Mini 828 - ProzacMod 3 - Lost Mafia - Over

[jasonT1981]

Confirmed

[jasonT1981]

vote:xRECKONERx

The whispers in the forest told me to do so

[jasonT1981]

Let me put this a different way then, what is your motivation in asking if the wagon was serious or not?

To be honest, I find it hard to believe any such wagon would be serious at this stage of the game.

[jasonT1981]

To be honest, I find it hard to believe any such wagon would be serious at this stage of the game.

Are you a Drench alt?

Not really, I was just making the point.... No bandwagon at the RVS is serious, and you are not going to get a lynch out of it... however it can be good information to go on as in who hopped on and off etc.

[jasonT1981]

vote vp baltar

for being the last person to post before i posted.

We had been getting into serious discussion now, seems a bit weird to be a random vote knowing this... but shrug whatever really takes your fancy.

We're two pages into a game with 12 people, lets all stop acting like we're out of the random voting stage.

Well, random stage or not there was still alot of conversation that could be useful. Kinda seems you are trying to keep away from serious discussion and keep things random right here.. but thats just how I see things.

I just think its silly that you think its scummy for me not commenting on the fact that NOT A FUCKING THING HAS HAPPENED SO FAR.

I tend to disagree, a wagon formed, deformed and conversation had srtarted properly by the time you had posted this.

So yea right now I feel comfortable doing this, it seems Zoneace doesn't really want to acknowledge the goings on in the game and just wants to argue all is random and has no meaning, or nothing has happened... at least thats my take on things right now.

unvote
vote: Zoneace

[jasonT1981]

I also appoligize for not being about, had a few personal issues over the weekend there that prevented me from posting properly. Now I am back for the most part I am interested in Zoneace's postings as you can tell.

[jasonT1981]

Zoneace, calm down please... while yes while alot of what I said had been said before I was just trying to put my own take on things into the game.. alot of times you will find people have the same things to say and just put them in their own words.

Zoneaces reactions since my vote haver eally interested me, it kinda feels like a rabbit caught in the headlights not knowing where to go... I don't know... just seems a bit like it to me.

Zoneace, there is nothing personal here, please stop the name calling etc.. I simply put what was used against you into my own thoughts and words. Is There anything wrong with that?

[jasonT1981]

Zoneace, calm down.. this is a game, no need to turn it personal.

[jasonT1981]

What about the other 2 voting you Zoneace? anything to say about that?

[jasonT1981]

iIts fucking frustring to deal with the same bullshit in EVERY GAME. It's not fun having someone who KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT THE SITE, start claiming people's reactions are indicative OF ANYTHING. especially after they've jumpe don a bullshit wagon without adding any reasoning. just RESTATING what has already be said. despite the fact what has already been said was clearly BULLSHIT.


you are noob scum

even if I die first, I will be vindicated when you are revealed.

I am sorry, all i said was your reactions where interesting.... The way you are getting on since my vote has made me really wonder about you here. Please stop the name callinfg and swearing. you say about things not making games fun for you, well simply put the swearing and insults when under pressure make for not a fun game for others also.

You say about its the same every game? well maybe you simply cant stand the pressure if this is how you react everytime?

Please stop making it personal and swearing, namecalling etc, it makes for not a very fun game.

[jasonT1981]

I quoted my reasons for voting... surely then that is then a case? no matter if you agree with it or not?

Any reasons for voting is a case? No?

[jasonT1981]

but i'm halfway to a lynch for IGNORING OTHER PEOPLE RANDOM VOTES BEFORE MAKING MY OWN RANDOM VOTE.

No, there was actually some discussion going in the game was there not? you seem to be saying there was NOTHING to go on (actually you did ).. when there was actually some discussion going that can be useful

[jasonT1981]

No, read what I said is my case It seemed to me you wanted to keep things in RVS and say there was nothing to go on... I said NOTHING about you ignoring random votes I said you didnt want to seem to acknowledge any game happenings so far

It seemed (to me) that you didnt want to further discussion, or acknowlegdge anything else in the game. that is my take on things at least. Read into it as you wish.

[jasonT1981]

NOTHING WORTH MY TIME.

Wring... ANYTHING said in mafia is worth your time, it is the essance of making a case and catching scum... So even the RVS is worth while taking note of actions as it can be a discussion starter.

At least in my view. the RVS can be important.

[jasonT1981]

meant to say wrong... oops

[jasonT1981]

are you sure of that? make a case against me then please instead of just saying I am scum!

[jasonT1981]

me being 3rd vote and having nothing really else to say other than puting things in my own words? thats your case?

OK then.

thats hardly a big case is it.

[jasonT1981]

certainly bigger than "you ignored the random votes before you". you made a nub scum move of jumping on a weak case to move forward a wagon.

you had nothing ot add to the reasoning, you simply restated what CDB said. everything you did is indicative of scum.

What is the everything else then?

[jasonT1981]

but what else? everything else? please show us and use it as a case instead of just saying 'everything else'

[jasonT1981]

sorry everything... please show me fully what is so scummy about everything I have done?

[jasonT1981]

Juls, I had already said I was just putting what others had already said in my own words. I never once made out thaty they where 'fresh' or 'new'

[jasonT1981]

Oh I use the alot when making a point... sorry old habbit.

[jasonT1981]

Locke - I quite often say I am comfortable putting my vote on someone, just how I play really. Justy like my use of the in posts.

[jasonT1981]

well yea... things can change in a mafia game ' right now' it is where i wanted my vote.. anyones opinion can be easily changed in the future though can it not? its not like your vote is going to stay on one person if you see someone more scummy is it?

[jasonT1981]

Im sorry, but my vote is still on who it was put on... I will admit, if someone was acting scummier i would move my vote.

As I said, yes I tried to put what others said in my own words as a way of catching up with the game as I had been away for a bit.

And whats wrong with moving my vote if I see something scummier?

[jasonT1981]

.

why did no one quick lynch jason? =P

this here alarms me really to be honest... why has no one quick lynched me?

[jasonT1981]

So with that vote I am at -2 all because I reitterated what others had said when catching up with the game?

[jasonT1981]

Unwarranted bandwagon powers... ACTIVATE!

Form of... VP Baltar and CDB!

Wait, your calling people on Bandwagons when....

Jason is definitely setting in my crosshairs...

Unvote, Vote: Jason

you jumped on mine, putting me at L-2 without any actual reasoning from you???

[jasonT1981]

And in your unbearable back and forth with Zoneace, I got frustrated townie vibes from him, while I got the "calm and collected scum" vibe from you.

Or maybe I just was not going to give into swearing and bullying and retort in such a manner that Zoneace was throwing at me? and was able to compose myself in a dignified manner without resorting to a pissy fit at not getting my way?

[jasonT1981]

As for the WTF... he asked why no one had quick hammered me. Off course that is going to pick up some interest from me is it not? joke or not.

[jasonT1981]

So, if he's very good with it, meaning he's done well with it before, that'd make me assume... Mafia Goon. >_>

I think that is quite a misrep to be honest.. I believe when he says he is 'good' with his vote he is saying he is happy with his vote on you.

kinda like saying.. you want to go out? no, I'm 'good'....

only in this case it is... you happy with your vote?....... yea, I'm 'good.'

If that makes sense. Its near 5am here, im off to bed

[jasonT1981]

Locke, Zoneace has not really posted anything since his blowup, but recently Reckoner has been quite scummy, he has jumped on my wagon without giving any reasoning

Jason is definitely setting in my crosshairs...

Unvote, Vote: Jason

then completly called out people for jumping on his which I think is a tad hypocritical considering it was his VERY next post.

Unwarranted bandwagon powers... ACTIVATE!

Form of... VP Baltar and CDB!

he then suspects me and says he gets scum vibes from me because I did not respond in a vile manner to Zoneace...I was too calm and collected so I am giving scum vibes... as I already said, excuse me for NOT giving in and start swearing, bitching and bullying back and Zoneace like a child not getting his way.

I have learnt the best thing to do in Mafia is to stay calm regardless of allignment. I do not think being calm under pressure is a scumtell to be honest.

And in your unbearable back and forth with Zoneace, I got frustrated townie vibes from him, while I got the "calm and collected scum" vibe from you.

as well as asking WTF when I questioned CDB about his quick lynch comment. He then goes on to blatently misrep CDB over his 'good' statement

So, if he's very good with it, meaning he's done well with it before, that'd make me assume... Mafia Goon. >_>

only to be called on it, and shown what it means so he justifies it by saying thats why he put a >_> after it...

Oh. I took it to mean he's skilled with the particular role. I didn't really buy into it anyway, hence the ">_>" afterward.

and also admits he didnt buy into it hence the >_>

well if you didnt buy into it, why bring it up in the first place, considering YOU where the one who submitted it... so your esentailly submitting evidence you dont even buy into yourself?

all this one page 7 alone.....wow

unvote
vote: Reckoner

[jasonT1981]

Did you think Reckoner was scummier than Zoneace as soon as he jumped on your wagon? I'm assuming he only crossed the line into scummier than Zoneace when I asked you what you thought, as that's when you moved your vote.

Yes, Zoneaces responses to me where that out of emotion if that is what you are talking about, where as Reckoner jumped on the wagon without even giving any thoughts of his own... infact he didnt give any thoughts for his vote on me really apart from I was picking up on his scumdar.

It was not until i evaluated all his posts from page 7 in my big post on him that I realized just how scummy he was and that is why my vote has been placed on him.

And to be honest, despite what i said when putting my vote on Zoneace earlier Reckoner has come across as 10x scummier to me than what i thought of Zoneace. Page 7 alone blew my mind

[jasonT1981]

So, I'm scum for... voting jason, despite posting a case when asked to, and misreading a quote by Baltar?

Yeah. Wagon reeks of scum. Time to sniff him out. Oh, wait, hello Jason. Already found him.

Hmmm funny, I put a case as to why you where scum i thought. not just due to your vote and misread. there are other things

And can you be 100% certain I am scum?

[jasonT1981]

Jason:
Why does Reckoner (or anyone) need to be “100% certain” you’re mafia?

Well, if you are putting a vote on someone without being sure in your mind they are mafia... its a bit weird is it not? The fact he is declairing he has found the scum....

Yeah. Wagon reeks of scum. Time to sniff him out. Oh, wait, hello Jason. Already found him.

the fact he can say that he has already found scum... I would like to know how he is 100% sure I am scum... it is a pretty big statement to declare you have found scum.. It is almost like he knows 100% in that statement, that is why I asked can you be 100% certain as he declares I am scum

And I still would like answers to these:

why did no one quick lynch jason? =P

this here alarms me really to be honest... why has no one quick lynched me?

CB was trying to make a joke, but mixed up Jason/Jacob.
What’s your excuse for asking this?

Joke or not, I was concerned he was asking why there had been a quick lynch... sure he got mixed up, but when I saw Why has no one quick lynched Jason yet.... surely my mind is gonna start asking what?

Locke, Zoneace has not really posted anything since his blowup, but recently Reckoner has been quite scummy, he has jumped on my wagon without giving any reasoning.

By this, do you mean that Zoneace is not suspicious?

Well i made a case on him earlier in the game, so at the time I was suspicious of him... so much infact earlier I had my vote on him did I not? Though his blow up did confuse me, I can understand how it can be seen as a frustrated townie as oppossed to scummy.

It seems I am being brought under scruitiny for unvoting Zoneace and voting reckoner, I have already made a case, and explained my reasons for my reckoner vote ( see Page 8 post 176)

Still trying to catch up on a few things since having computer problems, going to watch the Man Utd vs Chelsea game so will be back later

[jasonT1981]

unvote
vote: Reckoner

While I feel that Reckoner may be deserving of a vote, you jumping on the second largest wagon when I already have scum vibes from you does not sit well with me.

Considering I built my case on him in 176(not saying it was entirely my case as others had also suspected him (the post you are partially quoted) and gave my thoughts its hardly like it was just a hop onto the wagon without any reasoning... I gave reasons in a detailed post by post of Reckoner recent postings and my thoughts on them that lead to the vote... you only quoted my vote there, you did not quote anything else I had said on the matter.

BUT

You admit he is deserving of the vote... yet then question me for voting? if he was not deserving of the vote by all means you have every right to question me about 'hopping on the wagon' but when you say it is deserving, makes me wonder why you would then question someone voting him... if it really is as you say 'deserving'

[jasonT1981]

If you made your case on him in post 176 as you say, why didn't you vote him then?

umm I did vote him in post 176 actually

unvote
vote: Reckoner

[jasonT1981]

Juls, am in the middle of a re-read so will get back to you in a bit

[jasonT1981]

Finally caught up... Am responding to each post as I read them so If it seems I am mirroring anyones thoughts sorry, these are mine at the time of reading them

I'm still dubious about Jason moving his vote only after I prompted him but Reckoner is not doing himself any favours. 183 seems implausible to me; surely he would have read back and looked at what was said when people jumped on him for the role post? Not only that, but if he didn't really buy into it, why is he trying to excuse himself now? There's not much to say about 189, it's another worthless post.

Unvote; Vote: Reckoner

While I can understand your concerns about me here, I will admit I only picked up on Reckoner fully when you asked me what I thought, I went back over his posts and relized how scummy he actually was. His jump on my bandwagon did already have my attention... but what I posted really made me think... wow scummy.

every vote is on the current bandwagon (only when it is hot) spouting out what other's have said. every vote leaves himself open to jump back to the previous has needed. His net gets wider and wider....

I think this is the scum....trying to jump on the wagons in the middle to avoid notice.

unvote, vote locke

This is a very interesting point about Locke

They are all scummy, for reasons I quite clearly explained. I indicated my doubts about Reckoner even when I put my vote on Jason. It's not as though I suddenly just changed my mind and went for him to get on the wagon. Reckoner's last post made it sound as though he's not even taking things seriously; I think it warranted extra pressure.

Seems quite opertunistic really to me.

Speculating over whether I'd take less blame or avoid notice for getting on bandwagons after they've started is pretty pointless. Zoneace, Jason and Reckoner have all done things I considered scummy, so I voted for them. I even continued to push Jason about his vote on Zoneace after others had stopped because I still don't like the tentative way he voted for him and I didn't want Jason to fade into the background because Reckoner was acting so scummy.

I already gave my reasons for my vote on Zoneace... why continue to push when it was made clear?

How did I know there was going to be a Reckoner wagon? That was before he put his vote on Jason and got called out on it; the Reckoner wagon didn't even exist.

I think it was probably sensible for Zoneace to step away from the game for a bit, although having read some meta it seems that his response to the votes was fairly typical of him anyway. I think it's a little convenient that he disappeared just as more votes started to get put on Jason and attention shifted away from him. It makes him a little more scummy in my eyes. I'd like to see some examples of what he thinks is Reckoner trying to appear town instead of just being town.

Indeed, how did you know? But yes, it was sensible for ZA to step away I believe, we all have blow ups from time to time and it would have made matters worse if he did not take time to calm down.

I don't think it is convient he disappeared though.. he needed to cool down, would you rather he continued to post in the mood he was in (No offence ZA)

Votecount 4, Page 9

xRECKONERx - 4 - ChannelDelibird, VP Baltar, Jason,

Locke Lamora

Jason - 3 - Juls, Jebus, xReckonerx
LockeLamora - 2 - Drench, curiouskarmadog
Jebus - 1 - canadianbovine


Not Voting:
Emptyger, ZONEACE

I do not know why, I am getting the feeling of bussing his partner... at this point I am thinking a Locke/Reckoner scum partnership.

I think it was probably sensible for Zoneace to step away from the game for a bit, although having read some meta it seems that his response to the votes was fairly typical of him anyway. I think it's a little convenient that he disappeared just as more votes started to get put on Jason and attention shifted away from him. It makes him a little more scummy in my eyes.

So wait, It's sensible but scummy? So, I did what was best for the town, but clearly that makes me scum????

Could you TRY A LITTLE HARD TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS?! Why don't you just set it up so that you look good no matter which way you vote EVERYONE, set up a little thing like you just set up with me, so that no matter what happens, you don't look bad.

I agree, it cant be both scummy, yet sensible.. it is one or the other and I think this is a feebale attempt to start shifting attention

So, I'm scum for... voting jason, despite posting a case when asked to, and misreading a quote by Baltar?

Yeah. Wagon reeks of scum. Time to sniff him out. Oh, wait, hello Jason. Already found him.

Already responded to this I believe, but anyway... you didnt present a case, you hoped on the wagon then when pressured gave regurgated reasoning for it.

So. That's me at L-2, for anyone not keeping track. Can we find a better wagon please?

I'll be back from V/LA tomorrow and be able to give this game more attention.

Really, this makes it sound like we are still in the RVS wagons, the wagon is on you because of scummy behaviour and as I see it right now... is 5 votes on a scummy person.. and not jjust a wagon. but actual reasoning for votes.

You admit he is deserving of the vote... yet then question me for voting? if he was not deserving of the vote by all means you have every right to question me about 'hopping on the wagon' but when you say it is deserving, makes me wonder why you would then question someone voting him... if it really is as you say 'deserving'

Just because he is deserving of a vote doesn't mean that you aren't being opportunistic in jumping on the wagon. What do you think of other people? Most wagons are "deserving" on some level. What I have a problem with is that you are 5th on the wagon. If you made your case on him in post 176 as you say, why didn't you vote him then?

If I had just voted I could see it as opertunistic yes, but I did give reasons in post 176 i believe after being asked my opinion on Reckoner. I did vote him..i think I pointed this out to you before.

I'm sorry,my mistake. In my most recent post I had confused your vote and ZoneAce's recent vote as you can see by my "5th on the wagon" comment. My only valid point then from my post 221 is the first few sentences "Just because he is deserving of a vote doesn't mean that you aren't being opportunistic in jumping on the wagon. What do you think of other people? Most wagons are "deserving" on some level. " I would still like your answer to that. (Note to self, don't post before drinking caffeinated beverage)

Its ok, we all make mistakes but right now I am thinking about Locke also being possible scum. Zoneace despite his blowup is probably a fustrated town member annoyed at the wagon. It makes no sense for scum to blow up like that for 3 votes.

Jason:
Then how certain are you about Reckoner?

fairly confident we will get scum based on his behaviour.

Really? I’ve been seeing Jason trying to blend in and avoid his own lynch, but I don’t really see him trying to hunt. Where are you seeing that type of behavior?

I've made several attempts. my post on Zoneace and Reckoner are evidenence of this I believe.

I'm good with my vote. It'd be nice to have an actual case against which I can defend myself instead of just "Reckoner's play is scummy" followed by votes.

there always was an 'actual' case you just ignored it.

I described my thoughts on LL at the bottom of the last page.

(despite giving my reasons a few posts later)

I like how you think this isn't significant.

just how he thought there was no significant case on him either in my last quoted post.

As I said before, I questioned Reckoner a long time before I put my vote on him about his strange defence of Zoneace. What exactly about my Reckoner vote made you think I was bussing? What were your specific reasons for voting Reckoner?

I really have got a strong sense of bussing myself actually when it came to you LL.

Drench is requesting replacement

Suckage.

What is the scum motivation for trying to move the game forward out of the RVS? How exactly is this jumping the gun? What should jason have waited for to make his vote on zone appropriate in your eyes?

The reasoning wasn't solid, I'm saying. Scum motivation for trying to move the game out of RVS isn't there, but neither is any solid reasoning.

but it was making solid discussion no?

Right, in conclusion

I would like to see more from ZoneAce
Recknoer is my number one suspect for scum hence my vote.
Locke is my no2 suspect and I heavily believe him to be bussing at this point.

[jasonT1981]

"So?"

So, my post wasn't just trying to appear town. If he had actually said "I'm very good with my role" like I thought he said, then my method of investigating would have been perfectly applicable.

It really makes no sense to say you're voting me primarily because of that slip up.

Who are you talking to?

[jasonT1981]

When I said about suspecting him off bussing... it is because I suspect Both Locke and Reckoner to be the scum team... therefor I get the feeling LL is bussing his partner.

[jasonT1981]

So you think I'm bussing because you think I'm scum and you think Reckoner's scum, not because you've seen evidence of bussing like that in CDB's argument?

Well if I think you both are scum.. have given evidence to suggest why i think you both are... then it stands to reason I think you are bussing if I see your vote on the other person I suspect of being scum no?

[jasonT1981]

My case for bussing is that I presented evidence as to why I feel you are both scum... the fact that one I suspect of being scum is voting the other i suspect.... is that not simple to understand as to how I feel it is bussing?

[jasonT1981]

cant keep my vote on with the claim out there now

unvote

[jasonT1981]

Can't? Why? because it looks bad to vote for a claimed cop?

well that, and since its uncountered, it would be hard to support the lynch now

[jasonT1981]

Simulpost: Are you scum jason?

No, but I have shaped the lives of others for many years and keep calm under pressure... even when guns are pointed at me accusingly like they have been in this game

[jasonT1981]

I would say my flavor/character match well enough. It is not a stark contrast like what Reck is claiming. Kate is the antithesis of a cop.

I would have thought Sayid would be the cop to be honest but looking at my role. Kate as cop is kinda a what? as looking at my role, it is similar to the shows character characteristics

[jasonT1981]

Regarding the flavour claim: I can actually buy Kate as a cop. She doesn't let things go (and I don't really see a more obvious candidate for the role in the cast anyway).

I can think of one person that would make more sense. Sawyer. In Season 5, Sawyer is head of security for the Dharma initiative. Cop is very close to security.

Actually good point I never thought of it like that... I forgot this was season 5.. when I mentioned Sayid I was going by earlier seasons

[jasonT1981]

So uvoting a claimed cop is suspicious? how?????

Not keeping your vote on a claimed cop who is uncountered is the right thing to do I would think... not scummy or suspicious.

[jasonT1981]

I don't think saying 'I'm the cop' in a 12-player mini is likely to be a slip and I don't see why Reckoner would bother telling us that it says 'a cop' in his PM if he was lying (WIFOM, I know). I think it's probably the phrasing that I would use in a game of this size too, regardless of alignment.

I'd like to point out that Jason has not responded to my vote or commented on the Reckoner claim. Funny how as soon as the guy he was pushing to lynch claims he completely ceases all active contribution to the game.

Sorry, I am here and will comment in a bit, I am just out of hospital today

[jasonT1981]

@ VPB:

I never stopped wanting Jason lynched, I just wanted EmpTyger lynched more. I said I'm still

partial

to a Jason lynch, meaning I'd happily lynch either of them.

Sounds more wishy washy to me...

'I don't care who we lynch as long as we lynch someone im happy with it'

Well thats how I am seeing this anyway.

I want to apologize for not being about as much lately, I started rehab in hospital recently and am doped up on what is effectively morphine!

I'm a cop, straight up, and I can investigate people every night and get a guilty result.

not too sure on this one... how would he know he is paranoid? I have never come across a cop who knows he is paranoid/insane. unless it is a deathly game going into day 3/4 and there is alot of information.

It makes no sense for the mod to tell him he will get a guilty every night in his PM I dont think.

No, but I have shaped the lives of others for many years and keep calm under pressure... even when guns are pointed at me accusingly like they have been in this game

Nice softclaim here. This one can go either way, and im not fully done with season 5 [im on about episode 6] so im unsure of what side you'd be on.

Keep watching But my eyes have been on some people for many years. You never know where you will find me... Portland, Miami or maybe even Tustin, California

[jasonT1981]

I didn't mean I'd get a "guilty" result, I mean I'd receive the result of whether or not they were guilty.

Fair enough, but looking at what you said you can see why we thought what we did right?

[jasonT1981]

Looking back, something bothers me.

So uvoting a claimed cop is suspicious? how?????

Not keeping your vote on a claimed cop who is uncountered is the right thing to do I would think

... not scummy or suspicious.

Why do you care what is the "right thing to do" to no be scummy or suspicious.

You should be more concerned with doing what is right for the town

instead of what is right to make you look good.

re: Bolded...I thought that was implied in what I said

[jasonT1981]

I thought I was doing the right thing for the town by unvoting a claimed and uncountered cop yes... what part of that was not clear?

[jasonT1981]

If you don't think I have been doing enuf I am sorry, but as I have already told you I have started rehab and have been dosed up on painkillers pretty badly for the past few days.

I will not be seeking replacement however as I come off my meds tomorrow and will be able to once again play fully

[jasonT1981]

The silence in this game disturbs me. It seems you're Mr. Popular, Jason. I suggest claiming asap.

As it seems I am not near lynch yet according to what is the current vote count (by my count)


Jason - 4 - Juls, xReckonerx, ChannelDelibird,canadianbovine
xRECKONERx - 1 - , ZONEACE
Jebus - - , Emptyger
LockeLamora - 1 - curiouskarmadog
Tyger - 2 Locke Lamora,VP Baltar

I am at -3... so no, no claim.

[jasonT1981]

no... you want my role, you lynch me.

[jasonT1981]

there is a reason I do not wish to claim.

[jasonT1981]

Just realized,

unvote

You are after me for my unvote... I was heavily brought under pressure for unvoting a claimed cop..

Why was this not picked up on or questioned as scummy? I gave a reason at least as to not wanting to keep a vote....

Also Santos unvote? what about it?

Unvote

FoS: Locke Lamora

, because the evidence against you and your arguments refuting the accusations still make me think you've just been following along in this thread as pointed out by curiouskarmadog. However, as that is most of what is suspicious about you, I would rather keep my eye on you and what you do in the future as opposed to lynching you.

Also, its 7 votes to lynch right, with 12 being alive...6 votes +1 required for majority, etc.

Vote: RECKONER

for his initial reason to move a vote on Jason. Its too opportunistic.

Furthermore, ZONEACE, *facepalm* but I'm glad to see you're more cool headed.

Vp Baltar, hey hey, good to see you

Everyone else and the questions posed to Drench, if you want them answered then please oblige me with presenting the cases again and I will do my best to answer for my predecessor's play, votes, etc.

*after hitting the preview button*

Unvote

I need a vote count and a confirmation of what L-??? we're at so far on RECKONER, please.

FoS: RECKONER

for the same reasons. Right now I'm not comfortable placing a vote in my first post of the game without a more recent vote count on my behalf, if you please

Cheers, I await questions, responses.

He voted... but then unvoted in the same post claiming preview?

why bother then keeping the vote in place and why not just delete the vote if only in preview? wanting to make it look pro-town maybe?

[jasonT1981]

unvote, vote: Jason

What about this unvote and change of vote here right after the cop claim? absolutely nothing to go on? no reasoning what so ever?

you want to hound me for that.. there is alot scummier unvotes than my one

[jasonT1981]

I must also point out how opportunistic this unvote and vote on me is as I had not yet unvoted (309) or been called on my unvote (310 - onwards)

very opportunistic I feel. no reasoning what so ever.

[jasonT1981]

it would also severely hurt the town

[jasonT1981]

it would also severely hurt the town

why don't you stop pussy footing and frigging claim. Ok, you're getting on my last damn nerve with this bull. CLAIM or self hammer. make a ******* choice.

very anxious for it aint you? I have made a choice... a choice to not claim..

I'm not pussy footing, there is a reason I will not claim. I have bread crumbed, i have told you a claim will hurt the town more than it will help.

[jasonT1981]

I am Richard Applet the Doctor

. that is why I

DID NOT

want to claim... I did not want to have the doc and cop outed on day 1... Also it now gives the scum a great advantage.

I bread crumbed being Richard earlier in the game twice.

Simulpost: Are you scum jason?

No, but I have shaped the lives of others for many years and keep calm under pressure... even when guns are pointed at me accusingly like they have been in this game

This above is a reference to off course a season 5 episode 14 called the The Variable when Richard remained calm when Faraday had a gun pointed to him as well as hinting about being around for many years shaping the lives of 'others' as Richard did... and this below

Keep watching But my eyes have been on some people for many years. You never know where you will find me... Portland, Miami or maybe even Tustin, California

this is reference to Richard watching Locke for many years and being at his birth in Tustin, it is also a reference to season 3 episode 7 called not in Portland when Richard recruited Julliet at an interview in Miami to bring her to their Portland offices.


I really did not want to claim, however I now await cries of 'why did you claim'

[jasonT1981]

Well, everyone pretty much knew you were Richard Alpert. It's not like your breadcrumbs had any subtlty to them.

Does your PM say anything about you not being able to protect the cop?

Why would you be interested in knowing that? do you not think that sort of Info would be gold to scum?

[jasonT1981]

No, I truely believe answering it would have an adverse affect on the town and would only benefit scum by knowing if a doc can protect a cop.

I believe you could be fishing here....

Say I say no, I can not protect... the scum take cop out
I say yes I can protect, they take me out so as to get a clear shot at Cop next night.

Answering this would only give an advantage to scum... and only scum would be interested in knowing what I can do in this situation.

unvote
vote VP Balter

[jasonT1981]

If you don't want to answer that question specifically, let me rephrase so you can actually be useful here, does your PM mention cop protection (it doesn't matter for or against)?

If I say no to that question... then scum knows I have no restrictions.

If I say yes... it could give a hint to if I can or can not protect him.

I refuse to answer anything about protection on the cop as it will give scum an advantage, quite frankly im wondering why you are pushing something that will give them such an advantage in the night by knowing what I hypo can or cant do with my role..

It only benifits scum to answer this.

[jasonT1981]

I am beginning to think this is fishing for info as scum might not have a role blocker, and that is why VP is asking so he knows what he can or cant do in night.

[jasonT1981]

can anyone explain to me why richard would be a doctor?

im not totally caught up. His breadcrumbing was not subtle, however, because im not done with season 5, i thought it was Ben.

Season 5 Richard was responsible for healing Ben Linus as a child, he took Ben to the others to heal him after he was shot by Sayid who was attempting to alter the future and stop Ben from basically giving them hell in the earlier seasons...

If I say yes... it could give a hint to if I can or can not protect him.

How does you answer that question give them a hint either way? It's the same WIFOM as if you didn't answer it.

quite frankly im wondering why you are pushing something that will give them such an advantage in the night by knowing what I hypo can or cant do with my role

Perhaps you don't understand the bigger picture very well. And again, it is no advantage to the scum.

I refer you to this.....

Say I say no, I can not protect... the scum take cop out
I say yes I can protect, they take me out so as to get a clear shot at Cop next night.

Answering this would only give an advantage to scum... and only scum would be interested in knowing what I can do in this situation.

A town player has NO reason to ask that question, A question that could give scum a stratigic advantage in the night... Scum has every reason to ask though especially if they have no Roleblocker... even answering if my PM includes mention of the doc would give scum an idea if I have restrictions or not.

Hence why my vote is on you. If you are town, you do not need to know If a doc can protect a cop or not.

[jasonT1981]

@Reckoner

1) Sorry, Yes... I did mis-spell my characters name

I am a lost fan, a very big lost fan... and to use a mis-spell of the characters name is just grasping at straws now.

2) I used red to highlight the role, nothing really important

3) considering you are claimed cop as Kate... you really have no case to say Richard as Doc does not fight.

4) I am not going to try and out guess the mod

I'm wary of the timing of the first breadcrumb; it comes not long after Reckoner claims and you switched your vote to Jason, I called Jason scummy for his unvote, as well as being in direct response to VP asking Jason if he was scum. Given that Jason was actually the vote leader at this point, I find the decision to start breadcrumbing there suspect - the motivation must have been self-preservation, yet he was incredibly unwilling to reveal his actual role despite his incredibly obvious breadcrumbs. I don't see why he would breadcrumb that clearly at a point when he was the vote leader and then react so aggressively to being asked to claim. What's the point of breadcrumbs if not to verify your claim when you make it?

Well, my breadcrumbing was as you mentioned because I was asked outright if I was scum.

Simulpost: Are you scum jason?

No, but I have shaped the lives of others for many years and keep calm under pressure... even when guns are pointed at me accusingly like they have been in this game

As for not wanting to claim, you can see the disadvantage of having both a cop and doc claim outed on day one right?

[jasonT1981]

Actually, she spends no time in trouble with the law in S5. She does, however, spend her time investigating who it is that is trying to take Aaron from her.

And Richard takes Ben from Kate/Sawyer to heal him.....

Also, I see after making my last post LL points out about Reckoner being over me for Richard being Doc when he is claiming cop with Kate. I was typing my reply about this as he posted.

[jasonT1981]

We can sit and argue that person X does not fit role Y... but at the end of the day it is Mods discretion as to which character gets what role I guess.

I have played games in my efed where Ben Linus was the town aligned cop. (write up scene)

http://www.mwa-online.net/forums/viewto ... &start=540

[jasonT1981]

Jason: So you breadcrumbed Alpert to try and reduce VP's suspicion of you?
.

To be honest, it was a sort of reply without properly replying with a yes or no as to if I am scum. But in a way, yes I had hoped it would ease his suspicions.

[jasonT1981]

Jason, would you give me a yes or no answer to my question, please.

Again, I am not answering.. I have pointed out why it is an advantage for scum to know, or for me to even hint at if I can protect the cop or not or even if my PM includes mentioning the cop....

Only scum would benefit from knowing this, Town has no real reason to ask this.

[jasonT1981]

can you give me reasons please as to why it is more beneficial for town to know this and how you feel it does not give scum an advantage

[jasonT1981]

I see it like this

If I say I can protect the cop... the scum know not to target him and can almost guarantee a night kill elsewhere..

If I say I can not protect the cop then they know they are free to go at him, and the guilty result the cop could hypothetically get in the night on someone (assumning he investigates correctly) will have gone to waste and we will never know.

If I don't say anything about and give no hints...there is a hypothetical chance that a scum hit in the night could fail... but they won't know if I can protect the cop or not or if my PM says anything about the cop.

knowing does give the scum the advantage, I do not want to help guide their night action plans and basically do their work for them in letting them know who I can and cant protect.

Does that make sense?

[jasonT1981]

I understand your thought process perfectly fine. I'm telling you, however, that the information is crucial in assessing both of your claims and you hiding it is hurting the town more than it is benefiting.

I asked you to explain how it benefits the town once before ... I am asking you once again to explain as all you have said it is crucial in accessing our claims.

If I can protect the cop or not has nothing to do with accessing our claims. That is a totally separate issue I believe.

now one more time...

how does it benefit the town to basically tell scum who they can or can not try to night kill. And how can it help assess our claims

I am not going to give up vital information for scum to use just because you say it is beneficial without any real reasoning.

[jasonT1981]

I understand your thought process perfectly fine. I'm telling you, however, that the information is crucial in assessing both of your claims and you hiding it is hurting the town more than it is benefiting.

I asked you to explain how it benefits the town once before ... I am asking you once again to explain as all you have said it is crucial in accessing our claims.

If I can protect the cop or not has nothing to do with accessing our claims. That is a totally separate issue I believe.

now one more time...

how does it benefit the town to basically tell scum who they can or can not try to night kill. And how can it help assess our claims

I am not going to give up vital information for scum to use just because you say it is beneficial without any real reasoning.

[jasonT1981]

Given current site meta, I think it would be very highly unlikely that a mod would create a game with a cop and a doc where the doc can protect the cop. It is a very big no-no in a mini because the cop would only have to claim and could be protected throughout the game by the hidden doc. I

t basically makes it impossible for the scum to win because by the time they find and kill the doc, the cop would have likely either found them or cleared enough innocents that it would be very difficult for the scum to hide.

Unless your PM says something specific about not being able to protect cops or not being able to protect the same person on consecutive nights, I think it is highly likely that Reckoner is lying and I would like to lynch him today. Obviously I didn't want to divulge my thoughts immediately because, if you are scum, it gives you an easy opportunity to alter your response to my question accordingly.

so your concerned about scum not being able to win?

Brilliant!!!

Your scenario is basically about a hidden doctor... I am not hidden any more.

[jasonT1981]

I will be answering NO more questions about what I an or can not do, and who I can or cant protect.

If you are still unhappy and think I am scummy... then hammer me

[jasonT1981]

I am checking out for the evening....

Locke and VP are seemingly very anxious to know as to what I can or cant do and who I cant or can protect...

any reason why they would be if they where town?

[jasonT1981]

Before I go... Lynching Reckoner (claimed and uncountered cop) who hypo flips cop leaves it open for scum to NK me (claimed and uncountered doc) and town loses both Cop and Doc before day 2.

This is why we can not lynch Reckoner.

A Reckoner Lynch right now really benefits scum. It gives the scum a clear path to win providing he is telling the truth about his claim... and uncountered we have no reason not to believe it. or take it at face value,

OK Now I am out

[jasonT1981]

Im back... So if Reckoner flips town cop... does that mean I am lying in my town doctor claim? Based on your theory we cant have a cop/doc together

[jasonT1981]

Sure, if you answer my question about if he flips town cop, where does that leaves my claim? does that mean I am scum as the game would be unbalanced as you say.

the cop/doc role I think works in a mini game if the scum has a role blocker and hit-man combo.

And yes I speculated earlier though about scum not having a RB and this is why they need to know what I can and cant do.

I can't support a Reckoner lynch today, sorry I don't think it is Pro-town to lynch a uncountered claimed cop, this is the very same reason I unvoted when he claimed.... in fact it would be very opportunistic for scum to push for this I feel.

[jasonT1981]

Again... answer my question please,

Any reason why you keep avoiding it after hounding me to answer yours?

IF Reckoner flips cop, does that make me lying as claimed Doc?

[jasonT1981]

So tell us, Jason, what do you think we should do? We're less than 24 hours from the deadline, we shouldn't lynch you because you've claimed doctor, and we shouldn't lynch Reckoner because he's claimed cop. Any bright ideas?

How about lynching those who want to lynch an uncountered power role?

or

Lynching those who want to know information that could affect the scums NK actions and harm the town?

[jasonT1981]

It is highly likely that you would be a liar in that situation, yes. Glad you see how annoying it is when people don't answer your questions though.

God you really are feeding the scum aint you?

If he flips cop.. it is highly likely I am lying, scum then keeps me alive and I am lynched tomorrow as you feel I am lying because Reckoner telling truth

God could you please stop handing scum this game! unless of course this is what you want

[jasonT1981]

Ya know, I am willing to bet that scum is sitting back laughing and loving this right now.

[jasonT1981]

OK right now I am going to give my opinion on who I think should be lynched

I have already made mention of what I feel

So tell us, Jason, what do you think we should do? We're less than 24 hours from the deadline, we shouldn't lynch you because you've claimed doctor, and we shouldn't lynch Reckoner because he's claimed cop. Any bright ideas?

How about lynching those who want to lynch an uncountered power role?

or

Lynching those who want to know information that could affect the scums NK actions and harm the town?

which would be Locke or VP but looking on down at someone else so I am not just attacking my attackers so to speaK

Santos 12th Aug

confirmed

Please give me time to catch up.

Santos 13th ugust

Unvote

FoS: Locke Lamora

, because the evidence against you and your arguments refuting the accusations still make me think you've just been following along in this thread as pointed out by curiouskarmadog. However, as that is most of what is suspicious about you, I would rather keep my eye on you and what you do in the future as opposed to lynching you.

Also, its 7 votes to lynch right, with 12 being alive...6 votes +1 required for majority, etc.

Vote: RECKONER

for his initial reason to move a vote on Jason. Its too opportunistic.

Furthermore, ZONEACE, *facepalm* but I'm glad to see you're more cool headed.

Vp Baltar, hey hey, good to see you

Everyone else and the questions posed to Drench, if you want them answered then please oblige me with presenting the cases again and I will do my best to answer for my predecessor's play, votes, etc.

*after hitting the preview button*

Unvote

I need a vote count and a confirmation of what L-??? we're at so far on RECKONER, please.

FoS: RECKONER

for the same reasons. Right now I'm not comfortable placing a vote in my first post of the game without a more recent vote count on my behalf, if you please

Cheers, I await questions, responses.

Very weird vote and unvote... As I have already said, he could have just taken out his vote if he seen the claim in preview.. but is trying here to make it look like he is doing the right thing

we here nothing until

prod received. i don't have time to catch up at the moment; I will read the last few pages later.

that was monday (17th) where he says he is catching up....he is pressured to post and comes up with this yesterday (wednesday)

Well, you can replace me or let me catch up.

Or we could lynch you? your vote / unvote is very weird...

however I am still very very open to a VP lynch, or a LL lynch.

So on what grounds would you ever lynch somebody day 1? Any scum with half a brain is going to claim some sort of PR. So, do you think we should just go around outting everyone's role before the end of day 1 until we find an actual vanilla and then lynch that person "just in case"?

Even if there is a roleblocker, I don't know if I would consider that balanced (though it would be moreso). Have you looked at the types of roles in the mods other games? From looking at those, does he seem like the type of mod who would put a doc +cop combo in a closed mini?

I would actually like answers to these.[/quote][/quote]

I am not going to second guess the mod in how he sets the game up.


If I had claimed vanilla (which I was considering BTW) would I have been lynched?

[jasonT1981]

you know I did not want to claim doctor and was very hesitant to do so. I was considering claiming Vanilla so as to guarentee being able to protect someone in the night.

as I said, you want to lynch me... lynch me... as for my vote. Happy where it is thank you

Believe me or not if you wish. I don't care

[jasonT1981]

Jason, what do you think of Reckoner's push for a lynch on you after you claimed?

to be honest, I touched on this a bit.. I did feel it was very weird for him to call in to question the possibility of Richard being Doc and how it didn't fit considering he claimed cop as Kate who does not fit either.

The reason I am leaning towards believing his claim (besides being uncountered) is the fact that when I saw my own role and character I chuckled thinking Richard didn't really fit either in the Doc role aside from taking Ben to the temple in S5 to save his life.

[jasonT1981]

I'm pretty sure you would have been lynched if you'd claimed vanilla, and if by some miracle you hadn't, you'd have been lynched if you ever claimed doctor later on in the game (in a massclaim situation, for example). Lying about roles is not pro-town.

I was hesitant about claiming Doc because I did'nt want to have hypo) cop/doc outed on day 1.. I thought about this actually, and how it would affect the outcome in a LyoL situation and thought well if I am to claim I would be caught out and cost the town the game.

[jasonT1981]

Honestly LL yes, if he had not claimed I would have supported his lynch.. I had been making points for his lynch in the lead up to his claim.

As for wanting him lynched if my role matched the character more? i am not sure, I have played in games where someone claimed Ben Linus - Town cop and was actually telling the Truth. I guess it was at the mods discretion who he wanted to use at what or he randomly assigned the characters the roles through a role generator rather than go by the shows characters/ characters said roles....

I would have thought Jack as Doc and Sawyer as cop in this game... but alas no by the looks of it. So I am not going to start actively speculating on someone being scum or not based on the role compared to the show character.

[jasonT1981]

Yikes... came back to quite a bit, going into city shopping and will catch up when I get home... gotta get me, my Madden 2010

[jasonT1981]

Good game folks, I enjoyed playing with you all. Hope to play with ya all soon again. Well done to the winner