/in-Vitational Game 5, Simon Mafia 2: Game Over before 832
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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I thought you meant 'R' was silent, not nonexistent.
What's with the vote on the person who hasn't posted yet? I see two town reasons: to get an active lurker to post or to get an inactive player lynched before their inactiveness does harm.
I don't see the first as feasible, as DDD hasn't posted yet. Therefore you don't know if DDD has been active, unless you have seen him post elsewhere (which I'm assuming you haven't as you have failed to link evidence).
The second I see as more plausible, yet unlikely or at least premature. The game started on Tuesday. You made your vote less random today, which is just around 7 hrs over 3 days. We have 3 weeks left of today, so you are wanting them lynched now instead of replaced or even prodded to make sure they know the game has started.
What seems to be the most likely, is that you are trying to lynch a player who hasn't been on to defend themselves, and leave yourself defence of lynching someone who would be hurtful when DDD flips.
Unvote
Vote:LlamaFluff
FOS: ZazieR, Lord Gurgi
Mod: Can you please prod DDD-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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So, basically do something scummy and see who attacks? That's basically what it is.Lord Gurgi wrote:Actually when you vote someone who can't defend themselves, you get to see who jumps to the valiant defense.
Somewhat. I'd still find everyone suspicious as I would not know if they knew he was active elsewhere and the fact they didn't bring it up when voting and that they didn't ask for a prod in case he didn't realize the game started... like with LG.LlamaFluff wrote:
So if he has posted on site you would consider this a decent wagon?Battousai wrote:I don't see the first as feasible, as DDD hasn't posted yet. Therefore you don't know if DDD has been active, unless you have seen him post elsewhere (which I'm assuming you haven't as you have failed to link evidence).
Since he did, I'll
Unvote
FOS: LlamaFluff-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Anyone who attacks someone for attacking someone isn't always using a chainsaw (some use hand grenades). Especially if the attacker is attacking someone with a bad case.
ex/
LG- DDD is scum, he has two spaces in his name. This is a serious vote and we should all lynch him. Vote DDD.
Batt- That case is bad, you are obviously just trying to get anyone lynched. Vote LG.
LG- Chainsaw defense!!!
I don't see that as much of a chainsaw defense, more like attacking a mugger. Should the person be jailed for assault for attacking and apprehending someone who was mugging an old lady at knife point? And more importantly, I just spelled apprehending correctly without using spell check .-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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I was talking about how they all jumped on a wagon of a player that hadn't entered the game. I guess I didn't think about how they voted. Hmm... now that I think about that, it does seem that LG is a bit scummier than the others (I don't like bandwagonning just to get out of RVS). LlamaFluff and Zazie are the same just about. She quoted LlamaFluff and that is her reason for voting DDD.Goatrevolt wrote:
They didn't do the same thing. Llama started the wagon. Zazie hopped aboard without comment. And LG jumped on with a "screw the RVS, let's just blatantly bandwagon" vote. Does reasoning, timing, the nature of the vote not factor in to your opinions at all?Battousai wrote:LG and Llamafluff- I'm waiting on more play before I place my vote down again. Right now everyone I fos'd has done the same thing, so I'm going to wait for them to become more active.
Vote: LG
I feel that if you place a vote on someone, barring rvs in most cases, that you want the person lynched.Nuwen wrote:are all of your suspicions honestly based on the expectation that DDD's wagon would be pushed to a kill?
It adds reasonable doubt in to whether or not he felt that DDD was active lurking or not. After going back to the votes, it doesn't even look like LG even cared why he voted DDD, as long as it was a bandwagon vote and it is why I decided to vote him.Nuwen wrote:
Why does verification of DDD's "active lurking" (which I doubt was deliberate, but that's irrelevant to this point) lessen the intensity of your suspicion towards LlamaFluff? Do you believe scum always get town lynched for false reasons?Battousai wrote:Unvote
FOS: LlamaFluff
Of course scum can get town lynched for acting scummy. Else, how would they get a townie to hop on the wagon? Based on DDD's actions, or lack of actions, I don't feel like he did anything scummy except the possible action of active lurking (even though I also don't feel he did this).-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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los scum?
Ok, I misread. I mixed zazie and DDD together.
So far then, your suspicion list is myself, Zazie, DDD, and LF? Since this is a 12 player game and following the 1:3 ratio, only 3 of the four can be scum. Which 3 would you see as scum together? Is there one that you think is scummy, but cannot be a partner to X?-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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There's a couple of things that have rung as scummy here. First is how you go middle of the road for a claimed role, but leave room for her to be lynched if you get the support by saying you don't like one of her posts. Basically you said, "I have no read, yet she has acted scummy."Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote: I got nothing either way, it looks like she was trying to decide if it was a good idea or not as most of us were. Her claim was startlingly aggressive, but again that doesn't give me a read either way.
I really don't like her 176 though.
I also don't like SpyreX trying to link Battousai with myself. Try this on for size then, Battousai is my number two pick to lynch behind Zazie. Did I just blow your mind?
Then, the way you word your last paragraph, it seems like you only suspect me so Spyrex won't suspect you.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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I felt the DDD wagon was based on nothing, literally nothing, and wanted all players to get a chance to post before being wagoned. He posted since then, so I feel I am allowed to call him scummy or townie now.Goatrevolt wrote:Why would Batt throw himself out there early to slow down the DDD wagon, but then start pressuring DDD himself later when the wagon resurfaces?
Also, when I have more time, I'll give my stance on LF's lack of scumhunting to get people to do it instead of focusing on the setup. From what I recall, LF actually did try to scumhunt, but just gave up during the setup discussion. I will have to reread a few pages to confirm though.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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After looking at Lf in isolation, I noticed he voted TDC for focusing on the setup and not on the previous wagons. After that, all he did was complain about setup discussion and defending his stance on it, all the while asking people to scumhunt.Battousai wrote:Also, when I have more time, I'll give my stance on LF's lack of scumhunting to get people to do it instead of focusing on the setup. From what I recall, LF actually did try to scumhunt, but just gave up during the setup discussion. I will have to reread a few pages to confirm though.
Also- LG/TDC: I'm totally lost on what just happened between you.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Nah, I don't think there would have been any other type of answer that would label him as scum, so you are safe. For now.forbiddanlight wrote:
Bulletproof
Sorry, but what is a BP?
Or would you have preferred SpyreX answer?
Ya, I just kept reading that and just didn't understand it. Powerrole, bellhop, broken pelvis, but nothing clicked.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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So, what kind of scumhunting did you expect others to do then?LlamaFluff wrote:
There was nothing really scummy in the RVS to me, it moved before I really thought it was over, so I just tried to get on someone who never even was a part of it.Battousai wrote:The problem I have with you, LF, is the same as FL. You did not try to scumhunt while everyone was doing setup speculation, and instead tried to get others to scumhunt (TDC). Did you just not see anything scummy?-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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I think we should all answer this, a basic top two scummy. Since apparently I haven't posted substance... I'll go next.SpyreX wrote:Llama:
If you had two bullets right now, who would you shoot? Why?
LG: His early bandwagoning of DDD, then later his trap.
LF: During setup speculation, he either defended his position of not speculating or wanted others to scumhunt. Not scummy, but the fact he doesn't scumhunt during this whole time is what does make it scummy.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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The DDD wagon had a reason behind it, and it wasn't random. That is why I took issue of it, as I still do. The reason for the wagon wasn't, he has spaces in his name. It was lurker-scum. Lurker-scum, because the guy hadn't posted his first post in, IIRC, 2 days.TDC wrote:
I guess we find different kind of things interesting.The reaction of Batt to it was something that came from it that I thought was kind of interesting.
In retrospect, the post in question is absurdly verbose (especially compared to his other posts), considering it only says the DDD wagon has no substance (duh).
LG: In Lover's mafia, you played a decent scum game. If it wasn't for your partner, I might have not voted for scum.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Not immediately. Usually the vote goes away quickly or as soon as something happens.SpyreX wrote:So a pointless vote warrants NO response?
I thought you were using Lover's mafia as an example of bad scum play. I was giving a counter view of it.Lord Gurgi wrote:Compliments about past games always seem out of place.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai wrote:SpyreX wrote:Llama:
If you had two bullets right now, who would you shoot? Why?I think we should all answer this, a basic top two scummy.Since apparently I haven't posted substance... I'll go next.
LG: His early bandwagoning of DDD, then later his trap.
LF: During setup speculation, he either defended his position of not speculating or wanted others to scumhunt. Not scummy, but the fact he doesn't scumhunt during this whole time is what does make it scummy.
Spyrex:Spyrex wrote:Now, as is mentioned later its because I was the "random" vote when asked but in that case - why not simply say one of your 3 FoS's was scum? Why still add me in to the mix if my reasoning for being on this wagon wasn't scummy?
Whether or not your vote was scummy, you were on the wagon. I felt the wagon was scummy, so you kinda have to be included since you were on the wagon.
??? I never voted you... I don't get this paragraph.Spyrex wrote:However, the above stuck an off chord. The actively unexplained vote on me (after I had said I would lynch him in talking with DDD) getting no response in conjunction with the above sure does.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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That's because it is D1, and I'm not all too interested in the game. Once activity and information is learned, I will be more involved.Patrick wrote:I've reread Battousai and found myself agreeing with what Goat said about him. After starting actively he's seemed more and more in the background, and alot of his reasons for suspicions are borrowed from other people.
When it comes to strategies, it all depends on how much it might benefit the scum team.Patrick wrote: Is there something scummier about Gurgi suggesting a sub-optimal strategy than Nuwen suggesting a sub-optimal strategy?
You misunderstand. Spyrex's vote was random and not scummy. Then the wagon started and the 3 votes on the "lurker scum" wagon are scummy. Spyrex didn't unvote once this happened, thus he perpetuated the wagon.Goatrevolt wrote:
This makes absolutely no sense at all. This is basically the same point I called you out on earlier. You are applying a blanket "everyone is scummy on this wagon" statement and making no effort to differentiate what is what. You can't honestly tell me that you found a random vote on DDD to be at the same level of scumminess as Zazie or Gurgi or Llama's vote?Battousai wrote:Whether or not your vote was scummy, you were on the wagon. I felt the wagon was scummy, so you kinda have to be included since you were on the wagon.
The idea that a wagon is scummy, thus everyone on it gets "scum points" is absurd.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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So, it appears we are going to lynch an inactive. Since no one else is willing to lynch any of my top 2 suspects, or answer the question I posted to everyone... twice (I'll ask again at the beginning of the day tomorrow then), I'll vote for one of the inactives so my vote will count.
Unvote
Vote: Elmo
I think two wagons that are close together can provide us with information on how people decide to vote.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Ya, the reason I voted Elmo over ZazieR is to see who would unvote, or vote to make one wagon the leading wagon at deadline. That is the only reason.
My plan, the whole time, was to lynch ZazieR by unvoting Elmo and voting ZazieR (effectively giving ZazieR a 2 vote distance) closer to deadline or if I felt Elmo was getting too close to being lynched.
Now that I admitted that, Goat..., I might as well vote ZazieR as everyone would have my above statement, in mind when they read the vote count.
But it is L-1 now, so I'm going to wait for ZazieR to claim or do something, before hammering.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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?
My conclusion is that if one of Nuwen or LG were buddying up, it would most likely be Nuwen.
Evidence-
LG's stance seemed to be that Elmo didn't do enough scummy actions.
Nuwen's stance seemed to be based on defending actions that others have found scummy.
I think that scum would be more likely to defend a townie they think is about to be lynched, and Nuwen's stance seemed to be the most likely way of doing it.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Ok, now I understand what you mean. I think. I think scum would be more inclined to defend actions, since they know it comes from a townie. Add in the fact that the townie they are defending is a leading wagon that seemed like it will come to fruition, makes it even more likely they will do this, to appear correct and townie in defending the actions.Goatrevolt wrote:
You need to back this up. You're simply saying Nuwen's stance is more likely to come from scum, but I want reasonsBattousai wrote:?
My conclusion is that if one of Nuwen or LG were buddying up, it would most likely be Nuwen.
Evidence-
LG's stance seemed to be that Elmo didn't do enough scummy actions.
Nuwen's stance seemed to be based on defending actions that others have found scummy.
I think that scum would be more likely to defend a townie they think is about to be lynched, and Nuwen's stance seemed to be the most likely way of doing it.whyit's more likely to come from scum. Saying it "seems" the most likely isn't good enough.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai wrote:Minor suspicion- TDC, DDD, Nuwen
Uncomfortable with the idea as scum- Elmo
Townie- FL, Goat waffling with Gurgi
Voted for: Batt, Nuwen.Elmo
With a minor suspicion, I would think scum would feel safe taking him out as his suspicion was only minor. Less probable that FL, Goat, or Gurgi would want Patrick dead, as a player that has marked you as townie is an asset. I would say the most probable killer was Nuwen (minor suspicion and was voted for) or someone who wanted to frame Nuwen.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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It is not total WIFOM. With past actions, a player can predict what happened the last night by using it as a tool to figure out which side of the WIFOM is the most likely scenerio.forbiddanlight wrote:
Alternate interpretation. Elmo makes sense as a killer since Patrick is good at reading her. Or Elmo was framed.
With a minor suspicion, I would think scum would feel safe taking him out as his suspicion was only minor. Less probable that FL, Goat, or Gurgi would want Patrick dead, as a player that has marked you as townie is an asset. I would say the most probable killer was Nuwen (minor suspicion and was voted for) or someone who wanted to frame Nuwen.
But, in the end the X is the killer or someone framed X WIFOM gets us nowhere.
So... Which scenerio with Elmo do you find most probable, and what has lead you to believe this?
I would think that Nuwen killing Patrick is more likely than Nuwen being framed, based on Nuwen's D1 reaction to the Elmo wagon. The reaction has shown Nuwen to be, well, less cautious or show less discretion in acting scummy.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Both factions, IMO, try not to get lynched. Plain and simple. Since you acted less cautious, I said it was more likely you killed Patrick over being framed as I feel you wouldn't be shy killing someone who found you scummy.Nuwen wrote:
Is scum or town player is more likely to be conscientious about his or her appearance? Are the chances equal, but for different reasons? Which faction has incentive to walk on eggshells?Battousai wrote:The reaction has shown Nuwen to be, well, less cautious or show less discretion in acting scummy.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Then why did you suggest that Elmo was either framed or killed Patrick? The reason I think, is to put a counter point out there in which you feel is more likely. Since you have an opinion, there is obviously enough information to form one. By expressing these opinions, it adds more information than not, or at least something to talk about to gain more information.forbiddanlight wrote:
Dunno, don't care. Not enough info, waste of time to discuss.So... Which scenerio with Elmo do you find most probable, and what has lead you to believe this?
I just don't get why the collective town of this site allow scum get a free pass N1. No one discusses it, to avoid the WIFOM and suspicion.
I'm just suggesting two possibilities and comparing them together and giving an opinion. You being framed or you doing the killing. These two possibilities are easily compared with past information. Patrick being townie can't be as easily quantified, as players can have different opinions, expressed or held back.Nuwen wrote: This. Suggesting any type of frame job requires information the collective town simply doesn't have to confirm right now. Occam's Razor this one. Patrick always oozes towniness.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Just so everyone knows where I stand right now, my primary suspicion is on Nuwen.
No, the NK discussion/analysis isn't the reason, but it does support Nuwen as being scum.
The reason I find Nuwen suspicious is her defence of Elmo yesterday. I'll elaborate on it more when Nuwen gets here/I have more time.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Elmo- You are trying to lynch someone who you feel isn't scummy (I'm guessing), just not as townie as everyone else. Is this a good reason to lynch him? No. Is this a good reason to pursue him and see if he becomes scummy? Yes.
I think the only time you should vote someone because you find everyone else townie is if you are a cop and got innocents or it is nearing end game.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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When I made that post, I was expecting Nuwen to come in. We'd have a tete-a-tete and my feelings would waver or grow. Since none of that happened, I'm still inclined to believe my D1 assessment that
"I think scum would be more inclined to defend actions, since they know it comes from a townie. Add in the fact that the townie they are defending is a leading wagon that seemed like it will come to fruition, makes it even more likely they will do this, to appear correct and townie in defending the actions."
Along with Patrick's death, I see Nuwen flipping scum to be likely.
Vote: Nuwen-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Right now, I would have to say my top 2 suspects would be you and TDC.Elmo wrote:Llama is staying, right? Coolies. I want to know where Gurgi and Battousai stand on, like, everyone.
Elmo: For not voting at the end of the day and for the convo you had with Goat. In my opinion, when a townie is said to have town actions, they usually go along with it (unless the person calling them for acting townie just totally flipped on a past opinion). Scum would try to argue it just to appear to be acting against scum goals.
TDC: Not voting on consecutive nights.
When you do not have a vote up at the end of the day, you have the ability to shake off all blame for the lynch. Even if you said that you think the lynched player is scummy and should be lynched, it is still scummy. Not everyone here has perfect memory, and as this game gets longer, the less people would want to reread. So, a vote count is easy to find and would be the place to make your suspicions and opinions noted.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Why no reaction on TDC telling everyone that you think SpyreX is town? Ok, SpyreX claiming took most of the mystery out of Fl's night action, but you are trying to get rid of the rest of the mystery.TDC wrote:Okay, suppose you think SpyreX is scum.
Why do you not tell us about it and get him lynched? Assuming you already thought so yesterday, why did you not tell us about it yesterday?
How is moving him to the safe floor and thus barring him from sending in a kill (starting tomorrow) better than that?
I can hence only conclude that you think he is town.
If your aim is to keep secret who is moved, why no reaction on SpyreX spoiling the plan?-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Well, you haven't reacted to my vote or claims. I want your opinion on what I said.Elmo wrote:Explain what better? You haven't asked me to explain anything.
It shouldn't have to be discussed. Do you tell every player, 'Make sure to scumhunt'? No. Because they should already know.Elmo wrote:f you would have liked me to do one or the other, then you should have talked to me at the time and we could have discussed it, instead of you informing me of your preferences well past the point where I can do anything about it.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Do you not realize WHEN you did those actions???? D2, at the very end of the day. I'm not psychic, so I couldn't tell if you would vote or not vote at the end of the day and as I said, you should know people want you to be on the vote count at the end of the day, this is hardly your first game of mafia.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Hmm... I like how you degrade all of the cases against you and another player as just policy lynching. If it is a policy lynch, don't you think there is a reason WHY it is a POLICY? It's because the actions are scummy.TDC wrote:so Elmo and I are the next best policy lynches.
The reason my vote is on Elmo was because I noticed him doing two different scummy things, whereas you only did 1. But now that Spyrex has brought it up, it is pretty scummy to never having placed a serious vote (you voted in the RVS) all the way up to D3. You call people scummy, you bring cases or accusations at people, but you never follow it up with a vote (possibly hoping a wagon will form and you won't have to take the heat for a mislynch). The one thing you did, I find is now much more scummier than what I thought.
Unvote
Vote: TDC-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Why is it a policy lynch? Because someone felt it was scummy at one time, and therefore applied it to all players who do the same.
Go look through the game and tell me who TDC has tried to get lynched. Can you find one person he has called scum AND tried to get them lynched? No. That is why it is scummy, because he isn't trying to find scum the past few days. At least I have a vote out and am trying to get someone who I feel is scum, lynched (even if it isn't all that concrete, at least I'm trying).-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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TDC: Sorry, but I said (P AND Q), not (P and not(Q)). The difference is that in the first one, both quantifiers have to be true, if one is false the statement is false. The second is where the first one has to be true and the second false to make the whole statement true.
-- Sorry, have a discrete structures test coming up and I'm relating this to studying
The only person that I think that YOU think is scummy is SpyreX, by way of focusing on questioning him all day. Now, you may not think he is scummy, but I think that YOU think there might be something there.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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"one person he has called scum AND tried to get them lynched"
It is obviously (P AND Q) as both P and Q as the truth table would show that T, T = T; T, F = F; F, T = F; F, F = F. Remember, you have to do it logically, as I could say If it is sunny, it is nighttime and make an AND statement "It is sunny AND it is nighttime" which logically makes sense. Now P = Found someone scummy, and Q = tried to get them lynched. If P = false the whole statement is false. If Q = false, the whole statement is false. In both those instances, it doesn't matter what P or Q means, as one of them is false and thus, the whole statement is false (hence the "No.").TDC wrote:Uhm, no you said NOT (P AND Q) ("can you find a person..no") and I said that Fluff thinks it's NOT P and you think it's P, but NOT Q. (Never mind that Q in itself makes no sense without P)
"(Never mind that Q in itself makes no sense without P)"
Logically, it does.
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I'm going off the assumption of trying to find an instance of you scumhunting. Scum scumhunt, usually not as well as townies, but they do it none the less.I'm a bit confused as to why you think that I think there might be something there and still think I'm scum. Obviously, if I was scum, I would know whether or not something is there.
Also, Yeah! More discrete structures practice.-
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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Battousai Mafia Scum
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