Mini 876 - Tree Stump II [Day None] (Abandoned)

[Kirbyoshi]

/confirm as replacement. Reading and posting soon.

[Kirbyoshi]

[quote=”Quag”]Can people please stop using 'there's nothing better to go on right now' as an excuse to vote someone? It's not legitimate, and it's not an excuse. Don't pretend like it is.[/quote]
[quote=”However, Quag also”] If there's something better to go on right now I'd go for it. But there's not.[/quote]
??? His next post does NOT give an adequate explanation for this.

Another contradiction:
[quote=”Quag”] From what I understand and have read of Tjoe Min Ja, he's a new player who doesn't quite grasp mafia just yet. As thus, his logic and posting style is going to be skewed to the point where bad logic isn't going to be a scumtell in this case... in other words, it's going to take time to figure out exactly what he's all about.[/quote]
[quote=”Quag later”] Another problem is, I've done that exact same thing probably 100 times as town. So, you can't use that as a scumtell.[/quote]
If scumtells are subjective, they’re subjective for everyone.

[quote=”Quag”] The problem with the way you think Fonz is that you can't just strictly break down actions into either 'pro-town' or 'anti-town' and then place one action into only one of those classifications. Mafia doesn't work like that, especially when you're using such blatant expressions like Saberwolf did.[/quote]
This is bad logic, as anything anyone says in Mafia can be placed into one of those two categories. Give me an example of something that can’t.

[quote=”Quag”] You're advocating mafia as essentially a mathematical formula[/quote]
Quote for me somewhere he used math in one of his arguments. The response and continuation of your baseball analogy does not demonstrate Fonzie using math.

[quote=”Quag”] How is that not a formulaic way to play again?[/quote]
He doesn’t have to say how it isn’t, until you give a reason why it is.

So yeah, Quag is pretty scummy.

Vote: Quagmire

[Kirbyoshi]

Can people please stop using 'there's nothing better to go on right now' as an excuse to vote someone? It's not legitimate, and it's not an excuse. Don't pretend like it is.

If there's something better to go on right now I'd go for it. But there's not.

??? His next post does NOT give an adequate explanation for this.

Another contradiction:

From what I understand and have read of Tjoe Min Ja, he's a new player who doesn't quite grasp mafia just yet. As thus, his logic and posting style is going to be skewed to the point where bad logic isn't going to be a scumtell in this case... in other words, it's going to take time to figure out exactly what he's all about.

Another problem is, I've done that exact same thing probably 100 times as town. So, you can't use that as a scumtell.

If scumtells are subjective, they’re subjective for everyone.

The problem with the way you think Fonz is that you can't just strictly break down actions into either 'pro-town' or 'anti-town' and then place one action into only one of those classifications. Mafia doesn't work like that, especially when you're using such blatant expressions like Saberwolf did.

This is bad logic, as anything anyone says in Mafia can be placed into one of those two categories. Give me an example of something that can’t.

You're advocating mafia as essentially a mathematical formula

Quote for me somewhere he used math in one of his arguments. The response and continuation of your baseball analogy does not demonstrate Fonzie using math.

How is that not a formulaic way to play again?

He doesn’t have to say how it isn’t, until you give a reason why it is.

So yeah, Quag is pretty scummy.

Vote: Quagmire

Wow, that last post was an uber-quotefail. -_-;

[Kirbyoshi]

You basically said you were going after Shanba because there wasn't anything better to go on, after saying it was a lame excuse. Then you try to cover it up by giving this semantical BS:

There's a difference between voting for someone due to lack of a better option, and voting for someone while understanding there could be a better option.

Explain how trying to cover up hypocrisy isn't scummy.

[Kirbyoshi]

Ok then, fine.

Unvote

, depending on your answer to this, which I probably should have asked you first:

What exactly is "estranged voting"?

[Kirbyoshi]

I'd like to try to explain away Mr.Jester's play, but unfortunately, I can't read his mind, and I don't know what was going through his head when he posted. Furthermore, although I replaced in for him, I am not him, so I should not be held responsible for his actions.

[Kirbyoshi]

Did you not read at all? Quag clearly explained his problem with shanba's vote on Tjoe.

So then, "estranged voting" means voting for someone for whom no one else has voted yet? How is that a scumtell? Seems to me scum would try to blend in.

[Kirbyoshi]

You can call me dumb all you want, but I looked back through your iso, and nowhere did you give a definition for "estranged voting". I personally have never heard of this scumtell, and would be delighted if you would share your wisdom(!).

[Kirbyoshi]

@Quag's 265: Ok, that's good. Didn't see how that reason could be estranged is why I didn't notice it as a definition, but if that's the way you define it, I'm fine with it.

Reading isos, post and vote forthcoming!

[Kirbyoshi]

Vote: Tjoe Min Ja

A lot of people have been inactive or apathetic about this game, but he has been pushing wrong causes. (Read: The theory that China's quote could be a scumclaim, the case on Cybele/Haylen (i.e. basing a case solely on lurking), being a little too concerned about who is scummy.)

[Kirbyoshi]

Sorry scot, I've been kind of busy, with the holidays and all, in addition to the fact that I can't remember who replaced whom. Still working on it though, and will have it soon(ish).

[Kirbyoshi]

^that. Read the thread plux.

[Kirbyoshi]

@Sanjay: Ya, pretty much. Seemed like a BS tactic until he explained it.

@Tjoe: Interesting! Care to explain that OMGUS vote, or are you just going to leave it like it is?

[Kirbyoshi]

Points against TJoe:
1. Iso2: If you don’t know that that “proposal” is a good idea, you’re beyond VI; you’re just dumb. And he obviously wasn’t joking, because he’s still waiting for an answer in his Iso3.
2. Iso4: The vote’s just wrong. Cybele just flaked. I knew that when I saw that post. Lurking is not scummy by itself.
3. Second part of Iso4: He asked for the link in his Iso0, and didn’t read the game? I have no intention of reading TS1, but if you’re the one who asks for the link, you’d better read what it links to.
4. Iso12: Why did he feel the need to re-vote Cybele? At that point, Cybele was obviously not coming back.
5. Iso19 misreps Quag. He never said Saber was “guaranteed town”; he said “all but guaranteed.” Quag never guaranteed anything.

[Kirbyoshi]

1. Iso2: If you don’t know that that “proposal” is

not

a good idea,

EBWOP

[Kirbyoshi]

@saber: Quag said you were "all but confirmed." Tjoe tried to twist that to mean "confirmed," hence this quote:

I don't like this post....what make you think he is "guaranteed town"?
everyone is vanilla, so the only way you can guarantee that he is town is if you are scum.

And now that I'm back at school, and the OP is accurate, I'll get to work on that analysis!

[Kirbyoshi]

Sanjay, why do you point me out over everyone else?

I think I'll just give up on the uber-detailed post due to lack of time with finals coming up.
TMJ is still scummy, for reasons stated earlier.
Sanjay is mildly scummy for being (from my POV) the main proponent of the China misunderstanding.
Saberwolf just doesn't/didn't care (as in, he may care now, idk). He's town.
Not sure I get the case on Sudo after reading his posts; anyone wanna concisely state it for meh?
Fonz has some weak logic sometimes, but we all do. He's town.
Scot is town; no real points against him that I can see.
I get a weird feeling from Quag, but nothing scummy.
Kairyuu needs to get posting, like nao.
Empking posts very short posts; have to read up on his meta, to see if he's that way all the time.
DisCode needs more posts too.
@Haylen's recent posts: Whoa, chill down girl, for real. The world's not gonna end just because Sanjay didn't like one of your posts, and getting angry about it isn't going to help anything.

[Kirbyoshi]

Thanks for the case Fonz. Seems to be on solid ground.

What is the point of making this statement about a player who has declared V/LA for another two weeks from now?

Oops, didn't see that, sorry.

Well, yes, it is. But more to the point- what relevance does this have to anything?

Because, if it weren't his meta, it could be a way of withholding information, or of being careful not to slip up.

Unvote TMJ, Vote: Sudo_Nym

with Tjoe still as my #2, and Sanjay 3rd.

[Kirbyoshi]

Make a case against me, Kirbyoshi.

No. I'm not obligated to, as I'm not voting you, and you're not even my second suspect. Although the paranoia adds a minuscule amount to my still mild suspicion of you.

[Kirbyoshi]

Sanjay is mildly scummy for being (from my POV) the main proponent of the China misunderstanding.

This, basically. It's just a mild suspicion, but I don't find anyone else at all suspicious, other than Sudo and TMJ.

[Kirbyoshi]

With the exception of a couple players, it seems like everyone

has

flaked, including Sens.

Agreed that Sudo should stump nao. We can use a stump; we can't use a dead tree.

[Kirbyoshi]

I definitely want to continue, if at all possible.

[Kirbyoshi]

Fonz, I'd add Haylen to your list, which makes exactly half the game active and exactly half inactive. This seems to be a really bad time for abandoning games. Maybe it won't be so bad after finals...

[Kirbyoshi]

lol fail Saber. Any word what for?