Mini 694 - Office Supplies Mafia [Game Over]

[Porkens]

IGMEOY

Help me out here...?

Vote: pacman123456

for voting for crywolf because I wanted to vote for crywolf because he voted for Raider who I really wanted to vote for in the first place.

[Porkens]

Honestly, though, I'm really not impressed by Charter's double vote with no explanation on green crayons.

[Porkens]

unvote

vote: salempc

for pointing out lurker fest instead of contributing.

[Porkens]

hehe yeah it was just a copy/past.

unvote

vote: Green Crayons

I wasn't following any reasoning at all GC, I was just putting a silly vote on someone with a copy-past of the post DIRECTLY above me.

[Porkens]

Random stage over?

unvote

I think this is getting us nowhere and that Stef is a moron, and until he starts to have some sense, I'm going to just ignore him.

Yeah, unfortunately, the town isn't afforded such luxuries.

vote: crywolf20084

[Porkens]

How's this for a WALLOFTEXT?

These are the things which have stood out to me so far:

Page 1 (mostly silliness but a little more):

a) The second random vote (from Charter) was a duplicate vote. -I guess I find it odd to put 2 votes on someone right from the get go. Also, Isaid so at the time; even if it's a random vote; the custom is to give some silly explanation for it. Is this a scum-tell? Not necessarily. It's just wierd.
b) Green Crayons agrees with me and takes it a step further with a vote. -We were still clearly in the random voting stage, so this seems pretty pre-mature, and slightly OMGUS, to me.
c) Raider's asks GC if b) was a "real vote." -I think that's a fair question.

Page 2 (Wait...is this still random stage?):

a) Green Crayons claims that his vote on charter was OMGUS-(right?)
b) Qwints FOS's salempc for not contributing whilst asking for contributions -(maybe salempc was trying to 'raise a flag' himself?)
c) I, personally, was still in silly mode so I voted on Qwints' FOS.
d) Charter says he's happy with his vote on GC. Happy with an off-the-bat random vote? Here's where things start to feel iffy for me. I also don't know Charter's reasoning for saying he'd be fine with a wagon on me -(although I suspect it's just chuckling from a previous game...?)
e) Charter then adds a third to his list of people he'd like to see pressured. -Anyone NOT on that list, charter?
f) Green Crayons "gets the ball rolling" with a vote on me, I assume to fulfil Charter's "I'd lynch porkens" statement. -Is this an attempt to displace attention or votes?
g) Charter implies that GC is actually scum. -how could you possibly know that?!
h) Salempc noobs around, qwints calls him on it, and salem makes a content post...kinda. -(but as sudo says, it's hard to come up with content on page 2 most of the time)

Page 3 (Enter Sandman...err...Stef):

a) Sudo says he wants more pressure on salem, and votes. -this seems contradictiory to what he already said about there not being much content to talk about.
b) Raider says he doesn't want to see salempc's wagon go to a lynch. -That's some distancing right there.
c) Pacman says that things seem confusing, and he's not sure what to think or do.
d) Stef spams (argument ~might~ be made that this was still random stage).
e) Pacman comes back and immediately votes Stef. So, in C, Pacman sounds like he wants to analyze what is going on, but as soon as there is an easy target (stef) he jumps on it immediatly.
f) Crywolf accuses Stef of being VI.
g) Raider makes a contentless post (are you useful...?).
h) Crywolf again brings up the idea that Stef is VI.

Page 4 (The good time are owvah!!!):

a) Salem makes another useless post. (these have to stop soon, right?)
b) and another (...guess not)
c) Sudo calls Steff a moron and asks if the discussion is leading anywhere...but doesn't offer anything to help lead it anywhere himself.
d) Crywolf /ignores Steff.
e) Stef unvotes, declaires the random stage over.
f) Charter flag-waves his wagon on GC.
g) Moratorium declairs the random stage over (thank you)
h) Crywolf says that lynching the V.I. would be playing into the scum's hands. I think there is a huge difference between "ignoring" someone and "not lynching" them. I'm also suprised that crywolf is so weary of the V.I. day one from actions in the, albeit extended, random phase. I could see this as some kind of round-about way of defending Stef.
i) GC makes the first real, for reals, post. Main Points: I have bad reasoning, my vote wasn't "random" enough, tries to draw a line from raider to charter.
j) Charter presents his "case" on GC, going so far as to call him "obvious scum." My PROBLEM with this "case" is that none of it was brought up by charter before someone asked for it.
k) GC rebutts - hence comes the first real conversation of the game.

Page 5 (???):

a) Salem, again, doesn't have anything to contribute except to say he has nothing to contribute. Top it off with some OMGUS on qwints.
b) Crywolf says he doesn't like bloated posts. Well...he'll probably never read this then: Crywolf; Are you just being beligerant for the sake of it or are you trying to muddle the game intentionally?
c) GC presents a defense against Charter's case.
d) Charter Rebutts as only charter can.
e) GC presents a refined case against charter.
f) I don't like this next post (115) much at all. First of all, qwints injects a TON of WIFOM into the conversation really really unnecessarily. Essentially "charter is too scummy to be scum" doesn't hold a lot of water with me. Then, qwints contradicts himself by voting for Charter after all. This post seems to 'cover all the bases.' In one brief post: "I don't think charter is scum," "I'm voting for Charter."
g) Sudo 'defends(?)' Charter by explaining how to count scum in a 12 person game. -hiding in plain sight?
h) Charter freaks out. (you made it 5 pages this time!)

Okay, so I know that was horrible. Here're my conclusions:

1. The biggest and best aspect of the Charter case, for me, hasn't been mentioned yet; He has never changed his vote. You simply can not expect anyone to believe that you still have confidence in your random, day 1, post 2 vote. You have been "confident" about it since early in page 2, and no matter what else has gone on, you've dragged it along like a beloved dolly.

2. Some people in this game need far more attention.
a) Raider - Has been kind of skimming under the radar (I know he's away till friday), but also has been guilty of some suspected distancing (day 2; b).
b) Salempc - Not a single thing to contribute. Posting but saying nothing. In fact, the only noteworthy item was OMGUS against qwints.
c) Sudo - Even his random vote was unhelpful (for the mod)

But, I'm not voting for any of these right now. My choice is...

[Porkens]

unvote

vote: qwints

for point <Page 5, b>.

Green crayons is definitely getting the better of the argument. I have a tough time, however, believing that scum would be as adamant as charter is being on day 1. Being that active and antagonistic is going to put you under scrutiny - scrutiny that it is possible to avoid. That said, that may be exactly what the scum want me to think. So, it's WIFOM

It's possible that this fight is an act between two scum designed to put one of them beyond reproach. I just want to point out the obvious fact that one being scum wouldn't clear the other one.

Because I think charter's moves have been anti-town, I am going to vote: charter. Charter, why aren't you a liar?

Reasoning

1. Agreeing to Green Crayon's side of the GC/Charter argument while...
2. Simultanously bringing up a WIFOM defence of Charter and...
3. Voting Charter anyway then finally...
4. Asking a question that has no legitimate answer.

[Porkens]

Well, it wasn't clear. I see what you mean now.

unvote

for the time being.

[Porkens]

Wow, that may be the most effective defense I have ever written

Stef, I really don't like the fact that you made a bunch of short, random posts and are now leaving. Obviously real life outweighs forum mafia, but it seems like a cheap trick to artificially boost your post count without producing any content and then not get blamed for lurking. I'll withhold my judgment til your Sunday posts.

salempc, I'd like to hear your analysis of the GC- charter debate. The correct move after being voted for contentless posts is more content, not less posts.

charter, I don't agree that GC was twisting your words. He was certainly using them against you, but the inconsistencies he pointed out were present in your original posts.

Well, after that long slog of re-reading and posting that way-too-long piece. I missinterpreted the post of yours that I cited earlier. But with your objection in mind I read it again, and, although I still don't think it's clear, I see what you were trying to say at the time.

I, too, would like to hear something from salempc. So, salem, give us your thoughts, please.

vote: salempc

[Porkens]

Let's not let this game die, shall we? Salempc was 2nd on my list yesterday, so I'll

vote: Salempc

and ask him to explaine, in more detail, what he found scummy about qwints last post.

[Porkens]

Hi guys, I'm back. I'll do a re-read later tonight and have my votes and questions for you all.

[Porkens]

1. The biggest and best aspect of the Charter case, for me, hasn't been mentioned yet; He has never changed his vote. You simply can not expect anyone to believe that you still have confidence in your random, day 1, post 2 vote. You have been "confident" about it since early in page 2, and no matter what else has gone on, you've dragged it along like a beloved dolly.

2. Some people in this game need far more attention.
a) Raider - Has been kind of skimming under the radar (I know he's away till friday), but also has been guilty of some suspected distancing (day 2; b).
b) Salempc - Not a single thing to contribute. Posting but saying nothing. In fact, the only noteworthy item was OMGUS against qwints.
c) Sudo - Even his random vote was unhelpful (for the mod)

Qwints;

I kind of the like pushing the FOS on Salem_PC in 158. Solid post in 181. Most of the case in 200 could be applied to half of the players in the game. But, I agree with 1 and 4 enough to keep my vote on Salem_PC, Freudian slip in 204?

Raider;

Useless posts, backpedals from his (justified) vote on Salem_PC in 174

Crywolf;

Useless posts, still waiting for that re-read, sniping/trolling in 186

Moratorium;

I tend to believe his claim in 161. I think it’s pretty amazing that we had 5 night actions. I think we can definitely use this to catch some liars later on.

Crazy Note Person;

I’m guessing that whoever this was is dead because of the “good luck in the coming day” line. So my guess is that Psudo may have left it.

Pacman;

I don’t really like 163 because Salem_PC DOES have some scum in him. This is an overreaction. Playing both sides in 172
Salem_PC; OMGUS in 168, poor defense of OMGUS in 176, answering questions directed at other people 182

Raider;

I like the vote in 171, backpedals from it in 174

Zoneface;

jumping on the SPC wagon in 201. I’ll wait to see how SPC flips before I analyze this.

@Porkens: can you explain your actions otherwise? Also, why didn't you comment at all regarding charter turning out scum or the NK's?

You’re pointing to things that happened in the random voting phase. I didn’t take charters’ post seriously. And, in turn, my copy/past vote wasn’t serious. I jumped on GC for trying to hold that against me. Charter flipping scum didn’t surprise me. And if I was the maf, I would have killed GC too. I thought I had a legitimate case on Quints, but, after he pointed out to me what he really meant, I understood and dropped it.

Too many scummy players for this game! There can't be this many...

[Porkens]

Townlist

Qwints
Moratorium
Stef

Scummy

4. Zoneface
3. Crywolf
2. Pacman
1. Salem_PC

Neutral

Raider

[Porkens]

I let Moratorium tell you what's wrong with your last post, qwints, although I do see that you've missread something key about what moratorium said.

I fail to see the difference between "finding town" and "scumhunting." Furthermore; I really don't think it's fair to say that I haven't been scumhunting, my last couple posts pretty much summed up my <long> list of suspects.

As for being suspicious of my 'praise,' I can appreciate a good tin-foil hat, so, there you go.

[Porkens]

WIFOM defense much?

Nope. He was active, logical, and aggressive.

[Porkens]

Welcome.

I outright defy you to present evidence to back up the claim that there's a line to draw between me and quints.

[Porkens]

1. Post 36, qwints FOS's my predecessor. Post 37, Porkens votes him for c/p'd reasoning. Post 39, 40 charter says he would wagon either of those two but is happy with his vote. Post 48, qwints upgrades to a vote, after Porkens has moved onto GC.

I don’t argue with this series of events, however, as it has been discusses, my vote in 37 was intended as a random, silliness vote.

2. On an issue of Porkens scumminess, in 88, he moves to crywolf with weaker reasoning than he had on GC or salempc.

Random stage over?

unvote

I think this is getting us nowhere and that Stef is a moron, and until he starts to have some sense, I'm going to just ignore him.

Yeah, unfortunately, the town isn't afforded such luxuries.

vote: crywolf20084

Again, this was the birth of serious posting for me. I hadn’t

made

a case on GC or salempc at that time, so how do you get off calling it weak?

3. In 115, qwints votes for charter following some WIFOM in charter's favour. In 124, Porkens gives a barely analysis of the game, rather than some meaningful commentary on the GC-charter battle.

A

barely

analysis? That was the most in-depth analysis anyone had presented so far. And I did comment on the CG-Charter battle, and on Charter himself!

3.5 In 125, Porkens votes qwints for 115. Still nothing in the way of comment on the charter-GC. 127, qwints basically says sorry. 128, Porkens drops it way too easily. 132, qwints pats himself on the back. 133, Porkens pats him on the back also.

Hmmm…no. As I said in 124:

f) I don't like this next post (115) much at all. First of all, qwints injects a TON of WIFOM into the conversation really really unnecessarily. Essentially "charter is too scummy to be scum" doesn't hold a lot of water with me. Then, qwints contradicts himself by voting for Charter after all. This post seems to 'cover all the bases.' In one brief post: "I don't think charter is scum," "I'm voting for Charter."

That was in response to this;

Green crayons is definitely getting the better of the argument. I have a tough time, however, believing that scum would be as adamant as charter is being on day 1. Being that active and antagonistic is going to put you under scrutiny - scrutiny that it is possible to avoid. That said, that may be exactly what the scum want me to think. So, it's WIFOM

It's possible that this fight is an act between two scum designed to put one of them beyond reproach. I just want to point out the obvious fact that one being scum wouldn't clear the other one.

Because I think charter's moves have been anti-town, I am going to vote: charter. Charter, why aren't you a liar?

What I took from this post, the first time I read it, was that qwints was trying to play both sides of the field. However, after I re-read it (after qwints’ post 127), I realized that I’d misinterpreted “So, it’s WIFOM,” and “why aren’t you a liar.”

As for “dropping it too easily,” my response was:

Well, it wasn't clear. I see what you mean now.

I saw that I had misread but I wanted to rebut the idea that “it was very clear.”

4. 216, Porkens outlines why the case is generally pathetic, and why every player has done it in this game, but still is in support of salempc lynch, explanation Porkens?

I

just

lost a game, YOUR GAME, to active-ish lurkers. So yeah, I’m a little sore at that. I’d have been

more

than happy with a salem_pc lynch. If Qwints wants to go that way too, that’s just fine with me.

5. 217, Porkens makes a townlist, Porkens knows that this is scummy.

Jesus H. W. Damage but I’m tired of being slapped around for this one. The townlist is what is left over after I pick the scum. Sorry, next time I’ll LABEL it better.

6. 221, Porkens does some soft-core distancing.

I was young and I needed the money for school!

7. 224, Porkens reasons why he would have killed GC. (RED FLAG)

I’m not afraid of expressing my opinion. I’d have put money on him getting wacked night 1, and I think most of you would NOT have taken that bet.

[Porkens]

1. Well, I'm sorry you feel this way but that's all the explanation I've got for you.
2. Huh, I guess the problem here is how we each interpret the word "case"
3. I don't follow your comment about the 'wiki'
3.5. First of all; I assume since you didn't say anything about it your droppong the point about me 'not mentioning the GC-Charter case. Second, to be absolutely honest, I can not remember how I first took his post. It deos seem clear to me now.
4. Why am I

not

contradicting myself? I assume that is a typo. I had completely written-off vampiric as a no-show, that's why I didn't say boo about him at that time.
5. Allrighty then.
6. Haha take it howver you want. If we argue this particular point it's going to turn into "yes you did, no I didn't, yes you did, no I ..."
7. If someone asks me why I'm not suprised that someone was NKd (which they did in this case) how would you like me to answer instead of telling the truth?

I agree with you about 263 (I suppose THIS is bussing?)

[Porkens]

I'll believe it when I see it.

[Porkens]

waitin' on you, raids

[Porkens]

The last six days of the gap(from the 15th to the 21st) I was V/LA due to a family emergency.

Prior to that, I felt I had commented on what I could and was trying to encourage other players to take the initiative.

You're the only one (that I can recall) who promised to post before the deadline :p

[Porkens]

Raider, putting a single vote on Moratorium without even a case to back it at deadline is absolutely worthless. Unless you want to get other people to join you, it's just a "safe" place to stick your vote.

I still like Moratoriums posts, even if they are against me.

LG has done a fair job replacing into a slot that's been tainted by really bad play.

I don't like qwints' backpedling on wagoning salem_pc. His last post, especially irks me.

unvote

vote: qwints

[Porkens]

Just because I didn't vote first doesn't change the fact that I've thought salem_pc was scum from day 1. Accusing me of bandwagoning just doesn't hold water.

does not compute *explodes*
What in hell are you talking about? WHO SAID THAT?!

Haha

QFT

You phrased this much better than I did!

[Porkens]

Get's

where

first is the part I don't understand.

E Gads, your right. However, id rather lynch qwints than LG, based on my post above, so if no one is interested in doing that (and ill be sad) ill switch back,

[Porkens]

Ok, let me throw a hypothetical out there;

During the day; I accumulated 3 votes against me.
At the very last second of the day, 3 people vote for Qwints.
So, at the deadline; its 3 for me, 3 for qwints.
What happens?

(will people continue to vote or will I be lynched because I, earlier in the day, had 3 votes first?)

[Porkens]

Just because I didn't vote first doesn't change the fact that I've thought salem_pc was scum from day 1. Accusing me of bandwagoning just doesn't hold water.

does not compute *explodes*
What in hell are you talking about? WHO SAID THAT?!

Haha

QFT

You phrased this much better than I did!

Sorry, I was posting from work, and didn't quite compute what pacman actually said. I read it as "Of COURSE accusing you of bandwagoning makes sense" not "who accused you of bandwagoning?"

Reading it again, I don't know how I made the mistake.

[Porkens]

Crywolf and Pacman need to commit to a vote.

[Porkens]

That's a hammer.

I was the "Half-Empty Bottle of Hand Sanitizer. <town-aligned>" At night I had the ability to "keep one office supply out of harms way" or do nothing. Because I was half full, I only got to squirt that ability once (which I hadn't done yet).

Thanks to the mod for giving me the coolest ability I've had so far, just sad I didn't get to use it

GL guys.

[Porkens]

[08] Once your death scene has been posted, you’re dead. Stop typing. Not even a “Bah!” post. Just, just stop. Fingers off the keys. You're no longer breathing. Save it for after the game is over.

Oh, well hell's bells. I thought it was once the hammer dropped.

[Porkens]

I'm only sad about the Pissed-Off thing and Salem's bad choice. I was extatic that LG bussed me.

Seeing the origional scumlist in this game, with me on it, gave me sadface.

[Porkens]

OYA! Thanks to all the replacements, alot

[Porkens]

ROFL I WON AND I DIDN?T MAKE ANYTHING?!?!?!


OMG.
However, first game won. WEE!

hahhaha, grats!

[Porkens]

Coolest scum role I've ever had.

sorry to hear about your accident, I hope you are ok.