Mini 801- Kubrick Mafia (Over)

[AshMC1984]

This player list is quite foreign to me

^This.

Vote: Muzzz

[AshMC1984]

Vote: cateraction

For good measure?

[AshMC1984]

A little early to be spreading lies don't you think?

Do you

think

or

know

this? Why / how?

[AshMC1984]

A little early to be spreading lies don't you think?

Do you

think

or

know

this? Why / how?

Unless there is more than one Spartacus, he cannot be him.

I'm assuming that's a counter-claim?

[AshMC1984]

Following this statement, I expect at least one if not both of them to be able to say the same about me.

I confirm this.

The extra Spartacus's (Spartaci?) don't worry me - it's one of the few Kubrick films I haven't seen but the Ã

[AshMC1984]

I'm so curious what I gain by doing this.

I am Sparticus!

Shouldn't you know how to spell your own name?

FOS Cater

[AshMC1984]

unvote

[AshMC1984]

F the F - I am very surprised to hear that you meant Pads and not me in this statement:

From extra information via my role, I can say, with very good certainty indeed, that Ash and Blood are both town, for reasons which will probably be clear to them but not to the rest of the town. In the case of Ash, I am completely sure. Following this statement, I expect at least one if not both of them to be able to say the same about me.
The reasons for this will become clear in time. However, divulging them now would be anti-town.
Oh, and I really, really, really am Spartacus.

because there is something in there that 99% confirmed you for me. I thought it was a breadcrumb, but I guess it's possible that it was pure coincidence.

Question to all: Does anyone else see what I saw? If so and you can answer it correctly you will be confirmed in my mind. DO NOT COME OUT AND SAY IT. I want to save it for if someone claims to pick up the crumb - and later if pressed, can't produce the right answer, we will pretty much have confirmed scum.

So:

Who sees the perceived crumb (whether Fishy meant it or not)?

[AshMC1984]

Good point. It's a double-edged sword really.

[AshMC1984]

Pads - I'm curious, why the unprompted claim in the first place?

[AshMC1984]

'Not having much time to read and post' doesn't work for me when it was a single line claiming a role that he didn't claim in his first post after the claim, but then tried to claim later on the same page.

I can buy this. Seems as good a place to start as any right now.

Vote: lazarusmoth

[AshMC1984]

lazarous moth scum I can't see it. Is there some hidden text I missed?

However,

A little early to be spreading lies don't you think?

Do you

think

or

know

this? Why / how?

Unless there is more than one Spartacus, he cannot be him.

I'm assuming that's a counter-claim?

Fishing...

I expected him to be CC'ing, but wanted him to come out and say it. I had the name Spartacus. 1 person having the same name as me is one thing, 2 people having it is another thing entirely, and gave me cause to suspect that most if not all other players were also 'Spartacus'.

Pads - I'm curious, why the unprompted claim in the first place?

Fail.

We'll have to agree to disagree. It would not have surprised me if someone had claimed Spartacus

at some point

but I wasn't expecting it that early.

unvote

The two lines of reasoning I'm currently trying to determine are these:
1. All players have been given the info to claim Spartacus.
2. Only pro-town players have been given the info to claim Spartacus.

Point #1: BC can only get cop power if he is recognized by a group. I'm thinking Spartacus claims activate this power.

I'm also thinking why would a Spartacus claim be given to scum so they could power up a cop?

Given these assertions, I have a list of who's pro-town and suspicions of who's not. But before I continue, I'd like to know how you feel about these two lines of reasoning. Is it not logical to assume reasoning #2? Honestly, I'm not sure myself. I'd like to believe it, but I may be mistaken.

unvote

I tentatively believe LM. And CA. As for the bold, I'm thinking that scum-claims of Spartacus didn't count towards the cop activation.

I think it's #2 and hence my vote for ash who didn't seem to know the reason pads claimed Spartacus.

I think I know what you are referring to and can answer it if pressed, but I would prefer to keep my cards close to my chest unless it is vitally important I do so.

Does the following help? -> I knew the reason

why

pads claimed Spartacus. I didn't know the reason why he did it

when

he did.

[AshMC1984]

I would never normally have claimed unprompted like that but I might come into suspicion later in the game for not having done so. Happy? It has the potential to out power roles and was

honestly pretty dumb of Pads to do in the first place.

I don't think discussion of the matter is helpful.

Infinis - what are your thoughts on the above post, especially the bold?

[AshMC1984]

I would never normally have claimed unprompted like that but I might come into suspicion later in the game for not having done so. Happy? It has the potential to out power roles and was

honestly pretty dumb of Pads to do in the first place.

I don't think discussion of the matter is helpful.

Infinis - what are your thoughts on the above post, especially the bold?

My thoughts on the above, sadness. It saddened me immensely that anyone who joined Kubrick mafia, did not know the "I am Spartacus!" scene. Hell, even if you didn't know it was Kubrick, wouldn't you know the scene? Spartacus was intentionally being hidden in plain sight.

By someone out and out claiming Spartacus it could be a scum gambit to fish out Spartacus, or Spartacus got over anxious and claimed, or someone is willing to sacrifice themselves to continue hiding Spartacus.

Out of those options, the first would presuppose knowing Spartacus was a power role for town, why risk a scum team member for a vanilla townie. The second option I leave to all of us to debate after a reread. And the third option puts a big WIFOM bomb on the scum, is he really Spartacus, do we NK him?

You've either missed, or conveniently side-stepped my intended point. My point is that you suspect me claiming that it seemed I didn't know the reason for Pads claiming, yet omit ortolan. His post was earlier than mine, and shows incredulity when mine showed curiosity.

Unvote

Vote: infinis

[AshMC1984]

Gut-read: Pads and Fish scum-team

Care to flesh this out? I know it's 'gut', but must come from somewhere.

vote: Pads

, because I want to see where that goes.

@Infinis

- Since you think it'd be stupid of scum not to claim Spartacus after the first few claims, I'd very much like to know which of the claimants you consider most likely to be scum at this point.

@Fishythefish

- I'm still having trouble consolidating the idea that you believe(d) Spartacus is likely a pro-town role yet wanted to keep the number of claims minimal, and it's strange that you went on to claim that it was not clear that Sparticans make good scum targets despite the former point.

@Cateraction

- What are your thoughts on the Pads wagon?

@BloodCovenent

- Were you, upon joining this game, familiar with the movie Spartacus?

Once again I apologise for my absence. More to come, I've been reading this thread for a good chunk of today but will be busy for a few hours.

Who do I think is scum...FTF his 164 is so scummy I dont know where to begin. As an opener muzz's 169 first line. That just leaped out of FTF post for me as well. And I too would like an explanation of the 3 claims left line.

Yet you're voting me. How interesting....

Everone else - all this set-up speculation is distracting from scum-hunting plus allowing scum to hide by speculating along with us. Unless you have a very good reason to be doing so, let's just hunt and lynch potential scum.

[AshMC1984]

I don't believe Infinis. My vote stands. First you suspect and vote me for flimsy reasons. Then when asked who you find most scummy you mention two people that aren't me. Did you forget who you were voting for? You claim to have re-read and changed your mind but forgot to mention that part? Next time, say so. An unexplained flip like this looks scummy. You abandon your pursuit of me after failing to garner any support and hop onto the biggest wagon. Your post 196 is not a wall o' text but a wall o' quotes. You misrepresent this. Trying to appear that you are saying more than you actually are?

[AshMC1984]

- If you were the cop, who would you investigate tonight?
-

If you were scum, who would you want to kill tonight?

this seems very scummy to me. Anyone else?

I'd say

slightly

scummy.

Vote Count 10

Muzzz (5): Cateraction, Lazurusmoth, Pads, Bloodcovenant, Infinis
Pads (4): Ort, Muzzz, Spolium. Fishy
Infinis (2) Skitzer, Ash
Fishy (1): Archon
Not Voting (0):

7 to Lynch

All right since we're at a stalemate. Let's see if we can deduce why.

The two leading wagons are Muzzz and Pads

That leaves 6 other people out of 10 to vote one of the wagons.

Skitzer and Archon should have been replaced but I'm not a mod and I don't know how hard it is to get replacements.

That leaves us needing 6 out of 8 people to vote one of the wagons.

Since we have need to have 2 more people for muzz to be lynched, and that leaves only ash, still OMGUS voting me (BTW I still think he's scum), present and not voting a wagon.

This means one of three things to me:
1. muzz is scum and at least two of Ort, Spolium, Fishy, and ash are scum.
2. pads is scum and at least two of Cateraction, Lazurusmoth, Pads, Bloodcovenant, Ash are scum
3. Nothing can be determined since we have so few people myself included posting daily or nearly daily.

I wil try and do a reread (hard to do on weekend since so many things to do.
[/list][/list]

Infinis: you seem in a rush to lynch - scummy.
You also put Muzzz at L-2 despite mentioning that I'm a top suspect for you more than once - scummy.
You also attempt to minimise my case on you as OMGUS when I think it's clear it's far from that. Do I need to go over it again? Also I don't see how my not joining one of the two prominant wagons is scummy as you imply.
Then you give a list of three potential scenarios. The only name that pops up twice is my own. Given the nature of D1 lynches I would think that you would be more than happy to vote me based on this. Yet you didn't - you voted someone you have a higher chance of getting lynched. If anything my vote for you is anti-OMGUS - you aren't gunning for me hard enough given what you've stated about me. If you wanted me lynched (as opposed to just hunting

a

lynch), then you should have built a case on me and tried to persuade others, not join the biggest wagon.
Very happy with my vote where it is.

[AshMC1984]

Ugh.... I forgot that no majority = no lynch in this game.

Unvote; Vote: Muzzz

Not willing to lynch Pads at this time, and in general I trust the people on the Muzzz-wagon more than those on the Pads-wagon.

[AshMC1984]

Am I at L-1?

No.

[AshMC1984]

Oh.

[AshMC1984]

You've either missed, or conveniently side-stepped my intended point. My point is that you suspect me claiming that it seemed I didn't know the reason for Pads claiming, yet omit ortolan. His post was earlier than mine, and shows incredulity when mine showed curiosity.

Please elaborate on what this is supposed to mean.

Sure - Infinis was selective about which of two very similar instances to deem scummy. Both you and I questioned the wisdom of Pads original early claim. You did so earlier than me and to a higher degree than me. Yet Infinis ignored you and called me scummy for it. I therefore think it only suited his scummy ends at the time to call it a scum-tell of mine. When I pointed it out to him, he maintained ignorance of the similarity between the two instances.

If Ash revotes his top suspect then we will only need four votes to lynch in five days if desired, which is readily attainable.

Fair enough.

*Pledge to re-instate my Infinis-vote if enough people are down with that plan.*

TBH I was / am surprised at the lack of interest in my Infinis-case. I thought it pretty good.

I still like Infinis as top scum suspect - I'm only voting Muzzz as the lesser of 3 evils (the greater 2 being a deadlined No-Lynch and Pads crap-wagon.)

[AshMC1984]

Was gonna wait to see support but -

Unvote

so no one quick hammers Muzzz now that we have a viable second option.

Vote: Infinis

[AshMC1984]

Unvote

I believe Infinis.

[AshMC1984]

Why wouldn't the scum know what VTs are in this game?

Why would they? Is it usual for scum to be provided a copy of the VT PM?

People unvoting: what claim would you expect scum to make in this game?

Not one as specific and accurate as Infinis. The next person to make this claim - not so credible - the first; yeah I buy it.

Also, if someone gets wagoned to a claim and then claims vanilla townie that is usually never a reason to unvote them

No, not usually, but Infinis said more than that and you know it. Your persistence in this matter looks scummy to me. Gonna do a quick Orto re-read now.

[AshMC1984]

Hallmarks of Orto's play:

Hesitant claim Spartacus.
Innuendo and unreasoned accusations.
Chit chat and exhaustive set-up speculation.
Rolefishing while decrying rolefishing.
Vote-hopping.

Conclusion: Would rather Orto lynched than Muzzz, but would rather Muzzz lynched than No Lynch. Orto seemed to almost save Muzzz from almost certain lynch with his late Infinis case - the fact that Orto

didn't

want Muzzz lynched makes me slightly more comfortable with a Muzzz-lynch.

Thoughts? Time for / interest in an Orto-wagon?

Vote: Ortolan

[AshMC1984]

I haven't read since my last post. Will catch up when I can, but it looks like we are headed for a NL. We can't do that.

Unvote; vote Pads

[AshMC1984]

Sorry, will catch up and post soon. This is now my only current game so I'll be able to give it full attention.

[AshMC1984]

All caught up now. Well, I'm undecided. We've established that Pads-scum had Spartacus knowledge. Infinis has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt I feel, that he has the VT PM. Having the VT PM and knowledge of Spartacus are not the same thing. Admittedly, Infinis' knowledge of the VT PM was all that stopped me continuing against him yesterday. Orto feels that scum receiving the VT PM is commonplace on MS. I have limited MS experience and have never had this myself. Can others back Orto up here or not?

[AshMC1984]

All caught up now. Well, I'm undecided. We've established that Pads-scum had Spartacus knowledge. Infinis has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt I feel, that he has the VT PM. Having the VT PM and knowledge of Spartacus are not the same thing. Admittedly, Infinis' knowledge of the VT PM was all that stopped me continuing against him yesterday. Orto feels that scum receiving the VT PM is commonplace on MS. I have limited MS experience and have never had this myself. Can others back Orto up here or not?

This post concerns me. I find it slightly scummy, I want more meat to your posts Ash. Give me some details. If your caught up in a 17 page game, you don't post a small paragraph saying all of your feelings. IMO, ash could be scum trying to derail a VT lynch. I feel that you have contributed literally nothing to this game so far, and i don't like that at all.

I admit I haven't been my usual vocal self in this game. As I've said more than once, I dislike all the endless set-up speculation here and that's probably resulted in putting me off somewhat. That seems to have been stemmed for now so I'm happy with that. Proposal: the next person to mention masons is policy-lynched!

If you specify aspects of my posts from now on where you want more details I''ll oblige.

I'm not attempting to derail Infinis' lynch - just been contemplating if I should contribute towards it or look elsewhere.

Here is where I am at: Infinis is either a vanilla townie who played in what I and others perceived as an exceedingly scummy manner on D1; or a scumbag who was privy to the VT PM.

For his town points - all I can say is that he knew the VT PM.
Scum potential - I suspected him for much of D1 (case already stated).

I'm not convinced that he is scum but I can see the logic in lynching someone who is at worst a scummy-playing VT when we seemingly have a good thing going here (correct lynch D1 / claimed cop and seemingly present doc working in tandem - hopefully BC produces something of use).

I'm not discounting lurker-scum who didn't bother logging on to submit an NK, or scum purposely submitting a No-Kill to make it appear that a doc correctly protected someone (presumably BC) but willing to risk it at this stage.

With that in mind

Vote: Infinis

I'd feel better about my vote if people would answer my previous question.

@All: Do you think it likely that scum would be privy to the VT PM based either on previous Empking modded games or MS games in general? (I've never experienced that myself).

@BC: Hammer away (though I wouldn't mind people answering my question first - I doubt it would change my mind unless it was a landslide against Orto's position).

[AshMC1984]

@All: Do you think it likely that scum would be privy to the VT PM based either on previous Empking modded games or MS games in general? (I've never experienced that myself).

This was already discussed ad nauseum yesterday.

As far as I see the only people to answer were Muzzz in the negative and Fishy in the positive.

[AshMC1984]

BC - result?

[AshMC1984]

Nice detectiving BC (assuming you are genuine).

^This.

Note to All: Don't hammer until we hear from Roffman.

I think Muzzz already hammered.

[AshMC1984]

I also want to know how BC knows roff activated him.

Why are we lynching laz again?

[AshMC1984]

Why?

[AshMC1984]

Vote: Kise

[AshMC1984]

Good game all. Thanks for modding Emp.

[AshMC1984]

Seriously well done BC. Also kudos to mafia - you had me guessing.

[AshMC1984]

Struck

[AshMC1984]

I was looking forward to

The Shining

and

Full Metal Jacket

but see that Emp's decision was best so the Spartacus thing worked. Maybe a sequel?