Mini 740 - Communiqu├® Mafia 2: Game Over and the Winner is..

[Juls]

Oh first!

Vote: Second person who posts....

[Juls]

Unvote. Vote: Ectomancer

[Juls]

I am sure this should go without saying but you never know.

In this game more than most we need to take a great deal of care with lynches because it is a no reveal game. A lynch gives us no information. We should always lynch the most scummy IMO.

[Juls]

Wow there is a large amount of cutsie avatars in this game.

[Juls]

Unvote. Vote: hohum

Man you have a depressing name!

[Juls]

I don't like this plan. It reduces the ability of town to communicate outside the presence of mafia by 50% while it only reduces what the mafia can do by a slim margin. If mafia want to communicate during the day they can form codes to speak among us. They don't need a day communique to communicate with each other so they will likely use it to confuse town more than anything.

I'm not liking the suggestion, tbh. But, I am going to do this in all my games in which I play with Reecer because he is completely useless and distracting. Please just meta him for 2 minutes and you will agree.

Unvote. Vote Reecer6

[Juls]

I have been at work all day and just getting home. I am one of the ones who sent Roffman a PM but not the one he quoted in game. It kinda sucks that I am being forced to reveal this because I didn't sign it because I wanted to make sure I could trust him first. Roffman can back me up on this because I told him my role and asked him a question about it to be answered discretely in thread. Since I didn't completely understand your answer 100% roffman, can you use your communique to respond.

So, I am the PM he saw as townie, I will not be able to go with your plan today even though I still object to it. So if you want to pair me up, then make my partner roffman so he can respond to me.

[Juls]

EBWOP:

Unvote.

I am in less of a bad mood today.

[Juls]

and if the right one turns up scum,

You DO realize that this is a no reveal game right? In other words, no one will be flipping anything, we will just get a list of players who are dead, not their roles.

[Juls]

One more thing (sorry for the multiple posts)...what is to stop scum from choosing another scum as their partner? Since I am the only one who objects, I would like me or Roffman to make the pairs.

[Juls]

That makes sense...but I can't send one cause I already have and I would like roffman to respond to me if at all possible.

[Juls]

Kinda hard to be detailed in 20 words.

[Juls]

What is with me and multiple posts in a row today?!?! I never do this....


@roffman, do you think I should full claim my role in thread to get everyone's opinion?

[Juls]

If both messages were unsigned, then I still have some suspicions about Juls.

Have suspicions of me if you want but this should not be one of them. I did not sign my communique because I wasn't for sure if I could trust roffman or not. By just telling him my role I did not reveal who I was. He would only know that this role exists in the game.

What you need to do with your list is just make it one big chain with me at the end, like this:
Ectomancer --sends to--->roffman
roffman--sends to---RossWilliam
RossWilliam--sends to--->hohum
hohum--sends to--->houseofcards
houseofcards--sends to--->Reecer6
Reecer6--sendsto--->Budja
Budja--sends to--->Braeden
Braeden--sends to--->dorvaan
dorvaan--sends to--->magicrabbit
magicrabbit--sends to--->Casey
Casey--sends to--->Juls

[Juls]

All I did is take Casey's list and move me to the bottom and make it one big circle. I can't send a PM, that is the only reason I put myself at the bottom. Nothing I have said is scummy. Just because I sent a PM to another player somehow that makes me untrustworthy? I don't want roffman to quote my PM because it has my role in it. And seeing as I have already admitted that it makes me very suspicious of you for rolefishing!

I really hate this plan beyond day 1. I think it is a good idea to catch whoever sent the other PM to roffman but don't expect me to follow it day 2.

[Juls]

This was my communique to roffman with certain parts censored to protect my role:

Townie [rolename]. I [my action]. [my question]? Answer me discretely in post. Will reveal self later if trust.

[Juls]

@Reecer: No. Bad! That reveals roles to scum and who they are assigned to. That makes scum's job so much easier. Reecer, are you just playing on mafiascum to spoil games? I am in two games with you and I have read your other ones. In EVERY game you are saying ridiculous things or things that make no sense.

@Ectomancer: I sent a note to roffman because I wanted to get an answer to a question about my role because it isn't standard. It is not that I didn't understand my role, I wanted some advise about it. I went ahead and sent the communique because I didn't think I would have anything else on D1 to send to someone. It is pretty stupid that you think this is somehow suspicious, but whatever. Furthermore, revealing my particular role to scum means nothing because there isn't really much they can do about it. And being that they didn't know my name, they wouldn't be able to target me for it. But thanks to you, scum now know I have a role that is not vanilla.

@Budja: Yes, it is unfortunate that I had to step forward but I would rather be in control of my own quote instead of letting someone else do it.

@Casey: That order/configuration is fine with me is fine with me.

Vote: Ectomancer

For the following reasons:
1) rolefishing
2) baiting Roffman to try to reveal MORE about my role then I have already posted in my censored quote.
3) trying to eliminate town's day communiques.

[Juls]

Why don't you just not involve me at all since you know that I have sent my PM. I find the suspicions of me ridiculously stupid. I send a PM therefore I am scum? I asked roffman because he was giving a few townie vibes to me with his posts 33 and 36. And the question I asked didn't matter if he were scum or town. Can you explain what motivations as scum I would have for sending a message asking advice of someone and not revealing myself?

If you think it is a bad town play, that's fine, I don't agree, but that's fine. But saying it is suspicious is stupid.

[Juls]

You are, however, acting rather aggressive and defensive over my "slight suspicion."

I have like 3 people interrogating me about this and Ectomancer is treating me like I am scum with his comments like

in case I need to say it expressly, I would chose a player at random to decide the process for this before trusting you to do it

and

Roffman can be the judge of what to divulge as he feels it is merited, not you

So my main frustration is with Ectomancer. Also, he is pressing for more information about my message. I have given all my message without revealing my role/action. The fact that he wants more is suspicious.

I apologize if I am coming across as defensive. I just think this subject should be dropped because I have already revealed more than I ever wanted to about my role. And I am slightly annoyed that I was forced to reveal any of it.

[Juls]

Ectomancer, get off your high horse. You have no right to talk to me like a child no matter what your suspicions of me are. I will send my day communique to anyone I damn well choose. If you can convince 6 other people that doing so is scummy then I don't want to be a part of this game anyway.

[Juls]

And what should I be making a case against Ecto? Since I know all you are doing is baiting me, what exactly IS your case on me? Lay it out there....and while you are at it, back it up with a vote. Otherwise, why don't you stop antagonizing me. If you don't have a case on me stop the shenanigans because you are just being distracting.

[Juls]

@Ectomancer: I am fine with the plan for today because it serves a purpose. But, you proposed this plan before it had a purpose. That is when I objected to it and I object to it on D2.

[Juls]

I feel sorry for our mod...he is about to be bombarded my messages I think.

[Juls]

BSG, got your message. Password: Dedede

[Juls]

Hohum, you were the one that was targeted by the "one-shot cop". The proposal is to kill both of you so that we are guaranteed to catch scum. If the cop is legit, you are scum. If the cop is not legit, he/she is scum. Therefore, we trade 1 town for 1 scum.

[Juls]

Wow...yeah my vote stands.

[Juls]

@BSG: The first sentence before the period...yes, I agree. I am not sure I understand the rest because there is a double negative. I am not sure if that is intentional or not.

[Juls]

Um...Reecer is not confirmed and MagicRabbit is not confirmed yet either. Lets slow this reecer wagon down a bit.

[Juls]

Sorry for the extended away. Just a thought...what if Ectomancer (or mafia in general) have two communiques per night? Ectomancer could have cooked up this whole thing. He may have sent one communique to Roffman knowing that we would be able to "complete the chain" and thus put suspicion on Roffman for lieing. He would also know that Roffman would have to come forward. I don't know if Roffman is lieing or not but I think Ectomancer could be lieing as well. I never agree with the whole idea of "weeding out the mafia" communiques so they can't talk to each other during day.

Just chew on it. I am not sure of its plausibility myself but it is something to think about.

[Juls]

Please direct me to where it was discussed? On reread I didn't see it.

[Juls]

First, I said I wasn't sure it was plausible but it is something to think about. Second, my hypothetical did not involve my message at all. I was suggesting that you possibly sent the fake cop claim. My message has no relevance in this hypothetical.

@Roffman...Can you tell us the time and date that you received the cop claim communique?

On a side-note, I really hate the tone of this game. I have never been apart of such a hostile game (and I quit once before because of people being rude). It is a major turn off and it will lead to inactivity. I wish that all parties involved would settle down. The confrontational tone is unnecessary.

[Juls]

I had already received two communiques before this plan was proposed, one from someone who I think is town and i'm not going to reveal that information.

Your story doesn't align very well for receiving it on Friday, February 6th at 11:13a.m.

Unvote. Vote roffman

Plan was proposed February 5th - 1:53p.m. I sent mine on February 4th at 8:30p.m. but not sure when the mod sent it. There is no way you could have received both before the plan was proposed. Either you were lieing then or you are lieing now.

[Juls]

EBWOP ...I didn't blatantly note it but in case it isn't obvious, 12:44a.m. occurs before 11:13a.m. Therefore he claimed to receive it earlier than when he just claimed to have received it.

[Juls]

Please replace out Reecer...you are beyond useless anyway.

@roffman...If you had only received my message, why did you say you had received two before the plan was hatched?

[Juls]

But now you are basically saying that whoever sent the cop message sent it AFTER the plan was proposed...doesn't seem like a very smart move.

[Juls]

Sydney Austrailia = +16 hours from Eastern

I sent my message to Roffman:

Eastern Time: February 4, 2009 @ 9:30 p.m.
Sydney Time: February 5, 2009 @ 1:30 p.m.

Plan was proposed:

Eastern Time: February 5, 2009 @ 1:53 p.m.
Sydney Time: February 6, 2009 @ 5:53 a.m.

Roffman Objects to Plan First Time:

Eastern Time: February 5, 2009 @ 5:05 p.m.
Sydney Time: February 6, 2009 @ 9:05 a.m.

Roffman Claims to have received the cop message:

Eastern Time: February 5, 2009 @ 7:13 p.m.
Sydney Time: February 6, 2009 @ 11:13 a.m.

(note: dahill made a post in forums @ 6:44 p.m. eastern on February 5th so it is plausible he sent messages at the time roffman claimed)

Roffman Objects to Plan Second Time w/ Cop Quoted Message:

Eastern Time: February 6, 2009 @ 1:44 a.m.
Sydney Time: February 6, 2009 @ 5:44 p.m.

This is the timeline I see....I still see a couple conflicting ideas here...one from roffman and one from the alleged cop:

1) Roffman first said that he received both messages before the plan was proposed...now he is back tracking and saying he received one before (from me), one after.
2) The cop (based on rofffman's info) would have had to send the communique after the plan was proposed. That doesn't make much sense to me.

[Juls]

Hohum, I find your agrument against Reecer reaching and pretty scummy. I have mentioned it before in this thread that Reecer behaves this way in all his games. In my other game he was in, he did the same thing. He was lynched as a mason. His behavior is a null tell because he is not participating at all. (

for mod to read too

) I really don't think it would be unethical to replace him because he is not participating. Just because he comes on and posts here and there does not make him any more useful than if he didn't post at all. It deserves a warning at the very least.

Unvote

. I am not through being suspicious of roffman yet but my suspicions of hohum just grew a lot. I think a re-read is in order.

[Juls]

Now you are contradicting yourself hohum...you are saying now that you think Reecer is a policy lynch. In post 260 you were advocating his lynch based on scumminess.

[Juls]

I will reread in a couple days...I have a test that I am studying for right now. I will get to it ASAP.

[Juls]

@Ectomancer: My unvote was a measure to prevent roffman from being quick lynched. I may very well put my vote right back on him but I wanted to allow for the proper amount of discussion and do a little more reading on hohum BEFORE there is a lynch. It was precautionary.

Since I am so tired of your accusations and I have went back and forth about full claiming my role anyway...I am just going to claim now and get it over with.

I am a town postman. I have 3 packages and I can deliver one per night. I don't know what is in them.

That's my role. My question to roffman was did he think I should send it to someone I believed to be town or someone I believed to be scum. I asked this simple question because his answer would have been opinion only. In fact, if he elaborated on his opinion, I might get some information out of it.

He answered in one of his posts that he thought I should send to town.

My guess is the role is akin to a skitzo and the packages contain a bomb, a stethoscope, and a magnifying glass or some things like that which means the recipient would either die or get a one shot doc or cop ability. That is all speculation though. So, if you want to try to make me roffman's partner have fun. That's the role town will lose if I die. Do with it what you will, I am pretty much over the attitudes in this game anyway and a lynch would almost be a blessing.

[Juls]

OK hohum, you have already called one person a bitch in the thread...I don't like that. I really don't enjoy playing in games with people who talk like you or act like you. And Ectomancer is driving the game while others follow him around like a little puppy dog...it's sad really that people can't think on their on.

@BSG: Here is my full communique

Townie postman. I send packages. To town or scum? Answer me discretely in post. Will reveal self later if trust.

[Juls]

No, I am not trying to cause drama. I am telling everyone my role. You can do with it what you will. You're claiming I am trying to be a martyr...guess what...there are no martyr's in this game because no one will know what I am until endgame anyway. I thought I would get an opinion about my role, I sent my communique....its done.

It's unfortunate that it got drug out like this and shame on town for letting Ectomancer exploit the system. He took away town's ability to communicate ib D1...are you all blind to that? I will grant that after roffman piped up about the cop message it had a utility but prior to that it did NOT. It is ridiculous to think the day communique benefited scum more than it did town.

[Juls]

You've also built a case against roffman, but without Ecto's plan (which really morphed into Casey's plan BTW, with input from some other people as well) we wouldn't have been able to expose him -- yet you still claim that he's leading us around.

Answered this already...

[quote ="Juls 283"] I will grant that after roffman piped up about the cop message it had a utility but prior to that it did NOT.[/quote]

-----

I didn't say you were trying to cause drama, I said you were trying to dig up old drama instead of addressing the issue at hand. Are you going to revert to the "hohum is an asshole" defense every time I make a decent point? I'm not going to take your flamebait, sorry.

First, my comment was not directed at you when I made my comment although I would be lying if I said I wasn't including you in the people with bad attitudes. So I wasn't giving you "flamebait" I was responding to you and giving you example of the attitude I don't like...but this is going off on a tangent...my point was...I don't care what you guys do with this information. If you lynch me, fine. If you don't fine. I won't be heartbroken either way. So please get off this subject.

If you want to talk about something, discuss my claim. It is my role, I did not make it up...ask me anything you want about it...I have nothing to hide now. The only thing I forgot to mention in the initial claim is I can't send packages to myself. I can probably confirm this role pretty easily by sending a package to someone at night. It is pretty telling you would still not believe me considering it is a confirmable role.

[Juls]

EBWOP...sorry for the broken tag...I should have previewed.

[Juls]

Your reason for not believing me is because this role didn't exist in Communque 1? That's pretty weak. Again...this is a confirmable role...what is your reason for not believing me?

[Juls]

Scum already knew I had a "role" (i.e. I am not vanilla). So it was likely I would be a target anyway. Plus, I am really clueless as to how I should handle this role...it is a double edged sword in a sense. It could deliver good, or it could deliver bad...and I don't know what I am delivering so I don't know how to handle it. I did not claim out of pressure. I toyed with the idea earlier (I even asked roffman in thread if he thought I should full-claim...he never answered). I just felt that if Ectomancer was going to start putting me as a scumbuddy to roffman it was better to go ahead and get it out there.

As far as alignment, I see no way I can confirm alignment. My role specifically says I am town...that's all I know to tell you on that one.

[Juls]

There are three problems with what you say Budja.

First, I am not certain those things I mention are in my packages...that is speculation. Second, by targetting someone I think to be scum...if that person IS scum I am relying on mafia to verify my role. That is not a promising scenario. Third, I asked the moderator if I would get any sort of information about what I sent after I sent it and he told me I would not. So that means I have to rely on who got the package to tell me what they got.

[Juls]

I'm not saying that I am not going to do what Budja suggests, I am only saying that the things I list are the problems with the scenario. I think there will be pros and cons to every scenario...I just want to make sure it is thought through and we choose the best route to go.

[Juls]

Nope Ectomancer...I am not letting you choose my target nor have any part in the decision. I find you to be very scummy as it is. I will be choosing my own target thank you very much. You already try to control every part of this game...you aren't going to control this part.

[Juls]

List of potential roles? It does not exist...the first Communique game however is here:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5243

You will have to go to post 1917 (page 77) to get the list of roles from that game.

[Juls]

Why shadow Dorvann? Why not roffman?

[Juls]

Also Juls, you may want to send your package where you want, but you have little choice in the matter if town decides where to send it. You'll do it or be lynched.

I will take all suggestions into consideration, but ultimately I will be deciding. If you choose to lynch me for that then it is your loss.

Also, I will say again...I unvoted as a precaution. I saw a lot of votes headed roffman's way and I wanted to wait until all discussion was exhausted in case scum decided to hop on (if they weren't already). That paired with my rise in suspicions of hohum, it was better to be safe than sorry. It is a perfectly legitimate reason for unvoting.

I haven't had time to do a reread yet as I stated earlier. I am trying to keep up with the thread because I don't like getting behind, so a reread is second priority. I also have another game approaching deadline as well.

Speaking of which....I have seen chatter about it but not sure if I have actually seen a date...

@mod: when is our deadline

[Juls]

Well, if you are town it would be your loss as well. I don't see why you would cost us in order to be obstinate.

You answered this yourself when you said...

I realize you don't like me controlling things, but realize that I don't currently trust anyone else to do it.

I don't trust that scum won't try to insert themselves into the decision. Also, I don't want scum to know who I am sending it to. My decision is very pro-town because I know I am town and know I will make a decision in the best interest of the town.

My thoughts on Roffman are unchanged but I think it is the weakest of the scenarios that have been discussed. I would feel much better with the scenario in which we knew who sent the fake communique and be able to lynch both that person and hohum for a guaranteed scum lynch. If we were at deadline, however, based on what is before me today, I would choose to lynch Roffman. I am going to reread tomorrow and see if I see anything from hohum. I also want to reread Roffman and see if I see any links between the two other than the obvious mystery communique.

[Juls]

Juls couldn't have given it to anyone. If she did, she would also know who sent in the cop claim. If she did, she would need to message someone tonight saying who that person was so that the knowledge isn't lost in case she dies, and unfortunately, she would also have to say in the same message who the package was sent to. That puts an even bigger target on her back.

I can only send packages at night...this game had a day start. I have not sent anything yet (except for my communique to roffman).

The only chink in it is that the original game has 2nd communiques given out for every day, but I think that could be covered by having a backup for it.
If history holds true, I think Juls will be informed of the loss of the role (hard to be sure a line was crossed), and the backup will be activated tonight or tomorrow.

You lost me here?


============

Exists, doesn't exist, in another dimension...That conversation is not relevant to the game. What started it was...but it's off on a tangent now.

As promised, I re-read hohum. I don't see enough to warrant a vote or anything at this point.

Also, in reflection, I am not going to put my vote back on roffman yet. Ectomancer is right. If we are going to lynch someone, we need to get some sort of justification/confirmation that we are making a valid choice. In a no reveal game we won't get that pretty stamp that says scum next to someone's name. So lynching roffman based on what is out there right now isn't really going to give us what we need. I am glad we don't have to worry about a deadline now because it will give us a chance to fillibuster it out!!! (since politics has been brought up)

Vote: don_johnson

...for old times sake.

...
Nah, just kidding...

Unvote

...Welcome to the game...if you thought I was tough to handle...wait until you get aload of these guys!

[Juls]

@Casey...mod changed the rule.. He said he would only set a deadline as he saw fit...so this is an open ended day until he decides to impose a deadline. See post 356.

@Ectomancer...that sucks if it is right but it only applied to the doctor and cop before. That's clearly a more powerful role than mine. Plus mine has potential pros and cons whereas cops/docs are heavily in the pro column. Regardless...I thought you had little to no knowledge of the first game early in the day...you were saying that you had no idea that a second communique could exist yet you knew enough detail to push Roffman for my role information and not me to protect my role? Seems like you are contradicting yourself here.

[Juls]

If we had a deadline I would be onboard for a no lynch...but with no deadline we have more time to work this out. We do have something to go on....we have the possibility that roffman is lying, we have the possibility that someone has a second communique, and we have the possibility that scum were back to back in the list. We can explore these things a little more before we make a decision to no lynch.

[Juls]

Just want to check in before being prodded...I have 10 minutes before class and I will catch up tonight.

[Juls]

Falacy Alert!

A no lynch isn't going to net us any MORE information than a lynch will, and we'll be in better shape.

Given that a lynch will literally not reveal anything to us it is important that we have a high level of confidence that the person we are lynching is scum. A no lynch could stop us from mislynching town. It does give the scum an opportunity to have one more kill than town does but during the night we could learn a lot of information possibly through investigations, through communiques etc. Sayiing that we won't get more information is absolutely misleading. I am not advocating a no-lynch (right now) but wanted to point out the incorrectness of this statement

Considering all the uncertainty over roffman, we could do a test. We could see if anyone gets a second communique tonight or tomorrow. If not, then lynch him.
Its not conclusive but the result would swing the probabilities a lot IMO.
Thoughts on this?

Meh...I think this leaves too much open to chance and not knowing enough about the dynamic of the game we could lynch on a very weak reason. I still believe roffman may be lying but I don't think this test would add to the argument enough to do it.

[Juls]

The part where you say that a no lynch isn't going to net us any MORE information. It may not net us MORE but it certainly CAN net us more! To say that a no lynch could not provide us with more information is misleading.

And the part about "we'll be in better shape" is not necessarily true either. Think of the story of the tortoise and the hare. A slow start does not mean we lose the race.

[Juls]

In retrospect, I think I misunderstood what you were suggesting. I thought you were saying that the second communique would be coming from roffman but you meant someone else "gets" a communique in the sense that they "get the ability to send" another communique. This might be a viable option but I don't think that means we should stop looking at roffman today.

[Juls]

Hi cybele, welcome. Is there any reason why you didn't include RossWilliam and Braeden in your summary?

[Juls]

@don_johnson: I think she thought you replaced in for magicrabbit. I was a bit confused in her argument too and looked it up. It wasn't until cybele posted that I saw where she may have made the mistake.

@Casey: I appreciate your enthusiasm but I don't think you have much of a case on this one. It was a poorly worded post by reecer but I understand what he means. And I agree with don...a codeword and a password are the same in my eyes.

I still have to look at this hohum/ectomancer thing...comments to come if necessary.

[Juls]

EBWOP: Argh...she already explained that she mixed up don/cybele. Double ninja'd!

[Juls]

I am about to start a fresh reread right now...I have been thinking a lot about this game and trying to come up with ways we can confirm others and such. I didn't want all of you to think I was not keeping up...I am just thinking right now. I will let you know if anything comes from my reread.

[Juls]

OK, I was the one who asked the question that dahill1 refers to. I asked him if he could tell me the exact time he forwarded my communique to roffman. I figured he wouldn't be able to but I wanted to check just in case. I have been trying to work on a better timeline of events...that is why I haven't really been posting much the past couple of days. First, I want to correct the previous timeline...I made two mistakes. I am in central timezone and I accidentally did the translation to central on two of them out of habit. They are shown in red below...

I sent my message to Roffman:

Eastern Time: February 4, 2009 @ 9:30 p.m.
Sydney Time: February 5, 2009 @ 1:30 p.m.

Plan was proposed:

Eastern Time: February 5, 2009 @ 1:53 p.m.
Sydney Time: February 6, 2009 @ 5:53 a.m.

Roffman Objects to Plan First Time:

Eastern Time: February 5, 2009 @ 5:05 p.m.
Sydney Time: February 6, 2009 @ 9:05 a.m.

Roffman Claims to have received the cop message:

Eastern Time: February 5, 2009 @ 7:13 p.m.
Sydney Time: February 6, 2009 @ 11:13 a.m.

(note: dahill made a post in forums @

6:44 p.m.

5:44 p.m.

eastern on February 5th so it is plausible he sent messages at the time roffman claimed)

Roffman Objects to Plan Second Time w/ Cop Quoted Message:
Eastern Time: February 6, 2009 @

1:44 a.m.

12:44 a.m.

Sydney Time: February 6, 2009 @ 5:44 p.m.

Now based on my analysis I feel fairly certain that either a) roffman lied or b) one of the following people sent him the message.

Ectomancer
Braeden
Skitzer (RossWilliam)
Reecer6

dahill1 updated the vote count on February 5 at 4:39p.m. eastern time and roffman claims the message was received on February 5 at 7:13p.m. During that time period, these 4 people were making posts on mafia scum (Reecer actually made a post 4 minutes outside of the time frame but that was close enough to include him).

I lean strongly toward roffman lying because dahill1 has a gap in his posting from February 5 at 5:44p.m. eastern to February 6 at 3:31 p.m. That is not conclusive because I often refresh and read without posting while I watch T.V. and dahill could have been doing the same thing, received the message and forwarded it along as soon as he received it.

The remaining people that are not on the list I have eliminated for the following reasons:

Juls

- I am not scum. If you choose to put me on the list that is up to you but I am not gonna put myself on the list.

hohum

- Was not active in the 3 hour window I talk about but I have to eliminate him because I just can't see him sending a message claiming a guilty investigation on himself.

Budja

- Was not active for the several hours before and after the three hour window. Being from Australia these are the wee hours of the morning. Regardless, I feel he is town at the moment and chose to eliminate him.

Casey

- Was not active for the several hours before and after the three hour window.

The following people are eliminated because they weren't active on the site for a substantial amount of time (multiple days) including the few hours in question:

BSG (houseofcards)
don_johnson (dorvaan)
Cybele (magicrabbit)

=========

I feel inclined to eliminate Braeden and Reecer because I think they are both fairly new and would not have sent the message due to not understanding the game dynamic. But that is just a feeling and I won't eliminate them completely.

So this is my top suspects based solely on this investigation (in order from most suspicious to least):
1) roffman
2) Ectomancer
3) Skitzer (based on RossWilliam)
4) Reecer6
5) Braeden

However, I feel like roffman is lieing more strongly than I do about Ectomancer and Skitzer (RossWilliam).

S

o, unless anything changes my vote will be going to lynch Roffman.

But first, I want a little more data.

Can everyone post two things for me:

1) What date/time did you send your day communique?
2) What date/time did you receive your day communique?

My answers:
Sent: Feb. 4 @ 8:30 p.m. eastern time.
Receive: Feb. 9 @ 3:38 p.m. eastern time.

[Juls]

I based this on posts made during the time period. The only two people I feel I have the potential to be wrong about is Budja and Casey. But I feel pretty good about them in general. I didn't say my list was supposed to be town's list. This is MY list. I give you the information...and we go from there.

@Budja: I want to know the times of posts a) to make sure they match with their counter part's and b) because I will be able to see just what roffman implied. Does dahill1 send the communiques all at once, when he is making posts, outside those times...etc. If dahill1 can't tell me, then I can get an idea of what is going on behind the scenes with this information.

roffman, why have you not provided this information?

[Juls]

Did you delete your sent items too? When did you send your communique?

[Juls]

I am not opposed to a no lynch but I think we should try to work on getting a valid lynch. Right now I am likely going to be voting to lynch roffman but if the majority of the town were in favor of a no lynch I would support it.

Could you paraphrase what you quoted before? The hubby and I went out to dinner and I did not see what you posted.

[Juls]

Is that your sent and received? If so, which is which?

[Juls]

You need to explain what you quoted Ectomancer because my communique was nothing but a message. Dahill1 did not include any other information in it.

[Juls]

Hmmmm....that's not the don_johnson I played with in Hard Nights in the City...brief?, no analysis?

[Juls]

Vote: roffman

If nobody is going to talk I guess we need a little action.

[Juls]

@Juls: thanks for doing the work and pulling up those metas on the active players during the communique window. It's very helpful. And HUZZAH to Ecto being replaced!

Hey hohum, how about you provide those dates I requested.

[Juls]

I sent my communique to Dorvaan last month on the morning of the 9th.
I received a communique from Budja last month on the evening of the 9th.

Exact times please. I PM'd dahill and the issue was that Ecto included the to, from, times, etc. He said it was fine to say what times you received messages, just don't include it within a quote that has the communique in it. Ask him if you seek further clarification.

fixed tags

[Juls]

I am 100% on board for a Reecer policy lynch. To me it is no different than a no lynch. If he is scum then yay us. If he is town then why would mafia kill such a wonderfully awesome gift?

[Juls]

EBWOP: To make my intent clear

Unvote, Vote Reecer

He is pretty much a lynch on sight candidate for me after this being my second game with him. I don't mean to sound rude but dahill said in the queue that he was going to take experienced players only. I personally requested permission because I didn't meet his requirements exactly but I think after it took so long to get it going dahill was just ready to get things going and abandoned that principle.

@dahill

...the game is really fun, I am not trying to be ungrateful. And what is done is done but in the future, please stick to the principle if you want experienced players, wait for them.

[Juls]

I'm not sure of the votecount but I foresee night soon so I want to say this....

Town, please be smart with your night choices and your night communique's...also, analyze everything that is said and make sure scum is not taking you for a ride. I suggest putting a codeword somewhere in there in the event you need to verify yourself later. BE SMART!

[Juls]

Happy Scumday dahill

[Juls]

Unvote.

[Juls]

So hohum, I take it you no longer suspect roffman? Interesting.

[Juls]

it's either ecto or don_johnson which need to go at this point.

Why one of these two and not roffman?

[Juls]

Unvote, vote no lynch

The game is stalled and we need more information.

[Juls]

Unvote, vote Roffman

Will you guys make up your mind?!??! I am getting frustrated with this back and forth.

[Juls]

@don: While hohum is extremely annoying and distracting I cannot get pasted the possibility that he is not scum based on the "fake" pre-game cop communique that targeted hohum. Had someone claimed it I would have been happy to lynch both he and the sender, but being that we did our whole round robin of communique's it is down to either Roffman lying or someone had two communique's.

How do you resolve hohum being scum and the fake communique?

[Juls]

don't you think it is reasonable to ask hohum to produce this "alleged" prepared pbpa?

Yes, that is reasonable. If you think roffman and hohum are scum-buddies why arent you voting roffman?

[Juls]

I did not see that roffman. I am not having an easy time believing it but I will unvote to allow the discussion.

Unvote

[Juls]

Yes. My role makes sense in a communique game. I am a postman...messages are delivered...I deliver packages...it makes sense. Yours doesn't fit the flavor. I am not saying I am dead set on not believing it but I need to think about it some more.

[Juls]

You have to send your communique to someone for it to take effect essentially removing your ability to do a communique at night?

[Juls]

don, don't be dramatic...it weakens any points you may have made. I don't think we give a pass to hohum completely but I do feel that of the three scenarios we have in front of us: 1) roffman lied, 2) someone has two communiques and 3) hohum really is scum...I believe that 1 or 2 are more likely.

Vote Roffman

I think enough discussion has been had on the topic. I still don't see anything that makes me believe this to be true.

[Juls]

What's this game about again? Hello everybody! Welcome Rhinox (I owe you one!). Welcome PhilyEc too!

[Juls]

Interesting. I hope no one has any plans on some stupid schemes to burn day communique's because I plan on using mine today to further my information. I would also like someone to use their communique to follow up on information that was sent to me in a communique in the night. They should know who they are.

Did anyone receive an extra communique for today?
Would the person who I sent my package to identify themselves in thread? And please send me a communique to let me know the information they received?

[Juls]

Well, if I sent to scum...it is a moot point but if I sent to town I would rather scum not know what is in the package. It is my preference but if the person who received it feels that it isn't a problem for scum to know then they can reveal in thread.

[Juls]

I'm curious...is there anyone who did NOT use a communique last night?

[Juls]

I received one communique that was not exactly straight forward last night. Was hoping to narrow down who it was but I don't necessarily want people to have to say who they sent their communiques to.

[Juls]

Vote: PhilyEc

That just sounded like scum seeing two townies going at each other and taking advantage of it.

[Juls]

1) Braeden --sends-to--> Budja --sends-to--> Casey --sends-to--> Dorvaan --sends-to--> Ectomancer --sends-to--> Hohum --sends-to--> Magicrabbit --sends-to--> Reecer --sends-to--> RossWillam --sends-to--> Braeden.

2) Roffman --sends-to--> BSG --sends-to--> Juls.

---

Number 2 seems very strange since BSG has died. He was directly linked to Roffman afterall.

Why were Roff, BSG and Juls excluded from 1) though? Shouldn't it have been a perfect chain? =\

I was left out because I had already sent my communique. BSG sent her message to me and Roffman was left out since he was part of the original communique being sent. They wanted an inbetween for roffman and I since I had already sent my message to roffman. They didn't want us verifying each other.

[Juls]

Anyways, someone tell me who's scummiest so I know who to vote for today

Ah...the question of the century.

[Juls]

Any questions for me?

Have you read the thread? Lots of information from D1 you might want to check out.

[Juls]

OK, so I guess I have given Rhinox ample time. I am a bit curious why you haven't said anything. I sent Rhinox the package last night. He should have received SOME sort of something last night that would indicate he got my package. I sent it to Rhinox because I thought ectomancer was the most scummy. Now that he is doubting my claim AND not confirming my role I am really heavily thinking Rhinox is scum.

(Just an FYI, I haven't read the rest of the posts between my last one and Rhinox's...I am a little swamped right now).

[Juls]

I would like the person who sent me a communique with the codeword asterisk to start the third sentence of their next post with the 2nd word in the communique you sent me to verify its authenticity.

[Juls]

I would like the person who sent me a communique with the codeword donatello to start the third sentence of their next post with the 8th word in the communique you sent me to verify its authenticity.

[Juls]

I would like the person who sent me a communique with the codeword Ender to do the following. Take the first letters of each word and unscramble them. Take the second two words, google them and check out the 7th link. Take the final two words and think about what it could mean given this new found information. Once you have figured it out, I would like you to start the third sentence of your next post with the 5th word from my communique to you. If you cannot figure it out, start your third sentence with the third word in my communique to you.

[Juls]

I would like the person who sent me the communique with the codeword glass to use their day communique to let me know what their role is. If you refuse, begin your third sentence of your next post with the fourth word of your communique to me. If you have already burned your day communique, start the third sentence of your next post with the sixth word of your communique to me.

[Juls]

I would like the person who sent me the communique with the codeword spam to tell me what you think of the first person mentioned in your communique. If you think town, begin the third sentence of your next post with the fifth word in your communique to me. If you think scum, start the third sentence with the sixth word in your communique to me. If you think neutral, start the third sentence with a word that did not appear in your communique.

[Juls]

Only one of those are real by the way. I would like everyone for their next post to post at least three sentences to keep the identity of my communique'r secret. Thank you for your support.

[Juls]

Just a quick post because I only have a short time. I received a communique from Rhinox that he received my package. I do not know anything about my packages only that they are package A, B, and C (or 1, 2, 3...can't remember right now and don't have time to check). Before the game started I specifically asked dahill if I would get any feedback from him regarding what I sent after the fact. He said I would not. I said that earlier in one of my posts (I will have to look later for which one if you guys really want it).

[Juls]

@Rhinox...use this codex on the message you sent me:

26-2-8-56-40-59-34-70-62(+1)-25-45-46-1-5-31-14-73-30-70-82-47-15-39-11

Exclude punctuation.

[Juls]

That's a good question.

mod: please answer Rhinox's question

[Juls]

Just posting this in all my games...if I have promised content it may have to wait. I want to play in some marathon games this weekend. I will probably catch up on all my normal length games on Sunday night.

[Juls]

Just popping in to say now that marathon weekend is over, I will catch up and post tonight.

[Juls]

We have some replacement issues I think Rhinox.

I think dahill needs to evaluate who is here/not here

. This game has a serious issue with not having a full group at any given time. I personally wouldn't mind a no-lynch because I have a better feel for the game today than I did yesterday and it may be that it would be the case tomorrow as well. But, before we do that I would like for people to make use of their communique's and find out whatever information they can for THIS day and if any information is worth being shared/capable of being shared then they should do so.

But I am going to read and catch up too...so I reserve the right to change that opinion.

[Juls]

Thanks dahill.

[Juls]

Happy Birthday Rhinox!!!!!!

[Juls]

And I would like the attacks on Phily to stop this instant. I have proof that Phily is town. I was told not to talk about how I learned this, so that's all I'll say.

No, no, no my dear...that's not how this works. It only works like this if you are confirmed town which you are certainly not.

Unvote. Vote Casey

The whole Rhinox/Juls relationship can be easily interpreted as WIFOM. And it's even stronger because it is a theme game.

What relationship? I'm confused.


===============

[Out of game]My condolences for your loss Casey[/out of game]

[Juls]

My job is to find scum. There will be no reveal so whatever Casey said about you won't even be confirmed on her death. Scum can easily say anyone is town. Until Casey tells me her reason, and she can do so in communique if she wishes, then I am not going to blindly believe her.

[Juls]

Unvote

for now. New information has come to my attention. More later. I have some things to say but I have to study for a test right now.

[Juls]

@Skitzer: Do you believe I am town now that I have been confirmed by Rhinox as sending a package to him in the night?

[Juls]

Casey...if you trust me would you be open to sharing it with me via Communique?

[Juls]

Yes...information going to a place where no one else knows what I have and therefore I have information to see if someone is lying or not.

[Juls]

I would like to know from the following people if they are "vanilla". If possible, you can reveal in communique to me. If you have already used your communique or don't mind revealing in thread then you can reveal in thread. I don't think there is a problem revealing this information. I don't want a full claim, just to know if you are vanilla or not. So the following please respond or state why you don't want to:

Skitzer, Casey, Hohum (or hohum's replacement)

I feel like I have a lot of pieces but want to make sure I put them together correctly before I reveal anything. Please bare with me.

[Juls]

Why would you assume he would be included?

[Juls]

@dahill. I unvoted.

@Rhinox. I am not opposed to a no lynch but I would like Casey, Skitzer, and hohum to answer my question first in the event that there is a case to be built.

[Juls]

Coug who are you replacing? If it is hohum please tell me if you are vanilla or not.

[Juls]

OK...don't reveal if you are vanilla if you are uncomfortable with it. I said if you were uncomfortable to state why and you guys have done that. I will state my case before I go to bed tonight and you can make comments as you wish from there. I am going to watch Lost, do some homework, and then I will write up a post.

[Juls]

It's no secret that I know information about a lot of people in this game. I am not sure how much of it is true but that is neither here nor there. One claim, however, stuck out to me. Budja claimed vanilla townie. I was already having some suspicions of Budja because he has been strongly buddying me the entire game. Here is my evidence of that:

I agree with Juls here, the town having the power to communicate seems more valuable than taking the chance to stop a single mafia daytalk.

I think that Juls' stepping forward was unfortunate. If you were honest, The mafia know you are a power role now which is not good.
But really you had no choice. Sending the PM was not anti-town and Ecto's plan screwed you up.

So I don't think Juls is scummy. Our communiques are our weapon and I also think Juls is right that this plan should not continue past today

I also think Juls should be protected if a doc power exists.

I would prefer it if Juls directs her own communique.

I am with Juls on this.

Well said. Also if you get a one shot 2nd communique, say so.

QFT

I generally agree with Juls but why can't the person say the result from the package in-thread.

@Phily, Juls is right. Tunnel Vision is definitely scummy. I have no strong reason to suspect either of don/hohum,

(@Juls, Now I understand why, I think. Well played )

If Juls accepts your explanation, so will I.

Two people throwing accusations at each other it does not mean both are scum just as Juls argued at the very start of this.

Anyway I think/hope Juls is going to breathe life into this game very soon anyway...

On D1 it was just a feeling but as time went on I started noticing it more and more. So I asked him for a claim. The thing that struck me as odd was that I have information on several people and only one has claimed vanilla.

Now, I have believed for a while that the original communique, whether it was a lie or truth, confirmed that hohum was town. So I think the only person I would believe anyway (regarding my quesiton of vanillaness) is StrangerCoug. So if you tell me you are vanilla I won't push this suspicion of Budja right now.

So back to this original communique. There were 4 people that I narrowed it down to that it could have come from. Ectomancer, PhilyEc (Braeden), Skitzer (RossWilliam), or Flameaxe (Reecer). I have information on three of those people leaving Skitzer as a possibility for sending the message. But we did the whole round robin thing right? Well looking back, I see that RossWilliam sent to Braeden (PhilyEc). PhilyEc has made a claim that I believed initially but then he said this:

I would like to know from the following people if they are "vanilla". If possible, you can reveal in communique to me. If you have already used your communique or don't mind revealing in thread then you can reveal in thread. I don't think there is a problem revealing this information. I don't want a full claim, just to know if you are vanilla or not. So the following please respond or state why you don't want to:

Skitzer, Casey, Hohum (or hohum's replacement)

I feel like I have a lot of pieces but want to make sure I put them together correctly before I reveal anything. Please bare with me.

Why is Budja left out?

Now why in the world would he even think Budja should be included in that? This post has bothered the sh*t out of me for the past two days and he has yet to address it. It makes me wonder if he gets copies of all my communiques or something...which is EXTREMELY scary to me.

The current theory I am working on is that Skitzer, Budja, and PhilyEc are scum. I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing to say my top suspects in this particular game given that it is no reveal. I have one person that I get strong town vibes off and I will be using my communique at night to reveal to them what I know in the event I die. I am not dead set on PhilyEc and Skitzer because there is still the possibility that roffman lied and was scum.

Vote: Budja

So basically this is my case. If Coug wants to send me a communique now (if he believes me to be town) and tell me if he is vanilla or not then that would be awesome.

[Juls]

I'm not saying every instance is buddying. What I am saying is I developed a sense of you buddying me over time. It's the combination of everything. I absolutely could be wrong...I am looking for Coug to counter. In retrospect, I really shouldn't have asked Skitzer and Casey if they were vanilla because the only one I feel comfortable with answering is Coug.

[Juls]

And I believe I backed up my "gut" with several quotes where you seemed to be agreeing with me...more often than not.

[Juls]

Stranger. I have used my communique for today. Using the communique you sent me...Use the first password if you are vanilla, the second password if you are not.

By the way, Pillow.

[Juls]

I wouldn't be uncomfortable if I were perfectly sure that you were confirmed. I think it' may be, Juls, that you believe you must lead the town because you claimed. Frankly, anyone could have done that.

I did not claim intending to be in this position but several people have put their information in my hands. The only one I requested was Budja's.

[Juls]

Yesterday I sent my communique to roffman. It's the whole catalyst to my claim.

[Juls]

Yes it is fine with me. I don't know if it matters at all but DJ made his claim to me last night.

[Juls]

Oh and full disclosure, he has told me who his partner is. The problem I have with it is that I don't particularly find DJ scummy at this point but I know a lot of people do. And since there is no way to verify it I can't really say I believe it 100%.

[Juls]

Breached your trust? I have not told anyone who you said your partner is. You chose to claim in thread. What I have said does not add to or take away from what you said.

Who finds you scummy? Several people have voiced suspicion of you in some form or another including hohum, Casey, and I think Budja (a little...I would have to check back on that for sure).

Your partner coming forward doesn't verify you either. It just says that you can night talk to someone and that can be either scum or town. The problem is we won't know either way. If we thought you were scum that would mean we would need to lynch your partner too. So it is anti town in my opinion to claim in thread.

That being said, I still am undecided about your claim. I don't like, however, your emotional "breach my trust" spiel though. It seems you might be trying to get the town to not send information to me for fear I might betray them.

[Juls]

Which communique is this info in? The first or second? I reread and I just don't get why you are so up in arms about this. I suggest you use either your first or second message (your choice) as a codex to explain what is going on.

Just in case it isn't clear what I mean. If I sent you a communique that said

"This is a game of mafia silly man" then I could reveal to you that I am a mason by using codex.

10-9-19-12-26

[Juls]

I am still thinking some things through and trying to figure things out but one thing that is still eating at me is why philyEc thought I should leave Budja out. And until he answers me sufficiently...

Unvote, Vote: PhilyEc

DJ...I kinda get what you are saying...heavy emphasis on the kinda. Do you understand the codex thing now that Rhinox explained it? If you do, use it liberally because I am not smart enough to figure out your agenda. Each # is associated with a letter in the communique. If you want to say something you code a message based on the position it appears in one of your communiques (your choice). So if your communique was "Hi there", H=1, i=2, t=3, h=4...etc.

[Juls]

Coug...you should know...that message that you are using as a codex exist in this thread. Hohum posted what ectomancer sent him. In the future you might want to communicate with Rhinox using a different one.

[Juls]

Hi Izzy...glad to have you.

[Juls]

Well I think we can get more information by day 3. I am leaning toward no lynch. I am going to prepare some codex's though first and I also want to get DJ's codex before we go to night.

[Juls]

Actually, speaking of the coded messages... I have one that was sent to Cybele that I don't seem to have been told how to decode yet. If I missed it, could it be posted again at some point? It was sent anonymously on the 22nd. Thanks!

Search my messages in isolation for the 12th "green" word in the message Cybele sent me (without the 's). Let me know if you understand. If you don't I will create a codex for you.

[Juls]

I really don't feel like a no lynch is better than any lynch at this point.

Here's what I think:

no-lynch + no-reveal = no-lynch+no-reveal = ....

It's just a continuous cycle. And all these communiques going around isn't really getting anything done. The only efficient thing is if Juls is really town and she ends up determining something effective.

I am pretty certain I can get some information during the night. I will be doing some codex's tonight and getting them up. In the mean time, if you believe me to be town I would like for you to send me a claim with your communique if it is available.

[Juls]

Oh...maybe I haven't read back far enough, but then shouldn't we have examined anything about BSG?

excellent point. has anyone done this?

juls: what makes you think you are going to survive the night?

Even if I don't my information will carry on.

[Juls]

OK here are my codex's. I have some questions in some of them. And some of them won't even make any sense but I included everyone to disguise who I am really sending messages to. So if yours doesn't make sense play along.

Casey (your message to me)

11-22-15-17-35-31-53-97-26-51-24-16-38(+1)-106-65-18-112-35-46-50-66-25-4-16-52-51-94-30

Rhinox (your "asterisk" message)

84-37-48-25-43-35-47-48-71-90-19-24-11-8-13-32-68-14-23-85-31-93-14-37-46-3-36-37-15-4-40-73-49-70-3(+1)-19-27-43-94-95-93-42-6(+2)-21-52-23-8-55-95(+1)-51-21-15-31-66-76-82-8-6

Izzy (Cybele's message to me)

81-13-35-26-36-29-3-33-27-31-37-18-71-1-24-45-44-49-16-3-78-37-42-43-27(+1)-36-37-42-43-75-40-26

StrangerCoug (use your message to me, just agree or not agree in thread)

24-20-50-74-20-35-5-6-87-99-84(+4)-13-69-102-44-84(+4)

PhilyEc (your message to me)

4-8-12-19-21-26-20-21-26-29-24-32-28-4-26-25-36-12-25-26(+2)-41-40-25-4(+1)-12-12-30-39-34

Flameaxe (your message to me)

7-4-56-11-2-44-39-9-54-6-66-4-32-1-22-34-5-6-7-7-9-88-5-4-33-45-2-31-2(+1)

Skitzer (use your message to me, just say yes or no in thread)

3-7-1-2-15-10-18(+3)-16(+2)-v(-1)-25-12(+1)20-22-18-16(+2)-25

Budja (your first message to me)

2-15-33-25-66-78-44-23-1-6-55-43-22-11-29-87-54-3-44-21-12-41-33-43-87-9-5

don_johnson(your first message to me)

30-6-48-69-25-66(+1)-18-45-47-50-29-5-28-66-6-30-21-18-42-44(-1)-5-45-9-26-68-22-37-1-6-51(+1)-24

When all the ones that need to be answered have been answered and I get DJ's message, I will likely be voting no lynch.

[Juls]

I understood what you said in the message, what I didn't understand is why you got so upset at me.

[Juls]

*sigh*....Casey...you

SHOULD try again

. Do you understand what you are doing?

Draw a table on a piece of paper to help you.

[Juls]

Yeah...I did too Rhinox but I didn't want to confuse the matter. Actually, putting it in Word first, adding spaces, and then converting the text to a space-delimited table before sending it to excel makes life very easy.

[Juls]

Juls, message recieved. Would like clarification on what you meant by 78-37-42-43, though.

43-75-31-26-36

[Juls]

just to be clear: i take the message you are referring to and place a number above each letter in that message. i.e. if you wrote "hello", the codex would be 1=h 2=e 3=l 4=l 5=o. correct? we are not numbering punctuation or anything else but numbers, correct?

That is correct, exclude punctuation and spacing.

[Juls]

Juls:

70-8-10(+1)-3-4-19-17-35-55-47-57-30-78(+1)-50(+1)-88

Got it.

[Juls]

This all seems rather silly, just saying.

Oh...thank you so much for that amazing input Flameaxe...please, tell us more.

In fact, screw this...I would rather get rid of dead weight then no lynch

unvote, vote: Flameaxe

That comment really annoys me. There are a lot of people putting a great deal of effort in this game and for you to lurk out of the shadows and dismiss it ticks me off. Totally OMGUS and I don't give a shit.

[Juls]

If you are going to V/LA for the whole game, don't replace in. You're useless.

[Juls]

Yay, I managed an update! And I figured out how to do the codex thing!

As for important stuff...

Juls: 103-65-32-45-74-13-31-16-24

And a question: 13-99-75-74-75-31-16-64-59-40-80-90-28-19-95-64-72-6-16-32-77-95-103-67-59-64-92-8-94-9-72-65-20-14-15-96-20-81-90-110-95-60-52-59-20-31-30-18-19-22-26-80-75-67-59-52-6-59-60-38-18-41-3-74-3-31-16-42-43-74-75-95-41-70-88-72

[snip]

83-25-74-75-41-79-42-43-59-103-36-41-7-8-11-67-26-25-78-79-16-3-27-74-16-20-78-6-7-11-10-3-37-112-100-93-31-103-33-90-72(+2)-13-4-76-4(-1)-83-71-11(+2)-1-74-3-4-76-70-16-7-3-78-85-66-71-29-27-7-26-3-12-84-10-68-13-99-3-31-3-16-76-70-83-7-74-59-75-86

Verify you got the message.

[Juls]

Phily did you get your message and understand it.

Unvote

for now. I think no lynch is better as much as flameaxe annoys me. But I want to hear from Phily first.

[Juls]

@Juls, why the unvote? Was you vote not serious?

It was OMGUS as stated IN my post. I am kinda glad I did it though because I agree with don...it seems very scum driven. I really want to hear from PhilyEc before I vote no lynch though...still waiting.

[Juls]

In a game where we know so little already, I highly doubt that masons are not the same alignment. Thats not a certainty. I am definately concerned about Coug and Budja. Moreso Budja than anything as I was already suspicious of him. I'm actually willing to vote him.

Vote Budja

but please don't end this day until I hear from PhilyEc.

Mod: can you prod PhilyEc

I know he has posted recently but I want him to read his codex and I know he is around.

Rhinox: 3-16-37-35-38-45-95(+1)-22(+1)-68-66-8-82-13-19-43-11-67-46-94-95-3-42-47(+1)-91-43-15-7-88-34(+1)-10-81(+1)-55-54-31-89-16-48-43-26-57-49-14

[Juls]

Rhinox, I am going to sleep for a bit...not feeling great. I will decipher your message later tonight.

[Juls]

Looking for a quick lynch here, Juls?

Um...as fast as the last wagon went I am wanting my request heard that I need to hear from Phily before night.

[Juls]

Rhinox: 3-16-32-87-15-21-23-24-34-89-90-23-7-8-58-21-12-58-40(+1)-21-17-7-25-23-66-55-25-93-29-32-42-81-55-82-23-37-8-72-30(+2)-37-27-36-48-95(+1)-47-68-26-75-13-7-21-9-21-34(+2)-15-95(+1)-55-73-8-17-71(+2)-27-58-34-89-7-38-64-14

[Juls]

3-16-32-87-15-21-23-24-34-89-90-23-7-8-58-21-12-58-40(+1)-21-17-7-25-23-66-55-25-93-29-32-42-81-55-82-23-37-8-72-30(+2)-37-27-36-48-95(+1)-47-68-26-75-13-7-21-9-21-24-21-34(+2)-15-95(+1)-55-73-8-17-71(+2)-27-57-16-90-75-21-29

See if that makes a little more sense.

[Juls]

That really sucks if we get yet another replacement. A game like this is not replacement friendly AT ALL.

[Juls]

Can you please verify if you got the message I sent you via communique?

[Juls]

I'm sorry..I mean by codex, not communique.

[Juls]

I'm leaning toward a Budja lynch but that will quickly change to PhilyEc if he doesn't VERIFY THAT HE HAS RECEIVED MY CODEX...

[Juls]

Budja, I have enjoyed playing with you and I think you are a swell guy but unfortunately I think you are the scummiest player in the game. When I posted my reasoning, I felt even more comfortable with your lynch after you responded. It seemed to be a weak effort at defending where I have seen you go strong on the attack in this game. I think scum tend to attack stronger and defend weaker. I felt good about you for a little while but the strong buddying (I know you disagree) made me look at you harder. Mainly because I was doing the exact same thing during that time in another game that I was scum in. We lost if it makes you feel any better.

[Juls]

Casey, the difference between you and Budja is that you were strongly against me and not trusting me at all before my claim and after my claim until I was confirmed.

Casey is really not a good choice today guys. She has claimed to me and I believe her claim. It is one that makes sense.

[Juls]

I think hohum was wrong in that logic. A no lynch is a viable solution in THIS game but not most. If you have strong suspicions you should go with them but if you don't then a no lynch is better because otherwise you lose a potential townie. Obviously this is only viable once, maybe twice during the game or you get to a point to where its a mafia free for all.

[Juls]

I was mad at Flameaxe and thats why I voted him but I still don't see how, as confusing as this game already is, the mod would put opposite aligned masons together.

[Juls]

@mod: I am V/LA (more LA than V) until Tuesday due to studying for finals.

[Juls]

If you guys are going to no lynch can you wait until Monday to finish it? I have finals and it looks like SC is gone the weekend too.

[Juls]

Well, if we go to night I am really bogged down in studying and won't be able to review the game like I usually do during night...I will vote No Lynch on Monday night unless something happens between now and then.

[Juls]

Wow...scum = budja. I asked to wait until Monday night.

[Juls]

maybe he just doesn't like you

Now Rhinox, you and I both know that it is impossible not to love me.

[Juls]

Well, since as we're going absolutely nowhere...

Seriously? One day was going to kill him?

[Juls]

I asked if everyone could wait until Monday night so I would have the time to review the thread during night and budja decided we didn't need to wait. I find that scummy.

[Juls]

Typically a no lynch takes only 50% is that not the case here dahill?

[Juls]

Mod: Wish me luck in the back to back finals I have to take in about an hour

[Juls]

Thanks Coug...and good luck to you.

[Juls]

In between finals...thanks for the luck. First one was meh...that teacher likes to word things weirdly. If anyone could send me some sort of magic powers for remembering all 50 of these calculus formulas for my next final that would be awesome. I have 2 hours to study but thanks for the good vibes.

@Rhinox: I had a bit of a panic myself when the power went out before I left and I couldn't figure out how to get out of the garage! Thank goodness for smart husbands!

[Juls]

She can if you thought you were hammering

Anyways, back to game discussion, because the conspiracy theorist in me is tingling...

Juls, why did you want us to wait before ending today? Seems like you could have welcomed a 3 (give or take) day break from game activity while night played out. Sending your claimed night action only takes seconds, so why the need to be done with your finals before going to night?

Because I typically reread the game at night. It lets me assess a still target as opposed to a moving one.

Now that finals are done...

Unvote, vote: no lynch

[Juls]

Vote: PhilyEc

1. You did not follow my instructions at night because I sent you my package and I did not receive word it didn't go through. Though I have a note into the mod attempting to make sure my package was or was not received.

2. Rhinox was a cop. You knew that Budja claimed Vanilla to me earlier and now you know about Rhinox. I have a feeling Phily could see all my communications yesterday because he knows this information. In other words, we are screwed.

[Juls]

He got an innocent on BSG...he had planned to investigate Budja last night.

[Juls]

I confirm my vote on PhilyEc. I have talked to the mod and 2 of my 3 packages are no longer available to me. Earlier he had told me if I was roleblocked I would still have my packages available the following nights. Phily claimed Jailer to me and to Casey. He was supposed to target me at night to protect/roleblock me. What he didn't know was that I was going to send him my package to verify him. My package went through, he is not a jailer and is scum.

[Juls]

Unvote, Vote: Budja

opportunistic. And I have never believed you to be town. I still feel really bad about phily right now but my gut is telling me Budja and StrangerCoug are scum and using my annoyance to end the game.

I currently believe don, jahudo, and casey as town. I am inclined to believe DizzyIzzy so my guess is that the third is skitzer.

[Juls]

That's true...so you and Budja are top of my list.

[Juls]

I have no way of knowing. Obviously, of those dead he is most likely to be scum. I wish we had lynched budja yesterday.

[Juls]

I will tell you this, I will never play another no reveal game as long as I live. It is the most frustratting heap of crap I have ever been a part of. And, I am probably the worst person to have the weight of the town on me because I second guess everything and change my mind a lot because I am so unsure! I am really considering replacing out.

[Juls]

Going into night Coug and Budja were top of my list. And also going into night I was annoyed at Phily for taking so long to respond to me. Phily is really bothersome to me because he has done some scummy stuff and if he is town his long absences are not useful. Skitzer has been non-existant.

I have some more reason to distrust you and Budja but I can't reveal without giving too much away. So here I sit.

I really need to hear from the people who had night actions (via communique). Tell me your targets and your results. I am hoping that if Phily had access to my communiques that he no longer does and if we use the codes he will know what we are saying.

[Juls]

I am saying if someone had a night action I would like to know who they targetted and what results they got as applicable. If people did not have night actions there is no need to send their communique to me unless they have something they want to share.

[Juls]

unvote, vote philyEc

If you aren't scum you are antitown because I told you I wanted you to target me for a reason! Why the hell would you think that RBing/protecting scum would be a good thing? First, Budja was a top suspect so if anyone was vigilante, he would have been a good target and two, mafia would likely NOT allow him to do the kill because if someone saw him out (via tracker or watcher or something like that) then he wouldn't be able to explain because his vanilla claim.

I asked you 10 times at least to confirm my message to you and if you did read it then you should have either done what I said or told me you didn't intend to. So I am fully happy to lynch you. My gut still says Budja and Coug are scum but there is no arguing with your lack of cooperation and that is scummy.

[Juls]

FYI, that's L-1 I believe...give Jahudo time to catch up before hammering so he can comment.

[Juls]

So 7 left, potential Lylo situation here...I take it my last package wasn't a bomb. So what was it Budja?

[Juls]

1 - Juls - town
4 - Looker -?
5 - Strangercoug - town
8 - Budja -?
10 - don_johnson - town
11 - DizzyIzzyB13 - town
12 - Casey - town

Vote: Budja

. I think Coug may be town if some information I got was correct. If Budja and Looker aren't our last two scum then good job to whoever is. I am essentially a vanilla townie now.

[Juls]

I think ^ answers your question Coug.

[Juls]

By the way Casey, I didn't sign my message to you. But the 10th word was "mafia". Can you please use a codex or your communique to respond.

[Juls]

Not proof, but I feel her role is probable and I felt good about Cybele and some of the communications we have. Someone either intercepted my communique or the mod forgot to send.

Mod: can you confirm that all communiques went out as they should have

Casey, we could be in LYLO. Budja is most probable scum. Please vote Budja, not Izzy.

[Juls]

We don't win until all scum are gone.

[Juls]

It scares me that you said that because it seems you may have confused the scum win condition....

FoS: Casey

.

[Juls]

I made my case against you and now it is down to process of elimination. I am sorry this offends you so but this is the nature of the game. Have you used your death reveal yet? I would like to know roffman's alignment if not. Phily is a good 2nd choice obviously.

[Juls]

I'm wondering why you hammered so fast yesterday when I clearly asked that you wait to see what Jahudo had to say on the matter. Also, could you give me some details about your night via communique or codex. And your previous night for that matter since you didn't give any of us time to analyze anything?

[Juls]

Budja is the choice today with Looker a close second. I have a very minor reason to believe Looker over Budja. I will explain in end game.

[Juls]

I had 3 town packages that have been confirmed by 3 people. I am definately not scum.