Mini 810: Infection! Mini - Game over!

[Kise]

@Tajo - What is it about veerus that you believe is town-like? I'm having an opposing reading of him.

[Kise]

..... hey, all. Thanks for the welcome.

[Kise]

No lynching is a hard idea for me to accept due to the fact the Infected pass on their disease to another, then die. So that means that if someone, like Shotty, who I get a heavy town-vibe from, got infected during the night, I'd still be confident in him despite the fact he turned into a scumbag.

Letting others get infected during Night 1 will really confuse things going into Day 2.

[Kise]

I can only list two? That's no fun.

I get a weird vibe from Tajo.. obviously, he hasn't said anything scummy, but the things he says just make my gut feel funny. I'm curious to know more about how he came to the conclusion of who is prob-town & prob-scum.

As for my 2nd suspect... I don't have anything to make a strong case on anyone, so as far as everyone else goes, you all are somewhere in the middle.

Bermuda Triangle.

[Kise]

Go for it then.

Unvote; Vote: charter

Ha! I dare you to be OMGUSy.

[Kise]

Sorry... I missed the RVS and had to get that out of my system.

So, care to explain what it is about Post 229 that makes me suspicious?

[Kise]

209***

[Kise]

@Tajo - I agree that Shotty leans more towards being prob-town, but I just didn't see it with veerus. KKN is more of a null read to me. I wouldn't say he's played in a greatly pro-town manner ITT, so I also wondered why you put him down as prob-town. I just see it as you possibly buddying up to a select few.

Also Tajo, I read this post from FA and thought he could be an Infected that wanted the game to stretch out for a while before no lynching in order to decide upon the best person to target at night; IE going after the most town-like person in the game so that they become Infected, then having that person use everyone else's trust to survive during the day & play the town. Without further ado, here's the post I'm talking about.

Especially if a NL majority comes up too fast for major discussion to occur. I think that we should wait to see about no lynch, try and get some discussion going, and then once we're more then four pages in deicide.

I also don't like this post:

Reading, will post tonight.

Especially when it's followed by this post, an entire day later:

Then why are you pretending not to? You're taking his points out of context by saying he lurks.

[Kise]

And here, he dislikes the idea of a test subject fakeclaiming to be a scientist for some odd reason. A day later, he states states again how he does not think anyone should fakeclaim scientist. Scum wouldn't want to target a fakeclaimer who only teased about being a power role, because unless they can infect a power role, the town's chances of winning is not crippled. I could see how an Infected FA would say things like this; I could understand the scum-logic that motivated it.

Actually, I could see a lot of scum-influence (more so than town-influence) when reading him in iso.

[Kise]

Kise, I fail to understand how your question answers Tajo's...

What the....!?
OK, let's start from the beginning.

I get a weird vibe from Tajo.. obviously, he hasn't said anything scummy, but the things he says just make my gut feel funny. I'm curious to know more about how he came to the conclusion of who is prob-town & prob-scum.

What in my posts dont you like?

Then, I proceed to tell him what I (as he put it) don't like about his post. -->

I agree that Shotty leans more towards being prob-town, but I just didn't see it with veerus. KKN is more of a null read to me. I wouldn't say he's played in a greatly pro-town manner ITT, so I also wondered why you put him down as prob-town. I just see it as you possibly buddying up to a select few.

Theorizing that Tajo is scum, I go over how he could possibly be buddying up to the likes of everyone on his prob-town list. Also, the fact that PaperPenguin didn't really say much also made me curious how I lean more towards town than neutral to him. I sincerely would place someone like PP in the null category... but whatever!


Wait... I don't think we started at the beginning.....










HERE is the beginning:

My list

Prob town

veerus
Kise
charter
Kid Know Nothing
Shotty to the Body

So when you piece it all together, I do answer Tajo's question. You just fail to see it because I am questioning how you were prob-town.

[Kise]

So was your vote serious or not? You didn't answer my question at all.

I get the feeling that you're just waiting for me to unvote so you can vote me, free of OMGUSiness... but no, vote is not serious, as I hinted this when I mentioned how I wanted to get the "RVS" out of my system.

Sure. You start out by complaining you can only list two suspects, but then you don't even list two. You mention tajo's name, but you didn't answer my question very well at all. You basically said you don't find anyone suspicious. Your answers to my questions were all just sidesteps, and you avoided actually naming anyone that you supposedly find scummy. The post was very scummy.
Incidently, I do want the two people you think most likely to be scum and why.

Seriously? I HAVE to find people two people scummy in order to get your approval? This is petty, charter. But, luckily for your appetite, recent events have led me to look further into FA & veerus. Posts 228 & 229 should explain my suspicion towards FA. Veerus is only a gut-feeling, really, based on the NL proposal so early on in the game. And I did mistake him for a newbscum-player by the name of vesuvius and believed lightning was striking twice here. Still, my mistake does not dismiss my suspicion of veerus.

And on par with KKN, I think any kind of list would only help to create WIFOM during later stages, be it town list or suspect list. Mafia are accustomed to factoring in things like that when deciding on who to NK/(Infect). When the next day rolls around, players will more than likely look too hard into who the killed-player favored or suspected. So, no list is good. Best thing to do is narrow down who is the single most scummy and vote for them, UNLESS you have more than one suspect, in which case I did not at the time.

Unvote; Vote: Fallen Angel

[Kise]

@charter - If by 'fine' you are meaning to say that I think Tajo is town, I don't. I never concretely believed Tajo was scum in the 1st place; I mentioned having a weird vibe from him, and merely theorized what kind of mindset he had when he made that list of his. Did you expect me to have tunnel-vision with Tajo? Besides the fact that I was not 100% on his motives (not until after questioning him), I don't see what your big fuss is about me lowering suspicion on another player. It happens. Deal with it.

Read me in iso and you'll see in Post 2 how I feel about [veerus'] no lynching. Post 3 states that I have nothing strong to go by, so Tajo's weird vibes was all I had. Post 7 is a response to Tajo after he asked everyone their thoughts on FA, so I did an iso-review on him and that led up to my vote against him & other subsequent posts concerning him.

Also, when you get a chance to comment on your opinion of FA, could you also list your top two suspects? I know in Post 243 you say you're not sold on anyone, but two seems to be your magic number. So, who are your two?

[Kise]

Lost in translation.

I don't know what else to talk about atm.

Co-sign. Mainly waiting on some responses.

[Kise]

Happy scumday, Xyl & charter. If that means anything.

[Kise]

@Tajo - I started a trend:

I sincerely would place someone like PP in the null category... but whatever!

Still, Kelly can answer Post 292 for herself.

[Kise]

Well, for what it's worth, Tajo, I have no clue what the hell PP was talking about when he said all vanillas should commit suicide. Like, was he trying to round up the power roles by separating them from those who claimed VT?

Help me for personal knowledge. Is there a suicide-mechanic in this game?

[Kise]

Ok, so PP wanted to narrow down who was vanilla and who was 'other' by massclaim?

[Kise]

He wasn't misguided townie then. He was simply...



For what it's worth, BM is catching up in another game of ours.

[Kise]

Forgot to address this:

I don't think you've interacted with/mentioned half the people here. How can you complain about nothing to discuss when you haven't discussed with a lot of the players in this game?

What is it with you and numbers, seriously? There are a dozen players here and I'm fairly certain I've spoken to a decent amount. Don't try to slap gristle onto your case. Meat, or GTFO.

The players I haven't [directly] spoken to gave me no reason to spark a convo that would expose them as possible-scum. Kelly & KKN were trying to understand what the other was saying. I had no reason to get in-between that. Others are having discussions with each other in order to understand the other person's independent mindset. Is there a particular reason I should feel contrived to corroborate others? I'm already having exchanges with others, you included. Scum aren't great in number, and I've got FA & veerus in my sights, so I have no reason to unjustly instigate anyone else if I feel like those 2 are the Infected.

[Kise]

V/LA starting tomorrow, up until sometime Monday.

[Kise]

I'm back.... still page 14?!?!?!?

Post 332 is how I felt about Tajo at first. I didn't like the lists, at all.. It influences others into regarding someone as [prob] town, and that will be a problem if this person isn't protected via vaccination and becomes infected. I also did not favor multiple people being on a prob-town. The fact that they outnumber the scientist(s) means not all can be vaccinated.

Personal opinions should be taken with a grain of salt, but when it comes down to it, it's both an influence and a distraction.

Deadline is in another day. I'm still comfortable with my vote.

[Kise]

KKN --->

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 10#1753910
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 13#1753913

[Kise]

Thunderstorm has been taking my net in and out. I got some other games where I'm way behind, so forgive me for checking into those 1st. I'll come here next.

I know I'm gonna get behind... bah!

[Kise]

If we started with 3 scum, and had 2 left last night, we can still probably rule out anyone who can be considered a weaker player than Malthusis. I'd say that includes Mokina, and possibly Kise too.

Gee, thanks. Didn't know I was considered weak, especially since I pegged FA as scum based off a psychological assessment.

Check the sig. I still haven't caught up since D2 began, but I'll be back to a computer by Friday.

[Kise]

My bad for being offline for so long. It was beyond my control. I'll have to catch up tomorrow, but based on what I've skimmed, charter makes a good point that if BM is lying, then the real body guard can kill him N2.

[Kise]

I am completely caught up on D2, but charter does the work for me by revealing Mokina's eyebrow-raising distance from the 2 known infected. Theory is the best route to get scum, especially with the lot of you pointing fingers everywhere.

Vote: The Replacement

I got that feeling about BM.. I hate to direct, but just in case he is an infected-Guard, scientist should target him so he doesn't chicken out and infect someone else before we find out he can't shoot any more (if that was the case).

[Kise]

Your reasoning for The Replacement is compelling and very spot on while my reasoning is largely circumstancial. I'd prefer his lynch with BM-guard shooting KC.

Well... I wouldn't go as far as directing the guard-kill. Unless, we all come to a concensus on who the 2nd most scummy person is? BM is currently my #2 suspect, but if he hasn't been infected then (going off theory again) KKN is another person who had a distance from the known infected. I won't bother to iso read him until either the day ends or he sets off the scumdar.

[Kise]

Maybe because you weren't on the FA wagon[?]

I would have said veerus & FA were partners based on FA's support of the NL, but the way malt' tries to derail the FA wagon and get veerus lynched makes me reconsider.

[Kise]

You asked her a question, sure. But being that it was posted publicly, I went and did some iso reading on you myself, rather than wait around for KC to voice her opinion. I'd like to compare with whatever she has to say as well. Though I did not tell you beforehand that I believed you could be original scum, the thought is still there. Asking Kelly is like blindly asking me, since her & I share a suspicion. So why not have me answer my version as well?

After FA's flip, I went back and looked at how you antagonized me and your stance on FA. As KC mentioned her suspicion of you, the thought has crossed my mind, and honestly what applies to Mokina D1 (her distance from malt' & FA) also applies to you. I didn't realize this until you asked KC why you could be original scum.

Basically.....

Unvote: The Replacement

It's a 2-way street right.

[Kise]

Mokina never mentioned FA or malthusis, whereas I did. These aren't the same situation at all.

Yet & still, mere mentions =/= interactions. However, in your case, those mere mentions do equal distancing when you consider that you never had any opposition or suspicion of either malt' or FA. You & Mokina were both distanced from the 2 infected players, so all is fair if you ask me.

[Kise]

Add that to the fact YOU were the one who suggested BM can be guard-killed if he's fakeclaiming... In the event the two of you are scum, it currently would look like you're rallying to lynch The Replacement and save BM. BM is a likely vaccine target, whereas you would have the opportunity to try and infect someone. (And before anyone says it, I know it's probable to target Test Subject) Understand where I'm coming from.

[Kise]

I co-sign the two above me.. please explain both the vote and why you think those certain people could be infected or not.

[Kise]

So in a nutshell/TL;DR, Kelly, you're undecided about pretty much everyone? Also, your post doesn't quite explain why Shotty in particular is scum. I do see that you list how unlikely it is that anyone else was recruited > Shotty, but is that honestly good enough?

[Kise]

So in a nutshell/TL;DR, Kelly, you're undecided about pretty much everyone?

How did you get that out of what you tl;dred?

No, I read your entire post. My reply was to say that, in short, you seem undecided.

Can you do better? charter has just one more person than me as neither, with most of his suspects as recruits. I don't understand what that can be based on. What makes Shotty, BM, or Kid impossible as original scum? (Surely what makes Kid unlikely as original scum also makes him unlikely as recruited scum...?)

I think it's very possible KKN was original scum. Anyone who hesitated to vote for FA (or didn't vote him) automatically is placed in the category of being possible-infected with him.

I do see that you list how unlikely it is that anyone else was recruited > Shotty, but is that honestly good enough?

Not sure what you mean. I prefer to place Shotty as original scum

Ah, ok. Understood.

At the risk of influencing a quicklynch, I would like to point out that if we entered night phase before replacements for either KKN or TR, it would be interesting to see if any infections go through. I am sold [again] on TR being original scum. Is anyone else willing to experiment by seeing if any NAs go through w/o replacements?

[Kise]

I'll have to re-read things before I settle on a vote. Good point by charter regarding a random scum night action.

[Kise]

page 13/14 i would hjave lynched KKn by now

Heheh... should we now

[Kise]

Lulz.

V/LA for 2 days, beginning tomorrow

[Kise]

Back. Will read the few posts I missed tonight...

[Kise]

Was kinda hoping i'd be killed tonight, but not likely, given that i might have ended up being protected.

Killed by who, and protected by who?

[Kise]

I believe malthusis could also die if he targeted a Test Subject, or if he targeted a player and the Scientist vaccinated that player to block them from being infected.

Vote: tubby216

[Kise]

In all fairness, KKN also did a deadline vote, AFTER veerus.

[Kise]

I thought OMGUS was only constituted whenever you vote for someone who's voted you 1st(???)

It was more of a gauging-vote, with slight belief that tubby is scum based on [what I feel is] silly speculation regarding what happened with malthusis during the night -- not to forget his jumpy triple posting. It reads more as a detraction to BM's lynch, and, at this point, I don't see how he can express trust in anyone (let alone BM) after Mage's admittance to fakeclaiming. Meta or no meta, my belief in tubby being scum is more fueled by the triple post that seemed to have been inspired only as a form of deterrence.

[Kise]

What happened to just letting the real Guard kill BM?

[Kise]

I'm on board for a tubby or ani' lynch. I'm not seeing the points against Shotty, TBH. Besides, he's entertaining as hell when he's riled up. He's like the Andrew Dice Clay of mafiascum.

Was kinda hoping i'd be killed tonight, but not likely, given that i might have ended up being protected.

Killed by who, and protected by who?

Killed by the actual Guard, and protected by that wierd role that protects people. It's in the OP but i cant remember the name.

BM

The Scientist only protect from infection, not guard kills. You were screwed if that was your plan.

[Kise]

Now that I think about it, I wouldn't mind lynching BM. I was hoping he'd be sniped by the Guard, but it really doesn't matter if he gets killed or another [scummy] player.

[Kise]

Sorry for the triple post.

Unvote; Vote: Battle Mage

Let's jam!

[Kise]

Lol

What were the main points against Dice Clay?

Also, what are the chances that nothing happened last night due to vaccination/block, as opposed to the infected not desiring to send in an action?

[Kise]

This is.. risky... we've already lost the test subject. If Shotty is really scientist (or

was

), I have a feeling he'd be the only one, meaning everyone else is susceptible to being infected.

ani's bouncing around makes me feel uneasy. Post 816 is... "funny" in that it seemingly only takes him a minute to realize that Shotty in fact did post who he targeted N1 & N2. Looks like he's trying to get townie points by appearing to do the right thing, by unvoting until Shotty gives his results.

[Kise]

The more any of you waffle on Shotty now, the easier you are making it for Shotty's buddy to hide amongst.

Elaborate, please.

[Kise]

.......

Anyway.

I feel like a sucker.. you're using reverse AtE by saying Shotty should be lynched now with no delay, then accuse anyone of extending the day to be his partner.

If Shotty flips town, then what/who?

[Kise]

If for some reason you don't want to answer that last question, I'm fine with that. I could understand why, given post 824.

Someone else can hammer. I'm not sure if RV, veerus or pop have anything else to add, so, won't be me.

[Kise]

Vote: tubby

Enough bullshit.

[Kise]

Kelly didn't get us to lynch Shotty. You did. You were the 1st one on the wagon and made it seem like you were counterclaiming Scientist..

[Kise]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 40#1831240

On top of replacing KKN (who deadline-voted/possibly bussed FA Day 1), and his reasoning that veerus could have been original scum despite that theory being repeatedly disproven by malthusis' comments.... oh yeah, and providing no reason for voting Shotty.

[Kise]

I only had a small suspicion of you Chen. I was about ready to question charter's pseudo-counterclaim, but now I see there were 3 friggin' scientists. Good job, all. Good game, Xyl.