Mini 679 - BSG: The Basestar (Game Over!)

[Knight of Cydonia]

Hey Elmo.
I'm willing to bet Cylons are scum as well, actually.
Can anyone give me a brief sit-rep, other than the fact we have, for some reason, performed a near mass-claim on D1?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Just from what little I know about the series, really.
I would say that scum are Cylons, but maybe not all Cylons are scum, if that makes sense. We might have some rebel Cylons amongst us, or people like Tigh who know themselves to be Cylons but remain loyal to the survivors. There are, after all, two factions of Cylons by the Season 4 cliffhanger, so we have some Cylons from Cavil's faction, and some from Natalie's faction.

[Knight of Cydonia]

so we have some Cylons from Cavil's faction, and some from Natalie's faction.

Jeez, how loudly do I have to breadcrumb things? Surprised no-one picked up more on the fact that I said there were definitely two Cylon groups. I'll put it out there for the idiots.
I'm a Cylon Centurion who has had the telechepalic inhibitor removed, and I'm allied with the Cylons. In my role PM it states that I aim for the peaceful unification of Cylon and Human by discovery of the Final Five, and that I can check one Cylon's make and model during the game.

And for this reason - I want all other Cylons to claim make and model. NOW. Because, If I'm affiliated to a Cylon group that wants to join up with the humans, and I can check make and model, that means we have anti-town and pro-town (like myself) Cylons.

ALL CYLONS, CLAIM MAKE AND MODEL NOW. FAILURE TO DO SO WILL BE INTERPRETED AS A MAJOR SCUMTELL.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Really? Funny, that, since all number twos are, AFAIK, part of Cavil's faction. Who want to destroy what remains of humanity, and boxed (resulting in the destruction of) every Number Three except D'Anna Biers, who now leads the Cylon group I'm a part of - the ones allied to humans.

Vote: Farkshinsoup

until you can give me a damn good reason not to.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Okay, fine - no more Cylon claims, I'll just go out tonight and find out myself. Shame it's one shot.
I think, at this point, lynching Fark seems like a damn good idea - if only to test my theory that we have Humans and D'Anna's Cylons against Cavil's Cylons.
I will state this again - not all Cylons are scum. Heck, I am one, minus the inhibitor which blocked free will. Number 2's are almost certainly scum - I don't think there was a single Number Two in D'Anna's faction, even at the very start of the Cylon Civil War.

[Knight of Cydonia]

*facepalm* this is what I get for not reading properly.

unvote

and apologies.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm happy to lynch Grimmy for lurking if nothing else comes up. Would still rather lynch based on scumminess, but a Grimmy lynch would still be preferable to a no-lynch.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Actually... hang on. Five claimed Cylons. I'm a Centurion allied to Natalies/D'Anna (forbiddan)'s faction. Fark claims to be a Number Two, and forbiddan claims to be the last remaining Three... I'm seriously thinking Flask of Pestilence and MacavityLock for scum now. Assuming Fark and forbiddan are telling the truth - two scum seems a bit light, so I'd assume we have another scum who is lying about being human, or Grimmy is the 6th Cylon, and 3rd scum.

Vote: Flask of Pestilence

.

[Knight of Cydonia]

A certain detail tugs at my mind:

Furthermore, the Centurions are unable to distinguish one copy of humanoid Cylon from another.

I don't understand KoC's distinction between "make" and "model". But I am wondering precisely how a centurion would be able to gain information about a humanoid cylon.

His ability is confirmable, though. Hmm. What would that even mean?

I said I was allied to Natalie's/D'Anna's faction because in my role PM, it stated that I sought the peaceful alliance of humans and cylons - and the only cylon faction that has wanted that is Natalies/D'Anna's faction.

By "Make" and "Model", I assume that would mean I can differentiate between the Significant Seven, The Final Five (if any are present here), and between the various copies - which might suggest that there are multiple copies of some numbers.

Why did I claim? I felt it would be best to get my ability out in the open, so that I might have more information from people's reactions about who to use it on - I don't want to waste it, because it's one shot.

unvote; Vote: No lynch

because Grimmy has finally turned up, Flask has gone some way to explaining what I initially thought was a conflict of claims, but could be possible, and I see no other case that merits a lynch.

[Knight of Cydonia]

You did have pressure on you. I specifically stated I would take it as a big scumtell if a Cylon DIDN'T claim make and model. And that was your reason to do so - to try and avoid a Centurion iris-scan.

unvote

for now until I can think properly - I'm spitting out a mouthful of blood from my wisdom tooth breaching my gums as I type this, and it's a little distracting.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Also, Fark - it seems like you've gone through the whole day so far just putting votes on to get people to talk, or putting them on and taking them off pretty damn quickly as soon as even a mild retort looks like coming your way. Explain?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Okay, I'll bite on this.

Vote: Frakshinsoup

[Knight of Cydonia]

...Like you, maybe?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I certainly didn't get any details about other Cylons - I just have to go out and find one.
Fark, your seemingly dedliberately obstructive language is just mindfucking, and it's getting annoying. Please stop.

[Knight of Cydonia]

iamausername - I'm not going to answer that, and stop fishing for info on my role.
Fark is still a better lynch than Macavity.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Elmo - much as I hate to bring meta into it - my meta is ultra-weird. Ultra-weird =/= scummy, though. Do try and remember that.

[Knight of Cydonia]

If it makes anyone feel any better about switching to Fark from Mac - I'm scanning him. You can have your answers tomorrow.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm scanning Mac.
No lynch is a very bad idea.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Everybody, stop right now.
MacavityLock is a Number 4 - I just used my Iris Scan.

unvote; Vote: MacavityLock

For those not in the know - that means he's part of Cavil's faction.
DIE SCUM DIE

[Knight of Cydonia]

Please, for the love of God, people, lynch Macavity before deadline.

[Knight of Cydonia]

If I'm lying, lynch me tomorrow, by all means. But I'm not. Macavity is a Number 4. Aligned to Cavil's faction.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I hadd to confirm with the modd - I initially thought my power was night-scan, but it turns out to be day-scan.
As I say, if Macavity turns up town, feel free to lynch me tomorrow. But I'm not lying, he IS a number 4, and he is scum.

[Knight of Cydonia]

...What?

It's simple. Lynch Macavity today. He turns up scum. end of.
Alternatively, lynch me today, find out I am a one-shot day-scanner, then lynch Macavity.
As a role, I have expended my usefulness, and am now essentially another townie.
If I have to die to prove my worth, and Macavity's scum-dom, so be it - my task would be fulfilled.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Very well. Let me help the knife slide home, hmmm? Make the plunge a little easier.
Just remember this, when you finally lynch me - MacavityLock is a Number Four. He is dangerous to the alliance.

unvote; Vote Knight of Cydonia

[Knight of Cydonia]

unvote; Vote MacavityLock

As you can probably tell from the tone of the post, I was more than a little depressed last night. Back to full happy sparkly pink fluffy cloud mode now.

My role stated, and this is as close as I dare go in a paraphrase, that I am A Cylon Centurion who had their telenchepalic inhibitor removed, and that I am indebted to the Cylons who did so. I seek nothing more than the peaceful unification of the remnants of humanity and Cylon.

I scanned Macavity, and was sent a PM which simply stated MacavityLock is a Number Four.
I'm amazed people think this is a gambit. Assuming a fairly normal mini setup, we have 2, possibly 3 scum. Scum cannot afford to make a 1:1 trade-off this early in the game. If I was outing Macavity D3 with no scum lynches, I can understand why this might come up, but on Day 1, in a Mini...
I'm also amazed that people who actually publicly stated they believed my claim are now turning around massively as soon as I call scum on someone. I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS A DAY-USE POWER. I had to check with the mod when it was used.
MacavityLock needs to die. End of.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I would not be remotely surprised if KoC is gambiting. From what little I know, that would be perfectly consistent.

Show me one example of me making a gambit like this.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I believe the episode is "Guess What's Coming to Dinner?" Direct from BSG wiki:

Afterward, she returns to the her basestar and expresses her fear that the humans will not allow them to have the Final Five and go their own way to a Two and an Eight and proposes that they take hostage as insurance after destroying the hub.

On the baseship, Natalie believes that the Colonials won't give the Five to them as promised. She suggests a backup plan of her own: Take hostages after the attack to ensure they get what they want.

...
forbiddan - I don't love her play, and I wouldn't be surprised to find her scum. But, I'd say if anything, it would be non-traditional scum. Here's the stuff: My PM indicated that my faction had found Number 3 before all of this went down, but that on her return, she had become unstable. I think it's more flavor than game knowledge, but my read of this was that it was unlikely that she was mafia, but that if there was an SK in this game, it would be her. Honestly, I doubt it, but I thought it was worth holding back for at least a night.

Okay, first things first, Natalie never actually took a hostage. D'Anna Biers did, sure, and even executed them, but Natalie NEVER took a hostage. Talking =/= acting. So, we can discount your two BSG Wiki quotes right off as a pile of crapola.
Skipping past the rest of ML's "thoughts" which are generalistic OMGUS and weak feelings with no commitment or evidence behind anything, this attempt to implicate forbiddan sits REALLY badly with me. It seems like ML is trying to line up a lynch after his own death.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Macavity - can you offer any explanation, excluding unconfirmable bus driver/ target switchers, as to why I might have been given a Number 4 result on you?
If not, then I suggest we hammer.

[Knight of Cydonia]

So, does anyone want to hammer and cut out three hours.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I think Simon is probably a Mafia Jailkeeper role - since Simon was responsible for the Farms used to create (unsuccessfully) Human-CYlon hybrids - and hundreds of people were imprisoned.
Suspecting fark's "Toaster" claim, since, AFAIK, that's a Colonial nickname for Centurions who aren't yet self-aware.
And camn - I think I mentioned in my full-claim that I was a Cylon allied with the Cylons (not the Cylon Mafia), but for the life of me I can't remember if that was before or after Fark said that.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Vote: Rishi

for now, based on the claimed block and his terrible jump on me yesterday.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I think that, if we have any other protective roles, we need them to come out now - that's the only way we can build on Fark's claimed block of Rishi.
It almost looks like D1 again - one of them is probably lying, and is scum - it's simply a case of picking the right one today, and hoping. I believe Fark's claim for now, and I don't like the fact Rishi chainsawed for ML on my wagon all day.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Why only an FoS, Grimmy?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Plus, (and this makes Fark looks less scummy, to be honest), he was expressing suspicion on Fark just because he scanned ML. If he was suspicious of Fark, why didn't he scan Fark?

Umm, if you look at what I was doing prior to my ML reveal and lynch, I was voting Fark, and I actually said that I was going for a Fark lynch and a ML scan - because at that point, I still though my ability was submitted at day and results were received at night.

Now, here's an interesting tidbit. Who else is on my wagon because I had "weak reasons" for attacking him?

Um, no, I'm also voting you because I feel a little better about Fark now, although not entirely sure, he's claimed an RB on you, which means that if he is lying scum and you're town, he's dead tomorrow anyway, and personally, I think your reasons for voting me weren't just weak, they were craplogic - voting for the player you thought was slightly more town instead of the slightly scummier person?
Not to mention the fact you're trying to twist a post from Grimmy stating V/LA into a declartion of intention to lurk. It seems like, now that you've been RB claimed and are coming under fire, you're just trying to take anyone, for anything, as long as you live another night.

[Knight of Cydonia]

There's a strong possibility that KoC was bussing his buddy.

I have yet to see any evidence provided to imply that I was buddy-bussing, or indeed any decent case against me that isn't meaningless conjecture so unless anyone wishes to provide some, I suggest you give up on that front. I wouldn't actually mind if you were accusing me properly, but you've completely failed to give any evidence, no matter how twisted, not just of this buddying, but of me being scum at all.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Because there was no night kill? We already have a RB claim against you from fark, and I wanted to see if we were going to get a counter-claim - if we had, I'd have probably been more wary of Fark, but as it is, you're already No. 1 on my scum-list.
And I didn't choose to ignore the issue, as you put it - I just ceased asking for a claim. And I didn't ask for all power-roles to claim - I said:

I think that, if we have any other protective roles, we need them to come out now - that's the only way we can build on Fark's claimed block of Rishi.

which was essentially asking for any counter-claim/claimed block of Fark. So thanks for trying to misrep me in order to save your own skin - as if I needed more reasons to string up scum.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I still think Rishi is scummy. I don't care about role claims - the RB and no-kill, plus his big ol' chainsaw for his scumbuddy ML, and his determination to call me out for bussing with no evidence whatsoever (notice that, again, he failed to provide any evidence of me bussing, instead trying to misrep me as role-fishing when I merely said that any counter-claim should come forward).

[Knight of Cydonia]

Rishi, could you respond to KoC's post 712?

This.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Again, Rishi, you're interpreting my requests for specific claims/counter-claims as requests for mass claims. Asking Cylons to claim make and model would have helped me work on who to target my ability. As it is, I didn't get that info, but I got lucky on ML.

[Knight of Cydonia]

And now you misrep your own posts. As I undderstand it, your main problem with me was the fact I rolefished and asked for claims - perhaps not the smartest thing to do, in hindsight, but still - now you're claiming that rolefishing isn't the main point of your argument?

@KoC
a) How does this lessen Fark's claim? Fark could easily have RB'ed Rishi-town OR Rishi-scum with OR without a Doc.
b) Does Doc claiming ensure Doc death? Almost always.
c) is his death worth YOUR peace of mind re: Fark??

a)I didn't ask specifically for a Doc claim. I asked for anyone who might have a claim that contradicted that of Fark's.
b) Yes, it does, but no-one has claimed one, and also, see a).
c) Again, I didn't ask for a Doc claim, so your mis-representative focus onto Doc claims specifically is pointless.

And how am I saving my own skin? My lynch is nearly inevitable at this point.

Emphasis on 'nearly'. Are you honestly telling me you're giving up with more than 2 weeks to deadline? Stop trying to turn yourself into a martyr before the lynch is even close.

After people agreed it was a bad play, you IGNORED the issue. I don't see the difference between saying that you stopped asking for a claim and ignoring the issue.

People agreed it was bad play. I stopped doing it. Just because I didn't specifically post "Okay, I'm not asking for claims any more", doesn't mean I ignored the issue - it just means I didn't try and blow it out of proportion, like you are. It was bad play, I stopped it, end of.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Rishi's 746 was aimed at me, camn, AFAIK, and I addressed his points.
WHy are you so determined to help Rishi out, and to direct his questions at people they aren't aimed at, camn?

[Knight of Cydonia]

WHy are you so determined to help Rishi out, and to direct his questions at people they aren't aimed at, camn?

The first part of this still stands, camn - why so interested in keeping Rishi alive?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Well, I'm pretty damn happy right now.
One thing that did have me wondering though:

Right now I'm asking myself what is more likely: that anderson is our scum, and got rb'd, or that the remaining scum chose not to submit a NK, hoping that anderson would be mislynched. That would mean leaving me alive, with the possibility that I might rb them tonight. It would also, if kison is telling the truth, mean that they would be exposing themselves to an investigation last night, and possibly one tonight (if they chose to kill me and were not rb'd). Does a gunsmith get a "dangerous" result on a Godfather?

I don't entirely know why, and at this point in the game we don't really need to jump at stuff like this, but this just gave me an off feel for some reason. It's like he's running though his own thought process as scum, presented from the point of a theoretical Godfather or final power-role scum. Also:

There has to be some kind of power role on the scum side, and I don't think we've seen any yet.

I'd go so far as to say Simon would be a close fit for a Mafia Jailkeeper, and Sharon might be a godfather - since she was Cavil's No. 2. Unless Cavil himself is here, Sharon would make sense as a Godfather-type role, IMHO.

I'm ambivalent about mass-claims, since I've already claimed, and expended the usefulness of, my role. I think a mass-claim could be a good idea, but I wouldn't be surprised if scum had water-tight safeclaims that could only be contravened by my ability, if I had used it on them, or Kison's ability (if they fake-claimed a non-dangerous role).
I'm not so willing to lynch Anderson on Frak's RB tonight, but it's certainly something to think about - Anderson has kind of slipped under my radar to some extent - does anyone know if this fits scum or town meta for him?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I don't like no lynch. I mean this - I really don't like no lynch.
Grimmy - I don't see it, so I suggest you come out with it, rather than spouting cryptic bollocks at me.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'd think that, having had two scum lynched, outing one personally, I'd be with Grimmy, anderson an Camn on the clear list. Unless you want to accuse me of some wild gambit.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Vote: Grimmy

pending explanation/result.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Grimmy, if that kill goes through, you are so dead.
Elmo - I fail to see how Grimmy can't be scum.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I can see a 1 scum mason, 1 town mason gig.
After all, several of the un-aware Cylons had relationships before their Cylon programming awoke.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Vote: Grimmy

until this shit gets sorted out.

[Knight of Cydonia]

As a Cylon, I was specifically told that I seek "the peaceful unification of humans and Cylons". The Cylon Mafia are Cavil's faction - the Cylons are Natalie/D'Annas faction. It is NOT a Cylon v Cylon Mafia v Fleet game, as far as I am aware. So why you're trying to push that, I don't know, camn.
You're not confirmed masons, anderson? Then in that case, why didn't you say that instead of riding along with Grimmy?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Kara Thrace makes sense as naive.
As does a 1-scum, 1 town masonry - even if anderson didn't know that Grimmy knew what he was.
Grimmy lynch today, please.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I would guess that scum send their kills in the day, just like most power roles apparently have to, and that they were going to kill Fark anyway... so... why would Grimmy kill him... in the words of Neo - "Woah".
Okay, Anderson, then Grimmy. Way I see it, one of them is scum. TOday or tomorrow, we end it.

unvote; Vote Andersonw

[Knight of Cydonia]

unvote

SHaron Agathon was Cavil's lover after she left Karl, and she was sabotaging the Fleet due to latent Cylon programming long before she was outed as a Cylon, and then joined Cavil's faction.

VOte: Grimmy

If anderson is telling the truth that he knows Grimmy to be Sharon Agathon, then I'm happy to lynch Grimmy. If anderson is lying, however, there will be hell to pay tomorrow.

[Knight of Cydonia]

My vote remains until Grimmy explains.

[Knight of Cydonia]

You feared being nightkilled for revealing that you're a Cylon? I find this hard to believe. Real hard. I'm a Cylon, and my allegiance isn't "to the Colonial Fleet", it's to unifying the rebel Cylons and the Fleet. Which makes me suspect this is a false claim, and that you are indeed a Cylon - Cylon Mafia, that is.

unvote, Vote camn

until you full-claim, and I get an explanation from Grimmy, at which point I will decide. Right now, I could lynch either of you - you for lying; and Grimmy for that absurd day-kill.

[Knight of Cydonia]

And for that reason, I suggest we lynch the lying camn. Breadcrumbing on thematic knowledge? Why? WHy not just crumb the role normally?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Weren't there some "evil" Leobens knocking around? I vaguely remember one of them screwing around with Kara Thrace and screwing her mind up even more... someone with more theme knowledge might be helpful here.
For now, I will

unvote

but if we have no other choice, I would advocate a Grimmy lynch to prevent a recurrence of this Cylon programming - in the show, it was activated more than once, and I don't want to "assume" it's one shot only to see another townie dead tomorrow.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Yes - you're assuming a lot of people to be clear for vague reasoning still (too scummy to be scum? Too outrageous a claim?*), and it seems that, conveniently, all the lynches you want to line up are claimed pro-town roles, or yet-to-claim players. D'Anna, for instance, would be fairly likely to be a pro-town leader of some kind, since she took over when Natalie died. Leoben... well, I'm really unsure about that, since Leoben could be screwing with Kara, for instance. But since there are "good" and "bad" Leobens in the series, I wouldn't lynch on that alone yet. And saying "if no-one dies, we lynch Elmo"... it almost seems like that scenario I think Fark was thinking about yesterday with anderson - how do we know you're not the last scum (assuming 3 scum, which would be normal for a game this size), and you won't just withhold your kill to make Elmo look like scum?

*No claim is too outrageous. I survived for two days in Sci-Fi/Fantasy Mafia by claiming 1-shot bulletproof vig (Samwise Gamgee) as the Mafia Godfather (Sauron).

[Knight of Cydonia]

Assuming you are town, of course. I'm not entirely sold there.

[Knight of Cydonia]

THe problem isn't "was your lie harmful", the problem is that you lied in the first place, camn.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Yeah - it didn't work for Nixon, and it's not gonna work for you, camn.

Mod - can the scum withhold kills?

If you never ask, you never find out. If we do get clarification on this, should be handy.

[Knight of Cydonia]

And only scum should fake-claim all the way. Or, indeed, fake part-claim.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I want an FL PBPA as well. I'm thinking either camn or FL for when I get back from holiday (see sig), but I'm not going to drop a vote and leave it for that length of time.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Wow, I get back and you've already lynched forbiddan. Not exactly surprised... at least this way I have a night phase to read up.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Huh. I wouldn't want to guess what forbiddan is until the night scene. I'm heavily reminded of a nightless game (see the StrangerCoug quote in her sig) by her twilight behaviour, but hey. I'm kind of ambivalent about this lynch, since I had no real part for or against it while absent. I can see cases for and against, but neither of them struck me as being fantastic.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Either camn or Kison is the final scum, IMHO. Kison more likely, because he's the one being blocked, camn close behind.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Ugh. It's just like playing on Epic Mafia. I disagree with a no lynch because I don't like no lynching, but it looks like I'm the only one who does.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Only the scum know that, since only the scum know whether or not they're camn or Kison, and whether or not they can NK, or if they've lost the ability somehow. So in all honesty, I have no idea whether or not it offers the best chance, since like all other townies, I am not in possession of the full picture.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Is that hammer? If not,

Vote No Lynch

Just in case, but I still worry.

[Knight of Cydonia]

If we don't have a dangerous today I'm going to expand it to a HoS on you two.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Perfect town win.
I think this setup might be a little overbalanced against the scum, but when we're as awesome as we have been, no-one can stop this town.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I had a fake claim in Fantasy/Sci-Fi Mafia. Only other game I've seen with provided fake-claims.

[Knight of Cydonia]

This should be in the Scummies for best Town Performance.