Mini 826 - Pokemon Mafia (Abandoned)

[Shotty to the Body]

Randomattack: FA for being scum in the last game I played with him.

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Magikarp, use Hyper Beam! Well what the fuck do you mean you don't have Hyper Beam? Just use Splash Attack!

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Tyranid squish squish FA. xD

Unattack: Target Self

Wheeeeeee.

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Damn Tyranids don't need morale checks... Freaking hive mind... Grumble grumble...

This is the only game I've seen where self-votes=/= scummy. Odd.

It's not really a self-vote per se in this game, just means someone has a self-affecting move they want to use. We don't even have votes really, just attacks.

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Just find a loop of the Pokemon theme song and listen to it for three hours. =P

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Why not? Everybody's doing it! That's probably why we're the only ones posting. =P

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It's 2AM and still page 1, if you would like to start serious discussion right now be my guest, but we haven't even seen everyone post yet.

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Sorry, bored watching anime lol, signing off till tomorrow.

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I think we should simply make it clear what our opinions are, attacking isn't necessarily the clearest sign of suspicion since some moves are self-targeting or effect the environment (such as raindance etc). I definitely think attacking is a vote for all intents and purposes, but they need to be properly explained if you do something that doesn't line up with your (perceived) position.

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It would be amusing if he was running two Delibirds, don't think that would be very strategic, but I would appreciate it.

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At the very least the accusation his font is some devious scum ploy is down right ridiculous, it's just something to get used to. I thought it was thin of ZEE to claim either myself or FA was scum because of an off-topic convo, but asking people to bring it back on topic isn't a scum-tell I don't think. =\ Everyone's available to interpret that however they want, it could be malicious or not, but it is minor IMHO.

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I feel like we had a good start pulling away, but I don't really see much to comment on in this conflict between Brandu and Delibird.

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Analysis: Brandi starts leaning toward ZEEnon as scum after FA, Tzeentch, and Socio say similar things than you attack her for thinking ZEEnon is scum for starting a get out of RVS bandwagon as you call it. I don't really see why you chose her over any of the other players attacking ZEEnon however, the comment in post 56 is really minor at best, and you're also preventing a get out of RVS bandwagon by stopping Brandi from attacking ZEEnon. There ya go, I tried. Your argument is pointless because it circles that if you stop her from attacking ZEEnon we don't get out of RVS but if we try to stop you from attacking her we are also preventing the same. That's why I said there was little to comment on.

[Shotty to the Body]

Analysis: Brandi starts leaning toward ZEEnon as scum after FA, Tzeentch, and Socio say similar things than you attack her for thinking ZEEnon is scum for starting a get out of RVS bandwagon as you call it.

My reasoning behind my attacking were completely different than any of the others that placed votes. Grouping me with them leads me to believe you neglected to even read what I wrote, which leads my beliefs to lean towards you being lazy scum.

Considering I specifically commented on the ridiculousness of your accusations that ZEEnon's font color was a scum-ploy I can't see how you can claim I didn't read it

[Shotty to the Body]

Shotty

:
Post 23
You state here that you wouldn’t mind that ZEEnon would start serious discussion. However, there’s also a ‘but’ included. Did you want to hear from everybody before starting real discussion or not? If yes, why? If not, why did you include the ‘but’?

I prefer to let one round of posts by everyone go down before I try to pull away from RVS, gives me a chance to see everyone's posting style, their random votes, and of course to make sure everyone that confirmed is actually playing (which they weren't since we have two replaces already. =\ )

[quote="ZazieR[CDB and Shotty:
Both of you responded after SP had explained his vote for the first time. But both of you responded to it in the second post of yours after this statement was made. Why? [/quote]
Firstly, I was laughing at a comment about the idea channel was using two delibirds and looking at the timestamp it was like 3am, I probably didn't care enough to answer then. Secondly, I try to let the accusee answer for themselves before I say anything and I sincerely doubt anyone is taking that post without a grain of salt to begin with.

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Damn formatting fail.

CDB and Shotty:
Both of you responded after SP had explained his vote for the first time. But both of you responded to it in the second post of yours after this statement was made. Why?

Firstly, I was laughing at a comment about the idea channel was using two delibirds and looking at the timestamp it was like 3am, I probably didn't care enough to answer then. Secondly, I try to let the accusee answer for themselves before I say anything and I sincerely doubt anyone is taking that post without a grain of salt to begin with.

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To a certain degree I have to agree that intentions are as important as results, if ZEE's intentions were to catch scum on page one and that happens to bring us out of RVS that doesn't mean his goal was to bring us out of RVS, it was a positive side effect. I don't think the case ZEE made was scummy, it was thin to be sure, but what isn't on the first or second page of the game? I think the wagon that followed onto ZEE has definite scum airs about it and some of the reasons for voting him were pretty ridiculous.

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Yes extension

I'll be posting tomorrow.

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ZEE I noticed you put RBT and SP in your scum category. If you think SP is scum are you disregarding his argument about RBT being scum and vice versa RBTs suspicions of SP? And if you disregard arguments of those you consider scummy why do you think they're scummy?

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As far as I can tell all the protect moves in Pokemon target self, not others. You couldn't really attack someone and then use a protective move on them. There would have to be a huge twist in the attack system to allow mafia to pull a bait and switch of that manner.

[Shotty to the Body]

I'm glad you agree.

High five, good buddy.

/Facepalm. Way over the top. >.> Don't forget Socio we can't really lynch per se, one round of attacks isn't going to knock someone out in all likeliness.

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That doesn't make sense for a number of reasons.

1. Killing someone's starting Pokemon isn't a lynch, they simply send out their next Pokemon.
2. We can't decide if an attack will put someone over the top of a KO so how weak is "low."
3. Scum have more to gain by lowering everyone else's HP since there are more of us and less of them.
4. We waste week after week of attack lowering each other's HP arbitrarily and not hunting scum.

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Even if you have nothing new to add you could tell us where you stand Fallen. Inhim's plan is very scummy to me, could you link me to the game you're referring to Brandi? I agree with SP that there's been a ton of buddying from him. Inhim and ZEE's team-up is pretty ridiculous so I doubt they're scum together considering they could talk all they wanted if they were. Delibird how did your re-read go by the way, haven't heard much from you. Rice what are your thoughts on Inhim's behavior and why is SP at the top of your scum list again? What OMGUS are you referring to ZEE?

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355 damage earthquake for f***'s sake.

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I agree SP, on the other hand if FA is town he needs to be kept alive imo, earthquake is one of the most powerful attacks in Pokemon and is simply devastating when employed properly as we saw last night.

I'd also like to hear people's thoughts on Inhim since he and ZEE have been buddying hardcore and at least three people thought ZEE was worth attacking. I thought that was far too obvious for a scum-team with daytalk. Tzee when you get interwebs could you explain why you attacked ZEE or was his posts on the first couple pages enough for you?

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Inhim are you still trying to declare someone 'confirmed town' at this point in the game?

ZEEnon's self-replace feels like hopeless town to me, but I still think it's lame to replace out.

Brandi I'd really like to hear something, how can you not have any differing opinions? Surely you have some comments on something.

FOS: Brandi

I agree with CDB here, if I think someone is scum I'm going to bitchslap them with the best move I have.

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I kinda disagree with that. There are no double votes in this game, and using a super effective attack because he thinks he has more power then the regular townies, that strikes me as opportunistic.

Considering you used a super-effective attack that annihilated ZEE's Pokemon I don't know how you can make that argument.

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I apologize for the lack of content, I can assure you my silence is only temporary. ^^;

I'll hold you to that, I'm watching the Kennedy funeral so I'll post a larger post later.

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You seriously didn't even check his Pokemon's types versus your attack? Sorry if I find that a little farfetched. Like I totally understand if you thought he was scummy and so you decided to wreck his shit, but claiming afterward it was an accident? Sounds like you're trying to distance yourself from that kill.

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Oh.

Attack: FA:

btw.

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I see what you're saying SP, I disagree with you however. Using super-effective attacks against someone that you think is scum makes perfect sense. Trying to claim you didn't know after the fact is scummy.

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Welcome Ray, STTB is fine. =P I could be convinced to vote for inhim, but I like my attack where it is right now. Inhim's obscene buddying with ZEE and FA raping his Pokemon make it more likely to me that ZEE was clean. He was attacked by 3 people and buddied by another, there's way too much there for scum not to be involved if he's town and Inhim buddying him if they have daytalk makes no sense.

Can we prod FA?

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Zazie just got back from a V/LA in another game I'm in from what I can tell, perhaps he will grace us with his presence.

[Shotty to the Body]

>.> I'm trying to start a conversation SOMEWHERE in this thread.

I don't really like the fact the main people that need to post are the ones lurking, which is halting any form of town conversation...

That's why I'm fine with my attack, if FA wants to lurk out the day then he sure as hell won't get away cleanly.

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We still have 10 hours, not sure what else to be said though, I'm fine with my attack as of now.

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Well I thought the day would end yesterday, but since it didn't can you explain your no action Tzee?

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He's in another game with me he hasn't posted since Friday when he said he'd be V/LA then and Saturday, not sure what his deal is now though.

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Remember we can post at night folks... Don't let our time go to waste when we only have a week's turnaround on attacks.

So Tzee you're saying you no actioned because you were afraid of town (dis)approval? That's like the definition of scummy. We have the whole resolution phase, even if you didn't have time to write up a big post you could've reread and tried to figure out who was scum and then post your reasons now. Why didn't you do that?

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My top 3 would be Tzee, and a close tie at this point between FA and Inhim. I'm going to drop FA until Malcolm gets rolling, he can't really explain FA's actions but IGMEOY. Sorry I missed the follow-ups on my point with Tzee, but his responses have cemented my view so far.

Attack Tzee

. Can you point me to a post about RBT or give me a recap Ray? I'm going to do a full reread now so I'm caught up when the replacements give us their views. Btw welcome guys, look forward to some more activity.

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The more we wait to be sure, the more chance it gives scum to wriggle out or fog the issue by doing things differently. Scum ARE attacking town players every single night (unless they're bussing) so waiting to be sure doesn't really help us, taking action does. Even the chance to knock out scum is worth taking because waiting will only make us weaker. Especially in this set-up, even if scum get it down to 2 on 2 the town still has a chance of winning so we shouldn't let ourselves get wore down by wasting chances to hurt scum.

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BTW are people besides me waiting to grill Inhim replacement? =P

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He has been absent the last couple pages after claiming to read up.

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Can you recap that for me RBT? What concrete things that he has said make you think he's scummy? He's contributed pretty well from where I'm sitting. Looking forward to your thoughts as well CDB.

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I have to go take a math test, I'll catch up on this when I get back. Welcome tajo, good to see you again. =)

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I don't think anyone should be ignoring points by other players, RBT may be blowing smoke at you, but tajo at least deserves an answer if you want a case on him to hold any water. Why are you voting tajo Malcolm? What fell apart?

You think that buddying was totally innocent tajo? I don't know much about his meta, but his excessive lurking can't just be ignored. It's a policy thing for me against people who purposefully scummify their play to disguise their meta. What makes you think Tzee is town? His no attack isn't helpful, he could've read in a couple hours and posted an attack, he can explain himself whenever since the game is nightless and he vanished again after that discussion even though his V/LA is supposed to be over.

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Guys, Tzeenth is town.

That seems... unwise, inHim. If everyone's pokemon are low on HP, then it's quite possible for mafia to snipe people off.

I think it probably makes more sense to try and take people out in one big attack. As long as the attacks are neutral-effective, it shouldn't take more than about five people attacking to take people out. A little bit of extra damage isn't a bad thing, as it means we'll be able to take pokemon out even after some people are out entirely, but I don't think trying to knock everyone down is too wise.

After all, between all the various effects on damage, one person might be able to do as little as 30-40% damage with one attack and be able to kill with another.

This was Tzee's response to inhim's proposition. Its a very potent protown reaction that tries to evaluate the proposal instead of just hunting the player for "omg, what a terrible idea, you are so scum", something that for obbvious reasons scum would do.

Also, his no action yesterday should be at least a nultelll, IMO. Would you feel comfortable with attacking someone when you arent involved in the thread? I wouldnt. And wouldnt be more intelligent for scum to keep lurking instead of confirming a no action? This once again strongly leans to Tzee being town.

I dont think the attacks against him are warranted. We should either attack cdb or sociopath.

Hey socio, what do you think of cdb?

If this is true why has he begun lurking again? He had a V/LA before but now he's disappeared again. I still don't see a reason not to attack in a nightless game, there just wasn't that much content to read it was only D2. CDB has replaced out so I don't feel that attacking him is a wise choice until his replacement is found. I don't think getting mad is a scum-tell, I know I've done that before. I did it in infection and it was used to mislynch me by scum. Overdefensiveness isn't a scum-tell, just cut through it and read the arguments.

[Shotty to the Body]

Tzee is modding a game Im playing in. His access to the site is hectic. You are free to check that game to find out how many real days night 3 lasted, lack of prods, etc.

Look, I can understand why Tzeetown woudln't attack someone without being sure of who to attack which is a very natural town reaction. Its pretty much like me replacing and voting without reading the thread. Tzeescum would be in a better position if he kept lurking instead of confriming a not action, dont you think?

Also cdb geting replaced doesnt mean that all his previous actions shouldn't. Did you read what I posted against him? Or even better what do you think of him?

Also who is scum?

Hey, Shooty remember how I pegged veerus as town in infection for bringing a terrible idea to the game? He was town, right?

Lurking is always a calculated risk, so that could go either way for me. He would've been called out for posting in other games once search came back up.

I don't think all his actions should be disregarded, but I dislike attacking a player slot that is empty. It's going for an incredibly easy lynch when there is no one in that seat to defend it. I'm not really sure I see your point, he fixated on Brandi, but he also kept up with the ZEE debate and then his activity driveled away. Neutral read from me.

Malcolm is creeping back up on my scumdar, I'm considering moving my vote back that way. I really didn't like how FA acted after he attacked ZEE. RBT is sliding from neutral to scummy, his points on Socio are outdated at best and the lack of original content nags at me. I have to consider you, Socio, and Tzee some more. I have too many suspects to vote right now. =\

Cancel Attack

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I agree that we hunt the motivation rather then the plan, my problem is that while I see the motivation you suggest as logical, there's a clear anti-town motivation there as well. It's in scum's favor to enact this plan because town has more Pokemon to knock down, it cuts the amount of discussion we have, and makes it possible for scum or dumb-town to act independently and knock out players. The motivation you suggest is one benefit of the plan, but there were several scum motivations under the surface of it.

[Shotty to the Body]

That makes more sense to me, I'm undecided about my vote still so I'll get back to you.

[Shotty to the Body]

So in a clear cut way, how does everyone feel about the fake-vote mass attack idea tajo is proposing? I think it's a good idea, I'm unclear where Socio and Sajin stand and the rest of you haven't said anything about it.

Rayfrost how are you feeling about your attack right now? Tajo do you still think Socio/CDB are worth lynching? RBT, Brandi, Malcolm, Tzee who do you think we should be attacking?

My list of suspicion stands as follows:

Scummy[/b] (people near the bottom are closer to neutral)
Malcolm
RBT

Neutral

(people near the top are closer to scummy)
Tzee
Socio
CDB
Brandi
Sajin

Pro-Town

(people near the top are closer to neutral)
Rayfrost
Tajo

Attack Malcolm

This is a pretty important idea actually Malcolm, we should've thought of something similar earlier to control the attacks, we have no lynch information because we didn't actually kill anyone and almost everyone is weaker for it.

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I fucked up the tags, but you get the point.

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Can you give me those post numbers Malcolm?

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I think I know what happened. That prob means Socio is town.

I have a theory, but I'm not sure if it confirms his alignment. =\

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Hey guys I had a long day today I'll catch up tomorrow. Welcome replacements.

[Shotty to the Body]

I find Malcolm scummy individually I'm not really sure I see the case on Brandi, if Malcolm flips scum I would have to reconsider that though. Besides a bit of inactivity early on I agree with a lot of what Brandi has said.

Sajin can you explain 586, not really sure what you meant there. (the @tajo part)

Tzee flaking kind of blows the theory on him out of the water, assuming he doesn't pick up his prod by today, don't really see him flaking out as scum right now.

[Shotty to the Body]

No, it means he wasn't lurking to avoid suspicion. I'll still be watching his replacement for Tzee's no action, but he wasn't trying to hide by lurking if he flakes out without picking up a prod clearly.

[Shotty to the Body]

I pretty much want to know the same things as Ray, number 6 is more important to me then the others since you thought ZEE was town and seem to be attacking Ray. You thought Socio was scummy, what do you think of Tajo? Views on the other players etc, LoS if you will, no night-kills in this game so no reason not to just post it.

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The mod said if we discussed that anymore we could be modkilled tajo. =\

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I'd rather start sooner.

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Damn, hope you're feeling better man.

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Why use Dig Brandi? It wastes a turn and you can't change your mind now or vote based on today's discussion....

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I'm still in favor of Tajo's original plan, what about the rest of you?

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Pretty much the same things I attacked him for yesterday. I haven't changed my mind, but I was hoping he would show up to post sometime soon.

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If that's Malcolm's best case nothing has changed for me, so

Attack Malcolm

.

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708 = "omgus"

Gut feeling? What's the case on Malcolm?

Someone needs to reread a bit.

712 is a nice AtE. Well done.

Let's kick the crap out of Malcolm. A scum flip should put Brandi next in line. A third scum or survivor role should not be ruled out.

The set-up is open Kik, 2 scum 8 townies that's all.

[Shotty to the Body]

Or the motive to look town for defending town, which could be scummy as well. Especially if it's not a particularly strong defense either.

That's pretty wheels within wheels, how do you determine a strong defense versus a weak defense?

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Agree with Myko, we need info to move forward waiting for deadline is a waste of time.

Confirm Attack Malcolm

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I don't wanna just "go along" with you lot...

gimme a good reason to go with malc over tzee.

So we aren't spreading damage around without getting alignment flips?

[Shotty to the Body]

I don't wanna just "go along" with you lot...

gimme a good reason to go with malc over tzee.

So we aren't spreading damage around without getting alignment flips?

and why aren't you guys likely to K.O. malc's last pokemon anyway?

True enough, but I thought we were trying to control the damage.

[Shotty to the Body]

I'm catching up today, just finished a pile of schoolwork.

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RBT Rayfrost

The points against RBT have piled up all game, I think we should actually do something about them now, Rayfrost is being super wishy-washy about him as well.

Attack RBT

[Shotty to the Body]

RBT Rayfrost

The points against RBT have piled up all game, I think we should actually do something about them now, Rayfrost is being super wishy-washy about him as well.

Attack RBT

How am I being "wishy-washy" about RBT? I've yet to say I find RBT anything other than scummy when asked.

I AM being wishy-washy about brandi. I have changing reads cuz she keeps flipping from leaning one way to leaning the other.

I'm waiting for this.

Sorry about my absence, it was a busy weekend. You've always said you find her scummy, but you never attacked him, if you repeatedly thought he was scummy why did you never act on it?

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What are the points of these votes...

Can you explain your specific problems with killing RBT to me Myko?

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How is it different from a vanilla 2/10 nightless though? That's what it becomes when town follows optimum play, it's just like lynching someone every day except for these two concepts. It might take a little bit longer to lynch someone and, in theory, individuals being lynched can whittle down the strength of people they think are scum if they so choose. Since there's no kill or lynch mechanic scum actually have to kill everyone so they don't automatically win when it comes down to 2/2 or 1/1. If the play is boring it's most likely our fault...

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I am forced to agree.

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Then he sucks at cheating because I was scum.

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I don't really know, I thought he was joking...

[Shotty to the Body]

I don't know what happened, I'm sorry. I thought we'd ended. =\ TBH after RBT was revealed I felt like I was going to be next, my switch to him would've been sudden in retrospect considering today was the first time I'd voiced any suspicion of him at all. Plus I had to agree with Sajin that not following the plan made you a huge target and following it made it improbable to win. I sincerely apologize for that Slicey.

[Shotty to the Body]

Don't worry Shotty, it's fine. Shit happens.

You can repay me by joining KH Mafia, that is if you're interested of course.

Will do, I'd like to actually finish a game with you and all my games are winding down so I need to get somewhere back near 3-4 active games. =)

[Shotty to the Body]

Although Tajo was wrong in that it confirmed me as town.

No.

This is what I thought.

You talked with Brandi about the game and somehow you knew or concluded she was town. And as you tell, this is exactly what happened here. That's a big and unfair advantage to only one alignment: town. Scum already knew Brandi was town so if you had been scum you wouldn't have needed to replace out.

Yeah I had the same thoughts on Socio after he replaced out it was the only thing that made sense. I would've liked to remove you from the running after playing Infection with you but it was made rather difficult.

[Shotty to the Body]

Lol I picked platinum up half-way through this game for the first time and really would've picked something other than Skarmory given the opportunity, probably a Magmortar/Electivire or Azelf if he would've been allowed. I love Lapras though so it was definitely there to stay.

[Shotty to the Body]

I had figured Brandi checked her account on the site, forgot to logout, and Socio had seen her PM. Also, Tajo, as you know, I'm ALWAYS an easy target. That said, I was certain people were going to start looking at me and Shotty for having not replaced out after how long the game had been going.

Also, I picked two of my favorite pokémon, Flareon really isn't that strong, but Umbreon is. My moveset wasn't that great either. If we had more available, you'd have seen a team full of Eeveelutions.

Was it just us and Brandi that had been there from D1?

[Shotty to the Body]

Yeah if I had played through Plat when I started I would've sent Lapras first and maybe gotten a switch-in on an electric move with Electivire but it seems like that would've been hard to pull off.