Mini 694 - Office Supplies Mafia [Game Over]

[Moratorium]

raider8169

crywolf20084

vote: pacman281292

For winning the "who has more digits at the end of his username" game.

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can't you edit posts, sensfan? edit the top post and stick the votecount in there if you want to have it at the top of the page.

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I actually don't have a preference either way, but the "The crywolf-stole-the-top-of-the-page" header to his post seemed to indicate that he wanted the top of the page for vote counts.

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Moratorium: sometimes asking questions about things other than what we are here for can look as a way to divert attention. Maybe you did really wonder why SensFan didn't edit the post above but, really, it's more or less obvious a vote count should be in its own post, and from my (limited I must confess) experience, vote counts do go in a separate post by the mod. It is somewhat rude to invade other posts.

Modedit votecounts at the top of each page are common practice on this site.

[Moratorium]

Unvote

Random stage over.

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The transition from random stage to realvote stage was very strange in this game, almost forced.

GC, calm down. Crywolf wasn't the only one who thought you were breaking out the thesaurus and busting out the great american novel a bit too much. If we have to wade through WALLOFTEXT you dilute your own message. Your "my reasoning" summary at the end of post 112 was very helpful to me.

1. He's a liar (and we know what we should do with them). He has mis-characterized a previous voting context and he has mis-characterized my voting pattern to make his case more substantial. The fact that these mis-characterizations are lies puts a pretty big hole in his case.
2. He bases his opinions off of horrible reasoning. Like, anti-town reasoning. He has claimed that if you OMGUS vote, you aren't town - even though there is an overwhelming abundance of previous games where OMGUS votes were used by townsfolk. He has claimed that town players don't revote, and this is the first day we're talking about - a day when absolutely no information is given to the townspeople and a varied of votes will undoubtedly be necessary as social interactions and arguments evolve. The only people certain enough of their votes on a day start day one that they don't need to change them are scumbags.
3. He doesn't fully address points made against him, and shifts his arguments when necessary to save face.
4. He expects me (and presumably everyone else) to already know the setup of the game - or, at least how many scum there are. Who would know that outside of mafia? Nobody. Who other than a mafia member would make the mistake of assuming other players know anything about the game setup re: the size of the mafia? But then, to go one step further and then suggest that we should limit our criticism of our fellow players to a certain arbitrary number is to limit the town's potential for finding scum. If I find that player X, Y and Z are acting scummy, but later on player B does something incredibly scummish, am I supposed to just sit on my hands because player Y, who was a townie, decided to do something stupid and scummish earlier in the game? It's absurd.

#1 you push LAL, assuming we must agree with what you called mis-representations
#2 OMGUS isn't an "upgrade" vote to random votes, it's a scumtell.
#3 Considering the bibles you write, everyone must seem this way to you, no?

It's all just.. meh. Periphary. Tangential casebuilding. I see what you are doing, I see that you are trying to put something together, but all that stuff isn't very convincing.

#4 Now this is a point I generally tend to agree with in games. Scum tend to discuss setup and scumslips are often setup related. Town tends to focus on discussing accusations and votes and actual gameplay.

Vote: charter

I'm going to go ahead with this vote because it is the best one proposed so far, and deserves the pressure required to elicit a defense. At the very least I think we can get a lot of good information out of this discussion.

Preview Ninja Edit: I agree with qwints to some degree, my very first reaction to this "argument" was that this was either 2 townies arguing in circles, or 2 scum trying to distance themselves from each other. I am, however, sticking with my vote until I hear more.

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I said why, I wanted to see a defense.

What I'd like to see from you is a "My reasoning" summary on your case on GC.

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I'm guessing extra-life means he will come back at some point... it says he was "removed from the office" on night 1, not actually killed.

Anyways, to more pressing matters: I'm claiming. I'm the Desk. My win condition is pro-town (it doesn't specifically say that, but I don't want to quote my PM either, so I'm paraphrasing).

I don't see how a Desk is an "office supply", but it's not my game, so whatever.

The reason I'm claiming is because I have a relatively minor special power as the Desk that I think would be beneficial to just get out there and let everyone know about, because I don't find it all that useful as a "secret ability", and as people die, the result of my power can be deduced anyway.

During Night 1, five players sent targetted actions to the mod.

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Also...

This note is not something the scum is leaving to confuse you, because I see it doing so. I can only write so much so I will keep it short. Charter had what was coming for him, and I guess he was the best choice for us to lynch. Good luck in the coming day.

a) we didn't lynch Charter, he was modkilled.
b) This note served no purpose whatsoever.

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Re-reading Day 2, because my vague first impression of my first read-through of Day 2 has been "Office Supplies Mafia: Craplogic Innuendo Permanent Random Phase is Go".

Surely I must be wrong about that.

SensFan: Your avatar makes me homesick.

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Would anyone like to speculate on the nature or purpose of the "note" left in post 157? Does anyone see any breadcrumming there?

Actually, of significantly more interest, would anyone like to claim that they left this note as part of their role? And what we're supposed to do with it?

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This game is quickly devolving for town. Too many players making snap judgements, and now everyone looks suspicious. I've re-read Day 2, and the only case that has truly been pursued (salem_pc) is weak (OMGUS) and feels scum driven. I'd like to see that

votecount

, but right now I'm more suspicious of anyone joining the salem bandwagon than anyone else at the moment.

Also, I feel that there's a terribly small amount of public information or concensus so far in this game, and that if we lynch anytime soon it would be on a whim. I would like to see more posts like #216, evaluating the group in general, and I'll probably put something similar together here shortly. If we rush to lynch, we're dead. If everyone puts up their opinions of everyone, we'll probably spark a good useful discussion.

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i asked all the players in the game some questions and besides porkens and somewhat you.. nobody answered them.

Alright, let's see what you are talking about...

@All the others: What are your top 2-3 suspects? Why?

Yeah, I answered this. Feel free to actually read my posts in the future.

I've re-read Day 2, and the only case that has truly been pursued (salem_pc) is weak (OMGUS) and feels scum driven. I'd like to see that votecount, but right now I'm more suspicious of anyone joining the salem bandwagon than anyone else at the moment.

Please remove me from your distribution list, I no longer wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Moratorium]

There is a second pairing that I noticed in my reread and it was the Pacman and Moratorium pairing, they tended to drop suspicion for near arbitrary reasons, and

tended to vote in a block.

Looked this up since it came as a surprise, but it appears to just be made up bullshit.

Moratorium Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:51 pm -> voted pacman281292
Moratorium Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:03 am -> Unvoted
Moratorium Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:37 pm -> voted charter

pacman281292 Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:08 pm -> voted charter, unvoted, voted crywolf20084, all in same post.
pacman281292 Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:15 pm -> unvoted, voted stef
pacman281292 Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:05 pm -> unvoted
pacman281292 Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:00 pm -> "Heavy FoS: qwints"

Please elaborate on "tended to vote in a block".

Then please elaborate on...

Both of these two also had strong connections to charter, without strongly doing anything. Porkens and charter were quite obviously distancing.

...not because I don't believe it could be possible, but because obviously your stated opinions aren't to be believed without stated empirical evidence.

If you refuse to show up to answer my questions, I will bandwagon you come heck or high water. If you refuse to answer my questions to my satisfaction, I will bandwagon you come heck or high water.

I'm sorry, was this supposed to come off as impressive and threatening? Were you aiming for "Fired-up football coach"? I had the same reaction reading it as I would to a small basket of kittens.

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In 115, qwints votes for charter following some WIFOM in charter's favour. In 124, Porkens gives a barely analysis of the game, rather than some meaningful commentary on the GC-charter battle. In 125, Porkens votes qwints for 115. Still nothing in the way of comment on the charter-GC. 127, qwints basically says sorry. 128, Porkens drops it way too easily. 132, qwints pats himself on the back. 133, Porkens pats him on the back also. Then he pressure votes, still nothing on charter-GC. 142, qwints does a useless pressure FoS. 153, qwints asks charter if he's lied. 154, charter says no. 155, charter is dead. On a qwints note: he follows dead town. 169, qwints complains about a return FoS. (Why do people even use FoS?) 184, qwints votes salem because he made "unhelpful comments" this actually means that he voted him for telling him what gut is, and telling him he's already answered the accusations. This is quite clearly stupid. 191, qwints says he's scum for being defensive. What's a better response to accusation qwints? 200, qwints outlines his case against salem being that he is non responsive. That is not necessarily scum behaviour. It is non-responsive behaviour. If you want to lynch for that, do, but don't pretend that it's a scumtell. 204, qwints slips. 216, Porkens outlines why the case is generally pathetic, and why every player has done it in this game, but still is in support of salempc lynch, explanation Porkens? 217, Porkens makes a townlist, Porkens knows that this is scummy. 220, qwints is a broken record. 221, Porkens does some soft-core distancing. 224, Porkens reasons why he would have killed GC. (RED FLAG) 227, qwints defends his inactivity (lolwhut?). 242, qwints admits that his case fails with a flake. 245, awesomeness arrives.

</walloftext> I'll be surprised if half the players actually read through this post of yours and look at the corresponding posts you've mentioned here, because formatting lolwut.

That said, I did go through it, and I'm reading the thesis of Gurgi's case as "I'm seeing a reinforced, supportive association between the players who attacked salem_pc and the previously lynched mafia", with examples. My original suspicions were to look at people who jumped on the salem_pc bandwagon (more so than the one who initiated it, in fact), because it was just a weak case. I found this post analysis supportive of my suspicions.

No votes until I see some responses to what Gurgi has most recently put out there. Except for his apparent man-crush on ZONEACE, that is.

[Moratorium]

vote: Porkens

Nothing has been said that has helped me understand the Day 1 voting behavior.

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I feel that the wagon on salem_pc has been, and I'll quote myself as you indicate that I haven't said anything about this:

...weak (OMGUS) and feels scum driven. I'd like to see that votecount, but right now I'm more suspicious of anyone joining the salem bandwagon than anyone else at the moment.

In this particular case, you, raider, are actually the player that voted first. But I'm not voting for you because it is plausible (and as it happens, my belief) that you are just voting for a crappy reason that you actually believe in. But the players that jumped on behind you (in this case, and here I'll type their names out explicitly for you for the first time since apparently you need your hand held, qwints and Porkens), to me, are doing so because they are taking advantage of your proposition and trying to freeroll into the next day.

[Moratorium]

/stare pacman281292
/stare Porkens

...

Re-read post 279 please.

...

Also, I just PM'd the mod for a one-week extension, because while you're all having a retarded cock-slapping fight, today is deadline and we're about to

No Lynch

. Rules for this game require a simple majority. I get complaints about not posting a lot, but none of YOU ARE PAYING ANY GOD DAMN ATTENTION.

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Unofficial Vote Count

Porkens (3) - Stef, Gurgi, Moratorium
Salempc/Gurgi (2) - qwints, ZONEACE
Moratorium (1) - raider8169
qwints (1) - Porkens

No vote: Nobody I think. Not 100% sure what our actual player list is.

Also, not sure if anyone has noticed, but both Green Crayons and Sudo_Nym are listed as both alive and dead on Page 1. And a few players (Vamparific, salempc) need to be replaced on the alive list.

Also interesting, Porkens, if there was actually a rule in place where you only needed a plurality of votes to lynch at deadline instead of a majority, you would have effectively lynched yourself by unvoting Gurgi and voting qwints, which gave you the lead in votes.

And finally, if it turns out that SensFan actually meant to say "Plurality" instead of "Majority" in the rules, the rules are a mess of confusion.

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After getting all pissed, I went back and re-read the rules a few more times, and I'll be honest, I'm back to not being sure how this works.

Can someone tell me whether this game automatically No Lynches if we don't hammer by deadline, or whether the person with the most votes is lynched if we don't hammer by deadline.

I can't tell based on rules 3, 4 and 5 and the wording of it.

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Porkens, did you just not want to play anymore?

You put up zero defense in the end and just urged people to vote.

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I have several questions and observations about this game.

1) Why are all the Mafia flipping as "

Pissed-Off

"?

2) Porkens flipped as a "

Mafia Joiner

". Do we have a recruiter/cult leader in this game?

Number two! Lucky save for that miscounted hammer. Maybe scum trying to save face. Though I must admit Qwints is a bit more interesting to me, with the eagerness to get to night. Maybe to try to salvage a scummy win?

3) At first I thought these notes were being left by the person who'd been NK'd, but no one was NK'd last night. Then I thought maybe someone's post restricted and can communicate by notes.. Remaining living player post counts:

Crywolf: 28 posts
Lord Gurgi: 17 posts
Moratorium: 21 posts
pacman: 23 posts
qwints: 37 posts
raider: 35 posts
Stef: 43 posts
ZONEACE: 3 posts

Two things about this: ZONEACE replaced Vamparific in this game, who didn't post at all. Also, ZONEACE's post history shows he's been plenty active posting in other threads. Uninterested player, or post restriction? (This is, at best, just an attempt at pattern recognition. And a guess.)

Sudo_Nym, Paper (pro-Town Extra-Life), was removed from the office Night 1

Sudo_Nym, Paper (pro-Town Extra-Life), Killed Night 1

4) I had thought "removed from the office" was significant for Sudo_Nym's "Extra-Life" role, but then later noticed that he just shows up as "Killed" on the Page 1 count. Maybe he's the one leaving notes?

5) My special ability revealed that there were 4 targetted actions last night. So either mafia decided not to NK anyone (lolwut), or someone decided not to use their ability (maybe we have some one-shot roles?)

6) How many mafia are left in this game? I think either 1, or possibly 2 if we have a recruiter.

7)

vote: qwints

, continuing on what I expressed in post 279.

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So, um i can say with pretty high certainty that IF there was a mafia kill attempt last night, that Qwints didn't make it.

Unvote

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On a completely unrelated and possibly suicidal note, the fact that the mafia members keep coming up as "pissed off" is causing me to worry, about myself. With revealing anything about my "character" or any info about my role (at least trying to) here goes. Suffice it to say I am a generally unused and forgotten office supply which is apparently something that makes me VERY unhappy. I know this may sound weird, but are their roles that are mafia, but don't know it? having said that, I'm going to suggest, that if we don't find the last mafiaoso today, that tomorrow it may be a good idea to kill me. I don't see myself as having that useful of a role so IDK, this may be the best move.

Well I can't help but notice that Porkens went from claiming a town role after he had hammered to flipping scum with this wierd "Pissed-Off Mafia Joiner" rolename. Shortly after making the claim, Gurgi made the comment that he must be scum because he wasn't posting anymore while we waited in Twilight. I don't really get that, why would someone lie about a townclaim after they've been hammered, is there some sort of well-known Twilight Gambit that I'm not aware of? Hell, even his original claim (a one-shot doctor) was pretty damned believable.

Pissed-Off Mafia Joiner

sure the hell sounds like a Judas to me.

charter was a "

Pissed-Off Mafia Editor

", anyone have any theories on that one?

Is anyone else "

Pissed-Off

"? If we have town roles that are also Pissed-off, could it be that mafia is only recruiting pissed-off people, and that we shouldn't be revealing who is pissed-off? (This sentence of subjective conjecture was brought to you by Carl's Jr. Carl's Jr. Fuck you, I'm eating.)

I'll respect ZONEACE's apparent claim at an informational role of some sort long enough to hear people out on this one.

There is one thing I want to know about the set up: Would the mafia's kill stop the sk's kill from going through? I had assumed not.

Action order resolution for this game isn't posted anywhere, to my knowledge. I am curious why this, in particular, is "one thing you want to know".

{...voting for Judas after being goaded into it...}

I smirked when I saw that happen, if you didn't vote in post 332, and had to be reminded of it, you give the impression that you didn't really believe what you were saying.

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Lord Gurgi, are you pissed off?

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Just re-read the thread because the Venn diagram for this game is starting to hypnotize me.

Two big points that I'd like to make based on the re-read.

1) Green Crayons was stapled to death on Night 1.

Stapled.

By a

Stapler

.

Porkens flipped Stapler.

So that means he is the one that put the NK order in for Green Crayons. Which means his one-shot doctor claim was just made-up garbage. Still not sure what the purpose of making that claim was though, the only thing I can think of was him trying to assist someone in bussing him harder? Was only one person making any attempt to call him out on the pro-town roleclaim. (hint: I'm voting for him in this post)

2) Hooray for re-reading threads.

OMGUS!
Unvote Vote pacman

You are not making any sense. Are you even useful in this office?

None of us are useful, that's why we are

pissed off

Can you be one of them?

Aren't we all supposed to be pissed off?

Gurgi replaces salem_pc, effective immediately.

Fact: All Mafia that have flipped so far have "Pissed-Off" in their rolename.
Fact: Salem_PC/Lord Gurgi has stated that he is "Pissed-Off".

vote: Lord Gurgi

Unless other people start claiming "Pissed-off" in their rolename (and NOT just some vague general indication of anger in their flavour), I think this game is pretty much done.

[Moratorium]

Adding to the pile somewhat:

From

The 5 things I hate most when playing mafia are...

in Mafia Discussion.

1. Demanding a case from someone and then not reading it.
2. Complaining about the mod, especially in thread.

3. People who flake when they have already screwed themselves and their replacee over.

4. Being lynched for finding the scum, a.k.a. "He's too good, he must be mafia."
5. People who get worked up and make impulsive decisions that are either wrong, or for the wrong reasons.

I read threads.

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So from my role PM:

I guess this is like that time in middle school when you were picked to play lead in the play, but never bothered to ask when rehearsals were.

I read that and went ".......what? why do i have random sentences in my PM?"

Anyways, I was actually starting to do a big response etc and noticed Zoneace's vote in the preview before I posted.. then Yaw's posts.. everything just wrapped up nice and suddenly.

The fact that Charter and Green Crayons, a scum and a SK, ended up spending so much energy going at each other during this game really put a lot of wind in the sails of the pro-town forces. In fact, we town got a lot of breaks.

- Scum modkill
- Anti-town elements suspicious of each other
- Scum NK'ing SK
- Scum's rolename obviously tied to method of killing (Stapler)
- Two good lynches, including the whole pissed-off stuff.

Anti-town didn't catch many breaks this game.

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Thanks to Lord Gurgi for replacing in, we appreciate it.

Thanks to Yaw for stepping in to complete the game as moderator as well.

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Hey, thanks.