Mini 861: Hellsing Mafia - (Game Over!)

[kikuchiyo]

Did I miss the RVS?

[kikuchiyo]

Sorry, I only had a chance to skim before and it looked as though things might be heating up. Rereading and I am a bit confused:

fuzzy votes archon because "self-voting is detrimental to town."

forbiddan votes mod and inquires as to why "self-voting is detrimental to town."

fuzzy claims "because that's a vote that could be used to catch scum."

forbiddan and fuzzy mutually agree the procedure is "anti-town".

forbiddan then "let's fuzzy off" for his RVS excuse.

Was fuzzy's vote "random" to begin with?

Why isn't fuzzy upset with forbiddan's vote?

Do I have this about right?

[kikuchiyo]

I am not upset with forbiddan's vote at all, it was actually something I had considered before seeing Archon self-vote.

This does not match up with the "why" in regards to your vote on Archon.

It was more a joke than anything as we are in the RVS but I believe that if you are voting for yourself, then you really aren't helping the town if you are town,

because that's a vote that could be used to catch scum

.

I think that logically you will have to admit that forbiddan's vote is just as bad. Now, I am not trying to defend anyone here, but if we are going to move out of the RVS and your vote on Archon

is serious

then I have to take issue with your interaction with forbiddan. Are you friends outside of the game or something? You seem to have a better rapport with forbiddan here as you are willing to forgive such a similar offense as the one you are voting.

[kikuchiyo]

You bold the wrong portion of my quote. Italicized is mine. I am not friends with forbiddan outside of the game, in fact, I am not sure that we have ever interacted prior to being in this game.

Voting someone because you find their actions detrimental to town is not a "joke". It is a vote which potentially ends the rvs and therefore can simply not exist as both a joke and a real reason. If you honestly find it detrimental to town, then you should find forbiddan's as well. I think I may have the two of you figured out, however, so I shall drop this issue for now, but please be advised that I do not approve of the "gap" here in your logic.

[kikuchiyo]

kikcuhiyo, you seem to be really pushing this gap in logic on fuzzy. Why no vote? Why drop the issue, as you say in post 44?

I clearly stated that I did not want to pursue the discussion. Obviously I have my reasons and would rather not discuss them at this time. I think the ensuing conversation has potential to be detrimental to town. I would rather revisit the issue when necessary.

As of yet, saberwolf and doombunny's humor is not impressive. I don't see how extending the random/joke phase does us any good. I think Chaco has the right idea here:

Vote: saberwolf

for the wanton distraction that is post 95. Deliberately making yourself a difficult read may work well for your meta, but I would rather lynch the jokers rather than having to deal with the wifom surrounding their alignments at a later date. So I guess I could say I would support a policy lynch seeing as how I don't think this thread has progressed much beyond the RVS.

[kikuchiyo]

Expand on 135, please.

[kikuchiyo]

Geez. I go to work and there's five pages? Seriously. Quick notes before I go to bed:

1) 265 is the most sensible post in regards to the claim. Seems like it took forever for someone to realize it. I am a believer in early vig claims, and I think the shot should be taken early as well. Mafia is a numbers game and reducing the lynch pool is an effective strategy. That said, Net cannot be taken to a lylo situation,

FoS

to those stating it good for him to wait until an assumed mylo/lylo, and I propose the simplest option- Net self vig's night one. Problem solved. Thoughts?

2) Amished/saber hurts my brain though I will certainly lynch saber first. Amished seems to at least have sprinklings of protown material in his posts.

3) I do see the doombunny/saber connection and so I can support lynching out of those two, however, Looker seems to be asking for a policy lynch.

[kikuchiyo]

^^ One of my problems with this claim is personified here. You seem to be playing a whole handful of "noob" cards to avoid responsibiliity for the claim. You say you wanted to claim "early" but the claim occurred at L-2. You say you're noob to the role of miller, but give the impression that you have read extensively on themed game strategy. Also, why didn't you research the role when you recieved it? Any amount of miller research would reveal the "first post" claiming strategy. I can pull quotes for this if someone needs them, but an iso read should reveal the wishy washiness regarding Net's experience level.

By simply claiming miller you could have used your other abilities to towns advantage. As it stands, if you are who you say you are, then you are going to be nothing more than a distraction unless scum is extremely vanilla. Having watched the ani,e, I highly doubt that. I'm fine with you taking a shot, but you definitely should be lynched at some point. The only thing which confirms players in this game is a sane "godfatherless" investigation, or a flip.

[kikuchiyo]

Unvote

I am becoming convinced we have this wrong. I will post more tomorrow, but I don't see the Doom/saber scum connection anymore.

@ Archon: Yes, I am witholding thoughts I think may be more harmful than beneficial at this point. I will gladly revisit the subject when/if necessary and can offer loads of evidence for you. For now I have moved on.

[kikuchiyo]

kikuchiyo, what connections did you think you saw between saber and Doom?

Pretty old news here. I don't like this question at all. The buddying and defending between saber and Doom, and the discussion thereof, has taken up the majority of the day. Not quite sure how you missed it.

Your question seems "fluffy".

Looker: I think I kind of get what you're saying here, however, I have two issues. a) By not contributing yourself, you become part of the problem of "those who haven't posted much".
b) "Camping" an essentially random vote seems illogical and so too lends to your playstyle being a problem for town.
These two factors make you a perfect candidate for policy lynching. By making yourself available for policy lynch(if you are town) you are thereby distracting town from actual scumhunting. Make sense?

[kikuchiyo]

Why doombunny over Saber? Personally, I am fine with either, but would prefer Saber over doombunny.

Personally, I have been a bit sensitive to DB's consistent stance on saber being "failtown". I am not convinced they share alignments anymore. Not sure if that came through with my earlier post. I was planning on pulling up the numerous times DB has "slipped" in this regard, but I'm certainly not going to go to bat for saber on day 1. I just find Doom's aparrent knowledge of "alignment" a bit more telling. Six of one, perhaps, and half a dozen of the other, and I have been wrong before, so whatever.

[kikuchiyo]

Vote: Doombunny

This seems rather textbook, especially so close on the heels of Amished's educational post. But I digress. I'll let Looker continue this discussion on their own.

[kikuchiyo]

I find Doom a bit scummier, but it may be because we lynched saber in the newbie forum for similar behavior. However, meta does not a good defense make, so I am fine with lynching the slot.

I'll be honest I'd prefer to lynch Saber, especially if he's replacing out like that. It's a waste of someone else's time to come into a position that far in the hole. The replacement can't answer for Saber and it's just a liability later on with all the latent suspicion.

^^ Agreed here.

Doom has been far more contributive and his views have been respondent to people's behaviors.

^^ Not here.

Unvote, Vote: Saber

[kikuchiyo]

Unvote

Not without a claim.

[kikuchiyo]

I didn't even think of the claim when I agreed. I guess I do want a replacement then. Though I hate for them to read the entire thread and be lynched. That has happened to me and it sucks. Perhaps we could have the replacement roleclaim before reading? Not sure if the mod can send out such a request. The thought of no claim just doesn't sit well the more that I think on it. Honestly, the game of mafia is all "messy wifom", but I would hate to lose a power role because we are impatient. I didn't really weigh the ramifications here. Sorry, but I'm not getting back on the wagon without some resolution here.

[kikuchiyo]

Pretty old news here. I don't like this question at all. The buddying and defending between saber and Doom, and the discussion thereof, has taken up the majority of the day. Not quite sure how you missed it.

Your question seems "fluffy"

How is my question fluffy?

The question is fluffy because the buddying and defending between saber and doom, and the discussion thereof, has taken up the majority of the day.

You [kikuchiyo] never commented on what you saw between them. Your comment earlier was that you saw the connection between Doom and saber. Then with no word to say otherwise, you say that you no longer see the connection between them.

Amished laid out the details pretty well, I thought. Not sure what you are getting at here.

I'm not lynching without a claim. I don't like how enthusiastic everyone is, and I certainly don't like Doombunny's last post.

Vote: Doombunny

[/b]

[kikuchiyo]

Konowa: I believe he is referring to Doom.

Shotty: You don't want to be involved in lynching Doom straight up, but you will lynch Saber without a claim? I am not following here. Is Saber that much more suspicious to you?

Do jester's generally need to be lynched day 1 in order to win? Also, I don't think we should be directing the vig shot. Suggestions are fine, but to assume scum is without any power of their own is a bit ignorant.

[kikuchiyo]

Unvote

Seems like a reasonable claim. Furthers my belief that we should not be lynching Saber without a claim. I think its odd that Net is hesitant to shoot early, but willing to carry through the Saber lynch without a claim. It would basically be akin to a day-vig shot in that regard, so the thought process seems a bit incongruent.

Mod: Requesting replacement for Saberwolf. If this requires a deadline extension then I request that as well.

Working on it.

The main push against Saber/Doom was the implication that they were scum together. With Doom's claim, it seems as though it would be logical fallacy to continue pursuing Saber based on this. Understandably, the buddying may have been mutual, but my interpretation was that Doom was more guilty in the buddying department and I was willing to lynch DB as scum buddying to scum, or scum buddying to town. As it stands, I think Doom's claim weakens the case on Saber. I would much rather get a replacements take on the game in the player slot, than simply lynch them and hope they are not a power role. According to the flavor of this game, I would assume there are some fantastic powers on both sides of the coin.

[kikuchiyo]

536 is a bit silly. I think the implication there was clear. Its an easy fakeclaim as scum because scum could easily slide by with a reasonable number according to the flavor.

[kikuchiyo]

Hello Albert. I suggest you read up and post. Thank you for replacing. I have been in your place before and it sucks.

[kikuchiyo]

I need to catch up on the recent convo here. Still waiting on Al.

[kikuchiyo]

Vote: Looker

I am fine if she is jester. Get her out of the way. Its a wasted vig shot as far as I'm concerned, plus, I think its incredibly ignorant to assume that Net's shot is going to connect. It may, it may not. We are better off letting Net do what he thinks is right, when he thinks it, and judge from that point. As it is, he is acting anti-town imo, however, we should be able to garner more info by using him as opposed to lynching him.

We have three claims on the table, pushing ARB to claim may just further complicate the issue and lynching without a claim may also backlash for us. Last game I played like this we ended up outing four power roles on day 1 and lynching the town doctor.

Its day 1. Lynch the claimed scum.

[kikuchiyo]

Yessir. I thought we had decided on Neto. Fun playing with you ABR, I thought we would have had quite a good chance if I hadn't been nk'd. When you replaced I was really happy because I would have had to bus saber all the way. You gave me an out, but once I flipped I think it was obvious. We were kind of chuckling in the green room that ABR hadn't been autolynched day 2.