Mini 753 - Really Deep South (Game over!)

[Skander]

vote: Korts

First person to post is always scum.

[Skander]

What is the scum reaction that Volkan made in his first post? I've read it over 3 times and I can't see it.

And is everyone voting for Volkan voting seriously?

[Skander]

I now understand the Volkan argument but I'm happier with Malthusis. I dislike how fast the volkan wagon grew.

Unvote, Vote Malthusis

Elvis is right, scum have particular voting habits.

When they're bussing a scumbuddy they make it well known that they were voting them but when they vote innocent townies they tend to want an out or plausible deniability so that when the lynch goes awry it isn't traced back to them.

Malthusis voting Volkan randomly after the "rival bandwagon" comment means it's doubtful that it really is random.

God you people are nuts. I love you all.
Elvis obvious joke comments made if you read the queue line at all.
DGB's weird vote on malth saying EK should know. Well how about sharing with the rest of the class.
Skanders: Welcome to the chaos. Your reaction is interesting. So interesting that if volk does flip scum I would vote you next.
I don't like knee jerk reactions.

Thanks for the welcome.

I don't like the word "interesting". It is very easy to hide behind. What exactly about my reaction do you find so interesting that you would me vote me if volk flips scum?


I also want clarification on DGB's EK comment.

[Skander]

What is the scum reaction that Volkan made in his first post? I've read it over 3 times and I can't see it.

And is everyone voting for Volkan voting seriously?

The above is a weird reaction to BW votes. I see people who panic with votes that are being voted against but not something like this. It's like a protective action on someone for no reason.
I don't know what site you played at here but random BW in a speed game is normal.

Well that would explain it. In the site I play on (MTGSalvation) random BW's are heavily frowned upon. I rarely see anyone get to closer than L-4 or L-3 without someone commenting about a wagon in the random stage and pointing fingers.

[Skander]

I now understand the Volkan argument but I'm happier with Malthusis. I dislike how fast the volkan wagon grew.

Unvote, Vote Malthusis

Elvis is right, scum have particular voting habits.

When they're bussing a scumbuddy they make it well known that they were voting them but when they vote innocent townies they tend to want an out or plausible deniability so that when the lynch goes awry it isn't traced back to them.

Malthusis voting Volkan randomly after the "rival bandwagon" comment means it's doubtful that it really is random.

I'm not getting this, exactly what are you getting at here? I just decided to vote vollkan because he made a good game I was in (Ace Attorney Mafia, great game by the way). It's just a random vote. If you don't like the bandwagon in particular, why don't you complain at the people who took it farther? I only put the second vote on.

I already commented that I didn't like how fast the wagon grew - however it has been cleared up that it is pretty normal around here. My problem with you is different, you are putting your vote on something that has already been called a wagon but you are giving a random reason for your vote.

Neko says: We need a rival bandwagon here (on Volkran).
You come along and vote on that wagon while providing a random vote.

To put it another way, what is the purpose of adding a random explanation to your vote if you are just joining a bandwagon?

Also please don't try and redirect.

[Skander]

I now understand the Volkan argument

So, you agree with Korts?

No. I think Mathusis is scum as I explained in that post. This highly diminishes the chance of you being scum because if he was bussing you he would be more open about it rather than the subtle way he jumped on your wagon.

However I do understand the point that Korts brought up (as opposed to before where I didn't).

I dislike how fast the volkan wagon grew.

Huh? What was so bad about the wagon on me growing quickly?

I dislike fast wagons, the faster a wagon tends to grow the more likely scum are pushing it imo. I realize though that some things that I take for granted as scummy or not I will have to discard seeing as the playstyle and notions of scumminess are different here.

[Skander]

@ Korts and farside: IN your opinons when you see someone claim miller Day 1 does that make them more or less likely to be scum than a random player who has not claimed miller (or does it not change anything)?

[Skander]

@ Korts and farside: IN your opinons when you see someone claim miller Day 1 does that make them more or less likely to be scum than a random player who has not claimed miller (or does it not change anything)?

Depends when the person claimed and how they answer questions under pressure.

Can you elaborate on that? What timing is more likely to be scum and what timing more likely to be town?

@everyone: How predictable is the miller reaction around here? I see that pretty much everyone that responded refernced their own personal beliefs about miller claims. How easy is it for someone to predict the responses that a miller claim will bring?

volkan:

vollkan, is there anything besides omgus behind your vote on me?

My own desire to be amused by casting an ironic "OMGUS-explosion" vote in response to you saying I was being too "defensive" (which, as some of you may know, is a word which sets my scumdar pinging)

Wait so was it serious or not? Did you vote neko since you didn't like the word 'defensive' or was it to amuse yourself?

My reasoning, if you want it, is basically that

a Miller claim is not a viable strategy for scum

- it prevents them from keeping their fake-claim options open and is guaranteed to place them under heightened scrutiny. Moreover, it ensures that the scenario doesn't arise of cop. claiming a guilty, only to be met with a truthful miller claim.

Of course, ABR could still be scum.

And I don't think Miller claims are a towntell.

But I am nonetheless of the view that millers should claim early.

Bold mine. If they are not a viable strategy for scum why isn't it a town tell?

[Skander]

Farside: Can you answer the question I asked you before? What timing of the miller claiming implies town and what timing implies scum?


Where is Volkan?

[Skander]

Volkan: Are you purposely not claiming or was it just an oversight? It sounded like you were going to claim but when I got to the end there was no claim.

[Skander]

No, but why do you want him to claim unnecessarily?

Have I ever told him to claim?

I only expected he would because he said "I'm spilling the beans" [/big drama].

Also, I would have understood the spilling the beans comment if he had said anything else (other than a claim) that I thought was a surprise. As it was, his big revelation was a lead balloon.

Yeah this was why I thought he was planning on claiming, he said he was going to spill the beans but then didn't really reveal anything.

Malthusis is looking real good right now. He asked for clarification as to why I was voting him way back on page 3, after which I explained and EK elaborated as well. Since then he has said nothing.

[Skander]

ok guys, abr is lying about his roleclaim, time for a lynch

I thought about this and you're definitely right.

Unvote, Vote ABR

miller has no need to talk to the mod and get annoyed at him.

[Skander]

This might be premature since we don't know ABR's alignment, but I did a reread back at the events surrounding ABR's miller claim.


If ABR flips scum, farside doesn't look too good to me. She started asking ABR some questions but then quickly backed off and turned on DGB for suggesting most miller claims are false.

====

DGB and korts don't change much - they both stated general opinons about miller claims, DGB saying miller claims are usually false, korts saying he's never seen a fake claim (although korts looks slightly worse for afterwards saying that he doesn't think miller claims are a tell either way). Volkan is in a similar situation, saying that millers should always claim early but that ABR could well be scum.

====

Charter comes as off bad to me.

I will throw my two cents in here. Seen way more fake miller claims than real ones.

I don't even know what this discussion is for. No one is arguing that ABR is scum because he claimed miller. You guys are letting vollkan off the hook. FOS those arguing this.

He says he's seen way more fake claims than real but then says that we should ignore ABR claiming miller and get back to Volkan.

No one is arguing that ABR is scum because he claimed miller. You guys are letting vollkan off the hook. FOS those arguing this.

Very good point charter. I will have to come back on this later.

Scumbuddy post? I'd say if ABR flips scum, then Charter is a probable scumbuddy.

====

Am I dreaming? After charter (who says most miller claims he has seen are fake) said we need to get back to vollkan, korts quickly agrees, attacking DGB for maintaining that most miller claims she has seen are scum, but lets charter get away with it.

No, DGB, I never said that a miller claim=confirmed town. To me it makes no immediate difference regarding alignment. I don't "trust millers with my money" but neither do I trust anyone else in this game with it.

So get on with actually relevant scumhunting instead of going off on tangential policy lynches.

korts could possibly be a third scum but I'm not sure.

====

roflcopter says quite early that miller is not a likely role in this game. He's also the one to restart the ABR conversation. He looks good to me.

[Skander]

Are we waiting for anything in particular? I don't understand why neko isn't lynched yet.

I thought we were waiting for a claim, or do people not claim at L-2 here?

[Skander]

Yeah I suppose, but I don't see how you can ignore his ties to ABR regardless of his claim.

True. And seeing how he's away for a bit I guess it's not worth waiting for.

Vote Neko

[Skander]

Unvote

DGB, I don't see what you are saying about copter's posts proving that neko is lying.

[Skander]

I get it now, nice work by farside.

Worse, neko said he protected a fake claiming miller, but he failed to protect an obv power role.

neko, have you used your ability yet today?

This sounds like copter trying to remind neko to use his claimed protecting ability on him. Then neko neglected to protect copter. I don't believe neko.

[Skander]

Sorry for not being around much.

I don't really get the last couple of posts but I don't think they're that important.

Charter doesn't look to good to me. I still think he had ties with ABR (see my post 233).

korts didn't come off as great to me either to me but I'm liking tajo better.

[Skander]

So it's official that vollkan is scum. Lets go people.

Yeah, I have to agree with this.

Vote volkan

And the korts/charter theory just got blown out of the water.

[Skander]

Sorry for my absence. Hopefully this post will make up for it.

First things first, Farside, you are 100% town in my eyes. I understand what you are saying and I'm still thinking about it - it's tough. I've only got a little time left to decide though.


IMO Charter is scum along with one of either kison/Carn Carn

Here is my Charter case:

elvis is a good wagon and I'd join if vollkan hadn't made an obvious scumreaction in his first post.

This is actually really true. I hadn't actually read the other random votes before laying the perfect trap.

unvote, vote vollkan

I have found "actually" to be a moderately useful scumtell. As in he is really thinking this is not not true and subconsciously reflects that by using the word "actually".

I will throw my two cents in here. Seen way more fake miller claims than real ones.

I don't even know what this discussion is for. No one is arguing that ABR is scum because he claimed miller. You guys are letting vollkan off the hook. FOS those arguing this.

He's seen way more fake more miller claims than real but... he just let's ABr off the hook.

Waiting for suspicion of him to blow over. Not gonna happen while sheriff charter is in town.

Tries to get everyone back onto the Volkan wagon.

I don't understand why Korts unvoted vollkan. I think he had a high chance to be scum and then we'd know who all his buddies are because he was being "heavily bussed".

why is there a discussion going on about what would happen were someone to claim miller at lynch -1?

Good question. This is twice now farside and DGB have overrun the thread with pointlessness.

223- neko-ABR scumteam

unvote, vote ABR

just in case.

He votes after ABR has already been hammered. Wants desperatley to look like he was on the wagon because he's worried about it will look when ABR flips scum.

Also in the same post starts setting up the next day's mislynch.

Are we waiting for anything in particular? I don't understand why neko isn't lynched yet.

"Quick, lynch neko before he has a chance to claim!"

When I ask him about waiting for a claim he says:

Yeah I suppose, but I don't see how you can ignore his ties to ABR regardless of his claim.

Sounds pretty good so I vote Neko. But then guess what?

Actually, I need to think about this. I've only ever seen a jailkeeper live past N1 in one game, and it turned out to win the game for town.

unvote

Huh Charter, what claim would make you forget his ties with ABR? Jailkeeper apparently. Or maybe y'know, you just were pushing for a lynch before he claimed and were willing to say whatever was needed to get it.

It's totally farside+vollkan.

vote vollkan

farside??? Why farside?

Don't think it will behoove town to answer this right this second.

Good imagination, but it's purely meta. I don't think it's fruitful for me to argue that because farside is making sense, she probably isn't town, right now.

Err, what?

"farside is scum"
"Why?"
"doesn't make sense to answer now"
"no, tell us"
"ok, because she makes sesne"

I should have just said vollkan was scum and left it at that. THIS IS WHY ITS DUMB TO DISCUSS WHY I THINK FARSIDE IS SCUM RIGHT NOW. There's zero case to anyone else.

Yes. Yes you should've. But then you wouldn't have been able to smear farside's name.

Charter says he's 100% confirmable. How? Like this:

Fine, target me with your action two days in a row, I'm a commuter. I can commute every other day. Now, can I commute tomorrow or not? Any bets scum?

Okay so he's now 100% confirmable.

Ugh? I just checked the wiki. It's half-time nightkill immunity. The only players that can confirm you are scum. And that's grossly inconsistent with your statement that any player targeting you would confirm you as town.

Shit, I thought it was all actions because that's what the commuter was last game I was in with one, but I just checked my role PM and it's just kills. So yeah, I guess it's not confirmable.

How does this make you 100% town?

Because one day you'd get no result, and the other you would, which would be a commuter, and I've never heard of a scummuter. But only kills will fail.

Oh, but wait looks like you messed up on your claim.

Answer me these questions three. Why am I scum? What will you do once I flip town? Why is farside town?

Someone's getting a little scared, realizing that his attacks against farside are going unheeded.

vote no lynch

Yeah, wouldn't you love to live another day?

My bad, I haven't been thinking.

Oh you've been thinking alright, just not like a townie would.

Vote Charter

[Skander]

Charter's claim is complete rubbish. Everything else I've said is just gravy. I like the last ditch attempt to convince us that it was real:

I can't wait to start the "Should NK immune town players claim vanilla?" MD thread after this game is over.

You're trying a little too hard though.

[Skander]

Not so happy with my play here. I started off good but then the game hit some slow pockets where no one would post and I kind of lost interest and lurked around - something I almost never do. I was going to answer the last round of questions but I knew the game was over anyway.

For the record I didn't post anything about what farside gave me because she gave me a track that wouldn't resolve until end of day.

I think me and DGB got too confidant toward the end, and you guys almost caught us for it. I think if the kill had been delayed a couple of hours you guys would have won.

Good game by everyone. I found everyone to be enjoyable to play with, with the notable exception of ABR. He pulled the miller gambit without warning us and then proceeded to threaten us with lynches should we not comply with his plans. Luckily the mod let us prevail and in the end it all turned out nicely letting me and DGB come out smelling like roses after the ABR death.

Overall it was pretty fun except when I lost interest due to no one posting and stuff. It was also different than what I'm used to so that's something I had to get into.