I'd rather play normally and then find someone pro-townish to boost. I think it's likely that everyone will get at least
Random
Bolded is an accusation.Skillit wrote: There are likely either only 2 categories, or 4. it seems presumptuous to assume that all mafia members would be in one category when everyone else falls into one of 2. I agree that people either have or do not have roles, but to assume that either all or no mafia have roles seems like it would require some extra information to assert.you don't...have extra information about the specifics of the mafia members powers...do you?
Denies that he accused her in the first place.Skillit wrote: the gist of it was that i was not trying to imply any kind of slant either way about E and that i was just trying to make sure that, if we were going to use her theory to frame the discussion about boosting, that it should be as accurate as possible.
Suggesting a massclaim shows that he knows something most of us don't. Either he's non-vanilla or scum as far as I know. His later posts don't really give me a slant either way on him, so I'm not really feeling the wagon.sthar8 wrote:I have a theory about the setup that does not conform 100% with electra's, but it is close. If I'm right, early massclaim might be a game-breaking strategy for town. Unfortunately, while electra's post does support my idea, I don't have enough evidence to be sure, and I can't reveal the reasoning without showing the scum how to mitigate the damage.
So, I'd basically have to ask the town to trust me on a huge risk, which I'm not willing to do without more concrete evidence. What I'll do instead is ask everybody a question.
Do you feel that massclaim might be a viable strategy at this time?
Okay, there's the answer of someone's question that I encountered earlier. Maybe people will call this more WIFOM, but I don't believe scum will fake an indefinite ability. Just seems weird.Electra wrote: @ iLord – I don’t know what kind of information I get, but I do hope it’s something cop-ish, and it certainly would be nice if I got scum out of it. :p And no, I don’t think I get some sort of benefit by being boosted earlier (unless I get the info as soon as I’m boosted? I assumed it would just be at night, but it would certainly be nice… I will ask the mod.)
Windkirby's Mini 675.Electra wrote: @ Incognito – Yup. I don’t think I know anything about anyone else. I just finished a game with sthar and skillet, like I said. I think the only other person here I’ve ever been in a game with is Crazy, but I forgot which one.
Weak attack, I've said it before, still saying it. It's really just going on an irrelevant point.Skillit wrote:people with, people without, and mafia.
Electra if the mafia aren't people, what are they?
There are likely either only 2 categories, or 4. it seems presumptuous to assume that all mafia members would be in one category when everyone else falls into one of 2. I agree that people either have or do not have roles, but to assume that either all or no mafia have roles seems like it would require some extra information to assert. you don't...have extra information about the specifics of the mafia members powers...do you?
If im being confusing on this just tell me, i get a lot of sass for that.
Uhh, what? It was an attack; youSkillit wrote:Jahudo - i had an answer all typed up but i got some kind of popup and lost everything and now in too angry to retype. >_<
the gist of it was that i was not trying to imply any kind of slant either way about E and that i was just trying to make sure that, if we were going to use her theory to frame the discussion about boosting, that it should be as accurate as possible.
What the heck is the reason for a semi-random boostvote? Are you buddying up or what?Skillit wrote:AlsoBoost: Incognitofor allowing me to indulge in more heroes chat. (really for making the effort to understand my point)
First paragraph I can agree, though I don't think it makes much difference any way we do it.RR wrote: I think we should definitely discuss boosting as well vote, no reason whatsoever to both make the days a whole lot longer and make the discussions unconnected. I think people's opinion on who to boost can help a lot with scumhunting, especially after we'll have a confirmed scum.
Vote iLord for trying to prevent this.
Also, boost Electra. Could be a scumgambit, but I think this is testable enough to make it worth our while. We're basically as unsure about her as we are about anyone at this point, and considering her claim boosting her will gain as more info.
Scum don't always provide false information, but yeah, I think I see your point now. I didn't before.RR wrote:What's more testable than information? It'll be very easy to find out if what she supplies us with is true or false as the game progresses. Definitely easier to test than the unknown effects of boosting anyone else,
Umm, what? I'll go back to the Open 94 scenario and ask what would you expect a townie to do in that situation? (And as far as I can see, Sthar's #62 is a good defense of this)RR wrote: I don't really buy you weren't noticing the stuff you wrote, this sorta panicky response looks like scum kicking himself for being suspected.
Unvote, vote sthar.
Since when are scum gambits ever easy? And vanilla in some terms can mean just "no active powers."iLord wrote: I'm wary of Electra - what she's doing is way too easy of a scum gambit for me to trust.
Additionally, didn't Patrick give us the vanilla town PM? It said nothing about powers after boosted. It'd be kind of odd for vanillas to be different from the mod example.
And the fact that people say that makes them ineffective! Wooh, WIFOM!iLord wrote:"Scum can't gambit on the first page" is exactly what makes such gambits effective.
I do like this idea. Seems the best way to keep our options open.iLord wrote:What I'm saying is that sure, we can start discussing boost targets, but not to boost anyone until we decided who to lynch. There, we can choose the best targets.
I don't believe RR ever answered this question... too bad, 'cuz that was the pivotal point of the argument.iLord wrote:iLord wrote:And if she claims to get an innocent?RR wrote:I'm not sure the info is as accurate as an investigation result, but if she does claim to have caught scum with this, lynching him is clearly the right move. If he turns town we'll just lynch her the next day.
This sounds overanxious, really. Especially since he [..]ed through the part where Electra claimed, you know, the important part that gave evidence that sheTDC wrote:And how would we know whether or not you fall in category 3?Electra wrote: 3) Mafia - if we boost them, they probably get things like investigation immunity or an extra night kill, or a NK that overrides doc/boosted NK immunity
So obviously, boosting Mafia is very bad and we should avoid doing it.
So to try to aid this, I'm going to put myself up for being boosted, and also claim-ish.
[..]
So that's my case, do what you want with it.
I really admire posts like this. Good perception and straight to the point. The second paragraph is a good thought, and I'd like to see Electra's clarification on that (if I come to that continuing my readthrough.)TDC wrote:TDC wrote:That's a fair point.eldarad wrote:And, as Electra said, for a scum to make that leap of faith about the existence or otherwise of boostable vanilla townies, or whatever, is pause for thought.Boost: Electra.
I'm not sure why ILord and RR are talking about guilties and innocents, when Electra's claim clearly said she'll get "information about the town", which I'd guess would be things like "There's X scum in the town" or "there are Y vanillas". Nothing she said suggested it's a cop investigation.
Skillit's last post reads like back-pedaling from a fairly contrived attack on Electra.unvote, vote: Skillit
And while I'm at itBoost: eldarad, I liked what he's said so far.
Yeah... I'm starting to think it doesn't really matter at this point. I can't really see anything changing that would make ElectraTDC wrote:Also, Electra is on "B-1". I think there's no harm in waiting a bit with the "hammer" until we have a better idea of who's going to be the lynch and who might be the second boost.
This seems like a town-oriented line of questioning. Not sure why.Incognito wrote: Yes, I read the link that you linked to and was able to determine who the character was and what the specifics were with respect to the character. But that's precisely my point: if you're saying that you think Electra just wants to be special [by being altered in some way, (in this case through boosting)], then doesn't that imply that you believe her vanilla claim? If it was a joke like you say it was, then fine but if it wasn't, I'd like to know why you seemed to readily accept her claim.
True.eldarad wrote: I'm fairly sure Patrick will have considered the impact of a massclaim when creating the setup, so I am sceptical of the claim that there is a game-breaking strategy.
I'd find this very scummy if I didn't already think he was town... crap.sthar8 wrote: "Tempted" does not equal "considering." I was teasing electra based on her most recent post, and announcing that I see some value in the Skillit wagon. For the record, I consider my vote to still be random, but I also like the results of it sitting where it is. I don't see anything that merits a true nonrandom vote yet, although there are a couple promising leads.
Excellent point, though I believe the rest of Incog's defense more than makes up for it.sthar8 wrote:This is manipulative and scummy.Incog wrote:I'll try and take it as a slight pro-town sign that you've called me of all people out on certain things when I've pretty much had absolutely nothing directed at me and have been finding myself trying to create my own content to get involved in.
In case anyone doesn't see what's going on here, in this quote Incog responds to lullaby's attack with "You're wrong to suspect me, but it's pro-town of you to pressure someone taking as little heat as I am." This isolates lullaby's view as minority and dismisses his attack by reminding everybody that no one is particularly suspicious of Incog otherwise. It also does some very subtle buddying, portraying Incog as a nonthreat or ally to lullaby, making him less likely to pursue Incog in the future, if it works. I've used this tactic to great effect as scum.
If this were representative of your total response to lullaby, I'd be voting for you.
Well, it's clear that there are some town roles in this game that aren't the vanilla role in the first post. So that alone would compensate for the reasonings in your post here.SL wrote:Boost electra
I think her post comes from a townie.
What skillet said seems superficial but on second thought I think it makes a good point, it's good to keep in mind that mafia may have abilities that are independent from boost to avoid reasonings based on wrong basis - ie: "X can't be responsible of action XXXX because X hasn't been boosted".
I don't like TDC's vote on him.VOTE:TDC
I didn't see Electra's claim as out of place, and I don't think you can make a general rationalization of how much information to claim. Different cases call for different measures.Jahudo wrote:I am against claiming and Electra basically stated the reasons against it. Scum will know what the boosted people can do and how best to approach them at night. I think we should go about things normally.
If someone thinks they should or should not be boosted they can say that before the lynch, but no specifics. It should be a combination of the candidate thinking they have a useful power and the group thinking they're pro-town.
FL wrote: Now as to my theory on the effects of boosting, I think it will work where any one-time roles will get a free use on that night, and any other roles will get an extra use. As far as vanilla's, I think information would make sense, or maybe NK immunity for the one night, which could be good for an almost lylo situation. As far as speculation on what would happen for the mafia, it depends on when the boost goes into effect, because if it is immediate i could see an extra NK or the ability to RB.
Yeah... I didn't want to make anything at that point... they were just some minor points. I've probably mentioned some of them in this post.FL wrote: Crazy: You say that you are getting scum vibes from TDC and RR, where do you think they are coming from, because you really haven't shown anything against them.
Well, there is a difference here. That point was from sthar, not from SL, who was the one attacking Incog. So I don't think it's quite the same thing.iLord wrote:Cases don't work like that - any points that Incognito defends well against count as null, not as benefits. They can't outweigh the good points in the case against him.
For example, if I said that Incognito was scummy because he formats his post and he didn't comment on Electra. Then if he completely blows the formatting argument out of the water, does that lower the value of the Electra point at all?
I haven't even read all of it. After the first post by SL and the first post by Incog, I just skimmed it.iLord wrote:Most of it or all of it?Crazy wrote:I'm thinking town. I disagree with SL's case.
Even scum could have just agreed with an option by then. The fact that she's hesitant shows nothing.SL wrote: 1. Incognito has yet to take a position on Electra, indeed despite multiple posts since the beginning of the game, he has not once addressed the Electra issue directly, preferring to ask peripheral questions instead.
I think this is scummy because assuming Electra is town, scum wouldn't know how to react to her post, and would want to gauge town's sentiment first.
Questions can't hurt the town. And I do think that most of her questions had some feasible point to them.SL wrote:2. All of Incognito's posts has 'look I'm such a good little townie' written all over them, but has yet to produce anything meaningful.
a. Ask 'soft' questions of doubtful relevance in about every post he makes, but doesn't seem to garner any insights from the answers he got.
It seemed like a real vote to me. I don't have a problem with the second part.SL wrote: 2. A weak vote on sthar, it doesn't convey a sense of suspicions, but rather annoyance at sthar answering in other's stead. When sthar answers, Incognito seems to be satisfied with sthar's response as indicated by post addressing Raggin Rabit, yet vote still on sthar.
And this is nothing.SL wrote: 3. A prod within the first 3 pages, wtf.
Incognito, I think you very much resemble scum trying to look busy, what do you think?
Yeah, I was bored with the game.sthar8 wrote:I don't see any waffling that would be indicative of a partner deciding to bus, but Crazy's poorly justified and lately applied vote highlights his other behavior, which is a shining beacon of scumminess.
In his first substantial post, Crazy notes his own inactivity and blames it on a lack of interest in the game so far, which is a weak indicator of scum in my experience so far, since early day 1 is about as boring for scum as you can get. They have no major objective other than avoiding attention and getting closer to night, and since they have no need to create any serious content, their boredom often manifests as indifference and apathy to whatever is going on.
He continues on to express suspicion of four other players, without providing any reasoning on two of them. I cannot think of any reason for both variety and inconsistancy unless he's just looking for an easy wagon. Note that Crazy's vote does go to the wagon that is the largest at this point.
He then encourages us not to worry about boosting scum, expresses unsupported suspicions of two apparently unconnected players, and buddies up to eldarad before signing off.
Was there anything protown about that post?