Mini 828 - ProzacMod 3 - Lost Mafia - Over

[ChannelDelibird]

Just got back from V/LA,

/conform

and reading up shortly.

[ChannelDelibird]

Vote: Zoneace

for posting as if the last two pages of discussion didn't happen.

I see signs of theoretical differences of opinion in the last couple of pages, not any real suggestion of scummy intent from any party.

[ChannelDelibird]

CD:

Vote: Zoneace

for posting as if the last two pages of discussion didn't happen.

I see signs of theoretical differences of opinion in the last couple of pages, not any real suggestion of scummy intent from any party.

If there hasn't yet been any "suggestion of scummy intent", what's wrong with still randomvoting?

I don't have a problem with Zoneace random voting at this stage, but I don't think that's mutually exclusive to giving his opinion on what's been said so far, even if it's him saying he doesn't think any of it is important. The lack of comment on the discussion so far suggests to me that he's happy to let it continue while he ignores it and stays off the radar.

[ChannelDelibird]

Also, getting people to put their opinions on record as often as possible = a good thing.

Hi, ZONEACE.

[ChannelDelibird]

I think it's somewhat scummy for you to act like it's still page 1 on page 3, yes. Even if you're saying NOT A FUCKING THING HAS HAPPENED SO FAR, which is a reasonable comment, then that's something, but ignoring it competely? No.

[ChannelDelibird]

ZoneAce's random vote/not commenting:

NOTHING major HAS HAPPENED yet this game. So I really don't get how Channel and Locke are acting as if we have had some major scum slips going on.

Don't misrepresent me, that's clearly not what I am implying.

kthxbai

Also,

Mod:

just some pedantry - there should be two 'n's in my username in the Vote Count.

[ChannelDelibird]

I have not problem with Zoneace random voting but I'm not going to random because I do find it a bit wasteful at this point. Some people just like to have their vote on somebody. I will, at this point at least, wait until someone does something that warrants a vote.

You can unvote, remember, there's no reason not to random vote (or even regular vote) at this point.

I agree, it's my opinion that everybody should pretty much always be voting on Day 1.

ZoneAce's random vote/not commenting:

NOTHING major HAS HAPPENED yet this game. So I really don't get how Channel and Locke are acting as if we have had some major scum slips going on.

Don't misrepresent me, that's clearly not what I am implying.

What

were

you implying?

My implications were made quite clear in my original post.

[ChannelDelibird]

ZONEACE, you have a few things wrong:

1) The case is NOT the random vote. It's completely ignoring everything else that was said.
2) 3 votes =/= a lynch. It's not even close.
3) You're suggesting that we all want you immediately lynched or not. I'm nowhere near certain enough that you're scum to want that yet. I just think your post was the scummiest one so far.
4) Games don't just lurch from the Random Vote Stage to the Concrete Case Stage. Early cases clearly aren't going to be enough for a lynch, and you're acting like we should either be random voting and shutting up or having cold hard proof that someone is scum.

[ChannelDelibird]

ZONEACE is playing exactly as he was in my Star Trek: DS9 mini (in which he was town). ZONEACE, could you tell me a game or two in which you were scum that I could go and read?

[ChannelDelibird]

Also, please, could you tone down the swearing a bit. I don't mind it occasionally but when it's every other word it's just irritating, not fun.

[ChannelDelibird]

I find them helpful

to an extent

. I have no desire to get into a massive theoretical discussion, though.

[ChannelDelibird]

Also, please, could you tone down the swearing a bit. I don't mind it occasionally but when it's every other word it's just irritating, not fun.

could you stop pushing a bullshit case? I don't mind legitimate reasons for voting, but using "you ignored the random votes before you" as a case is just irritating. not fun.

Cute, but not the same thing. I'm asking, politely, about your conduct and approach to the game. Whatever you think of my vote on you should not impact your consideration of others.

On the actual vote, the fact that there was a reasonably loud and obvious argument about some of the random votes was something that surely merited a comment, even if it was just "I don't think this argument is useful". It's not much, and I don't want you lynched over it, so please, stop jumping down my throat about it, but I think it's better than a random vote.

[ChannelDelibird]

Eh, this really isn't a big enough deal for me to want to bother hitting my head against this particular brick wall any more.

unvote

[ChannelDelibird]

Thanks for the links, I'll read some of 'em when I have the time.

[ChannelDelibird]

Jason is definitely setting in my crosshairs...

Unvote, Vote: Jason

Vote: Reckoner

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm good with my vote.

[ChannelDelibird]

By your own logic, Reckoner, I'm a cop.

So yeah, I agree with 171.

[ChannelDelibird]

This is one of the more interesting wagons I've been part of for a while.

(I'll be posting more tomorrow, but I wanted to say the above.)

[ChannelDelibird]

VP: in the context of a player freaking out and being abusive over a few votes, I think it's a good decision to step away from the game. Given that Zoneace often adopts that kind of attitude from players and that his decision to step away came not earlier in the argument but when attention had shifted to Jason, I found it made him a little scummier.

This is kind of having your cake and eating it too.

I'm still dubious about Jason moving his vote only after I prompted him but Reckoner is not doing himself any favours. 183 seems implausible to me; surely he would have read back and looked at what was said when people jumped on him for the role post? Not only that, but if he didn't really buy into it, why is he trying to excuse himself now? There's not much to say about 189, it's another worthless post.

Unvote; Vote: Reckoner

This is a bad bus. See, this is such a great wagon. 2 for 1.

So, I'm scum for... voting jason, despite posting a case when asked to, and misreading a quote by Baltar?

Yeah. Wagon reeks of scum. Time to sniff him out. Oh, wait, hello Jason. Already found him.

Yeah, if Reckonertown was looking at his wagon he'd be saying Locke here, not Jason.

Also I think you miss the point that the crucial words are 'when asked to'.

Can we find a better wagon please?

I doubt it.

[ChannelDelibird]

Reckoner, talk to me about Locke Lamora.

[ChannelDelibird]

I described my thoughts on LL at the bottom of the last page.

(despite giving my reasons a few posts later)

I like how you think this isn't significant.

[ChannelDelibird]

I haven't seen anything I think is particularly indicative of Jason being scum yet.

[ChannelDelibird]

His ZONE vote looked newby, without being more likely to be from newb scum than newb town. I don't really have a problem with his reasons or the lack of originality in them.

His Reckoner vote was better than yours.

[ChannelDelibird]

Better in that he wasn't transparently bussing him.

[ChannelDelibird]

As I said before, I questioned Reckoner a long time before I put my vote on him about his strange defence of Zoneace. What exactly about my Reckoner vote made you think I was bussing?

1) The fact that you had been questioning him for a long time but not voted before he had a large wagon.
2) When you did vote him you did it for his reaction to his post about my wiki stats, which is nothing to do with him being scum.

What were your specific reasons for voting Reckoner?

Post 157.

[ChannelDelibird]

The reasons listed in 179 and the earlier approach to the Zoneace situation were also part of my vote on Reckoner. I waited to vote because I wanted to continue pressuring Jason.

The reasons you listed in 179 were nothing more than that he was confused about a post he made after having a few drinks. That's nothing. His reaction to the ZONE wagon is interesting in that it's in tune with his attitude as a whole early on, in which most of his posts were about shooting things down (the LL wagon, the ZONE wagon, metas) rather than bringing anything new to the table. So you were on the right track there, but the fact that you waited until you had newer, worse reasons to vote him in order to vote him. The Jason wagon was meh, as I've said, and I don't think it was worth pursuing over Reckoner. This is consistent with a scumbuddy hoping the Reckoner wagon wouldn't fly.

So you voted for Reckoner for getting on Jason's bandwagon without giving any reasons?

Yup, though as I say his general attitude was also a problem.

[ChannelDelibird]

Because Reckoner didn't even try to copy. People forget that it is impossible to always provide original reason for a wagon, and I don't think there was any more that Jason could have added without reaching. Consequently I think it was reasonable for him to join the ZONE wagon while repeating reasons others had been said.

[ChannelDelibird]

I don't appreciate you using the word "disappeared", LL, which insinuates I am tactically lurking. Not interested in being slandered.

So what about Drench's comment here:

jason is pinging the scumdar.

FoS: Jason

.

No reasons until the next page after being prompted by other players. This is actually almost exactly what Reckoner does, just with a FOS instead of a vote.

You're right, this comment is scummy. I should have picked him up on it. I suspect the FoS, rather than a vote, is what made me miss it.

[ChannelDelibird]

It is weird that he says "don't know why, but I get the feeling he's bussing his partner". Could well be newbscum trying to look fashionable by rolling with the Lockebus theory. Makes me a little more reluctant on said theory. At this stage I think I'd still rather lynch Reckoner, but it's the first thing I've seen from Jason that seems noteworthily scummy to me.

[ChannelDelibird]

I just found it interesting that we were going back and forth fairly regularly, then when I made what I thought (and you have now agreed) is a good point, you didn't respond.

I left for lunch. (My last post yesterday was at 12:11pm, Dutch time)

[ChannelDelibird]

What ABOUT CDB and ZONEACE?

Touché. I started your wagon.

I feel much better about LL after his recent exchange with Jason. I think I could happily lynch Reckoner or Jason at this stage.

[ChannelDelibird]

unvote, vote: Jason

[ChannelDelibird]

CDB, why did you back off so easily when his claim was so empty to begin with?

I wasn't going to lynch him. I was thinking that the role name could be held back in case scum slip up and claim it, though in retrospect that was probably a faulty theory in this game. I was also in a game recently (here) where I helped to run Reckoner up on Day 1, was sure he was scum, and he turned out to be a power role, so I was willing to believe that I had made the same mistake.

Regarding the flavour claim: I can actually buy Kate as a cop. She doesn't let things go (and I don't really see a more obvious candidate for the role in the cast anyway).

[ChannelDelibird]

Regarding the flavour claim: I can actually buy Kate as a cop. She doesn't let things go (and I don't really see a more obvious candidate for the role in the cast anyway).

I can think of one person that would make more sense. Sawyer. In Season 5, Sawyer is head of security for the Dharma initiative. Cop is very close to security.

Yeah, that's plausible too, but not significantly more so that it makes Reckoner's claim unbelievable.

[ChannelDelibird]

Reckoner, he's talking about this game, I believe, not the one I linked to. (correct me if I'm wrong, Emp)

[ChannelDelibird]

Will post thoughts on the Emp/VP spat later today.

[ChannelDelibird]

I feel much better about LL after his recent exchange with Jason. I think I could happily lynch Reckoner or Jason at this stage.

Why?

Because I think he made a good case and argued it well. Not rocket science.

---------

Emp/VP:

Again, mine was conditional and Jason's was not. IF he flipped scum, you could be a likely partner certainly does have a logical flow to it.

Talking about bussing taking place with no insight does not.

You've said that I, for example, appear to be genuinely scumhunting. Doesn't this quote contradict that, considering that that's kind of what I was doing earlier?

(I don't really agree with you here anyway - the context you are referring to involved reasons why I thought Reckoner was scum, reasons why LL's vote looked specifically like bussing, etc, and I get the impression that this distinction is something you have perhaps-accidentally invented for the purposes of adding to your arguments against EmpTyger.)

And you seem to be implying that there’s no possible situation that any serious D1 vote on Jebus could be valid.

Agreed.

However, I don't think the semantic point you (Emp) are pursuing about "the cop" as opposed to "a cop" is helpful. In a mini, this is nothing. It

might

(possibly) be vaguely interesting in a Large game, but it's a reasonable assumption in a game of this size, even if he turns out to be wrong in that assumption.

-------

I have read up to the end of Emp's 379, but I have to stop now - I'll read and comment on the subsequent posts later.

[ChannelDelibird]

I have read up to the end of Emp's 379, but I have to stop now - I'll read and comment on the subsequent posts later.

Waiting. Unlike some others in this game*, I know I have seen you posting elsewhere. I doubt you're intentionally lurking, but we could use your input as soon as possible.


*stupid disabled search function

Yeah, I'm sorry, your argument with Emp was kind of putting me off. It's very tl;dr, and I don't really have any deep issue with either of you that makes me want to analyse it in detail. I'll try to up my participation, and if there's any particular part of that debate you'd like my thoughts on, I'll suck it up and wade into it again.

-------

unvote, vote: Jason

What about this unvote and change of vote here right after the cop claim? absolutely nothing to go on? no reasoning what so ever?

you want to hound me for that.. there is alot scummier unvotes than my one

Wow, way to make it look like this wasn't anything but a logical progression of my thoughts after Reckoner's claim. You're clutching at straws here.

-------

Jason's desperation not to claim does kinda seem in keeping with overzealous newbie doctor, though I really, really disliked his SSSSHHHH I'M BREADCRUMBING DON'T MIND ME posts earlier.

Am I the only one who is unsure why he spelt Richard Alpert's surname wrong in his claim?

I'm really not sure which way to go on this one. Jason's done plenty of things wrong and plenty of things I'd consider scummy but his determination not to claim seems in keeping with his role...

[ChannelDelibird]

Yes, Jason, they are making sense. Your dismissal of VP Baltar for being concerned about the scum not being able to win isn't fair - he's referring to the fact that the mod is obliged to make a game in which both the mafia and the town have as similar as possible a chance to win, so if he thinks an element of your claim could contradict that guiding principle, then it's a legitimate concern as to the validity of your claim.

Personally, I can see where you're coming from, VP, but I'm not sure the meta is so widespread that it would be worth lynching our claimed cop D1 over it. Certainly, I don't think we can rule out a doc that can protect a cop in this game.

[ChannelDelibird]

At the risk of sounding wishy-washy, I'm really torn on both of them. Both have been genuinely scummy, IMO. Jason's claim is probably a little more believable (

unvote

by the way, should have done so earlier), as I've said... I think I would rather look elsewhere altogether, but I don't know where to start. I'll take a gander at other options ASAP.

[ChannelDelibird]

Heck, this game's moving fast right now. I'd really like to see a

Vote Count

before I decide for sure (I'll do an unofficial one myself if the mod can't get here soon) but Reckoner's post 525

really

pings my scumdar again. I'd also like clarification as to the exact deadline as there seems to be some confusion, but I think now I could lynch Reckoner. When I know how the votes look, I'll put my own down, unless Jebus now has a bigger wagon (don't think so), in which case I'll vote for him. Not wild about a Jebus lynch but not as frustratingly torn as I am on Reckoner and Jason.

[ChannelDelibird]

Unofficial Vote Count

Jebus - 3 – Emptyger, Reckoner, canadianbovine
VP Baltar – 2 – Jason, Santos
Reckoner – 2 – Locke Lamora, VP Baltar
Jason - 1 - Zoneace
Locke Lamora - 1 - curiouskarmadog

Not Voting:
Jebus, Juls, CDB

Jebus has a bigger wagon, technically, but, dammit, Reckoner's flat-out scummier.

Vote: Reckoner

.

[ChannelDelibird]

Mod:

when exactly is deadline?

[ChannelDelibird]

Reckoner's all over the place. It seems highly implausible that he would investigate VP Baltar over Jason or EmpTyger, and it is also ludicrous that a cop who is speculating about his target being a rolethief would forget that target.

Vote: Reckoner

. Lynch-1.

Santos is just being silly.

[ChannelDelibird]

unvote

. We do have time.

[ChannelDelibird]

CDB:
Why is Santos “just being silly”? That’s awfully dismissive of something that should be relevant, to whatever alignment Santos has.

I'm not sure I agree - I think assuming Kate must be pro-town and blindly defending a claimed Kate is just plain stupid, and is not particularly indicative of alignment.

(No offense intended, Santos, but I don't think this is your finest hour.)

[ChannelDelibird]

CDB, your lurking is officially scummy now. Congrats.

Awesome. However, I don't think you're taking into account a) the pace of the game, which is accruing at least a page per day at current rate, and b) my level of activity generally. If you compare my posting rates in Slicey's Pokemon Mafia and /in-vitational 3 (the other two games I am currently alive in), you'll see they're roughly the same.

I'm not saying I'm posting as much others are or that I couldn't post more, just that it's not inconsistent.

I'll take a look at canadian in iso to see if I get the same impressions you did. I'm wary that canadiantown was lynched as town recently for not being the sharpest tool in the box, though, as Reckoner should be, seeing as he was in that game as well.

Still in favour of a Reckoner lynch. He's tripping over his stories increasingly elaborately.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm wary that canadiantown was lynched as town recently for not being the sharpest tool in the box, though, as Reckoner should be, seeing as he was in that game as well.

link?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11658

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm wary that canadiantown was lynched as town recently for not being the sharpest tool in the box, though, as Reckoner should be, seeing as he was in that game as well.

link?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11658

My mistake, he wasn't lynched, but he was heavily suspected.

[ChannelDelibird]

a) You can't 'lean towards' knowing anything. You either know or you don't.
.) You don't.
b) Exactly how is ZONEACE rolefishing? He's just expressing suspicion of you.

[ChannelDelibird]

I fail at formatting, but you get the idea.

[ChannelDelibird]

I get the feeling that canadian is being stubborn for stubborn's sake. It's annoying. Stop it.

[ChannelDelibird]

Sorta LA notice: I'm busy all day playing cricket in Gouda. I'll give my thoughts tomorrow.

[ChannelDelibird]

Sorry, I got sucked into playing Civ 4 and, well, you know how it is.

Have just read up on what I missed (skimmed a little so will probably go over it again). Couple of things:

1) Why is Reckoner hating on CKD so much? I don't see any reason why he should be.
2) Didn't CB blatantly crumb one of the Koreans on Day 1? What the hell was that about then?

[ChannelDelibird]

Reckoner:

I also don't like the pushing for a Lockewagon. RV on Locke, okay. Pushing for a wagon on the basis of obvious scum, no.

Who has been “pushing for a wagon on the basis of obvious scum”, rather than RVing?

[says to someone who hasnt posted yet]

그는 그녀를 좋아하는 그녀가 알고 있는것 같아요 ?

[ChannelDelibird]

Knowing what it says does not explain why CB wrote it.

[ChannelDelibird]

CDB-I don't think I have a very clear indication of who you think is scum. Little help here.

I agree that CB is appealing to emotion rather than honestly defending himself.

I want to hear from CDB on that issue, since he has experience with him. If anyone else has experience with CB, please pitch in your two cents here if you think this fits his town or scum meta.

While I don't think he's today's lynch anymore, I'm still wary of Reckoner. Santos can vouch for his ability having changed since returning to the island, but unless I've missed it I don't believe he said he knows for sure whether only town could have their abilities changed in this way - considering the twist-filled nature of the show, I find this unlikely, and therefore not necessarily clearing him. There are too many unanswered questions about how these role changes work, etc, to lynch Reckoner today anymore, though, I'd wager.

So with that, I'm still trying to decide who I think I'd rather lynch today. My initial instinct is not to lynch CB - he's posting much the same as I remember from Save The Mafia. I would say he's less apologetic than that game though, where he made an early goof which everyone kept referring to, but I don't really see any comparable reason for him to act apologetic in this game. I'm still waiting to hear a satisfactory explanation for his Korean crumbing, though, which I am a little suspicious of.

I might have to have another look at EmpTyger (that's not an accusation, more thinking out loud at this stage).

Channel, what is your opinion on name claims and would you believe or not believe the flavor indicating alignment?

CDB will do fine.

The answer to this question is implicit in the title of the game. As a rule I wouldn't take flavour as an alignment indicator in any game anyway, but in a Lost game? Definitely not. As a moderator I never go with the obvious names-to-roles, so I don't assume that other mods will.

[ChannelDelibird]

So with that, I'm still trying to decide who I think I'd rather lynch today.

Well, it sounds like you'd prefer a reckoner lynch, correct?

My gut says lynch Reckoner, my head says not. I'm looking at alternatives.

[ChannelDelibird]

No mod-question for me yet.

ckd and juls are sun and jin..

there was implied that they are related somehow.

usually in a lovers/brothers/ w/e situation, one is town, and one is scum..

CKD is sure that i am vt because our role pms match up, so im going to.

Vote: Juls

This is a terrible post. We've spent virtually this whole thread agreeing that outguessing the mod = bad, and now you not only assume that a) Sun and Jin are lovers in this game, but also that b) one lover in EVERY pair must be scum. And the whole thing is done without any actual evidence against Juls. This is desperate, forced, and futile.

It also appears that CB can't satisfactorily explain why he thought it prudent to post in Korean. It now looks strongly to me, after the above proof that CB is partial to a bit of mod-outguessing, that he thought Juliet was a risky name to claim, and was crumbing someone more acceptable. I think I could lynch CB today.

In other news, Santos makes me want to bash my head repeatedly against a brick wall. A CB-Santos scumpair makes some sense.

Next post: looking at non-CB cases.

[ChannelDelibird]

CKD

- I wouldn't call his confusion over "what claim?" scummy. The vote on VPB who calls him out on it seems like an overreaction to me, though. The "wager" with VPB is bizarre. I can't see much reason to do it as either town or scum, so I'm just going to write it off as one of CKD's eccentricities and ask him to drop it.

Juls

- Emp brings up an interesting point when he shows the timing of Santos' promised theory and Juls' happiness to lynch CB. I'm interested to see how Juls explains this.

I'll go and do an unofficial vote count before placing my vote, but it'll almost certainly be for CB.

[ChannelDelibird]

Unofficial Vote Count

Curiouskarmadog - 2 - xRECKONERx, Santos
Canadianbovine - 1 - VP Baltar
VP Baltar - 1 - CKD
Juls - 1 - canadianbovine
Santos - 1 - ZONEACE

Not Voting - 3 - CDB, EmpTyger, Juls

So in that case I'm definitely going to

Vote: canadianbovine

.

[ChannelDelibird]

Welcome back, CDB! I like your 1099. I'm not as big of a fan of:

The "wager" with VPB is bizarre. I can't see much reason to do it as either town or scum, so I'm just going to write it off as one of CKD's eccentricities and ask him to drop it.

Which looks a bit like coaching. What is your read on ckd at this moment? Do you think he is more likely to be town or scum (based on his overall play, not just the spaz attack)?

Right now I'm leaning town on CKD.

[ChannelDelibird]

If you had to pick three scum, who would they be and why?

1. CB - 1099 contains my reasons here.
2. Exactly one of Santos and Juls. Leaning more towards Santos right now, who tried to goad the town into a massclaim, but Juls' apparent attempts to stop Santos from speaking before a CB lynch went through are interesting too. Given Juls' actions there I can't see her as scum with Santos, but both are plausible with CB.
3. Reckoner - I'm still uncomfortable. I've made clear how scummy I think he's been and I don't think he's as confirmed town for having his role change when returning to the island as Santos seems to think he is. (Santos vouching for him like that doesn't exactly fill me with confidence anyway.) Actually, during the process of writing this paragraph I'm getting more tempted to lynch Reckoner. But that can wait for another day.

[ChannelDelibird]

You'd be right if:

1) Santos had explicitly said they were lovers.
2) Juls had shown any sign of reciprocation. (this is a real biggie. There's no sign of Juls showing any similar reaction to the Sun claim.)
3) Lovers could ONLY be 1 scum, 1 town.

Also, why Juls over Santos?

[ChannelDelibird]

You'd be right if:

1) Santos had explicitly said they were lovers.
2) Juls had shown any sign of reciprocation. (this is a real biggie. There's no sign of Juls showing any similar reaction to the Sun claim.)
3) Lovers could ONLY be 1 scum, 1 town.

Also, why Juls over Santos?

at this point it has become a pressure vote on juls. if roles were based on show, i would be voting Santos, because Sun would be in my mind a mafia usurper [trying to kill ben].

Santos implied there was something. we dont know what that something is.

What? "Pressure" isn't a good reason. Why is Juls more likely scum to you than Santos?

[ChannelDelibird]

What? "Pressure" isn't a good reason. Why is Juls more likely scum to you than Santos?

i've learned from a past game of you and i that repeatedly voting/unvoting people results in trouble for me.

in my incorrect idea, CKD was more town then Juls, so i voted juls.

now, its staying there until i know the relationship between them unless something else pops up.

Only if it's done for the wrong reasons.

So are you saying that you actually think Santos is more likely to be scum then Juls?

[ChannelDelibird]

Oh, and no questions for me today.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm returning to the UK on Thursday and will be busy tomorrow packing for said trip and Friday sorting out moving in to my student house, so consider me V/LA from now until Saturday.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm still here. I am replacing out of a couple of games as getting back to uni has had more impact than I thought it would, so that I can put enough time into this game and the /invitational.

Santos' claim is annoying (if I had been making the same gambit in his assumed position, I would not have revealed myself yet) but it does go some way to explaining his behaviour. To clarify, though, Santos - are you directly responsible for Reckoner's losing his ability?

As far as MyLo/LyLo goes - I'm not sure why we need a semantic argument over it, seeing as our goal today is still the same.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm pretty sure Santos is reading ZONEACE wrong - the getting angry about being near to a lynch is just a ZONEACE tell, not a role tell, that I'm fair sure.

I think I agree with VP Baltar that we should only be lynching from the list {VP Baltar, Juls, CKD, CDB} today. While I still have one or two nagging questions about EmpTyger, they're not pressing.

My first thought from that list, once I'm removed from it, is VPB/Juls. VPB's miller claim is convenient (though not implausible) and I have struggled to get a clear read on him all game. His frequent, vociferous backing of Juls as town-by-nonspecific-meta makes them a more likely pairing IMO than CKD, who, it should be obvious, would be a deeply, deeply unlikely (and ballsy) scumpartner. I'll try and go back and look at VPB again.

[ChannelDelibird]

i've been in bed all weekend with a bad case of freshers' flu (still am) and not really capable of coherent thought. i know this is terrible timing but i will try to post as soon as i am able to concentrate.

[ChannelDelibird]

I can just about look at a computer screen again without feeling queasy (while I know it is frustrating for everyone, it is definitely more frustrating to be feverishly hallucinating, so <3 those who were asking for prods.), so I am back. I skim read the last two pages but I will go back and do so properly.

Has BM actually said anything yet? (Hi BM!)