Mini 729 - WaTR Mafia - Game Over!

[MonkeyMan576]

Vote: Prom King

I always hated the popular guys...

[MonkeyMan576]

Unvote:

Vote: LunarTick

He seems to be admitting that he made his choice knowingly without consulting anyone else. It's one thing to say you didn't know that his vote would be final, it's another to say that you know and deliberatly left others out of the discussion.

[MonkeyMan576]

@Monkeyman: You seem to be confusing me with Rogue Shenanigans. Maybe.

I'm sorry I mispoke. Defending the move is just as bad as doing it, if not more so. Like Prom King said, it's unlikely scum would actully choose a path this early, but having someone defend the tactics worries me.

[MonkeyMan576]

@Monkeyman: Defending the move is just as bad as doing it, if not more so. Like Prom King said, it's unlikely scum would actully choose a path this early, but having someone defend the tactics worries me.

Your whole post and vote assumes that the choice has any kind of bearing on the game. You are very far from being sure of your claims, at least not close enough to make any kind of conclusion and subsequently vote on it. And if you are sure of your claims (and it seems that you are), then you are highly suspicious.

Also I don't like the way you use the word "tactics" in your post, when there was clearly no under-hand mafia scheme but rather a random choice.

You're not in a position to say what I'm able to come to a conclusion on and vote for. All I need to vote is to think that you are more guilty than anyone else. And I clearly do. The only way you could know if there was a scheme or if it was random choice is if you were scum, a townie would not know the difference.

[MonkeyMan576]

Wait can someone explain the lunar wagon? I just reread the thread - I don't get the impression that Lunar has done anything particularly scummy. Note that this includes what Kiro just said... fence-sitting and not voting are two different things, Kiro. It seems like this whole thing is stemming from RS picking a direction... which (I think?) we can all agree to call neutral at this point? Regardless of what we WOULD have picked, RS already picked.

And the mod even said it had little bearing on the game.

Later choices, he said, will be more important. The point is, I'm confused as to why Lunar's at L-2. Korts admitted his vote was purely for bandwagon right in the post... is this the general reason fueling the wagon?

I don't know... it seems weak to me. Especially Kiro's vote... it is weakly reasoned for an L-2. And the very fact that it attempts to support itself with a weak reason comes off as scummy... it's one of those "searching for a reason, not really finding one, and attempting to make it look founded" votes in my opinion. For that, I'm going to

unvote - vote: Kiro

BFE:
He didn't say that the decisions weren't important, he said that if we continue to make similar decisions it will have a greater effect, than if we change course. If you're going to make a case you might consider making sure you quote the mod correctly.

[MonkeyMan576]

Also what is BFE?

Bolded For Emphasis...

Your interpretation has a slight possibility of being correct, but he specifically said "The decisions may not make much of a difference now."

In all likelyhood, what he meant was that there will not be major consequences in the short term, not that the decisions we make now will not have concequences in the long term, especially if we stay on the same course.

[MonkeyMan576]

I wouldn't consider the mod's own words bad evidence...

[MonkeyMan576]

MM, nothing else to say?

Yes, I stand by my interpretation of the mod's statement and would like to point out that Occum is backtracking...

[MonkeyMan576]

Occum is backtracking...

Ummm how?

I'll agree with you that the decision itself is not important, nor the ramifications that directly result from the decision.

It sounds like you're leaving open the possibility that there are long term consequences to the decisions we make now, which is different than what you said before, that the path's we take in the beginning don't really matter.

[MonkeyMan576]

It sounds like you're leaving open the possibility that there are long term consequences to the decisions we make now, which is different than what you said before, that the path's we take in the beginning don't really matter.

No, not even close and I don't even see how you could get that wrong. I say explicitly that neither the choice nor the ramifications matter. How is that backtracking?

Well, thank you for clarifying, but that clearly contradicts what the mod said...

This decision will not make much of a difference now, though similar decisions may be more potent later.

So clearly, if we continue to make similar decisions, it will have consequences. That is very different from saying the decisions have no importance.

[MonkeyMan576]

As long as we can agree that "scheme" and "tactic" are essentially the same thing in this context (because they are), MM just contradicted his own thinking.

I didn't contradict myself. What I said was it worries me that someone would defend choosing a path without majority consensus, but from a logical standpoint it's unlikely a scum would do that. It doesn't mean it's impossible, or that it's not worth concern.

At any rate. I think it would be a good idea to try pushing some new people for info. Role fishing is scummy.

Unvote
Vote: Freeko

[MonkeyMan576]

Rhinox, where do you get the idea that I had them pegged as scum-mates? For all I know they could be lovers. I love how you make this attempt at turning my questioning completely sideways here.

First you say..

"there is scum on LT's wagon" .. i suck at quoting, so meh.

Then you say I am the one thats fishing?

Which one is it? Is there scum on LT's wagon? Or am I scum now, because I was exploring the possibility of a link between LT and Occam? If you missed a MINOR little detail, I do not have my vote on Occam. Nor did my vote ever get placed on Occam at any point.

Either scummates or lovers, it's still rolefishing, and still scummy on your part.

[MonkeyMan576]

I voted for Freeko, I don't have anything new to say.

[MonkeyMan576]

Sorry, I didn't see that he was a claimed mason. My apologies.

Unvote

[MonkeyMan576]

At the site where I usually play, official roleclaims are in bold, and I didn't see any bolded roleclaims, so that is the reason for the mistake.

[MonkeyMan576]

Okay, you're going to vote me even though I admitted it was an honest mistake. Your loss.

[MonkeyMan576]

I still don't see what I've done that's guilty aside from not realizing the rc, which was a mistake and not scummy.

[MonkeyMan576]

As per post 128, I still maintain that Lunar Tick was scummyish.

Vote: Lunar Tick

[MonkeyMan576]

Just a vanilla townie.

[MonkeyMan576]

Okay, I'm a cleric and didn't want to get wacked.

[MonkeyMan576]

Why should I if you're just going to vote for me anyway?

[MonkeyMan576]

Because I'm already voting you, and I don't know what a cleric is or does, so it would be nice to have a description to base a decision of whether your claim is believable or not... anyone can throw out a role name, and you already lied about your claim, so it would be nice to know if your role is something that would justify a lie to protect.

Well, my role is provable, but I'd rather not do so at this point, my only safeguard against being killed is that the mafia doesn't know what I do.

[MonkeyMan576]

I've already rc'd and said I can prove my power, so if you don't want to give me a chance that's your mistake, not mine.

[MonkeyMan576]

Nope, all I'm asking for is a chance to prove my role. I lied because I didn't want to get NK'd. If I full claim I'll probably get night killed. It's my fault I lied, it's the towns fault if they lynch me without giving me a chance to prove my role.