Mini 857 Disney Movie Mafia 2 - The Classics (Roll Credits)

[Starbuck]

Yank, you aren't even posting a case on anyone, nor have your vote on anyone.

Please contribute.


@all - these constant V/LAs are very annoying. Please do those that want to play this game a favor and either participate as you should or be replaced.

[Starbuck]

I've made my case and voted, and everyone else seems to be afk infinitely.

This game is stalled. It either needs some replacements who give a crap to play or everyone else needs to honor their commitment when they /in'd.

[Starbuck]

@Jazz - Am I seriously the only one you find suspicious?

[Starbuck]

Semioldguy, you just say one line about Yank here. Do you have anything further for a case?

[Starbuck]

FOS: Semioldguy

For voting and not providing a full case

[Starbuck]

@Starbuck
Why does voting without providing a full case when I vote deserve an FoS? Why do you find this suspicious?

Because scum don't provide full cases. They just vote because they really don't care who dies, as long as it isn't them.

[Starbuck]

@Starbuck
Why does voting without providing a full case when I vote deserve an FoS? Why do you find this suspicious?

Because scum don't provide full cases. They just vote because they really don't care who dies, as long as it isn't them.

There are plenty of good reasons for town to vote without providing cases. That doesn't make those votes automatically scummy.

I am asking you to provide a full case, and you are refusing. To me, that means, you really don't have much of one.

[Starbuck]

I'm still waiting for a case from you, Jazz.

[Starbuck]

I know right. This is freaking ridiculous.

[Starbuck]

What's the case on YankCane?

Does anyone have any questions about my case on Brandi?

[Starbuck]

SC, I wasn't meaning you since you have been here all along.

I'm talking about everyone else who doesn't seem to want to do anything.

[Starbuck]

It's nice to see someone who will be active.

Welcome to the game!

[Starbuck]

I'm still here guys. Just checking in, I'm waiting for the cases that were promised to be posted.

I've made my case on Brandi (now Kublai).

Kublai, there's probably not a lot in there that you can answer since you aren't Brandi, but please try your best to do so?

[Starbuck]

I've been dealing with family stuff, as my Great Grandmother passed away last night.

Posting official V/LAs in all my games.

[Starbuck]

I'm voting for Brandi (now Kublai Khan) and I have a full case 2 pages back.

[Starbuck]

@curiouskarmadog - Jazzmyn and myself are both females.

[Starbuck]

Starbuck voted Monkey with her very first post for a spurious reason. It looked like a random vote at first, which would have been entirely okay, and completely acceptable, but Starbuck dug her heels in and never did admit that it was random and insisted that it was legit somehow even though it clearly was not.

I never admitted that it was random because it wasn't random. I voted to get us out of RVS by starting discussion, pressure and for reaction, which I definitely said and also makes your accusation that my vote was spurious null and void.

Monkey gave a pretty damn scummy reaction all of Day 1, if I do say so myself, but when he claimed and then claimed his flavor. It didn't sound like something that he could just make up on his own, although the fact that he took so long to claim his flavor is quite questionable.

Thus began a relentless campaign of Starbuck v. Monkey, which never really ended until Monkey's lynch at the deadline. Even though Starbuck got off of the Monkey wagon when he claimed his power role, she got back on it later, and then jumped off again before he was lynched, but she continued to go after him - relentlessly - without ever letting up, even while she purported to believe his claim. It just doesn't add up.

You realize that you left out one vital piece of information here? I jumped back on Monkey because he was refusing to claim his flavor. I didn't just jump back on for the sake of jumping on. Way to leave out details in order to make yourself look better.

You say I went after him relentlessly without every letting up. Care to show some evidence of this?

Also, as previously mentioned, Starbuck attempted to self-hammer despite her vanilla townie claim shortly after saying that she would only do so if she was scum. As it turns out, she was wrong about the number of votes required for a lynch, but the fact remains that by her own admission, she thought that she was self-hammering, which she says she would only do as scum. (And in my view, she's right, only scum would do that). After her self-hammer attempt was unsuccessful, backtracking ensued.

I was quite frustrated at that time in the game, and seriously losing my Vanilla Townie self wouldn't have done our town PRs any harm.

My death would have given us information, just as Monkey's death has given us information. Everyone was pushing for information at the time and if my lynch were to give some information to the town, then I've done my job as a VT.

Starbuck also seems to have a habit of throwing votes or FoSes at anyone and everyone who calls anything she says or does into question. This might be more of a null tell than a scum tell, but it's worth looking at, I think, because it seems somewhat frantic on Starbuck's behalf and I don't think anyone but scum would be so frantic. (Long list of individual posts omitted here)

So you can say this, but won't provide the evidence.

Since you are too lazy to do so, I'll give you a history of my votes & FOS's in chronological order

RVS on Brandi
Pressure/Reaction/Attempt to Provoke Discussion Vote on Monkey
FOS on Chamber for his weak vote on Crazy
Vote on Chamber for his whiteknighting of Monkey
Frustration Vote of Myself
Vote on Jazzmyn for barely posting and only posting when it's convienient for her
Vote on Neopi for not coming up with his own case and piggybacking
Putting my Vote back on Neopi after KMD was erased
Vote on Monkey for not claiming his flavor
Unvote Monkey for his flavor making sense with his claim
Vote on Neopi, Lynch All Lurkers
Vote Brandi, after my long case post on her


So while I vote change a lot this game (which is abnormal for me), I have only one FOS. So where out of those was I throwing them at "anyone and everyone who calls anything I say or do into question"? I voted each time for a reason.

You want to call me out on something, but you can't even provide the evidence.

Then she started Day 2 saying that she didn't understand why others were on the Monkey wagon that she herself had started and that she has encouraged right up to the end even when she wasn't on the wagon herself. It strikes me as very scummy for a player to encourage a bandwagon right up to lynching, even though that player is not even on the very wagon that she's encouraging, and then purport the next day to cast suspicion at those who were on the wagon that she encouraged but had personally leapt from. In other words, on Day 2, Starbuck was accusing those on Monkey's wagon of being scummy even though it was she who started the Monkey wagon on Day 1 and she who continued to encourage the Monkey wagon right up until Monkey was lynched, even though Starbuck had removed herself from the wagon shortly before his demise.

Bottom line: Starbuck never stopped poking at Monkey. Quite literally until her very last posts of Day 1, even though she purported to believe his town power role claim, and even though she jumped off, back on, and back off his wagon, she was still gunning for him up until the very end of Day 1.

And then, what did she do at the opening of Day 2? She acted as though nobody should have been on the Monkey wagon that she started, fed constantly, nurtured for 30 pages, and then distanced herself from at the end of Day 1.

I really don't understand why there were still people on Monkey's train at the end of yesterday. I know I threw out the theory of him possibly being the Tramp, but his flavor definitely mirrored his role, no matter how scummy I found him to be acting.

What bothers me are those that didn't switch off of Monkey to Neopi with the fact that his claim made sense.

This just doesn't strike me as credible at all.

Wow, what a twist of my words.

I stated why I didn't understand and you even quoted me here on it. So how is the fact that I found Monkey's claim and flavor credible make me look scummy? Yes, I did push for his lynch, but I didn't push for it after he claimed the flavor. I threw out a theory, but I was pushing for Neopi at the end of Day 1.

Also, I ask again for evidence of my encouragement of the Monkey lynch "throughout all of Day 1" as you accuse me of.

[Starbuck]

I'm pretty sure if Neopi had a safeclaim of some sort. He would have used it.

[Starbuck]

You just voted Gorrad without saying anything about him.

[Starbuck]

My bad,

I'm blind. I apologize. I'm bouncing between this and trying to find tickets home for my great grandmother's memorial service.

[Starbuck]

You are just chock full of flailing and misrepresentations. You are only quoting half of my sentences and chopping off the rest because it doesn't fit with your case!

Care to show some evidence of this?

Sure. Start here

So you can say this, but won't provide the evidence.

You have over 200 posts in this game. The link above is to them, where anyone can read them to see the evidence. It is so voluminous that posting them all individually is far too onerous a task and it is actually easier to just read the entire body of evidence in one place.

Wow, did you really just try to say that I don't know how to read people in iso when you can't even link to it correctly? Seriously get off your high horse and get over yourself.

If you want to make a case on someone (and not this weak one that you are trying to pull off), you PROVIDE the EVIDENCE. I have provided the information from my posts that you are referring to because you keep misrepresenting me. I link directly to the post to show where it came from. You can sit here all day long and point your finger at me, but if you don't provide the evidence ON YOUR OWN, no one is going to listen.



So, why am I starting on page 43 when I asked you for evidence about the following:

Thus began a relentless campaign of Starbuck v. Monkey, which never really ended until Monkey's lynch at the deadline. Even though Starbuck got off of the Monkey wagon when he claimed his power role, she got back on it later, and then jumped off again before he was lynched, but she continued to go after him - relentlessly - without ever letting up, even while she purported to believe his claim. It just doesn't add up.

You realize that you left out one vital piece of information here? I jumped back on Monkey because he was refusing to claim his flavor. I didn't just jump back on for the sake of jumping on. Way to leave out details in order to make yourself look better.

You say I went after him relentlessly without every letting up. Care to show some evidence of this?

I want you to provide SPECIFIC EVIDENCE from Day 1 about this. This proves to me that you are refusing to do so. Refusal to provide information and specific evidence is scummy. You are beating around the bush and flailing horribly.

In addition to those, you also accused Crazy of being scum (your 72).

Starbuck's ISO Post 72

Why would he lie and say that I fakeclaimed when he knows nothing about my role? My guess is that he is scum painting a target on me, and WHEN I flip town. He will be in the spotlight and need to answer for that.

I guess I need to start using sarcasm tags if you seriously believe that this was an accusation.

You also went after Gorrad for "voting Brandi for a ridiculous reason" and trying to "justify his lurking by saying it's part of his playstyle" even though you said you had played with him before and hadn't seen "this playstyle as he puts it" (your 73).

What are you trying to say here? This is most definitely a misrep.

Starbuck's ISO Post 73

Let's look at the whole statements that you convieniently forgot to include:

He never random voted, but votes for Brandi because she agreed with KMD that not random voting is odd. Almost all the games here on MS start with a random vote of some kind,

I don't like that Gorrad would vote Brandi for such a ridiculous reason

, but wouldn't vote KMD for the same thing.

I also don't like how he tries to

justify his lurking via this post and this post. He then says it's part of his gamestyle

(which he states is anti-town) , which I haven't seen before. I've played previous games with Gorrad and I really haven't seen this gamestyle as he so puts it.

So where was I trying to justify his lurking? No where. Why? BECAUSE I WASN'T JUSTIFYING HIS LURKING.

Quit trying to cut and paste things to make yourself look better. Why? Because it's scummy.

You also FoS'd semioldguy (your 204).

Ok, and your point is? He didn't provide a whole case. Are you really jumping on me because I left out one FOS? To make my grand total of FOS's this game to 2. Rather than the 1 billion as you have been trying to elude to?

[Starbuck]

You continued to encourage a Monkey lynch even after his flavour claim. Evidence:
After Monkey claimed his flavour:

Your post 149: you unvote Monkey "for now" - i.e. leaving it open for further re-voting.

Starbuck's ISO Post 149

Your flavor makes sense in accordance with your claim. I really didn't learn anything new about you, but your flavor supports your claim. So I don't understand what was so difficult about that.

Unvote

, for now

I really don't want overzealous townies or scum to quickhammer.

I guess you would feel that way about this since you have such a weak case on me to begin with.

Your post 161: you say that you think Monkey "slipped" when he commented on Neopi's role claim - i.e. suggesting that he is scum.

Starbuck's ISO Post 161

I think I smell a slip here. Monkey's a watcher, and Neopi is a tracker. Hmm.

A watcher/tracker combo, especially after what Neopi had claimed could have definitely been feasible.

Your post 162: you suggest that Monkey is the Tramp - i.e. suggesting that he is scum since he had claimed the role of Peter Pan.

Starbuck's ISO Post 162

It would fall in line that Monkey is the Tramp with his emphasis on "classic" Disney movies.

My statement here is a feasible (and not as scumtastic as you paint it to be) since Tramp & Peter Pan are both "Classic" Disney characters.

And how was I suggesting he was scum since he claimed Peter Pan? I fail to see this. You are grasping at straws.

Your post 163: you again suggest that Monkey is the Tramp - i.e. suggesting that he is scum since he had claimed the role of Peter Pan.

Starbuck's ISO Post 163

Add that Starbuck's trying to tell players how to play and psuedo-threatening them, rather than allow the mod to decide what is or isn't allowed doesn't reek of someone who is trying to decipher information, rather someone that is trying to surpress it.

I don't think I ever told anyone how they should play. You are reaching here.

I can see how what I said earlier about possible modkills could be seen as threatening, but it was not meant to be. I felt like the discussion was turning that direction. So rather than lose a player, I was trying to bring the discussion away from that subject.

I also definitely think that you are reaching by saying that I'm trying to surpress information when I have not. I have freely given answers to ever question asked of me, whereas you have deflected and refused to answer a lot of what has been asked of you.

So explain to me how I was "suggesting he was scum in this post since he claimed Peter Pan" here because I seriously don't see it.

Your post 165: you say that it is a good possibility that Monkey's claim is fake.

Starbuck's ISO Post 165

For how long it took him to actually claim his flavor, I think it's a good possibility.

It WAS a good possibility at the time. It's very easy for you to say (now that Monkey flipped town) that it wasn't, but at the time, when we didn't know his alignment, it was a very good possibility.

Your post 170: you say that you are "either for [lynching] Monkey or Neopi" - i.e. again suggesting that he is scum and that you support his lynch.

Starbuck's ISO Post 170

I'm either for Monkey or Neopi. I definitely think there's a lot that Neopi isn't telling us.

Here you go, only taking half of what I said again.

I said I'm for either, but the fact that I stated that "I definitely think there's a lot that Neopi isn't telling us" should tell you right there that I was more for a Neopi lynch than Monkey.

Your post 173: you say that there are decent cases against Monkey and criticize him for not thinking that they are decent - i.e. suggesting that he is scum.

Starbuck's ISO Post 173

There are decent cases against you, but obviously it doesn't matter what type of case someone brings against you because in your eyes, it will never be decent.

There WERE decent cases against him. He was very scummy for all of Day 1, and I find it hard to believe that you didn't think so.

Your last posts on Day 1 were your posts 174 and 175, both with more back and forth with Monkey.

Starbuck's ISO Post 174

@Yank: Both...and I'll post my defence later, but I think it would be really dumb to lynch a power role without giving them a chance to prove their power.

Why are you putting off your defense for so long? (and in many cases repeatedly) If you are town your defense should be really quick/easy to do because you shouldn't have to make anything up. It helps the town most the sooner you do defend as it gives us all more time to see your response/defense before deadline which is very near.

You're being way too pushy. I have a life outside mafiascum. Stop trying to say that because I'm not doing everything on your terms it somehow makes me scummy.

Wow, this is quite a hypocritical statement, especially because you keep pushing everyone else, but the minute you don't want to give information or have something going on in real life, it's suddenly okay.

Starbuck's ISO Post 175

@Yank: Both...and I'll post my defence later, but I think it would be really dumb to lynch a power role without giving them a chance to prove their power.

Why are you putting off your defense for so long? (and in many cases repeatedly) If you are town your defense should be really quick/easy to do because you shouldn't have to make anything up. It helps the town most the sooner you do defend as it gives us all more time to see your response/defense before deadline which is very near.

You're being way too pushy. I have a life outside mafiascum. Stop trying to say that because I'm not doing everything on your terms it somehow makes me scummy.

Wow, this is quite a hypocritical statement, especially because you keep pushing everyone else, but the minute you don't want to give information or have something going on in real life, it's suddenly okay.

Not really. My complaint on you was you were posting in other games.

Your "complaint" on me was that I am in multiple games and caught up in other games before I got to this one, but as it was said before, as long as I catch up here, it really doesn't matter the order because I still kept posting here.

So your argument is null and void.

He jumped all over me earlier in the game about me being gone for the weekend and having real life go on, but the minute that he had something going on and someone gave him a hard time about it, he threw a temper tantrum. This is why I stated what I stated about him being hypocritical because HE WAS.

Maybe if you were around more often, you would have seen this when it happened.

[Starbuck]

I disagree. The majority of your 200+ posts bear out what I am saying, and anyone who has read the thread can see quite readily that this is so. I am not about to try to post links to all of your posts when it is much easier to just read them in iso for the full picture. If you are seriously trying to suggest that you were not all over Monkey on Day 1 - before, during and after his claim - then I think you're going to have a severe credibility problem.

So you continue to REFUSE TO PROVIDE SPECIFIC EVIDENCE when you were asked for it MULTIPLE TIMES.

It is nothing of the sort. In fact, it appears that either you are feeling very stressed by my accusations or you have a problem with reading for comprehension or you are deliberately misrepresenting what I wrote.

You ARE going out of your way to deliberately misrepresent me, I pointed out quite a number of ways that you did so. Please don't patronize me and tell me that you didn't.

News flash. I did not accuse you of justifying his lurking. I said that you went after him for the quoted reasons: "voting Brandi for a ridiculous reason" and trying to "justify his lurking..." There is no misrepresentation here at all. I cited the reasons for which you were criticizing Gorrad, and I quoted them accurately.

I did misread this part, I apologize. They way it was worded made it seem like you were trying to say that I was justifying him in some way.

Anyways, why so defensive of Gorrad? He has been lurking and he did vote Brandi for a completely ridiculous reason. Are you seriously telling me that you find nothing scummy about Gorrad?

I did no such thing. Are you skim reading and making errors as a result or are you deliberately misrepresenting things? There have been at least a few occasions in this game where you have used your own errors as the basis for accusing others of things that they had not done, to point suspicion at them where it was not warranted. I don't know whether this is due to skim-reading, lack of comprehension, or deliberate misrepresentation, but this isn't the first time you've done it and that adds to my suspicion of you.

With the comprehension and length of my post, are you really thinking that I'm skimming? I type everything up in Notepad.

As I said just above, the way that sentence was worded made it seem to me like you were saying that I was trying to justify Gorrad. Maybe you just need to be a bit clearer, or using the actual SPECIFIC quote tags rather than picking the pieces that you wish to use.

I have made errors, yes, but I haven't denied them. When I have figured out what I did, I have admitted it and apologized, which is something that scum does not do.

My point is as set out in my prior post: that you have gone after almost everyone who ever voted for you, commented negatively on your play or directed suspicion at you (except YankCane).

WELCOME TO THE GAME OF MAFIA! Where if you are a vanilla Townie, you need to be suspicious of EVERYONE.

If I've told you once, I've told you a million times, exaggeration is scummy. [/obvious tag]

Whoa, you are trying to talk to me about exaggeration when you eluded that I had quite a number of FOS's when I really only have 2?

[Starbuck]

Saying that you will unvote someone "for now" is, in my view, leaving open the door to re-vote him later, and your posts after Monkey's flavour claim belie your Day 2 claim that you believed him and backed off of him as soon as he claimed his flavour.

So the fact that Monkey was up my ass all of Day 1 means nothing to you then? It's very easy to defend someone now that they have flipped town, but he wasn't exactly a saint either.

It shouldn't have taken Monkey as long as it did for him to claim his flavor. He was all the way up to L-1 before he claimed it. I didn't feel comfortable having him at L-1 and giving scum the ability to hammer a claimed town PR. So I unvoted him. I wanted to see how the rest of the day played out. Longer days are better for the town.

Why aren't you jumping on the people who didn't get off his lynch after his claim? You think I'm so suspicious for not wanting to lynch a town PR (if I wanted to, my vote would have stayed), but you haven't said anything about all the people who stayed on his lynch after that point.

You are tunneling.

The point is that you suggested he "slipped" - which is suggesting that he is scum.

Suggesting that he was the Tramp when he had claimed Peter Pan is suggesting that he was lying about his role, thus suggesting that he was scum.

He could have slipped, at that point there was more than that one possibility of what actually was going on. What's wrong with trying to bring all of the possibilities to light for the rest of the town? It wasn't a bad theory. I was wrong, and I'm fine with that, but you can't sit here and tell me that it wasn't a possibility. It's really easy of you to come in now (when you were barely around then) and make judgment calls.

I made a typo and wrote 163 there when I meant 164. In 164, you suggested that he was scum by suggesting that he was making up his role and making up his flavour.

I'm not the Tramp, nor am I affiliated with Neopi. Starbuck's interpretation of my supposed slip is way off. I meant that he can only use his power after day 2, I lose my power if we lynch a townie, We are both claiming power roles, and both claiming restrictions on our power.

Neopi is claiming that he doesn't know who the Tramp is. You could very well be the Tramp.

Peter Pan is very commonly known, and I forgot who said it early but words like pixie dust, windows, and happiness are almost synonymous with Peter Pan. You could have easily made up your flavor which is what took you so long to claim it.

And this isn't that far off the wall either. It's not scummy to take in every single possibility or talk about every single possibility.

You seem to be forgetting that the point is that immediately at the beginning of Day 2, you came out saying that you believed Monkey from the moment he claimed his flavour, and you were criticizing everyone who was on the Monkey wagon. As set out previously, all of the foregoing posts that I have cited are pretty compelling evidence that you were not telling the truth.

Never said I believed him from that moment. Again, another misrepresentation.

Starbuck's Post 894

I really don't understand why there were still people on Monkey's train at the end of yesterday. I know I threw out the theory of him possibly being the Tramp, but his flavor definitely mirrored his role, no matter how scummy I found him to be acting.

I wasn't on the Monkey train because Neopi was scummier. So again, why are you jumping all over me about NOT being on his train when there's a pretty scummy person (like Gorrad) who was?

curiouskarmadog brought up a very good point. You seem very trusting of Gorrad and now that I think about it and have been reading back. I can see it too. Strange, how you just let him slip on by.

Again, the point is that you claimed that as soon as Monkey claimed his flavour, you believed him and that nobody should have been on his wagon, but you yourself were open to a Day 1 Monkey lynch even after he had claimed both his role and his flavour.

I didn't claim that, quit misrepresenting me.

He jumped all over me earlier in the game about me being gone for the weekend and having real life go on, but the minute that he had something going on and someone gave him a hard time about it, he threw a temper tantrum. This is why I stated what I stated about him being hypocritical because HE WAS.

Again, you miss the point. The point is that you were still going at him with your last posts of Day 1 despite your claim to have believed him and despite your claim to have backed off of him, and despite your Day 2 criticism of anyone who was on his wagon at the end of Day 1. Your last 2 posts were cited to show that they were, in fact, your last posts of Day 1.

This point had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the game. So how can you logically use this in your case against me?

[Starbuck]

@KK - What was your question? You had some pretty long posts, so I probably missed it.

[Starbuck]

Also, I ask that you not skim. I have debunked more than a few of her accusations. She has failed to provide specific evidence. I have provided the links and direct quotes from the posts that she has referred to and she definitely has misrepresented me more than once.

And, I'm not meaning to be condescending in the least. I capitalize to emphasize. The game of mafia is a heated one, if you can't take the heat, you need to get out of the kitchen. That's my take.

@Starbuck & Jazzmyn: What are your reads on Gorrad?

I find Gorrad to be quite scummy.

Here is my rather short case on him Day 1 since he wasn't posting much.


Gorrad tried to say that he had a case on me and that I needed to read his posts if I wanted to find out the case, so I did in Post 938. Imho, that doesn't constitute a case.

Unvote

[Starbuck]

@Kublai Khan - I went back to re-read your stuff. If I missed something please let me know.

If you thought MonkeyMan576 wasn't the right person to lynch, why were you pressuring him so much?

I really don't feel I was pressuring him. As I said to Jazzmyn, at that point, a watcher/tracker combo could have been a good possibility. I was throwing out what I was thinking because any and all information helps the town. If my idea was far fetched, I expected that it would have been shot down. When really it wasn't until Day 2 when Monkey flipped as his claim.

You also saw that at the end of the day that my vote WAS NOT on Monkey. It was on Neopi, who was the person I found to be the scummiest. I only have one vote and I placed it on the scummiest person in my eyes.

I really don't understand why there were still people on Monkey's train at the end of yesterday. I know I threw out the theory of him possibly being the Tramp, but his flavor definitely mirrored his role, no matter how scummy I found him to be acting.

Why does this Day 2 behavior not jive with this late Day 1 post?

I'm either for Monkey or Neopi. I definitely think there's a lot that Neopi isn't telling us.

I can definitely see how it doesn't jive, but my vote stayed on Neopi. There's so much focus on me NOT voting for Monkey that there is no focus on the people who actually WERE. Or the person who made it so he was the Day 1 lynch. We had a 3 way tie going for awhile.

[Starbuck]

Hey, Gorrad, the last post where you told us your thoughts about anything was #939, and that's me being lenient on you. Are you really that far behind?

Yes.

Wait... You've been in the game from the start and the replacements (curiouskarmadog & I) are waiting on *you* to get caught up?

QFT.

This makes me feel like you really are just floating along.

Vote: Gorrad

[Starbuck]

Hey, Gorrad, the last post where you told us your thoughts about anything was #939, and that's me being lenient on you. Are you really that far behind?

Yes.

Wait... You've been in the game from the start and the replacements (curiouskarmadog & I) are waiting on *you* to get caught up?

QFT.

This makes me feel like you really are just floating along.

Vote: Gorrad

Hold on now, you have to explain to me how that's scummy. I'm not lurking, I'm genuinely behind. It's not like I'm seeing everything and just not commenting, I'm just busy as sin.

Everyone else that was floating along has been replaced. You've had ample time. The replacements caught up 40 something pages before you came back to the thread.

Also, you said that you had a case on me. I went back and read and found that you really didn't.

You are lurking and being very anti-town. You have been scummy and there's no denying that.

I feel you are the best lynch for today.

[Starbuck]

So the fact that I missed your questions because you had a super long post but answered them as soon as you made mention, gives me no merit in your eyes then?

I didn't refuse to answer them as you are eluding to.

[Starbuck]

So, you aren't ready to vote for Gorrad or Jazz because of her "reveal" which could definitely be a scum gambit. You have townie feelings about SC and curiouskarmadog, but you say nothing about Crazy.

So why myself over Crazy?

You give no reasoning for your vote on me.

[Starbuck]

I also don't like how Jazz is quite threatening with her post. My vote will remain unless Gorrad comes in to defend himself.

[Starbuck]

I've already claimed and I will reiterate it once more.

Buzz Lightyear, Vanilla Townie.

[Starbuck]

I've already claimed and I will reiterate it once more.

Buzz Lightyear, Vanilla Townie.

do I sense hostility? How do we know your role hasnt changed?

What hostility? You are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill here.

I was reiterating it to bring it up to this page.

[Starbuck]

Second, what happened to you Starbuck? Ignoring that we didn't know that LlamaFluff would be strict about the dealine... with no one else around we could have shifted the lynch to Jazzmyn instead of a power role.

I do have a life and was out for the day making preparations for my trip to the States (which is where I am now). My bad that I wasn't sitting in front of my computer all day.

The better question is why are you jumping all over me about not moving my vote when you never moved yours?

I'm down with a massclaim. Popcorn is always best. I guess Starbuck should pick who starts since she's already claimed.

I'd like curiouskarmadog to claim next.

[Starbuck]

The better question is why are you jumping all over me about not moving my vote when you never moved yours?

What do you mean I "never moved my vote"? Posts 1150, 1151, 1154 (This page!) disagree with you.

But the very last vote count found here makes those posts null and void.

Our mod stated in the post I linked that deadline had come two hours earlier. Your vote switches to me and to Jazzmyn happened after the deadline.

[Starbuck]

comments, like "Ive already claimed" and "once more" dont seem "put off" to you?...not saying it is scummy, but it is hostile, you still disagree?

I do still disagree. I was one of 3 people who claimed Day 1. I reiterated because we have replacements (like yourself) who weren't around then, and I wanted it to be made known that I have claimed already. The people who have been here since the start of the game know that I have claimed. It was more as a reminder for you guys as replacements. I wasn't being hostile at all. You are the one who is trying to paint me as being hostile when I'm not trying to be so.

@Jazzmyn
please answer mine and Kahn's question along with your claim. Also, why didn't you make that post at the end of the day any earlier? Since apparently you've known for a long time, withholding that until it is essentially too late makes little sense to me. You could have given the town more than a mere two hours I'd think.

QFT. Waiting that long, till as semioldguy said, mere hours before the deadline in my eyes is extremely antitown. It's been known for awhile that Gorrad was a suspicion of almost everyone, why did you wait so long? It seems to me like you wanted to try and catch the people who were still on his lynch, and it was very opportunistic for you because you can use the argument that "Oh I told you, but you never moved your vote!".

[Starbuck]

You had 40 something pages to read. You definitely could have missed where I claimed. This isn't as big of a deal as you are making it out to be.

FOS: curiouskarmadog

For making mountains out of mole hills and overreacting to things that shoudn't be overreacted to

[Starbuck]

@curiouskarmadog - Why are you insinuating that I've refused to read that? Where, in anyway, am I OMGUS FOSing you? I FOS'd you because since the start of this day you have been misrepresenting what I mean and insinuating that I meant something in a certain way when I didn't mean it in that way at all. I'm still not being hostile. I've been explaining myself over and over again because you wanted to paint me in a certain light that I was not trying to be.

so i assume you read my post, and "again" your should know that I knew about you claim..so how about you answer my questions now and quit trying to side step them with a FOS..please.

You had 40 something pages to read. You definitely

could

have missed where I claimed. This isn't as big of a deal as you are making it out to be.

I never said that you did miss it. Also, you aren't the only replacement, so why are you trying to act like my reiteration was just for you personally when it wasn't? The others COULD have missed it or had forgotten by the time they got through 40 pages. I only was trying to help by reminding that I have already claimed, but you want to make this into a huge deal when it really is not.

so i assume you read my post, and "again" your should know that I knew about you claim..so how about you answer my questions now and quit trying to side step them with a FOS..please.

please dont avoid my questions again.

1.

How is me calling you hostile, but not scummy......scummy? I actually didnt think the post was that scummy....just merely said it rubbed me wrong....but you want to make something out of it.

2.

what are my devious plans for calling you hostile?

3.

also, who was the "hostile" post directed at? KK mentioned that you claimed and I mentioned that you claimed. You say you said it because of the replacements...who?

4.

why didnt you answer my questions the first time?

5.

Why just an FOS, if you think I am scummy, why not a vote?...

I don't like your threatening tone here AT ALL and you are seriously overreacting.

I wasn't trying to sidestep anything and I really didn't want this to be a big deal. Since I already had previously claimed, I just brought it back up to the forefront to kick off the massclaim.

1. You said you read me as being hostile and I told you that it wasn't my intention and I've repeated that multiple times and you still keep trying to paint me in that light. I never said that you calling me "hostile, but not scummy" was scummy. What I said that was scummy about you was that you were overreacting and misrepresenting me.

2. I don't know what your devious plans could be. I'm not inside your head nor do I know your alignment. Since I do not know your alignment and the fact that you are attacking me over something so small. You could be scum trying to coerce a quicklynch by doing just what you are doing.

3. It was directed at everyone in general. It was moreso for you and KK, but this game did stall for quite a bit. People were V/LA, we got replacements in, etc. A reminder that I already claimed shouldn't be this big deal that you are making it to be. Please also remember that for the past week or so I have been doing nothing but packing and getting ready to fly home from Sicily to Connecticut. I am in Connecticut now and helping my family prepare for my Great Grandmother's memorial service which is tomorrow. I merely only wanted to remind everyone that I had already claimed.

4. Because I already had done so previously. The only thing that bothered me about you was that you have been misrepresenting me as being hostile when I wasn't doing so. And it would be a post like this where the same phrases are repeated over and over again because it is the only thing that bothered me about how you have been.

5. I really don't find you scummy, but I'm tired of you being all over my ass about something when I've explained myself multiple times. We have scum and a probable SK out there that we need to be looking for and not this distraction from the game.

all you had to say was, "no, my role hasnt changed"...instead, you want to put my question in a bad light, but saying "I am making a mountian out of a mole hill"...which was bullshit...I wasnt...I just wanted to know where all the attitude was coming from.

But there was no attitude. You said that you sensed hostility and now attitude where there was none.


So can we get back on track now? Jazz is V/LA. So in the mean time, I feel that you need to pick someone else who isn't V/LA to claim next to keep the game moving. I know what you said in 1186, but I really feel that is a cop out and that we need to keep things moving.

[Starbuck]

Yesterday was my Great Grandmother's memorial service. I was not around at all. My signature does say semi-V/LA while I am home visiting the States and I really loathe being prodded when I have not been inactive even while I have things going on.

[Starbuck]

I don't know about curiouskarmadog, but Crazy has been saying for awhile that he finds me to be town because of my claim. I haven't looked back on him in iso yet, but if I find something I'll link to it.

[Starbuck]

What do you mean?

[Starbuck]

Well, it's a generally understood meta-fact that all vanilla claims at L-1 are lynched. The only time that scum can claim vanilla townie and get away with it is to claim earlier than L-1 (say L-3) then immediately make an excuse as to why they claimed so early ("forgot the number to lynch... again!") or they can claim vanilla townie during a mass claim.

You've done both, Starbuck. The first one I was kinda letting slide (though it nagged at me), but the second is rubbing it in a little.

I did make a mistake because I had replaced into quite a number of Newbie games at the time and the Day 1 "# to lynch" is 5 in Newbie games because they only have 9 players rather than the Mini's 12. So I did think I was at L-1, I can't refute this. If you think that pushing for my lynch is beneficial, go right ahead. I'm only a Vanilla Townie. Hell, I wish I had some way to steer this game other than my personal opinion, but I do not.

But how could I have done both? I had already claimed prior to massclaim ever being brought up, and all I did was reiterate what I originally said.

[Starbuck]

What on earth are you talking about with the claim thing?

Mass claim would make no difference to me because I already had claimed. Was I supposed to deny that I had already claimed or restate that I already claimed? I really don't get where you are going with this.

[Starbuck]

LOL, I wish I had some type of control of this game, but I don't. That's what has made things so frustrating.

[Starbuck]

We already had a limited watcher die and flip town. I'm a bit skeptical about your claim.

[Starbuck]

in reference to KK's claim, Brandi does come out voting Neo, Day 2....anyway, i gots to sleep...I need to really go over this with a clear head.

Why couldn't she have been bussing?

It's really easy for KK to say that even if that didn't happen.

[Starbuck]

According to Godfather, they usually appear innocent to cops and are usually immune to being NK'd. Nothing about being tracked.

[Starbuck]

in reference to KK's claim, Brandi does come out voting Neo, Day 2....anyway, i gots to sleep...I need to really go over this with a clear head.

Why couldn't she have been bussing?

It's really easy for KK to say that even if that didn't happen.

i have wirtten you off as mafia, because of your interaction with Neo....should I take that back too? Of course, anything is possible...but I think it is doubtful.


also, KK, I am not a vig anymore...just the double voter.

So if you have written me off as scum, why are you not voting for me?

[Starbuck]

in reference to KK's claim, Brandi does come out voting Neo, Day 2....anyway, i gots to sleep...I need to really go over this with a clear head.

Why couldn't she have been bussing?

It's really easy for KK to say that even if that didn't happen.

i have wirtten you off as mafia, because of your interaction with Neo....should I take that back too? Of course, anything is possible...but I think it is doubtful.


also, KK, I am not a vig anymore...just the double voter.

So if you have written me off as scum, why are you not voting for me?

I have no clue what you are saying here...but this might help

1.) mafia can be scum, but not all the times scum is mafia...all I said is I have written you off as mafia, but you still can be the SK (in my mind).

2.) "written you off" means "taking off the list"...meaning, I dont think you are mafia.

that being said, the question still stands.

I have "taking you off the list" for being mafia, should I reconsider? Couldnt your interaction with Neo be a distancing manvuer?

I misunderstood you. I thought you said that you felt without a doubt that I was scum, so I was wondering if you felt that way, why weren't you voting for me.

I'm jet lagged and pretty exhausted at the moment after a long day in NYC yesterday, my apologies.

[Starbuck]

I'm thinking and have been thinking for awhile that Kublai Khan is scum. My reasonings go back to when Brandi was in that role. My second would be Jazzmyn.

[Starbuck]

Nice OMGUS on both myself and Semioldguy.

Vote: Kublai Khan

I feel secure in this vote.

[Starbuck]

Nice overreaction. I also love your ad hom attacks towards me. BTW, ad hom = scummy.

I'm not flailing as you accuse me of. Brandi was plenty scummy before she left this game. You filled the slot. The person may have changed, but whatever the role is, did not. I tried to give you a chance and at first, you may have had me. You no longer do. You could easily be (and probably are) distancing from your other scum partner. You are the person I find to be the scummiest, and that's where my vote needs to be.

You are falsely mistaken if you think my lynch will give the town scum.

[Starbuck]

LOL, I'm guessing you didn't read below that where he said he mistyped and the whole reason why he thinks I'm town is because of my claim.

[Starbuck]

@KK -

In 1259, you stated:

"Do you even know what OMGUS means? Do you even know how it implies scumminess?"

which implies to me that you don't believe I know what I am talking about, which is an attack of person.

Please refer to Attack the Person. Ad hom is not only attacking the person, but it is also about bringing up irrelevant information/arguments. Also, the part that fits the most here for me is the Circumstantial type. You are implying/arguing that I don't know what I am talking about and therefore can use that to base a case on me. You are saying such things because you can gain something from this (in this case, another town lynch), and put you closer to victory.

[Starbuck]

I'm really reaching and overdefensive? Have you read any of your posts, especially your last one? Because I'm in no way being overdefensive or appealing to emotion as you allude to. I don't feel that I'm reaching, but there you go trying to paint me in a light that looks good on you, yet again.

This is mafia. You are right. If you can't take the heat, ya need to get out of kitchen.

But the other part of mafia is not doing what you have been doing which is misrepresenting me, attacking me via ad hom, and doing the exact things that you are accusing me of, such as reaching and grasping for straws.

[Starbuck]

You realize that you've been tunneling on me all game. There's no way that anyone else can be scum other than me according to you.

How can I be more at fault for Monkey's lynch at the end of the day than the people who were still on his train? How in the hell does that make sense at all?

FOS: Jazzmyn

[Starbuck]

Nice to see that I was right about who was scum.

[Starbuck]

Except that you called every single player in the game (other than yourself and maybe YankCane) scum during the game, which kind of negates you being "right" about it.



Regards,
Jazz

No, my top two picks for scum were yourself and Brandi, and I was right.

Gorrad WAS scummy, and semioldguy, I had a pro-town feel on.


So if you need to keep telling yourself the above to make yourself sleep better at night do so, but you don't know what I think, you aren't in my brain, and I would appreciate it if you would stop acting like you are.

[Starbuck]

Llama,

The only thing I have to say for the game itself is that having an SK killing off most of the town, not having a scum goon made things a bit overpowered. I'm not sure that with Crazy still alive and the two scum that the town even stood a chance.

[Starbuck]

I know that the godfather was essentially a goon, but I really don't think town stood a chance against those overpowered roles.

[Starbuck]

The activity of this scumgroup really disappointed me.

While yes, you guys did win, but you did it by lurking and that's definitely against the spirit of the game in my eyes. I know Jazzmyn had a death in the family, but I did too. I'm still home in Connecticut currently, gonna be flying back to Sicily tomorrow.

[Starbuck]

I see some things were edited in the QT because they may have been offensive towards myself. The rules of Mafiascum extend to the QTs, and I would hope players know this.

But a little known fact about me is that when I'm a VT, I really don't care. I'll throw out that off the wall theory, I'll do my best to try and help my town get a win, and if I can be spot on enough to figure out the scum then maybe I can draw an NK to myself and have scum worried that I'm really not a VT. I know that my death will save a potential town PR.

[Starbuck]

For one, Kublai, I definitely wasn't talking about you when it comes to lurking. I'm also not trying to be a sore loser, but lurking is against the spirit of the game. When you join a game, you are supposed to be active. You make that commitment prior to whatever role you receive in your inbox.

Also, I've never seen a game where the scum QT wasn't made public after the fact. Why would you guys want to hide it?

[Starbuck]

I also feel that if someone has a problem with my play, tell me what you didn't like. Tell me what I can do to get better. Give me constructive criticism rather than be insulting. I go out of my way to try to not offend anyone, but this is mafia, and you always end up offending someone whether you mean to or not.

[Starbuck]

The whole Day 1 thing with Monkey got way out of hand. It didn't help that others were instigating and pushing it along either.


See, I feel I'm honest, I don't beat around the bush. This is the first time I have ever in my life been called abrasive. I don't feel I am.

[Starbuck]

Jazzmyn, it's more Brandi and Neopi with the lurking than you. I understand your situation because I was dealing with the exact same thing. Personally, my great-grandmother RAISED me, I was closer to her than I am to my mother, so to even try and say that it's different offends me.

Wow, Jazzmyn, I definitely don't feel the same about you. I enjoyed playing with you. It's unfortunate that you haven't played with me in other games and will refuse to in the future.

It saddens me that you can't let the heat of a mafia game go.