Mini 2260: Achromatic Calamity || Game Over

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FIRST

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VOTE: Pooky

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My dear are you attempting to infer that my approach to the logic previously presented to myself which I have so lightly critiqued in a rather carefree fashion as we are barely 50 nay 40 post barring your continual self quoting is inadequate for purpose here?

No tea for you. Your invite to my table is being handed to the teapot with Lady Grey inside it. How the good Lady fit inside it is quite the dilemma but alas as are most things we find here.

the logic of it just seemed like the less potentially relevant aspect of the post to me like if we are functioning under 'all posts are ai' which is kinda necessary for this stage of the game as you say we are only 40 posts into the game et cetera then it seems like that is more likely the ai part rather than the forced logic

I don't believe all posts are AI, or that pretending that they are is necessary.

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Anahit, I'm confused by your stated pronouns, is "they" ok?

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VOTE: Mad Hatters Tea Party

I don't like this whole exchange. Feels disingenuous to be focusing so hard on Ahri and trying to force anahit to have a proper read based on a single RVS vote.

Also I don't want to spend the whole game trying to parse walls of purple prose

This is a pretty strange read, I think anahit does feel marginally townier than Mad but I got the impression that anahit was the one forcing basically the entire exchange.

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My dear are you attempting to infer that my approach to the logic previously presented to myself which I have so lightly critiqued in a rather carefree fashion as we are barely 50 nay 40 post barring your continual self quoting is inadequate for purpose here?

No tea for you. Your invite to my table is being handed to the teapot with Lady Grey inside it. How the good Lady fit inside it is quite the dilemma but alas as are most things we find here.

the logic of it just seemed like the less potentially relevant aspect of the post to me like if we are functioning under 'all posts are ai' which is kinda necessary for this stage of the game as you say we are only 40 posts into the game et cetera then it seems like that is more likely the ai part rather than the forced logic

I don't believe all posts are AI, or that pretending that they are is necessary.

I strongly disagree with this post!

Which part?
I think the first part is fairly obviously true, the second part is definitely debatable but in my experience I don't find that trying to force reads leads to anything productive (different from forcing reactions)

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The first part is true. I think more posts are AI than people want to believe but it's not literally all of them are AI.

Forcing stuff can make for really good interactions. It's just impossible to generate "bad information" in mafia if the interpreter can make the interpretations and is cautious with signal to noise. Like the law of entropy (the law of entropy backwards?) or something

we don't have to agree on this to win this mafia game obv

Happy to agree to disagree, I also don't think it'll be useful to argue about it.

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Anahit, I'm confused by your stated pronouns, is "they" ok?

i would prefer 'she' if you'd like to rely on a single default pronoun for me -

ani would be my preferred abbreviation of anahit, if anyone feels the need to abbreviate for any reason,

she is my preferred pronoun for anahit, if you'd like a pronoun for referring to the entity that signs into the account anahit and so forth i guess i would prefer it, the space between et cetera, but she is also okay for this purpose as well,

Noted, thanks!

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I agree more posting is good for town, although one big part of it is not wasting time talking about parts that are less relevant.
I'm not entirely sure Mad Hatter's talk so far is genuine, but I'm not discounting the possibility.
Don't find it likely scum would draw that attention to themselves early, but it's possible.

Conclusion: I think I should keep an eye on the Hatter

VOTE: EdensFlame

This is a scummily noncommittal take

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You expect me to be able to commit on another players alignment on page 3?

No, I just don't think town is as likely as scum to caveat every statement.

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I also found it salient that Edensflame's post was super hedgy but it's almost so excessively hedgey it doesn't count as being scummy the way hedging generally is? And I don't directly see scum benefit.

The scum benefit is to not make waves.

I don't think hedginess in excess starts becoming town, and I did not like Eden's defensiveness about it either.

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ive definitely been that hedgy and got that defensive over it as town before. perhaps this is an unreasonable extrapolation -- just because i hedge as town, doesnt mean it's not a legitimate tell for most players -- but yeah ive always been skeptical of [especially early-game] hedginess as a "real" scumread.

what's more questionable to me is the way that their [rather inconclusive] conclusion is kinda phrased as an fos, but not accompanied by a vote. it's not like flame doesnt believe in frivolous votes, they did an rvs.

idk i still kinda wanna wagon greeting rn, but if that's not happening, sure, flame could be fun.

I think it says a lot that before posting the "conclusion," I thought that the point of that post was a town lean on hatter, but the conclusion is that we should keep an eye there.

Maybe you post like this as town, but as Cakez said, Eden is not actually saying anything at all of substance in the entire post.

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I agree more posting is good for town, although one big part of it is not wasting time talking about parts that are less relevant.
I'm not entirely sure Mad Hatter's talk so far is genuine, but I'm not discounting the possibility.
Don't find it likely scum would draw that attention to themselves early, but it's possible.

Conclusion: I think I should keep an eye on the Hatter

VOTE: Edens flame
This post is basically a bunch of words that means nothing

it is like, unless i was focused on a partner of edensflame's (so somewhere in {ahri, mad hatters tea party, greeting(?)}) then i think edensflame more or less telling me to try not to get distracted/focus on relevant things/not waste time is probably +town

right outside of the partner being focused on that seems kinda unlikely to come from mafia to me? does that make sense

I think this is an exceptionally poor (not scummy) read to read that as town from Eden, especially since Eden does not go on to say anything of value or provide a suggested target for any kind of focus.

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I think this is an exceptionally poor (not scummy) read to read that as town from Eden, especially since Eden does not go on to say anything of value or provide a suggested target for any kind of focus.

do you do you do you

think edensflame is trying to appease you?

With the recent townread on me?

It's possible, I had it as thinly town because I would have expected a retaliation more often from scum.

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I agree more posting is good for town, although one big part of it is not wasting time talking about parts that are less relevant.
I'm not entirely sure Mad Hatter's talk so far is genuine, but I'm not discounting the possibility.
Don't find it likely scum would draw that attention to themselves early, but it's possible.

Conclusion: I think I should keep an eye on the Hatter

VOTE: Edens flame
This post is basically a bunch of words that means nothing

it is like, unless i was focused on a partner of edensflame's (so somewhere in {ahri, mad hatters tea party, greeting(?)}) then i think edensflame more or less telling me to try not to get distracted/focus on relevant things/not waste time is probably +town

right outside of the partner being focused on that seems kinda unlikely to come from mafia to me? does that make sense

I don't that that's what Eden was saying though?

hmmm

i guess to me, it was like,

i say that posting is good for town, then edensflame says

posting good for town

IF

focused on relevant things

which like, i very often get distracted and have a very difficult time telling the relevant and not relevant things apart,

so it seemed very possible to me that edensflame thought that was what was happening here and was saying to me

yes posting good BUT try to rein it in a bit

which seemed to me more likely to come from town or from mafia specifically partnered with someone i was focused on

because why would edensflame want to refocus me if mafia in any other situation

What do you think the chance is of mafia deciding to never make pro-town plays in a game?

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I still think anahit sounds towny.

Mad Hatter's posting style is coming across as very scummy but it's hard to say how much of that is because of the constructed nature of the RP.

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VOTE: dwlee for doing nothing

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VOTE: Galron

I'll be honest I don't have a read on Galron but I want to put my name next to Isis because she has great taste in clothing therefore she must be making great choices and yes I know this doesn't make any sense but I want to see my name next to hers at least once ~.~

I don't think she can roll red against me twice in a row so I'm going to take my chances.

Yes I know that's not how probability works.

I also don't really care >_>

I have a read that if Pooky was disgusted at how badly they played in a recent game as scum, they wouldn't give this kind of terrible reasoning to sheep a vote as scum here.

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I have a read that if Pooky was disgusted at how badly they played in a recent game as scum, they wouldn't give this kind of terrible reasoning to sheep a vote as scum here.

pooky was upset with how they played as town in the game pooky was referring to; isis and i were the scums

i think pooky was saying i should not want to feel like pooky will solve the game if town!pooky because he did not play well as town in that game, which yeah i like said that's probably an unfair expectation

but it is like,

i obviously didn't feel that way in the aforementioned game as i was a mafia,

and if that game was paused on the final day and left up to pooky to correctly identify the mafia team then i think there is a pretty good chance pooky would have caught us

it's just that the experience of the previous days put us in a position for pooky to be miseliminated for the win there

and! i really really like to have hope

In that case my read is bad and maybe the reverse.

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the constructed nature of the RP

What's this?

I mean that everything feels very careful, which I think is scummy.

The opposite of someone like anahit, I feel like the stuff she is saying feels very unscripted and natural.

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Sorry guys, but busy atm but hopefully will get caught up soon

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Ahri's stuff from page 18 sounds very carefree in a towny way

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I'll make a claim if it helps. ...

I am a Cult-Aligned, Godfather Kool-Aid Afficianado. I scan as aligned to the town win, and I enjoy various Kool-Aid flavors, so long as they are a single color.

This is a really weird claim.

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I agree more posting is good for town, although one big part of it is not wasting time talking about parts that are less relevant.
I'm not entirely sure Mad Hatter's talk so far is genuine, but I'm not discounting the possibility.
Don't find it likely scum would draw that attention to themselves early, but it's possible.

Conclusion: I think I should keep an eye on the Hatter

VOTE: EdensFlame

This is a scummily noncommittal take

VOTE: dwlee for doing nothing

I think I will VOTE: Dwlee99.

Vanderscamp can you explain what you were thinking when Edens voted for me? Seems like you were scumreading Eden when they followed you to me and didn't comment on it.

What is there to comment on?

I voted you in part because my scum read of Eden waned and I wanted something else.

I don't tend to factor in other people's votes, especially pre-EOD D1 votes, when thinking about how I'm reading someone, because I don't assume that all my reads are necessarily accurate, and even if they are, bussing can happen.

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I don't feel very strongly about this game.

I'd forgotten a lot of my reads since a few days ago but I independently came to the same conclusion that Ana is town.


I think VOTE: Toogeloo is a good place to start because of the extremely strange claim.

What town says that they "scan as aligned to the town win"?

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I wanted to do something better than Greeting yesterday but I didn't really get back to the the thread. I think Dwlee would have been better than Greeting but Dwlee now seems like it doesn't solve much.

Onwagon scum has some currency given the day as a whole

VOTE: Toogeloo

I think Vanderscamp seems really townie even though I'm paranoid it's somehow carryover from my last game with him.

I think Vanderscamp is saying it's a joke claim but it's an awkward uncomfortable joke claim and I really like psychoanalyzy votes like that.

I townread you even more anahit but I don't understand all of your logic here as of yet

Yeah, I think it's likely a joke (if it's not it's much worse)

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Ahri feels non commital and like they are trying to fit in.
This isn't necessarily bad but something about the way they are going about pings me as off

Can you give a specific example?

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i got prodded. havent really read the thread at all, just skimmed some of the top of this page, apparently people(? maybe just two?) are scumreading ahri now. intuitively, i like this development, im curious what people think of what this says about maf placement across d1 wagons. is the general agreement two maf on greeting? regardless, i very much like the idea of one hiding out in pooky/ahri to just, avoid making a call on the issue. this is especially true if toogeloo is town, which. yeah. obviously im gonna need to come back to toogeloo.

i'll have, actual thoughts on the posts people actually made in, some number of hours, im taking a nap, big day. nice day.

Why would you think the general agreement is two mafia on greeting?

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I felt good about Cakez day 1 but I feel less good about him day 2, I'm surprised you're inverted Galron

What are you liking?

Pointing on the umpteenth reason to townread anahit seemed kind of more benefitting-to-scum-than-town to me

Well, see that's a problem because I really am not liking anyone other than anahit except for toogs, but that is tempered by their predecessor, and maybe Cakez.

I can certainly why someone with one town read benefits scum, but I can't tell from your post whether you think I'm scum because I have just one town read, because I have just one town read and I've mentioned that I townread her at least twice, because other people have evinced a town read on her and I just needlessly contributed to it or whether you're accusing me of scum-siding at all and I'm just inadvertently helping scum by throwing more laurel-leaves anahit's way.

I'm also wondering what intrigues you about fake pedits. As in whether you've just not thought of the concept prior to what you believe to be an inferred accusation of having done that or something else.

In addition, I'm curious as to why my read of Cakez doesn't align with yours.

And while I'm thinking about it, I need to look at the plist again to make sure I do, indeed, have just one town read because that may have changed. In particular I want to read Cakez because your mentioning of that read to me makes me wonder more things. And now that I think about it, I may have a better handle on this game than what I was thinking a few hours ago.

I've started feeling like you're town this day phase even though you were one of my stronger scumreads. I don't think you have partners in this game, it seems like, and your reads kind of align with mine some. You disagree about Toog but I can see the other direction on them too? And you feel uninformed enough.

anahit in like the next post is right that i was shading Cakez. The totality of the circumstances for him overemphasizing the townread is off, your mentioning it more than once is fine.

fake pedits intrigue me because I think I just straight up have never considered that you could fake a pedit that it is a thing you could choose to do. Just kind of like. "Wow actually you could play a Goblin Guide and block with it no one actually ever implied you can't do that but like oh you can do that wow" So yes when shiki implied it that was the first I've ever thought of it.

I don't get how you can get this from that post.

In particular, can you explain the no partners read?

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I don't know my reads are awful this game
Is Pooky openwolfing?

This seems like a fake take.

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I like the recent stuff that is happening.

I would kill cakes or isis but I have no idea.

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Null.

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I agree that it didn't seem like a hard guilty, but it's obviously based on something mechanical, and I agree that VOTE: isis is a mandatory kill today.

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VOTE: sircakez and this isn't close for me.


The people who did not vote on Ahri were Ahri, Isis, Cakez, and me.
The people who did not vote on Isis were Isis, Cakez, and Galron.



I definitely think it's a spot scum could have bussed, but I also independently read Cakez as the scummiest of everyone here, and the fact that he voted on neither mafia is really bad, I'll find the post I really didn't like from him.

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I don't know my reads are awful this game
Is Pooky openwolfing?

This one

I found it very hard to believe at the time that this was a genuine take

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I'm not sold on it being Cakez!

I think there's a decent chance it's Galron and I'm not willing to die on this hill.

But unless we're able to come up with a read on Cakez that he's playing out of his scum meta I don't think this is a slot we can leave alive for two lynches.

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I wanted to do something better than Greeting yesterday but I didn't really get back to the the thread. I think Dwlee would have been better than Greeting but Dwlee now seems like it doesn't solve much.

Onwagon scum has some currency given the day as a whole

VOTE: Toogeloo

I think Vanderscamp seems really townie even though I'm paranoid it's somehow carryover from my last game with him.

I think Vanderscamp is saying it's a joke claim but it's an awkward uncomfortable joke claim and I really like psychoanalyzy votes like that.

I townread you even more anahit but I don't understand all of your logic here as of yet

kind of weird thoughts on VCamp I'm scanning her ISO and I don't really understand how she arrives at this read of him

Do you think this kind of weird read would be more likely to be made on a partner, or as part of a read on someone she knows is town?

I do think you're town but I think you went into this iso with the idea that I was the scummiest, and you're looking at the interactions through that lens of me already being suspicious.

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As for why I dropped off, most of the play this game has happened when I've been asleep, particularly these last few days when we've mostly been in night and people have been getting quickhammered when I'm out of thread.
Especially since this game was not super interesting to begin with, it's not a scenario that's conducive to hyperactivity when I have one IRL day where it's day and then it's like three days of night.

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I think Eden and pooky are townier than Cakez and Galron independent of the voting.

I don't actually remember what my read of Galron has been this game, but I remember really disliking what Cakez was saying when Pooky was coming out with the "I have info about this game, we're town and winning" stuff.

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Did rereading of ISOs and I'm basically here rn:


T
EdensFlame
Cakes
Galron
Vanderscamp.
S


EF has some good moments in her ISO where she pushes Ahri before anyone else really does (631) - she feels genuinely curious and solvy at times - I liked her wagon analysis of tooges saying that Isis/Cakes were the most implicated in 822 and I think her dumbtell about "multiball" wasn't really faked per se, seems like a really weird thing for scum to make up.

SirCakes is a decent gap down from EF and really kind of interchangable almost with Galron - he's just not been the most active in the game which makes it hard to read his thought process but when he bursts in he does seem geniunely somewhat clueless in a way that doesn't make sense if he were plugged into a scum PT (727 795 827 906. Furthermore I think he actually had the belief that I was openwolf quickhammering Ahri-town when he wrote 871. The thing about Cake town is that he's just mislim bait in every freaking game because he doesn't ever take the time to play properly and I kind of think he'd give more of a shit about this game if he were like actually scum and possibly able to avenge his loss to me in Pokemon here. Like this clueless deer in the headlights bullshit I just see way more often from Cake!town.

Galron feels kind of disjointed to me throughout this game. He asks a lot of questions but I'm not really sure where he's ever going with them. There's very little follow-up and I guess I'm kind of missing the deeper layer of thoughts I'd expect to see from Galron. ngl the towniest line I remember from him is 811 which is a mood but like he doesn't really seem motivated to do anything about this.

Vanderscamp just basically kind of dropped off the face of the earth - there's some bad takes in here such as 579 soft defending Ahri that he never really follows up - he's basically feeling like frozen scum during d3/d4 and I think his popin vote on Isis is most likely the bus vote if there is one as she's more or less doomed with me/dwlee both signalling we want her eliminated and edensflame effectively putting her at e-1 . the mandatory comment felt kind of awkward and weird.

How was me saying isis being a mandatory kill awkward or weird?
I think it should have been pretty obvious.

I already disliked isis prior to ahri's flip, and then the guy who dies in the night was talking about isis being lock mafia.
There was a lot of talk at the time about whether or not it was a hard guilty, and it seemed to me like it wasn't, but it also seemed pretty likely to me that there was some kind of mechanical reason why the person (I don't remember who it was) thought this, and arguing with isis or whoever over whether it was a hard guilty or not was just going to be a distraction from killing someone who seemed very likely to be scum regardless of that.

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Cakez ISO is basically zero interaction with either flipped scum.
Not a great look.


Pooky is an interesting case because the information he gives is just wrong. Like plain just incorrect.

Do you mean his stuff about town winning two days ago?

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VOTE: vanderscamp

I thought it was Pooky tbh but I'll sheep the read.

Also, Galron, why are you sheeping the read of the person you thought was scum?

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Fair!

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Why do you think that Vanderscamp would bus Isis?

i don't know but I TR everyone else more

Vanderscamp just basically kind of dropped off the face of the earth - there's some bad takes in here such as 579 soft defending Ahri that he never really follows up - he's basically feeling like frozen scum during d3/d4 and I think his popin vote on Isis is most likely the bus vote if there is one as she's more or less doomed with me/dwlee both signalling we want her eliminated and edensflame effectively putting her at e-1 . the mandatory comment felt kind of awkward and weird.

I agree with Pooky's take here - they just feel like dispirited when they should be amped up with a double scum elim

The thing about Cake town is that he's just mislim bait in every freaking game because he doesn't ever take the time to play properly and I kind of think he'd give more of a shit about this game if he were like actually scum and possibly able to avenge his loss to me in Pokemon here. Like this clueless deer in the headlights bullshit I just see way more often from Cake!town.

okay in my defense I'm way too busy IRL for mafia right now and I kinda just want this game to be over because I can't give it what it deserves

If your stance is "I just want this game to be over," and you have contributed less than I have since the double scum elim, why would you think it's scummy for me to be "dispirited"? Why couldn't I just have whatever mindset you apparently have as town in this spot?

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VOTE: vanderscamp for above reasons

The only reason you gave is that I seem dispirited since the double scum elim.

I'm not super happy reading about a page of Pooky monologuing about why I'm likely scum but I think I've put more effort in today than anyone other than Pooky and I don't especially buy this as a reason.

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UNVOTE:

Let's make sure this is right.

Do you think there is any chance of Vander actually surviving today?

Why wouldn't I survive?

I still don't understand how anyone can read the game and think I'm a better elim than Cakez.

Why is the person who hasn't sounded towny at basically any point and did not vote on either of the mafia we've flipped not the mandatory kill for today?

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What is this guilty?

This is all Cakez had to say about the Isis "guilty" on the day we killed isis

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Like if you guys for whatever reason think that I desperately need to be killed at some point in this game, I would rather it be today than tomorrow if I'm wrong on Cakez and I'm just going to get autokilled in final three, but I don't understand why that would be the case.

I've responded to the points people have made against the things that I've said and done this game, and no one has responded to any of it.

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Cakez, I want you to explain why you read everyone on the game as town other than me.

It's obviously not impossible you're town and this is the case, but I want you to be held accountable for more than a vague "he seems disheartened" reason on the person you think is the easy kill.

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That hit on Ahri is making me reconsider vanderscamp

Can you also explain why you thought this?

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I'm going to feel like an absolute fucking clown tho if I hard defend Cakes scum from everyone and the dude wins someone take my keyboard away

What do you think makes Cakez hard town?
Can you summarise the points?

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I'm like 10% away from locking EF/Galron as always town and just fucking yoloing it.

I think this probably wins although it would be easier if you actually responded to anything I said and started considering it.

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like the way galron talks about letting down shiki is like exactly how I feel about letting her down if we like lose here and I'm p sure he can't replicate that tone as scum cuz like why does he even need to ?

plus the unvote on VCamp when I'm like thinking about hammer is so ++town I don't think Scum!galron slowplays that shit

I agree about the vote!

I disagree about the first part because it could be a genuine scum perspective too, unless the shiki stuff somehow only applies for town wins for reasons that aren't clear to me.

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I'm not intending to talk you into this, i don't know what I'm supposed to say when no one is responding to anything I'm saying.

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Kill me then if even the one person who doesn't want to kill me feels that I'm an autokill and doesn't even want to say anything anymore.

Just ask yourselves tomorrow how this actually came to happen that I became an autokill out of literally nowhere, and don't get Cakez get away with the nonsense reasons he's given for killing me today so far.

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I would also be keen to hear from anyone alive how I could have better communicated today and prevented this.

Because I've tried to defend myself and I think I've made a pretty reasonable case on Cakez.

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well played pooky,

i guess i do not really understand why you weren't automatically eliminated without consideration at five players, but it's not as though i succeeded at eliminating you day two,

and the pivot from 'i am playing like i

might

be a power role in order to prevent the mafias from finding the power roles' into 'bus partners when have to' into 'battle mode' was clean even if pretty !!!

I was automatically eliminated without consideration at 5p!