Mini 702--Serum & Steel(The rust has settled/Game Over)

[Vi]

I don't remember actually saying "yes I'll do it", but whatever Confirming in.

It looks like you've got a deadline set for this Sunday. Tight, but I'll see what I can do... If I can get another post in, it may be in a few.

[Vi]

All right, first things first: TIMEATER YOU *creative name* WHY DID YOU CLAIM AND SUBSEQUENTLY FAIL TO AVOID MYCOSYNTHAGE JHHHHHHHHHH

...but I'm not at all bitter

<- This is a lie.

Anyway, the wording of my Role PM has been passed around a lot recently, and I'm not going to recant any of it. I'm like a Lynchable Unlynchable Vanilla Townie, or more to the point Vanilla Townie with no clue as to any serum benefit. Based on the wording of my Role PM and general flavor logic, I agree with whoever it was who said I am/was probably the only Metal Townie. gg.

---

~About an hour later~

---

Quite frankly, this game was --painful-- to read. First thing: PLAY EFFING MAFIA. Or heck, you can even play just plain old Mafia if you don't like effing. But for the love of God,

this game is about finding scum, not politics of serum/mycosynth!

I'm all for not caring who gets the serum and mycoing whoever annoys me, and lynching scum. (Note to mod: In future games, put that sort of power into individuals' hands, not the collective for something to distract from a lynch.)

I want to do a thorough post here, but - this isn't my computer, I'm supposed to be enjoying time with my parents and eating GOOD food for a welcome change, I'm leaving to visit

sadistic

relatives tomorrow, I've got like nine other games to do justice to, and I keep getting Gray Screened; and all of that would be irrelevant if I didn't skip through the last nine or so pages to keep myself from screaming (which would bother said parents somewhat). If I work up the courage to read this thread again sometime tonight, I may give a more informed opinion on the reasonably uncontained chaos going on here, but as of right now, I believe the proper solution is to dayvig everyone. Alas, my role does not provide for it.

Unvote (Lynch): Whoever
Unvote (Mycosynth): Whoever
Unvote (Blinkmoth): Whoever

Until then, this is as far as I got before I decided I didn't have enough Tylenol to finish up (somewhere around Page 16)--

I am immediately suspicious of everyone whose energy was most concentrated in the serum/synth deal. ...Oh wait, that's

everyone

. Fine, the people who have almost entirely contributed about that. That leaves:
-Gremwell
-TonyMontana
1/2 - Porkens and ortolan

Official thought on the SpyreX lynch: What the hell? I have no (sane) idea why or how that happened, but it reeks and needs much more careful attention when I have time.

CF Riot (Iron Man) - Up until the whole fight scene at the end of D1, I didn't have much either way. Since you've made yourself one of the focal points of the game, I need to look much more carefully at what you've done.
On a tangent, I would disagree with your point in 266 that flaking is a personal preference. It is to an extent, but it also has to do with the other players. I like being in reasonably active games with non-n00btastic players, and dislike games where everyone replaces out or is inactive/mentally impaired.

Illumina - Not much to say. Seems to be the most reasonable/Townish player here.

ortolan - The only person still around in the group from the first three or four pages (it went very quickly). I dislike how you tried to "game" the system by calling for very early claims. You talk much, much more about the setup than the suspects. That's really bad. Tosses WIFOM about around the 250s. You do say you believe Timeater is Town and call out the Myco wagon for fools - but why was Timeater Town? Maybe I didn't catch it in my fast-forward reading, but that (accurate) assessment was the only thing that I can recall striking me about your play that was positive. If I were there D1, I would have been pleading for people to vote you. As it is, I'm going to wait until I look into the big catfight D1 again.

Gremwell - Talks about the setup more than the suspects. Largely invisible. Not a bad choice if you want to pick out scum.

MafiaSSK/Tuberkulos - Congratulations, you can verify that my role is what everyone has said it was. It probably wasn't a bad choice at the time IYO, but it's not as helpful as advertised.
Role Cop is not necessarily scum-aligned (though it tends to be). Falsifiable results are lame though.

Porkens - Early on, you talk almost exclusively about the serum/synth metagame, which bites hard. You later change that to begin talking about the players, which improves your standing with me a little (much more analysis necessary).

geraintm - striagth up this is hard to raed?
i think your okay but ive taken away little info form or aobut you

TonyMontana - You showed up in Post 174 just to burn Timeater. Isn't that sweet? Isn't that informationless, too.
You've done the most active lurking in the game. Why is nobody calling you on this.

Seraphim -

IS CONNIVING SCUM AND MUST DIE IMMEDIATELY

Meh. I'm trying to remember, but I'm not entirely sure why you were being wagoned in the first place aside from initial uselessness (which you would hardly be alone in). More careful study necessary, although I don't recall there being much to study.

Vi (Timeater) - Why do I always wind up replacing the obvscum Townies? *insert more whining between these two asterisks*

As mentioned before, all of this is based on an initial and half-done read, and subject to change. If you want to correct or add onto anything I've said here, please do so. Yieeeee.

-----

a;sdlfjfdgaklfdkjjkadflja;jsd;fjasdf;asdkfjkasdlfkj;la (etc.)

[Vi]

You are correct in that a second mislynch today *usually* means LyLo tomorrow. Which is why we need to start playing hardball today.

As far as discussing the setup being a scumtell, well, look what happened to me :v (assuming I'm Town, anyway)

I disagree with my own lynch (obv) and from the little I've seen, I don't see SSK as particularly anti-Town (uh-oh). Seraphim, I still have to read into. But generally on that stance, I agree with you for the moment.

Well ortolan, in spite of non-recent events, Town's still playing to win. The first thing I'd suggest is taking a look at people who have just gotten by under the radar through the game. TonyMontana is the big one IMO, although I can see he's been a little more active recently.

Will catch up when I can, again. If it's not tonight, it'll be Friday.

[Vi]

Oh, you are so kidding me. My post was here, but now it's gone. Here's what I remember, or the short version of what I remember at least.

TonyMontana: Your idea of activity bites. You've been obv-active lurking throughout.

Gremwell: You're not far behind.

Illumina: You manage to be just better than the above for contributing a little at a time.

ortolan: I'm on the fence at this point. You were kicked around like a sports ball yesterday for reasons I don't disagree with IIRC, but I'm not sure if you're actually scum.

Porkens: Talking mostly about the setup during the first half of D1 bites. You said something in 444 (thereabouts) that needed clarification; don't remember what. It looks like ~449 you claimed serum-fueled Cop; is this accurate?

CF Riot: You said you didn't want to be mycosynthed, but you also said you didn't want to divulge what your serum did. I can understand one at a time, but not both. Well, let me ask this - why the secrecy?

Seraphim: When you post, it's to tell people you're not posting. Seriously, I'm disappointed more heat has not been heaped on you. The only thing saving you IMO is your candyman claim, which seems to have been verified and is pretty terribly overpowered for scum.

SSK: I'm all for giving you the serum again tonight PENDING a full reveal of zetta everything you know. Your Role Cop ability doesn't seem too useful with what you've shown us.

geraintm: Bluntly, I'm allergic to your style of typing. It doesn't look like I missed much.

Vote (Lynch): TonyMontana
Vote (Mycosynth): Gremwell

Will answer questions if you like.

[Vi]

What I quoted was all I got. Isn't confirming a role good enough to get the serum again?

Hardly

.
I can quote the first five words of my own Role PM easily enough without fearing my alignment or abilities becoming public. Having someone else say just that much is practically useless IMO.

Or did I miss some extra disclosure over "Triskellion, steel fleet"?

[Vi]

Can catch scum in a lie.

I can quote the first five words of my own Role PM easily enough without fearing my alignment or abilities becoming public.

Now if we massclaim,

we can all have Pie_ that is_Good

that might be more worthwhile as a safeclaim-breaker, but other than that I don't see your ability as a big deal.

[Vi]

Anyone else willing to replace into Kirby Mafia?

It is a great game about one of the greatest video game series of all time. C'mon. Its worth a shot. And its an easy read. /shamelessplug

I'll do it

Actual post to come soon-ish. However, ortolan is correct that I have the same Role PM as Timeater, and if you thought he was scum, I don't expect you to hold back on me.

[Vi]

I've done no such thing, I'm not sure where you got this from.

Post 497, 'should be at the end of this link. Yes, I know that you're making fun of ortolan here, but even so, checking up.

Porkens, when did you decide to take your anti-merit stance on the serum D1?

In 444, you say that the best-case scenario is an intentional mislynch. This combined with how you only deal weakly with the actual players for your first 25 posts reflects poorly on you. You kick ortolan around like a beach ball, but outrightly tell him that SpyreX will flip Town (553).

----

@SSK. Fullclaim. You've already claimed serum-fueled Role Cop. You don't have anything else to hide... do you? I would be rather disappointed if you expected us to take you at your word after your disappointing reveal and then give you more serum...

On the other hand, the serum-vig idea wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the fact that it would happen N3, at which time if there are three scum around and SSK isn't one of them we'd just be farther in the hole than before.

I don't understand how "clearing" SSK by giving him the serum will do *anything*. Even if he is scum, he has nothing to gain in lying.

Incidentally, I'm on the verge of asking for a massclaim, scum-aid or not. This whole dancing-around-our-implied-abilities business is getting on my last nerve.

@mod: Will you tell us if/when we reach LyLo?

----

I have an evil idea.

Vote (Blinkmoth): CF Riot

Reading through today, I'm coming to some of the same conclusions as ortolan. You say you don't

want

to be tossed into the mycosynth, whereas most others have said they don't care. You say that you got the serum yesterday without claiming its effects beforehand as a justification for not claiming now, and I disagree. The person to ask about that is Seraphim. Why did he give you the serum? If it was essentially arbitrary, then it really doesn't matter, does it? We, the collective, didn't *choose* you without knowing what your role was.

----

TonyMontana. Show up, make a decent post, or die. Those are your options.

[Vi]

I've been completely anti-serum since the morning of Day 1. If some people want to Serum, in the early parts of the game (which we are almost done with), it should be Random. In the later stages of the game, it must be merit based on who's actually cleared.

Is that so?~
How can you reconcile this and Porkens 36?

1. It was.
2. Don't care.
3. I was certain he would.

Intentional mislynches are good for Town? Whatever happened to, y'know, lynching scum?
As far as being certain that SpyreX would flip Town, why not try applying some of that certainty to finding people you know will flip scum?~

one question is will a serum vig work on a metal player? I would think so but there is the whole "metal players cannot be killed" thing.

No.

The love affair between Porkens and CF Riot is nice and everything, but I think I've had enough of it.

Unvote (Mycosynth): Gremwell
Vote (Mycosynth): Porkens

---

If there's no majority in anything at deadline, Town may as well concede defeat and get it over with.

[Vi]

I do mean 36.

Wall-E 35: "I have something to gain by getting the serum. I'll claim if I have to."
Porkens 36: "claim
now"

That's both a contradiction to your anti-serum stance and a rolefish. Congrats.

At BEST, you are simply misunderstanding what I said.

I try to be reasonable every now and then. Clarify for me.

I'm pretty certain you are scum. MSSK too.

Succinctly tell me why you hate SSK. I can guess why you hate me (rest assured the more I reread the more it's becoming mutual).

(And by "hate" I mean "think the following person is scum"; nothing personal, just my shorthand.)

-----

I suggest the town reread my rules concerning extentions again...

I think we have to have half the Town HERE on a regular basis first...

But I'll bite.

Vote (Deadline Extension): Yes

[Vi]

ALL of us have "something" to gain by the Serum.

Yeah, except... no, actually.
As far as rolefishing goes, that move still stands at odds with everything you have said and done beyond then. Besides, why would you care if you didn't want anyone to get the serum in the first place?

I'm assuming sarcasm on the "your posting has been grand" bit. However, what I see from your summaries is that you're gaming the setup, rather than what judging what people are saying (that is, scumhunting). That's been your defining characteristic all game, it seems; so--

Unvote (Lynch): TonyMontana
Vote (Lynch): Porkens
Unvote (Mycosynth): Porkens
Vote (Mycosynth): TonyMontana

May change pending whether SSK follows basic instructions.

[Vi]

Gaming the setup? Fine, so be it. With a town this scummy, it has come to that, yes.

Aww, but it's not like you tried to give the Town a chance first~

I'll give SSK a single more chance. (It's not like this is somehow different from SSK's norm; if anything it's actually slightly better <___< )

So, as I said in another post; either MSSK or TE/VY is almost certainly scum.
I'm happy to hang either of them to find out which is true.

And if your choice flips Town?

Also, take a careful look at my username.

[Vi]

Aww, but it's not like you tried to give the Town a chance first~

They didn't deserve one.

Even at the beginning of the game?
I think you're trying to cover for yourself.

He being MafiaSSK? I don't think he will. But I'd look into the people defending him.

How convenient, you can fit me into that broad category. (Never mind that attempting to dissuade faulty wagons is pro-Town.)
Also, did you just say that he will likely flip scum

because he's SSK?

That's like saying I'll flip Town because I'm

VY

Vi.

[Vi]

1) I'm just really, really mad at TE for distructing the game with his boned-up play.
2) This set-up is convoluted, and 99% of the discussion has been centered on it's mechanics.
3) In your fantasy land, where people don't talk about the dynamics of the game, what would you like to see discussed?
4) Realize, too, that looking at how people have discussed the mechanics of the game is just as valid as looking at who they want to lynch and why.

1) This was done AFTER your call for Wall-E's claim. Besides, he's hardly the only person who "distructed" the game.
2) For better or (mostly) worse. The thing is, talking solely about the mechanics doesn't find scum.
3) Straw man. Talking about the setup is quite warranted, but not

exclusively

. I would sooner talk to the players about what they want to do and why, and get at their motives.
4) And you've done

such

a good job of it~ [/obvsarcasm]

2. I don't get it.

Just checking - What is your concept of "Pro-Town behavior"?

3. "He, being MafiaSSKK?" In your question, you asked what would I think if he flipped town. I had been talking about 2 people at the time. This sentence is clarifying which person you/I meant by

he

And immediately afterward you answered as if I were referring to MafiaSSK.

----

But my point is you should ask me to claim just because I probably won't get the serum again.

*blink* Reword what you're saying? This seems to go against what you've said so far.
(Of course, if you want to claim, you have my permission.)

1) Vi, do you think SSK is more likely town or scum, and why?
2) Would you support serum-vigging him?
3) Why do you want to serum me?
4) What do you think of Tony Montana?
5) You never said why you think Illumina is townish. Can you explain?

1) Not enough information. But I don't see a reason for him to hang unless he keeps waffling about the Role PM.
2) No. Serum-vigging him assumes that we actually get something

useful

out of his results if he's Town. As of now he has failed to demonstrate this.
3) To serum-vig

you

.
4) To quote SpyreX's sig, "I always lynch scum... sometimes they're just not Mafia." TonyMontana is begging for a noose, and I would not be surprised if he flips scum, but I think I've a better target for today.
5) Sure. While Illumina has not posted often, I think what has been posted is reasonably pro-Town; including an open mind on Timeater's metal claim and the pros and cons of mycosynthing him (ultimately coming down on the "right" side, given that I know my alignment). I'm not extremely confident in this determination, though. I would like for Illumina to provide a player-by-player assessment soon.

[Vi]

1. He's the one I got pissed at, though. Who else ""distructed"" it?
2. It can.
3. uh huh, that's why I said fantasy land. So talking about "what they want to do" you differentiate from what I've been doing.
4. These insults aren't constructive.

1) Everyone that contributed to the D1 fiasco.
2) You don't have anything to show for it.
3) You talk about the setup. I talk about people. That's why I have more opinions than what's utterly obvious and based on what's happened in the last two pages.
4) Yes they are; they're another way of looking at why I'm voting you.

I...you...you want the list or something? Could you just re-state the origional question?

No.
Come on, it's so obvious you don't have

any interest

in who's doing what.

Right, I made it clear about whome I was talking, and then I talked. Was that wrong in some way?

You know very well that I'm referring to what you said after acknowledging that you were talking about SSK as the issue.
After thirty-plus pages of reading this game and noting your posts, I refuse to believe you're this dense.

Furthermore, you've chosen to be AGAINST a deadline extension when there's no majority in any direction and the 'line is in two days. If you really are this dense, and/or if you are Town-aligned in the end, I'm going to be... upset at the endgame.

--------

Do you understand or agree with me in the fixed version?

I disagree.
Without giving you the serum, you'll remain a Vanilla Townie with some extra information you're keeping from the Town, and you'll probably STAY a Vanilla Townie. Has it occurred to you that other people may get better results from the serum? It's awful hard to judge whether you should get it when we have no way of quantifying it outside your vague references.

1) Is okay, but I think the waffling that's happened already is enough.
2) and 3) seem to contradict each other. It's been said that if I'm town my results weren't useful either, so why is it okay to vig me but not SSK? What info would you get if I flipped town? I think SSK's power has the potential to be helpful, if he gets lucky on his target. It just depends on how transparent their role is.
4) Eh. I think Pork is town. I don't have great reason to though so I can't really argue this one. All I can say is compromise with me since we're about to be deadlined and you think TM is possible scum anyways.
5) is meh. I don't really have a read either way I just wanted you to back up your claims.

1) I'm too kind.
2 and 3) Because of the great lengths you're going to to keep yourself from saying what your role is, combined with your insistence that it's nothing special. Something doesn't match, but since if it's any good it's likely to be better than what SSK has to offer, I'll bite.
4) Reconsider that Porkens opinion for me. Meanwhile, I'll consider it but I'm still quite wary, especially since my #1 for scum endorses his lynch.
5) Who DO you have a read on?

[Vi]

Does that slot have a post restriction of "must post like an over-generalizing and beligerent jack-ass?" JUST CHECKING.

Yes, it--*checks again* ...well, it

should

.
Belligerent, perhaps. Jack-ass, well, only on my better days (you're one to talk, btw). Over-generalizing? Now

that

I take offense to. Give me some examples.

Also, act pro-Town for a change. Tell me who you have any opinions on. I've heard that SpyreX was Town for undefined reasons (830), SSK is scum because he hasn't fullclaimed, and I'm scum because of a claim way way back on Page 3. Beyond that, you generally don't talk about people. IIoA, very much so.

You can also tell me why you're against a deadline extension when the Town needs it so badly.

[Vi]

You're portraying what I've posted as 100% mechanics-based when they are not. You've said I'm "SO uninterested in what people say/do/act/pro-town"

...

This is a good example. The three things you say; yeah those are some of the example you're looking for. If you want others, I suggest you re-read my posts in this thread, I'm not going to hunt them down for you.

All right, I'm bored and mostly caught up. I'll play.

0 - confirmation
1 - infoless
2 - infoless
3 - Calling for Wall-E to claim.
4 - No serum for anyone. No smilies for anyone.
5 - No serum for anyone, even randomly. Denies playing mind trick for serum.
6 - Trying to understand what SpyreX said about his metaplay.
7 - No serum no cry
8 - No serum for anyone. Accuses Wall-E of spinning a conspiracy theory.
9 - No ser--wait, maybe randomly.
10 - Abide by random serum or die. Myco Timeater because of hated metal claim.
11 - Defends serum policy and Timeater myco.
12 - WIFOMing for ortolan's sake
13 - Lynch Seraphim (no given reason), myco Timeater (for wanting to "waste" myco on Wall-E)
14 - Metaplay planning.
15 - Metaguessing.
16 - Metafearmongering.
17 - Metaplay advisory.
18 - infoless
19 - Attempts to calm Timeater/SpyreX, questions Illumina, metaplay advisory
20 - Pushes SpyreX into the random serum idea. Goads Timeater to jump on SpyreX.
21 - infoless
22 - Calls Timeater on setup WIFOM.
23 - Calls for lynch on ortolan, Seraphim, or (half-heartedly) CF Riot (no reasons given). Expects to mislynch and lynch demetaled scum (read: Timeater) the next day.
24 - REPEAT: I LIKE THE IDEA OF AN ORTOLAN LYNCH (no reasons given)
25 - Turns against ortolan for wanting to myco Timeater-town. Fearmongering, etc.
26 - More hating against ortolan (to be fair, ortolan is doing a good job of being wrong here)
27 - Explains why he's against SpyreX's plan.
28 - Asks ortolan how his "no myco unless a preferred target gets the lynch" plan is supposed to work (good question)
29 - Goes all-out against ortolan. Calls SpyreX 100% town. Bashes Town; bets Timeater won't get lynched D2 (it's true!). Snippily tells ortolan to stop being snippy.
30 - Votes, now with color
31 - Tells ortolan to talk to the hand.
32 - Blanket agreement with CF Riot.
33 - Calls CF Riot for owning this game, saying he doesn't care if Town loses at this point if he's scum.
34 - Backs Timeater myco. Mocks ortolan.
35 - infoless
36 - infoless
37 - infoless
38 - Questions Wall-E's "tell" that Timeater is scum.
39 - Calls Timeater on placing way too much faith in SpyreX-scum.
40 - Restatement of previous beliefs.
41 - Fingers Illumina for not talking about his pet case. Asks what Illumina will think

when

SpyreX flips Town.
42 - Obvious metaplay strategy
43 - Calls Illumina synth vote worthless; asks Illumina a metaplay question; expresses distrust of Timeater and wants his myco, would prefer an ortolan lynch over a SpyreX lynch, calls out scumteam. Acknowledges that there are other players in the game than SpyreX, CF Riot, Timeater, Wall-E, ortolan, and Illumina.
44 - Presses on Timeater; denies flavor as savior.
45 - Calls Wall-E out for fence-sitting.
46 - Again. Ironic considering it's not dissimilar to Porkens' first 25 posts.
47 - Again, basically.
48 - infoless
49 - infoless (generic taunting)
50 - Votes to synth... Wall-E? What gives?
51 - Taunts SpyreX about not synthing Timeater
52 - and tells SpyreX to synth Wall-E too
53 - infoless
54 - infoless
55 - infoless
56 - 180s on ortolan after hearing his role title. Tells SSK to claim. Some general responses. Tells Timeater to replace out but votes him as well. Is against a massclaim.
57 - Talks about flavor. In light of already saying it won't help, and immediately after expressing an opinion against a massclaim. Votes to myco geraintm, saying a case would be forthcoming (it never comes). Calls exclusively one of SSK and Timeater scum, and chooses Timeater first.
58 - Changes mind and synths SSK.
59 - Setup WIFOM for SSK being scum as a Role Cop. Threatens lurkers with pursuit if Timeater flips Town (so this means SSK isn't scum in that case?)
60 - Queries SSK.
61 - Questions SSK's ability to be a Role Cop (it's not a bad line of thought).
62 - Metaplay discussion.
63 - Unvotes Timeater based on SSK's results, and pursues SSK.
64 - Votes SSK for flavor reasons and asks for a claim.
65 - Asks SSK why no fullclaim.
66 - Tries to get SSK to talk about the game (not dissimilar to what I'm trying to get Porkens to do <_< ).
67 - Endorses SSK lynch.
68 - infoless
69 - infoless
70 - Suggests Seraphim may want to serum himself.
71 - Denies that SSK could be anything but a claimed Role Cop.
72 - Asks ortolan if he thinks SSK falsclaimed.
73 - Asks CF Riot if SSK is a good lynch.
74 - Asks Vi where he claimed Cop (misunderstanding).
75 - Asks CF Riot about metatactics
76 - Accuses Vi of rolefishing, claims to have been anti-Serum the whole time, dismisses Vi's suspicion. Continues previous activities @CF Riot and SSK.
77 - Questions Gremwell's intentions re: CF Riot.
78 - Accuses Vi of mass misinterpretation. Calls Vi and SSK both scum.
79 - Defense against Vi. Calls Vi's posting "grand" (in light of the previous post?!), but insists Timeater has poisoned Vi's player slot. Insists SSK is most likely scum. Denies a deadline extension.
80 - Defends metaplay. Insists Vi's posting is okay, and that SSK has had enough chances.
81 - Continues to push SSK, with VY (whoever that is) close behind.
82 and so forth - General b1tching at Vi, who is returning the favor liberally.

------

Conclusions (yes, there are some after all that) -

Early play clearly shows that you like lynches but hate reasons. Very confident in calling people Town, seemingly without justification. You claim that your opinions on people have already been put out, but... no, they haven't. Gremwell? TonyMontana (whose lynch you wouldn't mind, you said)? geraintm (who at one time you wanted to synth, but never got around to saying why)? You seem to hold a double standard re: flavor and massclaims, going so far as to excuse arch-rival ortolan entirely for it. No idea why you wanted to myco Wall-E instead of Timeater in light of the metal claim AND repeated insistence that Timeater is probably scum. And yes, your play is striking in that when you're not talking about the setup and how to work it, you tend to have a narrow field of vision. All of these seem to play out nicely for scum. Thus my vote.
If you are scum, CF Riot is very likely a partner. Dunno how SpyreX ever made it a threesome.

---------

Sure; This game has had plenty of time on this day. I don't think it's time to use our

one-shot

extra extension.

And what difference does it make insofar as when it's used, provided it's necessary?

---------

Thoughts after reading over what's transpired since 862, in brief.

TonyMontana: While he wouldn't like to say so, his meta is... well, poor. This is his playstyle we're seeing. With that in mind, I'm less inclined to push into him - so far.

CF Riot: I still like the idea of serum-vigging you, but don't think it's the best play any more. All of this dodging around a claim is ludicrous. Saying that SSK is deliberately putting off his fullclaim ignores the obvious question of

why he couldn't just say that's what he's doing

.

ortolan: I'm willing to believe you're Town. Very poorly guided Town from D1, but nonetheless.

SSK: During that reread, I realized that yes, SSK has been given a ton of chances. I endorse his lynch at this point. And yes, I see that SSK is Porkens's target... but if SSK flips scum, that would change my opinion on him a bit.

Seraphim: I hope you're not scum; you're being mostly ignored handily and only your claim justifies it.

Thus.

Unvote (Lynch): Porkens
Vote (Lynch): MafiaSSK
Unvote (Blinkmoth): CF Riot
Vote (Blinkmoth): ortolan
Unvote (Mycosynth): TonyMontana... I think
Vote (Mycosynth): CF Riot

[Vi]

He also seems to have 180ed on you since you replaced Timeater.

I thought this briefly during the reread, but no, not really. SSK is/was being used as a stepping-stone toward whether he should go forward with Timeater, I think.

----

I also got mad at Ort at one point, but his claim has to be true based on the flavor we have seen so far.

And this says something about his (or your) allegiance? If so, why not go with Massclaim_is_Good?

At any rate, I’m glad you’ve seen your way to voting/synthing/mycoing all the right people, despite your no-doubt overwhelming desire to lynch me.

Rest assured I still feel that my lynch vote is misplaced, considering there's not much disagreement between the active players about who should get what and I severely doubt all of us are Town - but I don't think I can do anything productive about it at this point.

[Vi]

ITT, Vi is spectacularly wrong. As usual.

The SSK flip was not at all expected on my part. Based on it, Porkens is now pushed way down on my Suspish-o-meter. I would also like to apologize for any unnecessary friction from yesterday (granted, that should have been forthcoming anyway).

And now for some other news. I was serumed last night by the now-defunct Blinkmoth Nexus, and to my surprise, it actually did something. Triskellion is now the multi-part artifact thingy that was advertised - my vote counts double for today.

-----

I still want to know what thoughts are about a massclaim. If Porkens has ortolan dubbed Town based on flavor AND hit SSK on flavor as well, I have to wonder what else is out there. Unfortunately, I don't think I can give you anything new on my end in that regard.

[Vi]

I wouldn't let Vi off the hook yet- not only did MafiaSSK "confirm" him (not that it would be necessarily wise for scum to do this to one another) but double-voting isn't necessarily a town ability.- by this logic I shouldn't be let off the hook either, obviously, although I would hope people would realise it's just been bad play on my part rather than being scum.

SSK didn't confirm anything; that was the whole point of why he started to take criticism.

This means Vi might have gotten an extra scumkill from the serum???

Quick question: Do you think that I would have gotten a kill *and* an amplified vote today from the serum?
I assure you that as soon as I vote, you will see that the latter is true.

I was actually leaning towards town on Grem based on how he suggested redoing the random vote D1, which we now know was in the hands of scum at the time. However he wasn't a bad choice.

I'm calling a Geraintm and Tony Montana scum team right now. Illumina got town points from me in post 404, for the same reason I thought Grem was town. Geraintm on the other hand takes the opposite stance in post 410. I'd like to hope my serum vote on Spyre (town) D1 when it was securely in SSK's hands gets me some town points of my own. Just sayin'.

This logic is entirely bogus, as it's made in hindsight.

Townies do not know who the Mafia are!

By this logic, we should be looking at you unfavorably because you recommended serum-vigging SSK, keeping him alive another night WITH the serum.

@Porkens: I'm not following what's going on with linking to the Glissa card. Furthermore, you have noticeably not claimed.

I'll be able to get back to this game later today and look further into it.

[Vi]

I certainly haven't heard of disguising a scum power role by making it MORE powerful.

Now a question for you: Why are you making assumptions about Gremwell's death? Rather than raise unnecessary amounts of setup WIFOM alongside CF Riot, we can massclaim and go from there if nobody "takes credit". As of right now, all you're doing is fishing... or flailing is more like it.

I'm interested in hearing why my seruming is so much more cause for alarm than CF Riot's, considering I've already told everyone what my new ability is and I at least hope that people can see how unlikely it is that I became a scum superweapon overnight.

[Vi]

I disagree. I think the logic behind Illumina and Gremwell looking town follows easily enough. The part linking Geraintm to scum is assuming a lot more and it's a lot less solid, because yes he could've had that opinion as town, but I think it's still valid.

Looking at it from a different perspective (Mafia know who the Mafia are) I see where you're coming from on Illumina and Gremwell. All right, I can live with that.

Vi, who do you think the next scum is?

I was going to say you at the time of my previous post. However, your claim lines up with everything we know very well, and the explained version of your logic seems decent enough. For now, I don't have any objections to hitting TonyMontana, particularly in light of that quote from near the beginning of the game that you linked to. I'm less sure of geraintm; I was pretty neutral on him coming into D3. I won't vote until I see them post their Role PMs though (or until they refuse, whichever).

Incidentally, I remember hearing something about Neuroks earlier in the thread, but I can't remember from who or where.

So I've got nothing to do with Gremwell's kill unless the mod lied and my ability was in fact a random vig

ModWIFOM should never be a part of games. I'd call the "unless" part doubtful.

[Vi]

We do need the rest of the pms in your next post people, it's worrying that the only people that have claimed so far are the most town-looking.

I concur; the ones that haven't claimed so far are the ones that post the least inthread.

--Illumina
--TonyMontana
--geraintm

[Vi]

Forgive me for not saying much recently, but between the three of you you've basically covered what's to say before I arrive at the topic each time something happens.
As it stands, we're five days to deadline, and the people we're waiting for are the ones who post the least. The time for acceptable stalling is up; all favors are off; start talking.

I would get some incentives going, but the downside to having a doublevote is that it puts everyone I vote for in quickhammer range (majority is 4). So, this is what I want to do.

Vote

x2

(Lynch): TonyMontana
Vote

x2

(Blinkmoth): Porkens
Vote

x2

(Mycosynth): Illumina

Neither bolded nor colored so it doesn't count. Porkens is quite simply the only person who hasn't received the serum and was willing to claim. If anyone thinks it would be worthwhile to serum someone else, I'm willing to listen; it'll give us something to talk about while we wait and wait <_<

@mod: Prod geraintm.

[Vi]

Anyone want to make some speculation about Gremwell being a "Death-Mask Duplicant, Town-Aligned Metal Body Double"? I hadn't thought about it until now but the whole body double thing might be linked to why he's dead. Something to consider while we wait on the scum to post.

No, not really. There's nothing concrete or confirmable we can gain from it.

Vi, why would you like to synth Illumina rather than geraintm?

I'm concluding from Illumina's vague description of her role that she is metal.
I'm also concluding that she is worth synthing in light of her refusal to claim.
Both of these place her ahead of someone who has not said anything at all IMO.

This can, of course, change in the near future based on what geraintm says/does. This would require Nati to prod geraintm, I believe...

[Vi]

Unvote. Vote: Vi

I'm blaming Grem's death on you. I think Ort is Glissa. You were the other one to be serumed last night. I still like my synth on Geraintm.

Is that so?~ But haven't I already told you what my serum power has done?

Vote

x2

(Lynch): TonyMontana
Vote

x2

(Serum): Porkens
Vote

x2

(Mycosynth): Illumina

tbqh I find you (CF Riot) to be most suspicious; at the same time your claim has been demonstrated well enough that there's no sense in arguing against it. Thus I will choose those who hesitated least.

----

General FYI: 'Deadline's in four days.

[Vi]

Actually, rereading I think I've changed my mind.

Unvote

x2

(Mycosynth): Illumina
Vote

x2

(Mycosynth): geraintm

[Vi]

@TonyMontana:

*Everyone has claimed.
*I believe Porkens, ortolan, and (against my better judgment) CF Riot.
*I have immediate reason to disbelieve you, Illumina, and geraintm.
*Between the three in the latter category, upon rereading I'm more comfortable with Illumina.
*Scum generally don't quickhammer their partners; besides, all the information we can get is here (that was the major reason I didn't want anyone to prematurely end the day) and the quickhammerer will look poor going into tomorrow anyway.
*CF Riot disbelieves my serum claim, which is somewhat understandable in the sense it hasn't been "proven" yet. (To contrast, you don't.) This should prove it for yas.
*'No sense in not taking a stand when I feel I've made an informed decision.

Show me why someone else is a better lynch (myself included, although you shouldn't expect my vote to follow in that case), or jump in a noose. Those are your options.

----

I'm having a second thought, regarding giving the serum to CF Riot the Tracker instead. Thoughts?

[Vi]

If you give me the serum today you MUST give it to me tomorrow or it's game over for town (unless we hit scum today and tomorrow, which is possible.) I'd like to give Pork a chance to use his power if he wants it, but in the event that we hit scum today the tracker power would be good tonight in that it could clear someone (if I live.) If we don't hit scum, it's WIFOMy because a null result could mean the partner sent the kill.

'Didn't consider the partner deal. All right, cancel that idea, although I hope Porkens has something good coming.

Vi, I don't doubt you can double vote, but Triskelion was a 3 armed robo-thingy. It also said he could fire off arms to kill creatures. It made flavor sense to me that if the serum activated your arms, you could've fired off one at Grem and used the other today to gain double-voting.

Hmm... That makes some flavor sense, true. But that would also mean that I'm liekwhoaverpowered as a role - an extra NK

and

a scum-doublevote, seriously?

TM I actually think you're only at L-2 since I unvoted.

I believe this is correct.

Illumina I was not calling you scum. I haven't voted you or tried to synth you. I'm merely explaining my take on your claim. If you'll notice, TM's card is black too, so that's not really a point against you any more than him. Also I just looked up SSK's card for the first time and it was blue like mine, so color isn't a huge factor but it's something to consider. I didn't "selectively quote" anything. I went by what I read. The passage you linked to

sort of

implies metal. It also says your character is in constant conflict with the Aurioks, which is what Wall-E was. It also says you are controlled by Geth, the same person who supposedly told TM to kill Glissa. I think these are more points against you than what I brought up earlier. So maybe I am calling you scum now.

Flavor logic again - and it counts for more than actually reading the thread for these last 900some posts? I can only buy this up to a point.
Incidentally, you realize that at least one (and probably two) of the three PM quotes we just got are falseclaims, right? Do you really think that part of the function of a falseclaim is to crumb an actual scum PM? It's not like anyone's going to claim Memnarch right now.

I'm going to totally flip flop on my earlier prediction and go with a new guess of Vi + Illumina team, which would explain his baseless defense of her when he first replaced into the game and post 954. The thing that troubles me here is Illumina's town cred from when she suggested redoing the serum N1 still hangs in the back of my mind. All in all I'm really confused and I think I need to post less and let my fellow townies back me up, but that's just not my style. =P

Oh don't worry, you don't post enough as it is.
Meanwhile, considering

you

're the one who showed me why Illumina was probably Town by the serum wagon, I'm not sure why you're bashing me for coming to the same conclusion upon rereading - because your most recent flavor logic contradicts it!

One more note, if you're into flavor and gaming the setup. You'll notice that SSK, noted scum, let a quote from his true role slip and was caught on that, and then refused to quote his own role PM. 'Sound accurate so far? Now remember when and what Timeater claimed without hesitation on Page 3. It's quite possible that one reason why we may have gotten so much stalling is that they were waiting on Nati to put out falseclaims. WIFOM, you cry? Only as much as what you're doing.

---

You call CF "the most suspicious," but you don't vote for him. I know: cliams blah blah blah.

That about sums it up. If it were not that I don't think his claim is false, I would be voting him to hell and back right now.

[Vi]

If you formed a town opinion of Illumina based on what I said, it should've occured before you placed that vote.

orly
The reason I immediately voted Illumina for the mycosynth was because she was one of the two who hesitated to claim. I looked into their activity elsewhere; geraintm is the one who did not stall before claiming, and has the most likely alibi (that is, he's least likely to have been intentionally stalling). (This doesn't necessarily make him Town, but it does make his claim somewhat more reputable... which begs the question of why I'm synthing him, since his claim actually makes setup sense and isn't an obvious vanilla-ish cover...)

Hold that thought.

Unvote

x2

(Mycosynth): geraintm
Vote

x2

(Mycosynth): Illumina

I'm also not against your opinion of her now, I'm more worried about when you first replaced TE, and declared Illumina to be townish when she had posted very very little.

I can't really defend that, except to say that it was late at night and I was fed up with reading this topic twenty pages before I finally quit (still somewhere in D1). You asked me why I thought Illumina was Town soon afterward, and upon rereading I couldn't really find anything to back it up, so I retracted that stance.

tbqh I'm not sure about either of them any more, as geraintm passes the claim test (somewhat) and Illumina passes the serum test (somewhat). TonyMontana fails both and more!

Meanwhile, considering you're the one who showed me why Illumina was probably Town by the serum wagon, I'm not sure why you're bashing me for coming to the same conclusion upon rereading - because your most recent flavor logic contradicts it!

The

[above]

doesn't make sense.

It appears that the only problem you have with Illumina is flavor-based. That's REALLY weak. Do you have other reasons for suspecting Illumina in particular? And whatever happened to TonyMontana?

[Vi]

if you're town it's extremely irresponsible to put all 3 votes on L-1, and the fact that you did it immediatly after being voted makes it that more suspicious.

Not really; I've already said why.
All of my votes put someone to at least L-2 anyway.

---

I'm not at all convinced of TM's scumminess. Look at post 876 where he attacks MafiaSSK long before, for example, I realised MafiaSSK was scum. Porkens had only just placed suspicion on MafiaSSK before that and were TM scum trying to save his buddy he could have simply refrained from posting or focused on something else at that point to avoid bandwagoning his buddy.

rlynao

I do believe you didn't know TE claimed, cause honestly who bothers reading the random stage when replacing. I also believe you were a rolecop. It's just made either irrelevant, or suspicious by the fact that you refuse to quote your role PM.

That's the kindest, gentlest "attack" I've ever seen. obvbus

I agree, think about what sort of powers scum might get from the serum. If they got an extra night-kill, SURELY the mod would also give them an ability which they could prove they had the next day to avoid making it obvious that the extra night-kill was due to them getting the serum. The double-voting seems a perfect example of this- it's not too strong either. Of course it's also kind of consistent with a metal townie- the mod wouldn't want to make their ability overpowered for town if they're already metal and non-night-killable.

I hope for your sake that you aren't modding any games here or elsewhere in the near future. Quick rundown here.

You say I

must

be scum because this setup makes sense:
*Part of being scum means games are usually imbalanced in my favor to start with.
*I can already kill someone at night (with a few other people's input) as scum.
*With the serum, I can kill someone ELSE on my own.
*With the serum, I can ALSO doublevote. As scum, this pushes the time when

we

control the majority of the votes (endgame) forward one day.
*Lest you forget, I was metal at the start of the game and basically invincible to any Town vigging, SKs, lynches, copper bread buns, or whatever else is out there.
*The serum-fueled kill is perfectly explained by a "falseclaim" of doublevoting, except it's not a falseclaim at all.

But I

must not

be Town because this setup doesn't make sense:
*I was metal, ergo immune to NKs.
*With the serum, I can doublevote. Doublevoting is less of a threat in Town hands than scum, IMO, because I'm not deliberately trying to end the game (see other list).

It's also obvious from the claims we've seen that the scum were given at least two fake-claims between them, perhaps communally or perhaps individually.

Obvious? How so?

Furthermore I think for game balance reasons, assuming there is only 3 scum (which there really must be, would be too unbalanced otherwise), then there is/was at least one metal townie, even if Timeater/Vi is actually scum. From that I infer the last two scum probably is/were metal. Tell me if you think that's a bad assumption.

I wouldn't assume it immediately. The easy way to go about this is to synth everyone at this point.

But, c'mon Vi's jumped around FoSing the townies looking players- CF Riot and TM.

Maybe because I don't see them as townie looking?
Or to put it in a more sanguine manner--

God, CF, if you're scum, I can see you winning this one already. But Ort is just shoveling himself deeper with every single post, so I don't really care!

Nonetheless, you'll notice I still haven't VOTED CF Riot. 'Wonder why that is, mmm?

It's possible that CF Riot (and Porkens/TM) have gone to a hugely elaborate gambit with their scumbuddy MafiaSSK and deliberately both tried to not give him the serum day one despite it being randomly chosen, and further bandwagoned him to get him lynched, but if they were clever enough to do this to clear them town never had a chance.

Bussing.

Do you understand it?

The odds of there being scum on the SSK wagon are pretty good. To me, the SSK wagon looked like a follow-the-Porkens-so-we-get-a-lynch deal. Which is why Porkens is very much off my suspect list, and I don't think it helps anyone else.

As far as not seruming,
*CF Riot didn't give Tuberkulos the serum in the first place.
*TonyMontana serumed Tuberkulos and

never argued against it

.
*geraintm serumed Tuberkulos, told people who were looking at Tuberkulos for lurking to look at Gremwell too, and never withdraws it (calling Illumina something of a traitor for leaving it).
*Illumina serumed Tuberkulos, but had second thoughts later. Did not withdraw it.
*ortolan serumed Tuberkulos, having second thoughts later but not withdrawing it.

---

Something that helped me to remember though was: We hung MSSK because of his claimed role and behavior, not his flavor.

Bingo.

Two people got the Serum last night - Ort and Vi. If we can possibly assume that only Serraphim had a free ability (to give the serum), as the rules of the game suggest, one of them; Ort and Vi, must have gotten an ability that let them kill Gremwell, even though he was metal.

What makes you so sure that there isn't another person with a non-Vanilla ability? It would make sense for Memnarch (not me) to have it. And it's not like the mod was telling the whole truth the first time...
Another thing to consider - ortolan's claim was

never proven

; in fact it's unprovable. So why is everyone jumping on me for my seruming, again?

IIRC, Vi has also pushed for getting the serum.

No, I didn't. I was the one saying

there's no point in me getting the serum

, as I didn't see anything in my Role PM that hinted at what would happen.

----

what does this refer to?

I didn't want the day to end without everyone having claimed.

you realise this explanation makes you look worse now,dont you?

Somewhat. I'm not going to try to alter history.

----

My understanding of godfather is probably different than yours? Mine is: Will appear as town if investigated by a cop.

It appears the popular understanding of Godfather in this game is: Memnarch. Does whatever the hell he wants.

If Vi flips town; I think we have lost this one, but I don't see a good alternative. You are more likely town than Vi, so I'm putting all my eggs in one basket.

Why?
Until ortolan claimed Glissa Sunseeker, you and a number of other people wanted ortolan to be shot, in this game and possibly outside it.

Wait a minute, wait a minute. If you didn't kill Grem, and you don't think Vi killed Grem, how do you think he died?

Memnarch. Does whatever the hell he wants. It would make some flavor sense, and since we're not assured that every role is vanilla...

I think Triskelion is a true claim but the alignment is 3rd party.

Given the text quoted to you, that's understandable. Incorrect, but understandable.

-------------
@@@@@@
-------------

Conclusions:

*Why is TonyMontana still alive.
*Illumina's note that he could have hammered TonyMontana when he was at L-1 can show that there's no link between US, but doesn't disprove a link with TonyMontana. I still think it's TM and Illumina for the win. (At this point,

their

win).
*I'm going to have to decide on geraintm's claim being okay. In addition to being specifically Mycosynth-based - which pairs with Seraphim's Blinkmoth-based claim - he quoted it without hesitation.
*ortolan is losing the game for Town again. I'm having a hard time deciding whether Glissa is a falseclaim or not, but I would place him as third to TonyMontana and Illumina.
*

Lord, this town fails.

Any questions you may have for me are welcomed. Any hate mail you may have for me will be politely ignored half the time.

[Vi]

if you're town it's extremely irresponsible to put all 3 votes on L-1, and the fact that you did it immediatly after being voted makes it that more suspicious.

Not really; I've already said why.
All of my votes put someone to at least L-2 anyway.

You put *everyone* at L-1.
And I fail to see where you explained how putting the vote, synth and serum on L-1 was *not* risky. I did find where you explained why you *wouldn't* put them to L-2, tho, a few posts before you put them to L-1.

And L-1 means nothing in the long run.
As far as it not being risky at the time I voted, it's quite simple. I didn't want anyone to end the day before all claims were made. Now that all claims have been made, I'd like to go forward with what I believe without forcing my will upon others (that is, going past L-1). If anyone wants to quickhammer, all it can do is hurt them. It's not rocket surgery.

The thing that I'm contemplating now is whether we should synth Ill or Geraintm. If it's a TM/Geraintm combo and TM is actually steel-claiming-flesh, then we would be screwed tomorrow if we tried to lynch him. So maybe synth Geraintm today and if Vi flips scum then synth Ill tomorrow because we won't be in LYLO in that scenario and a mislynch would be okay. What say you town?

Just the usual problem. I'm still having a difficult time understanding how from a balance standpoint you can think I'm a ludicrously overpowered scum. And even if you hang me as an SK (for argument's sake, although an SK that can't kill without serum is royally retarded), you'll still be in LyLo tomorrow.

So incidentally, CF, why am I scum?

@Porkens: Oh wow. I think I see the implication.

[Vi]

Oho! And, also;

You are Triskelion, town-aligned metal fleet.
You are the Blinkmoth Nexus, town-aligned Serum Giver.
You are Glissa Sunseeker, town-aligned protagonist.
You are are a Mycosynth Golem, Town-Aligned Metal Master of Mycosynth.
You are a Nim Lasher, Town-aligned Lasher.
You are a Moriok Scavenger, town-aligned graverobber.
You are the Eternal Witness, town-aligned Witness.
You are a Neurok Spy, town-aligned Spy.

Look close and tell me which two are noticeably different. Then look at who those claims belong to.

There are a few pairs that are noticeably different. But I think I can see which two people you're looking at.
And there's another thing that's different about one of those two, if you consider who has claimed metal...

Perhaps my/our priorities are misordered, as far as lynching and mycosynthing goes?

[Vi]

Be more specific about what you think I see.

You are Triskelion, town-aligned

metal

fleet.
You are the Blinkmoth Nexus, town-aligned Serum Giver.
You are Glissa Sunseeker, town-aligned protagonist.
You are are a Mycosynth Golem,

T

own-Aligned

Metal

Master of Mycosynth.
You are a Nim Lasher,

T

own-aligned

[metal]

Lasher.
You are a Moriok Scavenger, town-aligned graverobber.
You are the Eternal Witness, town-aligned Witness.
You are a Neurok Spy, town-aligned Spy.

[You are a]

Death-Mask Duplicant,

T

own-Aligned

Metal

Body Double

The bolded (what I think you see) seems to have been changed in NB's roleflips to caps in every case but one, but I wanted to toss that one flip in at the bottom so you could see what I saw (italicized).

[Vi]

I've got room for improvement in this game.

That's usually my line.

Similarly, I've got an exam that's worth over half my grade in eight hours, so I'll be sleeping/studying for a while. Please don't off me in the next twelve hours.

Before I go, though, I think I need to change some things around.

Unvote

x2

(Mycosynth): Illumina
Vote

x2

(Mycosynth): geraintm
Unvote

x2

(Lynch): TonyMontana
Vote

x2

(Lynch): Illumina

Illumina dahling, you've played mahvelously. But that claim won't do at all - you simply can't be seen with that kind of discrepancy, I insist!

Unofficial Vote Count

Vi(1): Porkens
Illumina(2): Vi
Not Voting(5): Illumina, TonyMontana, CF Riot, geraintm, ortolan

Unofficial Serum Count

Porkens(4): CF Riot, Vi, Porkens

Not Seruming(4): Illumina, TonyMontana, geraintm, ortolan

Unofficial Synth Count

Illumina(1): Porkens
geraintm(2): Vi
Not Synthing(5): Illumina, TonyMontana, CF Riot, geraintm, ortolan

To establish majority: 4
Deadline: Sunday, December 14th

[Vi]

Nice 500 Error, bluehost -.-

God, I'm not drunk; I swear!

UNVOTE
UNSYNTH

VOTE: Illumina
MYCOSYNTH: Geraintm

Don't swear at me, yeh drunkard~

Really should have lynched Vi today, his ability is useless and apart from no longer giving us his views it would not affect the outcome of the game (sorry for triple post)

The same argument could be made for you. With much love.

Unofficial Vote Count

Illumina(4): Vi, Porkens, geraintm

Vi(2): ortolan, TonyMontana
Not Voting(2): Illumina, CF Riot

Unofficial Serum Count

Porkens(5): CF Riot, Vi, Porkens, ortolan

Not Seruming(3): Illumina, TonyMontana, geraintm

Unofficial Synth Count

geraintm(4): Vi, Porkens, ortolan

Illumina(2): geraintm, TonyMontana
Not Synthing(2): Illumina, CF Riot

To establish majority: 4
Deadline: Whenever N.B. gets back.

If the serum or synth votes don't go through, I encourage all blame to be placed on the hammerer (geraintm).
Meanwhile, times like these make me wish I WAS a Serial Killer. With unlimited daykill capacity.

[Vi]

Vi wasn't the hammer. Why LOOK AT HIM (he's an sk, this has been established.)

...

[Vi]

Also, geraintm was certainly the one who hammered, but Vi's two votes extended the opportunity, and probably wasn't the most prudent play.

I can't exactly help an automatic doublevote, y'know.
So it's still all/mostly MY fault, is it? It's not like I can stop people from voting with abandon.

[Vi]

It's the lot of the SK to have to go against both sides. Today was a day to go against the scum.

j00. Tell me why I'm the SK. Nao.

[Vi]

I'm not gunna re-hash it. Check my recent posts.

No. I'm done trying to read your mind, especially when doing so would be arguing against myself.

[Vi]

>:-[

[Vi]

If you get another vote every time you nightkill someone, I'll be sad.

We'll worry about that when the time comes, ne? (That would require me to, y'know, actually be able to kill someone...)
Although that is an interesting role idea. Difficult to balance, but may work in a large game. *stores*

[Vi]

All the Illumina lynch votes were ignored. This is not Twilight.

The deadline is in two days. I like the discussion kick we've been on recently, but we need to stay on top of this game.

Also in response to Illumina,

Unvote

x2

(Lynch): TonyMontana

[Vi]

I'm fairly sure that's not a concern to Porkens at this point.

On the neutral side, his unvote and vote didn't actually do anything...

Question @Illumina: Why are you sticking up for me at this point? ('Not an accusation, just asking.)

[Vi]

I'm puzzled as to why everyone is voting you and ignoring the people who delayed their claims...

I'm puzzled as to why you keep repeating this line, even though you were the last to claim, and the only one who blatantly delayed.

I think you know well that Illumina wasn't the only one who blatantly delayed.

[Vi]

I'm getting my return post to ortolan ready, so give me a few minutes already.

Sneak preview of what's to come:

But let's go look at the SSK wagon, since you're bringing it up.

*Porkens: Hates SSK's role initially but votes Timeater until his claim came in. Puts SSK and Timeater as one-or-the-other scum, and at first chooses Timeater while synthing SSK. Was on him about having such a lame role all day. Nabs SSK on claiming a true role (by flavor) and proceeds to vote him for the rest of the day.
*Timeater: First person to synth SSK for surviving the night. Starts leaving him alone to mess with the whole serum fiasco.
*Vi: Was willing to give SSK another chance to quote his PM, and gave a few extra chances while fighting Porkens. OMGIS. Denies that giving SSK the serum again would be a good move.
*CF Riot: Initially is against SSK's reluctance to claim, and pressures him to fullclaim in 756. Eventually decided to try synthing SSK and serum-vigging him while not sure of his alignment. As the SSK wagon builds, he seems against his lynch, saying that "SSK will claim as he gets in trouble" (paraphrasing 880).
*ortolan: Initially was okay with SSK not claiming if he thought it was okay. Calls the case on him "implausible" (719) and goes as far as to say that the case on SSK was "paperthin" (864). Defends SSK's choice of Role Cop target in 790, and says that he does not want SSK to have to claim in 793. Reads Gremwell as Town, interesting in light of the kill.
*geraintm: Doesn't say much but express general disapproval of people not saying what their serums did. Says in 751 that SSK could be serum-vigged; I think he's the first person to mention it. Later asks if SSK could be third-party after he refuses to claim. Eventually synths "mafiascum", saying he's not a fan of him, but that's about as harsh as his disapproval ever got.
*TonyMontana: Initially not sure if SSK should claim. Eventually says that SSK shouldn't have been given the serum. Swallows that SSK didn't read the random stage and that he's a Role Cop.

*Porkens: First on the wagon. Has hated SSK for a long time.
*TonyMontana: Second on the wagon. Votes for not quoting his role PM, though he believes it.
*Illumina: Third on the wagon, immediately after TonyMontana. Considers serum-vigging SSK, but votes him for not quoting his role PM.
*Vi: Fourth on the wagon. Has reread and decided that SSK has had way too much time to claim.
*CF Riot: Fifth on the wagon. Just wants to get the actions passed. =S
*ortolan: Sixth and hammerer. Votes SSK because he's not around to do anything (lurking) and to get some actions passed.

Well, the good news for your point of view is that TonyMontana does look better now. The bad news is, the scumpair shifts heavily to

you [ortolan] and geraintm

, with a substantially smaller side order of CF Riot. geraintm is metal. Guess what that means.

[Vi]

Um not it definitely couldn't. Few if any doubt that I am town this game. I meant to demonstrate why your post 983 was so wrong but thought it was pointless because you'd already decided to lynch a claimed metal (nice work on that), but it looks like I'll get another chance:

People doubt you're scum

solely

because of your Glissa claim. Read Day 2 again, and see just how much everyone has put you on the shelf because of your Glissa claim. Nobody has questioned your night action, immediately blaming me for the death earlier.

Hmm.

In addition, you DID see

why

I decided to lynch a claimed metal, right?

That's not clear, several people have shown an overeager mentality this game regardless of scumminess- promoting ending the day quickly by putting people on L-1 is not helpful to town.

There's overeager, then there's stupid/opportunistic. What a shame geraintm isn't here to speak for himself.

The fact is it was backed up by a vote at a stage where TM could simply have ignored the wagon. He had previously said he wished they had revoked the serum, and also that he believed MafiaSSK's claim and that he hadn't realised Timeater had already claimed. He then went on to vote him anyway for refusal to quote his role pm. You didn't take account of the context. The fact TM's claim has a lowercase "t" (which you're using as a fairly substantial criterion of towniness) vindicates this to some extent.

Were we right, or were we wrong about reading into the wording of the claims? You decide.
The thing about not knowing Timeater claimed is utter garbage; replacements are expected to read the whole topic to have context for what followed. Never mind that the massive lurking and general unhelpfulness is a very good reason IMO for disliking TonyMontana from the beginning, and almost saw him lynched D2.

<snipping stuff you saw in 1065>

The personal attack was totally unnecessary because I was not offering my opinions about what *would* make for a balanced game but what is the case this game. And in fact I have seen roles in many games which are much, much more powerful than in any other roles in the game are.

So have I; I've seen a Town role that can be activated easily to gain the ability to cancel nights and reveal anyone who uses a night action on him (if they can get it in before he cancels it). Was that game good? No.
Moreover, I trust Natirasha wouldn't put such a horrible role in his game; he's a reasonably active moderator and doesn't have an awful reputation. What's probable, do you think?

I never said you *must* be scum.

But didn't you just say that it made sense for me to be scum with all those powers, and have you expressed interest in an alternative theory?

??? Why??? Setups are usually meant to be balanced

Mountainous (all vanillas) is not balanced, therefore I believe scum has an inherent advantage in games before roles are factored in. This game IS mostly vanilla, realize.
I think there's a related discussion in MD right now about the worth of scum and Town. Mafia can use their planning and knowledge of the setup to defeat the Town more easily than the Town can use their numbers to press the Mafia.

I've already explained I don't think it's preposterous, if you did get an extra night-kill then you'd need some way of explaining it.

And the explanation is preposterous.

Is this a slip up? The person killed by being sandwiched between two copper bread buns *was* metal, or at least appeared to be so. Therefore you'd be equally vulnerable to it, assuming you're town.

It is a slip in that I forgot Gremwell was metal. Good catch.

Because everyone alive has produced claims which were obviously written by the mod, and we know there are at least two scum left.

I was referring more to the "communally" idea, which I don't see much and really don't like personally. 'Not worth talking about; dropping it.

Well, yes, if we have the luxury of synthing everyone this is kind of entailed by what I said. It is totally inconsistent with you opting to waste a lynch on Illumina however.

For the, what, third time - do you realize WHY I did not believe the lynch on Illumina was a waste?

What does this even mean?

I'm defending my stance on CF Riot. I think he's scummy, but not scum.

Again, don't understand what point you're trying to make. You seem to speculate that they were bussing and then say they weren't...

Reading comprehension.

Do you use it?

Again. I believe there was bussing going on. I do not believe Porkens was doing it because he started the wagon.

So being guaranteed in people's role pms and not being counter-claimed isn't very good proof I am town? It's virtually like being confirmed by the mod. I don't know how you could think it's "unprovable"

*Falseclaims.
*

Bastard

Clever modding.
*A night action that is unproveable on the same night as an extra kill.

Timeater certainly did, even if you didn't

At the beginning of D1. O.M.G.

-----

Lynch Vi. The simplest explanation for the new kill flavor is a 3rd part killer. That means it's Ort or Vi.

And considering I have demonstrated my serum ability, I would come to the opposite conclusion.

CF, I still don't know why getting the serum for the rest of the game would seem bad to me if I were a

tracker

.

One kill. Ten players. Let's use some probability here.

-----

I don't, actually. I claimed the second time I logged in after my vacation. Only reason I didn't claim the first time, was because Illumina and Porkens requested that I didn't.

*checks*
...Actually, that's correct. I'm starting to agree with Porkens that--

he is one of the few who's recent posting has made me see him as more pro-town.

-----

I will wait for Vi to respond before re-voting him, but the fact remains numbers-wise, if we lynch him versus lynching Illumina who I don't really have that much reason to doubt is metal, we will learn a whole lot and the game won't end any earlier (Starting Day 4 with 6 players versus 5 means we are in LyoL no matter what).

What, exactly, do you plan on learning from my flip should it be Town? (and it will be)

-----

I wasn't considering the possibility of a 3rd party.

I think you have the least to fear from my analysis.
Nonetheless, I don't think a third party makes sense in this setup.

[Vi]

I just thought of something.
If Mycosynth is what amounts to a parasitic mushroom that feeds on metal... then what sense does a metal Mycosynth Golem make? :v
I'm M:tG-illiterate, so stop me if I'm contradicting canon here, but...

[Vi]

The part in bold is a misquote. Ort kept saying we should just wait until SSK showed up and claimed, and I repeatedly told him, as worded from 880, "He won't. It's deadline. He put it of this long for a reason. He probably won't post til tomorrow." I was saying SSK was avoiding claiming intentionally.

'Messed that one up. 'Not sure why I made that choice of words, sorry.

Pork you said something about me (if I were scum) wanting more fleshies for my scum motives. This is flawed in that we've all mass-claimed, so if I were scum I would know who my easy targets were already.

The easy targets have already been decided, ne?

I'll hammer Vi when everyone is ready. Vi, if you've got last words you better get 'em out there.

This is my first time getting lynched in the ~5.5 months I've been playing. Normally I'd extend congratulations, but in this case I'm Town. I did my best with the cards I was dealt (considering I never actually said "yes I'll replace in") and hope I was doing something right sometime in my scumhunting. Good luck; at the rate you're going you'll need it.

-----

I'm well aware I would have come under much greater suspicion were I not Glissa and had not claimed. That doesn't mean it's not very good evidence I am town *specifically because almost everyone's role pm says I am*. And I don't believe anyone has blamed you for Gremwell's death, some such as me have strongly considered the possibility you are responsible however

CF Riot has explicitly said that I am responsible for Gremwell's death. Porkens is hanging me as a third party with the unique kill flavor. That's half the wagon right there.
And yes, your claim IS poor evidence because it's entirely possible for it to be fabricated. Porkens? He actually DID something to be demonstrated Town. You? All you did was quote a Role PM; you didn't actually DO anything.

I think so, but would you spell it out please so I can check your argument.

Hesitated to claim, check.
Quiet through the game, check.
Wording of Role PM did not sync with the others', check.

I am suspicious of you placing doubt on me and CF Riot. Me vs CF Riot and Porkens was very prevalent earlier in the game and has turned right around based on their detective work and my roleclaim specifically. You seem to be the only? person who still tries to place suspicion on us.

Am I placing suspicion on the two of you BECAUSE of those early-game events? Hm, no. So this point is invalid.
And thanks for recognizing that you were only cleared by your claim~

I've actually pasted the text after I got serumed. I'm not sure if you have. It would be to see it (again?).

...Actually, I haven't. One moment.

As you go to hide during the night, a crowd of moth-like creatures surround you. Soon, you feel a strange feeling. Then, time seems to slow. The world feels...different. It's obvious, you have ascended to the next level.

Your skills of splitting and recombining your seperate portions now have a real use. You've realized that you can split yourself to make it seem as if there are more of you.

During Day Three, you will have two votes.

I'll certainly not say it syncs with the flavor of Triskelion, but it's got competition in that regard, I think.

Not sure, but as far as I can tell it will finally reveal to us whether or not you're scum and carries no drawbacks apart from you no longer giving us your opinions. Of course it's possible there is another double night-kill but that seems a ridiculously unfair setup to me.

The question of me being scum is rather unreasonable. Of course, if you really are what you claim to be, you might get to see an extra night-kill anyway. That one probably won't be my fault either.

Finally, Vi, I don't think you've yet replied as to why you specifically think my play is bad, even today, so when you reply to my last post would you answer that as well?

You didn't see my analysis of D2, where you were basically on SSK's side until the very end?

[Vi]

You said "ortolan is losing the game for Town again" implying my play was still errant. I admit it was less than optimal on days 1 and 2 but I was wondering what about today you seemed to have a problem with...apparently nothing.

oic
That had to do with the reasonably large amount of Bad Logic you were pushing on me to make me out to be scum, addressed earlier in that post.
(Yes, I see Porkens is doing the same thing but I have more faith in him. Granted, me having faith in someone usually means they flip scum, but whatever.)

What does this mean?

I'm not responsible for Gremwell's death.
If you weren't either, then chances are you might see another extra night-kill for the same unexplained reasons.

[Vi]

Ah, I almost forgot about this. In the interest of stopping (or further delaying) my own mislynch...

Vote

x2

(Extension) - Yes

What does synthing me today have to do with that? Whether I'm synthed or not, steel or not, that's an obvious winning play for scum. By my own logic, I'd be flesh claiming steel if I were scum right now and town would be wasting its precious time. That's my point. Why do you think people wanted to lynch me earlier but couldn't?

You were not lynched earlier because you had already received a majority of synth votes.
(However, you do win truthiness points for saying "tough luck, I AM metal" when you thought you were lynched.)

Illumina, you've shown that you think geraintm is scum. Who else is likely scum?

[Vi]

Didn't we already use our one-time extention?

No.

Vote yourself instead, Vi.

Sorry, I don't feel like risking an IC-ban for self-hammering as Town.
Even if that were not relevant, I'm

just

not emo enough to roll over and die on command.

----

Yes, but my impression was that people wanted to lynch me because they didn't believe my metal claim.

This is correct.

I think geraintm's claim is more suspicious than mine, and no one seems as interested in his, which seems weird to me.

To that end, I think today's impact on tomorrow will be looking at the impacts each player had on the decisions that were made today.

[Vi]

You have not formally used your extention, so you know. However, it is not a vote-thing, and doublevotes don't count towards the extension.

'Can't blame me for trying.

Or

CAN

you?

In the event of my untimely demise today, would the remaining players lose the option of an (my) extension, for clarification purposes?

[Vi]

Bad logic is bad logic, irrespective of how town in your mind the person is. If I am suspicious of you for similar reasons to Porkens, my actualy *logic* can't be any worse than his simply based on you thinking he is more likely to be town. You might doubt my *motivations*, however.

Good distinction. I was willing to give Porkens more lenience based on his play yesterday and today. As of recently, I'm not so sure any more, as I see him as one of the major forces pushing this lynch.

And what is snowboarding? Is that a mafia term (just out of curiosity)?

Snowboarding is similar to skateboarding, but on ski slopes. I tossed it in for comic relief in light of Post #1080, as 1080 refers to doing three complete spin-turns in midair (360 degrees + 360 degrees + 360 degrees).

Out of curiosity, ortolan, where geographically are you from? You can be vague if you like.

If nothing else I want to find out if SpyreX was right about you (remember he did sacrifice himself on day 1 because he was so sure of your alignment).

Being dead and Town doesn't mean he's right. The whole informal suicide pact idea was retarded IMO anyway.

No we cannot, because I think it's possible that if we mislynch today we will actually just lose before day 4 even dawns, if scum again get two nightkills. That said I'd rather take the risk on Vi.

In other words, you're exceptionally confident that I'm scum.

I wouldn't go past you being scum with Vi and geraintm being an SK.

I don't think SKs fit in this setup, again. Moreover, interactions with SSK (who didn't fit in this setup either ) would suggest that geraintm is more likely scum than third party.

----

The dramatic juxtaposition of desperate pleading, gallows humor, semirational discussion, fierce bloodlust, relative nonchalance, indecision, and conspicuous absence of the real criminal makes for interesting reading - especially considering I speak as the second listed participant - but if you're not going to make a decision soon, you're going for No Lynch. Whether that's preferable or not is basically up to you. But now would be a good time to put in for the deadline extension if you plan on/expect to be delaying much longer. It's free for you and cheap for the mod.

[Vi]

Btw, please don't hammer Vi before we at least hear from geraintm. I'm interested in what he says before the day ends.

Bad news. geraintm doesn't post on weekends.

-----

Could be a good point, I'll have to have another look. Can you remember any posts off the top of your head?

I posted my analysis of D2 and the SSK wagon a while ago; you can use that as a start. In addition, I see some rare instances of defending the Tuberkulos seruming--

dislike anyone who has started to question the randomness of the serum for today. i have to sit there and wonder why they would do that.

what, spyrex you are no capaigning for the serum too? you are not going to get it. you know as well as anyone it was randomly assigned. voting yourself isn't. naughty, naughty boy!

(...)

argh! i signed up for the random seruming. i thought it was the best idea for today as i terrible on day ones in all mafia. naughty illuminia for trying to bck off this, esp as spyrex just revoted tuber...

--as well as interesting stuff like--

re orts posting on turbo's lurking. is his urking just in this game or site wide?

About annocing serums power, say person got a cop ability, and he used it and got innocent on someone. is it a good idea to post that straight up then?

and with everyone noticing turbos lurking, grem seems quiet poor too

Porkens - someone later on asked the same question, role cup = scum why? not seen the role before in a game,s orry for beign thick

(...)

re:lynching time or mafia - if mafia turns out bad, can be serumed to be killed at some point in the future without being lynched

A pattern is found.

[Vi]

1080 Snowboarding was a video game too right?

You know my area of expertise well

Since Mycosynth Golem is really a card, and really an artifact, I don't think the whole idea of being mycosynth and steel is suspicious. It doesn't seem to contradict itself to me.

So in order to take the metal off a Mycosynth Golem, you have to throw it into a pit of... more... mycosynth...
My head's starting to hurt, and I only just woke up :v

Why TonyMontana in particular?

[Vi]

I would say i'm pretty confident that at least one of the claimed metals are scum. I'm slightly more suspicious of geraintm versus Vi, but I don't think testing out his metal is a better bet.
So I still think we should lynch Vi, and throw geraintm in the synth tomorrow.
I guess it's a choice between risking a mislynch and risking a no-lynch. What sounds better?

That depends entirely on how much you believe the person you No Lynch is Town. Longer deadline, no potential for auto-loss overnight, and less likelihood of a quicklynch loss at LyLo

vs

confirmation that someone is/has been Town, should you need it. (Of course, you can sub in "killing a scum" on the right side of the italics if you believe that's the case.)

It seems like you've pegged the remaining mafiers between me and geraintm. Do you think that we are partners, or is there anyone else you think is being sketchy?

[Vi]

I do see Vi/ger as the most likely scumteam, but only under the premise that one of you are lying about the metal.

Considering how much I'm drilling into geraintm now?
(Also note that I'm obvflesh, and have never claimed anything to the contrary of being once-metal.)

If there isn't a scumteam between you, ger and Ill

, i'd be looking at porkens or ort. Ort bus-hammering SSK seems more likely if Vi is town.

And how do you plan on finding this out?

After reading up, I find it most likely for Illumina to be the one to blame for gremwells death.

I also regret in retrospect that Illumina is in the synth instead of the noose. Synthing gerintm while testing Illumina would have been a better play, as I find Illuminas claim way less convincing.

Why?

[Vi]

Considering how much I'm drilling into geraintm now?
(Also note that I'm obvflesh, and have never claimed anything to the contrary of being once-metal.)

Well, obviously I'm referring to you and TE as the same person.
You drilling into geraintm is too WIFOMy for taking into consideration. If you and ger are on a team, I would expect nothing less.

How is pointing to obvious connections between SSK and geraintm WIFOMy? Independent of the claims, mind.
Moreover, considering the odds are still good that I'm going to be lynched, if I flip scum after providing these links (which you would consider "bussing") I'm doing you a favor!

By lynching one of you, obviously

If there isn't a scum

team

[two or more people]

between

you, ger and Ill,

[three people]

Quick quiz, what's 3-1, and is the answer small enough to preclude the possibility of a team?

Process of elimination, coupled with his sketchy claim. I think both geraintm and Illumina is scum, but not together, and geraintm seems more likely to be mafia.
I think I dismissed you having gotten a kill out of the serum, since you have proven you g ot a doublevote.

But thinking about it, it wouldn't be improbable that you would get doublevote as an SK.

Who do you see as most likely to be the thrid party?

I see it as most likely that there is no third party.
Also, I'm not sure how you can connect the dots from doublevote -> SK more easily than doublevote -> Town.
Meanwhile, you're saying Illumina is scum because nobody else is, aside from me and geraintm. Correct?

[Vi]

No, I meant that whether you going after geraintm should be a rose in your cap, if one are to believe geraintm is scum, is wifom.

I see. That's not what I was interested in doing; I'm countering your claim that me and geraintm may be scumpartners.

What are you trying to say, that I should give up the scumhunt?

Putting words in my mouth.
I'm asking how you can feasibly deduce that the scumteam is among three people based on one lynch. In other words, Try Harder.

You're saying you believe there's a vig then?

I believe there is an ability that is not counted for so far. It is most likely scum-aligned.

I didn't say you were more likely to be Sk from your doublevotes. I said doublevotes didn't exclude you from being one.

Obvious following question: Why do you think I could be an SK, since you're entertaining the possibility?

Nope. Wanna have another go at trying to make me look dumb?

You're doing a good job of doing it for me; I just need to ask the right questions. Let me show my thought process here.

Process of elimination,

coupled with his sketchy claim. I think both geraintm and Illumina is scum, but not together, and geraintm seems more likely to be mafia.

I do see Vi/ger as the most likely scumteam, but only under the premise that one of you are lying about the metal. If there isn't a scumteam between

you, ger and Ill

, i'd be looking at porkens

or ort.

So your argument against Illumina is "process of elimination"; elaborate on it.

Talking of making you look dumb, the vote on geraintm belongs to Illumina. (1073)

[Vi]

Porkens, it bothers me to no end that you want to lynch me for the SK but prefer to merely chant LYNCH VI LYNCH VI WHY HAVENT YOU LYNCHED VI YET instead of laying out exactly why you believe this is a good idea... especially considering the trust I've banked in you for the first half of the day at least. I would recommend you state your reasons immediately, because I would hate to be in your position tomorrow if I'm lynched and you survive the night. But I will readily enjoy watching you sweat from the sidelines.

@CF Riot: What is the problem with even numbers?

If there's still a second nightkill; I'll poop my pants.

Enticing as that is, it's not nearly satisfying enough to justify a Town loss if it DOES happen.

It's swingy. It's obvious that if we had 12 players with 4 team-skum is overpowered. But a 3 team-skum and a 3rd party SK isn't unbalanced because the SK also needs to kill the scum. So instead of 50-50 town/scum wins, its 30 30 30 Town, Scum, SK win. So is an SK worse for the town? Yes. But it's also worse for the scum.

There's one other factor you're not considering, unintentionally or otherwise.
What kind of lame SK role

requires

the serum to operate? If you do not think it's serum-dependent, what reason are you willing to give for the prevention of an NK N1 (remembering that the N2 hit pierced metal)?

Last, lest he be forgotten we're still waiting on geraintm.

[Vi]

I've always said it was serum dependent. And that's why it's either you or Ort.

I can't bring mself to believe that Glissa would be an SK, so...it's you.

Wait, so you're buying that I have the most retarded/useless SK role ever. And you're trusting a claim with no discernible serum effect over a claim that has a proven serum effect. And you're still not answering my questions or laying out your reasoning, leaving me to believe that you're pushing the easiest lynch for the sake of it being the easiest lynch.

I would press for your lynch with extreme prejudice, but unfortunately I don't think that would be allowed given the serum majority. So I'll just point your obviously fallacious logic out and find some popcorn to munch on as I watch your roast tomorrow (hopefully).

[Vi]

So, wait, you're using my doublevote as an argument to further suppose that I have killing power? I've never seen a role like this before, and I don't think you have - or will - either.

I am abandoning the idea that Glissa

must

be town. That’s purely flavor-biased idea, and I really think this game is going to come down to more than flavor.

'Looks like you've abandoned this abandonment; your reason for leaving ortolan out of the picture entirely is wholly based on flavor.

I would also argue that in a case like this, getting the serum

late

would be better. But that's me arguing about a hypothetical scenario about someone who likely wouldn't have bothered with the strategy, so :v

You do realise if you're still suggesting I was responsible for the night-kill that Porkens originally thought I was a vig. If I were an SK I could have just ridden on that claim he manufactured for me. Instead I told the truth and pasted the ability pm I got- which says what I got out of the serum was simply being untargetable.

WIFOM, etc. It's feasible to assume you had the safeclaim plotted overnight and didn't bother to change gears.

[Vi]

Trying to divert suspicion onto me when clearly no-one is going to vote me is not going to help you not get lynched

Getting lynched doesn't prevent my win condition. If what I say now points people in the right direction in the future, it's a net gain.

@Porkens: Well now I have. Although to me the role looks hideously overpowered, and thwarted mostly by the people who wasted it (looking at the players controlling it, I'm not surprised that no night choices were ever submitted).

[Vi]

If what I say now points people in the right direction in the future, it's a net gain.

and if it diverts suspicion onto me when I'm town (assuming you're town), it's a net loss

So knowing that this reciprocal relationship exists, what would you do with the suspicion?

[Vi]

Ok, this idea has been bothering me for some time as well; If you (plural) think it is just a 3-scum team; How did they get an extra nightkill? And

why

hadn't they been using it since the beginning?

One-shot extra.

I thought 9 vs. 3 was standard.

[Vi]

i am sorry if i was too hasty with my post on friday, i thought it was my last post before deadline and so i got it out.

Remind me to post that this is one of the things I hate in MD.
If you're not abs. confident in what you're doing, don't put down permanent votes. Until N.B. made some executive decisions, it was quite likely that you messed us all over. Luckily, it didn't turn out to be the case.

VI

Daykill: geraintm

geraintm, how much do you know about Magic: The Gathering? 'Just curious.

Argh, you still think i delayed my claim??

tbqh I'd back you on this rebuttal.

i think he worked out there were good odds with 2 lots of serum of the SK being triggered before the game ended

A neutral survivor with a one-shot-per-serum kill? That's even worse; try to think of the winning strategy for that and you'll see what I mean.

Re: even/odd numbers: That's assuming we're voting randomly. I always thought of it as requiring one extra person to lynch, which isn't necessarily bad (although apparently people disagree, especially with 3 Town vs. 1 scum in 4-person LyLo...)
But what do I know; I'm still learning this game almost half a year in :v

[Vi]

If we lynch the SK;

Without naming any names, of course.

While I realize that you like wearing your tinfoil hat, you're assuming that there exists an SK. Without doing so, your chances look noticeably better than the doomsday predictions you're making.

Also obligatory I'm-Not-The-SK spiel, etc. Porkens's reason for me being the SK is all OMGUS and WIFOM and SETUP and KEKEKE. But whatever suits you for being a "compelling argument", especially considering the obvious notion that an SK would get a falseclaim.

[Vi]

w/e

kk

If there is an SK, you'd have to be correct that it's Vi

and

I'm scum,

or town loses.

Why the bolded?

@CF Riot: Detail precisely what you believe about the setup re: the presence of an SK (naming said SK if necessary) and/or the number of kills to expect.

[Vi]

Well, I hope I demonstrated if nothing else that I'm frustratingly tough to lynch. It's the one thing I pride myself on in this game.

Enjoy your LyLo. While I doubt one exists, I hope for your sake there is no SK.

Good night.

[Vi]

...Actually, the above vote count is correct... minus that I'm not voting for anyone IIRC. <.<;; (But that can be remedied at will.)

Re: 1152 - I thought that was ortolan speaking in the second quote (and I typed Porkens anyway >_> ).
It doesn't

require

Illumina to be scum, just that TonyMontana and geraintm both aren't.

[Vi]

I'm still confident that we'll get the SK flip I've been expecting.

If it's town; muh bad.

FAKE

you still have not explained to anyone why you are metal

LIAR

what's this??

Look at my wiki page.

Illumina decides to, despite very recently assuring us how convinced he is Vi is town, despite there being a "no lynch" option. Assuming no double kill, lynch Illumina tomorrow, myco geraintm then lynch the day after to claim the win for town imho

And all the people saying OMG LYNCH VI ODD NUMBERS SK VI BEST OPTION FOR TOWN TINFOIL HATS couldn't possibly have had any influence.

[Vi]

It was because Illumina did try to explain, something about necrogen buildups.

But I see where you're coming from, so I will apologize for being so brazen in calling you out. (Sorry.)

[Vi]

do you think illumina has a case to asnwer?? or is it just me?

The case on Illumina, as far as I can remember, had to do with a delayed claim and claiming Nim Lasher. This is basically WIFOM, as the rationale for delaying the claim was that a metal wouldn't want to fullclaim immediately. Which is rather understandable... if you believe it.
The rest of the commentary on Illumina has led to a slightly pro-Town result based on wanting to question the random seruming. The hop onto the SSK wagon was kinda neutral IMO; it could go either way. Probably the most outstanding point was the recent hammer, which I would like a decent investigation into (read: not a witch hunt).

So no, I don't think the case on Illumina is that good once you take away the claim. Of course, if I've forgotten something (I'm certainly not doing a reread now) or if Porkens has anything better, you can check that out. But then my opinion on Porkens is turning back to what it was before SSK was strung up.

[Vi]

We *have* lynched Vi now haven't we?

I've had the majority of the Town in an angry mob against me for a week, five or six votes where four are necessary, two memoir posts, and about half a day to rot; and I'm still not dead.
I love my meta.

Vi- the other point against Illumina is that he is "Town-aligned"

That's probably the most incriminating for me.

Realistically speaking, is that a larger concern than the metal claim?

my tinfoil hat is screaming at me about CF and Ort still.

ATTENTION DUELISTS!

My hat is suspicious of you!

(...sorry, couldn't resist)

[Vi]

Well this was unexpected. Perhaps Illumina should be the MVP, though, since thanks to the quickmislynch D3 the game completely flipped to Town's favor N3. (And what do you mean my existence in this game could/should have been avoided? Thanks mucho <_< )

I'm not really sure what my worth to this game was, other than to press it out until there really were no options other than the three lurkers for scum. :v

[Vi]

Don't get me wrong, it was a neat experience. I wasn't kidding about being my lynch record; fighting for my life was fun. And there aren't

m

any hard feelings; constructive bickering is how things get done

Oh also, pre-in for Mind Screw Gaiden.

[Vi]

I'll admit, I wasn't helpful in this game. I suppose my best play was seruming Vi, but even that...well, the town still won, regardless of useless my play was. At least you guys didn't lynch me! 8D

I was surprised you chose me, after my defense job of SSK...

[Vi]

Claiming Blinkmoth Nexus probably killed all of your chances for not attracting unwanted attention

[Vi]

That the Town isn't dim enough to lynch a claimed and mostly-proven Serum Giver?

[Vi]

Town winning this the way it did will make me laugh for a while.

Some of the things you said D1 made me laugh for a while. (Well, after the initial read where I was like "I have to replace into

this?

".)

@Nati: I'll play. That sounds like the kind of setup I'd run when I become eligible, so I'm interested in seeing how they work from the players' side.

[Vi]

I'm pretty sure that honor should go to Vi...

The

iron

y is noted

Maybe a Cassandra Award...

[Vi]

The deadlines actually felt very close, which in turn made the somewhat dodgy extensions rather welcome. Consider doing a Deadline Extension Review at one week, deciding whether you will do another review in four days or if you'll move to Night in four days.

I personally think that vote counts are best done only as often as needed, although to a degree that requires you to hover around the computer. If all else fails, one of the players should be willing to do a count though, so I don't really have a complaint here.

Last, I wasn't fond of "locking in" majorities for the serum and the synth. Although Illumina didn't mind, I think.

[Vi]

Last, I wasn't fond of "locking in" majorities for the serum and the synth

qft

I did it for Illumina's sake

[Vi]

time/vi was too obvious to kill, rather keep that doubt around

Didt want to go with ort, serumed player too obvious to kill

"too obvious to kill"?