Mini 709 - Musical Mafia - (Game Over!)

[JordanA24]

Hmm, a third vote at this stage isn't really too bad imo

Vote: zachattack

for being jumpy.

[JordanA24]

FOS: Gamma

, 3 votes ain't much, but 4 is somewhat more serious (3 from a lynch after all). Was that a random vote Gamma?

Vote Count:
Atlas - (3) Wall-E, Budja, Gamma
Budja - (2) zachattack, corporate
corporate - (1) WhereIsTony
Gamma - (1) Nekka-Lucifer
jerseygoomba - (1) Tolmides
JordanA24 - (0)
My Milked Eek - (0)
Nekka-Lucifer - (0)
Tolmides - (0)
Wall-E - (0)
WhereIsTony - (1) Atlas
zachattack - (2) jerseygoomba, JordanA24

With 12 alive, 7 votes will end the day.

[JordanA24]

Jordan, I'm not so sure I would even make a deal about lynch-3. It actually looks a bit more suspicious that Wall-E tried to jumpstart an Atlas bandwagon so quickly.

It's pretty rare for someone to get 4 votes during the random vote stage, -3 usually signifies some intent behind the vote. -3 is fairly risky territory, it only takes a couple more people to put Atlas in serious danger, and ofc if you're on that many votes, players tend to get nervous and may make mistakes, which can cause a more serious bandwagon on that player to form, a player who already has 4 votes to their name, it can be quite a deadly chain reaction. Gamma might have been trying to set that up to happen, hence the FOS.

[JordanA24]

Oh Good God Gamma...

I'm not really pleased with the roleclaim, but then again, I don't think we have any reason to disbelieve it either.

Did you read the thread before you cast your vote on Atlas? And yes, we are still suspicious about -3, ofc we are.

I think it's pretty cool how i was drunk as hell and i still had the balls to post my role.

I'm sorry but that screams cover up.

And yet in the same post, you take your vote off him... and put it onto another player, and your reason for voting him is for not being suspicious of the player you took your vote off?? What's going on here?

[JordanA24]

atlas, i know our objective is to find scum, but it feels like you jump on every little thing. maybe im over reacting but it just seems like youre pickyness comes across as over compensating.

maybe im just naive and believe too many people. you could just be a overly helpful townie. but i dunno....

FoS atlas

for making me feel like he is keeping attention off of himself by putting it everywhere else.

Can you say wishy washy?

[JordanA24]

what instrument does everyone play, anyway?

(hoping this isn't a mod-kill trigger; just curious. If Clarinet is nekka-lucifer, then somebody's probably flute, etc.)

Terrible terrible suggestion, if we did this, scum could deduce who has power roles and such.

Milk's case on Gamma in Post 108, though it does make sense somewhat, I don't think should be followed, at least not today. As Wally said, even if he is an SK, if we force him to eliminate our 2nd biggest suspect, then we still have him working for the town anyway, so there's no point getting rid of him now. If he is an SK, we can use him and get rid of him at a later date. If he's Mafia, if he kills our target, we have the scum doing our job, and the kill looks like a mafia kill rather than an SK kill too, if the Mafia don't kill who we want them to kill, we lynch Gamma tomoz, bye-bye scum.

Where's the involvement of other power roles? Doctors? Roleblockers? The possibility of the victims of the vig and the scum being the same? The scum not sending in a kill? Why is he still alive on D2? Why wasn't he roleblocked? Etc... Etc... (all hypothetical)

Anybody who protects the proposed victim/roleblocks Gamma etc would be stupid. I doubt any even remotely sane power role wouldn't do that.

While I'm pissing people off questioning their activity, on page 2 a lot of suspicion was being placed on jersey, up until Gammas vig claim. Since Gamma's claimed vig, he's only posted twice.

QFT, jersey needs to speak up more.

Not liking Wally's sarcasm and belittlement in his posts at all, he's just attacking Milk instead of his arguments.

FOS: Wall-E

OK zach, what was so wishy washy about it? I pointed out that I don't think we can trust Gamma to do the right thing by the town. (I agree with Budja that SK actually makes sense with his stance). I'm not convinced that he is mafia but he poses just as much of a threat as the mafia does. So for now, I'm gonna join Budja and

vote Gamma

How can he pose a threat to the town if we direct him? You're not really contributing anything, and you said the classic scum saying "for now", so that if this bandwagon grinds to a halt, you can just take your vote off freely.

i agree we keep gamma alive. i like having a vig on our side.

and wall e? your case is week. infact its a blatant lie. i didnt vote atlas for anything. i fosed him, just as well as i can fos anyone. its my job to be suspicious of everyone and look out for the town.

fuck me sideways if i dont play how you would like me to. and if there is a omgus here its from atlas for voting me after i fosed him. then instead of him pushing my pressure youre doing it now.

as for your #44 atlas, i ignored it cuz i think its just plain silly. you have your opinions. i have mine. i dont feel like arguing for pages over something thats not vital.

WHAT??? You can't ignore a case just because you think it's silly...

Actually, I don't like this post in general, first paragraph is parroting, the end second paragraph sounds like he's trying too hard to sound like a townie and start of the third paragraph it looks like you're trying to scare people off voting you.

FOS: corporate

I also notice my random vote is still on

Unvote

[JordanA24]

Wally, there is a lot more than that to comment on, just calm dowm and stop being sarcy

[JordanA24]

Wall-e has been very brash and angry in this thread, which actually makes me think he's town. Scum wouldn't be trying to bring as much attention to themselves as Wall-e is.

Or it could mean that he's scum who's annoyed at being called out.

I'd like to see Tolmides post more original content, a lot of his posts have consisted mainly of agreeing with what others have said and putting what others have basically said in his own words. Tony, same thing to you.

Tony mentioning the word block was indeed suspicious, I didn't like that, but in my opinion, Wall-e blown it out of all proportion, possibly in an attempt to take the heat off him.

corporate, what has Tony done that is so protown? He's made one questionably good point, how does that make him definatly protown? You're starting to look pretty scummy to me, a lot of your cases are reading like BS, in particular your Posts 154 (which was voting someone based on just theory and guessing what Wall-E was going to do next rather than actual fact) and Posts 174 and 186 just read like conspiracy theories against him.

Oh and Mod, I'm not voting for Wall-E, I FOSed him earlier, but voting for no-one.

Fixed.

[JordanA24]

I'd still like to hear a real explanation from Wall-E of why thinking an sk is in this game sucks.

Setup conjecture? Really, is that your only refute?

Please answer to all the points in the sk probability case. You not wanting, and plain out refusing, to answer to the case in its details, makes you very suspicious.

While we're at it, here's a open challenge to the denizens of Musical Mafia: find as many setups as you can that feature:

-Vig

-Vig and roleblocker

-SK

-SK and roleblocker

This just screams of pointless and "lets distract the town away from the current subject".

[JordanA24]

I'd still like to hear a real explanation from Wall-E of why thinking an sk is in this game sucks.

Setup conjecture? Really, is that your only refute?

Please answer to all the points in the sk probability case. You not wanting, and plain out refusing, to answer to the case in its details, makes you very suspicious.

While we're at it, here's a open challenge to the denizens of Musical Mafia: find as many setups as you can that feature:

-Vig

-Vig and roleblocker

-SK

-SK and roleblocker

This just screams of pointless and "lets distract the town away from the current subject".

How so? I'm interested in MME's probabilities.

There are tons of setups that'll feature those roles, in particular the options with single roles. It's likely that we'll end up with an equal amount of checks in each of the similar (singular and "with roleblocker" options) and using other setups to try and find out what's in this setup is a very poor and ineffective strategy anyway, every mod is different, and this setup easily go against the general trend anyway. Allowing the trends shown in other games to try and judge what to do in this one is generally a dangerous road we should steer clear of, in case this game is very different, it's much simpler and effective to just use our brains and logic to find out who is scum instead.

[JordanA24]

I'd still like to hear a real explanation from Wall-E of why thinking an sk is in this game sucks.

Setup conjecture? Really, is that your only refute?

Please answer to all the points in the sk probability case. You not wanting, and plain out refusing, to answer to the case in its details, makes you very suspicious.

While we're at it, here's a open challenge to the denizens of Musical Mafia: find as many setups as you can that feature:

-Vig

-Vig and roleblocker

-SK

-SK and roleblocker

This just screams of pointless and "lets distract the town away from the current subject".

How so? I'm interested in MME's probabilities.

There are tons of setups that'll feature those roles, in particular the options with single roles. It's likely that we'll end up with an equal amount of checks in each of the similar (singular and "with roleblocker" options) and using other setups to try and find out what's in this setup is a very poor and ineffective strategy anyway, every mod is different, and this setup easily go against the general trend anyway. Allowing the trends shown in other games to try and judge what to do in this one is generally a dangerous road we should steer clear of, in case this game is very different, it's much simpler and effective to just use our brains and logic to find out who is scum instead.

Jordan gets 1,000,000 town points for agreeing with me in his own words. It shows he isn't just parroting my points.

Go Jordan!

Where have you said something similar to that?

In fact, you've tried a similar sort of trick to try to prove your points:

in most games mafia have a blocker,

Really? Hm. Can you provide some evidence? Show me three games where the mafia had a blocker.

Any three.

I will show you two for every one of yours that don't without breaking a sweat.

See, you were trying to use other games to try to influence this one too.

[JordanA24]

Wall-E, what makes you think Nekka is scummier than corporate?

Guts.

Umm...I don't exactly feel comfortable with making life or death decisions based solely on guts. I actually prefer some logic go behind things.

QFT, please explain using reasoning why you believe Nekka to be scummier, before you seemed almost certain corporate was scum.

won't the dialogue tell us.

I have never played a game on this forum, with a vigilante.

Does it just tell us who is dead and not the role that killed him?

The mod won't tell us what roles killed who, but some mods mention certian kill methods that stay consistent with the same killing group (eg. shot=mafia kill, stabbed=SK kill is fairly ordinary). Some mods just say "such and such was killed", so we wouldn't be able to tell.


K Tolmides, that's fine.

Tony, why did you think we should have lynched Gamma?

[JordanA24]

dsfargeg.

Everyone seems satisfied with a wall-e lynch, but...

list of players that nobody, for the most part has given a rat's ass about this game

JordanA24
Tolmides
WhereIsTony
zachattack

What's those random letters at the top of your post all about?

Day 1 tends to be flavour of the month orientated. With no really good information to go by, only players who make slip-ups and stuff like that tend to be talked about.

[JordanA24]

Wall-E, your behaviour is ridiculous... calm down, stop being sarcy, stop insulting every other player and PLAY THE DAMN GAME! It would help your case a lot.

Should we choose to lynch Wall-E today, who does everyone think we should get Gamma to NK tonight? Personally I'm torn between corporate and jerseygoomba, I suspect jersey for mindlessly putting Wall-E at -1 at the top of this page, following Budja in voting for Gamma for exactly the same reasoning (so bandwagoning on an easy target who can be of a lot of use to the town) and generally not bringing anything new to the thread. He's attempting to stay under the radar by the looks of it, which looks pretty scummy.

[JordanA24]

Wall-E's aggressive play makes me think he's more likely to be an angry and erratic townie (I'm placing the first call on him being a paranoid gun owner) than scum.

Trying to guess people's roles on Day 1 is a big no-no. If he wants to claim, then he can, but by guessing what role he is, if Wall-E is scum, you're giving him ideas what to claim (which looks scummy on your part, makes you too look like scumbuddies). And if Wall-E isn't scum, it gives the real scum ideas at what Wall-E might be.

FOS: Tolmides

[JordanA24]

EBWOP: I agree when you say we need to decide 100% on Gamma's target before we lynch anyone, this is why I was so suspicious of jersey for putting him at -1, and why I'm witholding my vote on Wall-E (otherwise, I'd have voted him at the end of Post 267).

[JordanA24]

Wall-E's aggressive play makes me think he's more likely to be an angry and erratic townie (I'm placing the first call on him being a paranoid gun owner) than scum.

Trying to guess people's roles on Day 1 is a big no-no. If he wants to claim, then he can, but by guessing what role he is, if Wall-E is scum, you're giving him ideas what to claim (which looks scummy on your part, makes you too look like scumbuddies). And if Wall-E isn't scum, it gives the real scum ideas at what Wall-E might be.

FOS: Tolmides

I guess I should have make it clearer I was kidding around with that particular comment. I wasn't seriously suggesting he was a paranoid gun owner, because I don't see why somebody with that role would act like he's acting in the day. I was just saying that he was acting like a REAL paranoid gun owner would (i.e. somebody out in the real world, not on mafiascum or in a mafia game) in that he is "shooting" anybody who questions him and is being very confrontational.

Ah alright, sorry for not realising that.

[JordanA24]

Guys, do you SERIOUSLY think you have any "control" over Gamma? Especially when there is no concrete ways of validating who killed who? We don't even know if Gamma's claim is true. I think we are deluding ourselves if we think we can point Gamma like a gun and "shoot" people. That being said, I'm not convinced Gamma is scum, which is why I unvoted him.

As for my vote on Wall-E, I have thought he was scum for awhile, and he put out the challenge in post 130. I wanted to see if he would actually claim like he said in his post and I found it interesting that he didn't. (Not suspicious, just interesting).

Jordan and Tolmides, I'm not sure what I have done to earn your NK votes, so please come up with some logical rationale.

I think you need to read Post 267 closer jersey

[JordanA24]

Wall-E, your behaviour is ridiculous... calm down, stop being sarcy, stop insulting every other player and PLAY THE DAMN GAME! It would help your case a lot.

Should we choose to lynch Wall-E today, who does everyone think we should get Gamma to NK tonight? Personally I'm torn between corporate and jerseygoomba, I suspect jersey for mindlessly putting Wall-E at -1 at the top of this page, following Budja in voting for Gamma for exactly the same reasoning (so bandwagoning on an easy target who can be of a lot of use to the town) and generally not bringing anything new to the thread. He's attempting to stay under the radar by the looks of it, which looks pretty scummy.

Why, in the first part of this post, do you ask "Should we lynch Wall-E today?"

Did you know the votecount at the time?

I did not ask "Should we lynch Wall-E today?", I asked "Who should we NK if we lynch Wall-E today?"

I also notice you posted your top two. Why is the possibility of my lynch just as weighty in your mind as TWO other people you suspect are scum more than me, to the extent that the opinion of the general town consensus will convince you to forget BOTH of them and instead vote for me, a third choice?

I never said those were my top two and you were my third choice IN FACT I said in Post 271 I said if you weren't at -2 then, I'd have been voting you, hence indicating that you were my top suspect. Stop twisting my words scum-butt.

And now I can,

Vote: Wall-E

[JordanA24]

Not between you and Wall-E.

If you had to put one in front of the other, who would be your first choice?

[JordanA24]

Vote Count:
Atlas - (0)
Budja - (1) Wall-E
corporate - (0)
Gamma - (0)
jerseygoomba - (1) Atlas
JordanA24 - (0)
My Milked Eek - (0)
Nekka-Lucifer - (4) zachattack, Tolmides, Budja, WhereIsTony
Tolmides - (0)
Wall-E - (5) Nekka-Lucifer, My Milked Eek, corporate, jerseygoomba, JordanA24
WhereIsTony - (0)
zachattack - (0)

With 12 alive, 7 votes will end the day.

Unvote: Vote: Budja

Voting one person while claiming another is scummier.

Fuck my grandmother, there are way too many scummy townies in this game.

Why did you say you were going to give Budja a chance to explain, and then change your vote to him a mere 12 minutes later?

Trying to guess people's roles on Day 1 is a big no-no. If he wants to claim, then he can, but by guessing what role he is, if Wall-E is scum, you're giving him ideas what to claim (which looks scummy on your part, makes you too look like scumbuddies). And if Wall-E isn't scum, it gives the real scum ideas at what Wall-E might be.

FOS: Tolmides

I see this as very much grasping at straws.

fos JordanA24

How is it grasping at straws, it was a fair point if you ask me. And if I was going to try grasping at straws, why would I bother risking going after someone who hasn't got much attention from the rest of the town? Surely it'd have been more logical to go after someone like Nekka, corporate or Wall-E with crap reasoning, less chance of it being called out that way.

[JordanA24]

I don't understand why you would not vote your biggest suspect. Can you explain?

Not directed at me but
Sometimes a vote can be used to pressure, and sometimes even your biggest suspect is pretty uncertain.

right now, YOU are my biggest suspect, but I really think it may be because others don't post much.

So right now I am voting for nekka because of his lurkish ways

Why are you answering other people's questions?

How is it grasping at straws, it was a fair point if you ask me. And if I was going to try grasping at straws, why would I bother risking going after someone who hasn't got much attention from the rest of the town? Surely it'd have been more logical to go after someone like Nekka, corporate or Wall-E with crap reasoning, less chance of it being called out that way.

Surely it's not wifom if I pull some popular names out of the hat to disguise the fact I'm talking about a player who is allegedly trying to allegedly guess another player's alleged role by saying "I think he's too erratic to be scum".

It would be nice if people would take things for face value every once in a while.

Sorry, but could you make that a little easier to follow?

[JordanA24]

Alright, I'll follow my gut instinct.

unvote, vote Wall-E

I just didn't want the day to end before Nekka posted. WhereIsTony is about right in what I mean to do.

Nekka still hasn't posted, and yet you've put Wall-E at -1???

Talk about trying to rush the lynch, this is easily the scummiest thing that's happened all day.

Unvote Vote: Budja

[JordanA24]

Oh whoops , to be honest I didn't know. I guess I should have counted.

unvote

I most definitely do not want to rush which is why I unvoted Wall-E in the first place.

Why didn't you check the vote count first? Surely that's a very important thing to do before voting somebody you know has got a lot of votes. You might have been hammering him for all you knew.

[JordanA24]

Oh whoops , to be honest I didn't know. I guess I should have counted.

unvote

I most definitely do not want to rush which is why I unvoted Wall-E in the first place.

Why didn't you check the vote count first? Surely that's a very important thing to do before voting somebody you know has got a lot of votes. You might have been hammering him for all you knew.

why didn't you budga did not just put wally at l-1 he put him at l-2

No, Budja put him at -1, you unvoted Wall-E earlier, but then I voted for him to put him back at -2, Budja put him at -1 after that.

[JordanA24]

Well, now Nekka is at 3 votes, and Wall-E is on 4, if I'm correct. I'm keeping my vote on Budja, because atm, I'm not convinced he simply "forgot" to check how many people were voting for Wall-E

[JordanA24]

Nekka's been scum in my book since the middle of this day. Do you think the replacement is going to say other than, "I have no idea why my predecessor did all that scummy stuff!"?

Get real.

Well we can still judge that replacement partly on the stuff Nekka did. Just because he's a new player doesn't mean we'll give him a totally fresh start, I'm sure we all won't just forget Nekka existed.

Your call for a quuicklynch on Nekka pretty much does it for you in my book. A quick call to lynch the only other person it looks likely we'd lynch today, and before we properly discuss who Gamma should kill. Imo, that swings it for me, I vote that you claim (since I cannot vote you without putting you at -1).

[JordanA24]

Wall-E, you're really fucking irritating me now, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Either stop acting like a complete twat, play the fucking game or ask for a replacement, no-one here likes your constant insults and completely illogical play, we're all totally sick of it, please grow up or fuck off

[JordanA24]

Gamma, this is a direct question to you. Who do you think is the best 2 players to lynch/NK. I want your top suspects and reasoning behind it too. And it cannot be just because you disagree with their opinions or they have voted for you.

[JordanA24]

Actually, I extend the above question to everybody. I think it'd be a good idea for everyones opinions so far to be made clear for clarities sake, and so no-one can hide away from the spotlight.

My top two suspects atm are:

Wall-E: For being deliberatly unhelpful towards the town, twisting my words, a hell of a lot of hypocrisy and of course, the reasons outlined in Post 336

Budja: For the -1 vote on Wall-E, and for looking as if he's been trying to stay away from being centre stage the whole game.


Jerseygoomba comes in a close third as well.

[JordanA24]

wall e and atlas.

where the hell is atlas?

Hmm, Atlas hasn't posted on MS for nearly a week now. Is there any reason other than his lurking that you find Atlas scummy?

[JordanA24]

First: Name the hipocrisy (or all of them). Citation or you're tunneling.

You always dismiss very decent cases against you as complete crap, and then wonder out loud why people never build cases against you, and repeatedly ask those who already have made cases against you to do just that. And also, when you accuse someone of being scum, it's always for poor reasons that hardly amount to a case at all

eg.

My scum list is still nekka, corporate and

jordan

. All three of them (as many people have pointed out) have done scummy things.

You call me scum, and yet you have never posted a decent case against me. You've made one point against me, and the evidence you gave in that point was completely false. Also, with Nekka, earlier you voted him because of "guts". Guts is not a case.

Also, you always say other people's ideas and ponts are "inane" and "stupid", and that you're being patient to deal with them, but all you do is reply by attacking the player (and quite often not attacking the case at all, another scummy thing you've done) and using CAPS LOCK a lot.

There's also this too

Second, name the unhelpful thing(s) I've done. Citation or you're tunneling.

As I've said, hardly ever responding to a post without either insulting the player who's raised a fair point, or bringing up a good case yourself. Despite all your posts, you've done very little that has actually contributed in a good way towards the game (i.e good arguments against things raised by other players), that is unhelpful to the town and just takes up post space.

Third, the items in 336:

Nekka's been scum in my book since the middle of this day. Do you think the replacement is going to say other than, "I have no idea why my predecessor did all that scummy stuff!"?

Get real.

Well we can still judge that replacement partly on the stuff Nekka did.

Nothing the replacement can say will affect my decision outside of claiming Cop, which Nekka would have done before leaving (I'd hope).

WHAT?? So you're not even going to give the replacement a chance at all? Just because Nekka decided to leave the game, even though it's fairly likely Nekka really did leave because of personal issues (he just got back from a hiatus, he may have come back too soon to be convenient). For goodness sake are you even trying to look town?

Just because he's a new player doesn't mean we'll give him a totally fresh start, I'm sure we all won't just forget Nekka existed.

There's a reason why lurking works, you know.

Lurking is kinda scummy, therefore, we shall take that into account when judging RF.

Your call for a quuicklynch on Nekka pretty much does it for you in my book. A quick call to lynch the only other person it looks likely we'd lynch today, and before we properly discuss who Gamma should kill. Imo, that swings it for me, I vote that you claim (since I cannot vote you without putting you at -1).

Oh, how easily you just decide on a lynch. You must be the greatest mafia player I've ever met, to catch someone so blantantly doing something scummy!

But!

Given that A) There is nothing the replacement can say that I will believe,

and B) THIS IS A GAME OF OPINIONS, NOT FACTS

I choose to push for Nekka's fastest possible lynch. I want Nekka lynched RIGHT NOW. I can taste Nekka's blood and I love the warm coppery flavor of it in my sharp, sharp teeth.

Firstly, I haven't definatly decided on your lynch, when I said "That swings it", I meant that I've decided you've been scummy enough for me to want you to claim. Although, I do see why that could be misinterpreted.

I've already said why A is just plain ridiculous and, again, totally unhelpful towards the town. I don't even know why you said B...

[JordanA24]

EBWOP: Wall-E, if you feel I am scum, can you please post a case against me?

[JordanA24]

@Jordan, I think I did take centre stage in my argument with Wall-E a few pages back.

You mean Pages 9/10, hmm, I guess that's true sort of, but a few posts against one player isn't a lot, I still think out of the players here, you've contributed less than the majority in the way of decent cases.


Also, Wall-E, if you're so sure Nekka/RF is scum, why aren't you voting for him?

[JordanA24]

Oh, and one more thing (sorry guys, keep getting new thoughts just after I hit the post button), corporate, I want you to post a proper case against Atlas, I know you've said you're lazy, but that doesn't cut it.

[JordanA24]

First: Name the hipocrisy (or all of them). Citation or you're tunneling.

You

always dismiss very decent cases against you as complete crap

, and then wonder out loud why people never build cases against you, and repeatedly ask those who already have made cases against you to do just that. And also, when you accuse someone of being scum, it's always for poor reasons that hardly amount to a case at all

CITATION NEEDED

I am not asking for much. Simply quote me dismissing a case against me as complete crap. I will explain myself. Is this so hard to do? You make it sound like it isn't, but fail to provide examples.

I'm very tempted to quote your response to my case...

But, I shall quote not one, but two other examples of this, to make sure you get and cannot just post "CITATION NEEDED" or some other BS to avoid posting a proper reply:

1)

Wall-E, what makes you think Nekka is scummier than corporate?

Guts.

Umm...I don't exactly feel comfortable with making life or death decisions based solely on guts. I actually prefer some logic go behind things. If that is truly your answer Wall-E, I have to say the band might be better without you. I don't want to bring you to L-1 until we hear from Nekka, so I will refrain for now.

Because one tiny part of my case is supposition I'm scum?

Do you know what WIFOM means?

Everything we do in mafia is subject to WIFOM. I choose to believe the more obvious of two minor aspects of my positions on things that are happening and I'm scum for it?

Faugh. That's garbage.

2)

Of course Gamma's claim will have merit. If he claims a kill who's flavor was being stabbed, for example, Gamma's an SK. If he doesn't, we might get a counter-claim from the real vig (since everyone seems so sure he's lying.)

And for the last time, no, I will not help you conjecture over setup. You saying my counter-point is conjecture is 100% accurate! I was giving an example of why setup conjecture is STUPID!

I'm done talking to a moron now. Good luck trying to get me to discuss your scummy garbage.

eg.

My scum list is still nekka, corporate and

jordan

. All three of them (as many people have pointed out) have done scummy things.

You call me scum, and yet you have never posted a decent case against me. You've made one point against me, and the evidence you gave in that point was completely false. Also, with Nekka, earlier you voted him because of "guts". Guts is not a case.

Again, here, I have no idea to what you refer. CITATION PLEASE.

K, here goes, I presume this is what you want citation for:

Wall-E, your behaviour is ridiculous... calm down, stop being sarcy, stop insulting every other player and PLAY THE DAMN GAME! It would help your case a lot.

Should we choose to lynch Wall-E today, who does everyone think we should get Gamma to NK tonight? Personally I'm torn between corporate and jerseygoomba, I suspect jersey for mindlessly putting Wall-E at -1 at the top of this page, following Budja in voting for Gamma for exactly the same reasoning (so bandwagoning on an easy target who can be of a lot of use to the town) and generally not bringing anything new to the thread. He's attempting to stay under the radar by the looks of it, which looks pretty scummy.

Why, in the first part of this post, do you ask "Should we lynch Wall-E today?"

Did you know the votecount at the time?

I did not ask "Should we lynch Wall-E today?", I asked "Who should we NK if we lynch Wall-E today?"

I also notice you posted your top two. Why is the possibility of my lynch just as weighty in your mind as TWO other people you suspect are scum more than me, to the extent that the opinion of the general town consensus will convince you to forget BOTH of them and instead vote for me, a third choice?

I never said those were my top two and you were my third choice IN FACT I said in Post 271 I said if you weren't at -2 then, I'd have been voting you, hence indicating that you were my top suspect. Stop twisting my words scum-butt.

And now I can,

Vote: Wall-E

"Also, you always say other people's ideas and ponts are "inane" and "stupid", and that you're being patient to deal with them, but all you do is reply by attacking the player (and quite often not attacking the case at all, another scummy thing you've done) and using CAPS LOCK a lot.

NO, YES, AND FALSE (and SO?).

Alright, if that's the case, show me proof of it.

There's also this too

Have you got a response to this?

Second, name the unhelpful thing(s) I've done. Citation or you're tunneling.

As I've said, hardly ever responding to a post without either insulting the player who's raised a fair point, or bringing up a good case yourself. Despite all your posts, you've done very little that has actually contributed in a good way towards the game (i.e good arguments against things raised by other players), that is unhelpful to the town and just takes up post space.

How do you know what has helped the town? What if every person I voted for or pushed for a lynch of was scum?

Then again, it might not have, we don't know that yet. As you've said, this is a game of opinions, not facts. What I'm saying is that you're not actually making very good arguments as to why the players you say are scummy are scummy, and are just insulting people a lot and making insignificant comments instead. If you didn't insult people etc, you'd be fareing a lot better in this game.

Third, the items in 336:

Nekka's been scum in my book since the middle of this day. Do you think the replacement is going to say other than, "I have no idea why my predecessor did all that scummy stuff!"?

Get real.

Well we can still judge that replacement partly on the stuff Nekka did.

Nothing the replacement can say will affect my decision outside of claiming Cop, which Nekka would have done before leaving (I'd hope).

WHAT?? So you're not even going to give the replacement a chance at all? Just because Nekka decided to leave the game, even though it's fairly likely Nekka really did leave because of personal issues (he just got back from a hiatus, he may have come back too soon to be convenient). For goodness sake are you even trying to look town?

Just because he's a new player doesn't mean we'll give him a totally fresh start, I'm sure we all won't just forget Nekka existed.

There's a reason why lurking works, you know.

Lurking is kinda scummy, therefore, we shall take that into account when judging RF.

Your call for a quuicklynch on Nekka pretty much does it for you in my book. A quick call to lynch the only other person it looks likely we'd lynch today, and before we properly discuss who Gamma should kill. Imo, that swings it for me, I vote that you claim (since I cannot vote you without putting you at -1).

Oh, how easily you just decide on a lynch. You must be the greatest mafia player I've ever met, to catch someone so blantantly doing something scummy!

But!

Given that A) There is nothing the replacement can say that I will believe,

and B) THIS IS A GAME OF OPINIONS, NOT FACTS

I choose to push for Nekka's fastest possible lynch. I want Nekka lynched RIGHT NOW. I can taste Nekka's blood and I love the warm coppery flavor of it in my sharp, sharp teeth.

Firstly, I haven't definatly decided on your lynch, when I said "That swings it", I meant that I've decided you've been scummy enough for me to want you to claim. Although, I do see why that could be misinterpreted.

I've already said why A is just plain ridiculous and, again, totally unhelpful towards the town. I don't even know why you said B...

Suit yourself. I can't defend against these vague, unfounded and uncited accusations.

I'm guessing you don't have a response to what I've said about you being sure Nekka is scum because he had personal issues outside the game, so you cannot argue that it isn't scummy on your part. Also, I'll repeat what I said in the post below that, if you're so sure RF is scum, why aren't you voting for him?

Now can you respond to these properly and post a case against me in your next post, and

NO STALLING THIS TIME.

[JordanA24]

what do you think he has been doing wall e. youre being evasive. and stalling.

Thanks for the support, but can you post a case against Atlas please. I know you don't really feel like it, but even a short post, as long as it makes sense and is a good case will do.

[JordanA24]

anyone saying i'm scum should say why

Ugh, I have, now respond to it! And case against me please, otherwise you're hypocritical.

Oh, and why are you so sure RF's scum anyway? I mean, like, REALLY sure.

I really want to know why you're not voting for her if you're not sure (as I said before)

I'm sick of this PM quoting too. It seems against the spirit of the game.

QFT.

Vote Count:
Atlas - (0)
Budja - (2) Wall-E, JordanA24
corporate - (0)
Gamma - (0)
jerseygoomba - (4) Atlas, Gamma, RestFermata, zachattack
JordanA24 - (0)
My Milked Eek - (0)
RestFermata - (1) Tolmides
Tolmides - (0)
Wall-E - (4) My Milked Eek, corporate, jerseygoomba, Budja
WhereIsTony - (0)
zachattack - (0)

With 12 alive, 7 votes will end the day.

[JordanA24]

Last chance Wall-E, or I'm putting my vote on you and not moving it for the rest of the day. Response to my case and case agsinst me next post please.

[JordanA24]

Last chance Wall-E, or I'm putting my vote on you and not moving it for the rest of the day. Response to my case and case agsinst me next post please.

Well, now he's at -2, I won't, but if he goes down to -3 again, I'll put my vote on him.

Are we still deciding Gamma's NK for him, or give him options and the like or leave him completely to his own devices?

[JordanA24]

Unvote Vote: Wall-E

That ain't moving till the end of the day. Either you're scum and therefore bad for the town anyway or extremely irritating and unhelpful, and therefore bad for the town anyway. Unless anything majorly drastic happens (eg. really obv scum reveal).

[JordanA24]

i support a no kill from gamma because its day 1 and i dont think we have enough information to make 2 kills today and i would hate to have him kill a townie on accident.

One problem I have with this is that we force him to no-kill is that, how can we be sure he no-kills anyway? If he is an SK, and two kills are made, he can simply claim he is still a Vig, and that there is another player who is an SK that made that second kill. And also, if force him to kill someone, we may be able to find out if he is an SK or Vig via his kill method (Shot=most likely Vig, Stabbed or something like that=Most likely SK). I realise this is Playing the Mod, and he might not even post kill methods at all, but it's still something to bear in mind.

I say let him choose,

If he kills we may be able to see the nature of his role.

I am always a big advocate of a vig kill on night one because it is the

equivlant of a lynch with 100% scum free voting

.

how does this make any sense at all? the scum get to vote too.

This post makes no sense at all, Tony's post quite clearly states that he's talking about a Vig Kill.


Tony makes very little sense at the top of the page regarding his vote. If you want to announce displeasure, an FOS is an equally valid method of doing that.

RF you are not my #1 anymore. I essentially haven't picked my badger yet.

You've crossed the line into complete ridiculousnes. As corporate said, convenient time to change your mind, why did you change your mind so suddenly? You went from "NEKKA IS SCUM!!!" to "I'm completely unsure who to lynch" in, what, 2 pages?

It's pathetic that nobody can come up with a reason why I'm being wagoned.

EPIC HEADDESK

[JordanA24]

Hmm, not that I don't agree with deadlines per se, I think in most situations, it'd be a good idea. But, I'm not sure it's a good idea to have a deadline in the Christmas Holidays, where many people may not be available.