Mini 690 - Grimmmafia (Game over, the flavor returns...)

[Gorrad]

/comfirm

[Gorrad]

Vote: Fleurdelys

Mod edit
Official Votecount:
Biohazard (1): CoheedCambria09
Fleurdelys (1): Gorrad

Not voting (9): Porkens, SpyreX, dahill1, kloud1516, Biohazard, wolframnhart, mikanoff, fleurdelys, Plum

[Gorrad]

I dislike the newbie card. I'm not sure I've ever seen it played by town. More Fleur votes!

Mod edit
Official Votecount:
Fleurdelys (2): Gorrad, dahill1
Biohazard (1): CoheedCambria09
Porkens (1): fleurdelys
kloud1516 (1): wolframnhart
Gorrad (1): Biohazard
wolframnhart (1): Porkens
SpyreX (1): Plum
Porkens (1): SpyreX
Plum (1): kloud1516

Not voting (1): mikanoff

[Gorrad]

See above post. You're using the newbie card- you're using it BIG TIME. I don't trust it.

[Gorrad]

If she's acting the newbie on purpose, it's to be underestimated by the town, so they'll give her slack if she slips up, and so that she can fly under the radar with newbish posts. I've seen it done before, heck, I've done it before. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that no one goes into a mafia game unprepared- if Fleur is confident enough to join a mini-theme before a newbie game, I'm not cutting her any slack.

[Gorrad]

I saw his name, matched with the flavor, and thought:

When I first appear, I seem mysterious
But when explained, I'm nothing serious

Name the quote anyone?

[Gorrad]

EBWOP: PR, not name

[Gorrad]

When I first appear, I seem mysterious
But when explained, I'm nothing serious

This makes me giggle,
the answer is riddle!

Quite possibly. It, like the flavor, is a quote from 'Into the Woods'.

[Gorrad]

Dude, she was at L-3

[Gorrad]

I have nothing to add that hasn't been said. My vote is solid.

[Gorrad]

Wow, so what, y'all decided to vote me because I had nothing to contribute for all of one post? Sheesh. I've been swamped the last few days and haven't had much chance to post, and when I did I knew I wouldn't have much time to post so I wanted to voice my aproval of the direction the town was taking. Also, when I said Fleur was using the newbie card, she WAS. I stand by that.

For now, though, I'm going to

Unvote

. The amount of completely newbish play from Fleur is overwhelming. When I've seen the newbie card used by scum as a get-out-of-jail-free, it's been to explain an isolated incident- i.e., they get better in the future, it's not the way they act 100% of the time. I'm willing to write off Fleur as very newbish town. This is supported by the mission- given the above statement that I believe Fleur to be a newb, not acting the newb, I don't think she's capable of fakeclaiming that mission. She also wouldn't have put '(town)' in her claim.

[Gorrad]

The key changing point was the mission claim, and there were a good deal of posts between my last two. Also, I misphrased- there, she was acting in a way that made me think she was using the newbie card. If I was in that situation again, I would think so again. However, her later actions made it clear it was not the card, but rather the fact that she is a newb.

The card she was using was not as an excuse yet, but rather the whole 'I assume it's day' right after the day post, etc. Obvious newbie play in a non-newbie game. That just screamed to me that she was trying to play us for saps.

[Gorrad]

In those first two quotes, I still found Fleur to be scummy, so I thought it was the newbie card (Second definiton below). In the third, the context had changed. I said newbie card to mean that she was acting like a newb at the time, not to mean she was scum using the fact that she's a new player to her advantage as I had had used it to mean before. I could have chosen a better way to phrase it, but I didn't, and when questioned I clarified.

[Gorrad]

I don't have missions, it's a spelling mistake.

...I'm going to assume this means something other than what I think it means.

And SpyreX, my role isn't specific either. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a mix.

[Gorrad]

Hey SpyreX, try saying 'Kltpzyxm'.

[Gorrad]

SpyreX, what is the flavor for you turning into a vig? Were you given a reason? Rumplestiltskin in the story isn't a killer. Also, call it a hunch, but I'm having a bit of a hard time imagining Rumplestiltskin to WANT his name said.

[Gorrad]

Read through my games. Unless I have a specific person/case I'm pursuing, I don't post unless I feel I have something to contribute. You call it 'active lurking', I call it not riddling the game with the unneeded fluff that I'd spout if I posted more.

[Gorrad]

Give it time. When someone or something interests me, I'll pursue it like there's no tomorrow until I'm proven wrong. Read Sci-Fi/Fantasy Movie Mafia if you don't believe me.

[Gorrad]

Read through my games. Unless I have a specific person/case I'm pursuing, I don't post unless I feel I have something to contribute. You call it 'active lurking', I call it not riddling the game with the unneeded fluff that I'd spout if I posted more.

No it defiantly is active lurking. There has been ton of content in discussion already in the past 14 pages and you find nothing to discuss or contribute. So basically your tactic is to stay out of discussion and not contribute anything at all in fear of "just putting in unnessary posts" in. Everybodies input in discussion is important and if you feel you can't contribute anything in discussion then ask for replacement and stop hindering discussion

.

Same answer I'm giving you from your last post. So basically when you feel like contributing you'll just come into discussion when someone peaks your interset. There's already been ton of discussion on players and people did ton of suspicous things yet nothing peaked your interset and you'll only contribute when you feel like it? This is scummy and even if you did so in another game the same tactic it's lurking and hindering discussion and if this is how you play then I suggest you may want to change your playstyle.

Incorrect. I was interested in pursuing Fleur, and so I was more active until my mind was changed. Right now I don't have anything that could change someone's mind on Porkens or SpyreX, both of whom I find protown, so I'm not interested in cases on them until a point is made that I object to. As it is, the votes seem based either on OMGUS (Fleur's on SpyreX) or on extremely weak logic/WIFOM that has, I believe, been pointed out already (Why would Porkens intentionally fulfill a nonscum mission as scum?).

As things stand, in fact, I would be most suspicious of you, Bio. You seem to be rather singlemindedly pursuing me on a variety of charges that I find to be somewhat lacking. However, even that's not worth my vote on you.

[Gorrad]

Coheed, i understand, i don't have much time either, i wanted to write something about each user, so because you are not suspicious for me, but at the same time haven't proven enough to be considered pro-town, i just found you in-between.
Gorrad, what you write is not townie for me. If you are town, then why are you protecting two users that the rest of us found suspicous( maybe not spyrex, for only i found him reallly scummy, but definitely porkens), and also, if you are townie, you would want to help us lynch the scum, so you wouldn't be just ignoring the situation. i understant coheen, who simply doesn't have time to be cso active, but you just give this weird excuses which i found scummy
FoS: Gorrad

Because there's no rule that says that what other people believe is true. The fact that there are scum out there intentionally lying compounds that. I disagree with "reasons" given for voting Porkens and SpyreX, so I do not vote them.

[Gorrad]

this is obvious, however, you should try to lynch the scum, don't you think? you need to be active and if you want to show that you're pro-town you need to make us think you're working with us

I do try and lynch scum. I'm just not sure who the scum are yet.

[Gorrad]

I'm not assuming Porkens is town, but a WIFOM case is simply not enough for me to vote him. And please, read through my other games before calling this out as anti-town behavior on my part. If anything, I'm more active as scum because more things are of a direct interest to me. Also, I stated previously that points on me that you have made were BS (215). I jump on things that are scummy and defend myself when pressed. That's how I play the game, and my record supports that. This is far from the first time this 'case' has been made against me.

[Gorrad]

I'm not assuming Porkens is town, but a WIFOM case is simply not enough for me to vote him. And please, read through my other games before calling this out as anti-town behavior on my part. If anything, I'm more active as scum because more things are of a direct interest to me. Also, I stated previously that points on me that you have made were BS (215). I jump on things that are scummy and defend myself when pressed. That's how I play the game, and my record supports that. This is far from the first time this 'case' has been made against me.

Hmm what this. Your not assuming Porkens is town?

anything that could change someone's mind on Porkens or SpyreX,

both of whom I find protown

You contradict yourself way too much Gorrad. I find your changing poistion on statements to just to fit questions on you. Also if your playstyle is to just lurk through discussion and not participate then jump on whatever you find interseting then becoming active when pressured then you seriously need to change your playstyle. Like I said before all input from people in discussion helps and just not participating is going to hinder discussion. I think if you look at it at another perspective you could see why someone might consider this anti-town.

Finding someone to be protown is far from assuming them to be town. Yes, I think it's more likely that he's town then scum, but that doesn't mean I'm assuming a thing. And if you think all discussion helps, you've clearly never played a game with a member of TA.

The way my mind works is...complicated. A lot of how my brain works matches with ADD: I'm easily distracted, tend to focus on only things that interest me, am disorganized, etc. On the other hand, I was raised to be an engineer by my mother's side of the family, so I have extreme focus. The result is that my mind tends to wander until it picks up on something interesting, which it then focusses on, excluding almost all else. I admit, it may not be the ideal way to play mafia, but when I pick up a scent I'm usually right.

In other words, dis my playstyle all you want. It's not something I have any control of- believe me, I've tried. That won't stop me from finding scum in my own way.

[Gorrad]

An example of that is in Hasdgfas' Polygamist Mafia.

[Gorrad]

I kinda bloody well supported that it WAS, in fact, my playstyle. It's like Flameaxe posting once per two weeks- he does it regardless of allignment, so it's not worth a vote.

[Gorrad]

In this game (actually in all my theme games) the scum have safeclaims. Therefore, massclaiming is allowed but not recommended for town.

If she is scum, then she wouldn't have necessarily needed to make it up by herself.

What do y'all think the odds are of the mod including fake mission claims?

[Gorrad]

I don't understand your first post. Finding a person to be pro-town is far from assuming them to town? I'd think that if a person finds a player pro-town then they could assume the player to be town because if all the players found people to be pro-town but had doubts of assuming them town then it would affect the way to scumhunt because they can't lock on in any people if everybody they see isn't town but acts protown. Also wheter I think all discussion helps, yes I do. I'm not sure what TA is but I think at the moment it's irrelivant to the current game at hand. If you believe all discussion doesn't help then state your reasons instead of just trying to fit it to your liking so you can defend your non-participation in discussion.

I assume nothing. I base the fact that I think he's protown on no assumptions, but on logic.

TA stands for Team Asshat, a group that takes delight in taking a game and doing whatever the hell they like regardless of who it effects. They have a page in the wiki. You should look at it.

Frankly, if y'all can't be bothered to even read the other times this exact same case has been made against me (and I assure you, it has), then I see no reason to defend myself further.

Oh, and for the scum that may or may not be pressing me- my role is probably the coolest one I've seen in a long time. However, it has an unexpected upside- if I die, it does hurt town, but it hurts scum almost as much. It's one of those everyone loses scenarios (looses the scenario, not the game or anything). You aren't getting a lick more out of me until my neck is more on the line than this, but scum keep that in mind.

[Gorrad]

I am not assuming anything.

I find it more likely that a pro-town character has to find someone than an anti-town.

I just think that it's better to wait to lynch fleur until we have more information, especially since we have two people that are more suspicious, namely Porkens and Gorrad.

The first and second,
dont line up I reckon.

I disagree, but let's put that aside for a moment. Say you're right- how would that make me any more likely to be scum? That goes for everyone who agrees with him.

[Gorrad]

Unlike Fleur, I know what I'm talking about.

[Gorrad]

You still call me active lurking? You got my attention, I dare say I've been quite active.

[Gorrad]

You still call me active lurking? You got my attention, I dare say I've been quite active.

Gorrad. What's your thoughts on other players?

% is odds town

Biohazard: Pushing against me constantly, on what I believe to be weak grounds. Very tunnel-sighted. 35%.

CC09: Seems pretty clear. Seems to play it safe, but that's not condemning. 75%.

dahill: Same as CC09. 75%.

Fleur: Seems like she really doesn't know what she's doing. I still find it more likely she's been scummy due to newbishness than actually scum. 60%.

kloud: Lurking. 40%

Plum: No read. 50%

Porkens: Call it gut, but I don't think he's WIFOMing. Could be wrong, though. 65%.

Sirdanilot: No read. 50%

SpyreX: I find the odds that the mod gave scum such an easy mission very unlikely. That the mod actually said that he wasn't going to post public mission wins makes me pretty sure he's not faking it. 90%.

Wolframnhart: Seems to be following on the dregs of the Fleur case. Don't really like that. 45%.

Also Gorrad mind elaborating on this?

*Checks wiki* Still don't see how it's relevant to this game. The "group" of people in TA are only certian people who are not in this game so basically you state that they "do whatever they want in discussion" have no correlation in this game at all and that reasoning really doesn't back up your statement about how discussion doesn't always help

.

Nothing to do with this game, just saying that, in the future, you shouldn't deal in the absolute that all discussion helps. It does not.

@Gorrad: Why would you do something (soft claim a role that has "dire" consequences) when we just finished haveing an argument over Fleurs exact same situation. (I know this has been said already but I still want to ask)

I would have claimed as such either way. I don't want to claim my full role, as it becomes difficult to complete my mission when I do. As there's doubtless at least one scum on my wagon, I wanted to discourage them from pursuing it.

[Gorrad]

Y'know what? Screw it. I'm bloody well going to confirm myself and get all this out of the way so y'all can actually focus attention on scum.

I'm the Narrator.

I write the flavor.

If I die, there's not only no flavor, but allignments/roles aren't revealed on death, meaning the town don't know who they've killed and the scum don't know which town power roles they've offed. Please note the twilight rules in the first post. After lynch and after night choices are in, I'm sent who died and I write the flavor.

I breadcrumbed this in the opening scene when I not only quoted 'Into the Woods' (Where the narrator gets pulled into the story) but wrote 'How the story goes is as much up to you as it is to me', as that is true: I write the story according to the town's actions. If y'all don't believe me, I can prove it when I write the night scene.

Now let's lynch scum.

Vote: Biohazard

[Gorrad]

I don't understand your first post. Finding a person to be pro-town is far from assuming them to town? I'd think that if a person finds a player pro-town then they could assume the player to be town because if all the players found people to be pro-town but had doubts of assuming them town then it would affect the way to scumhunt because they can't lock on in any people if everybody they see isn't town but acts protown. Also wheter I think all discussion helps, yes I do. I'm not sure what TA is but I think at the moment it's irrelivant to the current game at hand. If you believe all discussion doesn't help then state your reasons instead of just trying to fit it to your liking so you can defend your non-participation in discussion.

I assume nothing. I base the fact that I think he's protown on no assumptions,

but on logic.

And what logic would this be? I must have missed something during my read through. If you have already provided reasoning, then could you please simply state the post numbers so that I can more easily find the submissions?

Frankly, if y'all can't be bothered to even read the other times this exact same case has been made against me (and I assure you, it has), then I see no reason to defend myself further.

1) This is a great attitude to have.
2) This may be true, but of those other instances, how many of them showed you to indeed be scum? In my opinion, meta can only be a means of defense to a certain extent, as each scenario is going to be a different case (much like tossing a coin).

Oh, and for the scum that may or may not be pressing me- my role is probably the coolest one I've seen in a long time. However, it has an unexpected upside- if I die, it does hurt town, but it hurts scum almost as much. It's one of those everyone loses scenarios (looses the scenario, not the game or anything). You aren't getting a lick more out of me until my neck is more on the line than this, but scum keep that in mind.

Subtle Appeal to Emotion?

Oh, and for the scum that may or may not be pressing me- my role is probably the coolest one I've seen in a long time. However, it has an unexpected upside- if I die, it does hurt town, but it hurts scum almost as much. It's one of those everyone loses scenarios (looses the scenario, not the game or anything).

this is sounding to me a lot like Fleur's "I am valuable to scum and to town" post she did.

same thought popped into my mind

I agree.

Unlike Fleur, I know what I'm talking about.

And this makes you less likely to be scum because? A suspicious action is still going to be suspicious no matter how much experience said player may/may not have. Harping on Fleur's lack of experience isn't going to change that.

kloud: Lurking. 40%

Not lurking, just extremely busy IRL and struggling to stay afloat. I was v/la all of last week, so I hope this adds into your reasoning.

1) That would be the fact that I find it highly unlikely that he is OMGUSing. Scum would not take the risk- consider, he's fulfilling a new game mechanic that so far no one had any idea the results. Who knew what mission completion did? And yet he just went out and did it. That's not a gambit a smart scum would make.

2) In none of them that I can recall was I scum.

3) Aye, scum emotion.

4) It's less scummy because, as I just showed, I can back it up.

5) It helps your case, yes.

Plum, consider- even if I'm lying about my allignment, my role is clear and confirmable, and I'm frankly shocked that you'd be willing to risk keeping me at L-1 considering the consequences should I die.

Unvote, Vote: Plum

. Biohazard, while I still dislike the cases he made, doesn't compare to this.

There, my interest is peaked. Congrats. More Plum votes.

[Gorrad]

I was at L-1, so I claimed. Would you prefer I be lynched?

[Gorrad]

Well, there we go. You chose poorly. This town has played terribly, almost every one of you. If SpyreX is killed and flips scum, so is Porkens. I'd wish you good luck but frankly, all the luck in the world won't help you now.

[Gorrad]

Unvote

Still firmly against Porkens lynch. The wagon on him is one case, and not a very persuasive one at that. I'm actually going to do a reread of Wolf later, I've been getting some bad vibes recently from him.

Heh, I wish I could see the scum's nighttalk tonight. Half of them will want to kill me for my role, the other half will want to keep me alive because of Bio's BS case.

Ah, and I just recalled a previous argument I hadn't responded to, the idea that the Narrator's allignment wouldn't be linked to his role. Consider- in fairy tales, not only does the monster rarely win, but there's always a moral at the end. The Narrator wants the story to be the best it can be, so he works with the town, the protagonists. A mafia role certainly doesn't fit, the Narrator wouldn't want to kill the town, it's not D&D, and a neutral role- Why would you kill that? I suppose it makes a bit of sense, but as stated above, not a neutral killing role.

Something just occured to me. I would like everyone to claim if they are a specific person (Goldilocks, Rapunzel, etc.) or an archeotype (the prince, the dragon, etc.). Don't claim your roles, just which of the two your role falls under. I want to see something.

[Gorrad]

If I miss any questions, let me know.

Porkens is scum if SpyreX is because of the total willingness to fulfill the mission. I doubt that scum have such an easily fulfillable mission, but if they do then that would explain not only the speed at which it was done, but also how he knew it was Rumplestiltzken. I know I didn't get that from just rhymes.

The, as y'all so roughly put it, mass claim is a good idea because, frankly, I'm starting to doubt SpyreX's role. So far we've had 'The Narrator', 'The Prince', and 'Rumplestiltzken'. Which of these stands out to you? I don't think anything is lost if we claim whether we're a specific or an archeotype, and I'm suspicious enough (especially given the reaction to my claim) that I'd like this tested. I'd be fairly unsurprised at this point if he and Porkens have staged this whole thing.

As far as I know, I don't have the ability to alter the way in which the deaths are reported (Killed by...), just the flavor surrounding them.

My mission is to entertain y'all. If I get three compliments on a piece of flavor, it's fulfilled.

I claimed the no-reveal part of my role completely knowing the consequences, and trust me, I know what I'm doing.

[Gorrad]

I just double checked my PM, and it says (I'm going to try to avoid quoting here) that the mod is going to send me what needs to be in the flavor, and I go from there. I'm taking that to mean that he sends me 'Player one- Killed by moose d9' or the like, and I just create the buildup.

[Gorrad]

Sorry for the double, but Sirdanilot, what third party could I possibly fit?

[Gorrad]

I understand, Sirdanilot, and it doesn't matter to me if you think I'm third party or town, provided I live and you realise that I'm working to help the town.

[Gorrad]

The risk of safe claim can be abolished as soon as the next flavor post is made.

[Gorrad]

First of all, I AM town alligned. But consider- it has already agreed that I cannot kill. I see no plausable way for anyone to think I'm jester, lyncher, or cult. That leaves, unless I'm very mistaken, survivor. In which case I help the town not only because if I don't my neck is on the line, but also because I'm generally a nice guy, and a town victory makes more people happy.

[Gorrad]

Sorry for the double post. Wanted to remind everyone that deadline's a week away, and to say that I've seen oily swiss cheese less slippery and full of holes than sirdanilot.

[Gorrad]

First of all, I AM town alligned. But consider- it has already agreed that I cannot kill. I see no plausable way for anyone to think I'm jester, lyncher, or cult. That leaves, unless I'm very mistaken, survivor. In which case I help the town not only because if I don't my neck is on the line, but also because I'm generally a nice guy, and a town victory makes more people happy.

psst..you forgot SK!
it has definitely NOT been agreed that you cannot kill. when did someone say that?

494. I've also made several cases on why it would make no sense whatsoever for a narrator to have a killing role which no one has refuted.

[Gorrad]

I repeat once more that I can bloody well PROVE I'm not fakeclaiming. And how in the nine rings does that flavor fit that my mission is to entertain?

[Gorrad]

I see no reason to let that knowledge out right now, not unless you're going to use it to change something.

[Gorrad]

But a massclaim you encourage

This is a gross misrepresentation.

Sirdanilot, I stand by that. You're wishy-washy as hell, won't even let me bloody well confirm myself when I've stated precisely when and how I can do so as well as what happens when I die, hell, you said pretty much the trademark scum phrase in 504. You want to lynch me despite thinking that I can't kill which means, as I said, that the only non-townie role that would make any sense whatsoever for me is survivor. And guess what, the OMGUS ain't helpin'.

[Gorrad]

But a massclaim you encourage

This is a gross misrepresentation.

...this doesnt make sense. Gorrad, its not a "gross misrepresentation" because you have said, on two different occasions (i believe) that it would be best for everyone to claim their role types (not abilities/missions).

Next, I don't like how Fleur was pretty much willing to go along with the previously stated "mass claim" idea. We all know that "Pie is Good" in this game and a day one mass claim will do nothing to help the town because scum have fake claims.

And to follow that

The risk of safe claim can be abolished as soon as the next flavor post is made.

How? simple question.

It's a misrepresentation because a mass claim has with it, especially given the mod's first post, strong negative connotations. I asked for one small part of the claim that could not even theoretically help anyone but town. I did not ask for flavor, for abilities, for missions, nothing. I asked for one small thing and everyone freaks out like it's the end of the world. How about someone actually come up with a reason why what I requested would be BAD, then you can use it as a scumtell.

And I can prove it's not a safeclaim by bloody well using my ability. Unless you can think of a single person in Grimm stories that broke the fourth wall other than the narrator (who doesn't count), then my ability proves my role. It doesn't prove my allignment, I'll admit, but a proven role means y'all can at least accept the unlikelyhood of said role being anti-town.

[Gorrad]

Plum- I'm very busy, so I cannot garuntee I can give this the attention it deserves soon. I've got a lot of last-minute paperwork to fill for my Eagle project, and will get to it as soon as I have free time. That could be later today, that could be up to thursday, at this point I can't tell.

[Gorrad]

I'd like to briefly make the case on Gorrad as I see it, i.e. without points that I don't think are valid, though some may:

1. Accused Fleur of using the newbie card early in the game when she had not. Called for more votes on her with no other reasoning than her newbishness; not scumtells, just acting like a newbie. Does anyone else agree that in the absence of other scumtells or using a real newb card as an excuse when one's back is against the wall, newbish play from someone new to the site is a null tell?

2. Unvoted when the bandwagon lost steam after Fleur's claim. Said that the amount of newb play from her was overwhelming enough that he thought she was a legit newbie.

3. Claims he misphrased the bit about the newb card after multiple posts explicitly accusing Fleur of using it.

4. Actively lurked for about four days (without posting).

5. Extensive defense of point four stating that it's his meta. As has been discussed, unhelpful response to unhelpful behavior. Distracting behavior here as well, e.g. talking about Team Asshat and saying not all discussion helps. Not really relevant (not to mention that in theory all discussion should help and unhelpful discussion should prompt questions and slightly hightened suspicion).

6. (Claimed his role, outing his powers to the scum. He seemed to think he was at L-1 at the time, though, so I'm not entirely sure what to make of it). Placed an OMGUS-y vote on Biohazard for 'tunnel-vision', despite Bio having had his vote on Porkens for the past few pages; in addition, Bio's questions and arguments against him seemed valid and relevent, though I speak for myself there. (Quick unvote and vote on me for not unvoting him. He thought he was at L-1 etc., though, so again not sure what to make of it).

7. Call for mass archetype-or-specific claim. Granted I don't see how much info we'd be giving scum, though others seem to, but the basis is an idea that would be a stupid, in my humble opinion, attempt at outguessing the mod.

8. WIFOMy claim about helping the town if he's third-party, something I don't buy. I see survivor or possibly SK if he's third party, nothing that guarantees pro-town play at all, and no good reason to trust any third party character, regardless of powers. Baseless talk about confirmed lack of killing powers (no confirmation there), more baseless argument that flavor wouldn't dictate it. Flavor-based arguments = trying to outguess the mod, generally unhelpful. It's been stated by our gracious mod that missions and mission bonuses may or may not be in line with flavor, and we've already seen SpyreX claim a character who was ambiguous at best (though no concrete confirmation on him yet); to conclude, flavor-based reasoning by Gorrad was unhelpful and unconvincing.

1. I expect someone in a non-newbie game to not act like a newbie, and I'm suspicious when they do. Join date is not always a factor, due to prior experience or alts.

2. Yes. I changed my mind when everyone else did, for pretty much the same reasons.

3. I did. I'm sorry.

4. Seriously? Look at Sci-fi/Fantasy movie mafia. Look at my d1 post times. I do this ALL THE TIME d1. I'm just not into the game enough to be active.

5. And if ANYONE would bother looking, y'all'd see it IS how I play.

6. I had good reasons to claim my role- I was L-1. Gods. Ok. I REALLY didn't want to post this. I had reason to claim fully- I've got 1-shot NK immunity to help prevent my death. I figured at the very least I could waste a scum NK if I survived. Now it's out. Thanks, bandwagoners. Where bio's vote was doesn't stop the fact that all his posts were dealing with me.

7. Ok, you think it's stupid. Fine. How would it hurt the town or in any way make me scum?

8. I can back this up- in Pikmin mafia, I was one of two scum groups and knew who was in the other. I was outted, and had the choice of choosing who would win between the town and scum. I chose the town because they had more people who would benefit from it. Of course, then I realised I COULD win by teaming with the other scum, but that's hardly the point.

One other thing I should note- I checked my role PM to see if I could write my own death flavor, and it said my allignment wouldn't be revealed on death, just my role. AND that I don't get to write my own flavor.

Realise what y'all are doing. Y'all are, at best, getting rid of an SK. At worst, you're not going to get anyone's allignment for the rest of the game and you won't get anything from my lynch. Think about it.

[Gorrad]

It's. Called. LOGIC.

[Gorrad]

You guessed poorly. Every one of y'all should be ashamed. Seriously, the case was BS, and y'all have now managed to pretty much lose the game AND stop me from playing one of, if not THE coolest role I've seen on this site. So hey, good luck! You'll need it.