Mini #764: Notre Dame Mafia, Game Over

[Budja]

Hi,

Vote charter

for posting above me ,

[Budja]

If scum didn't plan for a mass-claim or similar in such a game then they are fools/newbies IMO.

However, I do acknowledge that Kast way over-analysed the situation and have weakened the power of a mass-claim. I am unsure if he realises this or was just trying to be helpful.

Maybe a partial claim could work. Perhaps tracking only the plague cards.

[Budja]

When an event causes both town and mafia to learn information, the town learning a larger quantity than scum does not necessarily mean that the town benefits more than scum. I can give examples if you can't see this for yourself.

I want examples.

[Budja]

But we are claiming cards not people. I don't think your explanation works here.

[Budja]

As someone who supported a massclaim, thats a pretty scummy set of cards .

Why did you take the plague?

[Budja]

Considering I am after you, I can confirm you are not lying about the cards you passed.

@Kinetic, what do you think of this -

It will allow scum to kill dangerous investigative roles and plan around protections.

Kast seems to be making a valid point here.

[Budja]

@Ace, read more carefully, the mafia collect it together as a group. I agree with Kinetic that the mafia should not ever be passed this card.

Anyone else have any opinion on claiming plague?

This.

[Budja]

I was thinking along the lines of zwet but this makes sense.

Could Albert confirm this please?

[Budja]

@Ace, I have posted a decent amount. I was also the one who first suggested the plague claim.

Anyway it is marathon weekend so don't expect much from me for a while.

[Budja]

Nothing wrong with a plague vig as long as they choose their targets sensibly. If Kinetic believes he can do that, I have no problem with it.

Also, I think this is said somewhere earlier, if you change your mind before the kill occurs you can always get the town to use an apothecary. So in some ways it is safer than a vig kill.

Also, I saw no plague cards at all in my draws last night.

[Budja]

@Kast, I don't mind long posts but that is ridiculous. I try and get it read today.

[Budja]

Pure OMGUS vote. I hate walls, but sometimes they do draw scum reactions like this.

Unvote, Vote: Kinetic

eh? Kinetic is not voting for you. How is this OMGUS.

I'm fascinated that the entire case against me is that people don't trust my judgment when using my cards tonight. Seriously, why do you think I even asked for opinions if I didn't care about using them well?

I suspect your meta doesn't help you here. Promise not to use your plague and the town will be happier.

@Kast, re your question to me in your post 2/6.

The reason Ace's "oh shit" could have been a scumslip is that he could have been hiding the fact that he know the mafia could collect 1/4NK together. Such a strong reaction rung false until I saw his next post and explanation.

[Budja]

@Ace, have you played here much. This game is not stagnant, most games go at a similar pace.

@Kast, zwet used the term "scum-slip". Also how is it inaccurate anyway? This is irrelevent anyway as Ace explained it satisfactorily.

[Budja]

But you want to use the "scummy" cards and I (and others ) do not trust you to do so. Not that you have much of a choice now that I look at it.

I suggest you play plague and then double.
No good option for your cards.

[Budja]

meta

[Budja]

@Ort

Ace, read more carefully, the mafia collect it together as a group. I agree with Kinetic that the mafia should not ever be passed this card.

o.O oh shit.

Over-reaction seemed scummy. Just because he thought wrong doesn't provoke this kind of reaction.

No, I passed a 1/4 night kill without reading the rules closer.

Explanation says why he reacted that way. Makes sense to me.

Happy Now?

Actual thoughts later.

[Budja]

Ace comes off impatient and isn't putting up a good defence but my gut says he is clumsy town now.

Zwet is neutral to me. I would like ABR to stop his campaign against zwet and comment on other things too
( ironically, your posts seem to have equal or less content than zwets)

Where is Slicey?

[Budja]

@Ace, zwet does has a point here. You were on his wagon not long ago.

@ ABR, tunnel much? Seriously.

@CrashTestDummie, I assume this is a lurker vote then? Any reason you are so certain of Slicey's scumminess.

Please provide something better than that because your "gut" is not a good reason for me to unvote him.

Why should I defend Ace? I do not rely on any "gut-feeling" (I am usually wrong) and I am definitely not going to try to influence other players with it.

[Budja]

No, no you are not. Zwet has been generally more useful than you so far, why shouldn't we policy lynch you ?

[Budja]

... or maybe we could just ask him not to .

[Budja]

re. my Post 5, I was wanted Kinetic to tell me what he thought of a point in Kast's post. I was lazy, yes Scummy, no.

re. Post 16, yes it was a bit weak but I had promised to post later and felt obliged to do so. But my comment on ABR is not "useless", surely you can see that his campain against zwet is a "little" over the top.

I also have notes of more than one occasion where Budja defended AceMarkman for no apparent reason after a lazy early attack. I sense possible scum-buddies.

Now lets make this clear. I never intended to defend Ace as such. I was asked why I thought that one of Ace's posts could have been scummy but then wasn't several times and was attempting to explain myself. No-one is attacking Ace over that post anyway.

@Ort, I have neither rat nor nk cards.

[Budja]

@mod: note sig

[Budja]

Ah, give it a rest Charter.

Removing random vote -

unvote

.

[Budja]

I'll get a post out before I leave.

[Budja]

I don't think telling Zwet to use Plague, then Double is the most responsible way to use the cards.

Its either that or Rat then Double. It is the best option unless Zwet wants to double either rat or plague (bad) or use both (also bad). Playing the double second allows him to double a card in his second draft. It logically the best choice.

I don't understand the "This." Please explain.

Just showing that I agreed with the quote and wanted too hear peoples responses to it.

It is possible that Budja was looking for an easy mislynch target.

Ace is an easy target. If I was looking for a mislynch, I would be on his wagon now.

My top suspect at the moment are ABR for extreme tunnelling on zwet (easy to get away with due to zwet's meta) and his posts have been very, very slim on content.

vote:ABR

[Budja]

1. I don't want Zwet to double plague. Two many plague kills are unwise and I don't really trust zwet to vig that much.

2. If he Plagues then doubles then he could use the double for a likely better purpose if he gets better cards next draw.

This is largely irrelevant discussion anyway. I offered my advice to zwet, whether he follows it or not is up to him.

[Budja]

But it would be easy to place my vote on Ace. He does look like an "easy lynch" to me or at least an easy lynch to push.
How is this scummy? Its just my observation of the situation.

You wanted me to tell you why I posted my view on Ace, correct? Ace had already been considered scummy by a few people. I thought it sensible to give my view of him. I have a "gut-feeling" that Ace is clumsy town, is stating this going to make you all drop your cases? I think not.

[Budja]

Back. I have a lot to read so this is simply a defence post for now.

Ace is an easy target. If I was looking for a mislynch, I would be on his wagon now.

Ummmm, how do you know Ace is a mislynch? He was looking like a damn fine lynch until I saw this.

Of course I don't. I don't believe Ace is scum, therefore for me to join him wagon would be seeking a mislynch for me (from my perspective). In hindsight, this comment is only good for me if you don't believe both Ace and I to be scum.

(Although I think I will have to finish reading AM properly before I can say if he is still town to me).

You avoided actually addressing my point about 11. You claimed to agree with Zwet about Ace appearing suspicious, but you later clarify that your reason is not actually the same as Zwet's reason. You drop the issue after a general consensus is reached (or you feel that way) that Ace's post in question is not a legitimate reason to suspect him.

I assumed Zwet was thinking the same way as me on this. I never really wanted to raise the issue, I was just asked a lot of questions on it.

Ace's "Oh shit" wasn't a scumtell. It wasn't scummy at all. The fact that after Budja clarifes the mechanic, and then 'agrees' with Zwet seemed pretty bad too.

It is your opinion that the post was not scummy. An overreaction to a very minor situation like Ace's comes off scummy to me. I have seen scum overreact simulary before and that was I initially thought it could be suss.

[Budja]

I just found another thread on the forum showing ABR's "love" of zwet. It seems clear to me now that this vendetta is not just an in-game thing so it is unlikely to be the potentual scum move I was suspecting. That said, I wish you would get over it and just play.

I find AM's behaviour very defensive. The attack on charter was illogical and defence on me was odd to say the least. The biggest thing with AM is that he appears to be trying to look helpful, as the generic questions above show. Maybe I am thinking in circles but he seems too obvious and open to be scum.

I am beginning to feel like I am digging a hole for myself here. Most people are either lurking or looking reasonable to me so I think I will do a more thorough reread.

[Budja]

I could say the same of you . My post above isn't defending you and I don't see how you can read it as such, trying to look townie is scummy. If you didn't like my other "defence" of you that charter and others are pointing out, why didn't you mention this before.

re. your question.
I am finding ABR a lot less scummy, though very anti-town as I say in my post above. I will move my vote when I decide on a better target.

[Budja]

unvote

... as long as ABR's replacement actually participates in the game.

I'm not interacting with DGB. It's a new policy I am enacting across the site. It's regrettable she came into this game, because if her and zwet aren't scum, now it's 5v7, so today would be LYLO.

If that is your policy then I suggest you follow ABR.

Charters AtE fits charter's very certain in himself attitude so far. You should not think so rigidly.

[Budja]

You mean my recent unvote?

1. I haven't been online since you "called me out".
2. I vote, I find additional info out of game, I am uncertain, I unvote. I will still definitely be watching ABR's replacement but I don't feel that a vote is still necessary. No flipfloping.

Wrong zwet, on both cases.

[Budja]

Interesting DGB. But Ort has never been strongly for my lynch, so I would not consider it a notable change in behaviour for him to say I was "possibly innocent".

vote: Rishi

Longish fluff posts with little information, active lurking and scant scumhunting.

[Budja]

So I have to pick a popular bandwagon do I?
Placing a vote isn't noncommittal just because I didn't pick a high profile target.

[Budja]

Interesting DGB. But Ort has never been strongly for my lynch, so I would not consider it a notable change in behaviour for him to say I was "possibly innocent".

vote: Rishi

Longish fluff posts with little information, active lurking and scant scumhunting.

Weak. How is this different from the way that you're playing? And what's making you single me out as opposed to ZEEnon.

By the way guys, I might be around a little bit today, but I am essentially V/LA until Sunday.

Weak Response. ZEEnon has posted once then left, not active lurking at all.
I am not active lurking IMO anyway or posting fluff posts at all. My scumhunting hasn't been up to scratch but then neither has yours.

[Budja]

and btw, DGB is actually 100% guaranteed scum at this point

100% eh? You must be very, very certain then. Any reason for saying this?

i find budja to be somewhat scummy, and with deadline approaching, budja is the only lynch that I will support that is close to becoming a reality.

The deadline isn't really that close. If there was no deadline, would you still be voting for me?

[Budja]

^ obv tunnel vision. You will only accept thing that follow your predefined view.

You never say 100% in mafia unless you are absolutely certain. Ort should know that and so should you.

I will tell you why you all need to be voting DGB tomorrow.

Very cryptic ... and useless.

[Budja]

looking back, I'm starting to suspect zwet a little because of the cards he passed to me. He passed a sanctuary, an apothicary, and a mimic over a rat, plague, and mimic.

... and you didn't happen to mention this earlier why?

[Budja]

unvote, vote charter

.

[Budja]

Well, what else am I meant to do?

[Budja]

townie.

[Budja]

Fine.

1.) 1-Shot Doctor
2.) 1-Shot Mimic
3.) 1-Shot Mimic

[Budja]

I posted them in the order I got them.

[Budja]

@Budja-
To sum, your claims are no Rat, no NK, and a Doctor in Pick #1, Mimic in Pick #2, and Mimic in Pick #3. Your passed cards have been confirmed as non-contradictory.

If we believe your picks, then you are apparently a very altruistic townie. Can you share any reasons for picking Mimic over Apothecary in Pick #2? If you feel it is not harmful, can you share reasons for picking Doctor in Pick #1 (Ort will probably be the only player who can really evaluate that pick vs any other choices you have).

I chose Doc as my other choices were mimic and double and doc seemed the best choice there. the others relyed on my other cards being good.

I chose the mimic because I thought I could mimic the doc which seemed more useful than an apothecary.

... complete lack of desire to defend himself against his impending lynch.

I am very busy right now and I am also being attacked in another game. This does affect my contribution.

[Budja]

3 votes for a charter lynch, 1 to lynch me.

If you let me live, I will protect a player I will declare in thread if I can. If not, I wish you all luck.