Mini 702--Serum & Steel(The rust has settled/Game Over)

[CF Riot]

Another game with Wall-E? NOOoo

oo

! =] Replacing Iron Man. Reread coming.

Unvote/Unserum/Unmycosynth

if I have any out.

[CF Riot]

I'm trying to catch up whenever the opportunity finally decides to present itself. Middle of page 4.

Does anyone want me to ask for an extension? I don't know if I'm allowed or not but it would help me personally.

[CF Riot]

TE's

's Claim: Don't give him the serum, because I don't see any benefit from him having it. Whether or not he's scum is taking me longer to decide. He really reads to me to be an overeager newbie who's just way too excited that he got a good role. I'd put him at 60/40 town/scum.

Wall-E

:

I am against ANYONE claiming unprovoked.

Does not match how I've seen you play elsewhere.

I would rather the serum be used and that assigning

not

be random. Giving the serum to inexperienced or uninvolved players is increasing the chances that it is not used optimally. For instance (using non-players), I as a cognitive being can understand why Mith should get a PR instead of Gimbo, assuming that I can't see any alignment differences between the two. A die cannot, and should not be in charge of making that selection.

I read

Porkens

as pro-town.

To

Wall-E

and everyone else, I think if you believe TE actually

is

metal, whether you think he's town or scum, you should

not

be trying to lynch him, as you are essentially voting to no-lynch. Also, if he is town, you are proving to the scum that he's metal without them testing it out with a kill of their own. (I doubt scum would try this, but you see my point.)

Wall-E and SpyreX are dorks. (Spyre's posting theme in the beginning of the game, and Wall-E's "Newbscum virus outbreak" post.) This is okay because I'm a big dork too. <3

TE

, I know you may feel like SpyreX's focus on you may seem scummy from your point of view, (if you're telling the truth) but for everyone else who doesn't know your alignment, we have

zero

reason to trust you. Try to take yourself out of the situation and look at it objectively. There are scum motives and town motives to do what you've done, and now the town has to try to decide which it is. It's not unlikely for a townie to come down on the side against you.

[CF Riot]

This was supposed to be connected to my first post but I hit 'Submit' by accident.

Seraphim

, I'm against the idea of posting what we do with the Serum right away. As scum, there's nothing I like more than seeing a town lay out every piece of information they have hoping it will strengthen the town. It's incredibly easy for scum to take what appears to be a well thought out plan and turn it on it's head because

they know things we don't

. To assume they won't be able to manipulate ideas put in plain daylight is underestimating your opponent. I think how the serum is used by each player is circumstantial, so we shouldn't have a policy that applies to every circumstance.

As far as I can tell, there are no side effects to throwing a non-metal player into the mycosynth. As such, I think a mycosynth majority should happen

every day

. There

will

be at least 1 metal scum, I'm sure of it.

I checked page 1, and I am entitled as a replacement to request to extend the deadline by 3 days. Does anyone need it? I thought it'd take me longer than this to catch up but I'm okay now.

Wall-E

, I explained my reason already. I don't know how else to say it. Some people are more considerate of their options and the possible consequences of those options than others. If you let the dice pick, you're taking away valid judgments that can be made towards a person's ability to choose wisely. I'm not worried about random voting giving the serum to scum, I'm worried about giving it to a townie that will waste it or use it ineffectively.

Mycosynth: Wall-E
Vote: Seraphim

No Serum vote yet. For the others, Wall-E seems suspicious to me, but as a disclaimer to that, he seems suspicious to me in every game I see him in. Therefore, he gets Myco'd. Seraphim got voted for not being around, then immediately showed up out of thin air. That tells me he's paying attention and choosing not to post.

With that, I think I've already passed about half the town in post content in a bit more than 24 hours. Applause are welcome.

[CF Riot]

I understand how you see those as contradictory so I'm not going tot touch on that. I think what I have proposed is the best option. Moving on.

The whole idea of random voting is that there is nothing systematic in it that the scum can try to manipulate. Your very idea of giving it to the townie judged the "best" seems to be something that could easily fit into the category of something the scum could manipulate.

The reason we don't want scum to have control over things is because it gives them power. But at the same time, I don't think it's a good idea to give up all of our own control as town just to make both sides equally helpless. I value the town's ability to reason more than sheer odds left to randomness.

That's why I proposed random voting within certain constraints i.e. only among those who have contributed a certain amount.

Now you're just agreeing with me but trying to hold on to some degree of randomness. What stipulates "active enough"? It's all going back to just judging who deserves it the most. Not only that, but if you put

this

idea out there, it's even easier for scum to benefit by making sure they post just enough to stay above the lurker mark to keep their name in the hat, while inactive/busy/lame townies drop out and raise the scums odds. And this even lets them stay quiet about who they think deserves the serum, which hides their intentions from us, making them harder to read.

Also, I don't see any reason to no-lynch today. Lynches can hit scum, we don't win until all scum are gone. Lynching is the best way to win.

[CF Riot]

I can see a meritocracy (like I've said I would prefer for said serum) - what would you suggest on day 1?

Are you asking me who I think should get serum'd? I do have some weak opinion, but if the majority is sticking to the "D1 random, D2 elect" idea, then I'll just sit on it until more comes up.
----

Scum is an arguably more exciting role than vanilla townie. I think vanilla townies are more likely to lurk than scum for this reason.

I've heard this argument elsewhere before and I must say from experience that it doesn't hold. I've seen cops asked to be replaced and scum suddenly stop posting halfway into a game. I think whether or not a person is committed to a game of mafia depends solely on the type of person they are, not what role they got.

That aside, I can see the appeal of random on D1 then moving to selection D2 after we've established some grounds to work from.
----

Also I have to say something: if Tuberkulos hasn't even posted in 3 days why should we'd be sure he'll even be around to put in a night choice (assuming he can't also use his power the next day)? I am again, not particularly trying to overturn the serum decision but it is a small concern.

That's what Riot said.
----

not quiet no-lynch, you do get the info on his metalicness.

Yes, but coming from the idea that you

believe

that they are metal, there's no point in confirming that they are, especially by wasting a lynch.
----

I say it is either 100% random or merit vote, trying to combine the two is just an attempt to manipulate the process while leaving minimal evidence, and very scummy.

That's what Riot said.
----

I say that for today, at least, those of you who want to give the Serum to someone, you

must

abide by the random selection. Any argument against this is a scumtell.

Disagree.

Since there is suspicion on him from multiple sides; I bet he's not going to be nightkilled anyway, so I Mycosynth: Timeater.

This is the most logical reason I've seen for Mycoing so far, especially since I was formerly of the opinion that I didn't want to Myco TE.
----

Unless the player feels that circumstances dictate otherwise, I think that anyone we give the Serum to should tell us what exactly he did with the serum.

This is the complete opposite of correct.

Also, (and this has already been addressed) the

only

thing that would make scum want to kill TE is the fact that he's metal. If we Myco him, they have no motive to kill him. More than a few townies suspect him. It's absolutely obvious that his chances of living through the night are 80+%.
----

why would [Wall-E] claim town fleshie rather than town steel if he was in fact mafia steel? Sure there are some possible reasons to, but none of them seem really

worth the risk

.

What risk? Where is everyone getting the idea that if we throw a flesh into the synth it will say, "Ah, this person was flesh to begin with!"? I'm assuming anyone going into the synth will receive the same (if any) flavor as anyone else.
----

I just had the thought that we should be using the mycosynth and lynch together when we don't have a reason not to.

The reason not to is if the person does get lynched, then your synth vote was basically useless. Synth doesn't resolve before lynch. What's the point of throwing a dead body into a pit? (Besides religious reasons.)


I like my Seraphim vote. If you're all going to serum randomly, you don't need me to vote for it with you. I think giving useful powers to a useless (so far) player is a bad idea, myself. Let's all get those synth votes on Wall-E, who's quoted post up there is obviously trying to throw someone into the synth in his place. I apologize for hugeness. There was a lot to comment on.

[CF Riot]

You're advocating synthing me because I

don't

want to die.
FoS: CF Riot

When did anyone say anything about you dying? The synth won't kill you. I just happened to notice that at first you were all, "sure guys, I don't mind synth votes cause I'm fleshie anyways," and now you've turned into, "well, maybe we should synth the person we're going to lynch." It's extremely weak I'll admit, but the way I read that is you tried to claim flesh town to talk us out of synthing you, (as synthing a fleshie does nothing) and now that you're getting close to it actually happening you're trying to find an alternative. Ergo, steelscum. Nice OMGUS though.

At Spyre: It's a stretch from the actual situation at hand, but don't you think if we just decided not to synth anyone that claimed flesh it would defeat the purpose of synthing anyone? I'm unsure of Wall-E's alignment and I have a better lynch candidate, so what's wrong with synthing him? In this particular scenario, I can see why you think TE is a better target, but I personally bet he's town. I'd rather not synth him and waste a good town role.

[CF Riot]

as for the pit, is throwing someone in there every day our best option? I know some scum are most likely steel, but we assure them a sure night kill every night by mycoing someone everyday,

I thought this too, but the way I look at it, it's still a benefit. If we always Myco scummy people, this forces the mafia to decide on either trying to kill a townish/non-suspicious person and potentially bouncing off steel, or going with the sure thing but taking out someone who would draw suspicion if left alive. The normal scum strategy is kill pro-town people and leave people who could easily be band wagoned. The synth challenges that method.

Regarding synthing me, I suggest you do not. Wall-E is a much better choice. There is no sweet-talking. I am town, which is all you need to know to not synth me.

Also, ortolan's logic about who to synth is terrible. You don't want to synth a claimed steel or a claimed flesh, which leads to the question, who do you want to synth? You say the choice is people who haven't claimed, but this seems to advocate everyone claiming their steel/flesh status, which I would argue against. At some point, you have to throw someone in regardless of what they told you they are. I think Wall-E should be that someone.

[CF Riot]

However, I think I see what he is saying about declairing night actions after getting the serum.

I don't know if you misunderstood or simply misspoke. Maybe I'm just reading your post other than you meant it. No one should declare their night actions before they do them. It was debated whether or not they should declare night

results

, which I am against but is more plausible.
----

Also, ortolan's logic about who to synth is terrible. You don't want to synth a claimed steel or a claimed flesh, which leads to the question, who do you want to synth? You say the choice is people who haven't claimed, but this seems to advocate everyone claiming their steel/flesh status, which I would argue against. At some point, you have to throw someone in regardless of what they told you they are.

What I meant was they have both made claims and I at this point have no good reasons for doubting either of them. I think if we can get a bandwagon going to synth a different player who then can simply claim metal/flesh then we might have something else to go on.

You have no good reason to doubt anyone that claims either on D1. No matter who you bandwagon or whether they claim steel or flesh, you have equal reason to doubt/believe all of them. Simply wagoning everyone one at a time as they claim would be stupid. Taking it to the 3rd in line is no more logical than going all the way to the end.

coming from the idea that you

believe

that they are metal, there's no point in confirming that they are, especially by wasting a lynch.

This falls into the same category as wanting to synth Wall-E. Do you have any good reason to believe he is scum, and lying about being flesh? If not, why do you advocate wasting a mycosynth on him?

This is not the same in any way. Lynching someone you believe is metal will send the game to night for the scum to kill, while giving the town no information about that persons alignment. If we myco Wall-E, or anyone, we

know

they are now flesh. Whether or not they were before is irrelevant. I do not

believe

Wall-E is flesh like the other people were believing TE was steel. These two situations are only vaguely similar, and I believe my position is perfectly logical.

Regarding synthing me, I suggest you do not. Wall-E is a much better choice. There is no sweet-talking. I am town, which is all you need to know to not synth me.

This does not follow... Why should we be more likely to think you are town than Wall-E,

You shouldn't. You have equally as much reason to believe him as me.

and even then why is thinking you're town enough reason not to synth you anymore than it is Wall-E?

I do not think Wall-E is town. I know that I am. Also, Wall-E said he was okay with being synthed. I am not.

it seems to me, that assuming Wall-E and Timeater are telling the truth about their roles (which obviously is a big assumption),

This

is

a big assumption. Too big at this point. The rest of what you said doesn't matter to me because I do

not

believe Wall-E's flesh claim with no backing.

I think I should also defend Seraphim at this point. Porkens, in the above post, seems to be arguing we should lynch Seraphim because he wants to "waste the synth on Wall-E". However this is exactly the same thing that CF Riot.

Defending Sera on these grounds is defending him because Porkens is not attacking me. Whether or not Porkens is attacking me has nothing to do with Sera's alignment unless you think Porkens is my scum buddy.
----

why you picking on wall-e?

I feel like it. He seemed like a good avenue to pursue upon replacing in. Also, I don't know what my quote has to do with what you said about me. (Post 309)
----
TE's post 322 is exactly why I want to Myco Wall-E.

[CF Riot]

CF Riot: Can I get a response from you on post 307?

It's in 324. I think we shouldn't synth me and you think we shouldn't synth you. Since I am me, I know at the very least my position is good. Yours could be, or it could be bad. Do you understand what I'm saying?
----
@Ortolan I don't understand anything in the first part of post 326. Can you reword that?

The difference is that I *believe* both their claims, or at least have been presented no good reason to doubt them.

I already explained, you won't have a good reason to doubt anyone today. It doesn't matter who claims, or which status they claim. They will all be equally believable. Therefore, this is not a good excuse to absolve Wall-E.

why do you not believe Wall-E's claim to be flesh?

I am of the opposite school from you. I doubt until I have a reason to believe. You believe until you have a reason to doubt. I don't see anything backing up Wall-E's flesh-claim so I don't believe it.

If you compile everything I've said so far, (and this is the point I really want you to understand) basically what I'm getting down to is this: a person claiming flesh when faced with a Myco-wagon should not stop us from Mycoing them. There is absolutely

no

drawback in this game to claim flesh. Therefore, any steelscum (or fleshscum for that matter) would automatically claim flesh in an attempt to shift the Mycovote to someone else, under the pretense that it will be "wasted" on them. This is why a flesh-claim shouldn't affect a myco-vote. If you don't want to Myco Wall-E anyways, then that's okay, but you should not decide not to Myco him

because

he claimed flesh.

The sweet-talking thing refers to a statement Wall-E made. He said something along the lines of "if Riot can sweet-talk me into mycoing someone else I'll listen."

Wall-E is a better choice than me because I want to Myco Wall-E and I don't want to Myco me. That is the only reason. I personally think Wall-E's flip-flopping should indicate scumminess, but if you don't think so then you should see us as equal candidates.

Also, what you have said is ambiguous,

It's supposed to be.

are you claiming to be steel here?

Stop role-fishing.

It is possible (but as I already said kind of unlikely as the risks would seem to outweighh the benefits) that Wall-E is scum metal claiming flesh townie to avoid suspicion

For the last time there are

NO RISKS

in claiming flesh-town. It is absolutely safe. The only way to prove someone is lying about being flesh is to lynch them, which amounts to witch-trials because they're dead if they're innocent and dead if they're guilty.

I think I should also defend Seraphim at this point.

I am not really "defending" him,

Do I have to say anything?

The reason why the consistency of Sera's bandwagon doesn't matter is because I never said "Porkens I agree with you" and Porkens never said "Riot I agree with you." We are on the same wagon for different reasons. This is not uncommon. I would love for you to explain to me why this is scummy.

Also, you're dancing around with words. You say you think Pork and I are buddies, but you're not suggesting it, but it is a possibility that you considered entertaining the idea of possibly postulating. Either you think we are, or you don't. You can't attack me because of a link you see to Pork then say you're not calling us buddies. That doesn't hold.

You are rabidly defending Wall-E for no reason. I just want you to know that.
----

I guess asking for a full claim will happen after the myco'ing, right?

No, why? What do you mean here? Why would Wall-E full claim? (or anyone technically...grumblegrumble.)

If we myco a steel player, we will see the results of stripping of his unkillability.

No we won't.

If that were not the case, it would be an extremely easy out for scummer, and they could just all claim fleshie, and would not have to answer about being steel.

That is what is going to happen, and I've been saying that all along.
----

A bunch of people posted while I was writing this but I must go to work now so I'll read later.

[CF Riot]

We've been focused so much on the serum and the myco the actual part of this that matters - the lynch - seems to be lowest priority.

I think this is partially because most agree on a Sera lynch and Sera hasn't posted since the 7th.
----
It doesn't matter how many ways you form the question the answer is always going to be the same. Why is it so hard to believe? You put

anyone

in the synth, the next day we'll get the mod saying "So-and-so got put in the synth so he's flesh." That's all. There is no way to prove someone is lying about being steel/flesh without trying to lynch them. Therefore, Wall-E's flesh-claim means

nothing

to me.
----

Mod:

If Tuber is not getting replaced, can we undo the majority serum vote on him by unvoting/voting a new candidate?

If our random serum technique gets us a serum on someone that's not even here N1 I reserve the right to be the very first person to say "I told you so." Everyone else just has to wait.

[CF Riot]

Geez Wall, what a waste of space.

Why should we be more likely to think you are town than Wall-E,

You shouldn't. You have equally as much reason to believe him as me.

and even then why is thinking you're town enough reason not to synth you anymore than it is Wall-E?

I do not think Wall-E is town. I know that I am. Also, Wall-E said he was okay with being synthed. I am not.

Also, I worded it even more simply later. I want to synth you and you want to synth me. The only thing that makes our situations different is I know my own alignment and not yours.

[CF Riot]

Serum: SpyreX

I highly suggest everyone not serum Tuber who isn't even here. Deadline is in two days. I will not random as it's already failed once.

Mod

Sorry the town is so repetitive. I was just wondering if majorities on serums/mycos were final and unchangable like a majority on lynches. Which I now see they are not. I don't know why everyone asked the synth-flesh/steel question so much. I thought you answered clearly the first time. I appreciate the deligence though. You seem to check up on what we're asking/doing quite often.

[CF Riot]

I admire your balls.

Most people do.

[CF Riot]

The "good reason" is if you don't there's a very high chance that the serum will not be used tonight.

@Spyre: Generally pro-town read. I also considered Porkens but I thought it'd be too obvious to serum my buddy D1. (sarcasm)

[CF Riot]

The "good reason" is if you don't there's a very high chance that the serum will not be used tonight.

TE, refute this then. If not, tell me why it's a good idea to give the serum to someone who may not be replaced until after the serum wears off.

Spyre, I was afraid to trust you in the beginning of this game because I was afraid you were scum in SSF's game. I agreed with you (or your process at least) well over 70% of the time in that game, which is why I made that pact. Since you turned out to not be lying then, I'm much more comfortable trusting you now. (So don't be scum.)

And TE, I just asked the mod. We can change the majority if we do it before lynch/deadline.

[CF Riot]

Coming from a scum in that game.

Yes, but only for one post. And think, as soon as I turned scum our thought process stopped matching. (I wouldn't have voted you as town in that situation, even if I was really confident, because of the threat of a quicklynch.)

TE, what makes you think we'll find a replacement in the next 5 days? Nights have been declared as 3 days non-negotiable. He's been away for 9, which means we've already been looking for a replacement for 6 days with no luck. I don't know why you think replacements are that easy to find. Also, I'm pretty sure the priority of finding a replacement for her game wouldn't change whether that person was VT, Power-town or scum for Nati. They'd all be treated the same. I've been against the random assignment from my very first post. I don't know why my opposing it now seems so scummy to you, especially in a situation where it's obviously a bad idea.

[CF Riot]

Are all those people wrong and you right?

Yes. Also, please don't just run out and find one of your RL buds because he'll most likely be super-noobish and probably won't be that interested in or committed to the game anyways. Also, I think you would cheat.

=Edit= I was about to ask the mod to prove me right, and I noticed the mod just proved me wrong. I assumed the game would not wait for one person. I was wrong. In that case, serum Tuber if you want, but I'm still not going along with randoming.

[CF Riot]

For the cheating thing I apologize I guess. I didn't find it that offensive. I would be tempted to cheat if I knew one of the people I was playing with from RL and no one else in the game did. I'm really not agitated that you're attacking me, because I think you're super-wrong and I don't think anyone really believes you anyways. And I wasn't calling you a noob, simply guessing that anyone you pulled from RL probably would be. (Live mafia is worlds different from forum mafia.)

I think if you objectively look at what you're proposing though, you'll see it's less than solid. If I were scum, wouldn't it be in my best interest to let the serum go to a lurker or a replacement rather than someone who's been active and paying attention? I think if I was scum trying to get my hands on the serum, or give it to my buddy, I would try to be a LOT more discrete than what I've just done and I may even back the random idea in that it gives a chance for scum to get the serum without having to convince anyone they should have it. Basically, there's just no motive for 2 scum to stick their necks out this early to get the serum on N1 when 75% of the town have already made up their minds on someone else.

[CF Riot]

1 the logic was not faulty and 2 WIFOM does not mean that an argument is not valid. I think it's completely logical (though in this instance completely wrong) that a mod would move on with stated deadlines even if it may result in one person not sending in their night action. I also think it sub-par play to allow that to happen if you have the ability to give the action to someone who is active.

Most everything in mafia is WIFOM. Please tell me why my explaination is less probable than yours. Give me the motive. Why would scum risk it?

[CF Riot]

The reason I serum'd Spyre is I have a pro-town read on him and I think he's a very logical person in general.

TE, again, explain the logic to me. Anyone who suspects me, explain what kind of gambit this is. I don't think you're using the word correctly unless there's some odd scenario you have cooked up that I just can't picture. As scum, I wouldn't challenge the serum today period because Tuber is not a bad serum candidate for scum and it puts me in the middle of the spot-light regardless. BUT if for some reason I really wanted to try and get it off Tuber and on someone else, I would push for a reroll on the dice and cite Tuber's inactivity, not flat out say "Hey everyone, serum Spyre with me for no reason!"

Can anyone tell me why saying the same things now that I've been saying all game is scummy, when before it was a-okay? What changed?

I like all my votes where they are. TE I have a town read on you, but you really need to start playing more pro-town if you're going to be aligned that way.

[CF Riot]

I would rather the serum be used and that assigning

not

be random. Giving the serum to inexperienced or

uninvolved players is increasing the chances that it is not used optimally

.

Wall-E, I explained my reason already. Some people are more considerate of their options and the possible consequences of those options than others. If you let the dice pick, you're taking away valid judgments that can be made towards a person's ability to choose wisely. I'm not worried about random voting giving the serum to scum, I'm worried about giving it to a townie

that will waste it

or use it ineffectively.

I don't think it's a good idea to give up all of our own control as town just to make both sides equally helpless. I value the town's ability to reason more than sheer odds left to randomness.

I say that for today, at least, those of you who want to give the Serum to someone, you

must

abide by the random selection. Any argument against this is a scumtell.

Disagree.

If you're all going to serum randomly, you don't need me to vote for it with you. I think giving useful powers to a useless (so far) player is a bad idea, myself.

Mod:

If Tuber is not getting replaced, can we undo the majority serum vote on him by unvoting/voting a new candidate?

If our random serum technique gets us a serum on someone that's not even here N1 I reserve the right to be the very first person to say "I told you so." Everyone else just has to wait.

----
And here's some instances of other people doing what you're calling me scummy for:

Also I have to say something: if Tuberkulos hasn't even posted in 3 days why should we'd be sure he'll even be around to put in a night choice (assuming he can't also use his power the next day)? I am again, not particularly trying to overturn the serum decision but it is a small concern.

I think either we stall a bit until we know a replacement can be found for Tuberkulos,

or serum someone else

on a random basis.

So again, why is it only now that you're saying, "Oh, Riot isn't following along like a good little sheep, let's kill him!" when I've been saying the same things all along. I never voted to serum Tuber, and I said it was a bad idea a week ago.

[CF Riot]

TE, post 417? You asked for examples and I got them. Do they mean anything or are you just going to follow your proclaimation of scum no matter what I do?

Wall-E, what do you mean "negotiation"?

Mod:

does deadline lynch the person with the most votes or no-lynch if there's no majority?

[CF Riot]

So because Ort asked everyone if they were willing to switch with him before he actually did it, that makes it okay? Do you not see what's going on here? I've been against random serum all day and have acted on it. Two other people were pro-randoming, then tried to change where the dice fell after the fact. I don't see how that makes me scummier than them.

I also don't understand why you're hesitant to take a deal with someone who you think is scum when they're offering themselves to be lynched. If you were actually right about Spyre and I (you're not) then this would be better than a 1-for-1 trade as you'd get both of us. That'd be 2 scums for 1 town by D2. What makes you think Spyre is steelscum rather than just scum?

Also, full town scummy/not-scummy lists like that are anti-town. It just tells the scum who to NK and who to press for mislynch. What do you mean by "shortlist/longlist"?

[CF Riot]

Why should I be fine with the town losing its only metalloid? D1 no less?

First of all you don't know that you're the only steel on the town side. Second, even if you are you already wasted the benefit you gave town by coming straight out and admitting it. The benefit of steel town is failed mafia kills. Knowing you're steel means they won't even attempt to kill you. Third, he's not even asking to kill you, just asking you give up your steel powers, and in return he's giving you 2 scum lynches (in your eyes). That would mean most probably 1 scum left with 0 mislynches. Why wouldn't you be all for it?

That said, I already believe Spyre to be town. Before the last two days I believed TE to be town. Going along with the gambit in this scenario leads to 2 straight mislynches. I think this is what Ort is aiming for with supporting the gambit. However, I am starting to doubt TE. Either way, I do think Sera is a great lynch today.

Sera, I'd say now is a good time to claim since we're a day from deadline now that MafiaSSK has joined us. Everyone else voice an opinion. Sera don't claim unless we have at least 4 people who are pro-claiming.

[CF Riot]

Why?

[CF Riot]

How does Spyre flipping town say anything about mine or Porken's alignment? I don't think our 3 alignments are directly related that way. Yes, Spyre flipping scum would implicate me, and vice versa. Either of us flipping town shouldn't confirm either of the others as town though.

One benefit that I do see though that I'll admit is if TE flipped scum it would drop a lot of the suspicion on Spyre and I.

And you suspect TE, Spyre, Sera, and me so what's the big deal? 3 suspects isn't that much.

[CF Riot]

Nobody messed with the die rolls. They were evolved as a process and the process had zero flaws with execution.

That's not what I'm talking about. Ort was pro-random, then said we should reroll because Tuber was inactive. Illumina did the same.

Why does all of post 458 sound like you're against the gambit, yet you're going along with it?

460, what about that is rolefishing? I don't understand anything you're saying.

Please stop double, triple, and quadruple posting.
----
TE, what's wrong with an Ort lynch? What do you not like about it?

[CF Riot]

To the mod, I should still be seruming Spyre but it doesn't really matter at this point.

Ort, I don't know how to argue with you when you're that opposite of me. I just think everything you're saying is wrong. If I flipped town, Spyre could very easily be scum. (Doubt it.) If Spyre flipped town, I could very easily be scum. (I'm not.) If either of us flipped scum, you have good reason to suspect the other, but they could still easily be town.

I think (could be wrong) that we need a true majority to lynch at deadline. I would lynch Sera or Ort at this point. I would synth Wall-E or TE, who's opposition to the whole process that's been laid out really says something for his alignment.

Another question for TE that I forgot, why do you have a town read on Gremwell? What has he even done this game?

[CF Riot]

I never agreed to any gambit.

Thought you were part of the whole Spyre plan to lynch himself and synth TE. My bad.

He's trying to see if anyone will say "No! I'm metal, too!"

Doubt it but okay.

And "smelly face"? Seriously?
----
Also Ort, truth be told, I'd be okay with synthing TE and lynching

you

without any crummy reason at all. And please don't overestimate yourself so well. You are 80% sure you hit all 3 scum on D1 with no night investigations to go by? You know that's mathematically in the range of a 1/1000 shot?

What do you not get? None of Spyre, Porkens, or I are trying to get out of the others flipping scum. We get that part. We've all been fairly buddy-buddy so you think 3 people agreeing with each other means 3 scum. But we're trying to get you to figure out that one of us being town doesn't mean the others are town. How in the WORLD is that scum driven?

[CF Riot]

Unsynth: Synth: Timeater Unvote: Vote: Ortolan

I'd switch back Sera easily to ensure a lynch. I think they're both good lynches.

Mod: Deadline. No majority. Most votes lynched or no-lynch?

[CF Riot]

Why do you all care if Spyre is "trying so hard to look town" if he's going to be lynched anyways? You'll know it for sure when the day is done.

Forget any situational details. Do you think it's worth losing a metal town to lynch a scum (metal or flesh scum)? Do you think it's worth scum giving themselves up D1 to demetal a townie, not knowing how many metal townies there are. (It doesn't matter how many you think there are, we can all agree that no one

knows

for sure, and this includes scum.)

This is why I don't believe Spyre is scum. I know he will follow through with hammering himself. I don't doubt that for a second. I don't think any scum would give themselves up D1 just to demetal 1 townie.

Geraintm, why would you vote to myco someone who is offering themselves to a lynch? (This won't even get answered until D2.)

TE, you are either scum (yes) or you are way big-headed. What makes you think the town can't win this game without you being steel? I would like a PM quote from you. I don't know why we haven't done this yet. I want to know what you think you'll accomplish if you do get the serum one day. I sort of doubt a steely would get a very strong power role like cop or vig. You may not even get powers at all.

We have to hit a majority at deadline. I'll vote Spyre (town) to prevent a no-lynch if you go along with this whole myco process TE. (You know that if Spyre really did flip scum, no one would lynch you tomorrow right?)

[CF Riot]

According to my count (forgive mistakes) we're looking at:

Lynch

Ort: Pork, Riot, Gremwell
Spyre: TE, Tony, Illumina
Seraphim: Spyre
Illumina: Ort
Pork: Seraphim
Riot: Geraintm

Mycosynth

TE: Spyre, Pork, Riot, Tony
Wall: Sera, Illumina
Riot: TE
Spyre: Spyre

This means we're 4 votes from a majority lynch. 3 votes from myco majority.

I'd vote Spyre or Sera. Spyre is last resort to prevent a no-lynch obviously. I'd myco Wall still. Sheesh. I don't know what to do with TE really. I can really see you believing your steel status is more important than securing a scum lynch. This is multiplied by the fact that so many other people are dropping little scum tells that the number of suspicious people exceeds the expected number of scum. Which is always bad.

[CF Riot]

Great. This rules. I was about to vote, but that'd only be L-1 so it wouldn't have mattered. See you all in the morning.

[CF Riot]

Unvote, Unsynth
Vote: SpyreX
Synth: Wall-E

Everyone should vote Ort. Everyone should myco TE. If anyone actually tries to be helpful I'll be checking often to switch back.

[CF Riot]

I'm not sure if it will count or not. I'm hoping it does. The _only_ reason I'm synthing Wall again is because I'd rather synth someone than no one. I'd much rather it be TE. I would really REALLY rather lynch Ort than Spyre, but if for some reason Spyre dying means people will listen to the townies instead of the scum then it's still better than no-lynch today and going through the whole thing again tomorrow minus one lurker.

TE, I hope you know that your whole, "It's okay, I'm offering to be synthed D3" thing is bogus, and I (and I hope the town) see through it. In a 12 player game with 3 scum, assuming no blocks/protects/whatev we only get 3 mislynches. Synthing you D3 means we can't lynch you till D4, which is too late assuming worst case scenario.

[CF Riot]

Also, I just noticed if only the people not in the tie can change their vote, we need all 3 non-myco voters to vote the same person, and one of them is TE, so it can only be Wall-E.

Wall-E(4): Seraphim, Illumina, Gremwell, timeater
Timeater(4): SpyreX, Porkens, CF Riot, Wall-E
Not Mycosynthing: MafiaSSK, timeater, geraintm.

To lynch Ort, we need Wall-E, Pork(who would obviously), Seraphim, and MafiaSSK to all vote Ort, because Ort probably won't vote himself and Geraintm has said he doesn't post on weekends.

[CF Riot]

I was about to say something about how synthing TE is near impossible in this scenario but I just noticed the synth count is wrong. It shows TE as voting Wall and also not voting, so only 10 people are represented. Assuming everyone stays where they were when it was posted, it should be:

Wall-E(4): Seraphim, Illumina, Gremwell, timeater
Timeater(4): SpyreX, Porkens, CF Riot, Wall-E
Not Mycosynthing: MafiaSSK, geraintm, ortolan, Tony Montana.

Also, I found this, his most recent post:

[face_palm]

Unsynth Unvote
Synth: Timeeater
Vote: Spyrex

I was confused by the miscount. Assuming Tony's vote is counted, and if Pork and I can change back, we could have:

Wall-E(3): Illumina, Gremwell, timeater
Timeater(6): SpyreX, Porkens, CF Riot, Wall-E, Tony Montana, Seraphim
Not Mycosynthing: MafiaSSK, geraintm, ortolan.

This would be great for me.

Unsynth, Synth: Timeater

[CF Riot]

Geez, that said I think I'm off the computer for the day. This has been the most intense D1 of any game I've played on MS so far, but dinner with my woman is still > lynching scum. This most recent votecount is off too, with Porkens voting and not voting and a couple people missing. I hope you guys sort through it all and do what's best.

[CF Riot]

Mod

: Typo on Wall-E: Flash->Flesh.

Vote: Ortolan

TE: Who do you think is scum today?
Gremwell same question.

[CF Riot]

Geez, I do you a favor then you go and say that. Thanks a lot. =P (Would've happened sooner or later.)

[CF Riot]

Cut it with the dice thing. It's annoying. Also, why do you have to make it so difficult? Why role 7 dice? IF you decide to random the serum (I still don't want to) just role 1 d10. Don't complicate it.

[CF Riot]

Ok, I was on the phone earlier. I'll make real content now.

And, CF Riot, I think we already know what Gremwell will say as he already found me suspicious (not that he gave any reasons to)

Stop answering questions for other people. Also, I don't want the serum today, and I'm not going to say what it did to me.

TE

: If you're suspicious of SSK not dying, why are you myco'ing him rather than voting? We know scum didn't bounce off him (or it can be assumed I should say) because someone did die. I've already said my bit about 7 dice being overkill and pointless. I also think you are definitely not protown regardless of you're alignment. You do realise that we have to hit at least 1 scum before N3 or we lose right? If you're town, you're asking to put the town to lylo.

I am curious as to what MafiaSSK got out of the serum, although obviously not sure if it's in our best interest for him to tell us. That's his call. I take it you didn't get to use your new ability, CF Riot?

Why do you assume that SSK's power worked, but assume mine did not?

There's no benefit to town in them trying to conceal their abilities from the mafia,

How do you know? I disagree whole-heartedly. And this is aside from the fact that I'm not buying anything you say today anyways since you're scum. SSK can do whatever he feels like regarding his night actions. I'd like you and the rest of the town to respect that, unless you can give me a better reason than this for him to share.

@Sera: No. Don't roleclaim until you're at L-1 or 2, depending on what the town thinks at that time.

@Tony again, I don't know if you read it or not but the serum powers only last 1 day/night phase. Unless we're voted again, SSK and I will not have powers by tonight.

[CF Riot]

The Magic List

People you think are scum, or people you think should be voting you today?

I shall claim what I got from the serum as long as 6 people don't disagree with it.

I don't like this because you're throwing your responsibility into the hands of the masses. I can see wanting to do what the town thinks is best, but I also think this is sort of a way to have an excuse for either claiming or not when the time comes. Maybe I'm just paranoid.

The only way they are going to get the serum again is by roleclaiming and demonstrating that the drawback of them getting the serum again (i.e. them dying unless they get it every turn from then on) is outweighed by the power of their ability.

Wrong again. Did you want to give me the serum yesterday? Did I get it? There are ways around your little rules, so stop acting like your opinion is the law of the land.

If I say, "Hey guys, my roles is the greatest ever, if I get serum'd again we win," scum kills me tonight no questions asked. If I say nothing, they have to make a choice. If they kill me, I may not even be serumed, leaving the person who is serumed that night wide open. If they kill someone else, I may get the serum again through the mystical ways I did last night and break the game with my powers. I'd prefer scum not knowing what will happen next, thank you.

Please don't tell me not to pre-empt his response, as it seems clear to me one of the main reasons you've asked for his input is that you expect him to re-iterate his previous suspicion on me.

Wrong again. I won't tell you why I asked until he answers. However I will say that in general, answering questions for other people is bad no matter why the question was asked, probably 80+% of the time. If you think the question is a set-up, just let him answer and then call me on it, rather than guessing the future.

obviously no-one's going to give you the serum without you specifically requesting and justifying it,

Last night. ;] Not everyone thinks like you pal.

And again, (and this is totally unrelated to the game itself, and has nothing to do with who's doing it) the triple and quadruple posting is bad. It just makes the thread unneccesarily long. I know it's not killing anyone and maybe I'm being nit-picky, but if you could just try to sit and think about your post for a while before you hit submit, it would save pages and make reading the game easier.

[CF Riot]

However, I do suppose ti could confirm someone. Timeater, claim now.

This is why we shouldn't have random serumed. We gave the serum to someone who used his power to find out the role of someone who quoted their role PM in the thread. Complete waste.

SpyreX(7):

Timeater

, TonyMontana, SpyreX(DEADTOWN), CF Riot, Porkens, Seraphim, ortolan
ortolan(1): Gremwell
Not Voting: MafiaSSK, geraintm, Porkens, Wall-E

Mycosynth Count
Wall-E(3): Illumina, Gremwell, timeater
Timeater(7): SpyreX(DEADTOWN), Porkens, CF Riot, Wall-E(DEADTOWN), TonyMontana, Seraphim, ortolan

This leaves us with Porkens, CF Riot, TonyMontana, Seraphim, and Ortolan who share a common voting bloc with

lynching a townie

and stripping a metal-townie of his status.

I personally think Ortolan has been playing very pro-town

so I do not factor him in. That brings me to my magic list.

Are you serious? Lynching a townie? YOU said to lynch SpyreX. You were the one calling him scum. Pork and I said he'd flip town for about 5 pages. We only voted him to stop a no-lynch brought on by this super lurky town. So you're coming out today using that as evidence? By the way, up there in bold, who's that voting SpyreX right along with me? That's what I thought. And Ort is magically not on the list, because he's been sooo townish. I swear, I can hardly play this game with you.

Please note MafiaSSK supporting TE's plan, yet not voting with it.

Synth: MafiaSSK

[CF Riot]

do the two who got it think the benefits are worth the risk of it going to scum??

I would say yes regardless of my own role and what the serum did for me. I dislike mountainous games. It's hard to say for sure because we don't know how much power the serum would give scum. I would assume not as much as town, but I don't really know.
----
Ort: Most of what your post says doesn't matter. I should not claim what my role did because I don't want scum to know what my role did. That's the only argument I need to make. You're saying I shouldn't get it because I haven't told what it did, but that's irrelevant because no one knew what it did yesterday and I got it anyways. You're saying I shouldn't get it because there's no reason to believe I'm town, but again, same yesterday. You're saying if I don't claim now, I must do so before I ever get the serum again. I think if I decide I want the serum later, I will just say, "Hey guys, I want the serum," and it will be up to everyone alive at that point to decide what to do. I don't like you telling me now at the beginning of D2 that I'm going to have to claim if I want to get the serum again, just because you say so. Also, you can't say

"QFT"

about your own post. That's just silly.

For the second half, I don't have to justify wanting to Myco someone I was suspicious of, and I don't really think I needed to justify not wanting to be synthed at that point either. Sure, I'd try harder to convince you not to if the majority looked like they wanted me synthed, but at that point, "don't do it" felt like a good enough response to me.

You're also distorting the details from yesterday. I never said Wall-E was definite scum, and I didn't really push his wagon that hard, (you support this testimony yourself by pointing out I never attempted a case on him.) Had I thought he was, I would've voted him rather than synthed him. And again, I've explained why claiming flesh has no bearing on stopping a synth wagon. It's extremely easy to claim flesh in this game without repercussion, so I don't think a flesh claim holds any weight. Whether or not I was right about Wall-E (not, in this case) has no bearing on your alignment or the liklihood of me being right about you.

Me refusing to answer your obvious role fishing is not straw manning by the way. I can see why you wouldn't like me doing that, but the term "straw-man" does not match this situation. I have not suggested that I am either metal nor flesh. I will keep it that way for as long as possible. I suggest you all do too.
----
@Sera: I don't want the serum today. That's as much as I'm going to say about it.
----
Something I noticed about TE's case on Sera that I kept forgetting about, he's in a round about way using Wall-E's death to support Sera being scum.

Also about the Wall-E death, it works well that an outsider, ala SSK, would recognize his skill and would go for an easy kill without having to worry reprocussions like say, one of Wall-E's enemies would. Its a good choice for him.

This is flawed for 2 reasons. 1, Wall-E is no different from anyone else in being an "easy target" in this respect, because as an "outsider" as TE describes him, Sera could kill anyone without being tied to them. 2, Wall-E claimed flesh in thread, which would make him a good target for anyone in the game. I would wager that this is the reason Wall-E was killed, rather than any ties he did or did not have to people in the game. This is yet another example of why NO ONE should claim their steel/flesh status unless impending lynching/synthing requires it.
----
Gremwell, I have a question pending to you from the first page after night. Who are you leaning towards today as scum? What are your leads?

[CF Riot]

This is unnecessary. I will tell you now that I am flesh- you can lynch me today if you wish. Of course you may or may not choose to believe this.

It is unhelpful for the town to declare their flesh/metal status before their lynching/synthing is imminent. When a flesh town declares that they are flesh, they are giving the scum an assured night kill, rather than making them take the risk of hitting a steel. I wish you would stop doing this.

Perhaps quoting our alignment from our role pms would help determine whether his accords with the majority? As quoting only this will not reveal any information about our potential abilities there are no drawbacks for the town, thus I will start:

This won't help at all. Reason:

Welcome, Timeater.

You are Triskelion, town-aligned metal fleet.

<snip>

This was on page 2. Obviously, faction claiming is pointless. Any scum can simply copy this, and add w/e name to it they want. Not only that, but after saying we should all faction-claim, you posted yours to copy, in case they were too scared to copy TE's.

"You are Glissa Sunseeker, town-aligned protagonist."

You made faction claiming pointless in the same post that you asked everyone to faction claim. Not that it wasn't pointless already, what with the two dead townies we have, who's alignments were posted in thread. And again, this is role-fishing, because even though you say your card has nothing to do with your implied ability, you don't know if that's true for anyone else. I know my role name almost gives my ability away.

I withdraw my previous position. I think that despite SpyreX flipping town, CF Riot is still scum.

Hohoho. This one made me laugh. Not that I didn't see it coming but man, you really have some nerve.

Um, NO. Another ridiculous straw man,

This doesn't have anything to do with you being scum, but I'd like to know if you understand the definition of "straw man". You're using the term incorrectly. To straw man is to pick out one part of an argument and use it in an attempt to cast doubt on the argument as a whole. I'm not doing that. I'm destroying every point you make one by one, each with emphasis relative to how bad of a point it is, and only leaving out parts that would hurt the town for me to answer, (like asking me what my role is or what I did with it.)

I consider you claimed metal at this point.

Even though I've never claimed metal.[/quote]

I believe Timeater's claim

Why?

Thus I think you're scum.

Great case.

I'm left wondering what was so amazingly useful and pro-town about your ability that you CAN'T EVEN REVEAL IT TO TOWN??? Was it a cop investigation? Was it a hiding ability? Was it a vig? Was it a protect?

Role fishing, again. Blatantly this time.

I've given some thought as to what ability you might have that might have a drawback to revealing it to town at this point. I came up with...nothing. So I think you're scum.

"I don't understand something, so I'll assume you're scum." I've already given you reasons why publicly claiming your role when you don't need to is bad, so now you're just being thick.

I don't know why anyone thinks MafiaSSK has confirmed TE at all. He repeated something that's already been posted in the thread. I can do that too, I don't even need the serum. Ort's role is Glissa Sunseeker. He's confirmed town now guys aren't we doing good?
----
At Illumina: I wanted TE synthed because I don't trust him, and his role was worthless anyways since he claimed it in thread. Despite this, I think it's more likely that Ort is scum than TE, not excluding the possibility that they both are. I think it's possible Ort is doing some super-buddying with TE who he knows is a townie, which would explain constantly defending him for no reason AND at the same time being one of those to vote to synth him. You would think if he really thought TE was town, he would argue against him being synthed, but no, he has to keep his options open in case TE stops being useful at tries to turn on him.
----
At Sera: I wish you hadn't publicly claimed, although it was sort of obvious what your role was. This is why I wanted you lynched yesterday, yet you notice I hadn't said a word about you today. I don't think you should serum yourself, because it probably wouldn't do anything. Just serum townish people. I don't want it tonight though.
----
At TE: Nati is a girl. Nicol Bolas is an alt created to match the theme of this game. Aside from this, please watch your language. I disagree with a mass claim. The town would learn

nothing

and the scum could learn

everything

.
----

But, I believe Ort's claim, based on how it compares to my PM.

I agree with most of what you said, but not this. We had one person post his PM in thread page 2 (big mistake) and we also have 2 dead townies, whose reveal matched this format. It is incredibly easy to fake in my opinion. Protagonist actually sounds a bit fake to me, but technically could be true. Why do you want to synth Sera?

[CF Riot]

I'm deciding if I should modkill you for calling me a girl.

First, I apologize. Second, I feel really stupid and kind of wonder why I thought that in the first place. (I usually assume male unless something leads me the other way.) Third, I apologize again.

Unvote.

*sigh* Ort don't get a big head. I still disagree with almost everything you've said this game, and I still think a lot of your ideas have been unhelpful for the town.

I guess I'll try a reread soon and look for new suspects. This will be hard since a few people have posted so little.

[CF Riot]

As much as I don't trust TE, I would argue against that. Example: Wall-E.
Auriok Champion, town-aligned Hero. Champion is the name, town-aligned is the faction, and Hero is the role. For TE's info, Triskelion is the name, he claims town-aligned as his faction, and Metal Fleet is the role I would assume. I could see role cop going both ways in this game. I agree it is MUCH more helpful to scum than town.

SSK, I'd like to know. Was your result "Steel Fleet" or was it TE's entire PM that he quoted in thread? Or something else? And again, why did you inspect him? I know what I've said about claiming roles in thread, but I'm starting to think that for this situation, where you've already said what your role is and it's under suspicion, a PM quote is in order. If you can give a solid reason why you shouldn't without giving anything away, go ahead.

[CF Riot]

"Questions for MSSK

1. SSK, I'd like to know. Was your result "Steel Fleet" or was it TE's entire PM that he quoted in thread? Or something else?

2. I know what I've said about claiming roles in thread, but I'm starting to think that for this situation, where you've already said what your role is and it's under suspicion, a

PM quote is in order

. If you can give a solid reason why you shouldn't without giving anything away, go ahead.

3. Did you know that TE had quoted his role in thread before you investigated him?

Underlined is very important to me now. Role and Result if you don't mind.

[CF Riot]

Hindsight is 20/20... we should've really revoked the serum once Tuber was replaced...

Do you think he's lying? Why didn't we? I tried to.

[CF Riot]

Illumina - Not much to say. Seems to be the most reasonable/Townish player here.

I'd like some supporting details for this if you can.

Vote: Tony Montana
Mycosynth: Gremwell

Serum is tough today. I'm still very much against randoming it. Illumina, who would you serum if it were up to you? Ort, what about you? (Please answer in this order, Ill first, Ort second.)

I read over Tony's and Gremwell's posts, and I noticed something interesting. They both made similar comments that raised my guard.

Isn't mycosynthing someone, basically giving the scum an easy target?

as for the pit, is throwing someone in there every day our best option, I know some scum are most likely steel, but we assure them a sure night kill every night by mycoing someone everyday, which will also open it up to questioning why people wern't killed after being thrown into the pit.

I guess what it boils down to is should we desteel someone everyday no matter what, or should we wait for enough suspicion?

They're both hinting at the idea of a no-synth. Tony a little more subtly, but it's there. I understand the thought process, but this just seemed a bit out of place while reading through.

[CF Riot]

Do you mean to be serumed? I was considering that actually. If he's town, role cop is semi-strong. If he's lying (which we would have a better idea of after the result) he's essentially been slow-vigged. Fairly nice way to move us to odd numbers without the pain of no-lynching. Is this what you were getting at or something else entirely?

[CF Riot]

Unvote.

Unsynth. Synth: Gremwell. Vote: Tony Montana.

[CF Riot]

@Vi: There's no reason to tell you guys either of those things. Neither would help you find scum. It's possible, though not certain, that if I told you one, the other, or both of those things, scum would benefit. That's the reasoning. If a large portion of the town thinks I'm scum I'll do whatever I can to prove you're wrong and explain anything you want to that end. Until then, I think it's best I keep as much info from the scum as possible.

I am curious as to what MafiaSSK got out of the serum, although obviously not sure if it's in our best interest for him to tell us. That's his call. I take it you didn't get to use your new ability, CF Riot?

Why do you assume that SSK's power worked, but assume mine did not?

Did you ever answer this? If so I don't remember it.

[CF Riot]

@Porkens: I don't know. Maybe. I think serum-vigging him might be better. There is a chance he's telling the truth, in which case his power might be useful tonight for one of the lurkers who are really hard to read at this point. If he gives a guilty result good, if he gives a townish sounding result and then flips scum from serum-overdose, it narrows the field suspects while still letting us lynch other people for information. What would you say in support of lynching him vs. serum-killing him or otherwise leaving him alone?

What do you think about the 4 lurkers? Which is most scummy, and do you agree with my lynch and synth votes?
----

Ort, who would you serum if it were up to you?

Ort, opinion?

On straw-manning I suppose we're both right. I was getting my definition from this:

Also, "Strawmanning" involves taking a small piece of the case someone has built up that is weaker than their other points and blowing it up. They can then defeat the weaker point and use that as 'proof' that everything that person has said is wrong.

But I did see that your definition is correct. I feel like I am not misrepping your case though. It feels like I've addressed everything you've said (which is a lot) so I don't think I could misrep all of it to my own benefit.

On getting a claim out of me, what do you think are the benefits and the drawbacks? Consider you do get me to claim, and I lay out something vaguely similar to the town PMs already given. It seems townish, but very unverifiable. You gain very little (IMO) supporting evidence against me, and at the same time very little reason to believe me. The mafia on the other hand (assuming I'm town) can potentially weigh my role against their idea of the rest of the town, and prioritize their kill accordingly. If they find out my steel/flesh status, they either gain a failsafe kill they may need near endgame, or learn not to try it, giving them a higher chance of hitting flesh from another target. I don't think it will help you at all to know my role. I know the likelihood of me getting the serum again is lower than some, but it's not zero. I'd prefer to keep my role hidden until that happens.

[CF Riot]

What I meant was I'm considering giving SSK the serum today, with the idea that after that we will not again. Thus, he gets one more investigation, then death, which will tell us whether the first two were valid or not. I suggest this because the way he talked about his power, who he used it on, his reluctance to come straight out with his result after blatantly describing what he did, all seem to be scummy. However the result itself and his claimed role give me enough doubt to wonder if he's town. Death this way would move us to odd numbers without no lynching, and I think would be slightly more efficient in that respect, as we're choosing the extra death rather than the mafia. I don't think I'd be comfortable with SSK being around in lylo, but I'm too skeptical to lynch him at this point, so the serum-vig seemed like a nice intermediate.

@Ort, yes we could potentially continue seruming SSK if for some reason he came off as incredibly townie after that and prevent the slow death. That is another perk to the plan. I just don't see that as very likely.

On my serum situation, I can tell you now that my role wouldn't be verifiable but it could still be useful. Although getting it again is potential serum-death, if I got it in an endgame situation, then I would be able to use it w/o dying until after the outcome has already been decided. Example: D4, 1 scum, 4 town. I get serumed, say we mislynch, I go into that night with powers and 3 other players alive. One gets NK'd, we go into D5 with (assuming I wasn't the one killed) 1 scum 2 town lylo, so if I die after the lynch it doesn't matter.

Now I'm not saying this is the best play or even what I want to happen. I'm just pointing out that there are scenarios that exist where giving me the serum again would benefit the town, and claiming my ability now may render those scenarios useless.

Next subject, do you see Tony Montana as particularly townish? At this point, would you consider him a good, mediocre, or bad lynch candidate? Why? Who do you think is the best candidate at this point? We only have 4 days till deadline, so I think we need to start making up our minds. I think Tony Montana is lurking horribly, and hasn't done anything particularly protown yet.

@

Porkens

:What would you say in support of lynching him vs. serum-killing him or otherwise leaving him alone?

What do you think about the 4 lurkers? Which is most scummy, and do you agree with my lynch and synth votes?

[CF Riot]

I'm not saying my role will be game breaking ever. I'm just trying to say that you won't gain anything by hearing it, I promise you that. However, I think you could

potentially

lose something. If I don't ever get the serum again that's fine. But my point is you should ask me to claim just because I

probably

won't get the serum again.

Although Grem you caught something I didn't think about. Since I'm for serum-vigging SSK, I'm going to synth him today, so that he'll still be able to die by D3. What do you think of SSK? What do you think of Tony Montana?
----
Porkens, what would you say about a Tony Montana lynch? If you are against, why would your lynch candidate be better? If that candidate is SSK, would you say the serum-vig idea is a good play?
----
Vi, do you think SSK is more likely town or scum, and why? Would you support serum-vigging him? Why do you want to serum me? What do you think of Tony Montana? You never said why you think Illumina is townish. Can you explain?
----
Illumina, what do you think of Tony Montana? Do you still support the serum vig idea?

Unsynth. Synth: MafiaSSK
Extension plz.

[CF Riot]

But my point is you should

not

ask me to claim just because I probably won't get the serum again.

Fixed. Sorry, that goof completely reversed the intended meaning. Do you understand or agree with me in the fixed version?

1) Not enough information. But I don't see a reason for him to hang unless he keeps waffling about the Role PM.
2) No. Serum-vigging him assumes that we actually get something

useful

out of his results if he's Town. As of now he has failed to demonstrate this.
3) To serum-vig

you

.
4) To quote SpyreX's sig, "I always lynch scum... sometimes they're just not Mafia." TonyMontana is begging for a noose, and I would not be surprised if he flips scum, but I think I've a better target for today.
5) Sure. While Illumina has not posted often, I think what has been posted is reasonably pro-Town; including an open mind on Timeater's metal claim and the pros and cons of mycosynthing him (ultimately coming down on the "right" side, given that I know my alignment). I'm not extremely confident in this determination, though. I would like for Illumina to provide a player-by-player assessment soon.

1) Is okay, but I think the waffling that's happened already is enough.
2) and 3) seem to contradict each other. It's been said that if I'm town my results weren't useful either, so why is it okay to vig me but not SSK? What info would you get if I flipped town? I think SSK's power has the potential to be helpful, if he gets lucky on his target. It just depends on how transparent their role is.
4) Eh. I think Pork is town. I don't have great reason to though so I can't really argue this one. All I can say is compromise with me since we're about to be deadlined and you think TM is possible scum anyways.
5) is meh. I don't really have a read either way I just wanted you to back up your claims.
----

Porkens

, can you answer the questions to you from 851?

Votes? Please? Is the whole deadline rush thing really that fun?

[CF Riot]

I have a read on half of the players as town, half as lurkers/probably scum, and SSK as more likely scum than town, but hard to read. Of the 4 lurkers I think Gremwell is most town. (I know this conflicts with my earlier synth vote, but I think I've changed my mind since then.) I'd put it as TM, Geraintm, small gap, Illumina.

SSK dodged again. Just sayin'. And I'm not trying to get the serum at endgame. I think I said that before. I'm just saying, I

could

still get it late-game, and it

could

be helpful. Sure, there may be a much better serum candidate by then, and if so I'll gladly vote them over myself. My only real argument is I don't want to claim yet. It wouldn't help the town at all. If you think I'm scum take whatever measures you want against me. If the whole town wants me lynched, I'll claim. But if you believe me enough to keep me around a little longer, just be patient. I'll claim when I need to.
----

Gremwell

, 851 plz. Who do you want to lynch and why?
----
I'm going ahead with my serum plan unless anyone else has a better idea. No one has really said anything about the serum today, except Vi who wants to kill me with it, which I'm against.

Mod: Votecount Plz.

Serum: MafiaSSK

[CF Riot]

If I reveal my role, and how I used it, it will not make me appear any more or any less townish. Again, if tomorrow, at lylo, hell even today if you're fast enough, if people (plural) think I'm scum, I'll claim. It doesn't help for me to claim in any other scenario. I'm almost to the point of claiming just to get you off my back but you have no reason to believe my claim AND it hurts the town. I'm not asking for a ride to endgame. I'm just saying I don't need to claim until I'm facing death.

Ort, answer me this though. From your role PM, does it look like you will get some power from the serum? I know in mine, it STRONGLY hints at what my ability is, enough to where I

guessed

at what I could do before I got the serum. I REALLY think serum-vigging SSK is a great play, and I've had a few people agree with me. But, I do sort of think you're town now, and it couldn't hurt giving a town player some power. If you really think it'll help, I'll vote to serum you.

[CF Riot]

Unserum. Serum: Ortolan

Money, meet mouth. I'll ignore your last question because I still believe in scum knowing as little as possible. I doubt it would clear me in your eyes. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. And like I said, if you're the only one suspicious of me anyways, I don't need to give you more to think about. I'm not just trying to be difficult, I'm trying to play the safest town game I can. I think it would do you good to at least

consider

the possibility that I'm town, and try to figure out who could be scum if that is the case. At the very least, I could be scum and you could find one of my buddies. Couldn't hurt.

[CF Riot]

Unserum. Serum: Ortolan

/sigh. Codes.

[CF Riot]

I'll vote SSK if I need to. If we're lynching him, we need to synth someone else though. TM would be my first choice. I don't know if Sera is town. Depends on who he picks to serum tonight though.

I'd still most like to lynch TM (nothing protown about him), synth SSK (obv), and serum Ort I guess.

[CF Riot]

He won't. It's deadline. He put it of this long for a reason. He probably won't post til tomorrow.

What do you keep referring to when you say I gave myself a "pass" to endgame? I never said "don't lynch me until later!" I don't know what pass you're talking about. I'm not saying my role would be any stronger in endgame than now either, I just said I obviously couldn't get the serum again until close to endgame or it would kill me.

[CF Riot]

Hmm, okay. We need a votecount. I think you're close enough to getting the serum, so instead of trying to get everyone to frantically switch before deadline, would you vote to synth SSK with me so that if we

do

try to serum-vig him it will actually work?

[CF Riot]

That's good enough.

Unvote. Vote: MafiaSSK

I'm trying to put my votes to where all the actions pass. It

looks

like I'm in the lead for synth though. =S. Didn't see that coming. I doubt I'll get a chance to post again before deadline, so I'm going to go ahead and help y'all out on this one. I'll tell you now that I'm flesh. BUT as I said D1 claiming flesh should not derail a synth wagon, unless you have a great reason to believe the person. I doubt I'm that lucky, so I'll go ahead and...

Unsynth. Synth: CF Riot

[CF Riot]

LYNCH

MafiaSSK (5)

- CF Riot, Illumina, Porkens, TonyMontana, Vi
CF Riot (1) - Geraintm

No vote

: Gremwell,

MafiaSSK

, Ortolan, Seraphim

SERUM

Ortolan (6)

- CF Riot, Gremwell, Illumina, Ortolan, Porkens, Vi
TonyMontana (1) - TonyMontana

No vote

: Geraintm,

MafiaSSK

, Seraphim

SYNTH

CF Riot (6)

- CF Riot, Gremwell, Ortolan, Porkens, TonyMontana, Vi
MafiaSSK (1) - Geraintm
Tony Montana (1) - Illumina
Ortolan (1) - Seraphim

No vote

:

MafiaSSK

This is my unofficial count. It's in alphabetical order, not chronological. It was easier for me that way. If I didn't miss anything, we're heading for a no-lynch. Ort, you're not voting SSK still by the way. Notice, SSK isn't voting anyone for anything. (If he's not scum, this is super-unhelpful.)

[CF Riot]

I willing to bet it won't matter, because there's no way you're going to get 4 other people to switch there vote that fast this close to deadline. Look at SSK. He's not voting AT ALL. If he's town, he's holding us back, and there's a good chance that this much isn't even true. He's the best lynch now. Maybe he wasn't a week ago, but that doesn't matter anymore. You've got another 4 hours yeah, but I'd feel more comfortable with you getting that vote down so something unexpected doesn't happen that keeps us from getting a lynch today.

[CF Riot]

Nati

can you confirm/correct the info in the first post that says Ortolan has been serumed 0 times?

I was actually leaning towards town on Grem based on how he suggested redoing the random vote D1, which we now know was in the hands of scum at the time. However he wasn't a bad choice.

I'm calling a Geraintm and Tony Montana scum team right now. Illumina got town points from me in post 404, for the same reason I thought Grem was town. Geraintm on the other hand takes the opposite stance in post 410. I'd like to hope my serum vote on Spyre (town) D1 when it was securely in SSK's hands gets me some town points of my own. Just sayin'.

The way SSK handled quoting his PM makes me think a mass-claim is probably a good idea. One thing to note is that now that our serum well is dead our chance of a PR living through the night is severely lowered. I think this makes the drawback of scum knowing what our PRs do a little reduced.

[CF Riot]

Welcome, ortolan.

You are Glissa Sunseeker, town-aligned protagonist. Ever since your birth, you've had a mysterious power to destroy metal. And now you are having these visions of a non-metal world. And then there is the troll Chunth who is telling you you have the spark. Oh, that's not even to mention the

ancient robot deity

that is chasing you. You just want a place to lie down...
Abilities: You have no outstanding abilities at this time.
Win Condition: You win when you are the last faction remaining.

Does the bolded sound anything like Vi's role to you guys? Also, am I the only one who who laughed at the troll being named "Chunth"? (

hint: I took out the h's when I read it.

)

Ort, for the record are you pro-mass claim or against? I'm assuming you're pro since you just quoted your PM but I don't want to put words in your mouth.

[CF Riot]

You thinking mafia recruiter? Or cult maybe?

I dug this up because I remembered hearing someone say it. Doesn't necessarily point directly to TM being scum, but it's worth looking at.

I'm also going to throw even more WIFOM and speculation out there and guess that SSK's ability was what he claimed, but that he actually used it on Gremwell, not Vi. Therefore he and his buddies would've known Grem to be metal. This doesn't explain how he died of course, but it may be another piece to the puzzle.

[CF Riot]

This logic is entirely bogus, as it's made in hindsight.

I disagree. I think the logic behind Illumina and Gremwell looking town follows easily enough. The part linking Geraintm to scum is assuming a lot more and it's a lot less solid, because yes he could've had that opinion as town, but I think it's still valid.

By this logic, we should be looking at you unfavorably because you recommended serum-vigging SSK, keeping him alive another night WITH the serum.

This is absolutely right. I can't say anything for that. I'm just going to point to the intention of the plan, which was to kill SSK, at a time when few were calling for his lynch. This was a bad call by me, and can easily be described as scummy.

Are we just going to claim in a random order or what? I was really wanting Geraintm and TM to claim sooner than later, but at this point if anyone is planning on faking a claim they already have enough pieces to do it with. Since that is the case, I'll claim now.

Welcome, CF Riot.

You are a Neurok Spy, town-aligned Spy. Well, since Bruenna is sick at the Krark-Home base, you have been sent to help Glissa in her stead. Maybe your...talents can help in some way.
Abilities: You have no outstanding abilities at this time.
Win Condition: You win when you are the last faction remaining.

I read this and guessed cop. I breadcrumbed here, in my second post after replacing in.

I'm trying to

c

atch

up whenever the

o

pportunity

finally decides to

p

resent

itself. Middle of page

4

.

The 4 was the key. First letter of every 4th word. However, it turned out I guessed wrong, and I actually became a tracker.

As you go to hide during the night, a crowd of moth-like creatures surround you. Soon, you feel a strange feeling. Then, time seems to slow. The world feels...different. It's obvious, you have ascended to the next level.

You have been serumed!

Using your powers as a spy, you can follow someone tonight, learning who, if anyone, they target.

PS: No, this is not a screw up. You are serumed.

Wall-E did not target anyone last night.

I targeted Wall-E following up on my suspicion of him D1. This turned out to be a dumb idea since he had already claimed flesh. This is why I said claiming what my ability did would

a)

not help the town at all,

b)

not confirm me at all, and

c)

could still be useful later, like when there are less people to track, thus increasing my chance of tracking the mafia kill.

Ort, did you target anyone at all last night?

Vi, who do you think the next scum is?

[CF Riot]

Only because Ill seems the most townish of the three, I'll say she can go last. If it seems apparent that one or both of TM and Geraintm are scum, then maybe we'll let her by without claiming. However, if things get cloudy, then you may have to claim anyways.

Ill, consider this. With 4 of the remaining 7 players having already claimed, and you saying you think your role is too important to claim it, do you think you might have just made yourself as much a scum target as if you'd said what it did directly? By that I mean, do you think you're more of a target claiming than by saying "My role is too strong to claim,"?
----
Vi, to answer a question you made a while back, SSK claimed Neurok Scryer, but it turned out that he was lying. He was a Vedalken Engineer.

[CF Riot]

It's not. I want you to claim right now.

[CF Riot]

Wow, deadline is quick.

Vote: Tony Montana
Serum: Porkens
Synth: Geraintm

Anyone want to make some speculation about Gremwell being a "Death-Mask Duplicant, Town-Aligned Metal Body Double"? I hadn't thought about it until now but the whole body double thing might be linked to why he's dead. Something to consider while we wait on the scum to post.

Vi, why would you like to synth Illumina rather than Geraintm?
Illumina, who would you like to synth/lynch and why?

[CF Riot]

Unvote. Vote: Vi

I'm blaming Grem's death on you. I think Ort is Glissa. You were the other one to be serumed last night. I still like my synth on Geraintm.

Ort, I had thought I would get cop, but it turned out I got tracker. I tracked Wall-E the night he died. He didn't target anyone.

On the claims.
Nim Lasher is a black card (bad omen) and the flavor text says "The rotting metal feeds the necrogen mists, and in turn the mists feed the nim." This implies metal (Memnarch's side) is a good thing for Nim Lasher. It also doesn't look like Nim Lasher is a metal creature, although Illumina claims steel.

Moriok Scavenger is also black. "Many go to Mephidross in search of lost riches. Most end up as part of the cache." I can't read anything from this.

Mycosynth Golem is an artifact card with no flavor text.

[CF Riot]

If you give me the serum today you MUST give it to me tomorrow or it's game over for town (unless we hit scum today and tomorrow, which is possible.) I'd like to give Pork a chance to use his power if he wants it, but in the event that we hit scum today the tracker power would be good tonight in that it could clear someone (if I live.) If we don't hit scum, it's WIFOMy because a null result could mean the partner sent the kill.

Vi, I don't doubt you can double vote, but Triskelion was a 3 armed robo-thingy. It also said he could fire off arms to kill creatures. It made flavor sense to me that if the serum activated your arms, you could've fired off one at Grem and used the other today to gain double-voting.

TM I actually think you're only at L-2 since I unvoted.

Illumina I was not calling you scum. I haven't voted you or tried to synth you. I'm merely explaining my take on your claim. If you'll notice, TM's card is black too, so that's not really a point against you any more than him. Also I just looked up SSK's card for the first time and it was blue like mine, so color isn't a huge factor but it's something to consider. I didn't "selectively quote" anything. I went by what I read. The passage you linked to

sort of

implies metal. It also says your character is in constant conflict with the Aurioks, which is what Wall-E was. It also says you are controlled by Geth, the same person who supposedly told TM to kill Glissa. I think these are more points against you than what I brought up earlier. So maybe I am calling you scum now.

I'm going to totally flip flop on my earlier prediction and go with a new guess of Vi + Illumina team, which would explain his baseless defense of her when he first replaced into the game and post 954. The thing that troubles me here is Illumina's town cred from when she suggested redoing the serum N1 still hangs in the back of my mind. All in all I'm really confused and I think I need to post less and let my fellow townies back me up, but that's just not my style. =P

Unsynth. Synth: Illumina.

[CF Riot]

@Vi on your second to last paragraph I had actually considered that. So I don't cry WIFOM at you because I went through the same thought process.
The paragraph before that one doesn't make sense.

Meanwhile, considering you're the one who showed me why Illumina was probably Town by the serum wagon, I'm not sure why you're bashing me for coming to the same conclusion upon rereading - because your most recent flavor logic contradicts it!

If you formed a town opinion of Illumina based on what I said, it should've occured before you placed that vote. I'm also not against your opinion of her now, I'm more worried about when you first replaced TE, and declared Illumina to be townish when she had posted very very little.

[CF Riot]

I wrote a big, beautiful post in the school library, and then my screen went black. So I may try it again later but for now I need to study for my Chem final so this the short version, or my conclusions.

I think Vi and TM are NOT scum together. I think 2 of Vi, TM, Illumina, and Geraintm are scum. On play alone, Illumina looks town to me. On flavor and claim confusion and her ties to Vi, Ill looks scummish.

Because of this, I think Vi is the best lynch today. If he flips scum, it semi-confirms TM (IMO) and also implicates Illumina. If he flips town, it really doesn't say anything about TM, but sort of restores my faith in Illumina.

The thing that I'm contemplating now is whether we should synth Ill or Geraintm. If it's a TM/Geraintm combo and TM is actually steel-claiming-flesh, then we would be screwed tomorrow if we tried to lynch him. So maybe synth Geraintm today and if Vi flips scum then synth Ill tomorrow because we won't be in LYLO in that scenario and a mislynch would be okay. What say you town?

Natirasha: Will you confirm that the information in the first post is correct? If not, will you fix it?

What I'm referring to is it says Ort has been serumed 0 times. I want to know if that's right.

[CF Riot]

Unvote.

on phone.

[CF Riot]

I'm totally changing my mind just about every time I post, but I thought the whole synth thing over again. Vi is confirmed flesh. If we mislynch today (whoever it is) then we're in LYLO tomorrow. I think it would be to our advantage to have more than one confirmed flesh tomorrow so that we have some flexibility after whatever happens today and tonight. So I

was

sort of thinking a TM lynch to test his flesh claim, and because we're all still semi-suspicious of him anyways. This goes along with my last post asking about who to synth but no one has answered that yet so cosider them almost the same question.

That was written before Porkens posted (and before I got on the phone). This is when I was thinking one or the other of Vi and TM were probably mafia. I'm not sure if I think that now. I'm still considering that it might be a good idea though.

Mod:

This game is fun. =]

[CF Riot]

Unsynth.

I've got to go to bed or I'm gunna crash in my Chem test tomorrow morning, so I'm going to take my synth vote down for now. I plan on posting again before deadline or lynch.

Porkens and Vi are detectives. I've got room for improvement in this game.

[CF Riot]

Aww, you guys got in a hurry after I left. =( .

Porkens, please don't doubt me now. We've come too far for that. The only reason I was iffy about being serumed is that'd put me at the 2x mark and I'd need it every night after that. Anyone who decided not to trust me after the fact would kill me and that'd be another townie death.

I think Geraintm just hammered his buddy to save himself from being synthed. I don't think my votes would do anything now so I'll just say that if Illumina really was metal and we get a no-lynch today, tomorrow it would be a good idea to intentionally no-lynch to put us in a 3/2 lylo instead of a 4/2 lylo. Plus it would give us an extra synth and possibly (though not probably) another serum use.

[CF Riot]

CF Riot: Initially is against SSK's reluctance to claim, and pressures him to fullclaim in 756. Eventually decided to try synthing SSK and serum-vigging him while not sure of his alignment. As the SSK wagon builds, he seems against his lynch,

saying that "SSK will claim as he gets in trouble" (paraphrasing 880)

.

The part in bold is a misquote. Ort kept saying we should just wait until SSK showed up and claimed, and I repeatedly told him, as worded from 880, "He won't. It's deadline. He put it of this long for a reason. He probably won't post til tomorrow." I was saying SSK was avoiding claiming intentionally.

Pork/Ort, we can't really do anything about it now, but I'll give my thoughts on the serum situation again. My thinking was that Pork thought his power would be fairly powerful/useful. He's been solidly pro-town to me from the start, so I was all for giving him the serum. I never really was against giving it to me, I only warned that if you did there could be no cold feet tomorrow if something weird happened tonight. I actually almost asked for the serum solely on the idea that whoever gets the serum tonight is a high priority target for scum, and I was still slightly suspect to some people. I figured forcing the scum to attack me might take some stress of the town tomorrow. I just never really argued that point and I guess I should have.

Pork you said something about me (if I were scum) wanting more fleshies for my scum motives. This is flawed in that we've all mass-claimed, so if I were scum I would know who my easy targets were already.

Everything said, I think since our votes are locked on serum/synth, Vi would be a much better lynch today than Geraintm. Yes, it would make sense for Ger to claim steel if he was flesh scum, but I don't see any point in risking it.

Also,

Mod

, I remember this. It sort of conflicts with your ruling now.

Mod:

If Tuber is not getting replaced, can we undo the majority serum vote on him by unvoting/voting a new candidate?

FOR THE FINAL TIME

If you want to change votes, you must unvote.
If you want to change serums, you must unserum.
If you want to change mycosynths, you must unmycosynth.

Mod

Sorry the town is so repetitive. I was just wondering if majorities on serums/mycos were final and unchangable like a majority on lynches. Which I now see they are not.

I'll hammer Vi when everyone is ready. Vi, if you've got last words you better get 'em out there.

[CF Riot]

If each scum is claiming the opposite of what they really are (metal/flesh) we're basically screwed (ie, forced into a mylo situation) unless we call the bluff of one scum today.

This is wrong if you are scum, because we're synthing you today. If it's Ger/TM and TM is really steel, then yes we're probably screwed. We'll cross that bridge when we get there though.

[CF Riot]

Hmm, I was about to hammer. Thanks for the extra time Nati.

Illumina, if Geraintm's role, or his possible safeclaim role, were actually the Mycosynth Golem and he really was metal, and he couldn't think up convincing flavor text to another card on his own, I think he would need to claim metal still. That is to say, he couldn't claim, "I'm the artifact card Mycosynth Golem, but I'm flesh." I think that would draw suspicion. Since Mycosynth Golem is really a card, and really an artifact, I don't think the whole idea of being mycosynth and steel is suspicious. It doesn't seem to contradict itself to me. Therefore, I think he really is steel, and not flesh claiming steel.

1080 Snowboarding was a video game too right? That little edit made me laugh. I laughed more when Ort asked if it was mafia terminology. =P (Sorry I'm picking on you Ort.) By the way, if you don't want Vi lynched right now you should unvote.

It's sooo hard for me to know Vi got serumed last night when we had an extra kill and not lynch him today. I would rather lynch TM than try to lynch Geraintm to test the metal claim. I might actually like to lynch TM anyways. If Vi is scum, I think it's with Illumina. That's all there is to it. TM however could go with Ill or Ger. That makes me think TM may yield more information.

I realize I'm playing this game the complete wrong way now.

[CF Riot]

TM, yeah you're right. I missed both your unvote and Ort's unvote I guess.

In my mind, the lynch choices today are Vi or TM. We straight up can't lynch Illumina. I think it's more likely that Ger is steel than flesh, and I don't think it would be a good idea to test this theory because if I'm right we'll be back at even numbers tomorrow which will makes us all want to no-lynch again tomorrow. That would mean scum gets 2 night kills (they pick who dies) and then we're in lylo. Or, we could lynch today and (if town flip) scum gets only 1 NK, then we're in lylo. Therefore, lynch > no lynch, and the possibility of Ger being flesh doesn't narrow that gap enough for me.

If TM flips scum, I think Vi is town. Ill is the logical lynch tomorrow cause he'll be flesh. If TM flips town, we spend tomorrow arguing about who's scummier between Ill and Vi.

[CF Riot]

Okay deadline is tonight. We need to make up our minds. For me, it's:
lynch TM>/=lynch Vi>>>lynch Ger/possible no-lynch.

I've flip-flopped on who's the better lynch of TM and Vi a few times now so they're practically equal. I think TM could be partnered with Ill or Ger, and I think Vi would be paired only with Vi, so I think a TM lynch is safer. Then again you have to account for Vi possibly being the SK, and if he is then lynching him is safer because there will be fewer kills. However, I think given the situation, Hypothetical-SK needs to aim for mafia tonight to increase his chance of winning in endgame, so that's partial reason to leave Vi.

On the whole even odd thing, if you have 4 town 2 scum you have a 33.3% chance of hitting scum, ignoring deductive evidence from the game. If you have 3 town 2 scum (odd) you have 40.0% chance of hitting scum. If we no-lynched today, then assuming only 1 NK tonight, it would be to the town's advantage to no-lynch again tomorrow to put us back at odd numbers. However, that means scum gets to NK two nights in a row with no lynches. I would rather lynch today and let the scum only get 1 NK, and still be at odd numbers.

Mod: Vote Count plz

[CF Riot]

Ill, of TM or Vi, who would you rather lynch today, if Ger was completely off the table?

Ger what about you, TM or Vi if they were the only two options?

I also meant to say earlier that I've seen games where when 1 scum dies, the remaining team members get an extra kill that night. Just sayin'.

[CF Riot]

I might favor Vi if it weren't for the possibility of insta-loss tonight,

Why do you think this would be insta-lose? You think that Vi is town AND there will still be 2 NK's tonight if he's dead?

How do we "test" TM's flesh claim by lynching him? If he's telling the truth he...dies.

And? What would be wrong with that?

No one has given a good reason for no-lynching today. I don't see what it would get us. That said, given Pork's views on the SK present doomsday predictions, I'm fine lynching Vi. If he flips town, I'm seriously hoping there will only be 1 NK tonight, and then we'll be back at 5 tomorrow with 2 scums. Not terrible odds for town.

Vote: Vi

L-1

[CF Riot]

my tinfoil hat is screaming at me about CF

Why?

[CF Riot]

Bah/Go town! That was scary. Dying when Porkens got serumed actually made me think Pork would be scum for a second. Who said we should lynch TM yesterday huh!? Yeah, that's right.

I'm definitely anxious for those mod notes. This game was really complicated. Fun though.

Also, Porkens your new avatar is

creepy

.

[CF Riot]

Would've saved us some headache, I'll tell ya that. SSK really did investigate TE? That was a waste. I made some serious flubs this game. Definitely not my best performance.

Pork were you really getting suspicious of me near endgame? Why?

What was the

real

deal with the whole "Capital T" thing, and what does everyone think about how it impacted the game? I think it was sort of bad, but at the same time it didn't really hurt Illumina (she won) or Geraintm (got eaten) and Tony actually wrote his fake PM correctly and still bit the dust for it, so I don't think it was as disruptive as it could've been. I actually would've pushed for a TM lynch harder if the capital T issue never came up, so in a way I think it sort of helped scum.

[CF Riot]

I wrote up a fairly sizable post earlier that my family promptly closed the window on when I got up from the computer. Basically, it said:

• Fun game Nati. Really liked it. The only-kills-metal-SK really balanced things nicely.
  Sera, sorry you had to claim. I knew you were town as soon as I got powers, but there was no way the town was going to let you buy after what you had said.
  Pork, what made me scummy near endgame?
  Vi, you really played good, you just inherited a crappy situation and then caught some bad luck when Illumina killed the same night you got serumed. Had you been in the game from the start, I doubt you would've caught nearly as much heat as you did.

GGs all around.

Pork, Spyre, I'll see you guys in Netlava's game soon. ;]