Mini 695 - Futurama Mafia - Over

[Kmd4390]

Hey. Glad to see some people who I've played with before, and some from Family Guy! Too bad I didn't get a chance to play with Xtoxm, but I guess he was SK, so good job on killing him. Haven't really read much of anything yet, but I'll have some content tomorrow. Just checking in to show that I'm here. I look forward to playing with some people I've seen before and the ones I haven't played with too. For those who don't know me, I'm usually a fairly active player. Like I said, content tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

Ok reading up and typing out things as I notice them. (Still trying to figure out the best catch-up method when I replace):

Dukes, the no lynch thing was bad. Never no lynch on Day 1. Never. I also don't see the reason to hint at your role right out of the gate. What did you mean by saying that your vote on xtoxm "seemed safe?" Do you mean safe as in staying away from suspicion, therefore staying alive? As in being on the right wagon? Clarify please. Why the vanilla claim on Day 1?!? Honestly, reading your play, it looks like you are more concerned with staying alive than winning. You need to get your ideas out so that if you die, we can see if you were on to anything.

Zorblag, the systematic joke vote thing was weird. I've never seen that before. You mention jester a couple of times. Usually on mafiascum, if there is a jester, it is open setup and we know going in that there is a jester in the game.

Porochaz, (good to see you in a non-newbie game) I'm on page 2, and not sure how you got Xtoxm as a SK already. I'm sure I'll see that as I read more though. The role Xtoxm mentioned does exist, and knowing Farside's modding, I wouldn't be shocked to see it here. You said that during the night, people should look for likeliness of the daycop role. Ok, look at how many times you have seem a Voteless Random JOAT. Farside used that role in Family Guy. Point is, in a game that Farside is modding, Anything is possible

Pacman seemed overdefensive to Porochaz saying his original joke post made no sense. His posting in the first few pages was about that and not Xtoxm vs. Porochaz or any other scumhunting.

Llama, you seemed very quick to believe Porochaz. Not quite sure what to take from that, but it's worth noting. In Family Guy, you were all over what you thought was a Cleveland claim. Why are you not jumping all over Dukes for robot breadcrumbs and then admitting to "hinting", and even the "evil twin" comment.

Wolf, you jumped on Xtoxm's wagon quickly. Not that it's bad to jump on a claimed SK, but Mafia wants SK dead more than anyone else. Also, you come out on Day 2 and backpedal on your stance on Porochaz. At the end of the post, you look more like you are playing both sides on Porochaz.

Jahudo, the first few lines of 196 are pretty much what I was thinking just before I read it. Wolf and Pacman need to be looked at. Dukes seems to be getting used to playing on mafiascum more than he seems like scum.

Pacman- Every time he posts, it's quick comments that look more like spectating than playing. It makes you look active because you are posting, but there isn't much content or analysis. The post where you give your read on everyone is one that I don't like. You say that you have nothing for half of the players in the game. Why include them if that's all you have to say? Looks like you are trying to look active still.

Kloud, I read your Dukes vote as going after an easy target. He makes some posts after a couple of votes, and you come in, show a couple of slightly scummy things, and lay down a vote. It looks like an "ok, people are right. Here's scum. Vote. Ok bye." kind of post.

[Kmd4390]

Drunken Piper, looking back, you are the only one who I didn't say anything about. You looked like you thought you caught scum in GW, and seemed certain. I assume that your suspicion is gone now that he has been replaced. It's weird reading your posts. Maybe it's the italics or the tone. I don't know. It's just weird.

Anyway, overall:

If I had to guess at the scum right now, I'd say Pacman, Wolf, and Kloud in that order.

Dukes looks more new to mafiascum than anything, but it doesn't mean he can't be scum. His play has been very different from what i am used to seeing.

Vote Pacman

[Kmd4390]

Dukes, no, if you are town, you win if the town wins. Regardless of staying alive.

JOAT is Jack Of All Trades. A standard JOAT gets an investigation, a protection, a role block, and a kill. (Someone tell me if I got those right or not.) The JOAT in Family Guy Mafia was far from a standard JOAT. I'm having a hard time trying to remember what he got specifically, but I know I remember he jailed someone one night ,and another night gave someone a double vote which was busdriven by a device created by the inventor. Point is, with Farside as our Mod, expect the unexpected.

[Kmd4390]

Kloud, I was talking Day 2 where you DID put the 3rd vote on an easy target. I see now that you were suspicious of him on Day 1. Still, Dukes looks more like scumbait than scum right now.

It looks like Dukes was under the impression he had to stay alive in order to win. Now that I have clarified that for him, I expect more scumhunting and less worrying so much about looking good.

I was about to say that your vote wasn't as much wagoning as I thought because of the Day 1 suspcions, but:

I would also like to address this underlined section. As phrased, it implies that I simply dropped a vote based off the cases made by others. This, as can be clearly seen above, is not the case in the slightest sense.

My opinions have been, in most senses, dependent of opinions and reasoning provided by other players

, so to insinuate that my train of thought was "Okay, people are right in suspecting him, so I will vote for him," is utterly fallacious.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, I figured that was a typo. Just thought I'd make sure though.

[Kmd4390]

Dukes, discussion is good for the town. That is generally accepted here.

What is uncomfortable about Kloud and myself?

[Kmd4390]

The only people I can see who have crumbed are myself and Wolf.

mm maybe you... but wolf? where?!

Breadcrumbs are hidden for a reason.

KMD -- there's a lot of negativity here, and because you just arrived, I can't tell if it's sorting things out or finding a scum or what's going on. I only mean there's a disturbance in the force, but I can't tell what sort. So while discussion is good, I haven't formulated my thoughts yet, so half-bakery is bad.

It's never bad to lay out your exact thoughts as town. Can you clarify what you mean by negativity please?

[Kmd4390]

Okay, it's like this: you come in guns blazing and say you think Kloud's behavior is suspicious. He fires back with a long diatribe otherwise, but it's based on my behavior, so I understand why he feels he was justified. Then you say "Wait! You said x and that's not good!" Then he says "That's not what I meant." Then... yeah, at this point it sounds more like two townies getting on the same page rather than a successful scum-find, but for a while I was trying to decide whose wine to drink.

Ok, take out the exaggerations and you've got it.

Try it like this:

Okay, it's like this: you come in

guns blazing

and say you think Kloud's behavior is suspicious. He

fires back with a long diatribe

[says] otherwise, but it's based on my behavior, so I understand why he feels he was justified. Then you say "Wait! You said x and that's not good!" Then he says "That's not what I meant."

Then... yeah, at this point it sounds more like two townies getting on the same page rather than a successful scum-find, but for a while I was trying to decide whose wine to drink.

[Then you see the typo]

I think most of what you are seeing is non-issue. I first said that Kloud was going after an easy target in you. He shows that he

was

in fact suspicious of you from day 1. My point stands though, that he put the 3rd vote on an easy target on Day 2. The Day 1 suspicion does somewhat lessen that which is why he is only my 3rd suspect right now.

[Kmd4390]

Can we get a vote count?

[Kmd4390]

I didn't pay many attention to Poro/Xtoxm because that got me really insane...

It was the major issue in the game at that point. There was a claimed SK and accusations of a mafia day cop. You could have given thoughts on that.

[Kmd4390]

I guess that's worth pointing out in case at some point llama were to flip scum. If he does, we can remember this if Dukes is still alive at that point. I don't think it's a big deal right now though.

[Kmd4390]

Or maybe even if Dukes were to flip scum.

[Kmd4390]

Anyone not voting: Who do you find most suspicious and why aren't you voting them?

[Kmd4390]

Anyone not voting: Who do you find most suspicious and why aren't you voting them?

I find Dukes most suspicious but I am not ready to put him to L-2 because we're not close to the deadline and there are several people I have weak or neutral reads on: you, wolf, and poro.

Fair enough.

[Kmd4390]

Pacman, show us how the case on you is weak if you think it is.

[Kmd4390]

Any response to the other people who are voting you?

[Kmd4390]

Wolf/DP, What are your thoughts on Pacman/Dukes?

[Kmd4390]

Dukes, that's a really weak defense and not a lot of suspicions. It looks more like an attempt to survive than honest thoughts.

[Kmd4390]

Vote Pacman

My opinion hasn't changed since Day 2.

[Kmd4390]

DP, same as yesterday combined with Llama being NK'd.

[Kmd4390]

unvote

While character doesn't say anything about alignment, the claim looks ok. Jahudo has seemed pretty protown. I need to do a serious re-read now. I think I'll look at the Dukes wagon because you can usually find a scum or 2 by looking at a Day 1 town lynch.

[Kmd4390]

Poro and KMD, you two were supposedly pretty sure he was scum, why the change of heart if both of you believe that a role name does not reflect alignment?

Yes, Pacman was my number one suspect. But I'm not prepared to lynch a claimed hider without some discussion first. Even if Pac is scum, there are still 1 or 2 more to catch. If he is really a hider, he can clear some townies for us.

Kloud, did Farside give fakeclaims in the mini Family Guy game?

@Group but particularly kmd, poro and DP: what do you feel about this suggestion and doing it either today or tomorrow?:

Does anyone else think we should decide a way to popcorn roles throughout today, given that if there might be 3 scum (I doubt it though) we would need to get one of them today or at night.

I do not think it will or should be the main motivating factor to clear or vote someone, but it may help find inconsistencies in how we've been playing so far and create some speculation which I give an example of below.

Well, if we think there are 3 mafia in a game with a SK, it makes sense. If we think there are 2 mafia, we should wait until tomorrow. Actually, the information couldn't hurt, right? I mean, maybe the scum get a better idea who to kill, but if we have several power roles like Family Guy had, it gives us several claimed power roles which may actually be provable, and the scum can't kill us all in one night. It might be an ok idea, but I'd like to hear from everyone before we start anything like this.

So, after reading up, I keep seeing "we can do it if the group agrees". I think I'm going to come out and say, I'd support a massclaim today. If we have 3 scum still alive, I don't want to mislynch and find out we lost because we underestimated the Mod. I have a feeling that not only could Farside balance a game with 3 scum and a SK, but that she would pride herself in doing it, and do it just to show that she can. And even if there are only 2 mafia, what's the worst that happens? When the uninformed majority becomes informed more and more, a gap closes. If the scum have fakeclaims, they will just use them as they are about to be lynched, so it makes no difference. So basically, I propose that we do the dice popcorn claim that (was it DP?) suggested.

[Kmd4390]

Prodding me? Why? I'm here.

[Kmd4390]

Weird. Didn't notice that. I've been online and reading the thread every day.

Well anyway, my opinions haven't changed since Tuesday. Still ok with a massclaim.

[Kmd4390]

Kmd4390: I see a case for pacman281292 (though one a bit light on details) and an argument for a massclaim today. I don't particularly think that he's been lurking but at the same time looking back I see that I'm not particularly sure what he's thinking of anyone past pacman281292. Are there people that you think have been scummy? If we don't end up massclaiming today what would you like to see next?

My top choices would be Kloud, Porochaz, and DP,. I don't have much of a case on any of them though.

I am fine either way with a massclaim, i can wait till tomorrow

(if there is one)

or i can go now.

See, this is what I'm worried about. I don't want to see us rush into a lynch, and find out we were in LYLO and didn't know it. That's why I'm hesitant to vote anyone right now.

I am being careful today though only because of something that happened last night, and it might concern the vote count but i am not sure. I can explain more if ya'll want, and i feel i should explain but i will see what everyone says.

Well, since you brought it up, I'd elaborate. Unless it's something that you feel would hurt the town.


Jahudo, you pros seem to out weigh your cons on the massclaim. And I like the idea of being able to plan the night during the day.


Wolf, I thought I made my case on Pacman pretty clear in Day 1. The unvote was not based on his character, it was based on his hider claim. I'd rather not go into detail on that though.

[Kmd4390]

Well if you read back, you will see that I was suspicious of Kloud as soon as I replaced in. Porochaz, I feel isn't getting enough attention. People seem to have assumed that he isn't a mafia day cop. That may be true. That doesn't make him auto town though.

[Kmd4390]

I feel it would be beneficial for the group if everyone posted their opinions on who they find to be scummy (or likely pro-town), in addition to reasoning for their statements, as it has been generating, or appears to now be sparking, discussion in which everyone will be able to take an active part in participating.

pro town:

Jahudo: Seems to be thinking logically. I found myself agreeing with a lot of what Jahudo said on Day 2. Also, if Pacman is a hider, Jahudo is town.

Pacman: Play isn't exactly pro town, but the hider claim makes me think he is town.

Wolf: He's posting, but seems to be in the background most of the time.

Neutral:

Zorblag: I keep going back and forth on him in my head. His back and forth with Kloud is interesting.

Anti Town:

DP: It might mostly be his annoying posting style. He hammered Dukes, but I'm not so sure it was a scum hammer. I don't think I'd vote him now, but I'm definitely watching him.

Porochaz: If he isn't a mafia day cop, it doesn't mean he isn't scum. He is flying under the radar a little.

Kloud: Like I said before, he seemed to be after an easy target with Dukes. He's also pretty much latched on to Zorblag for today. He has given thoughts on other players though, so he isn't exactly tunneling. Something about his play just seems similar to Family Guy (the mini) where he was scum.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, and...

VOTE MASSCLAIM TODAY

Like I said before, I don't want to not massclaim, lynch town, and find out that there

were

in fact 3 scum, and we lost the game. Also, if there are only 2 scum, we can plan our night, and possibly confirm some claims in preparation for the real LYLO.

[Kmd4390]

How so sure?

[Kmd4390]

Because Im playing odds. Its so much more likely that its 2 scum/1 SK than 3 scum/1 SK that Id be willing to bet on it. Massclaim when noone is sure is stupid. Massclaiming when its not needed is stupid. Massclaiming when its extremely unlikely were in LYLO is, once again, stupid. Its not an option, it shouldnt be considered, why it is, is beyond me.

You never know, especially with Farside as our mod.

[Kmd4390]

What are the odds of an inventor inventing a device called "Portable Force field Generating Device", and it being a bus driving device that switches a random JOAT's action of making someone a double voter to a different player who is on 3 different lynching wagons without anyone ever picking up on the double vote despite noticing that all 3 lynches were 1 vote less than the required amount of votes for a lynch?

1)Not very high.
2)Is that a run on sentence?
3)Damn, that was fun to watch after I used the device and died.

[Kmd4390]

I'm saying that in Farside's games, odds don't mean shit.

[Kmd4390]

But you aren't getting it! If we assume that Farside wouldn't put 3 scum in a game, THAT is outguessing the mod. I'm saying we need to look at either possibility and decide what to do.

So, if we have 2 scum left. Worst that happens from a massclaim? We out power roles. The scum have their choice which one to go after. Best thing from massclaim? We can plan our night and we might have a better guess at who the scum are based on claims. Worst from no massclaim? I actually can't think of anything to put here. Best from no massclaim? The scum are still guessing on our roles.

If we have 3 scum left. Worst thing from a massclaim? We out power roles. Assuming we lynch correctly, the scum have their choice which one to go after. Best thing from a massclaim? We get all the information out for LYLO and can plan our night. And we might have a better guess at who the scum are based on claims. Worst from no massclaim? WE COULD LOSE THE GAME BECAUSE POROCHAZ DIDN'T THINK IT COULD BE LYLO. Best from no massclaim? The scum are still guessing on our roles. (only applies with a correct lynch).

The way I see it, massclaiming is the right move.

[Kmd4390]

Porochaz, I can see where it would be hard to balance a game like that, but that doesn't make it impossible.

Zorblag: I keep going back and forth on him in my head. His back and forth with Kloud is interesting.

Can you be more specific? Do you think that kloud is misrepresenting the case? Do you think that Zorblag looks town without the perspective of thinking kloud is scummy?

What I meant is I can kind of see Kloud's points except that I am suspicious of Kloud. If he is misrepresenting, he is doing a good job of it.

Zorblag, I see your point on Porochaz. I'd like to add that if we are in fact in LYLO, the scum would want us to think otherwise (WIFOM, I know, but think about it). That way, we aren't as careful about our lynch, and they win while we sit around with our thumbs up our asses.

[Kmd4390]

Also what could benifit me, if I was scum by not having the massclaim.

Scum should be revelling that town want a massclaim, that I will go into once the game is over. Massclaim benifits scum, no massclaim leaves them in the same position as before.

If we are in LYLO, the scum know it. They don't want the town to know it. By saying it's unlikely, they might convince the town that it isn't LYLO. The town runs up a small wagon. Scum jump on. Game over.

[Kmd4390]

Well I was speaking more of the concept of LYLO that comes with a massclaim. If we don't massclaim, we are assuming we are not in LYLO. If we assume we are not in LYLO, some townies may run up a small wagon. If some townies run up a small wagon, and we are in LYLO, the scum will quicklynch for the win.

[Kmd4390]

Vote Farside

Better?

[Kmd4390]

I'd like to hear Kmd4390's response to Jahudo

Did I miss something?

[Kmd4390]

Zorblag: I keep going back and forth on him in my head. His back and forth with Kloud is interesting.

Can you be more specific? Do you think that kloud is misrepresenting the case? Do you think that Zorblag looks town without the perspective of thinking kloud is scummy?

What I meant is I can kind of see Kloud's points except that I am suspicious of Kloud. If he is misrepresenting, he is doing a good job of it.

[Kmd4390]

Couldn't hurt.

[Kmd4390]

Xtoxm is replacing pacman effictive now.

Interesting choice.

[Kmd4390]

Anyone wanna give me a summary or sth?

We had a SK in this game outed by a mafia day cop who is still alive. Get him!

Really though. Dukes was lynched. Pacman was a close second. Pacman looked like he was about to be lynched today. He claimed hider, and got replaced by you. We have been discussing the possibility that we may be in LYLO (that would mean a 3 mafia, 1 SK setup), and the benefits or setbacks to a massclaim today.

Kloud and Zorblag had a bit of a back and forth, but nobody is voting right now.

[Kmd4390]

Wait.

Xtoxm. I have a few questions after some of your recent posts.
1) How so sure that "town has too much power"? We haven't massclaimed yet.
2) How so sure about 3 mafia in this game?
3) Why would we massclaim tomorrow if you think we are in LYLO? (Yes, Porochaz asked this, but I want it answered too.)
4) Why tell us you are suspicious of Wolf, and then say that you have another suspect, but not say who?
5) Llama replacing back in? Did I miss something?

[Kmd4390]

Dead doc, RB, hider.

Ok

Umm, as explained.

Ok

Because I already know who I want to lynch. We can MC if y'all really want.

So would you vote for or against a massclaim right now? We are pretty much split on this issue, so a definitive stance is helpful.

I thought i'd hang on to it for the mo. I can say if you like. Not read the whole thread yet, either.

I'll leave that up to your own judgement.

Am I mistaken in my thinking Llama has replaced GW?

Yeah, I replaced GW. Llama was NK'd as a town RB, and hasn't come back in.

[Kmd4390]

No. There are already too many town power's present for there only to be 2 scum.

See, this is interesting. We've had two players who seem VERY sure on the number of scum, and they are opposite positions. (If you haven't read it yet, Porochaz says there is no way that there are 3 scum because it couldn't be balanced that way.)

[Kmd4390]

Well you seemed to be very strongly against the massclaim to me. You seemed pretty sure that there are 2 mafia in this game. Maybe I misread it, but that's the way it looked.

Xtoxm has come out and done the opposite. He seems very sure that there are 3 mafia.

I just thought both sides seemed relatively sure, so I noted the differences. My apologies if you weren't as sure as I thought.

[Kmd4390]

also,

@whoever is willing to answer

, why did you lynch X x2 the first time? That might be helpful.

I wasn't here for it, but I can answer because I'd have lynched him too. He was a SK. He claimed SK. Yes, he needed to be lynched. It's an anti-town role. Yes, he probably would have worked with the town N1, but if he saw a chance to win the game, he'd have done it.

[Kmd4390]

Kmd4390

• Post 246 looks like he’s not posting as he’s reading and I’m not sure which pages, maybe the first and most recent but not the middle, he has a good grasp on? His opinion of pacman looks insightful.
• Post 415 and 417 gives scum picks but doesn’t explain case, that’s not helpful. Saying poro is a top choice because he hasn’t been scrutinized isn’t a good reason.
• Post 425 still not very full analysis, many of the opinions feel like they’re taken from other players which may be a natural agreement or an attempt to gain concensus on who to limit the suspicion to. Doesn’t explain what poro flying under the radar means and why it’s something to note.
• Lots of posts where he’s asking questions, which is good.

Yeah, I realize I slowed down for a week or two in most of the games I'm in. A lot of RL shit, but that's all been solved, so I'm here and not going anywhere.

I didn't give reasons in that post, but I feel that I have throughout the game.

My analysis post was in response to a request for everyone to post something like that. I just posted my thoughts. What you see is what you get.

Any player flying under the radar is dangerous. If they are scum, they aren't being pressured. Also, the massclaim conversation is a reason to suspect Porochaz. I don't think I've been very clear about that.

[Kmd4390]

Why do you think pacman was unsure about his role's abilities?

PM is very unclear. I sent several PMs to the mod to ask about technicalities etc.

Really? Because Farside's role PMs usually seem pretty clear to me.

Also, in potential LYLO, why are you voting on "a scum feel"? Go back over his posts and see if there is a case there or not.

[Kmd4390]

Why did the thread need to be bumped? The last post was last night.

[Kmd4390]

I've been looking at the pages directly up to this wagon on Xtoxm but I actually don't see anything as scummy opportunistic on the people voting him. Anyone see it a different way?

We have a deadline coming up, so we need discussion. I see no problem with a vote or 2 on a scummy player.

[Kmd4390]

Why would he be bussing if this were LYLO? If he is bussing, I'd think there are only 2 scum left. Either way, that was a quick vote from Animo.

[Kmd4390]

Animo and either Poro/Xtoxm would be my top 2.

[Kmd4390]

Not sure how to defend against that. Right now, your case is: "If I had to vote right now, it would either be for KMD or Ani.....As the game has gone on, I have continued to have a weariness towards KMD.....I really do not have any substantial evidence to provide a case against him...."

[Kmd4390]

Xtoxm's actions today:

Votes Wolf because he remembered thinking he was scum, but couldn't remember why.

Votes DP over a scum feel.

Puts a 3rd vote on me with "I can go for that."

I get the feeling he is scum who doesn't care who is lynched as long as it's town. If he's scum, I expect that Anim (replaced Wolf) and DP are probably town.

So I think Xtoxm is scum. I think his hurry to try to lynch someone is an indication that there probably are 3 scum. (if he is scum.)

So eliminating Anim, DP, and myself...

I think 2 of Zorblag, Jahudo, Poro, Kloud are scum if Xtoxm is scum.

Vote Xtoxm

Poro is my second choice. Probably Zorblag or Kloud after that.

[Kmd4390]

If you are town, you may have just handed the game to scum...

[Kmd4390]

Daykill Porochaz

I asked to be able to do this even if the game was over. Guess I got denied. Oh well.

Kloud, I second the question. Why not out me?

Zorblag and DP, pleasure being scum with you.

Town, I can't believe the massclaim in LYLO got shot down. It would have been the right move. Needless to say, I was ready for it.

Farside, thanks for yet another great game.

[Kmd4390]

Jahudo's vote was all we needed. All 3 scum were on the wagon and Xtoxm self-hammered.

Sig and Wiki updated. Can't wait for Drawn Together.

[Kmd4390]

Haha. Fun times.

[Kmd4390]

Usually, when I get a guilty, I try to push the lynch as hard as possible (like I did with Rock in Family Guy), and if that doesn't work, I'll claim.