Mini 709 - Musical Mafia - (Game Over!)

[Budja]

Vote Atlas

for reading too much into a random vote .

[Budja]

@zachattack My vote was random, I didn't actually read all the thread so I actually thought Atlas only had 1 vote on him already.

But its not really a big deal, lynches (should) never happen until after some proper discussion anyway.

[Budja]

I did skim the thread, I just didn't notice corporate's vote at the top.

I believe corporate's vote on me was, as he said, still in the silly random vote stage. He also unvoted Atlas to do this taking him back to a safer vote level. For this I cannot suspect him. In fact, his actions seem quite townish to me so far.

I will

unvote Atlas

now that we seem to be having some proper discussion.

FoS Gamma

for obvious reasons. After the mini-debate after I voted Atlas, its a bit hard to not noticed that you were putting on a fourth vote.

I don't feel too much suspicion towards jerseygoomba, but your initial comment about Wall-E bandwagoning does seem illogical.

[Budja]

I have a little challenge for the people suspicious of me- name one thing I've done scummy aside from random voting Atlas.

Well your uncaring attitude about putting someone a 4th vote on maybe .

while i'm at it,

unvote, vote Gamma

. Does this make me scummy, too?

Don't be silly. Voting for yourself generally proves nothing and is just stupid.

To cap off my defense, I am the vig and I have no qualms about NKing players if they're gonna be a hassle, town or not. Fuck yeah.

Why would you reveal this now ? Even if you are the vig, this whole paragraph seems anti-town to me. Unless you change your attitude, we may as well lynch you because if if you are going to act like this, you are a liability not a help .

[Budja]

Ok, ok slow down.

We have plently of FoS's going around so why don't we have some proper discussion now.

@Gamma, please work with the town not against us. Claiming was stupid but at least listen to us and make a valid target for NK's otherwise we may as well lynch you.

Also I think Wall-E was been sarcastic above .

[Budja]

As long as Gamma picks his targets sensibly, don't kill him.
Besides the mafia will probably NK him anyway so I say we forget about him for now.

Wall-E seems a little too over-supportive of Gamma. But he is right is saying the Gamma is very probably the vig. Only the stupidest mafia would attempt to claim vig when their is a decent chance of a counter-claim.

Nekka seems too eager to remove Gamma and is using fairly illogical statement to support this. But I am not eager to start a bandwagon on him so quickly.

[Budja]

Gamma being the serial killer makes a lot of sense.
That could explain his whole kill-whoever-I-want attitude and his early claim.



I want to vote Gamma but I am not sure if it is worth the risk.
Bah

vote Gamma

for now...

[Budja]

Don't overdo it Jersey . Tolmides's action wasn't particually scummy.

@Tolmides, you may be right,

unvote

.
If Gamma fails to lynch the townies choice, I will definantly lynch him tomorrow.
I do strongly suspect Gamma is a SK, but if he can be used by us for now, so be it.
If Gamma is a vig, he can hardly complain.

An interesting question:
Would the mafia support or want killed a SK/rogue vig at this stage?

[Budja]

I see corporate's action as a little scummy, but not sufficient to deserve my vote.

[Budja]

OK, my 2 cents.

Wall-E and corporate are clearly the most suspicious (aside from gamma).
I know I am repeating the general opinion of the town here but these are my views and I will explain them

First, Wall-E's blatent refusal to listen to anyone elses ideas and disregarding MME's serial killer theory without real reason makes him scummy in my book. All of his replys are basically attacks or invalid defence. Why can't the mafia have a roleblocker? , why can't Gamma be a SK?, your posts fails to explain this and simply denounced it without any logic.

Fos Wall-E

But corporate seems to be following Nekka lead with the dodgy explanations, I could forgive the early vote for Atlas, but even your attacks on Wall-E (who is scummy ) are scummy, devoid of any valid/likely explanations. You are either scum or a very paranoid townie and I doubt the latter.

vote corporate

[Budja]

Short unsupported answers such as

You have zero case against me.

Provably wrong.

mean nothing without evidence.

That is what I was trying to say above , denial means nothing without actual evidence to back it up.

[Budja]

Most of your "reasons" generally involve constantly saying "no you are wrong, I am right" without saying why.

Milk said: - my request of replying to the sk theory

I said: You can't force me to join you in shitty conjecture.

Milk said: I didn't say join. I asked for your opinion on the case and suggestions. Surely, it can't be that hard to do?

I said: Ok: Here's my opinion: Your idea is dumb conjecture. I suggest you start scumhunting.

This kind of dismissing things without real reason (its dumb conjecture is not really a logical reason) makes no sense to me.

That is all.

[Budja]

unvote
vote Wall-E

You didn't even try to answer my questions.

voteGammaNK corporate

[Budja]

Eh, those posts are just as bad as the one I quoted.

Also, quit trying to debase my views with lines such as "rushing to vote" and "trying-to-look-scumhunty" both of which have

no

foundation.

All your posts seems to do is occasionally state an idea, refuse to listen to any alternatives and then attack the people who point this out.

@ at the claim or die post, I thought I may as well vote for my choice for Gamma's NK as we were discussing earlier. Not exceedingly scummy and I think/hope you got that at post 222 .

[Budja]

@Gamma, yes of course you have a say. The only reason that we are trying to control you is that you could be a SK.

@Wall-E. I didn't start attacking you, you were already been attacked by MME and others. Look at posts 190 for my initial suspicions and your post at 193 (and most after too) seem to follow this.

This attack on Nekka seems like a distraction but I am still interested in Nekka's response as he did seem scummy.

@zach, you make a good point. Lets hear Nekka before we lynch anyone.

[Budja]

Indeed,

unvote

. Yes, I still suspect Wall-E, but I don't want a lynch either before Nekka speaks.

[Budja]

. Wall-E, at least make an effort to not look scummy.

[Budja]

Vote Nekka

Until we actually get some answers.

I'm still watching you Wall-E .

[Budja]

True, Wall-E and corporate are my top 2 nightkill choices. I will go with the majority on one of those two.

[Budja]

Not between you and Wall-E.

[Budja]

Wall-E. I did vote for him .

I am only voting for Nekka to encourage him posting. I did not expect him to be pushed to L-2. I would like to target two of Nekka, corporate and Wall-E for the NK and lynch. The top target should be lynched as Gamma's kill is unreliable and could be blocked. My top target is Wall-E to I should probably should change back but I really want to see Nekka post so I will keep up the pressure.

Also I don't like WhereIsTony's change to Nekka. It looks like you are attempting to follow the bandwagon.

[Budja]

Alright, I'll follow my gut instinct.

unvote, vote Wall-E

I just didn't want the day to end before Nekka posted. WhereIsTony is about right in what I mean to do.

[Budja]

meant* not mean

[Budja]

Oh whoops , to be honest I didn't know. I guess I should have counted.

unvote

I most definitely do not want to rush which is why I unvoted Wall-E in the first place.

[Budja]

Whoa, thats a bit hasty isn't it.

vote: Wall-E

, (L-2, I did count)
I think I should have left my vote where it was originally. You are still number 1 on my list and that post just convinces me all the more.

[Budja]

Gamma, it is not good to argue without providing reasons/logical explanations.

And if you won't NK him, then Wall-E is the best choice for a lynch.

[Budja]

@Jordan, I think I did take centre stage in my argument with Wall-E a few pages back.

@Gamma, you do need reasons because your actions will effect the whole town.

@RF, look at Gamma's posting and tell me he is pro-town . Tolmides and others convinced me that Gamma could be used and so I stopped voting for him but he needs to be controlled. If Gamma is the SK, he will probably kill who we choose anyway so that proves nothing.

[Budja]

@zachattack, what are your suspicions of me. You have discussed corporate and jersey but you are now saying you would be happy to lynch me. Why?

[Budja]

@WhereIsTony, Wall-E has already answer that one, he said he didn't read it properly and thought I copy-pasted a scum PM or something. I believe this as I doubt someone would be lynched over suggesting a NK for Gamma.

Not that I believe Wall-E is innocent, just not scummy in that case.

[Budja]

Eh, You have explain you suspicions against jersey very well but haven't actually said why you see me as suspect #2. I am not trying to be over-defensive but I don't like been your NK target without explanation.

Sorry for not posting much recently, I have been distracted by another game. I'll get my act together now and start posting stuff.

I have seen nothing so far to change my opinion of you, Wall-E. Unless you actually start defending yourself properly, you are suspect #1.

On a reread, I have noticed that corporate never actually responded to the accusations thrown at him beyond

but in my defense, just cuz my playstyle isnt exactly orthodox and i may not be the sparkling child of pro-town radiance. that dosent mean im anti-town or scum.

i just dont get balls deep into the walls of text and every minor thing.

I would like to see an actual defence here, corporate. You seem to have been hiding in the shadows lately and posting very little. I see you don't like posting much but I think we really need to see more.

More later.

[Budja]

@zach, I didn't bother defending myself at the time as your appear to be suspecting me out of "gut-feeling" more than anything else.
I do not want to be lynched/NKed over only gutfeeling, nor should anybody else. I hope my response to RF answer some of your suspicions.

@RF,

1. I voted for Nekka to put pressure on him to actually answer some of the question that were being thrown at him. I wasn't highly suspicious of Nekka and had little to add to the case thrown at him but I really wanted to see a response.
Wall-E was still my #1 suspect but day 1 is not about getting an immediate lynch, it is about gathering a store of information.


2. The problem with viewing posts in isolation is that you lose the context of the situation. You say you read the context and still don't understand so I will post a explanation of what happen here in from my point of view.

I voted for Wall-E again after Wall-E began to go at me for voting for Nekka when he was my main suspect. I will admit that I made that post when I was in a rush and Wall-E was being characteristically annoying so I just put my vote back on him. (post 21)
In hindsight, I should have checked the votecount, but I didn't.

Jordan quickly pointed out that I had put Wall-E on L-1. As I did not want the day to end so soon. I quickly unvoted. (post 23)

Later, Wall-E suggested we bandwagon Nekka before a replacement arrives. This seemed so over the top and scummy, I put my vote back on him. I would have put him on L-1 for that post as it virtually confirmed (in my mind) that Wall-E was scum.


3. About the "Gamma lynch" I became involved in, I strongly believe Gamma to be an SK and I thought it would be best to remove him. In the end Tolmides and others convinced me that Gamma could be used.
We agreed that Gamma must be tightly controlled and must kill the town choice/s.


I don't think I can respond to the accusations of wishy-washyness, franticness, etc. I know I am a bit of a newbie and I find it hard to see these in my own posts. POint out anything you want me to explain.

[Budja]

Erk, we seem to be riding the line on how much we state from our PM's. I will say is that Gamma mentioning the word "woodwinds" means nothing to me and I fail to understand how it is implied at all unless Gamma guessed.

This is the point that really cements it in my mind that Gamma is not town.

[Budja]

DO NOT LET GAMMA CHOOSE HIMSELF!

We choose a kill (yes, no kill is an option) and if he refuses or kills someone else , then we lynch him.

[Budja]

So, why did you vote corporate then if Wall-E is your top suspect?

[Budja]

Sorry, I'll post in a couple of hours. Just noticing that my views haven't changed since I last posted and Wall-E is still #1. We really need to hear from the replacements too.

[Budja]

mod: On the 27th of Dec, I will be taking a 3-week holiday and will need replacing.
I will be able to play until then, or until you can replace me.

[Budja]

Good job town.

I find it amusing that my two biggest suspects were instrumental to the victory.

You did a great job modding RBT. I liked the spoiler highlight over the roles/alignments for added suspense .