Mini 809 ~ Mafia ViPod (Game Over!)

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Confirm.

---image replaces Atticus.Finch, and Pesco47 replaces Lindisfarne. Worship them according to your personal beliefs.

Smite:

Vote: X

for being insufficiently worshipful.

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I certainly believe hasd's explanation of why he asked those questions; I don't think it points one way or another to him being a power role. If you want to get really WIFOM'y, you could argue that it points towards him being vanilla, as if he were a PR, he would have asked the question privately to avoid attracting attention. (Alliteration!)

VP Baltar bringing up the question as an implication of a night action was, in my opinion, overall a good thing for the town. Scum almost certainly noticed it, and by bringing it up, VP B has given hasd an opportunity to assert that it was in no way a claim of a night action and that it should not be considered as such. If he in fact is a power role, this has given him an opportunity to cover up a possible mistake. (I mean, really. What was he going to say? "Yes, I admit it, I'm the cop-doc-mason-recruiting-vigilante!")

Elvis has seemed a bit overbearing, but not scummy.

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Unvote

.

First, I will say of Pesco, I don't find him particularly scummy for voting VP Baltar whilst FoS'ing elvis. The way I interpret this is as an assertion that "(VP B is scum OR elvis is scum) AND (VP B scum more likely than elvis scum)", which is an acceptable belief.

[/url]It's really quite an obvious softclaim, but you have skilfully led the town to believe otherwise.

You have gained the attention of the mafia, and have set yourself for a kill.

I'm sure someone as experienced as you wouldn't have maid such a careless mistake, therefore I have to conclude that you wanted to die.

Wait, how do you know that the mafia picked up on the first, alleged, soft claim? How do you know they would have killed hasd? How do you know they would have believed the claim?

[/url]And you probably would have, had less attention been brought to your plan.

Again, how do you know so much about the mind of the mafia?

[/url]Death Miller?
Jester?
Unkillable?
Guy with a Gun?

Wait, why would a jester or a death miller want to be NK'd? Why would a bulletproof or a PGO drop such an 'obvious' softclaim, if the reaction to such an obvious claim is to wind up not NK'ing hasd?

[/url]That's where I have you for now, but I would still gut you on the end game, as bread-crumbing is scummy. There, I've explained myself.

You've just softclaimed - and softclaiming on the first day, where the mafia can't isolate roles just yet, is just begging for a kill. Thus, you are low hanging fruit.

You would choose to hang hasd in endgame based solely off of something that

could

be interpreted as a softclaim? You don't think there may be better things to go off of in the endgame?

Combined bad logic and seeming to know the mind of the scum too well makes me

Vote: PaperPenguin

.

Also,

FoS: Empking

for posting no content and hopping onto the VP Baltar wagon almost without reason.

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First, I will say of Pesco, I don't find him particularly scummy for voting VP Baltar whilst FoS'ing elvis. The way I interpret this is as an assertion that "(VP B is scum OR elvis is scum) AND (VP B scum more likely than elvis scum)", which is an acceptable belief.

I don't think that is what he said at all actually. Give me your thoughts on these quotes:

There's no good reason for me not to suspect the both of you.

If I don't have 2 votes to throw around, I make do with a FoS. In my mind, I've already lined them up as my lynch preferences.

If you interpret "OR" as a logical, not necessarily exclusive or, which is how I intended it to be interpreted, than those quotes seem (to me at least) to enforce my interpretation. Pesco suspecting both of you does not imply that he thinks the two of you are scum together, merely that he thinks that each of you is more likely than the average person to be scum.

@Pesco

: Do you think it likely that elvis and VP Baltar are scum together? Or merely that at least one of them is scum? Why do you find VP Baltar more likely scum than elvis?

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I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling--
Got to make you understand

Vote Count V + I:

You know the rules, and so do I!

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

(We know the game, and we're gonna play it.)

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Not sure if pesco is still the most scummy at the moment. Hascow and PP both need a re-investigation. Will post again when I've had some actual sleep.

"...But until then I'll just leave my vote on Pesco in case someone decides to hammer and I get to help a mislynch while distancing myself from the wagon a bit."

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Not sure if pesco is still the most scummy at the moment. Hascow and PP both need a re-investigation. Will post again when I've had some actual sleep.

"...But until then I'll just leave my vote on Pesco in case someone decides to hammer and I get to help a mislynch while distancing myself from the wagon a bit."

One, looking at Vi's vote count Pesco was at lynch -2 so that would have to be a couple of quick votes.

And two, how do you know it will be a mislynch?

It wouldn't need to be quick votes; just two before Moriarty gets around to posting again.

I don't know that Pesco would be a mislynch. I was implying that Moriarty did, and was attempting to distance himself from the wagon without actually moving it farther from a lynch.

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Perhaps; I don't think it is a very strong point. Noteworthy, though, at least.

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Not sure if pesco is still the most scummy at the moment. Hascow and PP both need a re-investigation. Will post again when I've had some actual sleep.

"...But until then I'll just leave my vote on Pesco in case someone decides to hammer and I get to help a mislynch while distancing myself from the wagon a bit."

image for putting words in moriarty's mouth.

Would you have found it better if I had written something more along these lines?

Not sure if pesco is still the most scummy at the moment. Hascow and PP both need a re-investigation. Will post again when I've had some actual sleep.

If you are questioning pesco's scumminess, why are you leaving your vote on him? Are you hoping he'll wind up getting lynched, but simultaneously trying to distance yourself from the wagon?

This is the message I was trying to convey, although in a more sardonic manner. You will also note that Moriarty has yet to post his promised analysis.

---

Then he backs off of it, saying it's not a very strong point. Really? You seemed to be making it strong to me, by putting it in its own post.

IGMEOY

Also, image, anything to say about pesco, f-light, or Sotty? I don't think I've seen you mention them at all.

Merely because I did not have much else I felt worth saying at the time. You will note that it is unaccompanied by any of a Vote, a FoS, or even an IGMEOY.

I did not at first find Pesco suspicious for attacking both VP and Elvis. Of course, he subsequently fails at backing up his vote on elvis, eventually falling back on

gut

intuition. I would now place him somewhere between neutral and scum.
Fairly neutral read about FL. Mildly concerned that she refuses to take a side with respect to elvis/VP Baltar/pesco, and rather throws blanket suspicion on all of them, but this is (for the moment) an acceptable stance.
Mild pro-town read on Sotty.

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How convenient. Just as we're getting near an activity-based deadline, the subjects of both wagons vanish, leaving us without enough information to make an informed lynch before said deadline... Not that this is necessarily scummy on either of their parts, but annoying for sure.

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Bah, just realised that that is a false dichotomy. Posting when sleep-deprived is bad.

EBWOP:
"... without enough information to make an informed lynch

on either of the people most likely to be lynched before said deadline...

"

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I too am suspicious of Elvis for reasons Empking can't recall; this seems like a very iron-clad case, and I'm wondering why Elvis hasn't been lynched yet.[/sarcasm]

I'm leery of an Empking lynch because he hasn't done anything scummy; more generally, he hasn't done anything. It seems like it is going to give the scum a free ride through day two. That being said, Empking, if you're going to continue playing like this (or not playing, as the case may be) then you will be a necessary lynch today. So please, if you are town, be more helpful.

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Well, this seems to be the least violent prod yet...

I too am suspicious of Elvis for reasons Empking can't recall; this seems like a very iron-clad case, and I'm wondering why Elvis hasn't been lynched yet.[/sarcasm]

I'm leery of an Empking lynch because he hasn't done anything scummy; more generally, he hasn't done anything. It seems like it is going to give the scum a free ride through day two. That being said, Empking, if you're going to continue playing like this (or not playing, as the case may be) then you will be a necessary lynch today. So please, if you are town, be more helpful.

*TWEEEEEEET*

SCUMMY POST ALERT.

First off, we have the /sarcasm tag. While I understand that people use this, I always find it scummy, because one thing that I've found is that subconsciously, scum want to tell you they're scum, and will say something only scum would say, but hide it as a joke.

However, that pales compared to the second part. Full wishy-washiness on Empking. "empking's not scummy, but he's also not town because he's not here. oh, and empking, be helpful if you're town. This entire post REEKS of scum hinting to their buddy that they have to bus them, or at the very least, scum trying to act town by telling the town lurker to be more helpful.

vote: image

"I too am suspicious of Y for reasons Empking can't recall" seems, to me, like something not even a scum would want to say seriously, subconsciously or otherwise. This is the problem I have with Empking's play: it doesn't even fit with how I would expect the most transparent scum to behave; it just seems like bad play. It is not providing any reasoning, merely an assertion. And this is my ultimate problem with Empking: he has not done enough, one way or another, for me to get any sort of read on his alignment, and from my understanding of his meta, he plays this way regardless of his alignment. It seems to me like lynching him would yield an n/11 chance of hitting scum, where n is the number of scum in the game.

I ask Empking to talk more not because I know his alignment and want to look good for helping the town lurker out/warning my buddy I'm going to bus him/whatever, but simply because if he talks more, I can try to gauge his alignment. I would certainly

not

take an increase in his posting, on its own, as any indication of towniness.

Of course, if Empking continues to post as little as this, I very much don't want him around in endgame. Yes, I realise I'm flip-flopping. This is because I simply don't know how to deal with a player like Empking.

@Empking: Yesterday, when both the PP wagon and the Pesco wagon were roughly the same size and we were nearing deadline, you joined the PP wagon, stating a reason that applied to both equally. Why?

Why are people voting Juls instead of Empking? As far as I see, all of the reasons for Juls to be scum amount to buddying with Empking. And if we're wrong about them being buddies together, I'd prefer to remove Empking from the game than Juls.

If I understand correctly, people are voting Juls because her interaction with and attitude towards Empking seem unnatural. If Empking flips town, I don't see this as dispelling arguments against Juls, no more than I would see Empking flipping scum as confirming them. Something weird has been going on between Juls and Empking.

So, who do I find suspicious at the moment? Juls for weird interaction with Empking.

Also, Forbiddanlight for some weird play yesterday: she spent most of the day pushing an Emp wagon, while making small attacks at VPB, EK, and Pesco, putting these four as her top four vig's. She then places PP as her second pick for a lynch, conveniently right around the time he becomes the second largest wagon. It seems a bit like she is trying to cover all of her bases, making sure to cover all of yesterdays major vote-getters with blanket suspicion that will allow her to reasonably jump on any of those wagons should it become large enough.

Empking would not be an unacceptable lynch, but I do not see this as the ideal lynch; at least, not yet.

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@Empking: The point you quoted was that both had lurked to the point of being prodded when pressure on them was high. How does this apply more to PP than Pesco? How is it more scummy on PP's part?

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Well, Empking continues to be terse and unhelpful, despite my hopes to the contrary. While I still am unconvinced that he is scum, I have no reason to believe that he is town, and due to dropping battery power I will, barring a marked improvement in Empking's play or objections from anyone else, be willing to hammer. A player like this is

not

someone I want hanging around in the late game, and today seems like the day to get rid of him.

Empking: Please claim.

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Well, Empking continues to be terse and unhelpful, despite my hopes to the contrary. While I still am unconvinced that he is scum, I have no reason to believe that he is town, and due to dropping battery power I will, barring a marked improvement in Empking's play or objections from anyone else, be willing to hammer. A player like this is

not

someone I want hanging around in the late game, and today seems like the day to get rid of him.

Empking: Please claim.

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Ack, sorry for the double post.