Mini 671 - Dwarf Fortress - Game Over!

[sekinj]

Hey guys! I'm replacing Verbal who made exactly 2 posts... a lot to live up too there.

Anyway, I'm going to dive right in.
I've read through and I currently find iLord most suspicious. He has had plenty of reasonable

looking

discussions, but his only reason for suspecting Tub was that tub was trying to end the discussion phase. Ramus metioned trying to do the same thing, yet IL didn't suspect him. and then I don't like IL's subsequent trouble with the difference between "joking" and "eager"
Also, IL tried hard to be the peacemaker between CB and Time. Then near the end he says he supports the hammer on CC, but after the CC hammer tries to comfort the town by saying it was reasonable. He also acts innocent by throwing out his suspect "just in case he gets NK'd"
I think all of that is him trying too hard to be townie. IL's exlaination is that "trying to end the random phase isn't scummy, but using it as an excuse to do whatever is" I really didn't see Tub "doing whatever" but rather placing a semi-random vote and then disucssing it.

[sekinj]

@time: I thought the same thing. However, the fact that you are the first one to bring it up does not sit well with me.


RE: IL - I find his play too choreographed. Also, I wouldn't have noticed the tub/IL disagreement except that IL attacked tub for things that other poeple were doing as well. However - as a replacement I may have mis-read the mood of the game as often happens. I've seen replacements many times bring up things that the rest of the town feels have been over-discussed. That is why I wantd to get people's input before adding a fos or vote. If IL is not scum, then I think some of the less active players may bear some closer attention.

[sekinj]

Oh good lord, it's sekinj! *dives for cover*

This game is not going to end well.

hello to you too reborn don't worry, I thought your posts looked scummy too, but then I remember that other game...

[sekinj]

I do not like Time's play at all. I will be the first to admit it may just be personality differences, but it is a good chance that many of the people he is talking to, calling dense, dodging questions from are town. I'm not 100% convinced Time is scum, but I have to be honest and admit that regardless the game woudl be better without him. We don't need town OR scum players that are detremental to the town. Time's play has been damaging all along. If Bob had not been NK'd Time would no doubt be leading the lynch against him. Time's playstyle and scumdar (or lack thereof) are not going to help us this game

vote: Timeater

If you need proof of Time's irrational and lashing out behavior, just watch how he reacts to this post.

[sekinj]

@time: how did I know you would bring that up as soon as I suspected you? however, I'm not goign to discuss an ongoing game. for all you know there were/are other things going on in that game. Many other players here are either in other games with me or have played with me before so they can judge my "hysteria" for themselves.

[sekinj]

Need I even re-quote myself?

If you need proof of Time's irrational and lashing out behavior, just watch how he reacts to this post.

[sekinj]

@sekinj - Why do I always see a pig nose when I look at your avatar instead of a cat? Also, I know this is redundant, but why iLord? And do you really believing lynching a townie is good for the game if said townie being useless or worse?

I'm for lynching anyone who is helping scum, even if their role PM says, "town". I beleive time's current antics are more help to the scum than the town.

and ahhh... well, my avatar is designed so that when people look at it the first thing they see is their deepest darkest fear, and then it resolves into my fluffy baby kitty cat... I guess you are scared of piggies...

[sekinj]

@Ramus: and... I already explained my suspicion on IL... don't ask me to spell choreographed again

[sekinj]

Sekinj - yes, you were asking for it. If it turns out you were actually scum in that game and there are some extinuating circumstances, I will gladly take back what I've implied about you.

or you could just leave that game where it belongs... in it's own thread.

[sekinj]

re-quoting for Ramus. If this doesn't answer your question, please be more specific.

RE: IL - I find his play too choreographed. Also, I wouldn't have noticed the tub/IL disagreement except that IL attacked tub for things that other poeple were doing as well. However - as a replacement I may have mis-read the mood of the game as often happens. I've seen replacements many times bring up things that the rest of the town feels have been over-discussed. That is why I wantd to get people's input before adding a fos or vote. If IL is not scum, then I think some of the less active players may bear some closer attention.

[sekinj]

I have some evidence about that game as well, since I was a part of it, however, as it is STILL ONGOING.... well, I think that's all i need to say.

[sekinj]

This post is really scummy - advocating Tim's lynch even though he's town because he is harming the town?

How is he harming the town?

starting flame wars, lashing out at everyone, including insults in almost every reply to a case against him... What better distraction do scum need?

How do you know his scumdar is useless?

Becuase he himself said that he would be going full tilt after cyberbob today if CB hadn't been NK'd.

Even if it was useless, shouldn't we be using lynches on people were pretty sure are scum?

idealy, yes. However, I think it's also important to limit distractions so that the town can win. If I can see a better case against someone else, or some scum makes a blunder, I will be more than happy to switch my vote to someone I am more sure is scum. Right now I have my vote on my top suspect.

Like you?

FOS: Sekinj

IL- if you had a case I could respond to it... but apparently you don't... do you at least have a reason?

[sekinj]

So roffman, do you agree with me about Sekinj?

What is there to agree with again? You don't like my case against you or you don't like my case against time?

pretty interesting that the only two people voting me are the people I made cases against. Sounds like you both have a lot to go on.

[sekinj]

i agree with ilord that there is a case against sekinj, though i'm not really sure of the strength of it. I believe though that your wanting to lynch timeater even though he might be town to eliminate distractions is not necessarily a scummy action.

It's depressing that i'm 90% sure timeater is town, i still want to lynch him as scum.

this doesn't make sense. You don't think lynching time because he is a distraction is scummy, however, you think there IS a case against me?? that is the entirety of IL's case... so you think there is a case out there against me, but the one IL is spouting isn't it? please enlighten.

[sekinj]

I didn't see IL's post before I posted mine. same idea. both Roff and Ramus seem like they'd sure liek to lynch me but they aren't sure why...

[sekinj]

I'm not sure what the case is, i just have a gut feeling that something about you is not right. I'll go through later and see if there is anything to it, or just my imagination.

great thanks, that just makes me feel warm and fuzzy, please don't go to any trouble on my account. just throw accusations around and do nothing to back them up.

[sekinj]

I'm not sure what the case is, i just have a gut feeling that something about you is not right. I'll go through later and see if there is anything to it, or just my imagination.

As for lynching tim, he's play is highly distracting to town, and just keeps on triggering my scumdar.

I'm waiting to see what roff's follow up to this is. I'm just about ready to leave time alone and go after roff for his blatant scumziness.

[sekinj]

I don't like this wagon. But the information accrued from Roffman's lynch if he turns town with all these opportunistic votes on him will be very interesting. Still, the need for Day 1 discussion is such that I am not willing to vote yet.

You are just saying 'wagon' so that it will look bad. What do you have to say about Roff's actual posts?

[sekinj]

@KoC - i don't think anyone knew that would happen... I was very shocked myself, so I can't really be upset with anyone for putting him at L-1. Obviously, each person who voted him contributed. He apparently just wasn't putting much thought into this game, though, so that made him seem very scummy.

[sekinj]

@KoC - oh, and I just realized it was you who put him at L-1... but meh, any of us could have done it.

[sekinj]

@pesco, no, I don't know what caused the hammer.

This is why i hate being one of the first people to say anything on a new day. no matter what is said everyone jumps on it.

and (yes this is wifom, but still valid) why wouldn't I just continue to push my iLord case and nk someone unrelated? this pop up vote is making me suspect you of trying to start an easy wagon. notice you didn't bring up the fact that iLord was suspecting you yesterday and the day before as well.

[sekinj]

I let him go.

Is that a soft claim for saying that YOU nk'd him???

that's how ridiculous your vote on me is.

[sekinj]

I thought KOC was just kidding by calling himself a 'tard...

[sekinj]

I'll claim. I can't see any harm in it except that maybe scum's targets will change at night, but we are down so much that I think it will do more good than harm...

[sekinj]

I am Lolor Alathum who is a Siege Engineer. That is vanilla townie because I win when the threats to Oslavanthez are gone and I have no powers.

Vote: Pesco

for hopping wagons, desperately trying to avoid a mass claim, and being generally scummy.

[sekinj]

I choose pesco to claim next.

[sekinj]

Don't wet your pants when I do.

... why woudl we wet our pants? because you are scum and we shoudl be scared?

and speaking of clothing: Keep your shirt on regarding my case against you, i'm still working on it, but will post it later tonight.

[sekinj]

FoS: anderson

for fosing everyone.

Not really, I've just never seen that many in one place before...

unfos

[sekinj]

@Pesco and Anderson: Is this question you want reborn to answer?

What policy makes it so definite that we need to drop everything and start giving scum more info?

Just clarifying becasue I thought he had already answered that question...

I'd liek to get on with the mass claim, so please be more specific if there is a question reborn needs to answer first.

[sekinj]

Pesco's interesting posts. I've added the comments in italics. everything directly quoted is contained in " ". otherwise it is paraphrased. Many of those posts I have cut down to just show the voting/fosing pattern.

P1 - random vote tub

(1)

p2 - "It's too early to be pulling pictures like those. But I don't think Ramus was being serious anyway with no follow-up FoS or vote."
p3 - "I could say you're scum because you're not a newb and pushing for faulty logic. FoS reborn

(2)

, upgradable to a vote once Tuber clears up the OMGUS. "
p4 - "My vote on Tuber is still from random voting. Need some more discussion before I confirm or move."

I'm counting the random vote becuase this shows that although it was supposedly random pescp was suspicious of tub by this point, so that at least turned it from a random vote into a serious FoS in theory.

p5 - "Unvote, FoS Timeater"

(3)

for lack of serious post
p6 - "Vote Timeater FoS Cyber"

(4)

p9 - "FoS CoCam"

(5)

p10 - "FoS Roffman"

(6)

p14 - "Something is not quite right here."

-maybe I haven't been around enough, but I have really only ever seen scum say this...

p15 - "Unvote, Vote CoCam"

(7)

p15 -

then lynch...

If there's a pro-town day-vig out there, please fire for this.

- blatant role fishing. CoCam was already on the chopping block, why woudl a day-vig risk exposure for this?

p17 - "But being a kobold certainly makes you anti-dwarves by flavour.

passive aggressively pushing CoCam's lynch

p18 - "Feling the same vibe as everyone before me on this one. FoS Tim"

(8)

p22 - "If it weren't for this, I'd have voted Tim again in agreeance with Sekinj. Roffman is doing more IioA compared to Tim's plain anti-town behaviour. Vote Roffman"

(9)

-why is does he state that he agrees with me near the end of yesterday, yet the first thing he did today was vote me? It doesn't fit

p23 - "One cook flipping vanilla is not going to clear anyone else"

-trying to keep time on the lynch line for tomorrow since he knows Roff will flip town

p26 - "Meta is no justification for scummy actions. FoS Reborn"

(10)

p31 - "In all, I think Sekinj did the hammer or called the NK. I'm doubting the likelyhood of doing both because that places quite a lot of power in one player's hands. Vote Sekinj"

(11)

p34 - "It was a personal opinion that compelled me to vote Sekinj at the time, pretty much intuition based. The most outstanding point is where she calls iLord for 'Too Townie'."

-feels like backtracking. at the time of his vote he stated that I was the hammerer (with nothing to back it up), and now that other players are questioning him he backtracks to say that it was just "intuition" and calling IL too townie, which he never mentioned when voting me.

p35 - "Can we all agree that Roffman wasn't town aligned then?"

-trying tto steer the town into a misconception. How could Roff be town-aligned if scum executed the hammer? Pesco already accused me of doign the hammer, so I know he had thought about it at this point. Why now is he trying to say Roff was anti-town?

p40 - "Unvote, Vote Reborn"

(12)

Pesco FoS's or votes on average every 3rd post. He has FoS'd or voted 7 of the 12 players, in fact there are only 2 players alive that he has not Fos'd... I'd say that was a pretty large spread of supicion. It looks like he is just throwing out a wide net to see where a case will stick. I even looked for meta evidence that this is how he usually plays... but in the few others games he has been in i couldn't find support for that theory... so my vote stands.

[sekinj]

Looking for meta to justify a play style fails because it can't be proven. I've condemned using meta to clear a person and I've been true to what I say because I haven't used meta to call a person scummy either. I treat every player as a stranger and base my arguments on how they're playing in the relevant game.

I, however, believe meta is valuable, but not gospel. I simply did that research and included it in order to be thorough. If you always FoS'd every other player I wouldn't think my case holds water... however, you haven't done that in past games. It is valuable to be able to judge a person's playstyle, if possible, in order to try to get a read on someone.

[sekinj]

Edem Ekastkeskal, Engraver. No ability but I am very upset about my blood-spattered work.

KoC, you're up.

I thought you said you were special and so couldn't claim first... now you are saying your vanilla?

[sekinj]

Me claiming first will help the scum substantially. I say we vote on who goes first, and then go popcorn.

How would a vanilla claim help the scum more than pushing others to reveal what may be power roles?

I think you have slipped reborn. I will be looking at all of your posts in isolation in the very near future...

[sekinj]

@reborn: please answer this.

Me claiming first will help the scum substantially. I say we vote on who goes first, and then go popcorn.

How would a vanilla claim help the scum more than pushing others to reveal what may be power roles?

I think you have slipped reborn. I will be looking at all of your posts in isolation in the very near future...

[sekinj]

I'd be willing to switch over to a KoC lynch. I didn't like his "icky" comment at all. Plus the whole flipflopping on the mass claim was bad.

I still rather lynch pesco than let him make it to end game though. he's not town.

[sekinj]

@anderson - wow... that's pretty cool. I've never heard of that...

[sekinj]

@anderson - but it's not hard to figure out who it is though....

[sekinj]

@reborn - nice move...afterall the only way to avoid a later wagon on you is to turn the current one into a bus.

[sekinj]

I don't put any stock in anything Pesco is saying. Anderson has been one of my strongest town reads the whole game, and his mason role fits. It even fits with Claus giving rather strange, but not too powerful roles.

Since Pesco is a third party, I dont' think he is important as our lynch for today. However, I absolutely do not trust him, and will read everything he says as white noise. I beleive he has his own agenda. I'd like to lynch him after we have a few scum under our belt.

unvote

I think KoC and reborn are our scum.

[sekinj]

@reborn - you are my suspect because you pushed everyone to claim, while refusing to claim yourself. you said that the scum would have valuable information after you claimed, yet you let me and other vanilla's go ahead and claim then you say you are just vanilla yourself. That is horse shit. You were fishing for roles so that you felt safe saying your name and profession while claiming it was vanilla.

[sekinj]

@reborn - you are my suspect because you pushed everyone to claim, while refusing to claim yourself.

I absolutely did not refuse to claim. Like seriously, nice misrepresentation, bordering on out-right falsehood.

You DID refuse to claim first. You PUSHED others to claim first and REFUSED to do it yourself.

[sekinj]

Me claiming first will help the scum substantially. I say we vote on who goes first, and then go popcorn.

[sekinj]

And the same in context:

It's day 3, in a mini. We've already lost 3 town. We're nearing LYLO whether we like it or not. It's mass claim time.

If memory serves right, you haven't claimed yet, have you? How about the person who suggests it does it first? Otherwise I'll have to assume this is scum fishing or some other tactic to get town to lynch another townie.

Me claiming first will help the scum substantially. I say we vote on who goes first, and then go popcorn.

I vote for Pesco.

@reborn - tell me again how I am misrepresenting you??

[sekinj]

Me claiming first will help the scum substantially. I say we vote on who goes first, and then go popcorn.

That is not refusing to claim first. It is suggesting that we vote on who goes first.

If I recall right, you voted for Pesco to go first.

No, I had the balls to actually claim first, unlike you.

[sekinj]

EBWOP: you recall wrong. I voted Pesco to go second, AFTER I already claimed.

[sekinj]

@reborn - nice move...afterall the only way to avoid a later wagon on you is to turn the current one into a bus.

I don't quite understand this statement. Are you saying that there might be a wagon on reborn today? And what's your definition of a "bus"?

I'm saying reborn is bussing KoC in order to save his own skin tomorrow.

I'm sore about reborn's refusal to claim first, and forcing others, who could have been town power roles to claim before revealing that he himself is a lowly vanilla. I think that is scummy up the wazzoo.

[sekinj]

@ Sekinj: How are you determining Andersonw as your strongest town read?

he has just seems reasonable and balanced throughout most of the game. other people have had fits of fury, unexplained slips, or admit to being third party. I can't point you to a post or anything. it's vibes man, just vibes.

[sekinj]

but will the anon-hamma activate if we are lynching scum?

[sekinj]

well, we'd better hurry up and discourse before the ghost hammer comes...

[sekinj]

well, I'll hammer if we are done discussing...

[sekinj]

i'll wait then... no harm in it..

[sekinj]

wow, thanks reborn. or I'm just acting town. wifom central.

[sekinj]

So, in your world, I am "confirmed town" based on thinking KoC is town and I didn't hammer him?? and your vote is on KoC atm?? Why are you voting someone you think is town?

You don't think that maybe some other scum will hammer KoC if he is town here in a few minutes?? If you think KoC is town UNVOTE!! Your logic is all screwed up.

[sekinj]

@anderson - I think you'd better say it. Frankly, I'm not going to beleive you if you point to someone who has already been confirmed by death.

[sekinj]

Looks like we've got a deal with the devil... I believe Pesco, and I think we should all "real" claim.

However, I really am vanilla townie...

[sekinj]

I choose town win....

I'm a Seige Engineer with no power... Wait, didn't I already say this?


some on guys! at least play, don't just sit on your hands.

[sekinj]

Vote: scum

there... that should do it...

[sekinj]

I think people are being silly. Why not take pesco at his word for now and try to get the other scum today? Then we can try to get rid of pesco tomorrow (if there is one).

[sekinj]

like crying?

[sekinj]

well, I was starting to suspect tub and ramus for how they ganged up on you and seemed to want you dead, no matter if that wasn't a smart move for town.

but then anderson came in and did almost the same thing...

at this point I think I'm liking Ramus and Time for being our scum.

[sekinj]

Nah, I've got a lot more than just that image at my disposal. Don't worry, you'll see plenty more.

Ramus - why haven't we seen the plenty more pics you promised?

[sekinj]

i think pesco is scum and should die. but if there are two scum, I don't see the harm in killing the other one today, and pesco tommorrow. however, I can also see going with a pesco lynch today if we can't find anythign as convincing on someone else.

[sekinj]

@pes - I was just answering someone's question. settle.

[sekinj]

WE NEED TIM BACK BEFORE WE CAN MAKE ANY MORE PROGRESS!!!!

I won't be posting again until after tim or his replacement post.

[sekinj]

Yay!

[sekinj]

wow. I'd say that was some progress. Looks liek it does help out to know about the game.

Vote: Tub

[sekinj]

I think tub and Ramus are our scum. they team up together quite a bit.

[sekinj]

I think pes is the SKum, and ramus and tub are the scum. that's not jumping around or flip-flopping. I've suspected Ramu for a while, and then Tub has been teaming up with him quite a bit lately.

[sekinj]

Vote: Pesco

[sekinj]

SKum can win
scum can win
but at this point town can't win anyway. I think only me and anderson are the only town left.

If we lynch ram today, then peso NKs either anderson or I, SK wins.
If we lynch pesco today, then ram NKs either anderson or I, scum wins.
If we lynch anderson today, ram nk's me, pesco nk's ram... pesco wins.

I don't see how town can win in any case... since I'm 100% sure on pesco, and only 85% sure on ram, I would rather lynch pesco and let ram win.

[sekinj]

we definitly only have two townies left, so it is just not possible for us to kill both scum.

[sekinj]

I dont' think you should be rewarded for being found out.

[sekinj]

that's just retarded. If ramus and anderson claim town then I am obv scum? what? becuase I'm voting for the person we know is SK? it's not like there is tons to deliberate right now.

1) I don't trust you
2) with one townie left, and one SK left, the SK still wins... that's just how it works, no matter what you offer


My choices are scum or SK to win. I'd rather let scum win because they have played a better game. You have been found out, and therefore should be lynched forthwith.

However, I know you want to get a townie lynched, so you will paint this as scummy as possible. If you can get a townie lynched, then you win.

[sekinj]

I dont' think you should be rewarded for being found out.

Nobody 'found me out'. I claimed SK loud and clear.

but what forced you to claim? regardless, I dont' think you should be rewarded for claiming.

[sekinj]

See #1 above.

[sekinj]

exactly.

[sekinj]

If we lynch scum today, there is no way you would bypass your night kill. Unless, you weapon really is stolen, and you are nkless.... *hmmm*

*thinks about being an asshole*

[sekinj]

unvote

Anderson - if you agree that ramus is the scum, and pesco has no night powers.... Do you want to lynch ram instead?

@ram - Why didn't you say, "you're wrong, I'm not scum" instead of just agreeing to vote for pesco?

Vote: Ramus

[sekinj]

I'm not scum...

[sekinj]

thirded

what say you anderson?

[sekinj]

unvote, vote: Ramus

in case I hadn't done that already....

[sekinj]

you're not dead yet, ramus. Pesco still has to switch his vote over. Nice to see you're ready to give up already though...

[sekinj]

It would have had the same outcome if anderson and I had lynched pesco. Town was screwed either way.