Mini 875 - Utopia Mafia -- Mod Abandoned

[Budja]

Because the statistics do not lie!

Statistically, I am town more often than scum.

vote Juls

[Budja]

unvote, vote Haylen

self-voting = anti-town

[Budja]

I think Haylen's over-the-top posting is more scummy.
I've seen people acting/doing purposely scummy things in order to start discussion but Haylen's post was so over-the-top that it was effectively was more likely to extend rather than end the RVS.

FoS Lewacher

, three posts and all of them useless.

[Budja]

@Haylen, I'm not telling you how to play. I was pushing the scummyiest thing I had seen yet (not very scummy TBH). With your last posts I think I will

unvote

.

@lewarcher, its not that you were joking as such. Its that you were adding nothing to the game with your posts.

@Tjoe, I also really what your answers for your action.
Do you think Haylen should claim?
Is claiming reasonable at this time?
etc.

vote Tjoe

(L-3)

SW, why didn't you comment on what Tjoe said in the post just before yours?

QFT. It was pretty easy to see.

[Budja]

I'm not fishing. that's a sarcasm. I just want him to stop joking and do some real analysis.

Then why didn't you just say so?

Vaya & maemuki: I'm not fishing. he seem to get a free pass. and I'm not buying it.

A free pass with what?

Oh, and this comment by Mae seems scummy to me.

TBH I was thinking of withholding my vote too as a threat so I don't see this as bad.

I'm not particularly bothered by the speed of the wagon, just so long as it doesn't devolve into a quicklynch.

[Budja]

Waiting around and joking isn't helpful. Juls explains it well in 31. Just keep posting content and I'll be happy.

[Budja]

what have you done? who is the scummiest to you then?

Uh you, hence the vote. If you read my posts you can see I'm posting content, what you think of it is up to you.

and yet you vote me. did you expect other to put L-2, L-1, and hammer me later? or you are going to unvote if I get L-1?

If you are quicklynched, it will be easy to find the scum.

that's the whole point of sarcasm. I never expect him to answer nor I need the answer.

Actually, with your slightly broken English (no offence intended), that is plausible.

unvote

[Budja]

Nothing wrong with instinct, as long as it doesn't replace scum-hunting. Just don't expect me to follow a gut read blindly.

@lewarcher, whats so wrong with acting pro-town.

More later..

[Budja]

uh oh...so you agree to quicklynching then...

If you am quick-lynched, it will be by scum at this stage.

me? name a case against me! (beside "what so called softfishing")

You are responding with a little panic. That post is a little fractured, I am less sure now, hence the unvote.

[Budja]

Can't defend myself against a gut-read. (Deja Vu). I have no real knowledge of my scum meta, but my play-style varys greatly from game to game.

@Tjoe, I don't know if scum are on your wagon or not. I don't feel that anyone joined your wagon for bad reasons.

Don't worry, you're not the primary lynch candidate...for now.

Then who is?

---

it is always a wise course of action for scum to try softfishing as long as everyone is still joking... wouldn't you agree, Tjoe?

Also: sarcasm, according to wikipedia is "a form of humor that uses sharp, cutting remarks or language intended to mock, wound, or subject to contempt or ridicule, generally saying the opposite of what the statement really is." I don't see anything witty in your question to the duck, I only see rolefishing.

Well, I finally see a votecount and I have to say that 4 votes on Tjoe's head just for the soft-fishing we all noticed is a bit too much.

Why the change of heart? You looked a lot more certain of the tell before.
Also, you say you are unvoting for the size of the wagon. I find it hard to believe you hadn't noticed all the other vote before.

vote lewarcher

[Budja]

Read the case on you properly, what Juls said above, etc.

Also a two day V/LA isn't much. Its not like there was a flurry of posting after you left.

[Budja]

I find it hard to believe you hadn't noticed all the other votes before.

[Budja]

I'll clarify.

I don't want town to quicklynch. (Thats what I meant in the first post). A pressure wagon is good, as long as people don't get over-enthusiastic and lynch.

Tjoe stated that he could be quicklynched when he was at L-3. The only reason he would be quicklynched would be by scum at that stage, so I wouldn't mind much as we would have found most/all the scum team (so it is very unlikely).

In short, quicklynch is bad, if you do it you are scum.
My opinion did not change a bit.

[Budja]

@Taranski, I got next to no pressure for joining the Tjoe wagon. What was wrong with my vote in particular?

@Haylen, Taranski, what do you both think of the lewarcher wagon?

[Budja]

Lewarcher's reaction to his wagon just scream caught-out scum to me.

@Juls, Snow White seems to have legit reasons, there are better people to hassle. But I couldn't agree more with your first paragraph. I still have no read on over half the town.

Putting this in a little perspective for those following the thread.
We have less than a week to lynch.

[Budja]

I like the idea of questions as long as they don't distract people too much from "recent" events.

Budja - you said your playstyle varies from game to game, can you give some examples of specific things you have modified since Communique mafia when playing scum?

I have not being scum since communique (although I was scum in the majority of my earlier games).
As scum I tended not to make cases (saw everyone as town) and died early for that but not in every scum game and I did this as town sometimes too. TBH, I don't know my own meta.

[Budja]

actually it looks fine

Yeah, I half-read his last post and it wasn't really that bad. Still think he is the most likely scum though (out of the few actual posters anyway).

[quote = "Budja"]Why the change of heart? You looked a lot more certain of the tell before.
Also, you say you are unvoting for the size of the wagon. I find it hard to believe you hadn't noticed all the other vote before.

@Budja : what make you think he is scum other than that[/quote]
The fact his unvote came after Juls cast suspicion on your wagon.

[Budja]

I don't think anyone should sacrifice themselves. A scum lynch must surely still be better than a town lynch. If we lynch town today, as we have quite a "good" chance of doing, we have the consolation of getting our edge.

So I think it is a pointless and anti-town move. I am very interested in your motivation here Juls.

[Budja]

@Haylen, self-preservation is not a bad habit but self-preservation at all costs is (i.e fakeclaiming as town, laying low to avoid NK at VT, surviver play.).

[Budja]

Is it just me or we're all aware that neither mafia or towns have no roles until the after the first death?

Why should we assume this?

-@Budja. You say you see no problem with a bandwagon so long as it doesnt develop into a quicklynch to Vaya post 48. But are willing to hear who else is the lynch candidate from Maemuki post 72. I dislike this. It sounds as though you'll lynch whoever the general consensus goes with, if you dont mind my saying.

You are reading quite a lot into that. There is nothing wrong with asking for other's players suspicions. It was for pressure, to help determine Mae's stance.

If you read my posts I did retract that "screams scum" comment. Skimming on my part.

Too much summary and not enough reasoning Snow, who is scum (or most likely so)?

---------------

@Juls, you have your info, enlighten us.

[Budja]

Its all just WIFOM really.

I really disagree Juls, as I said before self-sacrifice is anti-town. I'd rather lynch randomly than lynch a sacrifice. As least then we have a chance of hitting scum. We make our own sacrifices.

I think Haylen's "confession" of her play was town.
I think J-Fox needs a replacement. The fact you chose for him is suss.

I am up for lewarcher or snow white at this point.

[Budja]

I didn't really think you were actually suggesting it as a plan (that would be horribly scummy), but still that doesn't make the idea of sacrificing a good one.

If someone asked the town to vote for them to give the rest of the players an edge, do you really think it a good idea to lynch them based on that?
The fact is that by lynching our collective scummiest, as per usual, we get to pick our "sacrifice" and even have a better chance of hitting scum.
-----

unvote, vote Snow

[Budja]

unvote, vote lewarcher

for inconsistancy on top of the previous.
Juls question is only scummy after you are called suspicious because of it. I didn't hear you complaining about fishing before. (Yeah, I did a reread. Look at lewarcher's opinions/reaction to the question in iso).

@snow, TBH I just wanted to see what your reaction would be . You reacted alright and answered my question. I assumed Mae was still a random vote.

[Budja]

@Tjoe,
1. L-3 is not really not that risky at all. I thought we had already gone over this.
2. you misunderstand me, by choosing a sacrifice, I mean decide on a lynch as per normal not ask for volunteers. That, as I have already stated would be horribly scummy.

I think the question was good in that it sparked reactions/conversation. I don't think the results are particular compelling. If I had to make I choice I would say that scum would more likely say yes and join the majority (and Juls' choice) but mostly I think it is a lot of WIFOM.

But the question had exposed lewarcher scum which makes it useful in the end, but not in the way Juls wanted it to be.

J-Fox, I have no idea because he is nonexistent in this game and needs to be replaced.

Then why did you put him in the 'no' group?

I called it fishy as soon as she explained that the no's were scum. This statement implies that power roles who may have answered no are forced to defend. This makes the question fishy.

But by placing into yes/no categories would help scum find PR's by your logic anyway. You showed no negative reaction to it until you were targeted by it.

[Budja]

@Tjoe, you most certainly misunderstand me.

What I was saying is:
- having a townie sacrifice is bad
- it is better if we lynch someone as we usually do in mafia
- then we have a chance of hitting scum
- and if we hit town, it will have the same effect as having a sacrifice.

---

@Mae, why no vote?

@Juls, what you you think of the actual case on lewarcher?

[Budja]

Juls - in the neutral zone. general pro-town feel, but some of the recent focus on the question is scummy.
Haylen - looks transparent town.

@Mae, I take your point about the votecount (may the mod return soon) but its still pretty clear he is in no danger yet.

Unofficial Votecount

(probably right)
Tjoe Min Ja (3):, Vaya, Haylen, J-Fox
lewarcher82 (2): Juls, Budja
Vaya (1): Malthusis
Maemuki (1): Snow White
Budja(1): Tjoe Min Ja
J-Fox(1): Taranski
mentosman8(1): Maemuki
Juls(1): lewarcher82
Not Voting: mentosman8

Depressing how many prods/replacement we need.

Add Mae to my willing to lynch list above snow. Buddying vibe, appears to be trying to "ride the wave" (hard to articulate).
Lewarcher is still obvscum though.

[Budja]

@Tjoe, 1. how should I know? and 2. don't hassle me about not answering unless I actually posted after the question, thank you.

@Juls, Haylen admission to her playstyle seemed honest to me. Apart from the its just a general "openness" feel to her posts. (Not a great explanation I know, basically gut.)

@Snow,
1. Glad someone agrees with me on the question. You seem to have virtually an identical view to me.
2. Claiming no powers in a bad idea if powers exist as it is basically a vanilla claim (for now)

What actually IS the case on Lewarcher?

Read my posts. I am

not

following Juls' case which it the one you are disagreeing with.

The case on lewarcher is a) his switch of the Tjoe wagon after Juls pressured it for little reason (lesser point) and more importantly b) the OMGUS attack on Juls and her question only after he was suspected for it. He had no problem with role-fishing while it was being asked.

In short, inconsistency.

I believe one should have more reason to vote for someone than to see the reaction.

Why not? I was not going to push your lynch with it. It was to help me decide whether to vote for you or lewarcher. I chose you as I don't trust Juls. Then I noticed lew's scummy position switch and you were forgotten .

----

What would be really great is for opinions. We can't expect to catch scum with our votes and suspicions so spread out.
@everyone (who hasn't said so), do you agree with the lewarcher case?
If not, who should we all vote for instead and why?

[Budja]

Ah, I misunderstood what you were talking about .
I went from the mod's last count and he had J-Fox voting you.
Probably a mod-error.

[Budja]

I wanted to push Tjoe to L-3. More pressure is good. I was not aiming for a lynch then (I am now).

Why should you trust me anymore than Juls?

I didn't. I chose to

vote

you as I didn't trust Juls.
TBH, the reason I had for voting you are pretty invalid now so I guess I do trust you a bit more now.

I'd OMGUS vote Juls for voting my inactivity but seeing as she's already got one OMGUS vote i'd rather keep that to a minimum. That and i like my vote where it stands atm.

Its only OMGUS if you have no other (valid) reasons.
What strikes me as odd it that you seem to dislike a lot of Juls but she is one of your top town.
----

All other cases apart from mine against Lewarcher are bad IMO.

---

The Mae case is okish (I only half-agree with most your points) but not half as good as lewarcher.

[Budja]

Ok,

That was bad.

Honestly, I believed your question to be rolefishing aswell and sacrificing a townie is never good in any circumstance.

You just lost your townie points. Guilty of the same thing as lewarcher.

Unvote, vote: Haylen

If you thought that, you should have said it....

Scummy, yes you are right, but you had very little reaction to lewacher's almost identical action.
Scumbuddy link to lewarcher.

-----

@Haylen, why didn't you say so earlier when you answered?

-----

Lol. I prodded the mod.

This mod V/LA is getting ridiculous .

[Budja]

@Juls, the inconsistency is that you seemed pretty evenly weighted on lewarcher/Haylen.

Why I chose lewarcher over Haylen? There is no real reason other than Budja and J-Fox are eliminated from contention for me sense Budja is scumhunting and J-Fox is non existent. And the aforementioned lack of scumhunting make both front runners for me.

(This is after I have posted my case). As far as I can tell, you chose these players by your question and a general lack of scum-hunting.

The case of how he is behaving after the fact? I buy it. I think it's a legitimate case. It probably gives him the edge over Haylen for scum.

After I ask, you acknowledge my case but don't seem to place much weight on it.

The reason Haylen looks worse is that he is piggybacking Lewarcher's argument now. Pretty sad to piggyback a bad one.

The scummy part is not the opinion, its is the inconsitancy. The opinion that your question was role-fishing isn't scummy (although pretty weak), the sudden change of mind is.

But I do take your point on the piggybacking. Still, I think lewarcher is the better lynch. His change of opinion was stronger/more of a shift.

---

I do not see what you are doing. You were favoured by the fact that almost no1 FoSed you since the start

I have no idea what you are saying here.

[Budja]

I do get your point though. This game is in dire need of prods/deadlines.

u should, Budja. u act like a clear, and u aren't. u better have a good explanation for this once Juls is lynched and scum or I am lynched and inno.

a clear = confirmed town?
I really don't understand what you are trying to say there.
Why would I need an explanation on the off chance you turn up town anyway?

[Budja]

Pity. This looked like a fun game.

Tjoe, J-Fox and me were the scum.

I was investigation immune so I was kinda hoping to draw an investigation.
I thought lewarcher was a power-role.
I would have pushed Snow White for our NK.

[Budja]

Take it as a compliment .

[Budja]

Sir Budja the Sorcerer,

I should have never allowed a Gnome/Mystic in this kingdom. I know you were never acting in the best interests of this kingdom, and thankfully, I never trusted you. However, your agents are preventing me from informing the rest of the Kingdom. It seems that you and your partners Tjoe Min Ja and J-Fox may succeed after all.

For now, however, you are not at your full strength. A crystal ball on your province has revealed that you are currently acting under anonymity and are therefore Investigation Immune

That explains your actions then lewarcher . I thought you were a PR (or SK) after your reaction but neutral is just as understandable.