Mini 671 - Dwarf Fortress - Game Over!
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Pesco47
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Pesco47 Goon
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Pesco47 Goon
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Pesco47 Goon
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Hang on right there, reborn. Just because a title says newbie, it means nothing and can not be used to justify a suspicious action. Are you also going to give me a free pass?
I could say you're scum because you're not a newb and pushing for faulty logic.FoS reborn, upgradable to a vote once Tuber clears up the OMGUS.-
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Pesco47 Goon
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Pesco47 Goon
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Pesco47 Goon
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Really. W.T.F.?!?
Lynch the both of you for being goblins (behaviour-wise) and all the dwarves are better off.
Actually looking at the arguments presented beyond the emo, Timeater is coming out scummier. I'm not giving Cyber a free pass either, because a cool-headed scum can just be playing it easy while you tangle yourself up some more.
Vote Timeater
FoS Cyber-
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Pesco47 Goon
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Yes, I did mean that Cyber may be scum playing the voice of reason in my statement there.
There's still some unfinished business with Tuber it seems, so let's not pile on the votes too hurriedly.
@iLord: I signed up on Sally years ago, but only became active when I saw there's mafia there from your sig. I have some reserved opinions about the crowd there.-
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Pesco47 Goon
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Roffman voted you because you weren't being helpful to town. That's not a random vote.Timeater wrote:Yo,
@Pesco
Its is easy to vote for me isnt it? I had two votes (two of which are basically random) already, and had a little scruffle with Bob - out of the two of us you would rather vote who already has the votes, enabling an easy bandwagon. Nice.
How were any of my posts against Bob scummy? Would a scummer really stick out his neck like that, not back down, not let someone get away with blatant unprovoked personal attacks, not let a confusing post go unchecked?Coheed wrote:I also agree with pesco on this one that Timeater is the scummier looking of the two in that last babbleFoS Coheedfor shameless bandwagoning.
All your posts before the fiasco with Cyber has nothing in terms of useful information, just fluffy cotton candy. Getting all worked up at Cyber's FoS indicated to me that you were being extremely jumpy for something that small. Instead of making him remove his FoS by actually giving good content, you made a huge distraction. These reactions make you scummy, failing that, a liability to town if you are innocent.
Lastly, I'm calling your WIFOM here. I'll take the wine in front of me.-
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Pesco47 Goon
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Indeed very subjective. Can we get something not so biased, because it's mostly "Give me a free pass, this is just me" kind of material I'm seeing here.Tim wrote: Anyway I believe Ramus asked what makes me "not scummy" and Cyberbob "scummy". My opinion in this will be very subjective, but I guess thats to be expected.
I'm not scummy because:
My first 'real' post was a tiny scumtrap. I do this in about every game I play.
I was the first and only person to immediately scrutinize Cyberbob's shotgun attack post.
Subsequently defended myself from personal attacks, while having the gall not to let Cyberbob get the last word in.
Saved the town the time and effort by anticipating the wagon and claiming.
I'm trying to be helpful (when not being called dumb)
Cyberbob is scummy because:
In his first post, he managed to spin suspicion onto four people. Mariyta, Myself, Tuber, Reborn. That just doesn't sit well with me. Its safe for a scummer to make a one broad attack post he can refrence back to and claim scumhunting.
He refused to admit that one of his responses to me made absolutely zero sense "The point I'm making is that you were telling him that his method of ending random voting was faulty despite it more or less having been over for some time already." When confronted about this he got extremely defensive and resorted to personal attacks. (I'd like to admit that I attacked him personally too and called him an asshole, only after he called me an idiot 2x)
"Drop the tone and I'll drop the insults." - to me, that just speaks volumes.
I'm willing to forget about it for now, but seriously be careful about confronting Cyberbob on anything. Expect to be called names.
CoCam's vote while citing my reasons is also suspicious to me. When iLord pointed out that my own reasons for voting when given in my vote post, I realised I didn't actually say much about why I was voting. CoCam must be a real psychic if he could figure out my ideas which I hadn't put into words yet.
FoS CoCam
Stop trying to outguess the mod. The mod always wins.'m not blatantly fishing. I believe in game as flavor based as this that scum would need to have been given safe claims. However, if timeater's role matches my description of a cook, then i'd claim as well. That way, we'll have two cleared townies, making the game significantly harder than scum as they either have to waste night kills going through us and protective roles, or keep our votes active in a smaller pool of suspects.
Alternatively, he could claim differently to me, in which case one of us should be lynched, and you get yourselves a scum for the cost of a townie. Fair trade i think.-
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Pesco47 Goon
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On a reread of this, Tim giving out the same claim as you doesroffman wrote:I'm not blatantly fishing. I believe in game as flavor based as this that scum would need to have been given safe claims. However, if timeater's role matches my description of a cook, then i'd claim as well. That way, we'll have two cleared townies, making the game significantly harder than scum as they either have to waste night kills going through us and protective roles, or keep our votes active in a smaller pool of suspects.
Alternatively, he could claim differently to me, in which case one of us should be lynched, and you get yourselves a scum for the cost of a townie. Fair trade i think.NOTclear the both of you as town. The only surety is that you have the exact same roles.
Some gaps I'd like to point out:
Tim and Roff are on both scum, a falsified confirmation.
Tim and Roff are opposite sides, Roff claims difference (since he's going second) and gambits on getting Tim lynched first.
FoS Roffman-
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Pesco47 Goon
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Pesco47 Goon
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Pesco47
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Pesco47 Goon
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Rereading from the very beginning again, this post actually sounds like Tim was voting Cyber because Cyber didn't find Roffman scummy (admitted as a ragevote here. I want clarification on why Tim has such tunnel vision against Roffman,.with no metagaming as reasons
I intended to pay closer attention to the Tuber discussion in my read, but the size of the flamewar proved too big for me to pick out much.
What I have noticed is that Tim and Tuber have been somewhat mutually defensive of each other. They read each other as pro-town and declare the same people scummy. Something is not quite right here.-
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Pesco47 Goon
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You gave a pretty bad example to give us an impression by. The broadest definition of your latest post reads as 'No action can make a person scummy'.
iLord's logic is not perfect, but definitely not 'wrong'. He gave a generalised example of what made your recent moves scummy, while you defended by stating exceptions to the rule, very situational exceptions too.
The way you've defended yourself is pretty flailing-scummy to me.
Unvote, Vote CoCam-
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Pesco47 Goon
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Pesco47 Goon
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Pesco47 Goon
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It'd be more odd if he turned up scum. Why do you even need to post a line like this? Feling the same vibe as everyone before me on this one.Timeater wrote: Odd that Cyberbob should die and turn town.
FoS Tim
I feel that he's making all the right plays for a townie, doesn't clear him in any comfy way IMO. His speculation at being NK'd is probably the only bad thing he's done. Keeping an eye on him wouldn't be a bad idea.sekinj wrote: RE: IL - I find his play too choreographed.-
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Pesco47 Goon
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As far as I can remember right now (without rereading), Tim hardly answers any of the questions put his way.
I asked why Tim had a grudge against Roffman: unanswered
KoC asked for some explanation just above: unanswered
Roffman's role fishing: refused to answer, at least some reason was given.
If you intuitively think I'm scum, then something must have triggered that reaction in your subconscious. We'd like to know what it is.-
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Pesco47 Goon
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Timeater wrote:
And really - when have you needed full genuine proof to lynch someone? Are you saying its impossible to make a case against you without full proof? Are you saying that gut feeling and intuition are irrelevant? You'll be hard-pressed to find cases in mafia of absolute proof. Proof is not the basis of accusation.
Vote: PescoTimeater wrote: Pesco rubs me the wrong way and pings my scumdar, so he gets my vote - not much more to it than that. I dont really feel like being the convincer or town attack dog this game. I'm content to lay back and let iLord, Ramus or whoever do that in this one. I've really only got a problem with you and Pesco at the moment. Lashing out or focusing my efforts?
We can't ever get absolute certainty in lynches before the flip, but that doesn't mean you can just throw reason out the window. I have my share of gut and intuition that I use, and to me, that kind of stuff is way too meta dependent to go applying in games on a big forum like mafiascum.Timeater wrote: Lol, you're so condescending. I think that might have something to do with it. Listen, I really dont feel like heavily investing in every post in this game. I just dont want to play that way in this game. I'm currently playing a few other games where I am playing that role and I just dont want to put up with it here because a few people lack initiative.
'Proof is not the basis of accusation' you say, are you confused or something? If someone has proof, they can make a solid accusation. If they have no proof, their case gets shot down.
You want to stick a vote this far into the game, people want to hear the reasons behind it. Here, you're just voting with no reasons given and further state that you don't feel like putting in any effort, let some other players do all the work.
Don't like my attitude? That's quite some irony coming from you. I'm willing to bet that there's more than a lynching majority that feels rather annoyed at how you're playing this game right now, be they town or scum.
Now for some more constructive discussion:
I find it strange for you to have found Roffman irritating and suspicious before the game even got serious (i.e. during random voting).Timeater wrote:As for this apparent grudge claim you've invented, I have no grudge - just irritation and suspicion for him[Roffman]doing scummy things (eg "you're scum because you should be reading the thread" and "tell me your role bla bla role fishing".
This one smells like WIFOM loaded crap. Reading into it as a bluff, I'd say that if Roffman is scum, he's got a safe-claim as a cook and hence the need to fish. This conclusion is a bit contradictory to the exchange between Roffman and Tim, where it seems that both of them do know what a cook does. In that case, I'm still a bit uncomfortable with accepting that 2 players can have the same role and be on the same side.roffman wrote:I'm so intent on fishing on the particular role of cook. I have information that means it would be a relative safe claim for scum, and want to check that you aren't scum. The absolute worst case scenario is that we confirm each other, and town lynches us anyway to confirm the other. Then scum has to waste a night kill going through doctors/hiders/role blockers/trackers or have a confirmed town alive. Best case is that your claim conflicts with mine, and we lynch you cause your scum.
If it weren't for this, I'd have voted Tim again in agreeance with Sekinj. Roffman is doing more IioA compared to Tim's plain anti-town behaviour.
Vote Roffman-
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Pesco47 Goon
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I'm just going to throw out my read on this whole cook-roleclaim.
When Roffman first said he wanted to be a lightning rod for NK, I felt it was WIFOM. Tim's reaction of saying he doesn't want to play that way, gave me the feel that they had abilities. My thoughts concluded that they were cops with sanity issues (multiple occurences of the same role on one side). This told me it would be WIFOM thrown at scum, I could accept that to be risky town play.
The problem now arises that they're claiming vanilla. Every team has vanillas, be they town, scum, cults, third party etc. Bob was also a vanilla, yet his role-title was animal trainer. One cook flipping vanilla is not going to clear anyone else.-
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Pesco47 Goon
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reborn537 wrote:Timeater has just flipped town in DS9 mafia, a game I've been watching. As much as I dislike meta, I'm forced to admit that his play in these two games has been pretty much consistent, and therefore many of his scummy actions are based off of his playstyle....
If you didn't care for meta, why did you read that game and get convinced by it?-
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Pesco47 Goon
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So you were misguided. I can forgive you for that.iLord wrote: Overall, the case against Pesco was a lot weaker than my vibes indicated.
@ iLord: I'd like to know why you seem to be prepared to write off just about everything Tim has done? From a purely analytical view of his playstyle, it's not exactly the best thing to convince people with and you say that it hasn't harmed town. How has Tim made any benefit to town then? How do you keep reading him as town?-
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Pesco47 Goon
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iLord wrote: Could you please repeate your questions - I don't seem to be able to find them.
I've been very co-operative and answered your questions, now you do the same.Pesco47 wrote: @ iLord: I'd like to know why you seem to be prepared to write off just about everything Tim has done? From a purely analytical view of his playstyle, it's not exactly the best thing to convince people with and you say that it hasn't harmed town. How has Tim made any benefit to town then? How do you keep reading him as town?-
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Pesco47 Goon
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Is that a soft-claim for the hammer? Interesting to note also, that you weren't visibly on the votes for Roffman.sekinj wrote:@KoC - oh, and I just realized it was you who put him at L-1... but meh, any of us could have done it.
Although not much of a tell from the results of the NK, I'm suspecting Sekinj to be responsible for iLord's death (due to being the only one who tried to make a case against him, afraid of his scumdar perhaps?).
In all, I think Sekinj did the hammer or called the NK. I'm doubting the likelyhood of doing both because that places quite a lot of power in one player's hands.
Vote Sekinj-
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Pesco47 Goon
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It was a personal opinion that compelled me to vote Sekinj at the time, pretty much intuition based. The most outstanding point is where she calls iLord for 'Too Townie'.andersonw wrote: Pesco47: Do you think sekinj is a better lynch than KOC right now? Why?
Answering which one is the better lynch, I feel it needs not be restricted to just Sekinj or KoC. I feel Tim is also a valid lynch for today because his first post of the day is an OMGUS vote with no logic behind it whatsoever. Calling out soft-claims is fine, but they are not solid enough to be basing votes on.
Choosing between Sekinj and KoC, your reasons for suspecting KoC are only a bit better than mine for suspecting Sekinj. Our mileages vary.
Reading over Sekinj's reaction to my vote, I think she genuinely has no concern about it. There's not much we can do to each other based on the available posts, I'm prepared to leave this for another day.
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When CoCam was lynched, his role was in blue and also labeled 'not a threat'. The town's win condition is when all threats are eliminated. I conclude that all blue roles are pro-town, green represents either scum or third party.-
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Pesco47 Goon
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Pesco47 Goon
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Pesco47 Goon
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Claus wrote: iLord -Miner- Was killed night 2Claus wrote: CoheedCambria -Kobold Thief - not a threat- Was lynched Day 1.
CoheedCambria09 wrote:I am a thief. I can take roles away from players. Its an anti town power role in my opinion
Blue is definitely town aligned, guarantee of being a power is not certain. Therefore I'm very sure that green is third party of some sort.Ramus wrote:
I can't. What if he's just a power role?Pesco47 wrote:Can we all agree that Roffman wasn't town aligned then?-
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Pesco47 Goon
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I'm trying to do a PBPA on reborn, but I come across a bit of a problem.He's made no posts of substance at all this entire gamealong with being absent for long periods of time (lurking null tell, but it's still a strike against his current standing).
Explain yourself, link us to where you have done any good scumhunting. We're on the third day of play and for someone to have that much trouble coming up with scum suspects,Unvote, Vote Reborn-
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Pesco47 Goon
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If we're at LyLo, the mod would have told us.
Massclaim or not, do we even know what each role name does? If someone comes up with a roel you've never heard of and makes up some half-assed ability, who's to know if it's real?
Reborn still avoids my question of when was the first time he posted ANY REAL SCUMHUNTING. Don't give us quotes, I asked for links.-
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Pesco47 Goon
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If there was a reql danger of LyLo, massclaim will just end up as mass misdirection. Mass scumhunting is still the best route to take, unless you're someone who hasn't done it at all this game and can't find the scum label on your own forehead.
What policy makes it so definite that we need to drop everything and start giving scum more info? I'd like Reborn to answer that without citing meta along with providing us links to proof of himself doing any scumhunting. Btw, real life is no excuse for being scum.
Wether or not LyLo Notification is given in mini themed games, that varies in every game. If we're unsure then weask the mod if it's LyLo right now.
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* Who knows?
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If there is a majority on going for a massclaim, I can claim. I just don't see why we should have to claim when we can lynch obvscum.-
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Pesco47 Goon
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Reborn: LyLo or not, we need to lynch scum instead of demanding for claims. You do no scunhunting and have made no contributions to clear yourself up or answer my question at you. This far in the game, you are clearly scum. You can't even present a credible case against me that you have to resort to insults. It's tough to find people to pin scummyness on when you are scum, so learn from this game and play better scum next time.-
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Put some proof behind your words here. Moving my lone vote on you to Reborn is wagon hopping? Putting scumhunting as a higher priority than massclaim avoiding it? Being generally scummy by what measure?sekinj wrote:Vote: Pescofor hopping wagons, desperately trying to avoid a mass claim, and being generally scummy.
Reborn still can't put out any proof of serious scumhunting on his part and doesn't answer my question from here.
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There's our massclaim. Who wants to claim Doc? Let's remember to have fun guys-
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Pesco47 Goon
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Pesco47
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Anything else you haven't taken out of context yet? Looking for meta to justify a play style fails because it can't be proven. I've condemned using meta to clear a person and I've been true to what I say because I haven't used meta to call a person scummy either. I treat every player as a stranger and base my arguments on how they're playing in the relevant game. My widespread suspicion is because the remaining players haven't done enough to make themselves townie to my reads.sekinj wrote:
PBPA
Onto my claim, I am Amost Othosstinthad, Weaponsmith. My ability will take us out of LyLo even if we lynch a townie today. Bring on the misrepresentation.
Let's have Reborn come clean with us. You wanted the claim, you have it. I've matched your bet and now I call your hand.-
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Pesco47 Goon
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Pesco47 Goon
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Let's use your meta-logic for a bit here. I find it very unlikely that there are so many vanilla ice-creams in this shop (Reborn, Roffman, Tim, Sekinj). You said it yourself that Claus likes to give abilities. 'Lynch all Liars' is a better policy to be using than 'IT'S LYLO! MASSCLAIM OR DIE TIME'.reborn537 wrote: Claus likes to give a lot of abilties, but some of them are quite weak and barely even count as a "power" role.-
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Pesco47 Goon
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Wow, 5 vanilla. Isn't anyone strawberry, mint or choco-cuppacino, with whirls of caramel and sprinkled with hazelnuts flavoured? There are definite liars in the ranks of vanilla.Knight of Cydonia wrote:I am Vabok Vabokzedot, a peasant. Vanilla townie, basically.
I don't believe reborn's claim at all, seems like he only used the threat of being a special to keep us from lynching him.-
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Pesco47 Goon
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Pesco47 Goon
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Compared to the number of vanillas that have popped up, my claim is a whole lot more comprehensive than anyone else's right now. The role-fisher himself just can't justify his vote on me when my power can do that much more to help town. Is anything short of posting my role PM not a proper claim for you? I don't feel like getting mod-killed for your convenience.Pesco hasn't claimed yet, despite being chosen to go second.
My ability does not stop someone from being lynched.-
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Pesco47 Goon
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