888: X-COM TFTD Mafia: Over!

[Gerhard Krause]

/confirm

Sorry about that. I was looking in the Theme Park for this thread, thought it was a large, not a mini. Totally my mistake.

Now, anyways,

vote: edward

What you did is as good as self voting, and while I'm not a huge fan of policy lynching I think you deserve it. So you get what you want, and I get to vote a self voter. Win win.

[Gerhard Krause]

You guys are going in circles. Leon is saying that there is some sort of reason for any vote someone places, even if that reason is subconscious, and

maybe

you can draw something from that.

Jaime's point is equally valid, that the vast majority of the time judging a player based on an RV is stupid.

[Gerhard Krause]

Usually, but if the wagon is baseless it csn just go on for a while and no useful discussion will come of it.

Igor - How many games of mafia have you played? How many themed games?

You are treading on a very thin line. Igor may say how many games he has finished, but he may not tell you exactly which ones he was in.

[Gerhard Krause]

Sorry about that. I wasn't thinking about that rule, I was random questioning, which I like better than random voting. I find meta very helpful, but obviously I'll be more conscious of the specifics of the game and not ask for it again. It wasn't really meta I was after though, I wanted to get an idea of how experienced a player you are, which is also something I find helpful.

However, Igor, why in god's name are you listing lack of real content as a reason for voting me? We've only barely made it out of the RVS, and your posts are far from brimming with content either.

This feels like opportunistic alien scum, but I like my vote where it is better.

[Gerhard Krause]

@Stuart White - It seems your whole argument boils down to "Just because I didn't post my reasons doesn't mean I don't have them," which is fine. More power to you.

Vote: Stuart White

until you do decide to explain your vote. Is that unreasonable?

[Gerhard Krause]

@Leon Dreyfus- Can I assume your IGMEOY is because of my meta fishing?

[Gerhard Krause]

@Stuart White - The only possible explanation for your vote is that you are some sort of town power role who knows the alignment of Emile, or you are scum trying to get away with a ridiculous gambit.

This is a theme game, so odd roles are far from impossible. If you are such a role then claim, list your reasons, or drop your vote. I think it has become clear that no one else is going to vote based on your word, so you are clearly not going to get the lynch you want the way you're going.

If you were really interested in lynching scum, you would give us some reason to vote with you, but you have not. So if you want Emile lynched, how do you plan to do it?

[Gerhard Krause]

Stuart is getting to close to being lynched for me, and I have to say I agree with Andrew.

Unvote

for now.

Stuart is being exceedingly scummy, and I'm starting to think he's either the ballsiest scum player I've ever seen, or town with some weird agenda.

Note: Stuart could be a jester, or some similar theme role who somehow benefits from being lynched.

I have absolutely no reason to think you're town, but I'm not prepared to lynch anyone yet, and I feel like I'm tunneling at the moment.

@Stuart - Ok, I asked this of someone earlier and got eyed down for it, but have you actually played before? On this site?

Just a reminder, a prerequisite for joining this game was that each player had at least played one game...

I'll be more than happy to lynch you though if you keep up this not explaining bull shit until the end of the day.

[Gerhard Krause]

BULL SHIT, ALL BULL SHIT! Answer Jaime's question.
I don't think that there is a jester. I know this because I have played x-com and there is no place in that game for people wanting to die. No kamakaze or anything of that nature.
keep vote on white.

I suppose that's good enough for me. If lynching him isn't going to kill us then I'm willing to put my vote back for now.

Vote:Stuart White.

My biggest concern here is that his being blatantly anti-town, and refusing to back down from it, even when directly and repeatedly questioned, makes him a potentially fatal liability.

[Gerhard Krause]

@mod - When the game is over, can I keep the account? I like the name.

Sure, do whatever you like...

But this also brings up a major point I've meaning to mention to you all: Do you want your actual accounts revealed? I personally don't think it has any bearing on the game (and don't just reply to this "Oh, well it's important because we can narrow down who's playing each alt", because that's really against the spirit of the game) so I feel I can leave it up to you. Vote Reveal or Vote Not Reveal, and whatever gets a majority vote, will be enforced for the rest of the game...

[Gerhard Krause]

Isn't a jester a town role? Or is it indy?

Also Stuart, why aren't you defending yourself? You've essentially said "this is what I'm doing, so suck it," and right now it looks like you're going to get lynched for doing it. You can be right in your own mind all you want, but that isn't going to translate to the rest of us.

You've said that you trust the town, but how do expect us to effectively scum hunt with this issue staring everyone in the face, and giving the scum the easiest thing ever to hide behind?

[Gerhard Krause]

Ok, so now you're putting conditions on whether or not you'll tell us anything. Normally I'd lose my mind over that, but at least we're getting somewhere.

I hereby

agree

not to debate the validity of whatever reason Stuart posts for more than a page, but reserve the right to bring it up later in the day if I deem it relevant.

Is that good enough for you?

[Gerhard Krause]

@Stuart - If you post some blatantly bullshit reason I'm going to say it's not valid.

Will you please post now?

[Gerhard Krause]

@mod - vote: No reveal, unless it's at the end of the game. You made these accounts part of the game, so let's keep it that way.

[Gerhard Krause]

My vote is serious, I'd be happy to see him die atm. I have no intention of revealing why.

I'd switch my vote. I'd switch my vote for a lot less than that too. My confidence in my emile vote is far from absolute.

Now you're back tracking. That is a legitimate scum tell, so your explanation now needs to be that much better.

Seriously, it's time to answer up or be lynched. You're at L-1, and this tight lipped stubbornness is not helping you make any friends here.

You know as well as I do that someone is going to hammer unless you start posting exactly what everyone wants to hear. I agreed to your "conditions," but I don't think anyone else is going to be so charitable.

[Gerhard Krause]

Bullet proof? Ok, 1) I don't buy that at all.

@Those who have played X-Com is there some invincible hero? I doubt it.

2) No one asked you to claim, we asked you to explain your vote, or to explain why you won't tell us.

3) What does your role PM say your role is specifically? The Townie Pm calls you an aquanaut, and we're lynching people with a sonic cannon, so I doubt it actually used the word bullet proof.

Are you certain you are bullet proof in the traditional sense? Or can you not be lynched, or are you just immune to everything? I don't see why the mod would include a role like that, or even a bullet proof in the traditional sense.

This is a weird claim, I don't like it.

Feedback ya'll?

[Gerhard Krause]

As a bullet proof, shouldn't you be trying to use up mafia NK's rather than getting yourself lynched? Right now you cannot possibly be unaware that your present course of action is going to get you lynched, and if it doesn't, there is not a chance in hell that the mafia wold NK you, since they could almost certainly get you lynched the next day and not waste their NK.

So again this leads back to why won't you tell us the reasons behind your vote?

[Gerhard Krause]

flavour = I was trusted with some super secret new armour thats immune to sonic weapons and painted it like everyone else's diving suits.

Ok, why? Does it say why you've been chosen as opposed to someone else?

[Gerhard Krause]

Also, if you can I still want an explanation of at least why you can't tell us why you're voted.

Look back over the last couple pages mate. We've been asking him non-stop and now he's actively ignoring the question.

@Stuart - I have reasoned with you at my best diplomatic capacity, and you still have not provided us with an explanation, or a reason to be fine without an explanation, and I can no longer think of a reason to keep you alive.

Your PR now is essentially useless. There is no reason for scum to target you at night, and you certainly are not exercising the scumhunting freedom that comes with being bullet proof, therefore I do not see your claim, even if it is true, as a strong enough reason not to blow you to hell with that big sonic cannon over there.

@mod - You're going to have an amazing opportunity to write a kick ass scene when someone gets lynched.

[Gerhard Krause]

Oh wait, he said his armor makes him immune to sonic weaponry. We have a sonic cannon, not a rope.

This is why it's important what your role PM actually calls you.

[Gerhard Krause]

It truly amazes me that you think you have that much political capital. You're al L-1 mate. Get talking.

I'll wait on the mod bit though.

[Gerhard Krause]

@Andrew - What is your position on Stuart? Are you prepared to hammer him if he doesn't start talking, or are you going to leave that to someone else and go an alternate route?

Normally I'd be all for setting this aside and start looking at other players, but I feel like in this case it's going to be too easy for scum to hide behind voting for Stuart for obvious reasons.

[Gerhard Krause]

@Jaime - Spencer did. He decided to go after Leon for some answers, and Andrew was never on the wagon, because he would have been the hammer vote, and he wasn't ready to do that.

The Leon question is interesting, but I can't imagine what sort of scummy answer he could possibly come up with to get us to lynch him rather than Stuart. I'd like to hear what he has to say, but I have no intention of unvoting.

[Gerhard Krause]

Ok, you're just playing dumb now. This is stupid. Can we ignore Stuart or hammer him? One or the other, but he's not even trying to play the game at this point.

Oh wait, he's only at L-2 now. Ok, can we please put him back at L-1? It is clear that he is not interested in either scum hunting, or defending himself, and we can only be left with assumption that he either does not care about the game, or is a jester.

[Gerhard Krause]

The issue here is that it is too easy for everyone to hide behind Stuart's wagon. Whether or not a scum player would choose to be on it is actually WIFOM. Scum sees a super easy wagon, and he then has the luxury of either pushing the wagon through, or staying off it, knowing the candidate will probably be lynched anyway. The problem with Stuart is that he has been

so

anti-town that scum don't have to be on his wagon to get him lynched.

This is all assuming he is town, which I do not believe. However, if he does flip town we need to be careful not to let the people off the wagon off the hook, since at this point I think that that would be an even easier place for scum to hide.

Can we please get either some new info or the hammer? The conversation is going in circles, and Stuart has made it clear in plain english that he has no intention of putting up anymore information. He even said

he will never give any reasons behind any votes, ever during this game

.

Talking about Stuart has become futile. Lets get up some content about other players, or end the day here, because this case clearly isn't going anywhere.

Now to take some of my own advice, Otto only has 6 posts, and none on recent pages. He is quite easily skating by and is not on the Stuart wagon. I think it is going to be too easy for scum in later days to point back here at day 1 and say "look, I wasn't on the Stuart wagon, so I can't be scum. Scum would push the easy lynch." Either he is inactive, or actively lurking waiting for the day to blow over with no thought given to him.

No one else stands out too much right now, mostly since Stuart's play has overshadowed anything we might have gained from day 1, however I encourage players to look, but honestly I don't expect them to find anything.

[Gerhard Krause]

Atm my top scum suspects:

Scum: Gerhard Spencer Emile

I suppose it would be futile to ask why?

[Gerhard Krause]

@Stuart - What do you plan to take from people's answers? I'm sure I could go back and read everyone in iso to find two or three people on the wagon I think are scummier than the rest, then answer your question. Then you will take some kind of info from that answer, and I have no reason to expect you will share any of it.

So no, I'm not going to answer your question purely for your benefit. I have no more interest in trying to reason with you, as I have been trying extremely hard since the first page. There is no reason for any of us to answer your questions, since you clearly have no intention of telling us the intention behind those questions.

I have every intention of looking closely at all the people on and off the wagon, but I do not intend to draw any conclusions until after I see your flip, nor do I want to post vague suspicions now, since that will allow any scum I do happen to touch upon to come up with a defense before a comprehensive case is posted on them.

[Gerhard Krause]

@Jaime - You misunderstood me. I chose not to answer him because I would rather reserve the information I find until after his flip, and I am not incentivized to answer him on the assumption that he will present information based on my answer.

You see what I mean?

[Gerhard Krause]

@Tracey - What makes this a better lynch than Stuart? There is no guarantee we have a vig, or even a cop for that matter, and it would literally sicken me to see Stuart get away with this strategy.

Let's say that these lynches are of equal value, and we find each just as scummy. Emile doesn't have any ties to any other player, and his flip really won't give us any information about Stuart. However, if Stuart flips scum, it is unlikely that Emile is scum also, and I he flips town it gives his stubborn tunneling slightly more credit. I'd feel more comfortable with lynching Stuart than Emile.

My reasons aren't game specific.

Now this is the first bit of significant info we've had from Stuart all day. Reasons not being game specific can only mean his reasons do not come from this game. That means that he has some kind of interaction with Emile outside this thread, which means they either have some means of communicating (i.e. Town/mafia aligned lovers, masons, a scum team (unlikely), or some flavor based roles which they are forbidden to claim) or Stuart knows Emile's alternate acount, or has some other kind of info which he is prohibited from having, or his reasons are bullshit and he's leading us on. None of these options lead me to not want to lynch him, except maybe the first, but that is essentially a shot in the dark, so there is no reason to place any store in it.

Tracey, I see your reasoning, but it is not enough for me to take my vote off of Stuart.

[Gerhard Krause]

Orski has only posted twice. This is an issue. This must change. Edward only posted three times before him. I didn't catch this before, but it is seriously bothering me. Will anyone else consider pressuring Orski until we get some content from him?

Orski is being replaced, if you didn't notice...

@Stuart - Well if it is just theory, which is the only non game specific reason I can think of, then what is the point of concealing it?

[Gerhard Krause]

@Jaime- we can talk, there is no night phase remember? There is only a 48 hour twilight in which we can talk but not vote.

I agree that if he flips scum emile will get some town points, but Otto might be bussing his scum buddy.

[Gerhard Krause]

Wow, that was the most obviously bullshit claim I have ever encountered on this site, and it was true... You know, I would feel bad except that Stuart's play was so bad he was never going to be useful in his role anyway.

The Otto thing is WIFOM. He could be scum, he could be town, Idk. We'll see. I don't think there is going to be anyone not keeping an eye on him though, so I suggest we be conscious of tunneling. Let's not set up another easy mislynch.

I'm going to do some rereading for now.

[Gerhard Krause]

Oh, I typed that while you were writing, sorry.

Deleted it for you.

[Gerhard Krause]

"Bah" My role was a little too complicated for me. "MC Controller"

[Gerhard Krause]

Oh, mod I am going to keep the account. I don't mind you revealing who I was though.

[Gerhard Krause]

@mod: Can we please have that thread you talked about for dead players? I'm still following the game with interest.

Thanks