Iecerint...

what is with the twisted evil emoticon?

:cries:

[elvis_knits]

Did you kill our mod?

:WEEPS:

[elvis_knits]

I'm just excited to see Percy flip.

O MR. DRAKE~!

God, you had me peeing my pants with that evil emoticon.

I was like "how is this possible, Iecerint is scum? I thought we had 3 SK claims? How big is that F-ing scum team??"

[elvis_knits]

SERIOUSLY

[elvis_knits]

bah

[elvis_knits]

Good game everyone! We were so close this game! I want a rematch!

I really wish I hadn't pushed for Seol's lynch on whatever day that was. I think if we hadn't lynched him we would have won. I think I started the day wanting to lynch SC... which would have been much better if I had stuck to that! I really wish Seol had claimed doc though... I don't understand why he didn't claim. I think we would have lynched scum that day is Seol had claimed. Ah well, everyone played a good game though. Fun times, fun setup, fun roles. I had a good time, everyone! Thanks drake! Congrats Budja (and konowa? was the replaced?)!

[elvis_knits]

Yeah, but we probably would've lynched SXSK D3 if we'd lynched SC D2.

Do you mean spyrex? I would have never lynched him! He was my homey!

[elvis_knits]

lol... but you're right that spyrex did go to a lot of trouble to end the fighting between SC and me. Remember when he told us we should have a truce and get over out differences? lol, spyrex!

[elvis_knits]

Yeah, I still have a crush on him.

I think if spyrex had his way we would have lynched percy. If I had my way we would have lynched SC. Both scum. We compromised with Seol, who was town. Sort of sucked there!

[elvis_knits]

I totally wanted to lynch Percy all game. I just felt nervous talking about it because I thought people would've accused me of OMGUS.

I thought Percy was town to the bone for the first part of the game. One of my biggest blind spots is that I like people who think like me and sometimes mistake them for town. Spyrex convinced me otherwise on percy. I'm not sure I would have seen it otherwise. Perhaps later? I'm not sure.

About being afraid of being accused of OMGUS... I think a townie has to walk a fine line of attacking who you think is scum without giving the other players too much reason to suspect you. Most people will tell you that you shouldn't care about others suspecting you. I don't think you should let it influence your play too much, not to the extent that you don't go after somebody you think is scum. But I also think it's important to signal to the other players that you are town. Most people don't think that's important, but I do. Actually, I think that's the only thing I do really well in this game -- signal that I'm town.

[elvis_knits]

How do you go about signaling that you're town? I think I manage to do it instinctively, as I've never actually been mislynched (well, once, but there were extenuating circumstances). But I don't do it consciously. Is there something that you put forth the effort to do?

Trade secrets!

I don't know really. I just try to avoid the pitfalls of making myself look scummy. Like if I think a person attacking me is scum, I don't say it immediately because then I'm just giving the guy ammunition to say OMGUS! What I try to do is disprove the attack on me, wait a bit, and then work around to showing why I think the person is scummy. It's almost the same thing as turning right around and calling your attacker scum, but the subtle difference seems to keep people from suspecting you as much.

I think sincerity is a big plus. Most people can read sincerity in posts. They might not say it, they might not even think about it consciously, but it you try to be sincere, people tend to recognize it.

Now if only I could effectively do those things as scum, I would be dangerous!

[elvis_knits]

I would love to nominate this game for best setup if Drake would post all the details...