Mini 686 - Chess Mafia (Done)
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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Ok, I'm gonna look over the given suggestions of this day. But I've seen that Qf3 has a lot of support. I haven't read why yet, but from the look of that last bord given, it would give the rook on the f-line a lot of freedom. I don't see why we want that. It would result into a giant attack on the knight, which only the rook and the queen can protect. The rook is easy for black to take down, leaving two black pieces (the queen and the rook) to attack the knight with only the defence from the queen. Leading into a knight win for black or a knight and queen with as return a rook.
The other option would be to get the knight into safety, which would lead into a giant battle among the pawn at f4. And again, black seems to win that as they would have 4 pieces to attack, while we can only defend with 3 pieces (once again, the rook that is now at e6 can't do a thing).
Either this line of thinking is wrong, or I'm not seeing something that you are seeing.
tl;dr
In my opinion, Qf3 will lead into a lot of destruction at the least. At most, we'll lose.Ignore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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First move, Rhe1.
I'm not in favor of it. As pointed out by IH, rook will go to f8, resulting into an attack from the black queen against the knight. Either a defence from h4 (resulting into fxg3 for the bishop to attack and/or an opening for the black rook), a defence from the rook (which results into a bishop - rook loss), doing nothing and let him hit (resulting into an attack around f4 again) or we leave (resulting into a battle around f4 as well)
So the only move that might be useful is the defence from the rook. And even that one is bad.Ignore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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Uhm, it's been a while since I've last played chess. So it's possible that my assumption is wrong here, but at the dots is what should be our move, right?Emptyger wrote:I don’t really see the point of moving the h-rook. 25. Rf1 is disastrously bad: after 25… Rh6, we can’t protect against all of 26… Qxg5, Rxe6, and Rxh2+. And I don’t see any “killer attack” after 25. Rhe1 Rf8 26. Rh6. What I do see is 26… Qxg5 27. Rxd6 (am I missing something better?) fxg3+ threatening 28…gxh2. Still looking at 25. Reh1 Rf8 26. h4, but don’t see anything obviously good here.
If so, I don't see what your problem is with Rf1.Ignore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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I don't get this one. Why wouldn't black do f3? If our queen hits the pawn, wouldn't the bishop come into play at f4? Queen can't hit him or we'll lose her. Which means we lose our knight as the king has to leave, and the next move for us, the queen will be attacked. If she doesn't move to e2, we'll also lose our rook at the e-line.Goat wrote:g4
Booooyah. We give black the passed pawn, but f3 is a veritable minefield, so I don't see black advancing that bad boy any time soon. g4 prevents black from being able to gain any possible advantages in terms of fxg3 shenanigans. It also allows us to play h4 and continue our onslaught on black's kingside.
Errr...damnit. Never mind. I think this move fails to Rxe6.Ignore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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In other words, we have to trust you blindly. It's indeed a good move, IF we can first get rid of the rook at the f-line.EmpTyger wrote:Goatrevolt:
I don’t see a response that doesn’t result in them losing at least a pawn. And I would rather not explain which lines lose more and which lose less- and I don’t have the time for anyhow, and we're too close to deadline besides. So I would like to instead make the following statement:
I am confident enough to stand behind Qf3 with my life. That is: if we lose material as a result, then if we later are forced to resort to lynching, I will offer myself as the first lynch.
Can anyone else say that about the move that they are advocating?
Also, that statement doesn't mean a thing.Ignore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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So my preferences:
1) Rf1
2) Kd1
3) Rhe1 - If it can be proven that black will trade the rooks at e6 and f6, I'll switch to this one.
4) Qf3 - Good move, if used later after one of the above three mentioned moves.
5) g4 - Either you are seeing something I'm not seeing or I hope that this was a joke.
Move: Rf1Ignore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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Ok,IH
explain this now:
The only difference here is that the Rook is not Rf1, but at Re1. But the black rook still went to f8. In your situation, you've proposed h4 to defend our knight against the black queen. But ever since we have the discussion about Rhe1, you haven't mentioned it at all. How come?Indigo Heron wrote:
h4 protects the knight from a discovered attack instigated by Black's queen.ZazieR wrote:
Why h4?Indigo Heron wrote:...My response for Rf8 was responding to Rhe1. Anyways,
Rf1 Rf8 h4.Ignore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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Nxh7>g4Abstract Actuary wrote:Wow, that was a ridiculously long night for what I think was basically a forced move.
Ok, our plan was Nxf7. My "secret" plan was g4 immediately. I'll bold that move tomorrow unless someone sees a problem with it. I don't see much reason to discuss all the consequences at this point unless you see a problem with a line. We should keep all of our threats close to the vest if we can. All they have to miss is one of them.
If someone points out a refutation that is obviously flawed, then don't explain why.
It's that simple. I'll gladly point out why if needed.
Nxh7Ignore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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g4 is fail to play at this point. Hint: Black pawn that stands at f4 right now.veerus wrote:i don't want to sac the knight now..it's too early and way too unneccesary.. (at least i assume that you meant Nxh7 not Nxf7)
also, what's your response to 28. Nxh7 Qf7.. none are satisfactory and all stall our attack big time
move: g4
we need to force the issue now
Also, explain the bolded part (I know what 'saccing means', I want you to explain how Nxh7 will sac the knight, but g4 won't)Ignore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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I'm pretty sure friday comes after wednesday (Days of posts my time). Why haven't you bolded your move, while you said you would?Abstract Actuary wrote:Yes, I meant Nxh7 as our previous plan, sorry.
Hmmm. Don't you see the superiority of g4?Indigo Heron wrote:I will stick by my move.
move: Nxh7Ignore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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Ok, now I understand why you are ignoring my question: Your blindVeerus wrote:3. Nxh7 isn't a sac under the line i showed however it is a sac for your purposes since i'm assuming you expect the king to capture the knight (and losing a knight for a pawn is a sac.. and a poor one at that)
See what that move leads to.
Also, I don't know if we'll gain material, but Nxh7 leads to a strong attack, which I don't see g4 doing.Ignore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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So that black can look at what to do? Sureveerus wrote:what's the flaw with the line i showed then? show me how that leads to a stronger attack.. you and your scum-buddies are obviously trying to persuade everyone away from the better move and i would like the rest to see how wrong you are
If you can't see how the position in Post 1308 doesn't lead to a win, you're either scum or you need to look better.Ignore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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There are some players absent. So any player that votes Nxh7 is an extra voted, which is good to reach that majority.EmpTyger wrote:ZazieR:
Why do you care so much if veerus understands? We don't need unanimity, just a majority.
Also, 9 players = 2 mafia. Why would you think 3?
When I think of 'mini game' regarding mafia, I think of a twelve-players game with 3 scum. Seems this is one of those exceptions ._.Ignore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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Disagreed. Nxh7 can lead to two results, of which both will lead to a powerful attack for white. g4 can lead to may different scenario's, in which the worst leads to material gain, but with no powerful attack left.AA wrote:The line posted in 1308 is not a very powerful attack at all. Very similar in strength and even position to what will happen after g4, while we have a much better material advantage after g4. It is as simple as that.
I prefer the first.
Also, if played well (Which is very likely to happen) Nxh7 will lead to a better material gain.Ignore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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Even if black doesn't play the move Veerus showed, it has only one other option to save its queen from our knight. Which also has good results for us.RayFrost wrote:based on what I can see into each of the moves, I can see the attack that Zaz is thinking of that would actually be pretty good, despite the piece disadvantages. It'd be a good end game position for white and would likely promote a win if played correctly (with very little chance of black successfully retaliating... unless they can see where it is headed as well).
move: Nxh7assuming black plays as shown by veerus, it's a really good move that's not very obvious at first.
actually pointing out the sequence in question after this would be telling. Put simply:
I agree withYos2Zaz
And I like the last sentence ^.^ It makes me sound as a famous player XDIgnore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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Didn't know that I'm a "famous" scummer O.oRayFrost wrote:
I thought you were a "famous" scummer?ZazieR wrote:
Even if black doesn't play the move Veerus showed, it has only one other option to save its queen from our knight. Which also has good results for us.RayFrost wrote:based on what I can see into each of the moves, I can see the attack that Zaz is thinking of that would actually be pretty good, despite the piece disadvantages. It'd be a good end game position for white and would likely promote a win if played correctly (with very little chance of black successfully retaliating... unless they can see where it is headed as well).
move: Nxh7assuming black plays as shown by veerus, it's a really good move that's not very obvious at first.
actually pointing out the sequence in question after this would be telling. Put simply:
I agree withYos2Zaz
And I like the last sentence ^.^ It makes me sound as a famous player XD
Also, I was merely examining the move choice made by black in Veerus' line of reasoning. It looks to me as if he doesn't see the options available.
But anyway, Veerus is just trying to discredit the move as he knows how destructive it isIgnore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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How many times does it have to be stated that a powerful attack for white > material gain.veerus wrote:Yes, my line isn't the only possible option, but others aren't much better either and some still end up moving g4. If we do it now, we don't provide black with some material cushion for the likely loss of the rook.
And even if you disagree, Nxh7 can easily lead to a better material gain than g4 can give.Ignore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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Sorry, it's just frustrating that we can't play sucg a good move as Nxh7 as the remaining players who can move for it are either objecting or absent.EmpTyger wrote:ZazieR:
Take a breath and close your mouth. You're trying to argue an argument that's already been won. If someone has something to say, let them say it- until then, there's no reason to give play advice when only 2 players are objecting.
And there isn't much else to discuss ._.Ignore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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But I'm not English. (Don't ask me where I'm from though as that language is even closer to German than English >.<)
Also, I have troubles with the German words. French words are easier in my opinion. But grammatica are easy in both languages ^.^ (That was when I studied it... Now, I can't remember what everything is ._. Though I can almost count completely from 1 - 20 in French )Ignore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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Agreed with the second paragraph.Indigo Heron wrote:I smell the other scum partner amongst the two of you.
In any case, TCS, neither move is L-1, so not much to worry about. If you don't want to vote on a move, at least discuss and debate about Nxh7 v. g4, or throw out new moves if you think you see them.
Also, if one of Veerus and AA isn't scum, it's very likely ah is scum.Ignore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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Disagreed. You have 'showed' that Nxh7 doesn't lead to an attack. Would g4 have lead to an attack? Because if it does, I don't see it. Nxh7 does.veerus wrote:yes, as something that wasn't great for white.. but whatever, i guess we'll see how it plays out since it'll obviously win at the deadlineIgnore the ''R''-
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ZazieR Jack of All Trades
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Two things:The Central Scrutinizer wrote:I am an idiot.
g4 is a better move by far from what I can see. The lack of response to my query regarding Nxh7 Qf7 seems to indicate to me thatwe don't have one.
The more I look at this the more I wonder how this debate is even happening. Nxh7 is aggression for the sake of aggression, with our pieces in shitty position. g4 puts our pieces in better position.
Also in case anyone was wondering, en passant would not be a legal next move for black in the position resulting from g4. I say this because I'm stupid and thought it was, writing g4 off earlier.
move:g4
-What better position? The way I see it, Nxh7 continues our attack, while g4 destroys it.
-If I'm correct, you mean with 'your query' the question asked in Post 1383, right? Because if you do, I seriously don't like Post 1387. Only one of the four supporters of Nxh7 posted in between the time frame of the two just mentioned posts. And the one he showed is good. You're trying to discredit Nxh7 based upon three supporters of Nxh7 not posting in between a specific time frame. That doesn't mean that there isn't a countermove present.Ignore the ''R''-
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