Mini 706 - Prozacmod 2 -Door Mafia - Over

[Korlash]

mrifnoc\

[Korlash]

Vote: Korlash

You know what's behind the door... TALK!

Also @ Farside: Technically massive's replacement was the last to confirm... not Tisp...

[Korlash]

Huh... that actually makes sense... I'm losing it... getting too old I think... ><

[Korlash]

Oh no! It's Darox!...

...

<.< nope... can't think of anything to say...

[Korlash]

=O People who don't know me?!?! Ridiculous! Unacceptable! Stupenderific! wait... scratch that last one!

It is hard to imagine there are still some eyes and ears that have not become afflicted with the blight that is Korlash. (Hmm... No idea what I just said... hope it means good stuff >.>)

But I am here to remedy that! To ale what cures you and all that jazz.

[Korlash]

I think it's a stretched to call that "fixed"... XD

[Korlash]

XD

Ahh.... Made milk come out of my nose that one... and I haven't drank milk in ages...

[Korlash]

Well I can already tell this game is going to be interesting =D

[Korlash]

I'm not a god... >.> At least I wasn't last time I checked....

[Korlash]

I remember that... they were good times...

[Korlash]

well i think it's about time this game start moving in a forward direction, if you know what I mean. So I have taken the liberty to painstakeningly reread *gasp* the thread up until now and analyze each and every post and compile my evidenc einto one fake scumdar type... thing... enjoy!

~

In order* of fakescuminess to faketownieness

~

1)

Korlash

- Claims he has inside knowledge on my role... as it is day one and I am town I see no explanation for this other then him being scum and knows I am town!

2)

Sirdanilot

- First to vote, shows he is aching for a kill. he also was able to hide his true intentions for his vote by asking his opponent what he thought of the vote. A sure fire scum mastermind!

3)

Phate

- Quick to question the Mod's Basterdishness... Perhaps a sign of a weak scum group. Shiftily tries to kill people... not very town like!

4)

Tisp

- He claims he confirmed yet his name is not bolded by the mod... An interesting development.

5)

Jebus

- Insane usage of the caps lock key... Not unique to scum but definitly something to watch closely.

6)

Strife

- Attacking people who are not around to defend themselves... Need I say more?

7)

Darox

- Entered the game late under ruse of replacement... I smell coverup.

8)

Armlx

- Continuously tries to "correct" other's posts. shows he wan't to be in control. Why? Perhaps he is scum? *dun dun dun*

9)

Flameaxe

- he has the same username as this one guy who was scum in this one game! Coincidence? I THINK NOT!

I am going to convientently ignore Farside and Spy completely!**

Also I have nothing but good, positive, pro-town things to say about ZazieR!

*- Order is completely random.
**- Forget you ever read this sentence.

References

:

*

(2008) wikipedia,

List of players

. USA. Online Source.

*

Mafia,

Mini 706

. Posts 12, 16, 23, 45. Mafiascum.net. USA. Online Source.

Dedication

:

*I dedicate this post to ZazieR, who I have nothing but good, positive, pro-town things to say about. I also dedicate it to myself because, quite frankly, it took me a long freaking time to do this so I think I deserve a little praise!

Spellchecked by: No one!

[Korlash]

That is a very interesting question Farside and the answer is really quite simple. But before I answer that, what is up with fast typers? Some people type so fast that forget to include

[Korlash]

Asking him what he thought about a random, reasonless vote would never create useful discussion. In fact nine times out of ten it will provoke a pure OMGUS revote. Also the first post of a game will never get discussion going regardless of what you say.

I also find it odd you would say scum do not want discussion. They may prefere shorter days yes, and they may like discussion to be less focused then we do, but they need discussion going in order to use their tools of misdirection and manipulation.

Trying to justify what can only be a random vote makes me think you feel guilty about it.

[Korlash]

EBWOP:

Anyway guys, I know the joke phase is fun but we should start discussing a bit by now.

The first thing you should know about me... is I have people everwhere... wait... no that was Quantum... um... right, the first thing you should know about me is that, to me, Joke phase lasts the entire game. Although I do pause it whever Nap phase and Pants phase comes around.

[Korlash]

I'm honoured Korlash May I sig it?

Sure! That's the whole reason I post stuff, in the hopes someone will say "Hey, I may want to read this again later! Better put it somewhere easy to access!" ^^

Also, I must admit. Your point against Korlash is interesting. Perhaps I need to look at this Korlash-guy. But you have to tell me, how did you find out that he had some information about your role?

*Gasp* You are right, how did I not see this! Korlash, how did you know that I had secret info on my role? Hmmm? Ha ha, talk about secret information! You're caught now scum!

(Korlash, I like you . I see mafia games still as a way to have fun and I like to make jokes through the whole game. But some players don't agree with me about that. Luckily, I have you in this game .)

I can tell we're going to get along just fine! ^^

Now on to more serious matters... Gas prices... but before that:

Then again, it never hurts trying, doesn't it. I try to generate discussion, the fact that he doesn't budge and simply OMGUSes me does make the attempt fail, but it was his fault, not mine. I did everything I could in the first post.

Shifting blame onto others isn't a very pro-town thing to do...

Now that is interesting. Generally, discussion is going to be less focused if everyone keeps making jokes, and they get away with doing scummy things. But I do see your point here.

Actually you are half wrong and half right here. Jokes do trail away from the main focus somewhat, but if the people making the jokes are able to joke and keep on track it shouldn't be a problem. In addition, Jokes and the like help keep stress levels down and the atmosphere as friendly as possible, which in turns makes it easier to keep discussion where it needs to be. It's what you may call a necessary evil of sorts.

Why would I feel guilty for something that is actually pro-town. How am I trying to justify it? Please elaborate.

Alright, I can do that.

You see it is impossible to make a real vote on day one, page one, post one. You have nothing to back it up aside from past grudges and a roll of the dice. Meaning any case, post, or vote made at that time is pure random fun. Random fun cannot be justified as anything other then random fun.

You are trying to justify the vote and question by saying you hoped to generate discussion from it. You gave a reason for what you did, hence trying to justify it. The average townie when questioned about their random vote would simply say "It was a random vote and I wanted to see what would come of it. Get off my back!" Where-as the average scum questioned about

anything

will try to come up with a believeable excuse or reason for the action.

This is why I am suspicious of anyone trying to come up with a real sounding reason for a random vote. Of course I realize average =/= everyone but I do know average = some so I make sure to hit anyone I see doing it up for questioning!

So let's continue this discussion. What "discussion" did you expect your vote and question to generate?

I am deadly serious here.

Vote strife for victory.

Is it just me or does "deadly serious" sound like something we should all avoid? Are you contagious? Maybe you should see a doctor about that... Until you do perhaps stand over there... no, way over there... a little more...

[Korlash]

It is, if it's justified. It points out a suspect, and that's the thing townies are supposed to do, isn't it. I don't think you can say that shifting blame is a particular scum tell or even town tell, in all cases. It varies.

I call very few things scum tells, real scum tells that is. This isn't one of them. And as far as pointing out a suspect goes, no it doesn't. It throws any currect pressuer and suspicion off of you and onto the person you blamed. It's more of an exit strategy move. And town have no need to use exit strategy.

In your particular case it isn't justified. There was really no blame in the first place, so by throwing it onto Jebus you not only shifted blame but created it as well.

I agree. But didn't you read this part of my post?

"I don't mind jokes here and there, but they shouldn't affect the discussion or it will turn into an anti-town thing to do. "-sirdanilot

No actually, when reading your post I decided to start in the middle so I skipped that part.

In that case, I am definitely not an average towny (that is, in any game). To get discussion going, people need to accuse each other, and in the beginning phase of the game people are going to accuse each other about silly things. I really don't see how people who don't want to justify their actions when asked to are pro-town. Surely, my vote was random, but the ultimate goal is to generate some discussion. In fact, I think that I have succeeded in that now, even though it's not a discussion with the person I voted for, that doesn't even matter.

It's trying to falsey jutify unjustifiable actions that makes one not pro-town. Not the other way around like you said.

Exactly this, although my original plan was to get it going with Jebus, it doesn't really matter that I am now discussing with someone else.

Actually it does matter. see it's not really a discussion unless other people get involved, and it's not really "good" discussion unless everyone is involved at some point or another. So if yourorriginal plan was to discuss with Jebus it would be a good idea to rake him into this with us.

Also what is so special about Jebus? ;_; I feel like the rebound guy...

[Korlash]

I re-read Sirdanilot to try to understand what the Sir/Korlash discussion is about, but I don't quite see what the 'shifting blame' comment is about. Korlash, can you clarify with a quote or two how Sir is 'shifting blame?' What blame, who's it on, and who's it being shifted to?

Then again, it never hurts trying, doesn't it. I try to generate discussion, the fact that he doesn't budge and simply OMGUSes me does make the attempt fail,

but it was his fault, not mine.

I did everything I could in the first post.

^ Shifts blame onto Jebus for his "plan" not working. In all reality there is no blame as what he did was doomed to fail anyways.

As far as your questions go...

What blame?

The one right there...

who's it on?

Him... Quick hit it with a hammer before it bites him!

who's it being shifted to?

... I'm a ninja?

[Korlash]

Wait, first you said I shifted blame, now you say there was no blame in the first place. That's a contradiction, Korlash. Stop confusing the town.

Is not, stop lying to the town. (See I can play dirty too...)

The real question is why did you feel the need to shift blame off yourself when in reality there was nothing to be blamed about?

Saying "It's not my fault, it's his!" is shifting blame. But in reality it's no ones fault as what you did was doomed to fail. So why did you feel the need to blame him for the failure? Why did you feel the need to not be blamed yourself?

Anyway, I do blame Jebus for blocking my attempt to start a discussion. I know that him blocking this poor attempt is not that scummy, but hey, we're in the first few pages and any microscopic hindrance of the town should be noted, in my opinion. And right now, this is the biggest scum tell I've seen so far.

Who are you to say what is and what is not discussion? Who are you to say playing around in random phase is a "hindrance"? In my opinion your questions "What do yout think of my vote!" was answered by Jebus's "OMGUS vote: you!" So technically discussion was started. So i suppose if we want to get technical I would ahve to rephrase myquestion to you: "Why are you saying Jebus hindered the town when he very clearly kept the discusssion going?"

Please elaborate, I don't think you can even logically say that the other way round, and I don't think I did that.

You said: I really don't see how

people who don't want to justify their actions when asked to are pro-town

.
I said: falsey jutify unjustifiable actions that makes one not pro-town.

So in simple terms just because one action makes one not pro-town does not automatically ean the opposite action makes one pro-town. Savy? (Ironically I am still not confused...)

Very good point. Obviously, the discussion with Jebus would expand to the other players as well. So, you still haven't shown me the difference between discussing with you and with jebus? What is your point here?

I don't think I ever really have a point... I just talk to talk most of the time... enjoy the company and what not...

In this case however if you hd rriginally intended to discuss, argue, or converse with Jebus my addiction to said conversation should not exclude Jebus. In your orriginal statement it sounded like you were saying you didn't need to discuss with Jebus anymore because it didn't matter now that you are discussing with me...

You will never know

Trust me... i have methods.... you will talk...

[Korlash]

Yeah... those two are giving me a headache... *blends into crowd*

[Korlash]

This little joke did force me to post my summarized case first. Very smart, Korlash. Smile this put you into a tactical advantage. I wonder, why would a towny even need such an advantage?

To answer your question a townie should take every advantage offered to him/her to best out the scum. If you were scum for instance, answering first may help me out a lie. That aside I need no advantage and neither do I ever plan for one. You can take that last post of mine however you want. Paranoia is good for the soul.

Uhm, if you call these simple rip-a-post-apart-into-quotes (RAPAIQ) posts tl;dr, then you're going to have a hard time this game because that's the way I post. And believe me, I have seen people posting even longer posts than mine. Way, way, way longer, in fact.

Yeah I post this way alot to. And us being the two most active people in the game so far posting the way we do... I do not look forward to how this thread looks in another 20 pages...

My summery is a little different. Starts in post 64 with my fun-filled comment about how you were able to vote without revealing why. You claimed it was to start discussion and blamed Jebus for the discussion failing. I then stated that discussion will not be spawed from a random vote and that it was not a person's fault the discussion was not created. Which then brought the discussion to "Why did you feel the need to blame Jebus for anything?"

That is a summery, it is missing a lot of the finer points and comments but overall tells the whole story...

However... I do have a few notes for yours..

So, the summary.
sirdanilot: wanted discussion by asking jebus what he thought about the vote
korlash: asking about a random vote never creates discussion
you try to justify a random vote

(I believe I never said this until after you claimed you were tryng to start discussion... when making a timeline, the timing of things is very important...)

sirdanilot: I try to create discussion, jebus blocked it
how am I justifying?
korlash: you shift blame that's a scum tell

(Lies... I called it "not pro-town" which is insumountaby different from a "scum tell." In fact I clearly said it wasn't a scum tell in post 77)

you can't do a real vote in the first post, can't be justified. you say you want to create discussion from it.

(I never said you couldn't do a real vote, just that you can't back it up with anything as the game hadn't even started yet.)

town says: huh I just random voted get off my back. scum explains why they did it.
sirdanilot: that's not always a scum tell
people are going to accuse each other about silly things. why are people who don't justify pro-town. I have now succeeded in getting discussion.
I planned discussion with jebus, but this is fine too. doesn't matter
korlash: there was no blame, you created it and put it onto jebus
it's trying to falsely justify unjustifiable actions that makes one not pro town, not the other way round (?)
it does matter, other people should get involved
sirdanilot: you contradict yourself
jebus blocked discussion, small scum tell
?other way round??
obviously discussion expands to other players, so what's the point
korlash: no contradiction. why do you shift blame if there is no blame.
discussion did start, with the omgus
(I still don't get this part, I'll look into that later)
(what?)

bolding is mine... that does sorta say most of it...

My current main point:

Sir was quick to blame others when something went wrong. In this case there really was nothing to blame which makes it even more suspicious as why did he feel the need to blame others for nothing?

Still has yet to be answered... you think after making the summery Sir would have at least responded to my latest question... but I guess not.

[Korlash]

Am I scum? If you thought I were wouldn't you have voted me already.? And if you do not need an advantage, why would you take it. Isn't scum hunting the most important?

1) i don't know are you?
2) You have no idea what I would or wouldn't do if I thought you were scum.
3) I didn't take any advantage... what did you want me to do? Go back in time and post before you? That seems impossible....
4) what is your point with the scum hunting thing?

[Korlash]

I am not accusing Korlash of not thinking that I am scum. I simply asked if he wouldn't have voted me already if he did. How is that me accusing him of anything? Look at the context. He inferred that he did something because he thought I was scum, I replied by asking 'wouldn't you have voted me already if you thought I were'? How is this a strawman of any sort?

To answer your question I don't know. I might or might not be voting someone if I think they were scum. All depends on the situation, case, and what I expect to gain from my vote.

On a more this game right now note, I never inferred I did anything for any reason. Simply explaining why I would hypothetically want an advantage on you. I then went on to explain I did not intend for any sort of advantage. You knw these little mistakes like this don't mean a lot on their own but they do start to add up... I'm begining to feel you're intentionally trying to twist my words...

3. It was just a small thing, that you basically forced me to post my summary earlier. It was still worth noting though.

I didn't force you to do anything. In fact you could have just mimicked what I did and then any heat the town raised for us avoiding the sumeries would fall on me for posting first.

Hell even better, you could have told me to go first. For any reason you could think of. "korlash posted before me I think he should sumerize it first" or anything of the like.

I think spreyx case is weak at best. I feel like sirdanilot and Korlash feels like a town arguement based on one comment. I think both have a point about what scum does and doesn't do but I don't see a reason why asking question about votes is scummy.

What? Someone has a weak case on page 4?!?!? NO WAI! That's impossible!

Also it's not asking questions about votes persay... You could say "asking questions about reasonless votes." I mean what the hell is Jebus suppose to say, "Uh... I don't feel good about that vote..." ? Seriously... Besides my whole "case" (If you want to call it that) about Sir is that he has an un-townlike survivalist nature this early in the game.

1.) Alas I have been devoured by Korlash's tactical maneuvers in our battle of wits. Who, but a scum, would stoop to such amazing tactical prowess to defeat but a mere towny. How dare ye let such a scoundrel that utilizes said advantages live. P.S. Pudding.

I hear this one a lot... >.>

[Korlash]

The argument between sirdan and Korlash was ~a waste of my time to read. It strikes me as two townies going at it - I wouldn't vote for either of them at the moment. Korlash's play is typical of the other game I've played with him (in which he was town). What interests me more are the people taking sides. I'd be alright with an armlx or SpyreX lynch.

You're alright with a lynch on page 5?

Ohh this is gonna be a fun fun game.

Well yeah... I'm in it! ^^

I do have to agree with some of your post 111.

@ Everyone who called this a Town v. Town argument:

Why? What makes it a town v. town argument? Or will you all be honest with yourself and just admit you don't care you just want an excuse to not read it. Not every two person verbal exchange that is a pain to read is town on town action.

[Korlash]

By that logic each singluar person is "probably" town. So taking anyone alone leads us to assume they are town. Thus no lynch is ever possible...

[Korlash]

Well I suppose that all depends on your personal opinion on the definition of what is and what is not "null"...

[Korlash]

Ouch... Did you have to use the cattle prod there Chaz? I'm branded for life now...

Let's see what I missed... blah blah blue... Ok...

(3) he doesn't look like he is honestly scum hunting, so yeah he's scum

Define Honestly scum hunting? In my opinion finding a lead and following it seems as scumhuntingish as you can get...

You definitely implied it, namely in the "If I'm scummy, why aren't you voting me" area. Your complete denial of this is part of the reason I'm voting you.

Implying is not actually saying it. So to deny saying it seems pretty accurate. Also realize there are times when you imply things without realizing it. I'd have to read it again but I never got the feeling he was calling me scum.

Armlx push on a weak case so far with nothing to really back it up is the worst.

This case sounds pretty weak... I mean there's not a lot to back it up and I mean if you wanted to find a stronger case then Arm's at this point and time then you would need like... 2 magnifying glasses and a telescope.

It's day one so most cases are going to be weak especially when they are just starting off. Like hey, your's for example. Just something to keep in mind eh?

Besides I think darox take's the cake for weakest case. Plus now he's stolen cake...

[Korlash]

;_; I'm hurt Farside... I mean we have only been in like 4 games together...

[Korlash]

I dont think a weak case is something to feel strong about.

You needto feel strongly about anything you think is important. If you make a case and don't feel strongly about it, it won't go anywhere. You should put your best foot forward for everything you do in this game, be it a small point or a weird attack. Confidence strengthens all attacks.

Also who's to say what seems weak to you isn't strong to someone else?

It's jumping on a scum tell early with little to nothing on it.

I think all real scum tells should be jumped on early... I mean what is the point of having scum tells if you don't use them to tell scum?

I feel like armlx is pushing it and it's a lost cause but to acknowledge that he would have to admit to making a mistake which town should not have an issue doing but scum don't do.

I don't think anything is ever a lost cause really. You're bound to learn something from every discussion. Take my spat with Sir, Never playe dwith him before so our little argument helped me learn how he plays, how he thinks, his geral attitude towards things.

Also how exactly did Arm make a mistake? Where?

[Korlash]

Really? I remember one where I replaced and that was the large game. I'm talking day 1 start game.

Well I suppose AITP doesn't count because of it's weird mechanics huh...

I've never seen anyone ask someone the "If you thought I was scummy, why aren't you voting me?" without it being them thinking the other person was scum. Or attack your actions re: Jebus in the manner he did, or strawman like that.

I've never really seen anyone actually say it before... at least none that I can remember... Regardless, just becuase you haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Except of course for a free lunch, nevr seens it and it doesn't exist... >.>

[Korlash]

I would love to ban most wiki terms. Too many people on this site have become too wiki! Too reliant on the stupid lingo such as WIFOM, Strawman, Opprotunistic, even the word "scum tell" is throw around too much!

*passes out pamphlets*

Join us in our fight to right the wrongs and injustices of the land.

[Korlash]

Opportunistic though? Hopefully THAT one doesn't get messed up?

All the time. People tend to over use it now, almost as overused as WIFOM has gotten...

[Korlash]

It's been more like 4 or 5 pages... way to distract the town with false statistics... >.>

[Korlash]

why do Sir and farside get two votes? That's not fair... V_V

what are you talking about?

[Korlash]

Dear: Everyone. Can we please stop the 'almost everyone vs sirdanilot' semantics debate, given neither side is clearly going to reverse their opinion, regardless of how many times the same argument is re-iterated?

That depends... can the rest of you stop the "links to useless places" war?

And as far as I know its not semantics. A few people think Sir is susupicious or scummy or whatever they think due to stuff he posted. It is a viable, worthwhile, scum hutning case they have going and you want them to stop just because you disagree with it? BS. Go make your own case or find a new direction to travel and don't tell the others to throw away the last 4 pages they put effort into.

[Korlash]

I'm talking about the 'hey, your grammar is bad' comment specifically, not what he mentioned afterwards. It's putting down Zaizer on an issue unrelated to the game, setting the "I've clearly got the upper-hand" mood for when he actually does address Zaizer's attack.

Why do you think Phate chose this opportunity to point out a grammar mistake? No doubt there's been dozens of other mistakes so far this game.

Also, why so defensive of another player?

You are as paranoid as Sir... Always looking for conspiracies and people trying to "take advantage"...

How is those 2 quote backtracking? I see it as sir asking a question about him being scum and Korlash needs to vote for him fi he believes he is scum. Equals him saying that Korlash is scum.

This was a little hard for me to understand, are you saying that you think Sir said I was scum?

[Korlash]

I'll tell you. It's because you disappeared. I am sadly not schizophrenic enough to continue a discussion like that on my own.

I know how you feel... Korlash disapeared after my last comment on him so I feel my vote is going no where right now... I suppose I could talk to myself until he gets back but what would that solve right? *shakes head* some people...

[Korlash]

Korlash I would like your point on both cases from armlx and sir. Do you believe either are scum?

I think Sir's case has a lovely personality but it just doesn't seem to be the type I would hang around except on special occasions. Arm's is a little more exotic and fun loving but I doubt it would show any appreciation. I mean it really doesn't need me...

In all serious I don't think either is overly more scummy then the other. However if I were to make a logical deduction as to which one would most benefit the town to vote I would say Sir. He has been the more or less center of attention all day. Meaning he would have more to analyze knowing his alignment and of course the "connections" factor.

Do I believe this alone is enough to lynch under normal circumstances? no. But I do know that this game has been plagued with inactives (sadly I know I fall into this category myself here and there) and of course the only real discussion that happened today involved Sir. So it seems the "best" course of action.

But when I get back I'll make an effort to read arm and sir and even strife and maybe give my real "point" on the issue. However Jason Stathom is more immportant so I bid you all adue!

[Korlash]

I'm starting to work on a semi-quick post.

You done yet?

@farside: Yes, I was ready for a lynch on page 5, or rather to push for one. If one happened, that would be very revealing in and of itself. I am completely fine with very early lynches, as they tend to be informative for town.

The biggest piece of info I get from early lynches is to never do it again... But there's no need to see anyone hang, I'll just tell you that now. Lesson learned!

You know I get why you asked Zaz to be more specific but I mean you haven't been very "vocal" about much yourself.

Correcting grammar =/= Ad Hominem attack.

I don't think Insults have a very defined limitation as to what does and does not count. I mean colors don't seem very ad Hominem but I bet there are situations where people will kill and die over insults involving them.

Did you accidentally or intentionally forget the part immediately after the link where Phate debated the points Zaizer had made?

Did he actually debate anything? All I saw was him asking her to be more specific which is just blowing her off for the time being. Are you just trying to find something to argue with strife about or do you just have a case of Phate love?

I'm not 100% caught up, but getting there.

What do you do read one post a day? here I just "read-up" on 6 people in the span of 10 min. (granted they are the least active 6 but still...) I mean you start the game late, then spend the entire day one rereading... Should we even bother keeping you around or can we 86 you now and save us having to read the 6 posts you'd make over the next 3 days?

sorry for being so forward, but I hate empty promisers...

Ok so I didn't look up arm or Sir yet but I'm getting to them... I figured it would be more fun and worthwhile to hit the people who haven't done anything this game.

[Korlash]

Korlash. I apprieciate your thoughts. I really dislike lynches based on info then on actual scum hunting. I've seen scum use that as logic for voting someone out more often then not. And no I don't think you are scum I'm just saying the Sir lynch looks opportunistic.

I agree with you. However with less then a week till deadline, I don't forsee a "lot" of new scum hunting going's on. And a lurker lynch seems to pale incommparison to a Sir lynch.

And when you look at it, a few people DO think Sir is scum so it's not purely on information. We do have people legitamately pushing his case, so scum hunting as you say would factor into his lynch.

[Korlash]

I'm not sure what you mean, 'he would have more to analyze knowing his alignment.' Do you mean that, regardless of what card he flips, we could get a lot of information from that D2?

Well "He" is suppose to be "We" for starters... <.<

And what I mean is that when someone flips town or scum regardless you go back and respectively try to draw whatever conclusions from that you can. As scum you look for partners via bussing, distancing, buddying, etc.. Along with whatever other connecctions you may find. Same for town more or less.

So a person that was the center of attention for the entire day wil have more connections to draw from and more to analyse. What I meant by my last post was that lynching Sir maximizes the info we gain tomorrow. (theoretically) And normally that alone isn't all that good an argument for a lynching but looking at our situation right now it does seem to have a lot of merit to it.

Deadline in under a week. Please can we run someone up to a claim before 30 minutes prior to deadline?

I think Sir should claim personally... Thoughts on that from others?

I believe everybody else has at least made their intentions known

Nothing for me? I find that odd. Not sure what to make of it though...

My vote is suddenly not random.

Your vote you made 10 pages ago, kept all of day one, ad literally did nothing but talk about all day is now all of a sudden not random? You sure don't like to waste time do you...

[Korlash]

Ah man... if only I had posted 2 min earlier... D=

[Korlash]

I woudl suggest if you're going to adapt a three strike then you're out policy then you change the ruling from "post frequently" to "Post within X time or you get prodded"...

... All my time on this site and I've only ever been prodded once... now here twice in the same blasted game... I'm getting too old for this...

I'll get working on a post within the hour...

[Korlash]

115 - Defends against jdodges meta attack with a meta defense, defends darox with a meta defense. First one is natural, but defending darox is a bit odd to me. And yes Darox plays that way but that doesn't mean he can get away with it just because he does it every time.

Oddly enough, in Abyssal mafia Darox was scum and I don't remember him playing like this. I seem to remmeber him being in the driving seat so to speak.

You asked me to summarize the 'nonsense' (aka the only serious discussion at the time) and now you say that I went too deep into it to reply to? Does this make sense?

No actually... I think you're on to something here...

You were trying to put a scum Darox spin on it, and imply various scummy activities of mine from it.

How so? I didn't see him trying to put a scum darox spin on it. The most I would dae to say he did was say that a Darox-scum possibility still existed and we shouldn't ignore it. And I think "Various" activities is pushing it. I hardly think it qualifies as one let alone "various"...

1. Except it IS there, and you saying it isn't doesn't make it go away and make what you are doing not OMGUS.

I think I missed something... how exactly is his actions OMGUS?

ZazieR has asked for a replacement, I will now find one.

;_; saddest news I heard in a long time...

Regardless of Darox' alignment, I do not feel you were entitled to meta defend darox at the point which is why I pointed it out.

What qualifies someone to be allowed to defend another's past game performances? DO we have to take a class and get certified? Is there is a fee? ><

Your posts 236/237 were recent contributions to the game. I was complaining about people who were slipping by the entire day without making any opinion known.

Well technically I haven't made my opinion known... Unless you're going to say you honestly think I want myself lynched...

Please make a vote on who you Do want lynched. If you don't have time to make a case first, vote first and explain later - at least that's better than risking a no-lynch.

This is stupid. Deadline rules state the highest number of votes will be lyched so a no lynch is out of the question. (unless someone changed the rules on me) and this close to deadline reasons for voting are the most important. Especially from a player like Flame.

[Korlash]

I'll cancel that meta out by saying I just finished Mafia 673 where Darox was a very passive mafioso for half of the game that he was part of. Conclusion - the meta itself is useless.

Most meta is...

I didn't do a "display all previous posts by Korlash" because you had just made a reasonably detailed post with a 'more to come' ending - didn't think you needed prodding. Looking at it now - why are you still voting yourself?

Don't see any reason to change it yet...

[Korlash]

Korlash, I actually agree with strife that it's time for you to make a decision because self-voting is pretty anti-town. Your vote is your only official game action (at least, that's what I assume for now) and you should use it to the most effect. The main targets seem to be me, armlx and strife but if you see a case against anyone else shout it out.

Well people have said this exact same thing to me before. I disagree with them then and I disagree now.

Also it is not anti town to self vote. It's not pro-town either that's for sure, but things are not anti-town simply becuase they aren't pro-town. It's one of those grey things that doesn't make a diffrence either way...

[Korlash]

Let me try to give a logical argument against your stance Korlash.
If you are a vanilla townie (for the sake of simplicity), you benefit the town by a) being an extra pro-town body b) contributing opinions on who you think the scum are (i.e. scumhunting) c) your vote
Everyone that chooses not to vote increases the power of the mafia's vote. That is, if it's 3 scum 9 town and all members decide to vote, scum have about 1/4th of the control. If all town members decide to be useless and abstain their vote (or worse, voting for someone they KNOW is town - themself), scum have 100% control over lynches. Thus, each townie vote decreases the influence of scum votes, making no-vote (or self-vote) anti-town by the converse argument.

Just a for-warning I have had this argument in two of my last three games and haven't lost it yet. But if you want to try sure. Not getting how arguming about it this close to deadline is the best thing to do though...

For starters no one is abstaining their vote so don't even include that in your argument. Secondly by voting a known town (Or yourself) You control your own wagon. You would have to be a moron to keep your vote on yourself all the way to lynch. Thirdly "everyone" is not doing anything. One person, one vote. Show me a game where everyone votes themselves at the same time and I'll show you a game mafia have virtually no chance of winning. (As they are voting themselves)

To further destroy your argument a town putting a vote on someone he does not know the alignment on has a greater chance of putting it on town. So when the scum vote that townie is already that much closer to being lynched. So in theory a town voting anyone but themselves is increasing the scum's control in the lynch. (And yes I know this is a BS argument but it beats yours, so if Mine is BS what is yours? Double BS? )

If self-voting is not pro-town, but voting IS pro-town (which I will argue to my grave is true), than abstaining from a pro-town action is anti-town.

Throwing trash on the ground is bad but throwing it in trash cans is good so if you abstaine from using trash cans and just put the litter in your pocket... you are bad?

Not doing something pro-town does not make you anti-town. It makes you in the gray area between them, neutral action if you will.

Abstaining your vote also makes it easier to go through the game under the radar, and leaves relatively little past information about yourself if end-game comes around - both of which benefit scum more than town.

Bum bum bum bum bum bum bum! (Insert your own octives and tones at your disgression)

Not throwing your vote around in every post makes you unconnectable. Meaning said person cannot be connected to dead town or scum via voting patterns. You can argue it helps scum stay under the radar and I'll argue it helps town not get stuck in any bad looking situations.

2) If you get to end game and the only "past information" you can think to look at is voting patterns then you screwed yourself letting some guy lurk until end game.

D) We are not talking about abstaining your vote, we are talking about self voting. They are two diffenet things and any argument against or for one does not apply to the other.

I will state it now and forever it is not your vote that helps town it is your case, argument, points, attacks, and generaly your discussion. Voting a guy and not saying why will never help town ever, where-as stating your case and points without a vote will almost always benefit town.

If your vote is NEEDED when you give your case, then your case is weak. If you vote simply for "pressure" then you should know constant attacks put more pressure then a worthless vote.

Granted I have not been my usual happy go lucky super active type of guy in this game so if you want to stick me for that go ahead. That's my fault and I know I could be doing better...

A vote is only essential and absoluetely needed when a lynch is needed. Deadline would be one of those times and as one of the most active (Or at least I used to be) on this site I can almost assure you I can place my vote 5 min before deadline hits.

Right now if it is between Arm and Sir I honestly can't pick. Neither of them screams scum to me. the aspect of info and connections tomorrow is actually about the same in my eyes as the only really big issue Sir has over Arm is the argument with me and I already know my alignment. This is an issue I'm confused a bit on so I need to go back and find where it started so maybe I'll be on a better foot after that, but right now my vote is perfectly fine where it is.

Also realize how neither you nor Sir would have said anything about it if I hadn't mentioned what I did first. So ask yourself, if self voting is so "anti-town" how is it this entire day I got away with it like I did with only one previous mention that was blown off?

[Korlash]

Not an argument worth having in-depth discussion over in this thread, I see. I hope at some point in the game you decide to start making use of your vote, and I'll be more than willing to argue in another thread after the game is over.

You started it. And like I said, I already have two other threads with it if you still feel like beating the dead horse.

HOWEVER, in the way Korlash does so, his vote is NOT contributing to his own lynch and it likely wouldn't anywhere else, in which case the reason self-votes are bad is nullified.

The biggest thing to remember if I just tacked my own vote onto one of the wagon then the other lurkers who aren't voting may do the whole "In order to have a majority lynch" yadda yadda bull crap and then tack their own votes on as well just because said wagon is so far ahead.

Theres really no point in me throwing my vote either which way if I don't feel strongly about it because it would only influence those not voting. So my vote elsewhere would actually be detrimental to the town in that it helps lead to a reasonless lynch.

[Korlash]

Doesn't that make him a good Killa Seven then?

Korlash, why are you still voting yourself?

Does it matter?

[Korlash]

Neither. I already told you a vote alone is worthless. It doesn't pressure, not really. All my vote will do is make a quick lynch that much more likely. (example being Darox and flameaxe walk in and throw their vote onto the wagon with excuses like "I didn't want a non-majority lynch" or something.) And of course in all fairness if you're town who has been unable to post recently and come back to find it's two day's until deadline you may just toss your vote on the highest bandwagon just because it is the highest wagon.

I won't vote until I have a case and/or at least an attack to back it up. Or until it's less then 12 hours to deadline.

[Korlash]

Then maybe you and farside should be backing up your votes instead of prodding me. Why don't you two make your vote count and force a claim that way.

You know, if either of you could come up with a reasonable case or point maybe that would help influence my vote. M'kay pumpkins? ^^

[Korlash]

@ Mod: Can we get a running votecount as deadline nears? Thanks!

Right now I'm havign the odd feeling I don't want to vote for either Arm or Sir. I would much rather see Farside get a wagon built up. Mostly as these last two posts, instead of helping the case on Arm, seem to only back up Sir. As if she's helping him along to keep this fued up.

Weak stuff really but it's one of the few things that have actually caught my eye this game...

[Korlash]

What about Darox? Take a look at his contributions this game, then take a look at his history of posts on MS since this game started. He's being intentionally vague and lurky.

*sigh* I had a full 4 paraghraph post in the works and had to delet it all... I was under the assumption Farside was voting Arm yet it seems her vote is on Strife. (Shakes fist at Chaz)

Sadly that changes things...

[Korlash]

Ok my feelings are not as strong as the post before last but I'll still say what I have.

*pretend I requote Strife here*

Glad you asked that! So happy to now be able to answer it! Sadly if no one can read what you wrote theywouldn't get what I am about to say but as you plainly see I just quoted you so all is well!

Joke time over? bah...

What Darox is doing and what I *thought* farside was doing are two completely different things. A lack of contribution and contributing on the wrong subject are not even close. So I do have to ask why did you even feel the need to mention him in responce to what I said about Farside?

*sigh* I guess I'll go back to the drawing bord... really thought I was on to something there...

[Korlash]

I disagree and have disagreed with arm's case from the get go where you have not stayed one way or another. Then state you think a sir case is beneficial now you want me lynched because I disagree with armlx but since I wonder if sir is being vision impaired or OMGUS with his comments? Is that really the best you got. Seriously that is the equivalent of saying lets lynch a lurker at this point.

First off I said wagoned not lynched. While the difference is small at this point, I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. (Or at east not huge words like "Lynch" which is a pretty big deal in a game of mafia)

Second off my suspicion was based around a false piece of info. So I appologize. However, your comparison of your feelings on the Arm case to mine seem unfounded. What does my not staying one way or the oher have anything to do with anything concering you?

Thirdly if I wanted a lurker lynch I would suggest Phate or Darox. So using that as an out to blow off any point I had (Yes I know I don't have it now but theoretically you didn't know that yet) seems... well like you were trying to use an easy out to blow me off.

While my orriginal suspicions are gone thisresponce has given me new ones! YAY! All is not lost! ^^

[Korlash]

At deadline the person with the most votes is lynched. Stating you would like to start a BW can lead to my lynch.

Aye, but just becuase it can doesn't auto make it my goal now does it?

Third I was making a point on your comment about starting a BW based on weak reasoning then an actual case is the equivalent of lynching a lurker.

That seems to be the only thing you can think to talk about this game isn't it? Arm's case is weak! ... Strife's case is weak! ... Korlash's reasons are weak! Kinda like a broken record...

It didn't have anything to do with Farside. It was just a question, which you didn't answer.

I'm sure I've answered it in the past. Do you expect me to answer the same queston over and over?

[Korlash]

a) You haven't
b) Even if you had, the answer to that question should change as Darox's lurking has become more obvious and more detrimental
c) Why would you try so hard to dodge a 'what do you think of this person' question?

A) Perhaps you're right... Although with all this lurker talk I would be sure I would ahve said it earlier. I'm for the most part against any lynch that's entire reason is sumed up as "he lurked"... There are exeptions, today is not one of them.

2) Not really. Phate will always beat him in that. I don't care what darox does, no one will ever "lurk" worse then phate.

3) I haven't dodged anything. I have responded to your question twice now with another question. Hmm... no maybe that is dodging. Regardless I'm always hesitant to answer questions that are thrown at me in an attempt to sway my thinking. When I mention farside and the possibility of a wagon being built and three seconds later yous tart asking me about Darox questions start forming in my head. "Why are you trying to distract me from Farside?", "Why do you feel the need to derail the Farside wagon before it even starts?", "What is so important about Darox you feel the need to bring his name up out of the blue?" and the like.

If I did have to dodge your question for a day I appologize, but if you ever try to distract me from my case, poiint, or argument again expect the same treatment. And of course if it was unintentional on your part, well lesson learned eh. Hope if that's the case Farside doesn't flip scum because... well... that would just suck for you wouldn't it.

[Korlash]

You are a chauvenistic italian mafiate. BUSTED.

I'm still waiting for the sir to come in. Soon, the egg will fall.

Finding one spelling mistake in my sea of posts is like trying to find Waldo in War and Peace... You could at least have given me a little hint where it came from... I can't remember the last time I called someone a tart...

That aside I hardly think one post qualifies me as chauvinistic... Otherwise most guys would be labled such after a single beer.

[Korlash]

How is asking for your opinion on another player distracting? It's like 5 days until deadline and the only player you've mentioned being the list bit interesting in 'wagoning,' not even lynching, is Farside. Who has no votes on her, not even your own.
I ask about Darox because he'd be my second lynch choice. His lurking and his 'my vote is no longer random' comment make me very suspicious. You expressed concern for his lack of explanation on this comment as well, but hadn't mentioned him since.

It's bringing up the discussion about wagonign a player, then imediately having another person throw another player's name out there that is the distraction. I see it as you trying to get any fuel that may have gone into a Farside wagon to detour onto a Darox one.

I haven't mentioned him of late mainly because there's nothing to mention. My past comments lay unanswered and thus new comments do not form. We can talk about how bad this is and what actions need to be taken sure, but as you and Farside seem egar to keep bringing up deadline is within reach so I don't think now is the best time.

Also on the whole me not voting her thing...

Unvote:, Vote: Farside

My orriginal suspicions are not actually lost because when you think about Strife and Armlx are near the same in the fact they are both against Sir. So my orriginal point about instead of pushing her vote she instead focuses on the person that is being pushed by the person her vote is on. Confusing sure, but I still think it holds merit.

[Korlash]

Well Sir should have claimed 3 days ago... Why has he not?

[Korlash]

Right... so who is this scum buddy? Arm? Sir? I mean who can I honestly be protecting?

[Korlash]

Nicely done. Placing a retribution vote on the grounds "You could be a scum buddy with so an so" or in laments terms placing a vote on me for reasons of another possibly being scum. That's a slam dunk case Farside... (For the other guy )

[Korlash]

You note others views but don't state your own here.

So?

Basically promoting a policy lynch but still vague on who you find scummy either way.

Yup. Couldn't be I just didn't find either overly scummy could it? *gasp* hey wait! That makes complete cents! A quarter, a dime, a nickle AND a canadian penny!

Yet you didn't feel the need to vote at this time either.

At this point you never did do a case or view on either Sir or Amlx by the way.

1) I've made it quite clear I would note vote unless I actually had somehing to back it up or until it was 15 min to deadline.

2) That might actually have something to do with why I didn't vote! *gasp* Hes right! if he HAD done a case then he would have been able to back up a vote! It all adds up now!

Oh wait you know about this but you want to push votes on be at deadline. How convienent that you wait so long to do this:

*antisipation is building up*

When I defend my point and mention that your little delay in trying to start votes on my near deadline you state this:

*edge of my set now*

Yet over and over you fail to realize that at deadline the person with the most votes is lynched. I see this as an attempt to stop either Sir (most likely as he as the most votes) from being voted out or Armlx (as people see him as a viable second option)

*explosions*

I was worried it was going to be a let down... and it was...

I have never failed to realize that at deadline the person with the most likely votes blah blah ends with lynched. Are yut elling me you KNOW if a wagon is formed on you you will auto become the most votes? A wagon can be as little as two votes or as many as 7. Hypothetically if you only had 2 votes you wouldn't be lynched! If you really want to waste time arguing symantics I will but I will always win. So don't try me sister! *evil laugh*

So you see this as me trying to stop a Sir or Armlx lynch? then why did I not just vote the other of the two? I elect to save a budy of mine by starting an entiely new wagon this close to deadline as a master plan to get you lynched and save them? Seriously?

I may never have made views on Arm or Sir entirely clear but that only means that I could have hopped onto which ever wagon I wanted. Tell me how starting an entire new wagon has any real hope of saving either?

Damn spelling police. I hate your grammar teaser.

I think he's just trying to fill his quota... Stoping us all for misdemeanors and unpaid spelling tickets... >.>

[Korlash]

*cough* that last one was said by Farside... >.> "spy" Is French for "farside" so my bad for mixing those up. Easy mistake you know...

[Korlash]

Korlash how many games have you been in where who ever has the most votes at deadline is lynched?
Do you know what typically happens at those deadline lynch times?

I really don't see what you think this argument will accomplish. But I'll humor you.

1) Aside from Mith's games, nearly everyone I've been in. Once in a while an odd game will have special circumstances. Sometimes deadlines carry a no lynch, sometimes deadlines carry a random lynch, and every so often a game comes around that just plain doesn't have a deadline and requires a majority.

2) uhh... At deadline lynch times I assume a lynch occurs and the day ends... I guess in some extreme cases of sickly mod a brief twilight may occur but then that just defeats the purpouse of a deadline now doesn't it?

[Korlash]

If you can ever find where I said Sir or Arm were scum then you might have something. But as that never happened, me not voting for them doesn't prove anything.

second, if I were scum who just up and decided "Hey, it's deadline! I need to vote someone!" and then voted someone based on nothing, doesn't that just equate to a randomly placed vote to cover my own ass? If that is the case, then it can't be to help out a buddy otherwise it wouldn't be random and the ultimate goal wouldn't be to save my own ass. Where-as if my goal was to save a buddy don't you think said vote would be more thought out and based on more? Obviously ifmy intentions are to draw attention off someone the case I bring up would need to stand out. And if said case is weak and baseless there is no way it could possiblydraw any attention off my "buddy"..

What I think is that you just want to find some reason to toss the legitimacy of my vote into question so you the first BS thing you can think of. However, in an attempt to create any argument possible against my vote, you inadvertedly suggested impossble scenarios. First off you accuse me of protecting a buddy but can't even give a logical guess as to WHO said buddy is. Obviously if my actions can be seen as protecting everyone, how on Earth do I help my buddy? I can't swing pressure off him onto someone else because hey look my actions look like I'm proteting them as well!

Next you say I might be scum placing worthless votes at deadline to keep from drawing attention to me. (Which is what I gathered you were talking about via your Moding Memoirs.) That contradicts the argument my vote is a strategic buddy helping vote.

Also, you really shouldn't be placing so much faith in this "close to deadline" thing because it's a big factor in my case against you. So keep it up, I like people wo tie their own nooses.

[Korlash]

Ha ha ha ha... Strife... you make me laugh out loud...

[Korlash]

*shrugs* Are we all vanillas? Who says there can't be roles. I mean inventors, item finders, room switchers, theres a lot of power to play around with in this game.

[Korlash]

Not fishing so much as being stupid.

[Korlash]

Generally been taking sides in weak manners, going with the tide and what not.

So a "general" remark... You know specifics in this matter would be appreciated. I mean not only would I enjoy another's take on my mark but this whole half-avoiding the issue thing makes my case look bad.

So you know if you wan't to be "general" try to keep it limited to your case peoples.

[Korlash]

Where does it imply anything? It's called a "sample town role." There is no indication it's vanilla, no indication it applies to all town, no indication it is even a real role. It is a "sample" nothing more, nothing less.

[Korlash]

Shouldn't have been scum them

And I feel like James bond here... >.> Getting involved with evil women...

[Korlash]

afa replaced Zaz... ;_; She had me so fooled...

My thoughts for today is we should do a hypo room claim. We go down whatever list we decide and each claim our room number and we hypoclaim targets. (that is if you targeted anyone last night claim it, if you did not then make it up.) Then when that is over we can run backwords through the list claiming our items.

I can't even really remember why I thought of this, I thought it up sometime early in the night and that was quite a while ago and so much has been going on in other games...

I think the point is that last night anyone of us could have been anything. And so hypoclaiming targets might put more pressure on the scum. It will force them to claim targets before their item meaning it "might" (based on my opinion alone, I greatly value your input on this) help any watchers or trackers with their information. Then once that is out of the way we can claim our items. I'm not really sure if this is the best idea or if it is even a good one anymore... But it's what I thought of last night so comment away.

Also, if anyone got information from an investigative room, it should be claimed immediately. Opinions?

I think it's much more important to wait until after we have decided not only how we plan on "claiming" today and have inacted said plan.

Any guesses as to why the only kill came from a booby-trapped gun? Did anyone get the option to kill but refrain from using it?

a couple theories. 1) Any town aligned killing items or abilities were targeted at AFC or failed via jailkeeper items, doc items, rb items, etc...

2) The scum work just like us and can only use items in the room. so maybe AFC's use of the gun counted for their normal typical NK. As it was a trick gun it might have then litterally blown up in his face costing the scum their NK. (flimsy they but I'm sure we can work on it)

3) Someone else's item was to booby trap another's item and they used it on AFC which caused his kill to backfire.

also I think no one should answer the question about getting th option to kill until after we figure out our claiming strategy and inact it ect...

[Korlash]

Re: hypoclaim, I don't understand what good it will do to false-claim targets if we didn't target anyone. It seems like it would just add confusion. My opinion as of now us that any target (or other) claim should be 100% honest.

It should work in much the same way hypocop works. Just instead of cops we can potentially be anything.

I believe that declaring (future) room numbers without stating the related actions, will be more beneficial to town because, for example, let's say that I slept in room #1 last night and I know that it is a killing room, I then know that player X, who will be sleeping in the room tonight, has a killing role, and can use that info to help deduce his alignment. Or, for example, player Y, who sleeps in that room on N4, will know the identities of two players who were responsible for previous kills. It will also allow townies to utilize their powers wisely (one of my suspects gets a killing room I've already slept in and I get a RB room, for example).

This has quite a few downsides. 1 being that players can choose their rooms whenever, which means right now multiple people mgiht already have picked tonights rooms. It also means if someone were to say "I'm going to sleep in room 5" there is no gaurantee someone hasn't already picked that room. And of course there are now going to be 2 vacant rooms tonight so someone could say "I'll be in room 10" then after everyone claims picks one of the two not picked.

Of course also if you were to die tonight all knowledge of the room you were in last night is lost.

Lastly the mod randomly switches certain items to different rooms. So you would have no way of knowing if the room you slept in last night even has the same item tonight. (Unless you pick it again, but if that's the case then what's the point anyways right?)

[Korlash]

We should be able to take advantage of the fact that these power-roles are room dependent

Rule 3.5 makes this highly dangerous and likely of failure...

[Korlash]

We (except Darox) are also neglecting the option of simply playing this straight, keeping all room/item information private unless it is deemed relevant to the scumhunt. In this way, we reserve townie information that may be used to catch a scum lie later, and we guarentee that certain townies will have an every-other-night power, at least until the item they've been using is switched/manipulated.

We also lose the information from townies who are NKed. And of course you only have an every other night power if you are quick on the draw of repicking your room.

[Korlash]

Oh right I forgot. I do think we can't spend too long discussing how exactly we will claima nd what we will claim becuase we will most likley still need time today to do the necessary scum hunting. So I'm wondering if it wouldn't hurt to create a claim order now? I propose we just claim rooms and rooms only going either room 1-12 or 12-1. (Or any other sequential order that could potentially start at any numbers room and go in any direction looping between 12 and 1.)

For starters it will give us whatever a fairly random and un-alterable order for claims. And it will get out info that most of us agree should be stated today at some point anyway.

[Korlash]

Good then it will make up for the negative points you bring into it. ;P

@Farside: What exactly can you tell us about this post restriction?

[Korlash]

I thought she was Farside... Man I need glasses... >.>

[Korlash]

*sigh* Our claims got screwed over Farside... >.>

[Korlash]

Well seeing as how there are what, 2 scum and 9 town the odds of town getting it if all town knows what room to get is 9/2 or 4 times more likely.

It becomes about speed really, who can grab the room first. So the excuse "I'm afraid scum will take it! is stupid. Town will have a BETTER chance of getting good items if we all know what rooms to go after first.

[Korlash]

No the real question is why are you making a giant signal saying "I know stuff Scum would like to know!"? You're making a very big deal out of this which is something someone with knowledge shouldn't be doing.

If what you know will help the town in any way and you have sufficent reason to share it, be my guest. However if you truly think scum will profit more then just stay quiet. You do realize after all this even simply claiming your room number could lead to disasterous consecuences now that you've told the scum the item in it is so awesomely good for them. Why don't you just send them a map of where we all live with the door codes and spare key locations? Would you like to buy them weapons, masks, and ammo as well? Maybe make them a snack?

... Sorry, got a little carried away >.>

[Korlash]

The existence of an 'item switching' room makes this iffy. If scum find that room, then they will have a lot of control over keeping powerful rooms in their own hands.

The existance of an item switcher makes everything iffy. However if we come to find out the good items were switched then we can then place blame on the person in the item switcher room. All the more reason a massclaim needs to happen.

[Korlash]

This rule kinda ruins several of your assumptions. The items are not static, and any kind of attempt to setup the town with all the best items would fall on it's face because of this.
Also, why are you assuming that an item switching room exists?
Furthermore, although this discourages the use of any potential pro scum abilities, the inverse is true in that it disrupts the pro town abilities. An investigative room is hardly useful if everyone that uses it gets killed before they can reveal their results, and even less so if the scum manages to get control of it.

12 rooms, "some" items moved a night there is always a chance an item wont be in the same room as it was the night before but I'd be willing to guess at least 8 rooms remain unchanged.

A item switching item exists because the mod says it does in the rule you posted. I suppose by room that is what you mean.

Scum grabbing a pro-town item (such as an investigative item) is just as likely if we all don't know where it is. No matter how you argue it, whenday starts town is at least 3 times more likely to grab the rooms we want if we all know what rooms to get. If we all know where it "was", we all know to try to get that asap, and so at least one of us might get it before the scum.

2ndly, we only have to worry about a person being killed before revealing investigations if we are stupid and teligraph what room we will enter that night. As long as we keep quiet about WHO got the room with the item in question, the scum have to rely on luck to hit that person before the next day. And of course people have to worry abotu this in every game, so this is no different. (Technically it is. A cop plays a cop every day in a normal game, in here a cop merely plays it for a day. So it is harder for scum to find that nights "cop")

At the end of it, claiming all our actions each day just helps the scum keep on the ball and doesn't give them the opportunity to slip up that a later massclaim allows.

No it doesn't. Not claiming everyday gives scum the best chance at avoiding being caught because out late game massclaim will be minus 5 players. (rough number exaguration. Could be more or less depending on when we would massclaim and how many have died)

We need to claim every day so we don't loose info from the people who die at night.

[Korlash]

Well farside was nice enough to begin the massclaim so I believe she falls in the "pro" side of things.

[Korlash]

Where?

In the posts that were eaten by the forum move. If they never resurface I more or less remember her claim. I claimed as well, but if noone saw it it's pretty hard to verify.

Think that through before you argue it, and you'll see how dumb it is.

I wouldn't really care how dumb it is if the facts are against it. You say you couldn't vote yet, and then what, four days later vote. What the hell was the point? Someone claiming scum is dumb too, yet I've seen quite a number of people lynched for it... In fact I could almost swear we were in a newbie game together where just such a thing happened... hmmm..

So... I finally finished rereading. Sorry. Taking care of a toddler does that. I still haven't perused the notes thoroughly, but I've read every post. There are lots of little reasons I think Farside is scummiest, but the tell that most stands out to me is the way she jabbed and nibbled at sirdan's credibility while of the explicit stance that sirdan was town: too much surety in her read, and actions that clearly conflicted with her stated opinion.

*sigh* I really wish I could remember why farside was my number 1 suspect yesterday... A long night can do that to a guy... >.< Maybe I'll give it a reread myself and we can compare notes later...

Remember that scum might kill you tonight to keep you silent.

all the more reason massclaim needs to happen and get moving...

@ Farside: was there chocolate ice cream in your room? Did you do anything with it?

This seems a pretty stupid thing to ask. Either A) You saw her claim, in which case you already know the answer to one if not both. or B) You just randomly thought to ask about chocolate ice cream... which no sane person would ever do...

[Korlash]

@Spy: You switched it so anyone targeting strife targeted Farside instead? Am I understanding that right?

[Korlash]

What are your feelings re: Far now? Is she still suspicious to you? If not, what has changed?

Right I remember it all so clearly now... Yes... In fact she is not only suspicious but kinda annoying... <.< Then again so am I.

I do find a few things odd. One being Farside says she had a choice between vanilla or chocolate. And the other that she didn't say ice-cream.

[Korlash]

What? You gots to go to the bathroom? Roomservice forgot your ice? You iced someone? O.o in the bathroom?

[Korlash]

I've finished looking @ Zaz/afat connections. Kor is implicated by Zaz, but afat points out the buddying to Kor so we're getting mixed signals. However, there are a few exchanges where Kor looks dirty, one example being where Farside is "mistaken" about them having played together in the past and Kor doesn't give her grief for it. Another one... I'll share after I get the answer to a question...

Didn't give her grief? WTF does that mean?

@ Kor: Could you repeat your claim? What item did you get and what did it do?

I got an item that did things! It was great!

Afat's gambit post (#342) seems to clear myself and strife (too bad, hanging strife is fun). It implicates Darox, which is funny considering the fact that this is the most pro-town play I've seen from him. Zazie's gambit post (#172) implicates Farside and Darox, and (yay for small miracles) clears me

How does 342 clear you?

And how exactly does 172 clear you as well?

A great player and I really hope he's town but, as I sift back through the evidence, the prognosis isn't good. There is one major town-tell but a handful of scum-tells including fence-sitting, vague statements, the way he started the sirdan mislynch wagon but then got well away from it, and the things I mentioned above.

I never started any wagon. Saying I have a load of scum tells then lying in the next sentece doesn't bode very well for you young padawon! The buddy/buddy with Zaz could be a tell but as I neglected the same buddy/buddy with Chic it could be perhaps it was the player I was befriending, not the role. The fence sitting was there sure. I agreed with some of each case and disagreed with others. For most of the day I was only looking 'hard' at arm and Sir as they seemed to be the center of attention but neither one of them ever... whats the word... got to the point where they actually looked like scum? I suppose that's multiple words...

i would definitly like to know about these vague statements and this town tell.

[Korlash]

Ok this has gone on far enough, let me try to clear something...

Ythill... said he got Vanilla Ice-cream. Farside seems to be saying she got "Chocolate" (As in think candy-bar) and "vanilla" (As in... honestly that does confuse me... I mean Vanilla is a flavor not an object... Maybe White Chocolate... )

Was it ice cream you got Farside?

[Korlash]

It means that she said something you knew to be untrue but you never suggested she was lying. In fact, you seemed to have assumed that she was mistaken, which doesn't fit with your other play. And, in #164 you changed the subject tangentially, a move that Far made the most of.

I did assume she was mistaken because at the time the two of us were in at least 2 other games togethers. I'll have to read 164 again... hold on... 164... page 7...

Uh huh... Zaz made the most of it as well... Hell people made the most of it in the other 3 or 4 games I made that same subject change too! /sarcasm

An offtopic subject that has little to no real bareing on the game is hardly something one can "make the most of."

Seriously. The claim could clear you of one scum-tell. If you're not willing to share, please explain why.

I am willing to share. The fact I've already done it proves that. The reason I am hesitant is becuase you just made (what I see as) a completely false string of attacks on me. You then mentioned you would only share another once I have answered a question I already answered. As 1) Nothing you have laid against so far seems valid, I see no reason to bow to your wishes. 2) I'm definitly not going to help your case, especially by answering a question multiple times. and 3) Seeing as how I already answered, regardless of the site crash, i think it's only fair you go first. You say I look dirty, yet will not share it until I claim. As you ahve been AGAINST a massclaim, asking me to claim is contradictive of a sort.

These three facts together give me reason to 'force' (hopefully in a completely non-agressive and friendlyy way) you to reveal said Dirty act before I repeat my claim. However, should you bring into light some actual reason my repeat of my claim is needed before you reveal whatever it is you want to reveal, then perhaps my views on the subject can change! ^^

Both contain unprompted aggressive attacks against Phate. Of course it's possible that they were both distancing, but unprompted + aggressive usually =/= distancing and the fact that both players in the same role did it suggests that the move was one more common to scum play (i.e. an attack vs. town).

That could be. I would hardly refere to myself on the expert on distancing so i can't really say much on the subject. However, in my experience a "lurky" scum, when promted, may make a big fuss over a partner. I cant remember exactly how active Zaz was so it may not even be a factor here. As far as Chic goes any number of theories are plausible. As you say, could have been whatever it was you suggested. Or I suppose some replacements may be compleded to resume any attacks made by their predecessors. And of course, just like lurky scum, a replacement scum may make a strong showing against their partners in the begining. There's countless reasons why... Both a lurky scum/replacement are a little 'out' of the game, so instead of trying to find some scum tells to capitalize on they may instead just focus on known scum and create tells. Distancing and bussing are always possibilities. In my mind a lurker may feel, againompelled, make their input as worthwhile as possible to either help overlook said lurking or to hopefully help support furture lurking. All of this is mere speculation, then again so is most of what you said. I do also think there is sufficent enough speculation on why scum would do the same to town so there is no reason you HAVE to be their partner. I just, sorta focused on that for my current speculation spiel! xD

You didn't vote. That doesn't mean you didn't start it. Your arguments with sirdan lead to the nonsense against her. It appears that you sewed the seeds and then stepped back. There are a few places where your opinion of the Arm vs. sirdan fight fluctuated but I have yet to determine if those changes followed the flow of evidence.

Never voted, never called him scum,a nd never said he needed to be lynched or wagoned. You cannot start a wagon without doing at least one if not all of the above. My comments may have lead to others starting the wagon, but that was their doing not mine. I could say "the sky is blue" and someone could start a wagon on another off of that. Doesn't mean I had anything to do with the wagon.

Me and Sir had a nice little conversation. During and after that conversation I never really saw any reason to vote either Sir or Arm. (And trust me I looked, I was beginign to feel I was stupid for not understanding why the other side was so against the other. Then I just came to the assumption they were both town and thus I was able to find farside! I believe that is how yesteday went)

I'm not so sure how exactly my opinions "fluctuated" but if you can find evidence of it good for you!

I said there were a "handfull" of scumtells, not a "load" so stop attributing bombast to me. And I didn't lie. It's possible I'm misinterpreting, but your OMGUS isn't going to show me that.

"load", "Handful" both units of measurements, neither of which actually have a point in this discussion. You can remained focus on it if you want but I'm going to move on to real points!

As far as OMGUS goes, just becuase you attacked me and I attacked back does not an OMGUS make. You need a pamphlet! Here... It defines OMGUS and tells you to stop misusing the word! Seriously... I hate when people do this crap.

It was a summary. I'm willing to back up the things I said, but I don't have much interest in pursuing you right now because I would rather focus on Farside.

sadly enough this is acceptable. I too want to see Farside persuide, although not to save myself. My suspicions of her from yesterday and the fact she has the PR, and of course seeing as how multiple people targeted her last night all make her a very good person to question today. However, just becuase we are also focused o farside doesn't give us the right to ignore each other. This is a forum, when you say something To/About/or directed at Farside all you ave to do is hit the [enter] key 3 times and then do a "@Korlash" and vola! You are now focusing on me. So have your fun with farside but yes, I would really like to see you back up what you said. Otherwise I would have to assume you're avoiding me because I am right. And me being right is never a good thing for anyone.

Sorry. I'm not the thype that shares towntells except in extreme circumstances. It was a pretty significant one, which tells me two things. (1) You may have set it up on purpose. (2) I should be cautious about assuming your alignment, just in case you did not set it up on purpose.

Personally I don't believe in town tells. In fact I don't think I've ever even used the word except in this game. (And possibly in our last game if this subject had come up in it as well) In fact I hardly believe in scum tells. I only know of 1 real scum tell offhand, and I suppose if I was forced to think on it I could come up with another 2 possibly. But for the most part most things people call "scumtells" aren't...

You can think whatever you like, however I believe in Golden rule, or more to the point I believe in karma. You keep something from me, I see no reason to tell you what you want to know. And as you are asking me to repeat my claim... You obviously want to know something...

[Korlash]

Hey... when Did "Ythill" change his name to "Korlash"? Silly quotes... Messing up the names! tsk tsk... >.>

[Korlash]

@ Kor: I'm trying to be brief (per "summary" point), we can come back to argue the finer points later, if I decide to actively pursue your lynch (or you mine). Until then, nicey-nicey is fine. I'd simply adore your help in pressuring Farside whether she's your buddy or not.

Most people are my buddy. D: I like to hang out on weekends, you know grab a smoothie, talk shop, and the like...

Quid-pro-quo: I've already claimed. Vanilla ice cream, vote restriction. That is all. The point that I am withholding is based on public information, I'd just rather hear your answer before I reveal it, so that it doesn't give you foreknowledge if you are scum. The reason I need you to "repeat" yourself is that I was absent before the site went down and did not read the claims you mentioned. Not even sure that there were claims, but I don't see why you and Farside would lie about it, so I'll assume you're not.

Well if you go check the "news" thread you'll see me and farside both complained about missing posts so unless we psychically linked together to pull off this lost claim cherade I think theres more then enough evidence to suggest we ae telling the truth.

Secondly the info you are holding back is "based on public information" which leads me to believe there is some chance I should/could/or might even already be aware of it. Where-as my info is based on personal, unique, only me and the select few who were here at the time, information... So... Why is i more important you stay quiet with public info then I stay quiet with private info? It seems backwards to me.

There's no need for you to know what I see as a towntell in your favor. Are you going to argue against it? Do you want others' to, regardless of your alignment? Knowing what I have considered a towntell will only help scum manipulate me, nothing more, and is therefore bad for the town. Repeating your claim can help the town because it will help me confirm or rule out another tell.

Tells are worthless to the town unless pointed out. To say "I see a tell!" and never say what means, for all we know, you're lying! Making up stuff. You say you see a town tell on me, how should the others not think you're covering for me? Why should I not think you are buddying up to me? Hell one could argue you're fence sitting on my issue. You bring me up as possible scum but give yourself an out by saying you see a great big town tell on me. If the attack on me goes through with support you can just toss the town tell aside, while if no one supports it you can play pretend with this fake town tell of yours and play it off like you never tried to push a bogus case.

and don't take this as me saying said tell is fake, that was hypothetical. I'm just saying, the way I see it, the possibility of you lying is pretty high especially seeing as how you're so insistant to not tell me stuff that, really, shouldn't matter.

And I'll ask nice... pretty please?

Well as you asked so nice and seeing as how a phone clal just interupted my train of thought and I have no idea what I was talking about and I'm not going to read all the crap I just wrote to find out...

I spent the night in room 12. Lovely acomdations, full-sized bed, free mini bar!

I also found myself a stop sign, I think it's fairly obvious what that does. Used it on farside.

That's not word for word as my memory is shot... (Too full of worthless trivia like Math Proofs, sentence structure rules, and physics equatins) but it outlines the base of it. Seeing as how Spy claims to have bussed Farside with Strife I suppose I RBed strife last night.

OMGUS: You assumed I was lying rather than misinterpreting when I spoke of your actions starting the sirdan wagon. This, perhaps, due to the fact that you "know" that you are town? I've read the pamphlet, thanks.

Assuming you were lying and not giving you the benefit of the doubt is not a form of OMGUS. If the rest of the stuff you said seemed to add up perhaps I might have been more willing to believe it wasn't a lie as much as a mistake, however when something is wrong and is part of what seems like a full blown attack on someone, I tend to see it as an intentional misinterpretation (better? ) in order to help improve the attack. Persoanlly as it was the first responce to it it really shouldn't matter what I called it as you have and had eequal opprotunity to clear it up regardless of what I labled it as. Do you feel you have sucessfully cleared it up?

[Korlash]

Are you really arguing based on what I might do? Lol.

No, it's hypothetical. It's there to illistrate why i want you to tell me. If you refuse to tell me it sparks these questions like "Why?" and leads my mind to wonder.

Thanks for the claim. It ends up being moot, but I'll explain myself. Afat was fishing actively for the possibility of power-roles. In the midst of it, you made a post that could be interpreted as a soft-claim. I figure if you were town, the scum might have NKed you just in case, and if your item was something that rebounded a kill, it would have suggested heavily that you were town.

I think this is a little... illogical. For one, I really couldn't soft-claim my item yesterday, as I didn't know it. And If I was soft-claiming some sort of power my actual role gives me, for all you know this hypothetical role could grant me anything that stopped the kill.

Then again, in a game like this, if I had any role besides vanilla I sure as hell wouldn't soft-claim or breadcrumb.

The fact that you made that post and were not targeted doesn't prove you are scum, but it's one more detail weighing on my mind.

You're negleting the possibility a doc or JK targeted me last night. (item wise that is, not necessarily rol wise) You are also opporating under the assumption what looked like a soft claim post to you must look the same to everyone. As I did not intend for anything to look like a soft-claim, I am not surprised if no one besides you apparently saw it.

No. I still think your "conversation" with sirdan could have been the sewing of seeds. I'll try to keep an open mind next time I read it, but I wholly disagree with your "You cannot start a wagon without doing at least one if not all of the above. My comments may have lead to others starting the wagon, but that was their doing not mine," point. The manipulations of good scum are subtle.

I agree good scum manipulatins are subtle, and if I were actually scum I would take full responcibility for the wagon and gloat over how awesome it was. (even though I woudl know I had ntohing to do with it. free ego boost is free ego boost) However, you cannot 'physically' start a wagon unless you in some way make the other into scum. I don't believe anything I said about or to Sir made him look any more like scum then what he said to me made me look like scum.

[Korlash]

I really dont know what to think. Chocolate that makes you turn into K9 (which, of course, assumes all said players know K9 to emulate) is...strange.

I've never been in a real game with Killa 9. If I had been told to PR like him I would have told the mod to politely "fuck off"...

noted

[Korlash]

Yeah. Believe it or not, I'm not omniscient. Like I said, it doesn't really prove anything as is, but would have been highly evidentiary if you had used an item that reversed kills.

Aye, and it would have been pretty nice to have Stirfe claim before me just in case you know. But no use crying over spilled catching-scum-in-a-fakeclaim-opprounity... Just imagine pouring a glass of that on your morning cereal! =D

And you have not gloated, so you can't be scum. Good enough for me... yeah, right. At least you've acknowledged that my interpretation might be something other than a lie.

Well... no actually... The whole "i would gladly take credit for it even though I know I had nothign to do with it" is suppose to illistrate that even if I was scum I had not planned nor had anything to do with Sir's wagon. Which is suppose to show that you're entire claim that I might have somehow subtly began Sir's lynch is completely false EVEN when you consider I might be scum. So while I'll admit it could have been misinterpretation, or a misunderstanding, or personal opinions, or whatever sure... And so I suppose in that sense yeah, it might not have been a lie. Although it's just as useless as a lie.

I'm interested to know where you stand on the Farside issue. I've determined that Farside had an early town read on sirdan and this determination, considered with other actions, makes Far seem scummy. Rather than give townie reasons for her views, she has claimed not to have held those views. Yet they are evident in many places. Do you think she is lying about her views or that I am wrong/lying about my interpretation?

My interpretation of her actions yesterday still stand. I believe she was "subtley" playing both sides. She votes Strife but instead of pushing her vote she instead backs up Sir. And you can take that however you want, there's a lot of factors I look at here. 1 is she gave me crap about my vote, so obviously she felt deadline votes were importnat, yet here she is not even trying to push her vote. 2 is that by backing up Sir (who Strife was against) she was able to fuel the fire between them, allowing them to 'duke it out' while she keeps her preverbial hands clean. Also, no matter which was lynched (sir or strife) and no matter what either of them flopped (scum or town) she would possibly have an out. Now I do realize this is unfair because if Strife had been lynched she probably would have said a lot more on the subject. However I still think what she was doing was scummy.

As far as what shes saying today... I just can't follow it...

noted

I meant that in the best possible way Sir... er... Mr. Mod... er... the great and glorious all powerful all knowing always correct Mr. Mod!...

*cowers*

[Korlash]

Hmm... What would happen if I was given the PR to post like Korlash... hmm... I would give myself a week before I broke it... maybe 4 days...

[Korlash]

Why did you claim room # Korlash?

Becuase full massclaim litterally means... "full massclaim"...

My claim: I was in room 1 last night. The item in this room was not particularly good for scum, and was even worse for town. It's an odd number, so someone is in it tonight. I think it's best for this person to say who they are, and I will then say what the item was. This will be relevant to town tonight, and will allow nobody to get that item tomorrow, so long as the item doesn't get switched.
So, who has room 1 tonight?

No... Whoever is in room 1 shut the fuck up. And stay shut up. (At least in regards to the room 1 situation)

The scum can't eliminate items if they don't know who is where. Once you start telling scum who is the 1 night cop and who is the 1 night Rber and who is the 1 night bus driver you hand them the game.

I'm getting real sick and tired of this half-assed claiming too. Do I have to go over it again. If you are going to wimp out mid claim don't bother starting it. Make your objections first, otherwise you get in too deep and theres really no point in staying silent anymore...

Now, what pray-tell is in this room of yours and what did you do with it last night?

[Korlash]

God dammit Spy... Bad... BAD! BAD BAD BAD! Hit yourself with a newspaper for me...

[Korlash]

I think you're the only one that thinks room numbers and items should be claimed claimed by all, then.

it makes more sense then telling scum which of us will be what power tonight. I mean you don't have to a rocket scientist to see the big flaw with that plan...

[Korlash]

It does have an advantage. The scum will have shared the items in their rooms and which rooms they had. This way every town knows what's in what room (except the possibly switched rooms that is) and so each town is free to chooce what room they think will best suit them.

You can argue it helps the scum by telling them what is in what room. But as long as we do not fortell what rooms we pick they have no way of knowing who got what room. And as there will always be more town then scum, we have a better chance of getting the rooms we want before scum does.

So al things considered full disclosure is the best path. At least from what I can tell.

[Korlash]

I doubt a bus driver would switch self targeters.

An example would be a hider. If a bus driver targeted a hider and a vanilla town, and the hider choose to "hide" the vanilla town would not in turn hide instead of the hider. I believe items work exactly like abilities. Abilities that target themselves or that are static rarely get effected by another's targeting ability. In fact, abilities that target themselves usually do not involve "targeting" at all because there is nothing to target and so a bus driver would not effect a self-given PR...

[Korlash]

EBWOP: I do seem to remember in mini 556 the mod (can't for the life of me remember who) used BattleMage in his set-up. so I suppose there is precedents for Mods linking their own personal relations with others into their set-ups. I still think it's bastardish of any Mod to make not only a reference someone might not catch, which is discriminating against newbies or unpopular people, but to also make a reference someone might catch which is giving unfair info to people that they "shouldn't" be able to know. One of those damned if you do damned if you don't things...

[Korlash]

And? A choice is not a target.

[Korlash]

Not to kick a dead horse... well not to do it without the possiility of it paying off for me... or being incredibly fun... or maybe just becuase I am bored...

Anyways not to do that now, but just so that we get al the info out in the open...

Why don't you think you are wrong exactly?

[Korlash]

Oh oh I want a present! me me me! Wait... no that's selfish... >.> *sniff* You should give it to someone less fortuniate...

[Korlash]

yay, i am so happy. thank you whoever sent me this very awesome packaged pr... farside your shoes are very nice. and ythill i love that shirt. t? tank? very you...

i am so looking forward to the awesome time i will have in the near future as i read the most awesome posts you fine fellows have posted recently. this pr is so much fun. not being able to use capitals rule! and i love being cheery and upbeat! thanks again! =)

[Korlash]

You did ask for the present. I couldn't resist your charms.

thank you so much! <3 i'll be sure to remember this and return the favor at the first chance i have!

armlx that is a nice font you are using, so very aweome! and jdodge sure has that great sleepy-guy thing going for him! it's really working for him! very hip, very now. you both rock!

[Korlash]

wow spy, i am in awe of your most awesome powers of postage! second only to zaz's utmost powers of seduction and villany! you are (were) both such good people!

now that compliment time is over we can all sout for joy as happy joyous time is upon us!

I am in bewildering wonderment over the joyful bringings that knowing who exactly you qualify as lurkers will... bring... yay!

[Korlash]

well you have him on the lurking, and jerbus rocks at lurking by the way! a real master of it!, but it's kinda hard to put input on someone while lurking so it shouldn't be lurk + lack of input becuase they are both the same thing.

anybody else feel totally awesome right now? because i do! strife i admire your courage and self confidence! it fills me with great joy! and no, that is not just the meds talking... i really mean it...

[Korlash]

He was active on mafiascum during deadline-time when all he needed to do was say 'vote on sirdanilot is serious' or 'unvote.' I suppose just a more specific case of lurking.

regardless of if he was active on ms at the time or not, if he didn't post in this game all you can justify in your attack on him was that he was lurking. the fact you say he was lurking and avoiding justifying his vote makes it seem like you are trying to "fluff" up your 'case' on him.

Is your PR making you speak like a particular person?

yes! i am talking like happy korlash because i am so happy! these meds are great! not as great as your computer though strife, that is a nice computer! and armlx, that is a nice responce to that quote. i have not seen a responce that amazing in... forever! that responce... makes me feel so amazingly awesome words cannot explain how amaingly awesome this amazingly awesome feeling i have is.

[Korlash]

So softly in the moring light.

[Korlash]

My feelings are we should start selling this stuff... Poetry by Spylash, $49.99... We could make a fortune...

[Korlash]

Not if the meaning is us getting rich!

[Korlash]

Oh right, I was under a PR wasn't i... well there goes my present. Guess my prozac wore off early...

[Korlash]

How the hell do I "hand my head"? *grabs head* OUCH! MOTHER-...

And I'm in no shame! I overthrew my drug addiction! I'm a local town hero! Bow to me! BOW!...

Sorry, cold turkey makes me a little crazy...

[Korlash]

How sad is it that I've posted but once on Day 2 and only 1 person seems to have taken notice? I want answers as to why people haven't been cognizant of this.

Holy crap JD is playing... when did this happen? And when have you ever posted more then once on day 2? I thought your thing was to be quiet until day 3?

Wait wait, ignore all that it's just uncalled for sarcasm. But I do have a question, you mean to tell me you have only posted once today and this is all you can show for it? Asking us for our opinions on you?

[Korlash]

Is that all you can offer? A smart-ass response to any question asked to you? Why don't you try answering instead of avoiding it?

I wasn't aware a question had been asked of me. Perhaps next time you should mention my name or else I might get confused or something. But sure I'll answer a question. I think a woodchuck could chuck about 14. Fourteen woods... that's quiet a bit if I know my math straight.

So tell me kind sir and or madam, why is it you avoided my question which was so clearly and obviously posed to you? Are you afraid it may cause me to try and lynch you later? Perhaps a fear of elongated vowels. An abhorance to sentence structure? Responceaphobia?

Bullshit. If you truly thought that, you'd be on my ass non-stop. You're like that about all lurkers with your bullshit "playstyle eugenics" approach to mafia. Stop lying to yourself. You should've been lynched yesterday. The fact that nobody has seen that is exasperating. The sirdan lynch was the worst thing I've seen in quite a while.

One wouldn't be able to tell what with how much you spoke out against it yesterday... Here's a hint... maybe if you actually played the game you could stop some of these "worst things" you're going on about. Saveing the whales, curing cancer, preventing Angelina Jolie from adopting any more stray kids from kaskabecastonia...

Kiss-ass. I notice you say that as you ignore my question.

Don't act like you didn't like it... You'll hurt his feelings.

I call bullshit. It's perfectly reasonable for me to question questionable behaviour despite the catalyst of said behaviour. Try harder, furthermore, pushing for a Jebus lynch at this stage when armlx-scum is staring you right in the face is retarded. Allow me to say this: I am as certain of armlx-scum as I am of farside-town, and I'm pretty damn certain about the second.

You need our permission to say stuff? Fine you're allowed... and uh, what praytell makes you so certain of farside and the word town even being in the same post, much less the same sentence?

As of now I'll agree on Farside.

where is all this farside love coming from?

[Korlash]

I think Crazy is scum...

[Korlash]

Wow! A real JD post tomorrow! I can't wait! *holds breath*

[Korlash]

I think I've read about half the game in random bits. At this point I find SpyreX and armlx most likely scum.

I've found that I think Spy is scum in most games I play with him. But what makes Arm scum?

[Korlash]

Sorry you feel that way. But recently it's like you auto write me off as town without a single attack, case, point, or comment thrown my way.

[Korlash]

However, this bag of lurking if not corrected soon, and mark these words, is going to lose the game for us. Period. If there is not a scum in the united megalurking front I'll eat my hat.

Doesn't mean there isn't one in the not lurking crowed either. And the way I see it you have less chance of finding a lurking scum in a pile of lurkers then finding an active scum in a pile of actives...

? Have we been in more than the two games together?

*shrugs* Up until a while ago I was only in like three games... So from my perspective you were in a lot of them... XD

[Korlash]

A question was asked of everyone. You even acknowledged there was a question there. You ignored it. I'll answer your question when you answer mine. And furthermore, you're the one whom abhors proper sentence structure, as shown by these:

I also abhor spelling, too much mayo, and people who walk by a guy asking for change without ever looking at the poor guy. I mean you're not going anywhere, stop kidding youself. At least have the curtesy to say "Sorry I'm out." or "I gave at the office."

Also my "smart-ass responce" was an answer to your question. I don't care about your lurking because that's what I expect from you. I'm not going to sit here and have a conversation with a guy I know won't talk back. You want people to care about you and what you're doing, start doing something worth careing about.

I have a right to say that the lynch sucked (and it did) regardless of how much I did against it.

True, you do have a right to say that. But let's see how far your "rights" get you when you continue to let stuff you think is wrong happen right in front of you while you stay quiet. You are just as much to blame as any one of us for Sir's lynch. Maybe you should think less about your "rights" and more about what is right for the town.

Partly play, mostly none of your business.

Really, last I checked it was my buisness. Let me check again... hey look at that, it still is.

[Korlash]

Partly because of the way he refused to respond to Jdodge on the basis of him being a lurker, partly because of that sirdan blame thing.

Uh huh, well ignoring the blame thing becuase I really don't feel like arguing with an idiot right now, Where did I ever "refuse" to respond to JD? My answer WAS he was a lurker. I technically answered him twice even though my orriginal answer wasn't really clear. Also I think you mean "refused to answer." You can't techically refuse to respond to someone becuase the act of telling them you refuse is a responce. The only way to refuse to respond is to avoid it completely but in that case you can't ever make it clear you are refusing and not simply unable to answer.

[Korlash]

I do believe you're making an incorrect assumption.
That being that people will always act in a certain manner given a common situation.

Isn't that what one of the fundamental bases of this game is? Meta and scumtells both rely on that assumption. Saying one's actions are "scummy" is an assumption that if that player was town he wouldn't have done it.

[Korlash]

Yeah sorry about the farside22 room thing, if I had known it was a temp PR

Farside had already calied her room before you asked. Nothing to be sorry about...

Disagree here. The PR is only for a fraction of the day, no big deal. It's basically a "proof I didn't do anything last night" room.

So you think a town not doing anything at night is ok? And you also think a town wasting a fraction of the day is good? Much less three of us? Nothing about Farside's PR was good or acceptable.

[Korlash]

It's not a good room for pro-town to get. However, like most rooms, scum benefit just as much, if not more than town does by knowing the location.

How so?

[Korlash]

You're talking to the wrong guy about how "useless" the PR is.

And knowing where any room is gives them a better chance of finding a useful item. That's a stupid argument. And "item switching or other powers that allow them to manipulate the game based on knowledge of rooms." applies to town just as much as scum. And as there are MORE town then scum, us knowing it's location has greater impact then them knowing it.

Room choosing is a first come first serve thing, meaning we will ALWAYS have the upper hand. If you're afraid the scum's chance of finding a "good" room has increased then you better be the first person to grab a room key tomorrow.

[Korlash]

I'm here I'm here... just... busy... >.> But I'm dead in a couple other games so I should be giving this one attention again in no time... Not right now... <.< But soon... maybe...

Who else but Korlash! Giggity Giggity...

[Korlash]

Holy shit... what did I miss...

[Korlash]

Anyways, I'm lurking in this game because I have to read 8 or so pages. None of my other games require a read up. I have 5 min spurs on this site every now and then so I can post a quick post every now and then in those games. Takes me more then 5 min to read up sadly.

But that's cool too, I did have a connetion to AFC so my lynch isn't totally baseless. Plus after my failed PR I'm not much use to town tonight anyways. Still hoping I get time to readup today though. If not... well thanks for saving me the time!

[Korlash]

Kor and Arm are lukring more and more as it goes on.

Statements like this are just stupid... you're either lurking or your not... As time goes on you either continue to lurk, or you stop.

hey korlash I see you over in the theme park, why won't you play with us?

Because I'm trying to avoid you like I did in the last game we were in together where I was scum and lurked the whole time. Wait no... I didn't lurk in that one! Man good thing no one cares about meta huh...

OK I've seen Korlash actively avoiding this deadline thread, while posting on other non-deadline games. That is the ideal scum strategy in this situation.

Ideal scum strategy? Not to me. I can't ever remember a game as scum where I intentionally lurked for any reason. I put too much effort into my games as scum to resort to lurking.

Hey Kor, how about a sum-up of who you've found suspicious from what you have read? And what's that thing about the PR? I wasn't told about any harm in screwing-up.

No? I realize we had different PRs but I assumed the consequences would be different. Might want to read it again and make sure. If you honestly weren't told any consequences what was the point in the PR at all?

I think we're over deadline, BTW.

When is, was, the deadline anyways? I wasn't even aware we had one. >< Stupid me...

As far as a sum up goes... I have nothing. The most I have done with this game is glance at it every now and then when I remember I haven't posted in it. (much like I did today)

My wagon was quick to form but if there is a deadline theres nothing saying it HAD to be scum run. I still think shaft pushing me as lurker scum contradicts the game we played together but that was a long time ago and I suppose his argument is "situational" and so meta wouldn't really have a part in it. I think if you honestly weren't given a PR bad condition then a Farside-you pairing sounds pretty good. I still like Farside-scum from yesterday because, that's about all I can remember reading... and uh... that's about it really.

You can't lynch a lurker and expect him to come up with a viable sum-up last minute you know. Be happy you even got this! But I'm cool like that... <.<

[Korlash]

EBWOP:

No? I realize we had different PRs but I assumed the consequences would be different.

I think i was torn between saying "Didn't think would be different" and "Did think they would be the same" and ended up combining the two. Should read "I assumed the consequences would be the same."

[Korlash]

Yeah that's why I mention it on the off chance scum took me out town didn't lose much. Ha ha ha see how that plan worked out! ;_;

[Korlash]

Didn't... Didn't mention it... Man I know I usually miss letters in words but I seem to be missing a lot of words lately...