/confirm
Mini 702--Serum & Steel(The rust has settled/Game Over)
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
I think you are too happy-go-lucky.Timeater wrote:Ok SpyreX, at least I know what kind of player you are now. Extremely, extremely cautious - to the point of getting in the way of good play. ^_^;
This is not a streaming conversation. We are playing a game on a message board. Spyrex's opinion is just one of many. Feel free to say as much as you please on any subject you can imagine without letting the opinions of others influence you. (note that the author doesn't do this, but it's up to the perogative of the player.)
I dont disagree with point 1, but you're shooting down ideas before they even have a chance to come to fruition. I dont like this. You're not giving Ort (or myself) a chance to even talk about things without casting us in a negative light.1.) Talking about a plan in the future isn't a good idea. The plan you setout isn't good for a few obvious reasons.
a.) Considering how important the Myco is, we have to assume that Metal status is independent of alignment.
b.) Considering our mod is going to let us give our PMs, we have to assume that scum have safeclaims or we could just win right now.
--- thus, this plan was a bad one.
I think you are too happy-go-lucky.I'm a firm believer inbonding until those bonds are brokenor the "best buds" philosophy as I call it Anyone can be the cold analytical sniperkid, not granting any case of WIFOM in any situation, only relying on hard lynch evidence, never trusting anything anyone says no matter the situation.
I think you are too happy-go-lucky.Thats simply not my style and not the way I wish to go about playing most games. Especially this one.
I'd also like to hear the definition of "safeclaim."Can you, in your own words, define what a safeclaim is, and how it would apply to this game?
WIFOM
Do you really think I'd be so bold to claim as early as I did if I was scum? If not me, then who? Everyone else is vanilla.The potential of you being scum outweighs any chance of me being pro giving it to you today.
I am against ANYONE claiming unprovoked. This is just something I've learned by playing this game. I've played with groups who spontaneously claim like you do, but in the environment of mafiascum such is anathema to most of these players' style, and they'll attack you for it (evidence: Spyrex)Its a bad idea for more metalliods (if they exist) to step forward in hopes of getting the serum. I dont understand your confusion.
I think he's saying let's stick to the better plan of "Myco scummy folks (esp. if they survive a lynch), serum pro-town folks, and nobody claims unless they're at L-1."
With that logic, a Metalloid will never get the serum because you will have Myco'd them to confirm them. That makesMetals are a damn nice benefit to the town but they are such a detriment in scums hands that yes, I will vote to Myco ANY metal that comes out that is not confirmed.ZEROsense.
Let's ask the mod before going with that plan.
We can get a better scumhunting process going in the Serum/Myco stage before the lynch stage. Thats what should obvious.Instead, we should have done what is obvious - play it out like a normal game and, before lynch, decide who to give the serum to based on their play.
I would suggest voting for me in hopes that an alignment reveal would be possible through the process.I'm not sure what you're aiming for with this. Of course more than an average number hit town because there are more town then scum. Would you suggest no lynching in its place?
Duh. Only stupid people are fearless.
I am really starting to take your hostility towards the idea of a town-aligned metalloid getting a power as just pure fear.Giving the serum to a metal is a bonus. Not a right.
What?Extreme, un-adulterated scummy fear.
For the record, I agree with everything Spryex has been saying. Am I scummy too?Your first response to my claim was to myco vote me. What does that say about you? Rationalize it however you want, I think that was a big error on your part. I'm watching you.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
TonyMontana wrote:
Lol, wut?ortolan wrote:There was a reason I kept it quite, which I have already given. Namely that it would encourage scum to act as un-scummy as possible in order to attract the vote.
Because without the plan, scum wouldn't bother? [face_palm]
??? Do you get this?Wall-E wrote:I've done slightly scummy things as town to avoid the mafia's NK before.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
I think what they're saying is, "Why would you serum, lynch and mycosynth the same player?" to which, were I you, I would reply, "It's a random vote, dudes."geraintm wrote:
ok, teh colour thing went badly, what else was there?Timeater wrote:^ The amount of fail in the above post is just beyond comprehension[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
Off the top of my head:and if anyone has a better idea on how to distribute the serum, we could really use it
1) Randomly. The odds that any one player is town are ~78%. If we went down the player list assigning the serum (or rolled a die each day) we'd have good odds of creating several pro-town power roles versus the scum's potentially only two or three.
2) Mass PM quote. I dislike this idea for several reasons, but it's got its own kind of appeal in this situation.
3) We elect someone D1 by seruming the most pro-town looking player. That player chooses the next day's target, and so forth for the rest of the game. This method has an obvious flaw in that if the scum ever got their hands on the ball they'd proceed to power up their whole team.
4) Do what Timeater did. I agree with gremwell that TE seems very town, but I'm not anxious to gamble.
5) Nobody gets the serum. We mycosynth the hell out of the town and play a normal game of mafia.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
Concerning the Blinkmoth Serum: The Blinkmoth Serum is a substance that activates the inate abilities of a person. All players at the start of the game are vanilla. To gain abilities, they must be imbued with the Blinkmoth Serum. You may only vote for one person to get Serum, though. See Concerning Voting for how to vote for a player to be imbibed with serum.
Serum only lasts one day/night cycle.
If a player is given serum twice, they must continue to get serum, or they will die at the beginning of the next phase.
Bolding mine.
This gives the town the opportunity to have three kills every two days.
Mod: Do metal players die of blinkmoth serum overdose?[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
The rest of your analysis I can at least ignore.
This, however:
I'm just going to point out to everyone that TE has an obvious bias in SOME direction, so take HIS analysis of the situation HE created, and his advice, with a grain of salt.Timeater wrote:3. If you do believe I am town, as some of you have said, you should be voting to give me the serum.
- Why? There simply is no better candidate at the moment.
(I can name two others I'd rather give it to.)
The facts presented at the game's outset are that a metalloid cannot be killed in anyway; the problem with giving someone else the serum is that they will be killed night 1.
(What if the blinkmoth grants metal status?)
It is simply illogical for a scummer to try to get the serum today because later tonight they will need to make a nightkill. There would be no way they could save themselves from a lynch the next day when they turn up alive, because the scum would logically kill the person with the power, the biggest threat, nothing can stop them.
(WIFOM)
It just makes no sense for a scummer to go after the serum at this point in the game. They would have too much explaining without alot of excuses tomorrow. Everyone except the metalloids are vanilla!.
(This is the most sensible thing you've said to date.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
3. Assuming we choose someone to give the serum to every day via random die roll until the game ends.
The Upsides
- Statistically speaking, the chances are good a townie will get the serum multiple times.
- Supplements the town with abilities where they have none. Not counting the metalloids.
- Makes the game more interesting.
- The game is played how the mod intended.
- There is no chance of the scumfactor (the fact that there is a minority of players who can influence the town subtly) causing the serum to fall into the wrong hands by design.
The Downsides
- There is a chance that we might give the scum an ability, strengthening them when we dont need to. Also the game potentially gets alot more complicated, allowing for some room for trickery about roles, powers, abilities, and whatever.
And I think I listed three others, but I don't remember any of them being spectacular.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
Porkens wrote:This whole business of """""""random""""""" (notice all the quotes) serum assignment is like communism (only works in theory).
You know this how?
That's fine and dandy, but if everyone else disagrees with your sentiment, do you plan to maintain that stance and refuse to help us?Porkens wrote:I will not now, nor will I ever, vote for anyone in this game (including myself) to get powers.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
I'm putting it forward as intentional. I thought of doing the same thing in the hopes that I'd get the reaction Spyrex gave from someone, but decided not to thinking it would be a little transparent. Apparently I was wrong if I'm the only one who thinks this.Are you seriously putting this forward as a scumtell?
Then again, I am a cripplingly paranoid genius so it stands to reason I do things the opposite way of everyonesaneelse.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
... Communism.Porkens wrote:
Which part?Wall-E wrote:Porkens wrote:This whole business of """""""random""""""" (notice all the quotes) serum assignment is like communism (only works in theory).
You knowthishow?
What do you think? I'm talking about plan 3. How do you "know" it won't work?
That's anti-town.Porkens wrote:
Yes.Wall-E wrote:
That's fine and dandy, but if everyone else disagrees with your sentiment, do you plan to maintain that stance and refuse to help us?Porkens wrote:I will not now, nor will I ever, vote for anyone in this game (including myself) to get powers.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
Timeater wrote:Wall-E what do you think about post #117?
Doesn't that just break the whole random thing?
Can't be helped. No matter what we do with the serum, the scum are going to know who got it. I'm willing to bet the mod compensated for this fact somehow. Probably a high number of metal townies? I have faith in Natirasha.Timeater's post 117 wrote:Adding a downside to 1 and 3:
- If a metalloid does not receive the serum, it is very possible the scum can/will just kill the serum beneficiary the night a townie recieves it.
I really wish I knew how many metalloids there were in the game. (Not fishing. Really.)[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
Can you give me a well-reasoned argument why I should agree to your plan? I am asking because if you give me reasons I can agree with I might change my vote for which plan I will follow.Porkens wrote:
I, obviously, don't think it is. I will do my best to prevent distribution of the Serum.Wall-E wrote:
That's anti-town.Porkens wrote:I will not now, nor will I ever, vote for anyone in this game (including myself) to get powers.
Your wording and timing leave me suspicious. That is all I'm saying. It was closely following Spyrex's statement of intent which hinted that he would assign the serum to people who did not necessarily try to gain it.Porkens wrote:
You admit to considering intentionally decieving the town about your motives and opinions in order to get the Serum. And you admit it freely.Wall-E wrote:I'm putting it forward as intentional. I thought of doing the same thing in the hopes that I'd get the reaction Spyrex gave from someone, but decided not to thinking it would be a little transparent. Apparently I was wrong if I'm the only one who thinks this.
Do you wish to further interpret that SpyreX and I planned the exchange from the begining?
Either way, your interpretation of my action is wrong.
Both assertions are ridiculous. I challenge anyone to prove otherwise. The term WIFOM sounds applicable to this scenario, in my opinion.Porkens wrote:
You say we are Mod's chosen people. You say we would be doing Mod's work. You say it's Mod's intent. What you forget is this: Mod is not on our side.geraintm wrote: but i don't think the mod wouldn't have put it in there if it wasnt for power reasons, he must think we need it, so saying never i donthink is a good idea eitehr.
I gave my own argument already. I expect the same from you on your position. Again, not an attack. I seek only enlightenment.Geraintm wrote:That said;
Me either, and I hope those of you that don't agree with me about not using the Serum DO argue why we should use is and who should get it.Porkens wrote:I dont mind people campaigning for the serum, whether it influences me one way or the other depends on the person
Mod: Thanks for clearing the air! See below:
It's interesting how the trinity of vote categories seems to divide the town's attention considerably, yet I feel we've gotten more done by page seven than in any other game I've played on this site. I've played games IRL and in chat format, and the major component of those games is trigger-quick thinking. This community adds a whole new layer of logic and careful data processing to the achievement of victory, but this game has felt quicker and more intense by far than any other I've played here. I think the culprit is the addition of two new goals for the players to achieve each day; it causes a psychological sense that more is being done in the same (mechanically) amount of time. Please don't post to comment only on this paragraph, folks![url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
I'm not acting on plan 3 until I hear the upsides of the other plans from their supporters and more ppl have weighed in.
It's true the dice are truly random and can't be manipulated, so let's all roll some #s and use one at a time until we need new die. That would mean the next roll decides it, to prevent bias.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
The only way to know when it's time to drop the randomserum plan will be when ANY information becomes available. I'd say by the time the first roleclaim is made, or a very strong push by any player, to the point of all but claiming in order to get someone else lynched.
Just my thoughts.
Day ends with lynch. At twilight, a picosecond before the lynch, mycosynth concensus (if any) is resolved, and so is serum concensus. If no concensus is reached on mycosynth or serum, it's skipped, and nobody is mycosynthed or serumed. It's possible to achieve one concensus without the other, so we could agree who should get serum and not have enough votes for mycosynth. In that case, someone would get serum and nobody would get mycosynthed and then someone would die (or not, if metal), and then we go on to night.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
Gertainm isn't posting often enough on the rest of the site for me to say his lurking is malicious.
Do you have stats on Seraphim's "active lurking" to back your claim? I will vote along with you if you can prove it/reference how you know.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
Let's see if anyone agrees with what I said. If anybody disagrees, I'll read their argument why I'm wrong and defend my claim.Timeater wrote:How is that an OMGUS? My reasons are totally legitimate for feeling the way I do about SpyreX. Just dismissing what I have to say and calling me a newbscum isn't helping either, Wall-E.
Since, you know, you've done nothing to do so. I think it might be more WIFOM from you anyway, so color me unsurprised if you don't.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
So you're for the plan as long as the recipient claims their power?
There's something off about that, but...
In light of the fact that it's public knowledge that the player DID receive a power, I think you may be right in this case. I'm going to throw support behind this suggestion.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
You seem to be the Yin to Porkens' Yang on this issue. I think the middle ground has been my random serum plan. If you can convince me why we should listen to you on the serum's distribution, I'll join your cause.I would rather the serum be used and that assigning not be random. Giving the serum to inexperienced or uninvolved players is increasing the chances that it is not used optimally. For instance (using non-players), I as a cognitive being can understand why Mith should get a PR instead of Gimbo, assuming that I can't see any alignment differences between the two. A die cannot, and should not be in charge of making that selection.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
I think it's likely 2 of 3 of the scum are metal. I have nothing to back this other than "guess the mod" metagaming. CF Riot put my thoughts on that into better words:
I agree with this assertion wholeheartedly.CF Riot wrote:As far as I can tell, there are no side effects to throwing a non-metal player into the mycosynth. As such, I think a mycosynth majority should happen every day. There will be at least 1 metal scum, I'm sure of it.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
I think we're still, at this stage, using the random serum approach. We can decide what to do if something new comes up, but for now I'm all for a random serum assignment.
ortolan: Did you see my point about Seraphim's postings throughout the site? I grant you your own point about the timing, but I think the timing was just bad.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
I disagree with the meritocracy and removing lurkers from our random serum pool.
Scum is an arguably more exciting role than vanilla townie. I think vanilla townies are more likely to lurk than scum for this reason.
The meritocracy idea leaves us open to manipulation by the informed minority, and the purpose of the random serum d1 is to test the waters while minimizing risk to the town. I think I'd like to see Illumina get the serum D1. I think it's interesting that the random serum plan only started getting shot down AFTER we'd decided on a target for the serum, so there's always that angle. All in all, I want us to random serum today and switch to a meritorcacy tomorrow when we have a better idea of what we're dealing with re: we'll have one person who got serum'd and can tell us just what exactly it does/how we can best use it properly.
So.[url=http://s45creations.wordpress.com]I own a design studio[/url] :)-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008
-
-
Wall-E Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: July 15, 2008