I'll read up tomorrow morning, and get posting.
Mini 852- Crayola Catastrophe Game Over (Post 1158)
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Hello again!
Please nobody kill me again before I get to post actual content.
I only skimmed half the game, not taking notes, since I wasn't sure I would see morning. Luckily, I have been reincarnated as dark red. So now I have to pay a bit more attention to the game. I will post thoughts later today.
Pretty sure from the above post that Shanba is scum though. Buddies to chamber, affirms that SoG wagon was good except for the end because he wants to blame budja and chibo. And then connects me to budja because budja didn't agree with an attack on me... some BS reasoning that since the attack was weak, we are likely scum together? Why assume we're scum, rather than , oh say, budja saw weak reasoning and disagreed with it?
Shanba's brand of reasoning is divisive, discouraging town from picking on a bad attack lest they be accused of being scum buddies. If Shanba agrees that it was a weak attack against me, then what Budja did was perfectly natural.
And if me and Budja are so scummy together, why is he voting Chibo?
I call shenanigans.
I also think that discussing scum buddies TOO much is a scum tactic. Noticing relationships between players is a good thing, but noticing a connection between two players should not be the basis for thinking they're both scum. It is simply not enough and too open to manipulation. Possible scum connections should only be supporting evidence, until such time as somebody flips scum. That is the only time that we should get too far into scum buddy talk, when we have something concrete. Otherwise it is a fallacy.
Oh, and BTW, Shanba replaced snowbunny who hammered instead of allowing me to play the game as manzcar. Didn't want a replacement coming in and changing the lynch, did she? Not when she knew the lynch was not on any of the scum team. Push that baby through and NK me... much easier for them.
And another thing, did anyone else notice how Shanba blames the end of the lynch, conveniently not mentioning his part in it, how snowbunny's hammer was probably the worst vote of them all?
Man, I found so many reasons to vote Shanba, and I haven't even read through the thread closely.
I guess I will hold off my vote until I finish the read, but... I'm pretty sure SHANBA IS SCUM.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Chamber was replaced but the player slot is not dead. If you're saying chamber wagon was bad and he's town, then you're saying zazie is town too.
If you are a fan of people defending each other what makes budja commenting on an attack on me a scummy thing? I'm sure there are lots of other instances throughout the game of people doing similar things. So what makes this one worthy of comment and condemnation above all others?
I agree you only mentioned the one horrible argument about scum buddies. Is that "too much"? You decide.
I was more thinking that I didn't like your comments because of this part of my arguments:me! wrote:noticing a connection between two players should not be the basis for thinking they're both scumTalk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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People don't claim unless they're about to be lynched. Asking him to is scummy. Even if I do think Shanba's scummy, this is wrong.ChiboSempai wrote: Since you're declaring yourself as a townie here, mind telling us which one?
Congratulations, you have now made me think maybe Shanba is town.Talk nerdy to me.
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ChiboSempai wrote:Since you're declaring yourself as a townie here, mind telling us which one?People don't claim unless they're about to be lynched. Asking him to is scummy. Even if I do think Shanba's scummy, this is wrong..
Congratulations, you have now made me think maybe Shanba is townTalk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Well, I hate that now I am in the position to defend Shanba...
But WTF do you expect him to to? Whether he knows he's town or he has to pretend to know he's town, of course he will blame snowbunny's actions on her and not her role. And there's only so much a replacement can do to explain their predecessor's actions.Talk nerdy to me.
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Pomegranate wrote:I agree with EK in that this was not necessary, and also a bit scummy, but I don't like her last sentence. Why do you think this, EK?I don't think shanba is obvtown or anything. But the fact that chibo seems to be rolefishing hard makes me think shanbamaybe town. You know, that he's the victim of rolefishing-scum-chibo.Talk nerdy to me.
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Shanba in either of those situations I probably ignore my scum buddy. But maybe that's just me. Well, I might buss my buddy in scenario where it's a good case, and ignore the whole thing in a weak case. Why leave a trail when the case probably amounts to nothing?
However, this is largely WIFOM.
I think I need to read the whole game in order to be sure what I think.
Shanba wrote:I agree you only mentioned the one horrible argument about scum buddies. Is that "too much"? You decide.1) it's not a horrible argument. I've given my side of this, you have yet to give yours. Please do so.
2) it's not the only reason I suspect these players.What do you mean I haven't given my side? Didn't this start with my side... What is it you need me to explain?
It seemed like a substantial part of your case to me. The only other part of your case being that they helped lynch a jester. Which you also did, BTW.
Also, I didn't.
I'm not sure what you dislike about joshlyman, so it seemed like you were condemning me based on budja defending me slightly. And you were saying he was scum for helping lynch a jester. If I'm misunderstanding this, let me know.
Shanba wrote:
And everyone else is either riding EK's coattails or referencing the hammer. I'd like everyone to have more suspicions than just me even if I do get lynched today, so that there's some room for some actual analysis. Top 2 scummiest players please, everyone.This is a good idea. We should be thinking about everyone in the game.Talk nerdy to me.
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DAMMIT I was typing up my big readup post and pressed back to look at the last page and lost it.
REwrite...
Scummy:
Pome
*Generally does nothing, her posts amount to active lurking as she says nothing in them
*Scum list in post 209 was one big waffle of unhelpfullness
*She stays in RVS until post 109 when she unvotes but doesn't place a real vote. That type of post has a name. It's called "Most useless post ever."
*Then she doesn't place a vote until her big waffle scum list in 209 where she votes SoG. Which is not an impressive vote to me. It's not like voting SoG was going out on a limb.
*I disliked post 45 because she says kirby was "twisting her words" when it really looked to me like a typo to me even before kirby said it was a typo.
Budja
*Guy is on every bandwagon, and in a scummy way, like he's taking the easy way out and voting easy targets. Page 1 greendude racism wagon. Chamber hatewagon. SoG jesterwagon. He gets on these easy wagons without even doing any hard work or attacking.
*Also he said "null" on Pome's horrible waffle scumlist post.
Neutral/conflicted:
Shanba
*SB lurktastic then ISO's SoG to make vote. Like she wasn't reading the game, only ISOed SoG to make a case cause she wanted to vote him.
*SB hammer was bad, but I see now could have been accidental. Although trying to blame chibo is pretty scummy. I dislike the fact that SB ISOed SoG with the intent of voting him. That's the scummiest part of the whole thing (since the hammer was perhaps accidental).
*However, the fact that he said he didn't think Chibo was rolefishing last page, when IMO chibo was, and Shanba could have easily agreed to strengthen his case... seems like something scum would not do. It makes me rethink. I think that atleast some of the stuff flying at shanba is crap, which makes me reevaluate.
Zazie
*I had a town read on chamber and know him as a player. I have no problem with his playstyle and found him consistent.
*Some of the things zazie said I don't agree with, I wasn't particularly in agreement with his scumlist in post160.
*Zazie spearheaded the SoG wagon, which I guess could mean anything, but it did steer the town toward a non-scum lynch.
*Called the scumteam as Sog (no), Pome (I think yes), and manzcar (no)
*Harped on Joshlyman because he called his RVS vote "semi" random.
*I've played in a number of games with zazie recently and always get the uber-lurker zazie. I have seen him do the spamfest participation in other games but never experienced it until now. I don't understand why zazie is so different in some games -- zazie, can you explain why you either lurk to replacement or go into spam overdrive? I don't understand.
Chibo
*Fourth vote on the page 1 greendude racist bandwagon, unvotes when people call him a hypocrite. Nobody seemed to care that he put a fourth vote on while copying everyone's reason of "yellow too hard to read." This just struck me as opportunist newb scum.
*Pushed to lynch chamber rather than give replacement a chance, which I find scummy, but I got the feeling that he wanted to do it because he really thought that chamber was scum and knew the allignment carries over... not because of the policy lynch thing.
*I just generally get the feeling that he believes what he's saying and not trying to trump stuff up, even though I find myself disagreeing with him a lot. Maybe like he's just inexperienced?
*This is basically my gut does not agree with my brain on him, so I have him neutral.
Town
Sociopath
kirby
nacho - 257 was so right on it's not funny, sadly he backs off this quickly
greendude
My town people are not OMG-I'M-SO-SURE reads, and some not even for such specific reason. They are basically people who have not pinged my scumdar, or that I have a gut town read on them for some reason. If anyone wants me to elaborate, I can try.
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This may be useless speculation, but I'm wondering what people think...
Do people think scum or town are more likely to want to lynch the jester?
Do you think SoG was acting like a jester? I actually thought he was town for a long time (lol). Certain things he did I consider scummy, like not wanting policy lynches and then going for one on zazie. But otherwise I thought he sounded sort of reasonable, atleast in the earlier posts.
What was SoG's strategy?
(I guess what I am wondering is if it was his strategy to try to attack scum and elicit their attack that way, as a defense of themselves, but also of their buddies).
Perhaps we can't ever know any of this until endgame when we ask him, but it's just something I was thinking about, watching the dynamics of how his lynch went down.
If this is stupid, we don't want to waste too much time on it, but I just wanted to throw it out there in case it could be helpful.
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Pomegranate wrote:EK wrote:Pome
*Generally does nothing, her posts amount to active lurking as she says nothing in them
*Scum list in post 209 was one big waffle of unhelpfullness
*She stays in RVS until post 109 when she unvotes but doesn't place a real vote. That type of post has a name. It's called "Most useless post ever."
*Then she doesn't place a vote until her big waffle scum list in 209 where she votes SoG. Which is not an impressive vote to me. It's not like voting SoG was going out on a limb.
*I disliked post 45 because she says kirby was "twisting her words" when it really looked to me like a typo to me even before kirby said it was a typo.
*I generally lurk as town. In the one game where I was scum,( Mini 844,) I was fairly active compared with my normal meta. It's the way I play the game.
*I'm sorry you saw it that way.
*I forgot to unvote; I even mentioned in that post that I forgot about my RV, so I don't see what you're criticizing.
*Wait, so I'm not allowed to vote for someone I see as scummy, even if there is a wagon on him? Moreover, there was nothing wrong with everyone else's vote, yet there was a problem with mine?
*Well, he based a somewhat random vote based off of it, so I thought he'd looked at it correctly. Also, I knew it was likely it was a typo, and that's why I asked him. I didn't mean to accuse him; I wanted him to clarify that he hadn't twisted my words.SO who do you think is scum now?
Most of my points just go to one thing -- you are not scum hunting. So while you may have individual excuses for some of it, I just want to tell you that it doesn't seem like you are trying to find scum, IMO. Overall, I don't think you're doing it.
Please tell me who you think is scum, as this could possibly make me rethink my assessment of you.Talk nerdy to me.
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ChiboSempai wrote:Nachomamma8 wrote:
So you would recommend to the town to lynch you immediately if Shanba turns up pro-town, right? If not, why not. Being that confident in scum or not-scum suggests something more than just a vanilla townie.
Gotta trust in how you play the game right? Sure, I'm game. Go for it. I'm just a vanilla townie but I'm confident that I've nailed a scum player here.
I think chibo is telling the truth.
However, please don't claim like this in the future.
I know nacho sort of goaded you into it, but it's not usually so good for the town to claim when you're not being run up to a lynch. It helps scum find power roles if they can narrow the field.
BTW, slight role-fishing tingles from nacho.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Um I tend to believe Chibo because there was no benefit to him doing that as scum, IMO. I just know when I'm scum that I want to leave myself as open-ended as possible so that I can claim whatever I need to if things happen. I wouldn't want to commit to a claim unless I was forced to. Unless it's some kind of gambit, but I don't know what kind of gambit would involve claiming vanilla.
Basically his claim and reasoning are consistent. He thinks the snowbunny hammer guarantees us that shanba is scum. And he's too new to realize that "guarantee" makes most of us think of investigation and power roles.
This is not to say that I wouldn't challenge chibo if he said or did something I thought was scummy, but for now I tentatively believe him.
Nacho, why don't you believe him? Do you think he is scummy? If so, what are the reasons? Is it because of his claim, or other reasons?
In other news, Budja is still scum. He hid on easy wagons all D1, and the only original thought he's had all game is voting kirbyoshi, and I think kirby is town.
If Pome can do some scum hunting I'd like to move my vote to Budja.
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ZazieR wrote:Shanba wrote:
zazie is right about just about everything, but some of his lines of enquiry are pretty pointless (like asking green_dude if he really wanted his colour changed - I'm pretty sure he did!) In particular, though, I wanted to try and explain his attack on josh_lyman since I think he hasn't been entirely clear there: Josh's vote is for lurking, which josh explains as a jokevote - but in his post he says that it is only semi-random - which indicates that it can't be entirely random. I don't think this in and of itself is significant, but I do think the amount of time Josh spent debating on this and not talking about other, more important things is scummy.My reason for asking GD that question wasn't to ask IF he asked the mod that, but WHY he asked the mod that question. The IF question was only asked as 'side track question'.
As for the part regarding Josh, it was because of the 'semi-'. As already stated, it was the first day it had started and Josh was the one who was almost last. Only the one who he voted posted later than Josh. Add that he hasn't pursued any other lurker that day, while stating he hates them. Those are the reasons why I don't like this vote.
As for your scum list, I say Josh (Now EK) and Pome in the scumteam. The third is one of the other three players you've mentioned.I'm not following you zazie...
So what was the point of asking GD WHY he asked the mod if he could change his color? What would this indicate to you either way?
And I still don't understand the "semi" part and why you objected to it and josh lyman. And what have you thought of me since I joined? I've been much more active since taking over the player slot, so that should make it easier for you to judge allignment.
Also, I asked you why you are very active in some games and lurk hardcore in others. Can you explain?Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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zazie, your posting is really rubbing me the wrong way how you seem to ask about stuff that is in some cases seems really obvious, and in others seems completely inconsequential.
It's making me not even want to answer anything that you've written because I have to sift through so much stupid stuff.Talk nerdy to me.
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Shanba, I thought you were scum at first but changed my mind. I really don't think you would saying "Chibo's not rolefishing" or "Don't hold chibo responsible for my lynch when I flip town" if you were scum. It would be totally easy for you to bury Chibo, or atleast throw some doubt his way, but you're not doing that. And I sure as hell would if I were you and I were scum.
I really want to turn your budja vote into a wagon but pome still isn't scum hunting so I can't unvote herTalk nerdy to me.
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Maybe Shanba is some devil of deception but I don't normally see scum accuse town of buddying to them.
I mean, when I'm scum I just thank God that I got a townie to agree with me and I let them do it all day long. I certainly don't discourage that behavior.Talk nerdy to me.
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Pome, good job! I really like that list.
I'm sure I should care about reasons, like nacho just said, but I'm really just excited because it seems very reasonable.
unvote Pome, vote budjaTalk nerdy to me.
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Okay.
I just don't want us to lose momentum in this game. It's good to be careful, but it's bad to sit around and do nothing. And I mean that as a general statement to everyone.Talk nerdy to me.
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Nachomamma8 wrote:Just got prodded, but don't have any earth shattering things to post. Mainly waiting for Greeny and Zazie to do their catch up posts.
Why aren't you voting anyone?Talk nerdy to me.
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Nachomamma8 wrote:Because, as of now, no one seems scummy enough to warrant my vote. Budja is my top subject, but he hasn't even replaced in yet. And before you ask why I find him scummy, it's because he was scumhunting less than everyone else in the game, and when he voted, it was always after someone else had voted for that same person, and he never actually added anything to the cases other people made, so it seemed to me like he was just trying to skate along...Look, being all careful and not lynching people before replacement is probably a good idea. But we can't have people sitting around, not voting, and just checking in to say "hey i've got nothing to say."
Failure to scum hunt is usually a sign of scumminess, but a lot of people are doing it this game which makes it harder to find the scum. So if everyone who is town could get their asses in gear and start giving their opinions and pressuring who they think is scum, that would make things much easier. It will force the scum to post more too which will increase our chances of catching them in lies/manipulation/misdirection. Or if they continue to post little content we can lynch them for that too. Either way works for me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Yeah I thought he was joking around about that. I mean, I understand if he gets better reads when people make attacks on him, but I don't know how you can ask people to make cases on you. If they don't think you're scum, do you want them to make stuff up? And if they make stuff up how are you going to be able to get a good read off that? I don't really get it, if it wasn't a joke.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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This is the weirdest thing I've ever heard of, and I weirdly think I'm buddying to you more now by humoring you than I was before. But here is my case on you:
Some exchanges with kirby and pome early in the game that were sort of useless joking or maybe buddying.
Wagoning chamber just because he has a non-standard playstyle. Which amounts to a policy lynch. Which is scummy. I also didn't like how you got mad at him for posting after asking for replacement. You said it might be a violation of site guidelines, which don't think it is. It seemed like you just wanted him gone from the game.
One of the things you said about SoG early was that he "went straight into scum hunting." Like that's a bad thing. I think that's a good thing -- to go straight into scum hunting.
Continuing to give Pome a break for no apparent reason. When she explains she has school and VLA issues you pipe up to commiserate how hard it is to post with school and such. WAH! Buddying to Pome.
Pulling the newbie card for chibo.
Those are the things I don't like about you despite my mostly pro-twon read of you. You've got to take everything into account, but those are the things I don't agree with.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Chibo, you bring up snow bunny...
I noticed snowbunny is still on the site, playing in at least one other game.
I really don't know what I think of it. Basically I guess she got scared and ran away since she hammered at sort of a bad time and people gave her crap for it before lynch scene was even up.
But was she scared because she looked scummy and she's scum? Or because she looked scummy and she's not scum? I really hate when people replace out as scum for the sole reason that they are caught scum, and it's pretty much against the spirit of the game and I hope the mod wouldn't allow that. But if she gave him another excuse, what's he gonna do? I guess he could modkill her, but who knows what he would do? I have played before with a scumbuddy who asked to be replaced because he was under attack, and I knew that was his reason because I was his buddy, and I lynched him for it because I just don't think it's fair for people to do that.
I was sort of hoping that snowbunny got scared because she's not scum, especially since shanba has said some things I think are inconsistent with scum behavior.
But overall, I really don't know. I keep thinking about it, but I haven't come up with anything great.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Bleh I saw snowbunny posting in like three games this morning...
If she did replace out because she was caught scum, that's horrible. I'd like to think a person wouldn't do that in the spirit of fair play, but perhaps I'm being naive. I mean, I have seen it before as I said, but I don't like to believe that many people would stoop so low.
I don't think the slip you quoted above is a slip though. How would Shanba have worded it differently? I think he would say it that way if he was town or scum.
If I believe snow bunny is scum I guess I have to believe that all the things that Shanba said to make me think he's town were said on purpose, or that I just took them the wrong way.
Oh, one more thing, chibo, you said that you put the vote on SoG to see if snow bunny would hammer. Which is sort of like you setting a trap for her. And I generally don't like traps and think most of the time scum are the ones who set traps. So that is another complication for me.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I'm still conflicted. Shanba has said some things that are sort of like town-tells for me. Am I sure about that? No. But it makes me reluctant to vote him.
However, snowbunny was scummy. Primarily because she used an iso read of SoG to vote him in the first place. Doing an iso read of a player because people are voitng him and looking for ways for him to be scum is pretty biased. It's like you're going in with the intent of finding dirt (which you can on anybody), and you're doing it because other people are already voting the guy (so the idea doesn't come from you... you're just climbing onto their suspicions wihtout thinking for yourself).
Also the hammer was bad because I had just replaced in and it didn't give me a chance to read, so that was anti-town.
But I'm not sure how I feel about how everyone jumped on her BEFORE finding out he wasn't scum. I mean, if SoG had flipped scum, then there wouldn't be that much cause to be mad at snowbunny (still not allowing me to read and post was slightly anti-town, but I bet nobody would have cared if SoG had been scum). But some people were building a case against her before SoG even flipped. And I think it's a little weird if you're on the SoG wagon, you're supposed to think he's scum, so why get mad about the hammer before you know if it's good or bad? I want to look at people's comments to see if I think it looks like they knew SoG would not flip scum. Because if you're on the SoG wagon, you should still think he's gonna flip scum.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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ChiboSempai wrote:Obviously someone who has suspicion on them from strong tells (from Snow Bunny) is going to have to go out of their way to say specific things that could be a town tell. To me at least, a slip up is a slip up.
If SB had not replaced, would you vote SB now?Probably, since that would take away the town-tells.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I am not voting shanba.
I decided.
I am very happy voting yankee/budja because he replaces in and doesn't read the thread but puts his vote on shanba. Going for the highest vote-getter without actually reading the thread is VERY scummy. And now he's challenging kirby over his sureness of their votes on shanba? In case yankee forgot -- he's voting shanba too. So why is he attacking people for voting the same person he's voting?? Because he doesn't actually think shanba is scum? Because he KNOWS shanba is not scum? Because he wants to make sure other people on the bandwagon look bad?
Also, please note the mention of a cop and role fishing in yankees post.
I am very much in agreement with most of what shanba has said (except the part where he thinks I'm linked ot yankee/budja which I don't see, but whatever, I don't really care). I think chibo and kirby are just tunnelling town. I think chibo seems sincere and I've played with kirby before recently and I think he's sincere too. I sense no manipulation from them. I just think they're wrong.
Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I see there are some people not voting. Deadline is in three days.
Anyone who is not voting by deadline will earn my vote in future days. There is no excuse for being that lurky and unhelpful.
Anyone who does not get their ass in here and make a legitimate attempt to help the town scum hunt and reach a consensus should DIE.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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ZazieR wrote:EK- Do you think there's a difference between Pome in this game and Pome in Twilight Mafia (Mini 812)? If so, what?I had to go look back at that game to refresh my memory since I have blocked it out. I forgot I played that game with her.
Um, I would say that it's not that different. I think she is sort of hesitant in both. That game was maybe her first? I think she was unsure of how to play and not too agressive. That behavior makes me weary, but she was a noob and town in that game. And the problems I have had with her in this game are similar -- that she doesn't vote enough or take strong enough action in scum hunting or giving reads. But honestly, it is similar to her other play.
You've made me think she's townier by making me look back at that game.
Zazie -- do you think she has played differently this game from twilight?Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Noticed this gem amidst the flurry of crap:
ZazieR wrote:elvis_knits wrote:Pome, good job! I really like that list.
I'm sure I should care about reasons, like nacho just said, but I'm really just excited because it seems very reasonable.
unvote Pome, vote budjaEK, next time, make it a better reason if you need a reason to unvote your scumbuddy.
You asked for scumhunting! Scumhunting involves reasons. If you disagree, why?
Also, why did you vote Budja? And state your reasons. If you want to be lazy scum again, link to a post if you have already stated these reasons.Are you calling me scum?
I asked for a scumlist actually, and that's what she gave me. Yes reasons are helpful and I do want them, but her list really jived with my thinking. It made me think she was townier.
As to my buja vote... READ THE THREAD.
elvis wrote:Budja
*Guy is on every bandwagon, and in a scummy way, like he's taking the easy way out and voting easy targets. Page 1 greendude racism wagon. Chamber hatewagon. SoG jesterwagon. He gets on these easy wagons without even doing any hard work or attacking.
*Also he said "null" on Pome's horrible waffle scumlist post.I have also given reasons why I don't like yankee:
elvis wrote:I am very happy voting yankee/budja because he replaces in and doesn't read the thread but puts his vote on shanba. Going for the highest vote-getter without actually reading the thread is VERY scummy. And now he's challenging kirby over his sureness of their votes on shanba? In case yankee forgot -- he's voting shanba too. So why is he attacking people for voting the same person he's voting?? Because he doesn't actually think shanba is scum? Because he KNOWS shanba is not scum? Because he wants to make sure other people on the bandwagon look bad?.
Also, please note the mention of a cop and role fishing in yankees postTalk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Reasons are you are 90% noise and 9% wrong. That leaves 1% that might possibly be reasoning I could agree with. 90% noise is scummy because it gives the effect of scum hunting without actually helping. And the 9% of stuff that I think is wrong seems like you are using scummy and/or poor reasoning. Overall, I see no townie content from you.ZazieR wrote:elvis_knits wrote:I am now willing to lynch zazie.I take this as you're going to continue to be lazy scum.
Reasons behind this statement?
I was going to make a post before outlining all the reasons your posting about me is BS, but got frustrated with you. My main bones with you are:
1)You have no other reason for calling me scum other than some supposed relationship to Pome. This is really bad because:
a)I was the only person really pressuring Pome for most of the day until you started voting her. So I don't even see how I could be her buddy.
b)We don't even know if Pome is scum so saying I'm her buddy is so much WIFOM. I've already made a post on this topic, but I don't think you read it. Here it is:
2)I don't like you calling me lazy when I'm one of the more active people in this game and you seem to go for long periods of time without posting and then flood the game with a lot of crap like asking Pome what "sitting" means. If anyone is lazy, it is you. Anyone can quote a bunch of posts and ask for more explanation.elvis wrote:I also think that discussing scum buddies TOO much is a scum tactic. Noticing relationships between players is a good thing, but noticing a connection between two players should not be the basis for thinking they're both scum. It is simply not enough and too open to manipulation. Possible scum connections should only be supporting evidence, until such time as somebody flips scum. That is the only time that we should get too far into scum buddy talk, when we have something concrete. Otherwise it is a fallacy.
3)After you drew my attention to the twilight game I think Pome is town here since she was town there. You disagree, saying you think her scumhunting here is fake. Why do you think that? Give examples. I find it so hypocritical and maddening that you go through the thread and spam it full of requests for more info from people when the info is already in thread, yet when you're giving your opinion you don't give YOUR reasons. SO GODDAMN ANNOYING.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Twilight Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11722Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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First of all... does that mean greendude is being replaced? I'm confused. Or is it a posting restriction?
Next, I want to talk about the end of day yesterday:
Vote Count
Shanba (4) – ChiboSempai, Kirbyoshi, Pomegranate, SocioPath
Yankee (2) – elvis_knits, Shanba
Nachomamma8 (1) – Yankee
ChiboSempai (1) – Nachomamma8
Pomegranate (1) - ZazieR
Not Voting (1): GreenDudeWhy were we spread out like this? It was so stupid. Shanba was lynched with four votes, but there were six other people in the game! And the other "leading" wagon was only at 2 votes? That's ridiculous.
Yankee, and nacho - your votes were useless. Why were you holding onto votes that had no chance of lynching anyone? Who were your second choices for lynch after the vote you cast?
Today, and all future days, I really think we should try to hit the lynch number, not just let a lame low number take us to lynch. Because I think it deprives us of info. If we have more votes to analyze from a lynch, we have more info. The way the wagon went down yesterday, it could have been town driven and scum could sit back and be off the wagon.
Chibo did tunnel on shanba, and I said yesterday that I didn't like the fact that he tried to "trick" snowbunny into vote SoG. I am not convinced he's scum though. But I don't like his post 701.
Chibo wrote:I really don't think any of us saw that coming...I tried to tell you Shanba was making town tells. Also, only four people voted Shanba in the end, so you really didn't have that many people agreeing with you.
Chibo wrote:And Nachomamma, you're quite quick to act with that vote tbh. How do you vote then demand an explaination... You act like I'm the only one to have voted Shanba. Sure I somewhat lead the case on him, but he was topping the scum list for multiple people. You saw the slip ups we all thought were scum tells. Almost everyone agreed that Shanba was the top play with the deadline closing in.I don't like that you attack nacho for his vote. I think people should vote their suspicions, and be honest -- so do you! You're an aggressive player and I don't think his voting would bother you if it was against anyone else.
Also, I don't like you avoiding responsibility for the shanba lynch. Yes, others voted him, but so did you. And you more than somewhat led the case on him. You pushed repeatedly. I don't think you have to be scum to do that... but to deny that you did it -- that is scummy.
Also, I'm pretty sure your nacho suspicions here are OMGUS.
Chibo, I want a scum list from you ASAP with reasoning. I want to see how you see everyone in the game.
Kirby -- do you think my play this game is at all similar to my play in Second String Muppets Mafia?
Anyway, if you think I am scum, or you want to ask me anything about this game or muppets, I am happy to answer it.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Nachomamma8 wrote:And before I go to bed, I'd just like to make two short observations about Chibo's behavior that are scummy to me.
1) He starts up a bit of an OMGUS case against me in post #701 by saying "It's simple scum logic." I don't like when people call the "scum logic" they're pointing out simple or obvious because it implies that whoever doesn't catch it is stupid if they miss it. So, it's a scum's way of preying on an overinflated ego or two who claim to understand the logic, but really just don't want to be stupid. It is also a way of giving his case more plausability by use of his confidence, which is the same thing he did with Shanba.
2) I don't like his attempt at deflecting it towards everyone else by saying "I'm not the only one who voted for Shanba... there were guaranteed townies that went for it." In other words, he's either misunderstanding exactly what I'm accusing him of, or he's trying to misrep me. I'm not voting him/suspicious of him because he voted Shanba, I'm voting him/suspicious of him because he tunneled Shanba.jinx
(that's what I just said about chibo!)Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Kirbyoshi wrote:EK, regarding your 716 (the part that was addressed to me)...I've got no freakin' clue. The playstyles do strike me as similar, but it's so pro-town, I have a hard time voting you for it. I'm not placing a vote based wholly on meta. And to respond to the first line of 716: I think it means we have a town drunk.I actually don't think I played that game very well. Charter called me scum and almost vigged me and I only got away because he shot the paranoid cop instead. I also lurked a lot early since I don't have confidence in myself as scum.
I also went along with things in that game that I think are anti-town and I would never go along with as town. Like no-lynching and ecto's plan to let me live even though there was a night result that pretty much said I was scum. My town philosophy is to rely on scum hunting more than strategy and to follow the things that have the greatest chance of being true (like a power role with a guilty means lynch the guilty result... if there is a special circumstance deal with it later).
I think my playstyle is different from town to scum, but maybe that's just my perception of it. People that have played with me as both seem to know pretty well what the difference is.
My advice is just to question anything about me you don't like. And hopefully you will be able to tell the difference.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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I don't know what a town drunk is either. I feel funny, because I'm not a noob. But I don't think I've seen it before. Atleast not that I can remember. Is this a trendy new role?Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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So Town Drunk is a pro-town role blocker that makes the target be drunk the next day (and maybe unable to post?)?
I think nacho said GD was being replaced, but I didn't see that in Batt's posts. How did you know that, nacho?Talk nerdy to me.
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I remember when I first joined MS that I was in a game where I was a mafia goon that could hit another player with a posting restriction that made them only be able to post in emoticons for the day. The town drunk thing reminds me of that a bit, but kirby says the role is mainly used as a pro-town role. I would say that the choice of GD probably hints that the role is pro-town too. GD was lurking. Scum has no reason to silence him, but town might do it because lurking is inherently scummy.
Anyway, we can deal with that later when it comes up. Maybe GD replacement can help a little, telling us what being drunk actually did to him. Might have to wait another day for that if he can't post today though? Nobody was drunk D2 though, right?
We probably have three scum, I think. That's normal in a mini game. I'm not sure the effect of a jester though, since that hurts the town, might mean less scum, or maybe just more town power. I'd say probably count on three scum. If it's less, that's a good thing. But we should plan for worst-case. And I don't think there's 4 scum. That's too much, especially with a jester.
So I have a strong town read on kirby and socio. That would mean that there are three scum in this group of five:
Yankee
Nacho
GD
Pome
Chibo
I am still probably most suspicious ofYankee.Budja went on all easy wagons D1. Yankee replaced in and voted shanba without really reading the thread. Rolefishing. Bad news.
Chibovery agressive and tunnelled on Shanba. Those things are not bad in my book. However, I don't appreciate the effort to "trap" snowbunny. I also don't like his reaction to nacho's vote today. I am unsure here. Getting his read of all players may help me question him and decide, so Chibo, please do this.
Pom-laid back, sort of unhelpful in general, and similar to a game I saw her as town. However, for somebody so laid back, I think she's been on both lynches. Zazie thought she was scum. She started today trying to float the idea that maybe I would want to kill zazie. She had a bigger incentive, IMO. It's WIFOM, and I admit that zazie could have been killed simply for being so annoying. With Pom, I think it would help to "look to the wagons" as Shanba advised. Perhaps discussion with that will help.
GD- lurker. I really don't know much about him. I want to iso him, see what I can find before he went AWOL.
nacho-has had some good points. I am somewhat conflicted on him because I am conflicted on Chibo. And I feel one of them is probably scum, but I am not sure which one. I don't want to set up a false dilemma, becausemaybe neither is scum. I just have a gut town read on chibo despite some really scummy actions. And I have sort of a gut suspicion on nacho despite some pretty town actions. The polar opposites I get on them make me think one is scum and one is town, but I could be wrong. Nacho was fairly lurky for a while and his vote was useless yesterday sitting on chibo when chibo didn't have a chance of being lynched (I think that is where my gut suspicions lie).
I guess I willvote: Yankee
He's the only person I don't really have a conflict about.
Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Kirbyoshi wrote:Or, it could have been a double target. Does anyone know if Yankee would retain his shot if he targeted the same person scum did?I would say no. His shot went through. In the/invitational I'm playing, I think the mod even says if you're roleblocked you would not get your shot back. It would count as using your ability.
Hmmmm
It could make sense for zazie to be a vig kill. Since he was generally thought to be scummy.
Yankee might be telling the truth.
unvoteTalk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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Kirbyoshi wrote:Maybe GDude was the scum target, and was protected, and that's why he was passed out, not drunk, but injured? Or maybe an alcohol-related doctor variation? I'm kinda confused now, because there's so many possibilities...
Or GD was sent by the scumteam to perform the kill and was roleblocked by the TownDrunk (if I understand what the TownDrunk role is... like a roleblocker?)
Usually the way a scumteam works is that a GF will send in the kill, and he can send anyone. Or if there's no GF, I think anyone can send the kill.
We really need a GD replacement to sort this out.Talk nerdy to me.
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
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You know I was wondering if it was just mod flavor too, based on GD needing replacement.
Although if this is the case, mod was very misleading.
I think we just need to talk to GD replacement.
I wouldn't blame kirby for speculating on TownDrunk role if it's something he's seen often.Talk nerdy to me.
"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." -Joseph Campbell-
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elvis_knits Queen of Rock'n'Purl
- Queen of Rock'n'Purl
- Queen of Rock'n'Purl
- Posts: 8610
- Joined: October 13, 2005
- Location: Puppytown