Mini 805 - Betrayal House - over!

[PsychoSniper]

/confirm

Do we pick a room now or wait for everyone to confirm?

[PsychoSniper]

Don't vaults tend to be in the basement?

I'll take Room 3 in the upper floor. Just to break the pattern of everyone taking all the Rm 1s first.

[PsychoSniper]

Vote AshMC1984

for choosing the basement after claiming to hate confined spaces. Suspcious!

[PsychoSniper]

I have no prior knowledge of the boardgame, so I don't reallly know the full significance of a nameclaim. Reading through the names Kast provided, there doesn't appear to be any obvious scum candidates anyway, so I'm not sure what it'll accomplish.

The one thing we know for sure is that it allows us to keep track of who gets what items in the Day, since the mod lists them for all to see.

I'm not sure what the items are supposed to mean at the stage, either, but if it gives them abilities of clues of any sort, I think this might provide scum specific targets.

Yeah, so far I don't see any benefits in the nameclaim idea. Maybe you'd like to expain your thoughts more, Herodotus?

[PsychoSniper]

Fair enough.

[PsychoSniper]

Ok. For those who haven't played the game:

Everyone starts the same (since we're not using stats here), and as the players walk through the rooms, they get powers. The mod has said that _some_ of the items are revealed. So all name claiming will reveal is who got what items.

Also, the game has exactly 12 characters, which are not divided in any particular way as good/bad characters. So it seems pretty clear that all characters of the game will be here, and nameclaiming will not give us hints on who is scum.

On the other hand, role/claim/item claiming will distract the town from what we should be doing in this stage of the game, which is trying to form bandwagons and look/dig for scummy behavior. I suggest that we postpone any game mechanics/claim discussion to day 2, and concentrating on trying to get some scum right now.


========

In that sense, I'll

unvote. Vote Psychosniper

for posts 42 and 44. The fact that he already has 2 votes on him is a bonus.

(btw, mod, votecount?)

Uh....would you please run that by me again? I've read your post over and over and all I see is you more or less parroting what I've already stated in post 42 before putting a vote on me.

You brought up the fact that name-claiming allows us to track who gets what item, which was exactly what I said.

You said that the characters in the game have no clear good/bad alignment, so there's no obvious benefit from name-claims.....again, exactly what I stated.

The only new thing you brought up was the fact that there are exactly 12 character in this game, which I did not know.

I also asked Herodotus to explain his reasons for wanting a name-claim more clearly.....which is exactly what you did yourself in post 38.

So what's your reason for voting me again? The only part of your post tha makes sense to me is the fact that you want to form bandwagons and I just happened to have the most votes.

What was your purpose in repeating what I said and thn voting for me?

[PsychoSniper]

Sure, I'll answer you. Answer me two simple questions first:

1- Who are the two people you find most scummy right now and why?

2- What do you think of Heretodus?

I can't really answer either of this. No one strikes me as scummy as yet. Half the players haven't posted enough for me to read them. And I will form my opnion on Herotodus

after

I hear the reason for his proposal, which is what I've been waiting for since yesterday.

[PsychoSniper]

Unvote, vote skitzer

, just a mini-prod for one of the silent players to post.

[PsychoSniper]

all I see is you more or less parroting

Funny, because what YOU said is just more or less a summary of the info Kast put on the thread. So when I say it, it is parroting, when you say it, it is... ?

Did I accuse you of being scummy because you parroted me? I didn't. I was more confused over the fact that everything else you posted fit with what I said, then followed by a vote on me with no actual explanation. I don't consider parroting someone to be scummy action if you happen to agree with said person, but apparently, according what you posted above, you

do

consider it scummy, so why are you doing it yourself?

Herodotus asked everyone for their opinions on nameclaim, and I posted mine, and yes, it agrees with everything Kast said. And that's wrong because.....?

I also asked Herodotus to explain his reasons for wanting a name-claim more clearly.....which is exactly what you did yourself in post 38.

Except that, when he said "I'll say it later", you just said "ah, ok". Weak.

And again, that's wrong because....? He didn't say he isn't going to answer, just that he wants to wait to see others' opinion. I can wait, I see no reason not to. Unless you're trying to force a quick Day 1???

Then later you switch to a weak vote on a lurker, when we have much better stuff to go on with. Why, for instance, not vote on heretodus, who has not yet answered your questions?

I would have thought that answer would be obvious. Let me lay it out simple for you:

- Herodotus says he wants to hear from others before he explains.

- I want to hear his explanation.

- There are lurkers/inactive guys that have yet to voice their opinion on his question. If Hero's answer was an excuse not to answer, getting everyone to speak up takes away that excuse.

Herodotus isn't going to just fade into the background after what he proposed, there's guaranteed to be sustained attention on him for a while, I don't see the need to pressure him at this point.

And there's something else. Since I personally can't see any benefits in name-claims, I sort of figured perhaps Hero was doing this to prompt a reaction from everyone in order to read them instead of really wanting a claim. I've seen other (pro-town) players try this in past games. I see no harm in obstructing him and would rather help it along.

And here's something else that's funny: why would you expect me to vote on Hero for not answering my questions, when you're not doing it yourself? He hasn't answered your question either at the time, did he? You voted me for being willing to wait for his answer, but apparently YOU hadn't pressured him for the same answers you wanted from him.

Hypocritical, much?

An when I ask you your opinions on the players, after three pages, you have none. None? Really? Are you playing the game? Or are you just waiting for a townie wagon to form so you can find an excuse to jump in?

Funny, the only one who's jumped on a convenient town wagon so far is you, how I love the irony.

There were only 3 things of note in that 3 pages: your attack on me, of which I was more confused than suspicious because of how you presented your post; Herodotus suggestion, of which I'd already explained what I wanted; and Slicey being voted by Kast. By your definition, wouldn't I have hopped on the "convenient" Slicey case for being the only other guy to take a serious vote other thean myself if I were scum?

So what's your reason for voting me again?

You are extremely on the wall, refusing to really contribute to the game.

Not everyone plays by your style. I don't think it's wrong to listen to what everyone has to say before casting a serious vote.

The only part of your post tha makes sense to me is the fact that you want to form bandwagons and I just happened to have the most votes.

So why don't you call me scummy for it? Because you know that I'm right about you being scum, and you are praying that if you stare at me in a mean way I'll get scared and back off.

Not going to happen. Happy with my vote

Why would I call you scummy for that? I know you like bandwagons, there's nothing wrong with that, I understand lots of players play that way, that's why I didn't even question Oman about calling for more votes on me when he clearly just wants a wagon. I just don't like that style myself.

I don't want you to back off, I wanted you to explain because you confused me by repeating everything I said before the vote. I didn't vote Hero for not providing an explanation, why would I do it to you?

Like I said, I didn't vote for someone just because they confuse me. I was waiting to hear your explanation. Now that you have explained, I'm ready to form my opinion.

- You accused me of being on the fence and not contributing because I refused to prematurely accuse ayone of being scummy. Yet, you were already voting for me before I turned down both your questions, so that explanation clearly doesn't stand. And prior to that I was hardly the only person who wasn't attacking someone.

- You cited post 42 as a valid reason to vote for me, but did not elaborate at the time. When I questioned your presentation of that post, the only point you really addressed was the point that "You parroted too!" So? It doesn't explain why you

did the exact same thing

and then went on to call me scummy. Hypocritical action #1.

- You cited post 44 as a valid reason to vote for me because I was willing to wait for Hero's explanation rather than pressuring him, yet you, who asked him the same questions, didn't do what you clearly consider what a town player would do (pressure him yourself). Hypocritical action #2, that's another scummy point checked.

So thank you, i'm ready to "contribute", as you put it, now, because you've posted enough for me to form an opinion of you. I'll probably attract more votes for what some people will consider to be an OMGUS action, but now that I finally have a proper case, I'm going to take it.

Vote: Claus

[PsychoSniper]

As far as a mass nameclaim is concerned, though I think it will be useful at some point, I see no possible benefit from doing it before at least day 2. People have already covered essentially everything I would say about that.

When the haunt happens, we may get a character name, or a player name. If we do, it's unlikely we'll be able to simply lynch the traitor, but matching their character name and player name could help. But we'll be able to do that by process of elimination after the haunt is announced. I didn't realize at first that the number of players was exactly equal to the number of characters in the board game. But it is, so it's probably safe to assume that the names Kast posted are the names we all have.

Umm.....so going by this post you didn't want a nameclaim now, but that it may be beneficial later? I'm not disputing this theory or supporting it at the moment, but I'm questioning why you see fit to raise this discussion on the very first Day. I don't see why this couldn't have waited till the point when you really wanted a claim. Do you have an answer for that?

[PsychoSniper]

Apparently, my last vote wasn't registered, probably because i forgot to unvote. To do this properly:

unvote, Vote: Claus

@Sniper: I hope you aren't expecting some "Due to that topic, the obvscum are ____." I asked when I did for 3 reasons:
1. Someone might have come up with a good reason for us to reveal names right away. I wasn't certain how I felt at first.
2. Considering it could be more effective than a random wagon at creating groupings.
3. In some other games (both Polygamist Mafia games) people started revealing how they were paired before a consensus was reached on whether it was a good idea. So I wanted people to not start doing so until we decided whether it was advantageous.

Nah, I'm not expecting you to provide obvscum list, just your motive behind raising the issue this early. As to your reasons.....first, I would think that if anyone thought they might have a good reason for immediate reveal, they would have brought it up anyway, with or without your question. Your third reason is also a little curious (IMO), because if anything, I think drawing attention to the issue might be more likely to

prompt

an early claim like the one you mention. Some people might consider that pairing mechanism you described to be a good reason for claim, and as a result bring it up prematurely.

At any rate, no damage of this nature has been done, but I'm a little wary of your bringing up the nameclaim issue early.

@banana 563: why do you need others to tell you whether to vote? It's something you need to form your own opinion about. Sounds to me like you're wantig something to share the responsibility when/if you finally vote.....

[PsychoSniper]

@banana 563: why do you need others to tell you whether to vote? It's something you need to form your own opinion about. Sounds to me like you're wanting

something

to share the responsibility when/if you finally vote.....

EBWOP: I meant

someone

[PsychoSniper]

Sorry, I was planning onposting today, but my own game just started, and I grossly underestimated the amount of I need to get it started. As a result, I'm running out of net access time now.

Will post tomorrow, ASAP.

[PsychoSniper]

Yay! OMGUS from PS! Let me tear it down.

Did I accuse you of being scummy because you parroted me? I didn't. (...) but apparently, according what you posted above, you

do

consider it scummy, so why are you doing it yourself?

Neither did I. I accused you of being scummy for completely different reasons -- reasons which I did spell out in the post. I do however, find it scummy when you attack me (call my post parroting) for something that you just admitted doing. Double standards and all that jazz

Again, 1) you were voting me

before

I made that accusation, and 2) you posting the same content is only suspicious to me because you followed up with a vote on the same person you seemed to have agreed with.

The way you raise up events

after

your vote already occured to justofy your vote convinces me that you're just digging for excuses to make your vote look like it's anything other than a convenient wagon vote. Which is exactly what it is.

Also, the way you overreact to an accusation that I did not make is scummy. I caught scum once on this tell

How is asking your reason for voting me "overreacting"? Voting without explanation is more scummy, which was what you did.

Except that, when he said "I'll say it later", you just said "ah, ok". Weak.

And again, that's wrong because....?

Because scum wants to find easy cases. They make weak attacks and see if other people will follow with them. Then back down of those attacks that don't work out immediately. This is called "Staying on the wall".

There's a huge different between "backing down" and "waiting for answer", something which you appeared content to do yourself when it concerned Herodotus (the same person I was questioning). Like I said, that's just hypocritical.

- There are lurkers/inactive guys that have yet to voice their opinion on his question. If Hero's answer was an excuse not to answer, getting everyone to speak up takes away that excuse.

Funny that you base your entire strategy on a post by someone else. So if someone makes a "bad" answer to his question, or doesn't answer - and you end up lynching them -- hey! It wasn't your question to begin with, it was Herotodus!

You are some clever scum.

Carry on your imaginative conjecture. They're amusing to read.

why would you expect me to vote on Hero for not answering my questions, when you're not doing it yourself?

That one is easy - You're not even trying. Answer: Because I'm voting you, who I find much scummier.

No,

you're

not trying. You did not even bother to

ask

Herodotus and demand for answers that he hadn't answered, vote or no vote. You didn't express the least bit of interest beyond your initial questions at him. You were not really interested in getting the information, since by your accuont you would have pressured him and voted him in if you were in my place. But you weren't interested, because you'd already found a more convenient target to wagon: me, because I had enough votes on me.

Your entire "justification" for voting me is non-existent to begin with. As already pointed out above, your accusation about my "double standard" happened after your vote, so it

wasn't

a reason for your vote. Your only other justification is that I don't play like you and prematurely accuse random people of being scum and refusing to vote just because I was asked to wait for a simple answer. Your entire "case" on me is aimed at my playstyle which is different from yours, and that is one of the weakest reasons to want to lynch someone. Like I said, not everyone plays like you and Oman, to expect otherwise is either stupid.....

.....or the fact the you don't really expect me to, but is using it as a weak justification for your opportunistic wagon vote. I suspect the latter.

Really? I see more, but then again, I'm town and I'm trying to look for scum. You are just trying to find a convenient excuse to attack someone. Let me fix that. You are just trying to save your ass, because I'm not going to let go off you so easily.

What more? It seems like you're not willing to share them with the town, then, cos, I've not seen you mention any of them prior to your question, either. You seem more interested in harping on me, the convenient target with 2 votes.

How about we play a game? You tell me (us) who else you find scummy in this thread. Pretend you're looking for "my partners". I know it will be hard to you to talk about the other players, because you'll have to be careful not to out your partners, but the town would appreciate the effort.

The only other player I'm finding suspicious at this point is banana. I'm somewhat dubious about Hero's reasons for bringing up early claims despite not really wanting it, but not enough for me to attach a scum tag. I don't pass out scum tags as if they were dog tags, unlike you.

[PsychoSniper]

Psychosniper ignoring the wagon on him was a worrying issue. If he is town, I expect one scum on his wagon already.


No more for now.

How do you really expect me to respond to a wagon like that? Claus is the only one who's even pretending that he's making a case, and I'm responding to him. Ash admitted that his vote was random and hadn't stated otherwise since. That leaves you. Are you going to come up with a case against me, or are you just going to wait for someone else to do it for you?

I'd like to point out that so far you've barely posted more content than the 3 inactive players, btw.

As your your 2nd sentence, there already is a scum on my wagon, and his name is Claus. there may be more, but I can't tell yet at this point.


I'm running out of net time again. Back tomorrow.

[PsychoSniper]

The only other player I'm finding suspicious at this point is banana. I'm somewhat dubious about Hero's reasons for bringing up early claims despite not really wanting it, but not enough for me to attach a scum tag. I don't pass out scum tags as if they were dog tags, unlike you.

Is that your reason for being suspicious of me, or are you just about to get onto that part?

No, those were my points about also being slightly suspicious of Herodotus.

As for you, like I said, I think you looked like you were waiting for someone to provide you with a target so that your vote, when it finally takes place, can be blamed on another. I get the impression that you're more concerned about how you'll be seen by the others for your vote than whether you're actually voting for scum.

And other than the lurkers, for the longest time you seem to be the only one without an apparent aim in mind about how you want to scumhunt, and you didn't seem to particularly care about finding one.

[PsychoSniper]

......so banana now has 4 votes. I know I've stated that I'm suspicious of him, but am I the only one who's bothered by the fact for the guy having the most votes right now, two of them were cast by lurkers who's hardly said anything since the beginning?

[PsychoSniper]

......so banana now has 4 votes. I know I've stated that I'm suspicious of him, but am I the only one who's bothered by the fact for the guy having the most votes right now, two of them were cast by lurkers who's hardly said anything since the beginning?

I don't know if you're the

only

one, but I'm not really bothered. I was happy to leave my random vote on you until something presented itself and I see that in 'nana. I think he's as good a lynch as we'll get today. Deadline is approaching. This game may need a replacement or 2.

It's not so much who's being voted that's worrying me than who's doing the voting. I get worried when half the votes on the person on the leading wagon are cast by lurkers. And one of them was a

pure

random vote from a guy who hadn't even said whom he suspects. That's a bad way for Day 1 to end, IMO.

And yes, the fact that the deadline is approaching makes it worse. Day one is less than one week away from ending and 1/4 of the players have hardly spoken. I really want to hear from the lurkers before deadline hits us.

[PsychoSniper]

Also, when is the deadline? I would be willing for a Skitzer or Grandi deadline wagon if people are not enamored by my ASH or PS votes.

I don't think I need to say any more about this. You're not scum-hunting, you're still going for the convenient targets whenever you can. When the town isn't following your lead on me, you drop hints that you'll happy with wagoning two guys who are not even around to defend themselves.

I'm more than happy with where my vote is.

[PsychoSniper]

I'm actually with claus here. Its a simple fact that we're not going to get much more out of PS. I like his idea for a new wagon.

I haven't noticed anything really scummy myself

, but who knows eh?

Unvote Vote AshMC

I understand that you think bandwagons are a good strategy, but is there any specific reason you keep following Claus' lead? Especially when you said you hadn't seen anything suspicion on that person yourself? He's hardly the only one with a vote on him. And two votes isn't that much of a wagon anyway. Why AshMC, of all people?

Mod, my internet access will be limited for the next few days, and I may not be able to again until Saturday.

[PsychoSniper]

PS is jealous that me and Oman have such a beautiful relationship <3

<3

I chose Claus because we had a very (for me) early game together. And I happened to bond to the awesome guy very closely (plus hje looks cool in glasses, and is in Japan, and plays DnD).

Also.


I chose it because getting on a going wagon is easier than starting your own. It allows you to get another vote and to form momentum without having to work hard hjustifying yourself.

Its not scummy, its energy efficient.

I didn't call wagoning scummy, I only thought it suspicious because you keep following the same person. Like I said, Ash wasn't the only wagon available. In fact, he was one of the weaker ones. I can accept your reason for wanting a wagon, but your reason for just plain following Claus is weak.

This may look a bit too blatant for a scum relation.....but maybe that's exactly what you want us to think.

[PsychoSniper]

By the way, stop talking about me and address the most pressing question: Are you for or against the banana wagon?

Stop talking about you? Why would I want to be distracted from my biggest scum suspect?

- I want you dead most
- I'm willing to settle for a banana lynch if the only alternative is no-lynch.
- I'm also willing to settle for an Oman lynch if the only alternative is no-lynch, just from his blatant in-game connection to you.

[PsychoSniper]

And I've figured something out that was so painstakingly obvious that I have hit myself with a large stick: Oman must follow Claus's vote. It's part of his role. That's what I'm believing unless Oman can prove me otherwise.

Interesting theory, but no, because Oman unvoted me before Claus did, so he didn't

have

to follow Claus.

[PsychoSniper]

Skitzer about my PS vote.

It's well reasoned-but weren't there other people who thought the same about the name claim? I believe that's what your case is about.

That's the initial reason for my vote - and not even what he thought about the nameclaim, but HOW he thought and said it (on the wall). But after that, the way PS panicked when I started to put pressure, his big OMGUS,

his "warning on the banana wagon", without actually saying "that wagon is bad and should be stopped

" - all this made me feel that PS is quite scummy.

Huh, this from the person who accused me of twisting words. Stop twisting

my

posts. I didn't think a wagon on banana is bad, I was calling attention to the fact that bandwagon consists of votes from lurkers and pure random votes. It was a reminder that these lurkers were worth looking at. It would have been anti-town to

not

call that to attention.

And I would say a flip-flop vote from you is a far better indication of someone "panicking" because his attempts to mislead the town hadn't been working.

It doesn't matter if I'm right if no one is following me. But since you and Kast seem friendly to my PS case, I will just go back to it.

We will HAVE to work together to ensure a lynch. In that regard I am willing to vote for PS next.

Hey, I'm cool with that. I will leave my vote on PS, but I promise to switch it to your slicey wagon if it is bigger than my wagon 1 day before the deadline. Can you promise the same thing?

unvote: Vote PS

Nice backpedaling here. Flip-flopping vote is outright scummy.

[PsychoSniper]

I'll move to Room 3 on the top floor (left of the room where I already am).

Need to do a complete reread now.....

[PsychoSniper]

banana continues to say things that leave me scratching my head and wonder why the hell would a townie say these things. Hence him being my second biggest suspect yesterday.

But now I'm actually taking him off my scum list. After the way Ash blatantly hpped on his wagon and pushed him closer to lynch at L-2 yesterday, I just don't think they can possibly scumbuddies.

And I'm no longer sure about Oman, since Claus, the person he was following and clearly trying to avoid lynching till the last minute, flipped town.

Right now, I'm inclined to think that the deadline yesterday was a good opportunity for scum to jump on the Claus wagon on the last day. There were a good number of lynchers who hopped on claiming that they didn't think Claus was a good lynch but they voted to avoid a no lynch. The deadline essentially made those null-tells, but I'm inclined to think there's likely to be at least one scum among those people. It's too good a chance to miss for scum to secure a town lynch without taking responsibility for it.

Looking at those who hopped on after Claus' wagon became the majority: Herodotus, qwint, Namttam & Kmd. qwint has since flipped town.

Herodotus, to be fair, didn't claim that to have voted Claus just purely to avoid no lynch, but his nameclaim suggestion in the beginning still bothers me. Plus, his vote was indeed the real pivoting point towards the Claus lynch, besides Ash, who's already flipped scum.

I think I'll have to look at the 3 mentioned above more thoroughly, especially Herodotus.

[PsychoSniper]

But now I'm actually taking him off my scum list. After the way Ash blatantly hpped on his wagon and pushed him closer to lynch at L-2 yesterday, I just don't think they can possibly scumbuddies.

You don't think he'd (Ash) bus his buddy when he (banana) was taking heat to look more protown with a buddy possibly going down anyway?

Not impossible, but the town was split enough that banana wasn't really the confirmed guy to go down. And with Ash also bringing up the deadline as a sort of excuse within that same post, it sounded to me like he was preparing for the scenario for banana to flip town upon his lynch. ("oh well, deadline approaching and he looks like the best lynch we'll get, etc") Ash hadn't listed any other player he's plarticularly inclied to vote for prior to that. The only one he voted for was me and it was claimed to random. The way I see it, there was no need for him to bring up the deadline to justify the vote when there was no one else he claimed to really want to vote for. Unless he knows the person he's lynching is in fact town.

And I'm no longer sure about Oman, since Claus, the person he was following and clearly trying to avoid lynching till the last minute, flipped town.

Scum buddying with town is more common than scum buddying with scum.

Again, not impossible. I'm not really listing Oman as town yet, just that I'm no longer as sure as yesterday. I don't think scum would have taken the trouble to point out the lynch didn't have to be Claus when everyone was moving their votes to him. I said I'm no longer sure (as compared to when I was quite ready to lynch him yesterday), because what I saw to be the most compelling reason to suspect him is gone.

Oman's behaviour for the most part now reads neutral to me. What he's done was mainly wagoning, which is as common a townish behavior as it is scummy.

Looking at those who hopped on after Claus' wagon became the majority: Herodotus, qwint, Namttam & Kmd. qwint has since flipped town.

Something wrong with wanting a lynch over a no lynch?

I did say the deadline made it a null-tell. This is more on my gut than anything, but I think the opportunity to wagon someone to death without looking scummy (because everyone else is doing it) would be too attractive to miss for scum players, which is why I suspect there's a good chance of 1 scum being mixed in the crowd. That's not enough for me to cast a vote yet, but I think they're worth paying closer attention to.

[PsychoSniper]

@Oman: Why did you want to bring up both your night action and the fact that you had an item? While I can't see any direct detriments to that as yet, I don't see any good in it, either. You brought that up when you were questioned about your motives of following Namttam and stealing an item, but I don't see how your temp-power claim really tied in with that question.

You made what was pretty much an unprompted claim of your night power and action, which doesn't hold much helpful info for the town (since your power is now gone and your target has already died and flipped scum). What was your motive behind revealing the info that you didn't need to?

[PsychoSniper]

@Sniper -- Do you think it would be both possible, and a good idea, to try to avoid the haunt entirely?

I'm curious why you chose me of all people to answer a question concerning the game mechanisms. So far, I've been playing on the assumption that it will definitely happen, if only because it seems to be the major feature in the board game, from what little I've read. I don't have a clue as to whether it's possible.

I don't suppose this is a question the mod can answer without spoiling the game?

If

it's possible, then I don't see why not (as in avoiding it), it'll be probably make things easier for town in the sense that they no longer have to worry about someone who's already been cleared as town to flip later.

[PsychoSniper]

Mod, a couple of questions:

1) Are ALL items found in the Day revealed to all, or is it possible for some of them to remain secret?

2) Is it possible for players to

start

the game with items (as in before they started picking their rooms on Day 1)?

[PsychoSniper]

I'm curious why you chose me of all people to answer a question concerning the game mechanisms. So far, I've been playing on the assumption that it will definitely happen, if only because it seems to be the major feature in the board game, from what little I've read. I don't have a clue as to whether it's possible.

It's not about the mechanics of the board game; I'm sure the mod has adapted the rules enough that it's a mafia issue. I asked you in order to hear more from you. While you looked townish to me on day 1, Ash's random vote was placed and left on you in a distancing style. He made a big deal of pointing out that he was voting for you, but also that it was random, meaning he could remove it at any time for no reason. That's not generally enough to make you a major suspect, but until I have time to reread you, it's enough to make me want to ask you questions. In this case, while the question appears to be about game mechanics, it's quite possible that the scum will have different motivations from townies regarding the haunt.

Well, in that case, what are your thoughts about avoiding the haunt (favourable or not)?

Hero, how does Slicey's item make him town?

@KMD -- Slicey could have played his candle differently, for instance moving into the garden today, which possibly would have made Skitzer wait until tomorrow to move. Do you consider his night 1 action in his favor?

I think it was the obvious move and he had to do it to avoid appearing suspicious as hell.

It doesn't make him town. I was just hoping that his decision of what to do with his item would give us insight into his alignment. Otherwise, it's a waste of information.

I don't know, considering he's more or less publicly announced what he'd do with his item the previous Day, I can't see why any player would have done anything else, town or scum.

[PsychoSniper]

@Skitzer:
What do you think of Slicey?
Why have you not posted in this game for over a week, despite being active in other games and threads?

On that note, Slicey doesn't seem to have requested replacements in his other games, even though he's too busy for this one.....

[PsychoSniper]

I can no longer use the item making it A) pointless to kill me because of it and B) untracable later. By referencing it, if I died, the town could look back and get a little bit of information applying that trace. Also, not having a power is making me feel vulnerable here, I feel out of place, I feel lost.

This does not jive. What do you mean by trace? What information have you provided the town that would be useful? Scum would not have had a reason to target you if you hadn't mentioned the item in the first place.

I think I can sort of understand the "town getting more info by looking back after his death" part, although I'm dubious about how much this bit of info really helps the town. But I don't think the part about "pointless to kill me because I have no item" part makes sense, either. Like Namttam says, scum has no reason to believe you had an item the first place. And wanting to avoid getting killed because you don't have an item.....doesn't that mean you are narrowing down targets for the scum if they really are hunting for guys with items? That's anti-town.

[PsychoSniper]

That is a tiny bit suspicious Kmd... is this because you and Slicey were scumbuddies and you know for sure that he is on your team? Hmmm...

I don't see how that's suspicious. A modkill leading to a pre-mature Day end with minimum discussion is generally bad for town. I think being willing to help getting a replacement is a complete null tell.

On the other hand, showing willingness to let a modkill go ahead and end the Day early, IMO, is more likely to be a scum-tell.

[PsychoSniper]

After that I'd be fine with a PS lynch due to early D1 posts and potential protection/support from Ash.

Just a note, Ash didn't so much protect/support me than respond to Claus' attack on himself. He was quite content to leave his vote on me until Claus switched his vote to him. If anything, you can make a better case out of Slicey "protecting me" than Ash did.

[PsychoSniper]

Wait...

AH! You are a clever one Hero, but I'm on to you now!

You're the one saying those three letters in that post, you mentioned it numerous times, and you thought people would believe it was me who was the psycho killer! If it turned out that I wasn't, which it would, you could just say you must have been mistaken! Haha! I have you now! I'm so clever!

Vote: Herodotus

He isn't spamming over 90% of his posts with laughing-related words/emoticons like you are, though. And you've only started doing it since right before the haunt started.

I really believe Herodotus is on to something here.

As to whether the traitor should be lynched now:

In the case of a confirmed SK being outed, I would say keep him alive for the time being so we can make full use of the deadline to hunt for other scum (leaving him as a last resort for a deadline lynch if we can't find any other good choices). The problem is banana's status is by no means confirmed yet, although I personally believe he is.

Another thing I'm worried about is Hero's conjecture about banana getting more powerful with more laughing references posted. If he were right about this part, then banana might be too dangerous to be kept alive.

First, I guess we have to test if the laughing references is actually a post restriction. If banana can't "contain his laughter" for the rest of the Day from this point onwards, then I'd vote him to be the lynch.

[PsychoSniper]

First, I guess we have to test if the laughing references is actually a post restriction. If banana can't "contain his laughter" for the rest of the Day from this point onwards, then I'd vote him to be the lynch.

It's definitely not an absolute 100% mandatory restriction; post 408 doesn't have laughter.

I was thinking more along the lines of needing to fulfil a certain quota of laughing references per Day, not every post.

Upon reflection, I'm concerned about what he could do over time as well. If he is a cult recruiter, then lynching him sooner is much better than waiting.

vote banana

Well, the deadline concern isn't quite as pressing now, as the mod told us. I'm not quite ready to lynch banana over this theory other then, as I stated earlier, as a last resort. The fact remains that he was pretty much the most confirmed townie alive prior to the haunt. At this point I also don't think the Day should end until Slicey's replacement gets the chance to speak about the mini-wagon on him, so withholding my vote for now...

[PsychoSniper]

Psychosniper: he was talking about the haunt before it occured, but now that it has, he hasn't mentioned it much at all.

I talked about the haunt because I was specifically asked to comment on it. And since our discussion had been speculation about whether it's possible to avoid the haunt, that became immaterial once the haunt happened, so I saw no point in continuing with it. Until now, that is, when Hero seems to think he may have caught the traitor.

[PsychoSniper]

First, I guess we have to test if the laughing references is actually a post restriction. If banana can't "contain his laughter" for the rest of the Day from this point onwards, then I'd vote him to be the lynch.

It's definitely not an absolute 100% mandatory restriction; post 408 doesn't have laughter.

I was thinking more along the lines of needing to fulfil a certain quota of laughing references per Day, not every post.

Upon reflection, I'm concerned about what he could do over time as well. If he is a cult recruiter, then lynching him sooner is much better than waiting.

vote banana

Well, the deadline concern isn't quite as pressing now, as the mod told us. I'm not quite ready to lynch banana over this theory other then, as I stated earlier, as a last resort. The fact remains that he was pretty much the most confirmed townie alive prior to the haunt. At this point I also don't think the Day should end until Slicey's replacement gets the chance to speak about the mini-wagon on him, so withholding my vote for now...

Just to add on to this, another reason it might be plausible to keep banana alive for at least another Day is to see if his behaviour tomorrow are still consistent with that of today. He might very well have fulfilled any "laughing quota" he needs to for today. We need to see more from him to determine whether his laughter is really in anyway role-related.

[PsychoSniper]

Psychosniper: he was talking about the haunt before it occured, but now that it has, he hasn't mentioned it much at all.

I talked about the haunt because I was specifically asked to comment on it. And since our discussion had been speculation about whether it's possible to avoid the haunt, that became immaterial once the haunt happened, so I saw no point in continuing with it. Until now, that is, when Hero seems to think he may have caught the traitor.

Who asked you?

.....if you actually read my posts talking about the haunt, then surely you would also have seen me QUOTING in those same posts the parts where Herodotus asked me to comment? At this point I'm questioning how much attention you're paying.

The question is in post 366, if you can't find it.

[PsychoSniper]

Ok, So I have NO explanation for Slicey's play. you have every right to be suspicious of him/me. But i promise I'm not a bad guy, so please to don't kill me.

......even if you can't explain your predecessor's action, the least you could have done is to tell us whom

you

suspect, and why. At least, I believe that's what someone who's town would do. That way, even if he does end up getting lynched, rest of the town may have something useful to think/discuss about after that. You don't look like you're even trying.

I didn't like it when Slicey asked to be replaced but apparently had enough time to remain in other games. The last time I was in a game and something like this happened (guy asked to be replaced for personal reason when he was the main suspect, then appeared in other games), the guy was lynched and turned up scum.

I was waiting to see what the replacement has to say, but this.......seriously,

nothing

?

Like I said, if you can't explain Slicey's action, then at least tell us who you think are scum (or town).

I'm quite tempted to add my vote to you now. I might already have done so if you aren't already at L-2 right now.

[PsychoSniper]

I didn't like it when Slicey asked to be replaced but apparently had enough time to remain in other games. The last time I was in a game and something like this happened (guy asked to be replaced for personal reason when he was the main suspect, then appeared in other games), the guy was lynched and turned up scum.

Link please.

This is the game I was referring to.

viewtopic.php?t=11199&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0

The player in question was kirroha (he got lynched on Day 1, page 10).

[PsychoSniper]

I wasn't going to claim at first, but then I did because

A. Oman didn't
B. I'd realised that the haunt was likely to start sometime soon so I might as well have done that as it pretty much confirmed me town.
C. I felt like it.

Okay, most of these don't make sense to me, because:

A) Claiming would have been sensible if Oman

did

try to claim vig, because then you would have exposed a liar. Saying that you calimed because someone else didn't.....I don''t see the point in that.

B) Again, this makes no sense. Without the haunt, it

might

have been useful to get someone confirmed town to eliminate suspects. In the case of the haunt, any pro-town confirmation prior to that is worthless, since the confirmed person can easily turn traitor.

C) No comments.

Your first two "reasons" seem totally self-contradictory.

[PsychoSniper]

I don't think he gives sufficient reason for his vote. it's too simple. I am the perfect wagon for scum to push because there is a discrepancy between what Slicey said and what I am saying. I understand why someone MIGHT vote for me, but I've given numerous reasons why someone shouldn't and all kast did was agree with the discrepancy and vote.

its too easy.

Discrepancy between two players playing the same role

is

a good reason to suspect someone, I think Kast is quite justified in switching his vote. On your part, I don't think you given sufficient reason why we shouldn't vote you. You've acknowledged that your predecessor was acting scummy. The only reasons you've given for us not to vote you is that Kast and banana are better candidates. I don't agree about Kast. banana I'm suspicious of, but he's still not a better lynch candidate than you.

Regarding his undisputed vig claim, your suspicion was that he either lied about it or was really an SK. In the former case, like someone already mentioned, the real vig would know him for a liar, so there's no reason to waste a lynch on him. In the latter case, considering the haunt just started, how likely do you think that there's going to be 3 scum groups in a Mini (mafia, SK, traitor)? Not a good chance, IMO.

Right now, I'd like to hear skitzer's version of what happened between him and Slicey last night. Maybe this will give us more clues regarding the accuracy of Slicey's account. I also don't like the fact that he (skitzer) is still the lurkiest of the remaining players.

[PsychoSniper]

I wasn't going to claim at first, but then I did because

A. Oman didn't
B. I'd realised that the haunt was likely to start sometime soon so I might as well have done that as it pretty much confirmed me town.
C. I felt like it.

Okay, most of these don't make sense to me, because:

A) Claiming would have been sensible if Oman

did

try to claim vig, because then you would have exposed a liar. Saying that you calimed because someone else didn't.....I don''t see the point in that.

B) Again, this makes no sense. Without the haunt, it

might

have been useful to get someone confirmed town to eliminate suspects. In the case of the haunt, any pro-town confirmation prior to that is worthless, since the confirmed person can easily turn traitor.

C) No comments.

Your first two "reasons" seem totally self-contradictory.

so have you considered voting him?

See my last post regarding him not being as good a lynch choice as you.

[PsychoSniper]

It's either Oman or Kast. It's gotta be.

On day one, only 5 players were not voting for Claus, one of them being me, one being Oman and another being Kast. Whoever was Ash's partner would not want to be voting for the same person as their buddy, so it was one of those 5 people. Claus and Skitzer are dead, I know I'm not the mafia, and that leaves Oman and Kast. Funnily enough, they were both voting for Zoneace when he was lynched, so I suspect it's just the one of them.

Vote: Kast

Completely at random.

Also, when can we move rooms?

Interesting, I had the exact opposite idea (which I already brought up the previous Day), that there's probably at least 1 scum among those that hopped on the convenient Claus wagon, so I'm more leaning towards Hero or Kmd.

But even going with your theory, why go with completely random? I hope you realise that we're very likely to be at LyLo today, so random is the last thing we want.

Judging by their behaviours the past days, Oman is a lot more suspicious than Kast is, such as his unprompted claim and him being quite lurkish towards the end of the Day. Strange that you should random pick Kast instead of judging by their behaviours, especially given the dangers today.

[PsychoSniper]

Pick Up Book

Its just me and the book in the room, I don't see a problem with me picking it up.

But I'm sure you guys will find something.

Sure, the problem would be that a guy who just happens to be in the same room as you and happens to have an item should be NKed last night, so that you conveniently get to pick it up without having to move.

Nattam did question why you were following him, didn't he?

[PsychoSniper]

Okay, I just looked back and realise that Kast seems to be trying to hoard multiple items at once (he already has a coin and is trying to steal from Hero). I was getting town vibes from Kast, but I don't feel comfortable about any individual who's trying to hoard excess power.

Damn, at this point the only guy I'm sure I don't want to vote (other than me, of course) is banana. Until his Ash-kill is counterclaimed, he almost certified to not be mafia. Even if he

is

the traitor, we

don't

want to touch the traitor today.

The usual ratio of mafia in a Mini game being 3 out of 12, there's a good chance that there's 2 Mafia left. Which means only half of us are actually town (3 town, 2 mafia, 1 traitor). There's a slight chance that we got lucky, and one of the mafia turned traitor, it's not something I'd want to count on.

Meaning, if we lynch traitor today, town is dead (after another NK). At this stage even a town lynch would be prefereble to a traitor lynch, since traitor has a good chance of hitting mafia at night.

[PsychoSniper]

I also don't trust Herodotus, so I don't mind stopping his motion.

Based on his apparent lack of care at having his move stopped, and flavor from Betrayal board game in which the Traitor usually doesn't need to explore the house, I am guessing he is probably the Traitor.

In that case, do you not agree with my theory that we can't afford to lynch the traitor today? Lynching the traitor with 6 of us left and probably 2 mafia among us will doom the town. Do you still think he should be the lynch?

Mod, I'm staying put in my room, not moving.

[PsychoSniper]

Psycho: I killed Namttam last night with my mafia buddies just so that I could pick up that book instead of stealing it they were all "Why don't we kill a power role or someone who is on to us" and I was all "Guys...Book? Right, I don't think there is a real decision here. I mean, Book!?!"

And how would you know that a book doesn't indicate a PR? Any item may potentially do. And Namttam

was

one of those who was "on to" you yesterday.

[PsychoSniper]

And Kast, regarding your hoarding theory, I can follow the logic, but if assuming that items provide clues/information, having all the info hoarded by one person means that the rest of the town would have to put all their trust in that one person providing the info when needed. It's just not something I'm comfortable about.

[PsychoSniper]

But even going with your theory, why go with completely random? I hope you realise that we're very likely to be at LyLo today, so random is the last thing we want.

Well he tried to have 2 items at onece and I was suspicious that he was attempting to get hold of excess power.

.....this sounds so much like backpedaling, since you quite clearly stated that it was "completely random" and not based on any suspicion of Kast's behaviour.

[PsychoSniper]

Herodotus -Saw him as scummy early. Seemed to answer well. Doesn't clear him though as scum can answer well too. Possible scum.
Oman - Didn't like the buddying to Claus Day 1. Still like him as possible scum.
banana 563 - I'd say scum if he didn't kill Ash. But he did. Town.

PsychoSniper -Also scummy early, but I lean town now.

Kast -Obvtown.

So we have 2 scum and a traitor, correct? Traitor can be treated as town for today as we need them. We are just looking for one of two scum. Let's lynch either Hero or Oman.

If I had to guess on traitor, I'd say Psycho.

Wouldn't a traitor be acting townish earlier and scummy later instead? Since he actually turns scum on the second Day?

[PsychoSniper]

To me, banana is really fitting the profile of the traitor right now, the way he seems to be tossing his votes around carelessly. It gives me the impression that he dosn't particularly cares who's the lynch (even going so far as to "random" his first vote) as long as it's not him. The traitor is the only one who realy fits that profile.

Hero is another possiblity, as it's curious how the haunt started shortly after he brought it into the discussion (I suppose that makes me a suspect, too, since I joined that discussion, but I know I'm not).

[PsychoSniper]

Psycho: I killed Namttam last night with my mafia buddies just so that I could pick up that book instead of stealing it they were all "Why don't we kill a power role or someone who is on to us" and I was all "Guys...Book? Right, I don't think there is a real decision here. I mean, Book!?!"

And how would you know that a book doesn't indicate a PR? Any item may potentially do. And Namttam

was

one of those who was "on to" you yesterday.

Namttam stated that the PR was a one off thing, not related to any item he was carrying.

Namttam stated that his

Posting Restriction

wasn't related to any item, and that was before he picked up the book anyway. That has nothing to do with what I was talking about. When I said PR, I meant

Power Role

, which I thought should be obvious given I quoted your post.

You said "Why wouldn't I target a power role instead of killing Namttam for the book?" My response is "Because you think the book may give its holder power". No one knew what the book does besides Namttam, so how would you know Namttam

wasn't

a power role thanks to the book? He had an item, so he's more likely to be a PR than anyone else besides Kast, so scum has every motive to kill Namttam for the book, and the fact that you were right there in the same room to pick it up isn't without suspicions.

[PsychoSniper]

Oman: I have it noted you picked the book up you can move if you wish. You and Kmd the only people who have not moved. Once everyone moves I will send out info

@Kmd: are you planning to move, or what? You're the only one left.

[PsychoSniper]

FOS: PsychoSniper

. He called me a traitor!

You've been suspected for being traitor since Day 2 by no less than 3 people and now all of a sudden you decide to come up with a OMGUS response like this? And strangely, today you've more or less voted/FOSed everyone

except

the first person who suspected you of being traitor (Herodotus). WTH is up with that?

And really, I have to agree with what Kast said to you in this instance. You just don't seem to be taking your votes seriously enough, the way you seem to just move it randomly around on whim. Even if you

are

town, you've already taken away the credibility of your votes by your action.

[PsychoSniper]

Also, what is everyone's opinion on massclaiming items/actions taken?

If it comes down to a vote, I'd vote against it.

[PsychoSniper]

First -- my last post wasn't intended to be personal. I'm sorry if it offended.

Second -- I don't have time to reread right now, but if I recall correctly, Oman is the only one who hasn't denied (explicitly or implicitly) being the traitor. Given that the traitor at this point probably has no need to hide, despite understandably being hesitant to claim, I think Oman probably is the traitor. Oman, is that correct? And if it is, were you mafia at the beginning, or town?

Even if Oman

is

the traitor, do you really expect him to admit it?

[PsychoSniper]

I know thoe latter three are going to get offended and be cross with me but that's just my opinion.

You seem more offended than I am. The only reason you've brough up about suspecting me is because I suspect you of being traitor. I'm questioning who's the one that's getting emotional here. You didn't even try to hide the fact that it was a pure OMGUS action, by your previous post.

[PsychoSniper]

I suspect Oman and Kmd of being scum. Kast reads town to me. Herodotus I'm reading as neutral. I'm suspecting either him or banana of being traitor, like I mentioned earlier.

And since traitor is the one role we totally can't afford to lynch today, it's either Oman or Kmd for me.

Kmd has the votes now, so it'll probably be him.

But just so Oman doesn't accuse me of ending the Day before he has a chance to speak (since he said he was going to post about me), I'll hold my vote till Friday. I won't be around for this weekend, so that's the latest I can wait.

[PsychoSniper]

And since traitor is the one role we totally can't afford to lynch today,

Not necessarily true. This is only true if the Traitor was not a member of the mafia. Unless this is an admission that you are mafia, I don't see how you can know that.

You're right, i don't know for sure. Poor wording by me, but I do think the traitor is one we can

least

afford to lynch. I already said that Mafia turning traitor is

not

something I want to count on. It's a chance of 2 scum out of 9. I don't like the odds.

[/quote]
Why do you believe that Herodotus is the Traitor?

[/quote]

Like I said, the haunt began shortly after he started a discussion about it.

When he voiced his suspicion about banana being traitor, he pointed at banana's series of laughing references.....the first of which took place before the haunt was announced. This indicates that he believes banana was informed about himself turning traitor before it got announced, or possibly that banana did the first laugh to

trigger

the haunt.

Why did he believe that it's possible for traitor to intentionally trigger the haunt himself? Maybe because he

knows

for a fact that he does? Maybe his first question about the haunt was to trigger it? I think it's a possibility.

No one else besides him had attempted to go indepth with the traitor theory, so he's a suspect to me.

[PsychoSniper]

I will vote to ensure a lynch, if that makes any difference.

We can't really afford a no-lynch at this point if I'm counting right.

I'm likely to go higher on KMD than Hero at this stage, but thats not confirmed, I'm not really happy with either of them, especially not with Psychosniper still on the sidelines.

When are you planning to post that content you promised?

[PsychoSniper]

Uhh, I'll tell you right now, that with the amount of suspicion on me, not voting for my partner at this point would be pointless. He's likely to be lynched with or without me (with deadline at least), and then I'm tied to him, it just doesn't make sense.

It doesn't hurt to wait, since I've already stated when I'll cast my vote. Besides, I don't want you to get away with an excuse for not delivering whatever "content" you promised when the Day ends quick. Deadline lynch on Kmd is fine by me.

[PsychoSniper]

Hero and Oman are obvscumbuddies. Just sayin'.

How so? The last time you mentioned that, it was when Oman was refusing to vote Hero. But he's doing the same for you too, and the two of you have the same number of votes on you.....

[PsychoSniper]

EBWOP: Deadline is Aug 3rd so I should have time.

You are assuming everyone has the time to read/respond to your post if you were to post within the last day or 2. You do realise that the town can potentially lose the game on a wrong lynch at this stage? Delaying the post of your content that may influence the voting direction of town - especially since you already made it known that you don't like the current direction of the town's votes - is anti-town. It shows that you don't really care enough about the fact that the town isn't trying to lynch the person you suspect to be scum.

Anyway, like I said, I won't be around for the weekend. The mod said that in the event of ties, the first person who got the majority gets lynched. That would be Hero at the moment. Since I suspect Kmd more right now, I have to try and make sure it's him.....

Vote: Kmd

[PsychoSniper]

Power roles come from the rooms we get.

Oh, and with deadline coming up, I'll claim. N1, I got a one-shot doc protection that I was told could disappear. Some adrenaline shot or something. I could only use it on someone on my floor. I used that on Kast. N2, I recieved a RB in the form of rope. I forgot to use it.

I think it's rather convenient that you remembered to do the action that can't be proven (doc-protection is only proven if you know the scum targeted the same person), but forgot to do the one that's more easily proven.

[PsychoSniper]

@Gunsmith Monkey-
I'm doubting the existence of a gunsmith as a town "cop" power. In a game with possible affiliation changes, investigative roles are already weakened. With a confirmation that at least one player has found a revolver, an investigation that is set-up to give potential false positives such as a gunsmith is very unlikely. Oman may have fake claimed the toy monkey as a gunsmith with the knowledge that mafia kill method is shooting.

On that note, I looked back at the post where the mod announced that name of the character to find the Toy Monkey.

I'm thinking now, at the beginning of the game, most of us decided that role-claiming would be of little use due to all the characters having the potential to be evil roles. But right now, we have one confirmed scum in Ash, does anyone think it's plausible to look for relationships between the characters? Because it just occured to me that Flash Williams, the character who found the Monkey, and hence

probably

Oman's role, has a clear association with Ash's role, Mdn Zostra, according to the info Kast provided.

Yes, I can see that most of the characters are connected to each other in some ways, but Flash certainly appears to have the closest association to Zostra, from what I can see.

[PsychoSniper]

Power roles come from the rooms we get.

Oh, and with deadline coming up, I'll claim. N1, I got a one-shot doc protection that I was told could disappear. Some adrenaline shot or something. I could only use it on someone on my floor. I used that on Kast. N2, I recieved a RB in the form of rope. I forgot to use it.

I think it's rather convenient that you remembered to do the action that can't be proven (doc-protection is only proven if you know the scum targeted the same person), but forgot to do the one that's more easily proven.

BTW, just to add on to this, it also seems fishy that you were the one asking for item/action claims. Methinks it might have been a way to find out which of us has night actions so you can claim to have RBed someone without actions, making it impossible to verify.

[PsychoSniper]

Ok, looks like some really puzzling stuff happened when I wasn't around......

@banana: As usual, I can't make any sense out of your posts. How exactly does a revolver fit as a Gunsmith item? Most of the items and powers claimed so far are fairly straight forward (candles lights up room, adrenaline shots give life/protection from death, dynamites blow up, rope role-blocks/tie people up.....I think....). A Toy Monkey as a Gunsmith

is

plausible, I can't see how in the world a revolver can be a gunsmith object.

If I read Kast's post correctly, he was saying that the revolver's existence makes the Gunsmith item dubious, because if a town guy picks it up he'll show up as guilty/miller to the Gunsmith, so it won't be an effective cop item. Which is a valid concern. Oman's claim is suspicious not because there's another Gunsmith item, but the fact that a Gunsmith item is unlikely to be useful in this game.

As for you saying the revolver has to be either Gunsmith or 1-shot killing item.....again I don't know how you arrived at that. A revolver can be multi-shot. It won't be the same as the dynamite, so there's no clashes. If what you said about the mod telling you is true, the dynamite probably targets the ROOM (everyone in the same room as your target dies), while the revolver targets just the player, but can be used on separate Days. There's no clash between the two items, even if the revolver is multi-shot.

@Kmd: What's that time-bomb thing supposed to do? It wasn't in among your claimed items. Is that your own ability, or some other item that you've been hiding from us?


Oman: One day left and still nothing? I'm so glad the wagon's shifted to you.

Unvote, Vote: Oman

[PsychoSniper]

C) What else would a toy monkey do? I've never used it to implicate anyone, nor have I used it to defend myself, it would be OH SO FUCKING STUPID to lie about what my item did for no reason.

Okay, it's true that banana is making no sense about the revolver = Gunsmith idea, so I'm not arguing with the rest, but regarding THIS part that I'm quoting:

There are all too many things a Toy Monkey may be able to do, including being a killer. It's one of those items that isn't quite as straight forward as things like revolver.

Yes, you hadn't used it to implicate anyone, but like I said you made a totally pointless claim when you didn't have to. Nobody suspected you of having an item. It didn't matter that you no longer had it, there was still no point in claiming at the time.

It seemed to me that you gave away as a way of deliberately telling town that "Hey, I investigated a scum last night (one who conveniently is already dead), so I'm clearly town." A really suspicious case of trying to proclaim yourself town before major suspicion was even on you.

[PsychoSniper]

Unvote, Vote Oman

Banana killed scum.

Two gunsmith items in one game doesn't seem plausible.

I just vidged Hero unless he is the traitor. If we lynch Oman, we have one more of the three (2 scum, 1 traitor) to find unless the traitor was scum, in which case we'll win anyway.

Hold on, you

agree

with banana that a revolver is a Gunsmith item?

[PsychoSniper]

Also, I welcome someone stealing from me if its gonna alleviate banana's head here, all you will find is the book.

Alright, I take it up:

I am stealing an item from Oman.

Original Roll String: 3d3

3 3-Sided Dice: (2, 2, 1) = 5

[PsychoSniper]

Well, the evidence looks pretty damning on me, but I'm not scum. I expected Kmd to be the last scum, but after what banana just posted I have no idea what could have happened, except that he's probably lying and is the last scum.

Well, if Kmd is scum then I'm already dead, anyway, since I have two votes on me already.

For what's worth, my claim: I have performed no night actions at all throughout the whole game. The only item I've used is the armor I found, which protects me from NKs. I did find a bottle yesterday that's supposed to be a tracker device, but with the traitor dead yesterday I figured the more important thing to do is to prevent night kills.

The tracker bottle teleports me to the person I track, which means I don't get to use the armor (which is too heavy to carry) if I track someone. So I forego the tracking and stuck to my armor.

I don't think I can say anything that will prevent my lynch except to hope that Kmd isn't scum and has some info that can help me.

Kast is obviously telling the truth (we know the coin's power from Claus). Either Kmd is immune to investigation or banana is really a lying scum and Ash's death was simply an accident and not his doing.

I still think the gun = gunsmith thing is too weird for me to believe.

Vote:banana

[PsychoSniper]

Well, the armor is worthless at this point, so I might as well move.

I'd like to move to the Ballroom and get the book.

[PsychoSniper]

On second thoughts, the armor may not be worthless.....

I probably can't prevent my own lynch today, but there's a slight chance for the town:

After my death, two town and 1 scum left.

Hero's medical kit is "missing" according to the death scene, maybe someone else had it.

Whomever has it, if you are town and if you're not Kast, Kast is obvtown, so protect him.

Then whomever has the med kit, move to my room before scum does (you'd probably who he is after I'm dead), that's the Junk Room, and grab my armor for the protection.

There just

might

be a chance that town can last another night.