Mini 828 - ProzacMod 3 - Lost Mafia - Over
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Which votes were serious?
And yes, asking whether a wagon is serious or not is taking a pretty active role in derailing it, whethere you used the word "stop" or not.
Let me put this a different way then, what is your motivation in asking if the wagon was serious or not?YOUR AD HERE
Too busy with work to play mafia right now but I shall return some day!-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Anti-town at best.EmpTyger wrote:VP:
What do you think about Reckoner’s reaction to the LL bandwagon?
I think it is anti-town to derail a wagon that could potentially move the game from the RVS.Juls wrote:@VP Baltar and all questioning Drench: Are you questioning him because you think he is scummy for asking about the seriousness of the wagon?
Just where exactly where they doing that? Anyone can see that the issue Channel and locke were getting at was zoneace KNOWINGLY extending the rvs when there was really no reason for it.Juls wrote:NOTHING major HAS HAPPENED yet this game. So I really don't get how Channel and Locke are acting as if we have had some major scum slips going on.
Maybe it should be put another way: Do you really feel that nothing had happened that was worth commenting on? If so, why did you have things to say in your post even if you didn't random vote?
I'm not saying it is a scumtell, but I think it is a reasonable argument to make this early in the game and I'm not sure why you would want to tear it down or stop it.-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Ok, fair enough.Juls wrote:I saw Pokerface do something similar in Cowboy Beebop. It's a good way to get out of early game banter and see who is just making a bullshit case and who stands behind what they are saying.
I'm just using you as an example here, Drench, since a few other people said things along these lines, but I am not a fan of this line of thinking at all. Saying someone overreacted too much, therefore they are likely town is very silly reasoning.Drench wrote:I find it hard to believe that scum could get that much emotion into that.
Elaborate please.Drench wrote:jason is pinging the scumdar.
@Zoneace-When you were at L-4, did you really think it was a serious concern that four people who rapidly vote you? Why did you keep rounding up to say you were half way to a lynch?
@Jebus-do you think players should always provide original reasoning before joining a wagon?-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Well, then, what makes him more scummy than you if you're doing the same thing? Just because you say you realize this is the case, doesn't make it any less so. So, explain what the difference is.Drench wrote:I realize this, but just because a case has been stated elsewhere doesn't make it any less true or any less representative of what I think.
I find it even more interesting that you somehow divine I'm trying to "reassure" you about anything here. I said I am using you as an example because if I didn't say something along those lines, it would only be a matter of time before someone would come bungling along and say something to the accord of, "OMG, why are you picking on Drench when player X did the same thing? You must be on a scum team with player X!" When people say things like that it makes me bang my head against the wall...and I don't actually enjoy that. So, I'm saying you're all using the same crappy logic there and it should stop.Drench wrote:I find it interesting you felt the need to reassure me in the form of 'you're just an example'. Why was that?
btw,
Unvote, Vote Reckoner-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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No, my comment was not scummy. I was very clearly not serious, which you recognize (you think). In all of the games you have ever played in or read, how many players have been actually lynched over a reason like 'you're a spaz'? I'm going to use my amazing psychic abilities and say zero. My lack of voting for him should have also shown that I was not serious.curiouskarmadog wrote:how is quick lynching somemore for being a spaz anything but scummy? dont act like it wasnt. I understand it was in jest (I think), so all I said was noted. You feel your comment wasnt scummy? Please explain, if you wish to push the issue.
Now, judging by your reaction of wanting to sling mud over such a trivial and clearly not serious comment, I can come to one of two conclusions: 1) you were dropped on your head a lot as a child 2) you are scum
Since I think you're a pretty smart guy and your profile pic doesn't show any significant dents in your dome, I'm leaning toward the second option.-
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Because Reckoner has still managed to outscum you. Hurts to be second best, doesn't it?ckd wrote:then why are you not voting me?
That being said, I think you bring up a relevant point against LL.
That's one of the problems though, isn't it? As ckd said, you're leaving the door open to switch wagons if necessary.LL wrote:I indicated my doubts about Reckoner even when I put my vote on Jason.
Let me ask you this, what do you think of Zoneace going off the radar for awhile? Do you think makes him more or less scummy than you felt he was before?-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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See, that is my exact problem with what LL is saying here. I personally think Zone did the right thing stepping back for a few days to let the dust settle. Even if you want to say it is scummy, that is ok (though I don't agree). The problem is when you are taking both sides on the issue.ZONEACE wrote:Locke Lamora wrote: I think it was probably sensible for Zoneace to step away from the game for a bit, although having read some meta it seems that his response to the votes was fairly typical of him anyway. I think it's a little convenient that he disappeared just as more votes started to get put on Jason and attention shifted away from him. It makes him a little more scummy in my eyes.
So wait, It's sensible but scummy? So, I did what was best for the town, but clearly that makes me scum????
Could you TRY A LITTLE HARD TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS?! Why don't you just set it up so that you look good no matter which way you vote EVERYONE, set up a little thing like you just set up with me, so that no matter what happens, you don't look bad.
@LL-if it made Zone more scummy in your book, and he was one of your main suspects before he took off, shouldn't you be voting him? Explain to me how Reckoner's sheeping onto the jason wagon made him more suspicious than someone you had already found suspicious?-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Well, let us take a look at your case for a moment:Reckoner wrote:So, I'm scum for... voting jason, despite posting a case when asked to
What is the scum motivation for trying to move the game forward out of the RVS? How exactly is this jumping the gun? What should jason have waited for to make his vote on zone appropriate in your eyes?You hammered on the discussion on Zoneace being "late to the party" on serious discussion, which I think was very gun-jumping of you.
Not everyone plays as calm scum or acts like they have an aneurism when they are town...and since you don't believe in meta, this means a whole pile of squat.And in your unbearable back and forth with Zoneace, I got frustrated townie vibes from him, while I got the "calm and collected scum" vibe from you.
A misreading of a mistake is somehow unconvincing as a scumtell.Also, WTF.
tl,dr-Your reasons for voting Jason are heavily padded and it was a very opportunistic wagon to try and get on at that time.
tick tockDrench wrote:I can't promise a post today. I can promise one in 24 hours time. If I don't, you are free to throw polar bears at me.
Because Reckoner is being very opportunistic and not actually scumhunting. That's the difference. As far as Jason, definitely VI but I don't have a good read on his alignment yet. He has made some tremendously stupid statements that could have scum motivations, but he also seems to at least beJuls wrote:why is Reckoner more scummy than Jason for doing the exact same thing that you are voting Reckoner for? Or more succinctly, what are your views of Jason?tryingto hunt scum (however poorly executed those attempts are). I think there are probably better suspects to be pursuing at this time.
Ah, see, a prime example of this ridiculously scummy crap that is almost too hard to believe from jason:jason wrote:the fact he can say that he has already found scum... I would like to know how he is 100% sure I am scum... it is a pretty big statement to declare you have found scum.. It is almost like he knows 100% in that statement, that is why I asked can you be 100% certain as he declares I am scum-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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@ Emptyger:
This seems an earnest enough attempt at scumhunting, this seems like trying to question people's actual motives and get them to explain themselves, and this is him giving some sort of reasoning for a Reckoner vote (although some of it is regurgitated from other players and it was only after asked to explain it).
I'm certainly not saying he's playing a great pro-town game, because there are just as many examples where he is being scummy and him actively scumhunting has dropped off in times of being under pressure, but there are moments in his play that seem earnest to me.
This seems less true of Reckoner's play, imo.-
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xRECKONERx wrote:I'm good with my vote. It'd be nice to have an actual case against which I can defend myself instead of just "Reckoner's play is scummy" followed by votes.
Feel free to reply as you see fit.VP Baltar wrote:
Well, let us take a look at your case for a moment:Reckoner wrote:So, I'm scum for... voting jason, despite posting a case when asked to
What is the scum motivation for trying to move the game forward out of the RVS? How exactly is this jumping the gun? What should jason have waited for to make his vote on zone appropriate in your eyes?You hammered on the discussion on Zoneace being "late to the party" on serious discussion, which I think was very gun-jumping of you.
Not everyone plays as calm scum or acts like they have an aneurism when they are town...and since you don't believe in meta, this means a whole pile of squat.And in your unbearable back and forth with Zoneace, I got frustrated townie vibes from him, while I got the "calm and collected scum" vibe from you.
A misreading of a mistake is somehow unconvincing as a scumtell.Also, WTF.
tl,dr-Your reasons for voting Jason are heavily padded and it was a very opportunistic wagon to try and get on at that time.-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Why so impatient?Reckoner wrote:I'd like to hear what VPB thought of my response to his case on me.
Yes, but the town motivation of moving the game along is there, correct? How solid of a case do you think someone should be able to bring before voting that early in the game?Reckoner wrote:The reasoning wasn't solid, I'm saying. Scum motivation for trying to move the game out of RVS isn't there, but neither is any solid reasoning.
Your vibes are wrong. You don't have to read through pages of other games to check on these things. If player X always acts angry when questioned as town, then that should become less of a factor in your read of them being scum, correct? I'm not saying you have to discount your vibes, but you have to take them in context as well. Skimming a couple iso reads to look for something specific takes all of about 3 minutes.Reckoner wrote:Hey, guess what, you can get vibes from people without knowing their meta. I know, crazy, right? Because some Mafia players like myself don't have time to read through pages of old games just to memorize someone's playstyle.
A mistake was printed of jason instead of jacob. Jason misread this as an attack on him when it was really just a failed joke.Reckoner wrote:I failed to see how that was a misreading of a mistake.
My point is that you sheeped onto the case (which you attacked jason for earlier, iirc) and padded your case with bogus reasons to make it look less than completely obvious.Reckoner wrote:I agreed with the wagon and added some ADDITIONAL things that were bothering me re: Jason.
This is probably the least valid example available.zoneace wrote:The best example was his bringing up (i think) CDB's wiki entry. It made it look like he was doing something and being helpful, but in reality accomplished nothing.
Hey!porochaz wrote:Santos has replaced Drench
re:bussing talk---please stop. I hate bussing talk when there have been no alignment flips. Find scum and you can do wagon analysis later. Doing it now is more likely scum trying to fabricate reasons for voting, and/or working toward chain lynches. + scum points for jason especially-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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@ Reckoner
1) moving the game out of RVS is more likely to be carried about by town than scum. Plain and simple. More often than not, scum are not going to want to be sticking their necks out early in the game by going after people. They would rather wait for a secure wagon to form and then chime in to try and drive it through.
2) That's how I roll.
3) Ok, I dont' even care about this one that much, so agree to disagree.
4) Then why not just say you are voting him for other people's reasons? Yeah, it's not going to look that great, but it looks a lot better than fabricating some garbage to make your case look better.
5) See, I'm notthatunreasonable.
*scrolls down*
Juls wrote:Reckoner wrote:
*sigh* There's no pleasing you, is there, Baltar?
I can vouch for the truth of this comment (ok, sorry. will stop now. )
WHAT!!!!!!!
Awww, you know I think you're the tops...even if we both know every game has to end with us entering a winner-take-all bloodbath in the Thunderdome.Juls wrote:Could this be VPB and Juls agreeing on something for the first time in three games?!?!?!?! No way!-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Basically what I am saying is that it reads to me like scumhunting coming from Jason. The does not mean that I think it is good scumhunting, just that he seemed to be trying to his own ability level. I've never played with him before or seen him in a game, so I jumped on him early for "sheeping", but as the game has progressed that seems to be his modus operandi. In other words, my gut is telling me that jason would sheep as both town and scum.Emptyger wrote:So, which is it?
In other news, I don't quite buy your whole 'feeling out the weirdness' thing here. It's page 12 for crying out loud and you haven't voted anyone. What is your exact plan here, wait until deadline and then plunk down on the leading wagon?
Discussing something that has no logical reason to be believed either way is a major waste of time on D1. This is particularly true when you start going down the road that jason was heading where the 'bussing theory' was starting to become a scumpoint. In short: not all discussion is good.Emptyger wrote:Discussing allows the opportunity to rebut something that’s false, or to get on the table something that’s a possibility. There’s no guarantee that player who notices the possibility will still be alive after the reveal- or the players who would rebut it still be alive either. In short: discussion is good.
So you agree with me that it is a horrible discussion point? Why would you think it's a good idea to even bring to the table then?Emptyger wrote:You’ve said that LL is guilty because it seems like he’s bussing Reckoner…
And then you’ve said that LL is bussing Reckoner because they’re both guilty.
That couldn’t be more circular.-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Here is the post I'm talking about Zone. In fairness, Reckoner does come right out and say that its' from Desmond, so it may not be a breadcrumb at all. Just seemed that way to me when I first read it.
In other news, can someone who watched season 5 more recently inform me if the marshall who arrested Kate even makes an appearance in that season. If not, we have caught scum here.YOUR AD HERE
Too busy with work to play mafia right now but I shall return some day!-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Ok, comparing my pm I do have a very brief "history" line, but what Reckoner is claiming seems a bit too specific and most of my PM is more season 5 related...ugh, I hate PM analysis.
Of course, even if Reckoner is telling the truth, he is going to be dead tonight (though our lynch would still be better spent elsewhere if that is the case).
I want to hear the thoughts of the people who have not been vocal on this claiming business yet.
CDB, why did you back off so easily when his claim was so empty to begin with?YOUR AD HERE
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@Emp-I don't understand whatever you're getting at. I actually think your "the" vs. "a" argument is much more senseless. Please explain what is so odd about the questions that Juls or I asked.
re:Reckoner--I thought about it quite a bit this morning, and the best course of action might just be to let him live. If he really is who he says he is, then the scum are going to go after him tonight anyhow because they can't risk a guilty result. We are probably better served to use our lynch on Jason, whose reasoning for backing off the cop is basically verbatim of scum motivation. Jason is a big distraction anyhow and shouldn't make it to endgame.-
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Outguess the mod isn't all that useful of a game to play.
Reckoner, any comment on the episode text revealed above? Was it what you were expecting, not what you were expecting or do you consider it irrelevant to the question you were asked?YOUR AD HERE
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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This is somewhat of a misrep on my position. While I said I have read him as slightly more town than scum, I have pointed out several scummy actions from him and noted during the day that he is still a lynch option. I said I would haveEmp wrote:Your second choice for lynch is someone who you’ve been reading all day as innocent?preferredother people, but don't mistake that for me saying jason should absolutely not be lynched today. He is most certainly not playing a pro-town enough game for me to take that stance.
He hasn't exactly been helpful and I would see it as a policy lynch in some ways to end his distracting scumminess. While I'm inclined to believe that he is more likely to flip town, there is still a considerable enough chance that he is bungling scum for me to be comfortable with the lynch.
I don't speak in wishy-washy terms and fail to take stances unlike other players in this game. The flavor that Reckoner gave does not necessarily seem consistent with what is in mine. I find it quite healthy to question claims on D1, particularly something convenient for scum, like cops.Emptyger wrote:You seemed immediately sure about what information would and wouldn’t be included in a role, enough to conclude that Reckoner was lying. (The worst being “In other news, can someone who watched season 5 more recently inform me if the marshall who arrested Kate even makes an appearance in that season. If not, we have caught scum here.”) Not only do I not see any basis for that certainty, but my role at least doesn’t bear out the assumptions your making about flavor-matching, making me personally skeptical.
BTW, you any closer to actually coming to any sort of conclusions instead of sniping from the sidelines and committing to nothing?-
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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There have been some suggestions brought up already that would make a more logical fit. Sawyer definitely would be a good choice. However, like you said, it's outguess the mod, which is very dangerous territory.CKD wrote:if we do indeed have a cop...who (character) would it be? Also this is getting into a flavour/mod outguess debate.
Do you think questioning the cop claim is scummy?
Who do you think today's lynch should be?
Are you talking about the question from the mod in relation to the episode flavor?Reckoner wrote:I still don't quite get the question thrown at me, then.YOUR AD HERE
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VP Baltar he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Except you intentionally ignore where I explained why I don't think that detail fits given my PM, and instead try to charactarize it as "oh-wait-I-actually-do-have-something-like-it-in-my-PM". Your 'not gaining traction' theory is complete bullshit because the time between me saying the first and second thing was LESS THAN AN HOUR. If I was really trying to push that angle, don't you think I would have waited at least long enough for someone to log on and actually read what I wrote?Emptyger wrote:No, I don’t find it healthy to first state that a certain detail cannot possibly be in the role PM, then when that doesn’t gain traction reverse to oh-wait-I-actually-do-have-something-like-it-in-my-PM, then try to sweep the matter away by deciding outguessing-the-mod-is-a-bad-idea. Which you have done.
Also, I like how you are now stating that I'm covering something up, when I have done no such thing. Questioning the format of a role PM and outguessing the mod about what character would be which role are two very different things. If Jason flips scum, you are almost certainly his buddy.
Really? Wow, because I don't have much of a clue who you think is scum and who is not. This is your progression in this game simplified: you random vote, unvote, you pop in and ask some questions that never seem to come to a conclusioin, and now you want to pursue a lurker wagon. That's some pretty aggressive scumhunting you have going on there.Emptyger wrote:If you’re trying to slander me specifically, I challenge you to say what’s been wishy-washy, because I have been quite precise in pointing out exactly what I feel.-
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Surprisingly, I'm a sentient being and not every one of my thoughts is documented in this thread. The basic of it is that I posted the first line because his "history" line seemed to be quite disparate with my own. After some reconsideration, I decided I may have been jumping the gun there.Emptyger wrote:You 180 from being certain that something can’t be in a PM, to outguessing the mod is bad, and I’m not seeing any justification for this sudden reversal.
I don't see what is non-sequitar about it at all. Nor is it the same as what I was saying was wrong with people calling buddies earlier. Mine is conditional on jason flipping scum. Earlier people were making the argument that 'player X is bussing player Y', without seeing an alignment at all. Do you think these are really similar statements?Emp wrote:You have reasoning to go with this non sequitor? Or did I just do that good a job of convincing you that discussing pairings before reveals can be helpful?
The problem is that this far along in the day you should not have to be prompted to state your suspicions. This is exactly what I think is scummy about your play, and you can't really deny that it is taking place when before I asked you directly who you thought was suspicious, no one could have definitively stated any conclusions you had come to in the game.Emp wrote:I’ve stated who I think is suspicious, either by pointing out what they’re doing that’s suspicious, or by explicitly saying so. (Such as in [285] in response to your asking me, remember?)
Yes, it very much is different and I don't understand what anything I said about Jebus has to do with you not following up on your suspicions, other than this looks like a fairly poor strawman attempt. That line of questioning didn't seem to be leading anywhere, and I think it was obvious to anybody that I was more interested in Reckoner as the game progressed. You really think I haven't made my suspicions known this game?Emp wrote:Is that different from what you’re now attacking me for? Did I miss where that reached a conclusion, or did you just have no good reason for asking it in the first place?
Now, you are saying that after all of these questions you've asked throughout the day, you've reached a good conclusion with Jebus. Well, as I said before, I call shenannigans. You implied that your reasons for voting him are clear enough and are not just related to him lurking. Well, let us take a close analysis of those reasons.
Reason #1:
You question his post 143 as being hypocritical-
Jebus eventually responds-Emp wrote:So, Jason is suspicious to you because he simply restated and paraphrased others’ reasons without adding anything.
…yet you express your suspicion of Jason by repeating and paraphrasing others’ reasons without adding anything?
and you say you are "not satisfied" with his response.Jebus wrote:Second, in response to Emp from way back, that was laziness at 1:00 am, I really don't know what I was thinking then >.<
Reason #2:
He has lurked and hasn't caught up with the game.
Well, gee-whiz, after 15 pages and a million questions, that is certainly a great case you have there. I don't care what kind of weirdness you are professing as a hinderance to you playing the game, you are clearly fake scumhunting.Unvote, Vote: Emptyger
And just so you don't (falsely) accuse me of being hypocritical again if I don't state my reasons clearly, I shall put them in a convenient to remember format:- You are fake scumhunting
- You only put up a case when prompted, and it is majorly weaksauce
- You try to excuse your lack of scumhunting because of "weirdnes", when many other players don't seem to have a problem.
- You have made several attempts to call my points hypocritical, when that clearly is not the case
- You are expressing a strong obsession with semantics, a common scum tactic
I am extremely disappointed with the level of participation right now, but there are several players (CDB, Juls, Zoneace) who seem like they are genuinely scumhunting when they are here.Emp wrote:I’m curious: whose level of contribution (besides your own, I’m sure) fits your criteria?
mod, this game needs some major prodding. I know you said you would do it tomorrow, but I would prefer today if possible. ThanksYOUR AD HERE
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Replying to Emptyger:
1) The point is that your scumhunting seems to have no real direction. That is why I feel it is fake. I don't care how effective you think your questions are, they aren't reading that way to me.
2a) Yes you did only finally vote someone after prompted (twice) by me. I will quote it for your convenience:
Emptyger wrote:VP Baltar [349] wrote:
<snip>
BTW, you any closer to actually coming to any sort of conclusions instead of sniping from the sidelines and committing to nothing?
I’m reaching the conclusion that after 4 days absence, 6 days of I’ll-post-soons, and then finally a disavowal of what he was saying 10 days prior, it’s time for that pressurevote: Jebus.
2b) Again you are deflecting to a lesser point. I'm saying that if after 15 pages of a game the best case you can come up with is a mostly lurker vote on Jebus you are clearly not trying. You have considerable experience on the site, and I expect you are more than capable of effectively scumhunting. This fits nowhere near those expectations. Are you really willing to lynch Jebus over one single statement?
As far as if he has done something pro-town, no not much, but he hasn't really done anything scummy either because he hasn't hardly said anything this game. I don't see how anyone could have anything better than a null read on him.
3)
I fail to see how this addresses what I said about you excusing your lack of scumhunting. By "other players don't have a problem", I mean that no one else but you seems to be having so much trouble at least voting and saying who they would like to see lynched. Even though some of them have bad reasons for their wagons, they at least seem to be takingemptyger wrote:Unless, by “many other players don’t seem to have a problem”, you just mean that since they haven’t said anything opposing it, that means that they’ve completely analyzed it and don’t see any problem with it. In which case, well, many other players don’t seem to have a problem with “attempts to call your points hypocritical. I guess that means that many players think that you’re hypocritical.somekind of discernable stance.
4) And you failed to explain how my refutations to these in exampleswithin actual contextis wrong. Instead, you prefer to continue comparing apples to oranges, which is why I say your arguments are not the actual case.
5) No, you're arguing semantics and it's scummy. Reckoner's "a" vs. "the" thing is the most obvious example.
re: non-sequitor- Fine, I should have pushed the return key there so it wasn't so confusing for you. The point still stands.
Again, mine was conditional and Jason's was not. IF he flipped scum, you could be a likely partner certainly does have a logical flow to it. Talking about bussing taking place with no insight does not.Emptyger wrote:The point is that both you and Jason were making statements that 2 players were mafia together without any actual reasons connecting the 2. Just like Jason. And regarding Jason’s action, you had this to say: “Discussing something that has no logical reason to be believed either way is a major waste of time on D1.”
I find these questions rather irrelevant. Please explain how they are necessary.Emptyger wrote:If Jebus’s behavior wasn’t suspicious, then why did you ask essentially the same question?
If Jebus’s behavior was suspicious, then what in Jebus’s behavior since indicates that he’s innocent to invalidate the suspicion?
Hint: This is a mini-game. There is no way in hell there is multiple cops unless the mod is horribly stupid. That is most certainly not the case. Ergo: there aren't multiple cops and this is you pushing semantics.Emptyger wrote:No, you made an assumption that there’s no other cop in the game. That assumption didn’t come from your PM. I’m trying to figure out where it did come from. That’s hardly “useless”.YOUR AD HERE
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Glad you are sticking by this even though you quoted me prompting you just before you voted. I'm not buying your explanation at all here.Emp wrote: your prompting was not what prompted my vote of Jebus. His actions did.
How does me saying that there is no way you could have a read on Jebus at this time given his contribution thus far to the game translate into "there's no possible situation that any serious D1 vote on Jebus could be valid"? Blatant exaggeration.emp wrote:you seem to be implying that there’s no possible situation that any serious D1 vote on Jebus could be valid.
Really? How would you assess my involvement in the Reckoner wagon? Do I seem to be genuinely pursuing my case against you?Emp wrote:Well, after 14 pages the best you had was a bandwagon hop onto someone you had been defending until then.
This is some really BS selective quoting you have going on here. You asked for persons who met my expectations for contributions. I gave you three names. That doesn't mean I think there are only three players who are contributing. I have an admittedly high standard. Jason, CKD, LL, and Reckoner have all been regularly contributing, but it doesn't necessarily meet what I consider good contribution.emp wrote:Didn’t you just say that according to you, only 3 other players “seem like they are genuinely scumhunting”? Which is the “weirdness” I mentioned, in which far too many players are
The difference with your play and their play is that your attempts to scumhunt seem especially disingenious, which is why I think you are likely scum.
What I'm saying is that when you brought up every single one of those "contradictions" originally, I explained why, based on the context of my words, your accusations were incorrect. You then simply restated the "contradictions" again out of context, as if I had never addressed them in the first place.emp wrote:Or, am I supposed to say “Player X just did 1 or 2 or 3 contradictory things. I’ll ignore them because I’m sure X has a perfectly good contextual explanation for all that.”?
The anti-town motivation is that you are casting suspicion on both sides of an argument so you are guaranteed to come out on the "right" side of it later. Also, please quote for me where you "rebutted" anything Juls or I said about Reckoner's claim. All you did was say that me backing off my line of questioning was hypocritical.emptyger wrote:Let’s hear the antitown motivation for the following context:
Reckoner claims cop/Kate.
VP and Juls try to get Reckoner lynched because Kate doesn’t match cop and because marshall was mentioned.
EmpTyger makes up an attack on Reckoner while simultaneously rebutting the attacks that 2 others have against Reckoner.
How does that make any sense? Unlike, say, that I’m genuinely reacting to questionable statements made by each of VP, Juls, and Reckoner?
If jason flipped scum, I would suspect your "attack" on me as being a chainsaw defense.emp wrote:Why am I guilty if Jason is guilty?
Speaking of which, what is your opinion on jason anyhow? I don't remember hearing you clearly state which side of that argument you're leaning.
So, because I questioned one thing he said you think I have a scummy read on him? If that were the only criteria for me to consider someone scum, then pretty much everyone in the game would be a suspect of mine.emp wrote:You’re saying that my attack on Jebus is invalid because you “don't see how anyone could have anything better than a null read on him.” I’m pointing out that based on *your* actions, either:
You think he’s behaved suspiciously, or
You were doing the same thing you’re accusing me of doing.
So, that's answered, and your questions are still irrelevant to my original point that you haven't followed up on any of your suspicions in this game without provocation.
What do you place the odds at that this game has multiple cops in it?emp wrote:Do I think that that is definitely what happened? No. But I don’t see why a potential slip shouldn’t be dismissed just because it’s “semantics”. Do mafia never misspeak when they make up a claim?
I didn't see this anywhere in your post. Please quote me any single reason that you already brought up in the thread beyond his one line and lurking that you want to lynch him over.emp wrote:No, but I’m willing to lynch Jebus over his behavior this entire day. (and more on this below)
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This back and forth, while revealing, is getting a bit old. A wider variety of voices is definitely necessary. I think some more prods may be in need of going out and soon.-
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@emp-if it is alright with you, I am going to wait on responding to your points until we hear from some other players. If there is something specifically you feel absolutely needs to be responded to, I will, but I think this impasse isn't really making progress for the town at this point.
@Reckoner-why the switch back to wanting jason lynched?
mod, please prod Zoneace and curiouskarmadog-
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Who do you think is more scummy and why?Reckoner wrote:I never stopped wanting Jason lynched, I just wanted EmpTyger lynched more. I said I'm still partial to a Jason lynch, meaning I'd happily lynch either of them.
Thank you for sticking with us canadianbovine.
What do you think of Emptyger? Do you think he would make a good lynch today? If not, who would you like to see lynched today and why?
No problem...though you lose points for not sharing.jason wrote:I want to apologize for not being about as much lately, I started rehab in hospital recently and am doped up on what is effectively morphine!
What do you think of Emptyger? Do you think he would make a good lynch today? If not, who would you like to see lynched today and why?YOUR AD HERE
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I mean, I could respond to it because there are still points there that I disagree with you on, but I think it might be best if we leave that for now before it just becomes a huge distraction for the town. I think we've both made our points clear enough.emptyger wrote:Most of what I posted is a defensive response to your attacks, so if you don’t have response to it, then I’m done too.
You're welcome to call it that if you'd like. It doesn't nullify that is what you were doing. What is strange to me about you and jason, however, is that you seemed to be suspicious of jason, so I don't know why you would try and detract from attacks on him. With Jebus, I don't have much of an opinion either way yet, nor do I think attacking someone who clearly needs to be replaced is helpful to the town's end.emptyger wrote:I’d like you to explain how what you’ve done with Jebus isn’t the exact same thing you’ve said is a suspicious thing I’ve done to Jason.
I'm curious as to why Juls would help research a point that she claims to have disagreed with. Seems very strange to support a line of quetioning and then in hindsight call it bad.emptyger wrote:Also, what do you think about this?
Dear Everyone,
Stop talking about breadcrumbing.
Thanks,
The Management-
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I just realized that we have three days to deadline. We should probably start getting whoever we are going to lynch lined up so he/she would have time to claim and that claim be assessed properly.
Right now, I would prefer an Emptyger lynch for stated reasons; however, I would back a jason lynch for compromise purposes.
Reckoner can wait a night.
What say you?YOUR AD HERE
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When do you plan on catching up? How far along are you in your read? Do you have any opinions at all so far?
We are three days to deadline. I would prefer if you weren't replaced, but you have to at least participate somewhat and not just lurk until the night comes.YOUR AD HERE
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Zone, answer my question above please.
Jason, if you aren't going to full claim, you at least need to partial claim so there is something to assess. If reckoner is telling the truth about who he is, even if you are a PR it is unlikely you will be killed tonight. Scum cannot afford to have a cop around outting them or confirming town. Furthermore, zone is correct above. Without a claim you are most definitely going to get lynched, and if you have information we need to know before you die, it is going to hurt the town far more than it will help the scum.
I agree with emptyger above (imagine that!). Jebus and Santos need to post immediately. This lurk your ass off BS is getting old. Play the game if you want to play, or asked to be replaced. You're making it unfun for the rest of us. Regardless of what your alignment is, lurking is quite irritating.YOUR AD HERE
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Waiting. Unlike some others in this game*, I know I have seen you posting elsewhere. I doubt you're intentionally lurking, but we could use your input as soon as possible.CDB on Aug 19 wrote:I have read up to the end of Emp's 379, but I have to stop now - I'll read and comment on the subsequent posts later.
*stupid disabled search functionYOUR AD HERE
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