Mini #764: Notre Dame Mafia, Game Over

[AceMarksman]

Nothing is 100%. You spelling shit out doesn't help. Scum cannot communicate right now and thus cannot coordinate. Stop helping scum.

How is kast spilling out shit? what is he doing to help scum?

[AceMarksman]

Also, I

heavily

disagree that anyone who took the plague card is scum. Wouldn't a townie want to keep the scum from getting it?

[AceMarksman]

I could go for a plague claim or a 1/2 cop claim. Anyone have any reason why this shouldn't happen?

[AceMarksman]

I disagree with your taking of the 1/4 nightkill, as that one person will have to have used it FOUR TIMES in order to gain the extra night kill.

Anyone else have any opinion on claiming plague?

[AceMarksman]

Ace, read more carefully, the mafia collect it together as a group. I agree with Kinetic that the mafia should not ever be passed this card.

o.O oh shit.

[AceMarksman]

No, I passed a 1/4 night kill without reading the rules closer.

[AceMarksman]

Ok, I'm all for plague claims.
Ok, round one I took a plague over a 1/4 nightkill and a sanctuary because plague would be the worst card of the three to be passed to scum (not that I think ABR is scum atm, but still...)

I'm not going to use it unless there's some obv scum out there.

This man should not have any offensive type cards.

^this.

[AceMarksman]

I do plan on using my plague as a vig would.

Why?

[AceMarksman]

*adds Kinetic to the list of people I don't trust with a plague*

Plagueing someone without 1) getting the town's consensus before hand 2) telling the town the day afterwords is scummy. There's no pro-town motivation to killing someone without the consent of the town.

[AceMarksman]

Either way, what do you think a vig is?

A player who can kill every night and the kill is PREDICTABLE.
With a plague kill, the player isn't killed the night that they are infected. So, unless there is some flavor that goes along with a plague kill, the town won't know when that kill took place. Plague leaves too many variables, and I'd be willing to lynch a player for using a plague without telling the town first.

[AceMarksman]

I'm not lying, btw. I've got Plague, Rat, and Double.

Another reason why zwet should be lynched today.

[AceMarksman]

These are the players that we haven't heard much from at all:

-=KidIcarus, Budja, ortolan, tajo, Rishi.=-

[AceMarksman]

Over a doctor? Well, it depends what card. If it's a plague, then yes, I don't want scum to have two kills. I would take it above everything else tho.

[AceMarksman]

Vote:Kinetic

Here’s why:

First, he tries to set up everyone’s draft picks for the next two drafts in his post 88 leaving cards that would help the scum (mimic and double) near the bottom, and putting some that town might need (apoth, cop) near the bottom (putting cop on the very bottom second draft). This doesn’t help the town at all.

Next, he asks for a Plague claim (along with everyone else, including me) In 108.

The main thing drawing my vote, however is post 116 to post 120 where he claims intent on using he plague card against someone without telling anyone until his target dies. What would the town motivation be behind this? Nothing stands out.

Then he goes on to insult ABR in post post 122 for agreeing with my assessment of Kinetic’s plague card choice.

[AceMarksman]

This game needs less WIFOM and more lynches. Just sayin.

I really don't like zwet's intent to double a plague. I sense scum motivation behind it. Kinetic has redeemed himself (slightly) so,

Unvote, Vote zwet

*wakes up ABR*

[AceMarksman]

Kast, that was way TL;DR, but the case against kinetic actually came after the fact.

TL;DR, Kast just tried to kill me with a Wall of Text.

Vote:Kast

Diescumdie.

Pure OMGUS vote. I hate walls, but sometimes they do draw scum reactions like this.

Unvote, Vote: Kinetic

[AceMarksman]

also:

Stop using ad hom to bolster your arguments

Stop using ad hom to bolster your arguments

Oh really? Well lets see. I see an example of ad hom from you on this page.

Kast just tried to kill me with a Wall of Text. Vote:Kast Diescumdie.

Y so hypocritical?

[AceMarksman]

tag fail.

Mod, I will be forever grateful if you remove that SNAFU. Thanks

[AceMarksman]

FOS Ace. You've moved up to Zwet levels of needing lynched.

What have I done to deserve this moniker? Are you referencing my vote for kinetic? If so, then it was well justified, and I have been making cases against him all game. If not, then I don't see any reason for it. Could you explain?

[AceMarksman]

Charter, could you answer my question? You FoS me without giving a reason, except saying that I have "moved up to zwet's level of needing lynched." You can't just leave that without an explanation, and I would like one now, if you please.

Thanks.

[AceMarksman]

How was it untrue? Most of kast's posts were making cases against kinetic, and the next thing kinetic does is vote Kast. He doesn't give any reason except that kast was "[trying] to kill [kinetic] with a wall of text." His vote was OMGUS and I find it scummy.

[AceMarksman]

I would also like to see tajo's promissed thoughts on this game.

[AceMarksman]

This game is stagnant. Post people!

[AceMarksman]

There's a good option that doesn't involve him using any of his cards, I'm just saying.

And are you implying that I'm scum, as I'm after you in the list?

[AceMarksman]

Outbursts like that. I have an inkling that you would be impulsive with your offensive cards.

[AceMarksman]

meta

[AceMarksman]

ok, what would your choice of card usaged and on whom?

[AceMarksman]

Making sure that you won't do something stupid.

[AceMarksman]

Oh woe is me! The town proposed an idea that would screw up my newbie scum-team. I better say everything the scum *could* do and *should* do, depending on

"what cards scum got in their first round pick"

!

[/quote]

I don't get this. what point were you making here?

[AceMarksman]

Regardless of whether Zwet actually plays well or not, I think it is a mistake to lynch a bad player (unknown affiliation) over suspected scum.

I agree, but I haven't seen a scum accusation from you. Your analytical playstyle is nice and all, but sometimes you just need to grow a pair and say "X is scum because of Y and Z." I know this is your playstyle (from that game you want to reference), but more accusations please. Whom do you find scummy and why?

[AceMarksman]

And you are distracting the town from anything but the prospect of lynching zwet. Yes, zwet is (always) a1 good lynch, but there might be a better person on whom we may cast our vote.

If we *really* look at it, what particularly scummy actions has zwet done today? Yes, I don't trust him AT ALL with a rat and a plague AND a double, but I want to look at other people as well, as I have with kinetic.

[AceMarksman]

tajo, you need to say something. You are lurking heavily, with your only posts to say "I'm working on a read" or "I'm going to post soon." Please join us.

[AceMarksman]

I think Ace is being a bit rash with some posts, but that fits well with the "paranoid townie" behavior that he exhibited in the previous game that I played with him.

I'm not paranoid! I know what you're doing! You're setting me up for a lynch, that's what you're doing! I found you out! You won't take me alive!!!


(yes, the above was a joke, just in case you couldn't obtain my sarcasm via osmosis or something like that)

[AceMarksman]

179 was made by the mod, not I.

[AceMarksman]

*facepalm* oh. That makes a lot more sense.

[AceMarksman]

He told you why not telling someone when you've plagued them is a good idea. I wouldn't even have wanted the plague cards claimed in all honesty. We have at least two nights to get apothecaries on the most townie players as judged by themselves and the other townies, which is more likely to leave scum assuming decent townie choices. And "insulting ABR" isn't a reason he is scum.

Sentance by sentance:
-Yeah, and I told you why telling someone that you plagued is a good idea. Doesn't mean that I didn't hear his argument and doesn't mean that It's the right play
-Good for you
-That's not a long time, and people are more likely to use other cards (doc or cop) in lieu of apoths.
-Not a major point.

Why has Kinetic redeemed himself? Why are you buddying up to ABR? I have you both down as the scummiest currently (you in the lead) but wonder if you'd be so blatant with a scumbuddy.

Again, sentance by sentacne.
-His posting has gotten less accusatory.
-Voting someone for the same reasons as another is buddying?
-Is this pulled out of your ass? I want to see some times where you think I "buddied" with ABR. Is it bad that I have a town read (albiet lazy town) on him?

[AceMarksman]

Ortolan, stop using WIFOM as a basis of attack against me, especially in double standards. For instance, you use my "buddying" as evidence against me, even though that would be "blatant" as you put it, yet you attack a point of mine by saying:

Do you think scum would be that obvious?

No but attacking someone else for "insulting" him is, as is "waking him up? Granted I didn't realise the context when I made that point (him saying "wake me up when we lynch zwet"

Will you please stop pulling scumtells out of your ass? Please?
-"insulting" IT'S NOT A MAJOR ARGUMENT! LET IT GO!
-"wake him up" It was a joke. Stop pushing this bullshit argument now.

[AceMarksman]

I don't know, and this game deserves a re-read from me.

Zwet is, well, zwet, so I can't get a good read on him, but I think he's either Idiot town or scum

I'm not sure about Kinetic, haven't heard much from him recently as his last post was just to avoid a prod.

I want another goomba post, except abbreviated.

Um, who else?

[AceMarksman]

Pot... kettle.

[AceMarksman]

Why do you think I'm scum? What evidence do you have?

Five bucks says his answer is less than one line in length.

[AceMarksman]

The way kinetic (I think it was him) explained it, I screwed up the entire game or something. *shrug*

[AceMarksman]

You cheated

and what evidence do you have for this? You didn't give any, as per my original question.

[AceMarksman]

Why isn't Slicey dead yet? It's pretty clear to me that he is scum.

Vote: Slicey

What is your case against him? This seems really OMGUS.

[AceMarksman]

zwet isn't the right lynch today. Policy lynches should be left for day one.

CTD: I see what you're saying. I must think on this.

[AceMarksman]

stop being so opportunistic, it really doesn't help your meta.

[AceMarksman]

HOW ABOUT THEM TAR HEELS! WOOOOH!!!

*ahem*

ABR, any reason we should lynch zwet besides his cards?

[AceMarksman]

Got my prod. Have the flu. Will try to catch up once I feel better.

Feel better!

There is no town motivation for playing them unless one is forced to by the cards one has. IF we mass-claim them we may catch scum using them in some instances, otherwise it will discourage scum from using them and thus make town protection abilities more likely to succeed. As I said, I don't see any harm at all in claiming them- they are simply an anti-town card.

yes, but the most pro town course of action is to take a rat if given the chance to prevent scum from getting it. I don't see where a rat claim helps at this point in time.

[AceMarksman]

*sigh* CTD, it feels like I've answered your points a million times.

- - -


-"Oh Shit": I don't think there's any way to prove to you that I thought I had royally screwed up the town by not keeping my 1/4 nightkill.

-Kinetic votes: If I were trying to throw my vote around to somewhere it would stick, wouldn't my vote be on zwet or something? Which leads to:

-zwet: In the early parts of the game, my vote on him was mostly policy (and fear of him having plague, and rat, AND double), but now I don't feel he is the best vote for today.

-slicey: I have read him through in isolation, but that doesn't give me much info. I'm actually looking at a connection between him and ABR, whom we haven't heard much from recently. I've also been really bogged down with homework, but it's spring break now, so I'll have much more time.

If necessary or more promissing, I'm willing to switch to Budja or Slicey depending on what his replacement has to say.

...and I get the feeling that he's throwing his vote around in order to find something that sticks.

Hm, I find this a little contradictory. Here you say that you are willing to place your vote on someone else if it will stick, or am I reading this wrong?

- - -

ABR, where did you go? We haven't heard much from you. What do you think of the goomba's recent posts and Slicey's disapearance.

Kast, I've been looking at your plan and I like it. It makes sense to me. Who would you have be the "Chosen One" as you put it?

As for rat cards, I am not in possetion of one of these.

Charter, I don't fully understand your vote. What reasons did you have, again? How did those cooincide with what you quoted? You bring up posts 5 and 16, are you talking about posts in game or posts made by budja?

[AceMarksman]

PS: Kast and AceMarkman need to stop posting in mod colors. It bugs me.

Wait, what?

As I've said TWICE, you were scared because I had good cards?

As I've answered TWICE, yes I was. ABR supplied sufficient meta against your vigilante skills.

[AceMarksman]

should be "vigilante or other pro-town power role".

[AceMarksman]

Nope. That's not what you said.

I realize this, I should have proofread.

[AceMarksman]

Meant to add this to 321:

Charter: I don't see anything particularly wrong with Budja's 5 and 16, could you explain what is scummy about them?

[AceMarksman]

I actually think budja's 16 is helpful as it was posted during ABR's crusades against Zwet IIRC. Not as much content as, say, Kast, but not lurking.

Are you sure that your vote is not based around OMGUS, charter?

[AceMarksman]

Interesting that you would say it's interesting. Interestingly enough, the word interesting is coming up a lot.

Anywho, I was just wondering about it, because I didn't see what you found negative about his 5 and 16.

As for the first part: d'oh.

[AceMarksman]

Wait, didn't you scoff at my "179"?

[AceMarksman]

@ kast: your meta of me makes me die a little bit on the inside when I read it. I come off as such a bad player

Anywho quoted for my convinience.

6- I don't understand what "^this" means. It seems like declaration of intent to plague Zwet or possibly ABR. Is this correct?
8- Questioning and badgering Kinetic seems a bit like trying to buddy with me (I admit I may have bias in my analysis). Also, you just expressed a reason why you would use a plague card. It is a bit weird that you can't apply your own reason/thought process to Kinetic-townie doing the same thing. AM's beliefs about vigs makes him sound like a newbie. It is a terrible idea for vigs to announce themselves prior to killing and almost always just as bad to announce their intended target. I think I missed when ABR agreed with this bad strategy/belief.
15,20,30 (others)-I think Ace is reading all of my posts, but I don't think he is understanding everything that I have posted. It also sounds like he is looking for me to "solve" the game. He did this in our other game as well.
26-I think this is an anti-town request to make. I think it is consistent with AM's previously stated (and also anti-town) belief regarding vigilantes.
29-He said almost the exact same thing on Day 1 of our previous game. The town followed it up by lynching my top suspect who turned out to be scum. Ace then began Day 2 by calling for my lynch with primary reason that Kast is clearly the most pro-town player. I think Ace is looking for me to provide a solid/decent case to wagon. I could see both town and scum Ace doing this.
43-I don't think you completely understand what a policy lynch is. Lynching Zwet based on his past meta and/or for behavior that does not indicate that he is scum would be policy lynching. Policy lynches should never take priority over lynching suspected scum. Policy lynches are more acceptable on Day 1 because there is less concrete evidence to indicate that any player is more likely to be scum. Zwet is right to call you out for this.
30 Revisited- This thought is aimed at CTD. I don't get the impression that you claimed at all. He is clearly not advocating Zwet's lynch; he is asking ABR to look elsewhere. The easiest suspicious read I can get from this would be that Ace may be trying to convince his scumbuddy and provide a way for ABR to release pressure on what looks like a stalled Zwet wagon

6-"^this" means "I agree"
8-The plague mechanic is altogether different than the vig mechanic, so I though announcing your kill would be positive.
15,20,30- Your meta is to be very analytical but without synthesising the analysis into a case. I had no reason to believe that this game would be different.
29-again, my meta slaps me in the face.
43-ok

[AceMarksman]

You seem to be really set on budja's lynch. This has been noted.

[AceMarksman]

I am nowhere near your world. Kast has only seen one of my games.

[AceMarksman]

That was distancing, how?

[AceMarksman]

what I said was a joke.

But HAEL NAU YOU GET AWAY FROM ME.

[AceMarksman]

The only games I've played with zwet, he was scum, so I don't have any meta to disprove that.

Right now, I'm not liking charter. I've got him as my number one suspect. I'll put together my thoughts on that tomorrow.

[AceMarksman]

Woah, didn't know my vote was still on kinetic.

unvote

Right now, I'm tripped out on hidrocodon for some pain I'm having, so I don't have the mental capacity to formulate a case atm. Sorry.

[AceMarksman]

Zwet and ABR: stop this useless bitching back and forth now. It really doesn't help the town. Last time I saw this from zwet, both him and the person he was arguing with were scum.

[AceMarksman]

@ ort: tl;dr for now, but I'll read it later. I'm swamped with homework. however:

Link to game and tell me where to look please if it's not ongoing. I wouldn't mind getting a better meta on zwet considering he's in virtually every game I'm in!

It starts on page nine of open 126 where zwet and empking (yes, they were in the same game *shudder*) started arguing back and forth. Both of them were scum.

[AceMarksman]

Also, I don't have rat or 1/4NK, which I've already claimed.

[AceMarksman]

I have gone back and looked at charter’s posts in isolation, and I have found some scum in them.

First, looking at his fifth post, he attempts to look town (and almost gets modkilled) by claiming that he is town because of “extra lines at the end of his role PM”. To refresh your memory, this was back when PJ showed us a sample town role PM to explain the mechanics of the Plague card. Notice it was a TOWN PM, so he gained nothing by claiming this (PJ even confirmed what the extra line was at the end and that everyone received it.)

More importantly in this post, however, he places a “serious vote” on ABR with a promise that he will “explain later”. He has yet to explain this vote.

Next, in his sixth post, he posts a shady plan that involves massclaiming cards, but won’t clarify it (he even tells us to “not ask him” about it.) This is rather sketchy, as the town knows not of the intended outcome of said “plan.” He keeps refrencing his “plan” in his next few contentless posts. Charter, what is your plan? Are you still wishing to use/implement it? Can you clarify?

Now, up to his post twelve, charter fully supports a card massclaim, but in thirteen…

Yeah, I'm not so gung ho about a massclaim anymore.

And then in fourteen is wholly against it. Why the sudden switch? Thirteen was in response to a kinetic quote which read “you sir, are an idiot.” Why did this change your mind? In fourteen he claims that he is ready to “lynch kast in the next seven posts” but gives no reason besides “I read kast’s post.”

Ok, I’ve got to pause here as my school work is catching up to me. This will be continued, and allow me to go ahead and

unvote, Vote: Charter

(and if you say this is OMGUS, My foot will be so far up your ass that you’ll have severe brain damage)

[AceMarksman]

Ace, terrible case. I really don't know what else to say about that.

Well, you can start by saying what you think is "terrible" about it. It seems the only defense you are pulling is ad hom by saying "that's a terrible case". Have you fully defended yourself once this game?

[AceMarksman]

ort-a response to (now) both of your posts would take a lot of time, and I'm swamped. As it was, I had that case on charter typed up for a few days, working on it when I could, so I figured I might as well post what I have. I should be free to respond on tuesday. However this-

I'm sensing a theme of not liking people on the charter wagon.

Gets a raised eyebrow from me.

[AceMarksman]

Charter: Ok, say you lynch either of us, what then? What information would you gather from my flip? Also, is there anyone else you find scummy? Anyone that seems obvtown to you?

[AceMarksman]

First off, I note how you completely ignore my shooting down your case.

You hardly "shot it down" but this is beside the point.

You didn't unvote or respond, so I assume you think it's still good

You assume correctly.

What information would I get from your flip? What?!?!? We see who was eager to get onto your wagon, who ignored it, who gave legit reasons. The same kind of stuff that you get from EVERY wagon.

I realize this, what I want to know is what you personally would get from my flip. Who would you see as scum if I flip town or scum? would it clear anyone? What are the specifics?

Is there anyone else I find scummy?!?@? WHAT??? I've repeated that I find you and Budja scummy as hell. How many suspects do I need day one? How many do you have? Why aren't you concerned with others that have more/less/the same number (whichever I'm doing that you don't like) of suspects as me?

By "other" I meant other than budja and I. This wasn't meant to be an attack or a case, just a question. Is it so wrong for me to ask a simple question?

[AceMarksman]

Actually, the most pro-town course of action for you at the moment is to discuss what the effects of my lynch would be as it appears you are hard-fast set on either mine or budja's lynch today.

[AceMarksman]

here quoted for my convenience (with dashes added for ease of reading)

I have gone back and looked at charter’s posts in isolation, and I have found some scum in them.

-First, looking at his fifth post, he attempts to look town (and almost gets modkilled) by claiming that he is town because of “extra lines at the end of his role PM”. To refresh your memory, this was back when PJ showed us a sample town role PM to explain the mechanics of the Plague card. Notice it was a TOWN PM, so he gained nothing by claiming this (PJ even confirmed what the extra line was at the end and that everyone received it.)

-More importantly in this post, however, he places a “serious vote” on ABR with a promise that he will “explain later”. He has yet to explain this vote.

-Next, in his sixth post, he posts a shady plan that involves massclaiming cards, but won’t clarify it (he even tells us to “not ask him” about it.) This is rather sketchy, as the town knows not of the intended outcome of said “plan.” He keeps refrencing his “plan” in his next few contentless posts. Charter, what is your plan? Are you still wishing to use/implement it? Can you clarify?

-Now, up to his post twelve, charter fully supports a card massclaim, but in thirteen…
[quote="charter"
Yeah, I'm not so gung ho about a massclaim anymore.

And then in fourteen is wholly against it. Why the sudden switch? Thirteen was in response to a kinetic quote which read “you sir, are an idiot.” Why did this change your mind? In fourteen he claims that he is ready to “lynch kast in the next seven posts” but gives no reason besides “I read kast’s post.” [/quote]

-A rather poor way to make yourself look pro town. I feel a town aligned player would not need this, for lack of a better phrase, ploy to gain town points.

-Any time someone votes without giving a reason in the same post gets an IGMEOY from me. The reason for this vote was not fully answered until a few posts ago. This is also not something I would see a town aligned player doing.

-Your plan was concealed from the town. Having a potentially game breaking strategy yet witholding it is never a pro-town course of action.

-You go from supporting a massclaim to being completely against it in the course of 1-2 posts. You also go from what apears to be a neutral read on kast to being "willing to lynch him in 7 posts" for a recent post. This reminds me, what in his post did you disagree with? What points did you wish to bring up against it? I didn't see anything particularly wrong with it (sans how freakishly long it was).

Does that satisfy you?

[AceMarksman]

From a charter lynch:

If town: It will disprove an ort-charter relationship (which I am seeing). It will make me consider Rishi as a scum candidate

If scum: It will make me feel good about my scumdar. It will strengthen an ort-charter relationship. It will bring up the issue of bussing between him and budja.

[AceMarksman]

do you see anything else from a charter lynch? Maybe shed some light on kast's alignment.

[AceMarksman]

If town: It will disprove an ort-charter relationship (which I am seeing). It will make me consider Rishi as a scum candidate

If scum: It will make me feel good about my scumdar. It will strengthen an ort-charter relationship. It will bring up the issue of bussing between him and budja.

-So if you get charter lynched you'll be able to disprove a relationship which so far no-one but you has posited, and which you have not actually argued for (beyond taking advantage of the obvious fact that I am effectively defending charter at present). And you will push for Rishi's lynch, effectively lining up another lynch for you.

-If scum: you line up two chain-lynches, myself and Budja- apparently Budja attacking him, peculiarly, means they are scumbuddies busing; in contrast to the nature of all the other connections you've made. Also apparently

you

can't be a scumbuddy busing him, nor can I. Why is that?

-I have noticed it, but you haven't looked especially scummy, it's just a connection that I've noticed.

-No. Chain lynches are NEVER (well, almost never) a good idea. This is borderline a misrepresentation of what I said. I said that it will bring up the issue of bussing between budja and charter, but will be far from making it mean they are scumbuddies. I never said that you can't be scumbuddies with him, but I know that I can't because, well, I'm not scum.

The quoted was a blatant spin of my recent post, and I request that you refrain from doing so again.

[AceMarksman]

Niether is certain, and I never said it makes me innocent (I know that I am, but this is up for you to decide), and I never said that he

IS

bussing budja, I just said that the possibility rises (as it does in ALL games of mafia).

[AceMarksman]

Rishi and zEEnon are both currently voting for charter. Why did you not raise the possibility of one or the other of these being busing scum, if charter flips scum?

Oh, I completely forgot about them (mainly because we haven't heard much from them) but zEEnon's vote is from the RVS, no?

This is so wrong it pains me. The very fact that you make the argument like this, assumes I am town, which means you are scum (because you assume I'm town, but are still voting me). How is me having (what I Thought was) a gamebreaking plan, but not disclosing it make me scummy? If I was scum, wouldn't I have just kept my mouth shut and not said anything? You are assuming that since I had one, but didn't disclose it upfront, that I have to be scum. This is ridiculous and not how massclaims on day one work at all. You don't explain how you catch scum through massclaim, then claim.

How do you glean this bs from my argument, huh? You claimed to have a good plan, but we wouldn't know which alignment your plan was good for. A pro town player would give as much information as they could, therefore I infer that your plan was not a pro town one.

Go back and read kast's post. It ruined ALL hope of massclaim being effective.

You were against a massclaim before kast's post, no?

Rishi has just been a lurker. From what I recall, his vote on me was pretty early, and while bad, I think it came before Ace and Budja were caught, so the scummiest thing I see from it is that that is all he can add to the game, when there is a lot he is just ignoring.

You keep making these generalizations like "there is a lot he is just ignoring" or "he has been so scummy." Rishi also asked a few of the same general questions that I did, why did you answer mine with a more callous tone than his?

because that's really zero reason to lynch me.

Because being scummy isn't reason enough..?

You feeling good about your scumdar isn't a reason to lynch anyone.

This part was a joke, I see you didn't pick up on that.

UMMMM, HOLD ON. How can it bring up bussing between me and budja? Budja isn't even going after me.

Bussing can work two ways, and you seem to be going after him. Again, I said this BRINGS UP THE IDEA of bussing, it does NOT MEAN THAT YOU ARE.

Zwet, stop being the peanut gallery and do something. ABR seems to have dissapeared, and I would like to hear his thoughts on this. Another goomba post would be nice (with the precondition that it be abridged)

[AceMarksman]

I'm tired of this, and I don't have time for it. It's obvious that you're going to spit on whatever I say so I'm just gonna wait for something else to happen.

[AceMarksman]

I've thought about it and, as much as I don't like it, my lynch will give the town the most information. Is this the only reason for my lynch in your eyes, ort?

[AceMarksman]

zwet, is that all you are going to comment on. And for the love of god, for the FOURTH TIME, I said it brings up the idea of charter bussing budja! It doesn't mean that it was true 100%

[AceMarksman]

Ok, looking at PJ's most recent vote count, I have some questions

1)ABR, where the hell are you?
2)Budja, why is your vote still on ABR. Do you still find him scummy?
3)zEEnon, number one applies to you as well.
4)KidIcarus, please come back/I hope we get a replacement for you soon.
5)CTD, what are your opinions about this whole charter, ort, Rishi and I exchange?
6)Zwet, whom are you most suspicious of?

[AceMarksman]

Budja I'm not feeling ok with your defenses of me. They give me an air of being slightly forced. You also failed to answer my question pointed at you in my previous post.

[AceMarksman]

I'm not interacting with DGB. It's a new policy I am enacting across the site. It's regrettable she came into this game, because if her and zwet aren't scum, now it's 5v7, so today would be LYLO.

Another caught scum!

^this. Such a flippant attitude is not something that would come from a townie when a replacement makes such a strong entrance into the game.

DGB has earned townpoints for her entrance.

@CTD: I found most of her assignments of points to be quite fair, and far from arbitrary (even if a lot of the scumpoints were attributed to me ). List the points that you think are undeserved, please.

[AceMarksman]

Charter, if you're not going to do something constructive, then please don't post AtE.

[AceMarksman]

Another AtE? Really?

[AceMarksman]

AtE just bugs the hell out of me.

[AceMarksman]

Wait, didn't you just say it wasn't a reliable tell?

[AceMarksman]

Budja or I, charter? It looks like you have the most votes here, did you just ignore that?

[AceMarksman]

DGB, why were you so quick to vote me after charter's post, and then just as quick to show intrest in reapplying said vote?

[AceMarksman]

^the above does not help my scum view of charter :/.

[AceMarksman]

You think charter is town... because he's given up? What? >>;;

[AceMarksman]

This one needs its own special post:

Because of DGB's post I really do not want Budja lynched.

Seriously? Because you've been saying he's scum. I've been defending Budja. So if you think Budja will flip scum, you could really shut me up. Then I'd look terrible for defending a scumbag. So why would you not want to lynch Budja, all of a sudden?

It leaves the door open, if he flips town, for DGB to gain townpoints for having defended him.

But again, you think Budja is scum, right? So wouldn't I be more likely, by your calculations, to get scumcred for having defended a scumbag?

It is still quite plausible he is town- his constant "having it both ways" may be consistent with his playstyle.

Aw, now you're backing up.

Ortolan knows Budja will flip town.

The vacated ABR slot won't get any traction. The more direct interactions I have with charter, the more he leans town. Ace is a bit of a toss up.

Now, at last a vote I really, really like.

vote: ortolan

I have some problems with this post.

1) ort was high on your town list, yet you turn around and vote him?
2)Said vote seems rather OMGUS.
3) "ortolan knows Budja will flip town". a) this is baseless. b)you yourself defended budja. Doesn't this mean you think he will flip town?


Your switching votes at a drop of a hat is bothering me, so:

Unvote, Vote: DGB

[AceMarksman]

That would be true if my vote was not justified by the arguments that accompanied my vote.

This can be argued.

No, it's not baseless at all. Have you read the post?

Au Contrare, mon ami, I have read the post and I feel it is baseless.

Indeed I do think he will flip town. But if you look carefully, ortolan was pushing for Budja to DIE, until he took a step back, and decided that Budja flipping town would be too high a price to pay in terms of town cred for me, and scum dirt on him. So he's making all these calculations that depend on Budja flipping scum... then based on these calculations, he wants Budja to LIVE, and LYNCH me instead. Calculations based on Budja being scum. Do you get it now? Then in the same breath, he backtracks and decides Budja isn't scum after all... and still his calcuations hold? Is your thinking cap on?

This summary is painting ort's post in the worst possible light.

BTW, you also switched vote at the drop of a hat, should it bother me?

Um, I've been calling you out for votehopping for the past few posts. I would not call that "at the drop of a hat".

[AceMarksman]

To those who aren't voting: See? even the

mod

wants you to vote.

[AceMarksman]

charter, do you have to turn

everything

into an attack Budja/me/zwet/Rishi all the time?

[AceMarksman]

Charter: my vote is on DGB, which kinda invalidtates this part of your most recent post.

but the reason is because Ace keeps coming back, time and time again, trying to get anything to stick

[AceMarksman]

It's pretty bad when you're guilty of something you're accusing me of. You're just throwing dirt, hoping something will stick. Honestly, you can point out when someone is right, but don't take such an elitest attitude about it, and DO NOT put down either me OR zwet just for your own personal enjoyment.

[AceMarksman]

Please do. I would like to see prescisely what you think, and I would like a chance to respond to a formal case.

And where have I defended Budja? I called him out for his defenses of me (somewhere back around page 16 I think?) and I don't have a great feeling about him right now.

[AceMarksman]

welcome, ac1983fan! *looks at deadline* heh, good luck in reading this game by then, it's fairly long (I know I couldn't do it :/).

[AceMarksman]

Speaking of kinetic, where in god's name is he? Have we heard anything from him?

Prod: kinetic

if he is within prodding zone

[AceMarksman]

I would also like to know if he finds DGB scummy.

Your attempt to manipulate the new kid on the block into focusing on one particular player is noted, scumbag.

I actually agree with this. That was horrible phrasing, ort.

[AceMarksman]

@ KAST - help!

if DGB flips scum, IGMEO Kast.

[AceMarksman]

Ok, just coming back, I really, REALLY don't like ort's list of reasons to lynch DGB. when I have mroe time, I'll go through them listing things I disagree with.

[AceMarksman]

*sigh* this game is on the twenty-fifth page of day one. If deadline looms and no lynch is about to occur, I'll switch my vote to budja. Otherwise, I feel DGB is the correct lynch for the day.

[AceMarksman]

we need to hear more from Kinetic and Rishi.

Mod: prod kinetic and Rishi (if Rishi is within prodding range)

[AceMarksman]

ac, how do you know...?

[AceMarksman]

The mod gave us three possible cards to pick from. We picked one and passed the remaining two to the player below us. We picked one from the two that we got from the player above us and passed the third, which gave us three.

[AceMarksman]

looking back, I'm starting to suspect zwet a little because of the cards he passed to me. He passed a sanctuary, an apothicary, and a mimic over a rat, plague, and mimic.

[AceMarksman]

looking back, I'm starting to suspect zwet a little because of the cards he passed to me. He passed a sanctuary, an apothicary, and a mimic over a rat, plague, and mimic.

... and you didn't happen to mention this earlier why?

I forgot about cards, and didn't make the connection between having those cards as options for being drafted and those cards being passed on :/

Still, I think DGB is a more likely candidate for being scum than zwet. Zwet still gets a

Huge FoS

from me.

[AceMarksman]

Guys, please hurry up, we only have 2 days to lynch DGB.

Ok, just coming back, I really, REALLY don't like ort's list of reasons to lynch DGB. when I have mroe time, I'll go through them listing things I disagree with.

You never did this, and subsequently reiterated you want DGB lynched, which is...kind of odd.

if anyone cares e.g. CTD, Budja was scum in this game: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10654

Oh yeah, forgot about that, and I'm swamped tonight. I'll do that in a few days.

I don't like your reasons, but I still think DGB is a good lynch.

[AceMarksman]

I kid you not.

Oh and

Mod, a vote count would be much appreciated

[AceMarksman]

Oh, right then.

[AceMarksman]

deadline is looming, and I don't want this day to end in no-lynch

unvote, Vote; budja

[AceMarksman]

^^ at this point he will be lynched anyway.

just in case someone unvotes.

[AceMarksman]

Zwet passed a sanctuary and an apothecary after the first draft, and a mimic after the second.

[AceMarksman]

Budja, explain yourself.

[AceMarksman]

Why don't you? He's gonna be lynched already, might as well get it over with faster, if nothing else but to give are new replacements a night to read over the game.

[AceMarksman]

claim?

[AceMarksman]

townie.

=next lynch.

[AceMarksman]

Also here to publicly state that this game should not be abandoned and that I hope you all PMed PJ to that effect.

I fully endorse this product and or service.

[AceMarksman]

Kast, I have neither a rat nor a NK, which I have already claimed before. Your info is wrong.

Also on the double/mimic descrepancy:
1)double and mimic serve a similar purpose
2)Zwet passed a mimic.
3)As I was typing, I thought double, but typed mimic. I confused the two.

(one and two are an explanation of three)

[AceMarksman]

Ending today means increasing the chance that replacements will not be available and 1-2 players will be randomly passing cards

There is no draft tonight, so no-one will be randomly passing cards.

[AceMarksman]

I'm tired, just got in, but I'm pretty sure there's at least one scum in: [ortolan, zwet, kinetic, dgb]. I would include charter in this list, but I don't see his unreleting stance on budja to come from a scumbuddy.

[AceMarksman]

I am. The Budja wagon seems mostly townie to me.

Your crap cardpassing looks scummy to me. To refresh, he passed a sactuary, an apoth, and a mimic over a plague, a rat, and a double.

[AceMarksman]

you drew the scummiest card in the game over two of the most town to feel more like a man? Really?

[AceMarksman]

you drew the scummiest card in the game over two of the most town to feel more like a man? Really?

Yes. Is that so hard to believe?

It's not hard to believe coming from zwet!scum.

Vote: Zwetschenwhateverhisnameis

[AceMarksman]

Craplogic? Really? you took the scummiest card in the game over two cards that would help the town. That's not craplogic at all. Stop with the ad hom.

[AceMarksman]

you're trying to de-rail good wagons with craplogic, opportunistic votes.

[AceMarksman]

Yes, thank you. This was exactly my point. You tried to get Ace or DGB lynched all day, rather than Budja. Budja was scum.

You're making quite the claim here... There are three scum you know... Ace and DGB could be scum.

Are you just saying this or do you believe that DGB and I (or one or the other) are scum?

[AceMarksman]

Kinetic, I don't like your egging on of the town, daring them to plague you. Apoths do exist, and I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that you've used one on yourself.

FoS Kinetic

One of Zwet's three cards was passed to him. If it were the plague or the rat, then his picks aren't really that suspicious at all.

IIRC, zwet picked rat first. Zwet, what order did you pick your cards. Be honest, as I can ask the player above you for confirmation.

[AceMarksman]

I can't believe Kast actually thinks I am more suspicious than DGB, who NEVER VOTED KAST AT ALL, continually insisting he was town

Kast can't find you suspicious because you never voted him? Really?

[AceMarksman]

Ah yes, 1. Plague
2.Double
3. Rat

looker, can you confirm this?

[AceMarksman]

@kast-yes, I meant to unvote in that other post.

unvote, Vote: orto-scum

IGMEO zwet

still, though.

[AceMarksman]

ORT IS AT L-1!! be careful, town.

[AceMarksman]

Bah, ninjad.

No, I didn't use my plague.

[AceMarksman]

lol. Its funny, if I were to hammer ort it'd be a bus if he comes up scum and opportunistic scum if he comes up town.

I take it you had intent of hammering ort?

Suspicion doesn't come solely from hammering. Had kast quickhammered, I wouldn't have thought him scummy for it, as he's played a very strong town game all game. You, on the other hand, would draw my vote for it.

[AceMarksman]

TOWN: When I flip town,

at the very least please, please, please, please, please policy-lynch DGB

. Tomorrow you will have at least two out of three dead townies who have said DGB is the scummiest player in this game. If I get lynched today and DGB is not lynched tomorrow I will be very displeased with the players constituting this town.

I'm really starting to think Kast is DGB's buddy ("haha she's been buddying up to me, but that doesn't make her scum hehe").

He's also participating in lining up a lynch on Kinetic which is patently scummy

. What's the bet tomorrow, having said "her actions are scummy, but not as scummy as yours, ortolan", and then seeing me flip town, he will go after someone entirely different to DGB (note: even if he does bus DGB out of necessity it won't clear him)

speaks for it's self, doesn't it?

[AceMarksman]

I've really become addicted to this game. I checked this thread probably forty times while it was locked to see if anything new had happened. A life, I has not one.

[AceMarksman]

That's not a lynch. Nice try, zwet. Now to decipher if he is stupid scum or trying one of his fakehammers. I would unvote, but ort is scummy as sin and I wouldn't mind if she is legit hammered.

[AceMarksman]

Actually, ort is at L-2. So he's relatively far from the hammer.

[AceMarksman]

846 and 847 from DGB seem like genuine townie reactions to a fakehammer. She gets townpoints.

[AceMarksman]

Thanks for killing the reactions.

*facepalm* They're nulltells, idiot.

If you think reactions are nulltells, then why did you pull that little stunt?

[AceMarksman]

If we tell him who to plague, the scum will just apoth the person he targets if one of his targets is scum.

[AceMarksman]

I think I already know what your plan was, and it's far from foolproof.

[AceMarksman]

what was it?

[AceMarksman]

Yeah, that's not foolpoof at all. For one, I wouldn't trust your scum list at all.

[AceMarksman]

It's a big deal because CTD was a very pro-town feeling player. I see no town motivation behind plaguing him.

[AceMarksman]

charter, why aren't you voting anyone? you seem to be adamant about the ortolan lynch, so why is your vote not there?

[AceMarksman]

Bah I'm stupid. I posted that and then saw the post where you said you would hear ort out.

[AceMarksman]

I think it is likely that townies picked apoths and scum probably passed them.

Zwet passed me an apoth...

[AceMarksman]

CTD was voting budja at the end of the day, if that's what you're asking

[AceMarksman]

*twitch* really, looker? really? Provide a case, at least.

[AceMarksman]

Um, you're wrong. There was a significant wagon on her yesterday.

[AceMarksman]

Looks like someone faked reading the thread.

[AceMarksman]

ort is obvscum. I've never seen a self vote from a pro-town player.

[AceMarksman]

I checked out Looker's posts all over the site.

He's a zwet clone. The only difference is that Looker doesn't capitalize 35% of the time when he should, whil zwet is a more reliable "capitalizer."

No, you see, zwet actually has a brain and can think if he wants to. Looker on the other hand *twitch*

Sorry, I'm in a few games with him.

[AceMarksman]

The difference being that you're "sanity-challenged" as you signature says, while ort isn't.

[AceMarksman]

ort is pulling defenses from his posterior. If I had more time, I would go through them one by one, but I don't, so it will have to wait for tomorrow.

[AceMarksman]

charter, ort wants to die. Can we not abide by his wishes?

[AceMarksman]

explain the above please AceMarksman. Do you think I am scum?

Um, yeah I do, that's why I'm voting you and continue to post points against you.

[AceMarksman]

In my experiance, I've only seen scum self-vote, and my philosiphy is this: if you are town, then you are the ONLY confirmed pro-town player that you know of. Considering this, then WHY would you vote the only person that you know is pro-town? Also consider that ort thinks that his lynch will give us information about the alignments of other players.

[AceMarksman]

Yes, but I've never seen it as I've stated. I've also stated that your playstyle is greatly different than ort's, and that ort feels that his lynch will give us information on your alignment.

Hm... This is actually quite interesting, DGB is trying to talk me out of an ort lynch. I'm having second thoughts about an ort lynch now. I still feel he is scummy, but the above post is making me consider DGB again...

[AceMarksman]

Kinetic: you are my second suspect, as your day one play was less than stellar.

Why are you asking this?

[AceMarksman]

the new generation is born

Can we lynch this new generation stat, please?

[AceMarksman]

I believe are somewhat spurious reasons.

What are the reasons that you find spurious?

[AceMarksman]

ort, you're slinging dirt around. If I wasn't about to fall asleep right now, I would work through that post. I will in a few hours.

[AceMarksman]

'm almost ready to drop a hammer, but I'd rather let somebody else do it.
Because there are many other lynches we have other than ort that are much, much better.

FoS: AC

Soft support of a wagon go.

[AceMarksman]

I don't really have an opinion on Ace, Rishi, or Looker.

vote:ace

1) I really, REALLY hope you meant ac#### right there, not me.
2) Kinetic is fairly scummy at the moment, so
3)

Vote: kinetic

[AceMarksman]

actually, looking at ACfan's first post of the day, I'll have to

Unvote, Vote: ac####fan

.

Reasons:
1) the apoth claim
2) WIT

[AceMarksman]

Also, it seems to me that, while Kinetic has been scummier overall, AM hasn't really tried to contribute much, and several of his posts have been very scummy. I also don't like his flipflop from voting kinetic to me based solely off of one post.

1) Your vote is pure OMGUS
2) you think kinetic is scummier than me, yet you vote me? What? Kinetic even has a bigger wagon on him then I do. I think AC and Kinetic are the remaining scum
3) WiT means Woe is town.

[AceMarksman]

1)Baseless? What are you smoking (and I want some )? I voted you in 1078 and you voted me in 1083, your next post after mine. How is it not OMGUS?
2)Ok, what posts have given you a scum vibe? I want quotes and links.

[AceMarksman]

why do you think it's staged?

[AceMarksman]

What's your point?

[AceMarksman]

There's scum on it. He self-voted. Scum loves this. Of AceMarksman, Kast, zwetschenwasser, DrippingGoofball, ortolan, ac1983fan, AceMarksman is the player that most jumped on the self vote to add his own.

1) I wasn't the only player to voice heavy suspicion of this.
2) I had my vote on him prior to his self vote
3) do you think I'm scum?

[AceMarksman]

After I post my notes, if you used your plague on Night 1, but your target did not die today AND did not have access to an Apothecary card, that is worth mentioning since it practically means someone protected your target (probably his scumbuddy).

Why did you single me out for this suggestion? I'm not the only player with a plague, you know.

[AceMarksman]

Speaking of which, I wonder why you're still alive, Kast. Why hasn't the mafia killed you???

I asked this same exact question in another game. Both kast and I were town. It would seem the mafia doesn't like killing him. :/

[AceMarksman]

yes, kast. Your card notes would help a great deal, as I have some suspicions about certain people that will be helped with that. I'm not going to voice them now, as they're not concrete, but a card list will help.

[AceMarksman]

Zwet, you're stupid.

[AceMarksman]

No, bad AC. I want quotes. This whole "I have found scummy things in his posts" thing that you're trying to pull is BS unless you can produce said posts with analysis.

[AceMarksman]

*ahem*

with analysis.

What, in particular, do you find scummy?

[AceMarksman]

Here you start a wagon on zwet that occurs at the end of page 6 (which i have previously noted was a scummy wagon). The fact that zwet would double a plague is not necessarily scummy..

No, it's not scummy. At that point in the game 1) we didn't have another good wagon and 2) zwet had the ability to kill two townies. I already pointed out later that his card choice was scummy (but this was made less scummy by kast's card analysis. Speaking of which

I really would like to see that list, please

)

This is either horrible town thinking or scum trying to get an easy mislynch thinking...

Taken out of context, then yes, the quoted, erm, quote is scummy. In context, however, it was near the first quote of yours. At that time, I thought that zwet was a good lynch. This quote was a fluff post (and no, a little fluff isn't scummy, don't even start)

Says the person who earlier wanted to lynch zwet because of this very reason...

Again, you take things out of context. At this point in the game, there were better wagons than the zwet wagon, yet ABR was tunneling heavily on him. This is not to say that I had no suspicion of zwet, and it's also not to say that I was talking ABR out of his zwet crusade. I just wanted to know if his only reason for suspecting zwet was his card choice.

I'm not going to go through the other ones because I feel like I'm repeating myself. Acscum, next time you try and make a case on me, put effort into it. It's really annoying answering for a page of quotes taken out of context or from fluff posts. Thanks.

[AceMarksman]

Can people please actually defend yourself against points brought up against you?

you call 1167 not defending myself?

[AceMarksman]

Ok, now that you've posted your list, I did not use my plague night one.

[AceMarksman]

10.) Rishi
11.) Looker (rep. ZEEnon (rep. Slicey))

Mod: these players need a prod

[AceMarksman]

I don't like how both Kast and DGB both said they were suspicious of me without specific reasons

You've lurked all game. There's not much that we can draw reason from with you. I would like you to list all players in order from scummiest to least scummy with reasons why.

[AceMarksman]

I don't like kasts' above post at all.

I think I'm already probably the top NK target tonight (unless perhaps I'm plagued and scum think I'll be dying anyway).

This kind of WIFOM is the worst. It prevents town from lynching kast because he thinks he will be the night kill and prevents us from lynching him if he is.

If this is the case, then I propose that AceM or ACFan pass 1/2 Cop card(s) to me tonight. I will use the card which completes my other 1/2 Cop and can investigate one target.

Which would prevent either of us from getting a cop investigation. This would be a great scum move.

First scummy thing I've seen kast do, so it only gets a

FoS:Kast IGMEOY

[AceMarksman]

Anyway, I didn't specify, but the point of my claim was to discuss whether AceM and ACFan agree that it would be good to pass me a 1/2 cop card tonight.

I guess AceM is a no on that front.

I've thought about it, and it's a good idea. I'll pass my 1/2 cop I guess.

[AceMarksman]

I don't like how both Kast and DGB both said they were suspicious of me without specific reasons

You've lurked all game. There's not much that we can draw reason from with you. I would like you to list all players in order from scummiest to least scummy with reasons why.

Not lurking. Busy. How many times do I have to say that? And your name isn't Kast or DGB. Most scummy = zwet. Told you that.

Also, zwet, you're not voting for ANYONE. And you've expressed plenty of suspicion. I don't think you're in a position to criticize people for not voting.

Vote: zwet

I would like you to list all players in order from scummiest to least scummy

with reasons why.

kthx

Also, what does me not being DGB or Kast have to do with anything?

[AceMarksman]

Deadline looms and no one is at lynch threshold. More votes plz kthx.

[AceMarksman]

kast promised that he would vote for looker when he got replaced a few pages ago or something to that effect.

[AceMarksman]

I don't see how this changes anything at all, and I see no reason to abandon the game because of it.

[AceMarksman]

Well, regardless, I still want to lynch Kinetic or AM, althoguh I'm starting to lean more on AM at this point... But I guess I could go for a zwet lynch if there is no better wagon that comes along.

Soft support of three wagons says what?

[AceMarksman]

DGB is almost certainly high.

[AceMarksman]

V/LA till monday

[AceMarksman]

goddammit kast! I could see rishi as scum but I had you on my towndar almost the entire time *fume*