Mini 881 - Moviestar Madness - Game Over

[milkshake]

Oh- haha, I didn't think we were supposed to post during the pre-game.

Dayhug back DGB <3

[milkshake]

1. First of all, i'm unsure of whether scum will have actors that are usually one of the villains in the movies they act in, or whether they will have regular actor characters. I'm also unsure if the movies they play in are indicative of alignment, such as starring as villains in their movies. Therefore,
Do you think the scum will have villain acting-roles in the movies they have been provided with?

2. Second of all, I feel that my name/movies, as well as the Will Smith example one reveal nothing about what our movie roles can do. There is also a chance that scum have actor names/movies in which they are the antagonist in their movie. In my opinion, claiming our names/movies doesn't reveal anything about what they can do, and may prevent scum from having enough time to fake an actor/movies. Therefore,
Are you against a full actor name/movies starred-in claim

1. My person doesn't have any overt villain roles so I think that would make sense.
2. Nope.
3.

Vote: Psychologic

for trying to figure out if he's safe to claim his scum role, Christopher Walken.

[milkshake]

Really.

[milkshake]

CKD and DGB are Hepburn and Tracy. Me and Psychologic she just threw in there in order to look uniformly judgemental.

I'm going to have to resist the urge to quote movies so that people don't think I'm breadcrumbing. This will be hard.

Let's see if the smart kids can figure out why.

I'm not a smart kid. Because scum would be the ones worrying about breadcrumbing? Personally I think scum would be the ones worrying about

what to

breadcrumb. Hence psychologic.

[milkshake]

Oh we're being serious all of a sudden, MordyS?

I think CKD shouldn't bring any personal factors into his decisions of who is and isn't scum. I also find buddying, even if RVS stage, extremely scummy, no matter who it's from.

That's ridiculous. What is this "buddying?" They're just having fun, and you're just trying to find something to criticize (you big meanie!). We all know people here turn on eachother at the slightest provocation (whether they're buddies or not!)

[milkshake]

Well either A) they really are Tracy and Hepburn or B) they're just throwing stuff around to see what sticks.

And what would you prefer, Milkshake? That we just hang out in RVS indefinitely?

I'd prefer you look at stuff that actually has a bearing on alignment instead of acting like what people do with their silly votes is important. It's people like you that make this forum the mosh pit that it is!

[milkshake]

In a normal stage there's maybe what? One "You voted for X so I'll vote for you" vote?

It's RVS

Exactly.

But hey, you tell me: What stuff actually has a bearing on alignment?

Psychological's theoretical discussion (well it's interesting at least), cateraction's breadcrumbing (err, according to DGB, that is), and your desire to make something out of nothing!

[milkshake]

You can take DGB's post as seriously as you want, MordyS. But that's not we were talking about. You were complaining about the RVS votes and saying the thing about buddying. If you have some logical connection between stuff that's going on and scummyness, (or even stuff that's going on and townyness, third partyness, whatever), you should lay it out nice and pretty for us (and me... since as we've already determined, I'm not apparently one of the smart kids) instead of making vague critical statements like a good little negative mafiascummer.

I dont think i have ever sucked up to DGB before...does that mean I am scum, oh dear?

Maybe this

has

gone a bit too far.

[milkshake]

I notice you were pretty quick to jump on the MordyS wagon, populartajo. I say go for it. But I didn't catch exactly why, though?

Psychologic is town, actually.

I didn't take this as anything more substantiated than a guess ("Really." "Yep."). But it would be interesting if I was wrong. Of course a substantiated claim that someone's scum would be more useful. ^^

[milkshake]

Your post is a good example of what is the town thing to do when you are facing posts like dgb's or mine.

You ask why. You try to read that person. You are actually trying to understand the motives why that person did what he did. I also as town want to understand why DGB called Psycho town. I know there was a reason (I think I know what it is) but I want DGB to explain first.

As scum, obviously, you dont have the motivation to try to understand the motivation. Your motivation is to try to make people look bad so you can mislynch them.

This is what Mordy posted and tell me what do you think of it.

Oh, in that case yes. Although I didn't think the post you quoted was the most poignant example, I agree wholeheartedly... in fact that's basically what I was saying when I was exchanging posts with MordyS earlier although you probably said it better...

[..]If you have some logical connection between stuff that's going on and scummyness, (or even stuff that's going on and townyness, third partyness, whatever), you should lay it out nice and pretty for us (and me... since as we've already determined, I'm not apparently one of the smart kids) instead of making vague critical statements[...]

Unvote, Vote: MordyS

(at least until psychologic makes a 2nd post!) Gogo bandwagon time?

[milkshake]

A bit touchy are we?

[milkshake]

Hm, I believe someone has it sigged or something that "Lurker hunting is a scum's favorite pasttime." But I don't think that's the case here, but I don't think we need to vote Vaya at all I just think she needs to start posting is all.

[milkshake]

I thought DGB's reads on MordyS, Psychologic, etc. were alot stronger than her Vaya read. Not that I have anything against it, a read is pretty much just a read. But my opinion is: I've never thought that posting frequency could be used as a viable arguement on this site, since it depends entirely on non-mafia-related mood and MeatWorld (tm) happenings. (Maybe that's narrow minded but I'm sticking to it.)

MordyS's last couple posts seemed like she was just trying to find something to argue about (I don't know if that's scummy or not), and (here I go turning on a dime) Psychologic still hasn't posted again.

[milkshake]

Regarding the buddying topic: I actually disagree with the implication of the section of the wiki that MordyS quoted,

Buddying up is a tactic, usually used by members of the Mafia, to try to make yourself look less threatening. Typically the Mafia member will try to be friendly in some way, either outright or, more often, subtly. If the Mafia member is ever lynched at some point, and other players have noticed the buddying, it tends to throw suspicion on the person the Mafia was being friendly towards, thereby causing confusion even after the Mafioso's death.

Being "friendly" with your vote and siding uneccessarily in important arguements, yes, I suppose can see mafia doing. But just being friendly, which I believe is what people were doing (heaven forbid ... with some possible debatability regarding votes in the RVS), well, if that's a scum tell here I'm quitting!

This is partially also based on the assumption that hopping on early bandwagons just for the heck of it if they agree with the reason, however small, is a perfectly pro-town thing to do, though... I know MordyS doesn't like the way people followed DGB onto the Vaya wagon, but at this stage of the wagon, this early in the game, I think it's totally fine.

[milkshake]

• DrippingGoofball, in post 28 were you under the assumption that milkshake's vote was serious?

Of course I was "serious" in that yes, I was voting you, for a not completely, totally random reason.

milkshake merely re-states all those points without demonstrating that he has done any thinking for him/herself.

If you read that post, you'll see I was asking MordyS to comment on these things, and besides I was the first to mention the topic regarding you, as you even acknowledge above...

I guess psychologic is doing what he thinks is best for the town, even though he wasn't very careful about making sure he's right, so I have a

slight

town read on him at the moment. (Yes, I know DGB also has a town read. Heaven forbid. Mine is many times slighter than hers, though.)

My scum reads are jasonT and MordyS. If I had to choose a third I'd probably go for Iecerint (because he's sort of just "floating along?") but that's not a strong read. MordyS and jasonT are strong reads, both based essentially on overly defensive posting (and, in MordyS's case, accusations solely for the sake of accusation.) I know jasonT is V/LA so that one might have to go on the backburner for now.

[milkshake]

We have her "defense" that her lurking isn't "as much of a scumtell" as "I think."

You "can" put "anything" in quotes and it makes you sound so "smart."

Lurking really isn't a big scum tell. It seems to me that even if lurking was considered totally neutral, scum still wouldn't do it because they would be trying to get "town cred."

I remember reading some sort of statistical comparison and it found that scum posted negligably

more

than town. (I'd better go check to make sure I'm right, though. *goes to look in the mafia discussion forum*)

[milkshake]

MS's post is very silly. Scum posts a lot because they try to look town! Looking town is scummy, guys! Better lurk!

More or less, yep.

(Town posts in order to win. Scum posts in order to be like town trying to win. The reason people

don't

post is because they have a lab report due on friday.)

[milkshake]

Pff, I make such a nice, concious effort to circumvent the WIFOM and then Iecerint goes and throws the buzzword at me.

Life is cruel.

[milkshake]

Agreed.

[milkshake]

This game certainly has taken on an interesting aspect of heavily debating reads and playstyles instead of dissolving into "You're illogical, no you're illogical, you use ad hominem blahdy blah blah." I like, but it means I can't take on my usual role of telling everyone else that they are arguing like crazy chimpanzees. ^^

jasonT is my new addition to my top suspects for jumping on the Vaya wagon so late in its journey. I really don't know if he actually believe the whole vayalurking-is-scum thing. He seems more like he's copying previous reasons without internalizing them. And it's the L-1 vote. Vaya is

so

not worthy of a L-1 vote.

unvote, vote: jasonT

By the way, no reveal really does make it difficult to decide who to lynch since you can't weigh what you gain from the flip (something I tend to do alot). Confusing.

[milkshake]

Hm. I thought I was making original comments on jasonT not recylcing them... MordyS you just keep saying things!

[milkshake]

Well fine- Vaya came up with the same thing more or less (well, it's obvious), but I was more specific. My comments were still original, not obviously taken straight from, like, three other posters.

Also, wanna answer my questions?

How exactly would you detect whether someone authentically believed or didn't believe vayalurking-is-scum? How exactly does one internalize reasons?

These "questions" are just my post put into question form.

[milkshake]

Obviously, there's no way to tell something like that for sure. It's just the way he says "he read the games and lurking is a major scum tell." What I read is "I read what other people said about the games and they said lurking is a major scum tell." I don't think he's being totally honest.

"How can you tell if someone is being totally honest?" <-- this is what you are saying. Obviously, I can't tell for sure. Neither can anyone else tell that most things they say are 100% certain!

And

besides

, the main thing is that it was the L-1 vote... Maybe he's just trying to catch up and didn't realize, not being opportunistic with the L-1 vote? But, seriously, the L-1 vote deserves at least some special comment about the possible hammer.

[milkshake]

I find Vaya's responses to be quite cool and not consistent with someone who hates being scum enough to lurk and be replaced

She's not scum... Iecerint, Cateraction, MordyS, and jasonT are (wait a second... oh I guess Iecerint can be the 3rd party. )

milkshake has been banished to purgatory

Not agreed.

Regarding DGB: Personally I would rather have statements than scum lists. Scum lists are so easy to make. A well-reasoned statement takes a bit more thought.

[milkshake]

Don't be silly; DGB has made plenty of well-reasoned statements today.

That said -- DGB, could you explain your town read on CKD?

Don't worry, I agree wholeheartedly that DGB has made plenty of well-reasoned statements today.

I just noticed a certain small trend in the signal to scum-list ratio. ^^ Actually for people other than DGB too.

[milkshake]

Cateraction is lurking too, but the diference between him and old-Vaya is that he's more active lurking than plain lurking, and his only posts have been snotty comments about people calling him scum. So I support the cateraction wagon... I might get on it, I'll have to see.

[milkshake]

Deadline in 2 days?

Yeah, really? Wow.

I pretty much support cateraction, but I think MordyS or jasonT would be better.

If our deadline is in two days, we need statements like this ^ from pretty much everyone.

[milkshake]

jasonT's claim is OK but not fantastic. An ability interacting with the zones of death mechanic is confirmable, though, assuming he targets whoever we lynch today, but wouldn't that actually be bad for us if he did that?? That's what gets me.

cateraction is a decent alternative... his "I was trying out a scummy playstyle" thing is almost policy lynchable considering he hasn't posted since...!

[milkshake]

Wow yeah 6 players. We practically all have to agree in order to lynch someone. ^^

My top suspect is MordyS. But with all these people dead I hardly even know what to think...!

[milkshake]

I'm usually the one suggesting a mass claimish thing of some sort and everyone else is shooting me down.

My actress is Whoopi Goldberg. I chose "The Color Purple" and assumed the role of Celie Harris Johnson, a down-trodden, abused young woman. If I was killed, I would have been brought back to life the next night. Shouldn't we also say our other movies? Unless you think anti-town folks will correctly guess each other's roles based on the movies, no reason not to... my other films are "Ghost," "Sister Act," and "How Stella Got Her Groove Back."

[milkshake]

it's been my impression she's [DGB is] pretty town.

You sure had a funny way of showing it!

[milkshake]

Hm, if populartajo WAS scum, and he was just claiming the scum-role that he got, Nicholas Cage could be a bad guy and that could indicate bad guys were scum...

So if jasonT really does have a day cop ability, he could target populartajo and that would be informative.

[milkshake]

The above doesn't sit well with me, especially since MordyS' sin consists of being slightly irritating, and not even in a memorable way. I loathe unsupported declarations of "top suspect."

I was merely reiterating my suspicion from yesterday, it wasn't a change in "suspecthood." It wasn't based on her being slightly irritating either (that's not a nice thing to say! ) I also didn't like how she used the kills in support of herself... if she chose a kill, she would chose it to

not

incriminate her (probably.)

jasonT is my other big guy... same as yesterday. Case in point: If you didn't target cateraction, jasonT, who did you target? (Assuming you can target people in case they die.)

[milkshake]

No directing the cop, kthxbai

Hey-what? The cop said he would follow the town's opinion. My opinion was that this would be a good target for the town... I thought it was a pretty good idea, too! Harrumph!

[milkshake]

From his wording, that doesn't sound like it was an option.

True, but I sort of consider doc to be like bringing someone back to life (from a flavor standpoint), so that's why I thought it might work.

Why are you helping the scum?

What?

[milkshake]

The cop will make up his own mind. That's how it works.

So the part where he was asking who to cop and a couple people were telling him Vaya? O.o

[milkshake]

why do you think nicholas cage could be a bad guy?

According to wikipedia, he does play some bad guys, but I was just assuming jasonT was right about him being the bad guy in that movie, so nevermind.

@DGB: Oh, I see what you're doing...

I'm town, and I want you to investigate who you bloody well choose. How is that? Make the scum sweat. Look at milkshake jumping on the opportunity to get you to investigate poptajo!

You told him to investigate whoever he wants and then suggested that he investigate me. Riight.

Anyway, I agree that he should investigate whoever he wants. But he

wants

to hear other people's suggestions. And I'm sticking to my suggestion despite DGB's antics...

Tajo was a decent suggestion since he could confirm or reject the bad-guy-in-movies = scum theory. Of course presumably Nicholas cage is a good guy in some of tajo's movies (although oddly, he didn't say his other movies.) (And I doubt tajo's the godfather... I'm assuming based on the first post that everyone even scum has rotating movie-based abilities, so he could be at most godfather 1 out of 4 times. The godfather thing was just more DGB antics.)

I wouldn't mind if you stopped fishing for doctors.

Heh.

Wait what? you make it sound like I have the ability to kill...where do you get that from... I said yesterday.

The ability to kill? I'm afraid you misunderstood me. I was asking if you have the ability to target an alive person, since, after all, your ability could resolve after they died.

role movies are prob not indicative of alignment. So Im, all for restricting the arsenal of future fakeclaims.

But you didn't give your role movies!... Did you?

[milkshake]

You really are a goofball! If I'm scum for "making light" of you, then so be it!

By the way high five to my fellow smooth talkers, DoS and poptajo.

Not only would it confirm no such thing, but Jason would be an idiot to investigate a player on the advice of another OVEREAGER player. The godfather comment is not "antics." I'm dead serious, don't make light of it unless you're scum, in which case making light of it is totally expected.

This is silly, first of all for calling me overeager when I was like the 4th person to suggest a target (Vaya is a fine target too, though, so look I can go with the grain as well as against it!), and second of all for the godfather thing, which obviously could conceivably happen your way, it just seems extremely unlikely to me. But I won't argue against this opinion any more, you're entitled to it, I guess, and yes it is conceivable.

[milkshake]

Hi prod recieved sorry for my absense. There was thanksgiving... and then renting an apartment... and I think civilization 4 fit into there somewhere.

4) milkshake's final sentence attempts at feigning confusion and clearly indicates that he wants to keep his lynch options open to be able to switch his suspicion easily.

I see where you are going with point 4 but actually "not knowing what to think" is more of a reason

not

to switch my suspicians in this case. It means in other words that I was having difficulty finding any new evidence... you'll see at the end of this post that I actually suspect the same person as always, although I actually do have another reason (ish).

milkshake, what movie did you choose night one and what did it allow you to do?

I believe I already posted that...

I chose "The Color Purple" and assumed the role of Celie Harris Johnson, a down-trodden, abused young woman. If I was killed, I would have been brought back to life the next night.

1) His reaction to Iecerint's death one post before is non-existant.
2) He points out the obvious in the second sentence.
3) He suspects someone without giving justification for it, and it's someone that is likely town.

1 + 2 are... yes, true... with regards to 3 I obviously I don't buy MordyS being likely town, but JasonT is bigger right now because of this...

I dont know how.... but my investigation failed. I investigated populartajo.

I'm lost for words right now.

No one wondered about this? I mean, maybe someone did but it deserves alot more wondering. This is like saying "I want you all to think populartajo is the godfather!" isn't it? Which reinforces DGB's (in my opinion misguided) godfather assumption from before. JasonT is practically planting evidence in hopes of getting tajo lynched! (although admittedly he isn't succeeding just yet.)

[milkshake]

Presumably one of the things stopping him from succeeding is that he's dead.

Yes, that is a wee bit problematic...

Regarding MS's last post -- it's true that that was a possible interpretation of the post at the time, but I don't think it's feasible any longer. We probably would have already won the game. Mordy alludes to this. I think he's already answered Mordy's question, though. MS, I'd like it if you would explain why you think Mordy is scum, unless it's just gut.

My reasons are still from day one I'm afraid. I actually might have skimmed over why psychologic believes he is likely town, assuming he said that earlier?

[milkshake]

Well sorr-ryy, Psychologic! I thought you were asking what my role was night one. It was that night one... The following night it was Delilah from How Stella Got Her Groove Back (which let me send someone to a tropical island for a night, protecting them from being targetted and killed (I targetted populartajo))... and for next night I chose

Sister Act

although I better not tell you what that does exactly in case it ends up being relevant (I can think of a few situations where it might be).

milkshake, please answer MordyS' question in post 474.

I think he's already answered Mordy's question, though.

MordyS, duh. Other than him, I admit you are starting to look pretty iffy... -.- What if I didn't post in two hours? It seems like you're trying to make your hammer look not-scummy! Although I admit that I do the same thing sometimes (healthy paranoia).

[milkshake]

Obviously that's why populartajo is so clearly not the godfather... I don't know what happened exactly, but I wasn't roleblocked (at least I wasn't informed of being roleblocked) so presumably he died without being targetted... the godfather is the only role I can think of that would never, ever die without someone very specifically killing them.

[milkshake]

Great, one last alt fail for old time's sake.

[milkshake]

TOWN
DrippingGoofball
curiouskarmadog
milkshake
Psychologic
MordyS

This list also had two scum in it.

I could have played alot better though.

[milkshake]

Oh, I was extremely impressed by this though.

I'm been scum many, many times, and been part of a large number of scum teams. I know that no scum in their right mind would bulldoze into the game on what, page 1? the way Psycho did. It's a totally townie action. He doesn't care if he sounds like he's rolefishing or some such on his first or second post. I don't think he's experienced enough to fake it; in fact, I don't believe anyone is.

Now I don't expect anyone but me to give credence to this sort of experience-based "logic."

I, however, swear by it.

Forget the norm. That type of experience-based "logic" should get alot of credence... look:

I caught two scums, cateraction and MordyS, and maybe DoS, we'll see about him. I'm not sure yet whether I want to lynch them or adopt them.

2 for 2.5! This is the kind of thing mafiascum needs more of.

Less accusations of "scum logic," more real reasons someone is a member of the mafia.

[milkshake]

Heh, I just mean because she said "maybe" DoS. We'll see about him.

[milkshake]

I'm sure she didn't mean anything by it.